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POLL >> Should DEVS/GMS be able to play in their Customer's Political Alliances?
fisherc
Member Posts: 134
in EVE Online
Common responses for yes/no:
YES:
- They have designed the game, why shouldn't they be able to?
- Knowing how to play the game and it's downfalls help them make the game better.
- A few corrupt Devs/GMS should not ruin the game for the moral devs.
- Devs are existant in all major alliances anyways.
NO:
- CCP is bound to encounter corrupt DEV/GMS and should protect the credibility of themselves and their game by taking preventative measures, not reactionary.
- CCP Should at least take the stance of making it flagrantly visible, what characters are currently playing on an Admin/Dev/GM Account.
- Their Creation is meant for their customers. Playing the game with insider knowledge just isn't fair to the people who support them. Especially with EPIC Content such as Empire Warfare.
- No, the chance of them cheating is just too great and unfair to their customers.
Feel free to state aditional reasons below 
EDIT: Added Poll to the subject title
Comments
The Question I asked myself is: In a game like EvE where content is truly EPIC with galactic domination, years of effort at stake in war and extremely difficult to obtain BPO's, should they?
WoW and other games answer is simply yes. DEVS/GMS being corrupt does not really affect their customers. Games like WoW have very little at stake.
However, in EVE, years of effort could be at stake. Time is invested into Outposts which could fall with simple dev corruption and not to mention the Severe Advantages that could be gained with corruptoin. With so much at stake, the answer is no. Since dev Corruption is bound to happen. WoW/Diablo 2 have had corrupt Devs... many other games have had corrupt GMS. It's GOING to happen, they should take steps to prevent it. Prohibiting them from playing with customer alliances is one way, make them all part of the ISD.
It's my personal opinion that they should AT LEAST take the stance Asherons call had on DEV's/GM's. Make them FLAGRANTLY visible. In Asherons call they showed up in a bright pink dot on the map with special effects surrounding them when they were on an admin account, with admin capabilities. AT very least the same thing should apply to eve. To make DEV/GM Participation more visible to outsiders.
I saw yes, it is there game afterall. But there is a risk of corruption so such actions should be transparent.
No, not in an Alliance. They should just play the game on their own, because somehow, i can't see a Dev mining, or ratting to get money... it seems like a big chunk of their time wasted if they do mine or hunt NPCs on Tranquility (none testing purposes).
I think it's great that they play the game, but taking part in Alliance Wars can really do damage, and players will feel they have an unfair advantage if they knew they just got killed by a Dev/GM.
-iCeh
I think, that they can play the game but not with the power to change it.
That they have an account like me or you, to play wen they are no working.
Hold it for a minute.
Discussing what devs do on their dev/admin accounts is rather useless. Those aren't teh accounts we're talking about here. Those admin accounts with the gm powers etc don't get to be in player corps. They are all in either non-playyer accesible NPC corps (events) or in ISD, the gm/dev/eventstaff/moderator corporation ingame, that is very very recognisable and of which every memebr action is continuously audtited by dedicated CCP staffers.
So, in my opinion, yes, ccp emplyees should damn well be allowed to play the game. The only possible damage corruption could do in my eyes is when insider info of a nature that can be abused gets out through loosely-lipped devs. That info is extremely rare in this game anyway, since ALL pending changes are well known in advance, and can be tried out weeks upfront on the public test server.
That leaves inttricate knowledge of of example algoruthms that npc spawns are based off, which is of no more use then normal player experience on that subject will be, since direct meddling is more or less impossible again due to audits of all chars witht direct powers.
So if thats no possibility either, only competitive events with certain prizes that are based off of things you could prepare for upfront remain as sources of possible damage. For that no solution remains since event staff is employees as well as volunteers, and indeed no option but putting trust in them and having them follow stringent guidlines with regard to information dissemination remains.
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MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
Devs should be allowed to play the game. They should not let anyone else know they are devs. And the should not, for example, obtain a t2 BP for an alliance.
If they do then CCP should
By doing so they will send out a strong message that cheating wont be tolerated, anything less and we will know that they dont really want our money and we should jump to ST:O as soon as we can.
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Member of Coreli corp.
We have the boosters you crave!
Yes, let them play their game. Or would you rather have people who haven't got a clue about the gameplay working on it?
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
However, there is no limit on what a Dev can get involved in with currently. Is it really a good idea for a Dev to be a director or even CEO of a major 0.0 corp or alliance? That's the question that has been brought up by BoBgate. Should someone who makes the game, has a great deal of knowledge about the game that cannot be obtained by simply playing, it be in charge of the epic end game content of EvE?
The possibility of bias are too great, IMO. And even if there is no wrongdoing, there will always be the perception that something fishy is going on. Maybe BoB did earn everything with their hard work. But can you be sure of that now, knowing that a Dev as a director, told other people that he was a Dev and even went and tried to get members of BoB to apply for a job at CCP?
CCP needs to put some limits on what is allowed and what is not. Devs can play the game, but there needs to be limits on what they are allowed to do. There needs to be a clear code of conduct for Devs and made available to the community so people can report possible abuses.
The current system needs to be changed, IMO. As it stands, everyone looses out. This applies especially to the membership of BoB. Despite all the crap thrown at them, the vast majority of BoB are great folks who put a lot of time and effort into the game to get where they are. They deserve better then to get that kind of crap thrown at them by CCP.
The EvE community should really all band together and get this changed.
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The developers should do what they are there for:
Keep the subscribers entertained.
I actually don't really see the reason for this to be hindered in any way. Why allow some random person to gain an advantage when you can hand it over to a specific individual that has contact (or even better influence) with a significant chunk of the gamer population. EVE is a small niche-game, they should be allowed to control the game any way they like.
Of course things are handed out and of course this means that not everybody has the same chance. So what? Really, so what? Does that make the game any worse? Propably not, you most likely wouldn't even notice and if it means that a huge alliance is kept entertained doesn't that just mean more subscribers are staying and therefore more content could be developed?
Yes it does. EVE is not World of Warcraft, a bit of community grease is not hurting anyone.
GM, Devs, and ISD personnel use the same account that all the rest of us do for to play the game for fun. Only difference is that thiers has the billing flag turned off so they don't get charged for it.
The only thing roughly confirmed is that a Dev goofed up and suggested a player submit a application to CCP on his player account. Should he get fired for that, No. Should the corp/alliance he was apart if get touched in anyway, No. Should that character on his player account be removed from the Game, Yes. Let him make a new character and start from scratch as penalty for let the cat out of the bag so to speak.
As for all the other accusations, I plan on waiting on CCP since I have NO facts whats so ever to back any of them up.
Interesting, 35 % currently say they shouldn't.
I actually expected closer to 25% but it is a small sample
Even 25% saying no should be enough for CCP to say 'alright, we shouldn't play with our customer's politics, even if we aren't actually doing anything wrong and just participating'
Contrary to what is said here the game is not "their" game. They are employees, they work for their employer - CCP and the game belongs to CCP and not to a specific GM or a Dev who are hired personnel after all. To test the game is absolutely NOT necessary to play it near "end-game" content level. There's no end-game content in Eve, but alliance political warfare is as close as it gets. Even a rumor of Devs assisting certain political power can be very damaging for a game, and if CCP personnel are involved at playing at that level, those rumors WILL start spreading. It doesn't even matter if they are justified or not, they WILL damage the game. So, is it worth to risk a PR disaster to let the Devs and GMs to mix with their paying customers? People sometimes underestimate the bond that is created between corporation and alliance members. Many gamers spend more time with their on-line friends than they spend with their RL friends, especially in super dedicated alliances. It would take an effort of titanic proportion for a Dev not to tell one of his friends that such and such changes are being planned or that a certain event is going to happen, or to reply "I don't know" if he is asked about how to tweak the client to reduce lag. And all those things are pretty innocent compared to other possible abuses.
It highlights the core of the issue: Credibility.
The posters claiming that no real proof has been presented are basically putting on a voluntary blind-fold. With any luck, Moghidin's very well worded post will shine a bit of light on what the avid fans find so hard to even contemplate.
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
Absolutely no CCP dev accounts are members of any corporation with players in it. You do not get someone in your corp with teal color or any "powers" at all. Devs/GMs/ISD do play the game, but with their own separate and completely normal accounts. Their "work" accounts are totally separate and constantly logged and never used to "play" the game.
Where do people get ideas like this??
"never used to "play" the game. "
I like the quotes around "play".
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
Absolutely no CCP dev accounts are members of any corporation with players in it. You do not get someone in your corp with teal color or any "powers" at all. Devs/GMs/ISD do play the game, but with their own separate and completely normal accounts. Their "work" accounts are totally separate and constantly logged and never used to "play" the game.
Where do people get ideas like this??
That was his point. He was pointing out, that if there were a Dev in a player corp then you'd know about it because of those chat colours. He/She (can't view people's profiles for some reason. ;/) then went on to say that Devs/GMs do play the game, on different accounts.
-iCeh
Must have been worded badly than, sorry.
After reading it three times I can see what you thought it meant! heh
But you'll never see colored text in a player corp since those special accounts aren't used to play the game with. And if for some reason a dev got stupid and used his special account to give items or whatever to his normal account that'll be logged and caught by CCP. Getting fired for some items in a computer game seems pretty stupid. It hasn't stopped everyone (that silly GM over the summer.. what a dummy!) but if it happens I'm fully confident that CCP would catch it and stop it before it had any impact on the game.
Limiting devs from playing the game they know and love in the name of this stupid witchhunt is just insane. Anyone wins because they try harder and play better, not because some of their members might be a dev for their day job.
You don't see the Referee's of any sport playing in the same league they referee.
Why should the Referee's of EVE be treated differently?
Why not, though? It isn't like they have referee powers when they're actually playing the game.
Furthermore, referees, like game designers, are expected to know the subject matter which they're governing. I am sure playing the game that they're refereeing is required for a ref, just like playing the game is required for a game dev.
The only problem with the same concept in EVE is that devs can have insider information. Provided that you can trust devs to keep info to themselves in addition to them not being able to use avatar account powers (special designer/CS stuff), I see no reason why they cannot be part of player corps for:
1. Experience with the game/playerbase that they're working on/for.
2. Getting to play the game which they obviously enjoy and find interesting (not many designers will sign on to work on a game which they don't enjoy playing).