I love how everyone compares EVERY new game to WoW. Sure I'm guilty - I played it and put up with all the 12 year old l33t noobehs who would leave an instance group promptly at 10pm because it was their bedtime even though we were 2 rooms away from the High Priestess in SM. But why must every new game be compared to WoW?
The answer - because it seems every new game is trying to BE WoW.
Sure, 7 million subs can't be wrong. And it has a long-running sequel behind it. But examine the facts for a moment.
Take a look at the new games coming out. Nearly all of them reside in the same genre as WoW - the fantasy Orc/Priest/Elf grind-till-I-cancel-my-sub-in-frustration MMO. What happened to genres like Sci-Fi and historical? Neocron2 is one of the best MMO's I have ever played. The customer services blows, the graphics are outdated, the game is STILL buggy after years of patching, but it's the genre that kept me coming back to that game. The gritty Sci-Fi feel and the concept of the game make it a grain of salt in the pepper shaker that is the MMO world today. I'm not saying it's the best game of all time, but it's different, and variety is the spice of life IMHO.
I love how everyone compares EVERY new game to WoW. Sure I'm guilty - I played it and put up with all the 12 year old l33t noobehs who would leave an instance group promptly at 10pm because it was their bedtime even though we were 2 rooms away from the High Priestess in SM. But why must every new game be compared to WoW?
The answer - because it seems every new game is trying to BE WoW.
Sure, 7 million subs can't be wrong. And it has a long-running sequel behind it. But examine the facts for a moment.
Take a look at the new games coming out. Nearly all of them reside in the same genre as WoW - the fantasy Orc/Priest/Elf grind-till-I-cancel-my-sub-in-frustration MMO. What happened to genres like Sci-Fi and historical? Neocron2 is one of the best MMO's I have ever played. The customer services blows, the graphics are outdated, the game is STILL buggy after years of patching, but it's the genre that kept me coming back to that game. The gritty Sci-Fi feel and the concept of the game make it a grain of salt in the pepper shaker that is the MMO world today. I'm not saying it's the best game of all time, but it's different, and variety is the spice of life IMHO.
It's times like these that I wish I was a dev.
I agree here and so do alot of other MMOers. Devs have this fantasy tunnel vision. I guess they think we are all idiots and can't understand anything but Fantasy, although most other gaming genres hardly have that much in fantasy at all. The best shooters/RTS/Adventure games are not fantasy. In fact there are very few fantasy games outside of MMO's right now. Other genres know MMO devs are beating it to death.
I'll tell what NEEDS to be an MMO...Star Wars Lego I or II !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me and my kids can play that game to death lol.
That or a totally original title with several Alien races, vehicles, spaceships, rich universe, explorable planets with no one on them but creepy places and monsters, settled planets to hang out on, trade routes, pirates, weird alien invaders (think Aliens), ground vehicle chases through crowded cities (a la the Fifth Element) strange artifacts and places, twisted dark plots to take over the galaxy.....mwhahaha...I wish I was an MMO producer We would be having some fun. Instead I guess we get more swords/spells/elves and dwarves and rat killing.
I decided to try out WoW again to see if anything changed and I played alone from 1-60, on a new server, playing only a few hours ever day or so and reached 60 in about a month. My total playing time was a little over 7 days.
Things that drive me crazy about WoW
Lack of skills (You have about 12 skills, but they hide this fact by making you pay for a new rank every other level. The expansion has introduced make 4-5 new skills per class.)
The same old bugs continue to plague us since release
For something that is so "polished" why can't they make gnomes sit on mounts without their legs going through the animals body, or why does my sideburns go through every helmet I wear? It's these little things that makes the game not so polished.
If you're not lvl x5-x9 you are rediculued in pvp because you are basically useless. A lvl 20 player has no chance against a level 29 player. This is a flawed system that really needs to be changed.
3. WoW has ruined MMO's due to the WoW factor. It took someone like Blizzard who has their shit together to show up this industry. Before WoW all we had to measure ourselves on was the next SOE Expansion that wasn't ready for release. Funny how Blizzard is the only game manufacturer out there that actually waited till their game is ready for release before asking their players to pay for it. (EQ2, Vanguard anyone?). It burns my ass to see games that aren't done get released - should be illegal.
you're soooooo wrong. for more than the 1st year of WoW, all their patches did was revamp talent trees and balance classes. I can't believe you call that "ready".
id like for someone to explain the "dumbed down factor" because i dont really think it exists really. whats dumbed down exactly? give examples. The game plays exactly like everquest did.
ive played both games extensively.
does a game require exp loss to be considered not dumbed down? Does it have to require massive level grinds?
whats the criteria?
Alright, here we go i'll keep it VERY short, and let you follow up on looking into the games
game w/ flaws, but not dumbed down - Pre-CU SWG
Dumbed down - Post CU SWG
Worse than WoW dumb - Post NGE SWG
that's also in chronilogical order, CU came b4 NGE.
WoW is easy and fun from level 1 to 60(I don't know if its fun from 60-70). Unfortunately, WoW's endgame is one huge timesink that is not fun.
People just use the term "dumbed down" to make themselves feel smarter. No different from kids taunting other kids to make themselves feel better.
You don't need to be smart to play any game. EQ, SWG, or anything. Its all the same. Just kill stuff and level up. Nothing too hard about that. I've met many idiots in every MMO I've played. They somehow made it to max level. All it takes is time, not smarts.
WoW is easy and fun from level 1 to 60(I don't know if its fun from 60-70). Unfortunately, WoW's endgame is one huge timesink that is not fun.
People just use the term "dumbed down" to make themselves feel smarter. No different from kids taunting other kids to make themselves feel better.
You don't need to be smart to play any game. EQ, SWG, or anything. Its all the same. Just kill stuff and level up. Nothing too hard about that. I've met many idiots in every MMO I've played. They somehow made it to max level. All it takes is time, not smarts.
you're defining it wrong, it doesn't imply the players who play it are stupid, or even the methods of leveling in the game is simple.
it implies that there is more then 1 system in the game, that is innovative, or complex, and integrates/depends on many other aspects of the game
Such an example of this actually IS found in WoW, and that's the talent system. balancing all of those talents creates a system that's not dumbedd down, at least in many cases (see when i used to play, healers were pigeon holed)
in SWG, only ONE example would be the BF/wound/decay system, which was taken away post NGE. it used to be that each class was interdependent on the others, voila---a MASSIVLEYMO
isnt it great that anyone can post his/ her/ it's opinion? after all when it comes right down to it you can flap your pie hole all day and try to quantify your observations verse someone elses to try and get in that one upmanship. the thing that detracts from opinions are when they become opinonated, trying to support your belief, with threats, cute language (not intelligent prose either) and examples/extreme examples of what you like in a game and what and why everyone else should follow your lead.
The OP made a point and an observation, thats fine, what isnt are some of the replies by opinionated individuals raging against others views that upset their view of the world as it spins. can anyone simply sit and read, take a minute to digest the information, think for several minutes in reflection on experiances, and then post a positive or negative view with intelligence? seemingly there is a vocal minority that cant do that, they need to vent, rage, or use that cool leet speak (ever wonder where leet speak originated? can we say typos, uneducated? chew on that) to put a point across.
here is my opinion on this thread. think before you type. learn to type, learn to spell, the occasional typo is fine, spell "the" as "teh" means one thing, your simply to lazy to spell and are a follower not a leader. post your opinion, do not be opinionated it makes you look or force other to perceive you as, well, ignorant of the original post.
there are a ton of interesting replies to the op's post, unfortunately there are a ton of simply ignorant, opinionated, "your upsetting my perception of the world" replies also. the industry would be better served if folks thought for a few moments before posting anything about any game.
my opinions:
let folks know where your head is at, dont show them where you should put it.
play your own game, leave everyone else alone.
just because there is a general or local chat, doesnt mean you should use it.
if you cant say something that will help others and is constructive not destructive, shut the hell up.
"we" dont want to play with you. (had to take that shot)
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
The OP made a point and an observation, thats fine, what isnt are some of the replies by opinionated individuals raging against others views that upset their view of the world as it spins.
hahahah i love how you state your opinion on what is fine, and what isn't, as if it's law. I totally agree with you, your opinions are fine but you've made yourself out to look like just a big of an ass as everybody else. that's not fine
I underlined the parts of my post that best emphasize my point, it sounds really stupid doesn't it? it's my opinion that you're an ass, and therefore it's my opinion if it's fine or not. phrasing my opinion on it like a law, or rule of the forums makes me look like moron.
it's funny that's what you did, in a post preaching against it
IMO there seemed to be a huge lack of maturity in WOW. And notice I don't equate Age with Maturity as I've met teens that are polite, mature players and vice versa. Also seemed maybe the worse was in the BGs. The bitching and whining just got old and blizzard could care less about griefing etc. PLayers get a 3 hour ban oooooooo scare me.
But then again the bitching whining and rudeness in the community is maybe a reflection of society which is a whole nother matter.
Oh crap now Im bitching and whining------
Might as well face it Blizzard put out a easy to learn, fun to play game at the right time in the industry. Will something replace it as the badboy on the block. Sure. Will we look back on WoW someday as we now look back on Drakkar, Legends of Kesmai, etc. Man I hope so. Till then if ya like it play it, it's your dollar
id like for someone to explain the "dumbed down factor" because i dont really think it exists really.
whats dumbed down exactly? give examples.
The game plays exactly like everquest did.
ive played both games extensively.
does a game require exp loss to be considered not dumbed down? Does it have to require massive level grinds?
whats the criteria?
Hmm both games have different difficulties I would say. WoW is dumbed-down in some regards but it has situations which just weren't in EQ. Or at least, weren't very big.
WoW has 'encounters' which have to be done a certain way and more situations where AE is necessary. In EQ AEing wasn't that common apart from raids.(or the odd AE groups in OS or Bards swarmkiting) Additionally, WoW doesn't really have any auto-attack classes unlike EQ.
In EQ you had a world which every mob was first and foremost for grouping, you had abilities concentrated with certain classes rather than farmed out to every class, you had mechanics like slow and tash and FD pulling. Items were much more crucial- a cloth wearer could die very quickly. Aggro was more of an issue, you could get aggro from mez/tash/slow/resisted spells/too much damage. You had to manage your weight, especially monks. Mana management was much more necessary etc etc.
Somethings in WoW are a lot more friendly which is a relief, for instance buffing a good hp buff in EQ required a reagent. You would have to cast buffs frequently. Downtime could be excessive. With WoW, much reduced reagents, things like auras to replace buffs though still a 5 min buff with the pally, and downtime is very minimal. But other things as I've mentioned could make EQ have that little more depth.
(additional note, should be noted as EQ developed it was made easier with more and more advancements you could get, and with the design of areas, raiding, however, I believe has retained it's difficulty as well as I'm led to believe trumping the difficulty of WoW raiding)
id like for someone to explain the "dumbed down factor" because i dont really think it exists really. whats dumbed down exactly? give examples. The game plays exactly like everquest did.
ive played both games extensively.
does a game require exp loss to be considered not dumbed down? Does it have to require massive level grinds?
whats the criteria?
One of the most brutal dumbed down factors of WoW is... there is absolutly no death.
Do not even think of comparing EQ's classic death penalty to "death" in WoW..... lol.
The leet kiddiie factor ? Is very high in WoW yes. But the ratio of leet idiots to standard people is the exact same as it is in any MMO. So what ? 30 percent of 8 milion is a lot more people that lets say 30 percent of 450K. These people are as well always the most vocal. I could always find a niche set of players to game with that were at my maturity level and not kiddie types.
The exact same ratio huh? So, how then is it that while I search hard over multiple servers to find a decent community pocket in WOW, without finding a single one (I'm sure they are there, just buried under avalanches of childlike idiots). And then go to EVE or Anarchy Online, and don't even have to look?
why do you types lie ?
My god you lost credibility the very millisecond you mentioned eve online. Ever been blasted at a gate just as you jump in in high sec space ?? ever been scammed ? I experienced that and more in Eve and never once in WoW.
AO ? AO is a dead game now and hasent had a significant population for well over a year now. Likewise when you play a small game population wise all you have left are those that want the the game to survive. They are going to be extremely accomodating of any new player. The leeties already got bored with it and left so there arent as much in those games.
So yes WoW's community sucks cause well your ratio of jerks is the same as any other game there is however number wise a hell of a lot more of them.
Why do the WoW fans here refuse to believe that WoW is a simple game? Much more simple than most P2P games out there. The levelling from 1- 70 is easy, and very straight forward. From the word go, you stand infront of an NPC with a big ! over his / her head. The game points you in the direction of the next zone to quest in once you have done all the quests in X region.
It's simple and easy based on that, most players in WoW solo these levels. Groups at these levels ARE hard to come by, unless you play with a regular bunch of friends. The game only slows down once you hit max level, and then the game falls straight back into a normal MMORPG which is either grinding for faction / honour or 4+ hour raids.
Seriously why do people continue to refute this?
The game was released in a very good state, but people do seem to forget the terrible server issues upon launch, and which took a good few months to fix. WoW is the only game that i have played which thinks it perfectly fine to make paying customers wait in a queue to play the game. Whether it be trying to actually get onto a server or trying to get into a PvP battleground.
Someone said that other developers should take notes on how Blizzard "listen to their customers" and provide patches on a frequent basis - meeting stones anyone? When the "customers" were cryong out for a LFG tool, we got meeting stones. And then how long did it take to implement a simple LFG tool in the end? And in my opinion the LFG tool we have now, isn't all that great either.
Sorry, but how much content was released before TBC which were intended NOT for raids or instances? The game is slowly becoming more and more like GW's - central hub with the main areas all instanced, and with the release of TBC - for me - this is even more apparent.
I'm not knocking WoW - why should i? It's only a game, and i understand that this game isn't for me. Which brings me to my other question, why do MMORPG players continue to believe that every game released has been released with their needs in mind? I don't see the same arguments for single-player games - so why MMORPG's?
What does annoy me about Blizzard, is that they make a serious whack of cash from WoW, and to be perfectly honest as customers we really haven't seen any real benefit from this. What we do have is a Bittorrent patching tool, so Blizzard can cut costs on their price of bandwidth. We have the queue'ing system, so we as players don't overload their servers, we have - pr had, i haven't checked lately - no option to pay and download the TBC expansion, so Blizzard could make money on their box sales.
In my opinion and it's only an opinion, Blizzard is much more concerned about the bottom dollar than any other MMORPG company out there, and will reduce the customer playing experience for the extra buck or two if needed, in my eyes interms of money grabbing they are well above SOE. But that's just an opinion.
WoW is the only game that i have played which thinks it perfectly fine to make paying customers wait in a queue to play the game.
Are their servers still configured to make people wait in queues today?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
No idea, stopped playing about 2 days after TBC was released. Though i think the question really should be: "Since release how long have their servers been configured for queue'ing?" And, "Do you still have to wait 20-30 mins to get into an AV battleground?" - i know i did, right up until i left.
The leet kiddiie factor ? Is very high in WoW yes. But the ratio of leet idiots to standard people is the exact same as it is in any MMO. So what ? 30 percent of 8 milion is a lot more people that lets say 30 percent of 450K. These people are as well always the most vocal. I could always find a niche set of players to game with that were at my maturity level and not kiddie types.
The exact same ratio huh? So, how then is it that while I search hard over multiple servers to find a decent community pocket in WOW, without finding a single one (I'm sure they are there, just buried under avalanches of childlike idiots). And then go to EVE or Anarchy Online, and don't even have to look?
why do you types lie ?
My god you lost credibility the very millisecond you mentioned eve online. Ever been blasted at a gate just as you jump in in high sec space ?? ever been scammed ? I experienced that and more in Eve and never once in WoW.
AO ? AO is a dead game now and hasent had a significant population for well over a year now. Likewise when you play a small game population wise all you have left are those that want the the game to survive. They are going to be extremely accomodating of any new player. The leeties already got bored with it and left so there arent as much in those games.
So yes WoW's community sucks cause well your ratio of jerks is the same as any other game there is however number wise a hell of a lot more of them.
end of MMO populatiion education lesson.
I did not lie, I spoke from personal experience. and out of curiosity, what is my "type"? I certainly haven't been invited to any meetings.
I was talking about the "leet kiddie" factor, as in players who act in a childish manner. The kind of people who will spam lame Chuck Norris jokes all the time, and are more likely to verbally abuse someone asking for help than actually tell them what they need to know. If WOW and other games had the same ratio of kiddies vs mature players, it would not matter how many were in WOW or in other games, since the average distribution would be the same. And yet, the average feel of multiple other games is a lot more mature than in WOW. In other words, your "theory" is an impossible scenario, end of basic math lesson.
EVE has its share of assholes, but the only reason you get scammed and ganked there and not in WOW is because it is not possible in World of Warcraft, no other reason. It is a game of consequenses, where you are responsible for your choices and the effects of those choices. In other words, a game that asks you to grow up instead of coddling you along like a babe in silk swaddling.
as to AO, it is far from dead, it certainly isn't the most lively game in existance, but it still draws a crowd.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Aeflinn is right, how many times in WoW on aPvP server have you been corpse camped? i know it had happened to me countless times. The reason people say that people in WoW aren't ruthless, is because that's the largest amount of grief you can give to another player, the game coddles you.
Now that's not always bad, that, + the lack of death penalty, + the ignore list means that children ages 6 or so can play, without their parents having to worry at all, which is partially why the game is so successful, it's an overdeveloped toontown.
this isn't bad, the genre needs a game that appeals to both the younger and the older audiences.
but the fact that even if your ratio theory was correct, which is probably isn't (how many kids want EvE combat? i enjoy it, not many other do) 35or whatever % of 8million is an obscene #, and they tend to be the vocal community.
This grotesque amount of people, can foster terrible environments depending on the server, which is what alot of people first see when they play.
When i played WoW, it took me a year or so to settle in with the right group of people, and then some to get my RL friends to join up, who are also great people--
--there ARE great people in WoW, but not nearly as pronounced as in other games.
The ratio of different types of players is basically the same across the entire MMO genre, there are always going to be kids who find it funny to flame and noob around, its life. The fact is that in WoW particularly, the actual decent players are far too immersed in trying to keep up with the losers that have quit their jobs to powerlevel to 70 or get their tier 92 armor sets and what not. WoW demands work 100% of the time, or you'll fall behind the majority of other players. That's what i resent about the game.
There are other games out there which can be more light hearted, a prime example would be runescape, i played this game for an incredibly long time because the community was the best out there. When it was at its peak, at least. Obviously, if you go onto runescape in 2007 its an absolutely pathetic game, and probably a worse community by now. But yeah, what i'm trying to say is that WoW really isn't worth the hard work at all, not one iota, all you'll have to show for it at the end is respect from the community, who are all fools anyway. No offence.
Popular myths about wow dispelled...you mean like the one that says WoW is a good game? Honestly its just Everquest redesigned and made easier.
The most popular mmorpg on the market now maybe, but that doesn't make it a good game. Brilliance on Blizzard's behalf though. WoW is the pinnacle of marketing what with it's start up fan base to get the ball rolling, then using less power hungry graphics so that even non video games can throw it on their crappy $500 dollar Dell bought laptops and play. Not to mention how easy it is. But this has probably already been said in this thread, I just don't feel like sifting through pages upon pages of "internet arguing".
Some one needs to grow a pair of balls (as well as quite a few money trees) and make an MMORPG using the controls of a game like Ninja Gaiden Black or Devil May Cry 3.
Comments
id like for someone to explain the "dumbed down factor" because i dont really think it exists really.
whats dumbed down exactly? give examples.
The game plays exactly like everquest did.
ive played both games extensively.
does a game require exp loss to be considered not dumbed down? Does it have to require massive level grinds?
whats the criteria?
The answer - because it seems every new game is trying to BE WoW.
Sure, 7 million subs can't be wrong. And it has a long-running sequel behind it. But examine the facts for a moment.
Take a look at the new games coming out. Nearly all of them reside in the same genre as WoW - the fantasy Orc/Priest/Elf grind-till-I-cancel-my-sub-in-frustration MMO. What happened to genres like Sci-Fi and historical? Neocron2 is one of the best MMO's I have ever played. The customer services blows, the graphics are outdated, the game is STILL buggy after years of patching, but it's the genre that kept me coming back to that game. The gritty Sci-Fi feel and the concept of the game make it a grain of salt in the pepper shaker that is the MMO world today. I'm not saying it's the best game of all time, but it's different, and variety is the spice of life IMHO.
It's times like these that I wish I was a dev.
I agree here and so do alot of other MMOers. Devs have this fantasy tunnel vision. I guess they think we are all idiots and can't understand anything but Fantasy, although most other gaming genres hardly have that much in fantasy at all. The best shooters/RTS/Adventure games are not fantasy. In fact there are very few fantasy games outside of MMO's right now. Other genres know MMO devs are beating it to death.
I'll tell what NEEDS to be an MMO...Star Wars Lego I or II !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me and my kids can play that game to death lol.
That or a totally original title with several Alien races, vehicles, spaceships, rich universe, explorable planets with no one on them but creepy places and monsters, settled planets to hang out on, trade routes, pirates, weird alien invaders (think Aliens), ground vehicle chases through crowded cities (a la the Fifth Element) strange artifacts and places, twisted dark plots to take over the galaxy.....mwhahaha...I wish I was an MMO producer
We would be having some fun. Instead I guess we get more swords/spells/elves and dwarves and rat killing.
I decided to try out WoW again to see if anything changed and I played alone from 1-60, on a new server, playing only a few hours ever day or so and reached 60 in about a month. My total playing time was a little over 7 days.
Things that drive me crazy about WoW
Lack of skills (You have about 12 skills, but they hide this fact by making you pay for a new rank every other level. The expansion has introduced make 4-5 new skills per class.)
The same old bugs continue to plague us since release
For something that is so "polished" why can't they make gnomes sit on mounts without their legs going through the animals body, or why does my sideburns go through every helmet I wear? It's these little things that makes the game not so polished.
If you're not lvl x5-x9 you are rediculued in pvp because you are basically useless. A lvl 20 player has no chance against a level 29 player. This is a flawed system that really needs to be changed.
Alright, here we go
game w/ flaws, but not dumbed down - Pre-CU SWG
Dumbed down - Post CU SWG
Worse than WoW dumb - Post NGE SWG
that's also in chronilogical order, CU came b4 NGE.
People just use the term "dumbed down" to make themselves feel smarter. No different from kids taunting other kids to make themselves feel better.
You don't need to be smart to play any game. EQ, SWG, or anything. Its all the same. Just kill stuff and level up. Nothing too hard about that. I've met many idiots in every MMO I've played. They somehow made it to max level. All it takes is time, not smarts.
you're defining it wrong, it doesn't imply the players who play it are stupid, or even the methods of leveling in the game is simple.
it implies that there is more then 1 system in the game, that is innovative, or complex, and integrates/depends on many other aspects of the game
Such an example of this actually IS found in WoW, and that's the talent system. balancing all of those talents creates a system that's not dumbedd down, at least in many cases (see when i used to play, healers were pigeon holed)
in SWG, only ONE example would be the BF/wound/decay system, which was taken away post NGE. it used to be that each class was interdependent on the others, voila---a MASSIVLEYMO
isnt it great that anyone can post his/ her/ it's opinion? after all when it comes right down to it you can flap your pie hole all day and try to quantify your observations verse someone elses to try and get in that one upmanship. the thing that detracts from opinions are when they become opinonated, trying to support your belief, with threats, cute language (not intelligent prose either) and examples/extreme examples of what you like in a game and what and why everyone else should follow your lead.
The OP made a point and an observation, thats fine, what isnt are some of the replies by opinionated individuals raging against others views that upset their view of the world as it spins. can anyone simply sit and read, take a minute to digest the information, think for several minutes in reflection on experiances, and then post a positive or negative view with intelligence? seemingly there is a vocal minority that cant do that, they need to vent, rage, or use that cool leet speak (ever wonder where leet speak originated? can we say typos, uneducated? chew on that) to put a point across.
here is my opinion on this thread. think before you type. learn to type, learn to spell, the occasional typo is fine, spell "the" as "teh" means one thing, your simply to lazy to spell and are a follower not a leader. post your opinion, do not be opinionated it makes you look or force other to perceive you as, well, ignorant of the original post.
there are a ton of interesting replies to the op's post, unfortunately there are a ton of simply ignorant, opinionated, "your upsetting my perception of the world" replies also. the industry would be better served if folks thought for a few moments before posting anything about any game.
my opinions:
let folks know where your head is at, dont show them where you should put it.
play your own game, leave everyone else alone.
just because there is a general or local chat, doesnt mean you should use it.
if you cant say something that will help others and is constructive not destructive, shut the hell up.
"we" dont want to play with you. (had to take that shot)
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
hahahah i love how you state your opinion on what is fine, and what isn't, as if it's law. I totally agree with you, your opinions are fine but you've made yourself out to look like just a big of an ass as everybody else. that's not fine
I underlined the parts of my post that best emphasize my point, it sounds really stupid doesn't it? it's my opinion that you're an ass, and therefore it's my opinion if it's fine or not. phrasing my opinion on it like a law, or rule of the forums makes me look like moron.
it's funny that's what you did, in a post preaching against it
thanks for the laugh ^.^
IMO there seemed to be a huge lack of maturity in WOW. And notice I don't equate Age with Maturity as I've met teens that are polite, mature players and vice versa. Also seemed maybe the worse was in the BGs. The bitching and whining just got old and blizzard could care less about griefing etc. PLayers get a 3 hour ban oooooooo scare me.
But then again the bitching whining and rudeness in the community is maybe a reflection of society which is a whole nother matter.
Oh crap now Im bitching and whining------
Might as well face it Blizzard put out a easy to learn, fun to play game at the right time in the industry. Will something replace it as the badboy on the block. Sure. Will we look back on WoW someday as we now look back on Drakkar, Legends of Kesmai, etc. Man I hope so. Till then if ya like it play it, it's your dollar
John P Cooper
Hmm both games have different difficulties I would say. WoW is dumbed-down in some regards but it has situations which just weren't in EQ. Or at least, weren't very big.
WoW has 'encounters' which have to be done a certain way and more situations where AE is necessary. In EQ AEing wasn't that common apart from raids.(or the odd AE groups in OS or Bards swarmkiting) Additionally, WoW doesn't really have any auto-attack classes unlike EQ.
In EQ you had a world which every mob was first and foremost for grouping, you had abilities concentrated with certain classes rather than farmed out to every class, you had mechanics like slow and tash and FD pulling. Items were much more crucial- a cloth wearer could die very quickly. Aggro was more of an issue, you could get aggro from mez/tash/slow/resisted spells/too much damage. You had to manage your weight, especially monks. Mana management was much more necessary etc etc.
Somethings in WoW are a lot more friendly which is a relief, for instance buffing a good hp buff in EQ required a reagent. You would have to cast buffs frequently. Downtime could be excessive. With WoW, much reduced reagents, things like auras to replace buffs though still a 5 min buff with the pally, and downtime is very minimal. But other things as I've mentioned could make EQ have that little more depth.
(additional note, should be noted as EQ developed it was made easier with more and more advancements you could get, and with the design of areas, raiding, however, I believe has retained it's difficulty as well as I'm led to believe trumping the difficulty of WoW raiding)
Do not even think of comparing EQ's classic death penalty to "death" in WoW..... lol.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
why do you types lie ?
My god you lost credibility the very millisecond you mentioned eve online. Ever been blasted at a gate just as you jump in in high sec space ?? ever been scammed ? I experienced that and more in Eve and never once in WoW.
AO ? AO is a dead game now and hasent had a significant population for well over a year now. Likewise when you play a small game population wise all you have left are those that want the the game to survive. They are going to be extremely accomodating of any new player. The leeties already got bored with it and left so there arent as much in those games.
So yes WoW's community sucks cause well your ratio of jerks is the same as any other game there is however number wise a hell of a lot more of them.
end of MMO populatiion education lesson.
It's simple and easy based on that, most players in WoW solo these levels. Groups at these levels ARE hard to come by, unless you play with a regular bunch of friends. The game only slows down once you hit max level, and then the game falls straight back into a normal MMORPG which is either grinding for faction / honour or 4+ hour raids.
Seriously why do people continue to refute this?
The game was released in a very good state, but people do seem to forget the terrible server issues upon launch, and which took a good few months to fix. WoW is the only game that i have played which thinks it perfectly fine to make paying customers wait in a queue to play the game. Whether it be trying to actually get onto a server or trying to get into a PvP battleground.
Someone said that other developers should take notes on how Blizzard "listen to their customers" and provide patches on a frequent basis - meeting stones anyone? When the "customers" were cryong out for a LFG tool, we got meeting stones. And then how long did it take to implement a simple LFG tool in the end? And in my opinion the LFG tool we have now, isn't all that great either.
Sorry, but how much content was released before TBC which were intended NOT for raids or instances? The game is slowly becoming more and more like GW's - central hub with the main areas all instanced, and with the release of TBC - for me - this is even more apparent.
I'm not knocking WoW - why should i? It's only a game, and i understand that this game isn't for me. Which brings me to my other question, why do MMORPG players continue to believe that every game released has been released with their needs in mind? I don't see the same arguments for single-player games - so why MMORPG's?
What does annoy me about Blizzard, is that they make a serious whack of cash from WoW, and to be perfectly honest as customers we really haven't seen any real benefit from this. What we do have is a Bittorrent patching tool, so Blizzard can cut costs on their price of bandwidth. We have the queue'ing system, so we as players don't overload their servers, we have - pr had, i haven't checked lately - no option to pay and download the TBC expansion, so Blizzard could make money on their box sales.
In my opinion and it's only an opinion, Blizzard is much more concerned about the bottom dollar than any other MMORPG company out there, and will reduce the customer playing experience for the extra buck or two if needed, in my eyes interms of money grabbing they are well above SOE. But that's just an opinion.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
why do you types lie ?
My god you lost credibility the very millisecond you mentioned eve online. Ever been blasted at a gate just as you jump in in high sec space ?? ever been scammed ? I experienced that and more in Eve and never once in WoW.
AO ? AO is a dead game now and hasent had a significant population for well over a year now. Likewise when you play a small game population wise all you have left are those that want the the game to survive. They are going to be extremely accomodating of any new player. The leeties already got bored with it and left so there arent as much in those games.
So yes WoW's community sucks cause well your ratio of jerks is the same as any other game there is however number wise a hell of a lot more of them.
end of MMO populatiion education lesson.
I did not lie, I spoke from personal experience. and out of curiosity, what is my "type"? I certainly haven't been invited to any meetings.
I was talking about the "leet kiddie" factor, as in players who act in a childish manner. The kind of people who will spam lame Chuck Norris jokes all the time, and are more likely to verbally abuse someone asking for help than actually tell them what they need to know. If WOW and other games had the same ratio of kiddies vs mature players, it would not matter how many were in WOW or in other games, since the average distribution would be the same. And yet, the average feel of multiple other games is a lot more mature than in WOW. In other words, your "theory" is an impossible scenario, end of basic math lesson.
EVE has its share of assholes, but the only reason you get scammed and ganked there and not in WOW is because it is not possible in World of Warcraft, no other reason. It is a game of consequenses, where you are responsible for your choices and the effects of those choices. In other words, a game that asks you to grow up instead of coddling you along like a babe in silk swaddling.
as to AO, it is far from dead, it certainly isn't the most lively game in existance, but it still draws a crowd.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Aeflinn is right, how many times in WoW on aPvP server have you been corpse camped? i know it had happened to me countless times. The reason people say that people in WoW aren't ruthless, is because that's the largest amount of grief you can give to another player, the game coddles you.
Now that's not always bad, that, + the lack of death penalty, + the ignore list means that children ages 6 or so can play, without their parents having to worry at all, which is partially why the game is so successful, it's an overdeveloped toontown.
this isn't bad, the genre needs a game that appeals to both the younger and the older audiences.
but the fact that even if your ratio theory was correct, which is probably isn't (how many kids want EvE combat? i enjoy it, not many other do) 35or whatever % of 8million is an obscene #, and they tend to be the vocal community.
This grotesque amount of people, can foster terrible environments depending on the server, which is what alot of people first see when they play.
When i played WoW, it took me a year or so to settle in with the right group of people, and then some to get my RL friends to join up, who are also great people--
--there ARE great people in WoW, but not nearly as pronounced as in other games.
The ratio of different types of players is basically the same across the entire MMO genre, there are always going to be kids who find it funny to flame and noob around, its life. The fact is that in WoW particularly, the actual decent players are far too immersed in trying to keep up with the losers that have quit their jobs to powerlevel to 70 or get their tier 92 armor sets and what not. WoW demands work 100% of the time, or you'll fall behind the majority of other players. That's what i resent about the game.
There are other games out there which can be more light hearted, a prime example would be runescape, i played this game for an incredibly long time because the community was the best out there. When it was at its peak, at least. Obviously, if you go onto runescape in 2007 its an absolutely pathetic game, and probably a worse community by now. But yeah, what i'm trying to say is that WoW really isn't worth the hard work at all, not one iota, all you'll have to show for it at the end is respect from the community, who are all fools anyway. No offence.
DOWN WITH WOW. That's what i say.
Luke.
The most popular mmorpg on the market now maybe, but that doesn't make it a good game. Brilliance on Blizzard's behalf though. WoW is the pinnacle of marketing what with it's start up fan base to get the ball rolling, then using less power hungry graphics so that even non video games can throw it on their crappy $500 dollar Dell bought laptops and play. Not to mention how easy it is. But this has probably already been said in this thread, I just don't feel like sifting through pages upon pages of "internet arguing".
Some one needs to grow a pair of balls (as well as quite a few money trees) and make an MMORPG using the controls of a game like Ninja Gaiden Black or Devil May Cry 3.