I hear this quite a bit. I'm not being smart but what exactly was promised and not delivered?
Also, your obviously going to get better fps in Oblivion, it's a single player game. I will admit there's a little plastic look to the Vanguard character models. I still thought they made EQ2's look more cartoon-like.
Yes, we are all aware of your anti-raiding stance, ever since FoH handed you your ass on a platter.
LOL, you are mistaken, FoH wasn't on my server! Funny guy.
FoH are a bunch of NUBS!
I also beat them on some individual achievements despite the fact I have not even half their stats in raw power such as HPs or AC, all of them! So...LOL at FoH NUBsters that leave a game that focus on them and even pay them airplane tickets! ROFL, NUBier than that...hard to do. EQ gives them every edge, and they still manage to lack and complains and they abandon the game in an EMO-way. ROFL.
PS: A few of their ranks aren't nubs, about a group and a half of them. So roughtly, 9 of them in the best case scenario. 4 in the worst, didn't know them that well, just read at their nubishness on the web.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The human eye can see the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Just because you read an article on the internet saying different doesn't mean it's true. I can tell the difference, and so can thousands of others. I also know the system specs of thousands of others. It's something called 3dMark. It's also called "Not everyone buys a $2000 computer this year." Since I know the fact is that thousands of people have computers, and thousands play MMO's, and thousands play Vaguard, and thanks to things like 3d-Mark which tells me my computer vs. the average computer, as well as me being able to do 2 + 2 = 4....well you see, I can SAFELY know thousands of other's system specs are under mine, as well as the CONSTANT forums where people go to great lengths to increase their FPS from 10 to 15 using "tweaks." If you MUST know, I got anywhere between 1 FPS and 70 FPS. The fact is though, those are more rare than the average number. Sometimes my average was 20, sometimes 30, sometimes 40. I don't have to say exact numbers just to be free from your judgemet. You're misinformed, perhaps you should reevaluate where you get your knowledge and assumptions from.
Your full of it am running a top of the line computer too and when i go into a city and my frames drop from 60 to 30 theres no difference what so ever. why do you think that movies are filmed at 30 FPS and not at 60 FPS The only time they use more is when they want to capture something like a bullet in mid flight
My system cost me $2000, which is high-end. The fact of the matter is....... unless there is a major leap in graphics quality, there is no reason that a system that can run oblivion SMOOTHLY on max settings can't run Vanguard on lowest settings with a greater framerate.
Ronny, bad news bud... you do not have a high end gaming system.
which Dell recently advertised in PC Gaming for Windows starting at $5600.00.
I paid $3200 for my XPS Laptop 2 years ago and today I'd say two grand buys you a very middle of the road box.
(heck, a single good video card can easily cost you $600.... and many high end boxes are running two of them)
From what I hear, people with "real" high end systems are running at 50+ frames a second.....
Meanwhile, I'm averaging only 11-14 fps on the high performance settings....(and no, it doesn't look like a slide show)
and I enjoy playing the game. Others will too...
Ron boy, stop the crusade.... you like WOW, you hate Vanguard.... if they are not paying you to speak out against Vanguard, then please, give it a rest, OK?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've been playing MMO's on a daily basis since the release of UO back in the day. I and my entire group of friends quit WoW and come over to Vanguard upon release.
Yes, the game has bugs that will get fixed.
No, the game is NOT unplayable.
Yes, there is an issue with performance which they have already stated will get fixed.
I love the fact that I am playing a game with my friends finally that takes us back to risk with reward. To monks feign death pulling. to all the things I loved about EQ when I played it for 5 years, and none of the things I hated.
I know there is alot of bashing right now, and the folks that are bashing Vanguard have that right and are justified I guess. I chose rather to commit to it because I really enjoy it and I know it will get better.
I spent $7,800 on an Alienware ALX system on Friday to play Vanguard. Once they get the kinks worked out, you won't need anything near that to play and enjoy this game, but boy am I gonna love it :P
I took a page out of Alienware's book for the ALX system and built my own with specs as follows...
EVGA 680i Mobo
Intel QX6700 Quadcore Processor
2x250GB SATA2 in Raid0
2 EVGA Nvidia 8800GTX VCs in SLI (Thats Quad GPUs)
4GB Kensington Ram (which windows only recognizes 2.5 in 32bit do to the massive amount of mem on the Video cards)
The rest doesn't matter.....
Once i was up and running, i maxed out WoW at 60.1 fps (which i'm told is as high as it will go) It doesn't matter if i'm out in the wild by myself or in Lagforge. I get 60.1 with NO changes.
Then... I got Vanguard....
and needless to say WTF...
there are times when my fps will drop to 5. Now before someone says it... Yes WoW isn't a performance hog like Vanguard. But in my opinion, if i'm running the BEST of the BEST i shouldn't be getting as low as 5. Whats the point of releasing a game that will not run smoothly on even the best that technology offers at release?? That's like saying, here is manufacturing a suit that will allow you to walk on Pluto, even though we aren't going there yet.
I dunno... but whatever... I LOVE the game... I just hope they fix this mess quick.
I took a page out of Alienware's book for the ALX system and built my own with specs as follows... EVGA 680i Mobo Intel QX6700 Quadcore Processor 2x250GB SATA2 in Raid0 2 EVGA Nvidia 8800GTX VCs in SLI (Thats Quad GPUs) 4GB Kensington Ram (which windows only recognizes 2.5 in 32bit do to the massive amount of mem on the Video cards) The rest doesn't matter..... Once i was up and running, i maxed out WoW at 60.1 fps (which i'm told is as high as it will go) It doesn't matter if i'm out in the wild by myself or in Lagforge. I get 60.1 with NO changes. Then... I got Vanguard.... and needless to say WTF... there are times when my fps will drop to 5. Now before someone says it... Yes WoW isn't a performance hog like Vanguard. But in my opinion, if i'm running the BEST of the BEST i shouldn't be getting as low as 5. Whats the point of releasing a game that will not run smoothly on even the best that technology offers at release?? That's like saying, here is manufacturing a suit that will allow you to walk on Pluto, even though we aren't going there yet. I dunno... but whatever... I LOVE the game... I just hope they fix this mess quick. Cheers
Drduplic.
I just noticed you mentioned you have a Raid array in your set up.
There's been a number of mentions on silky venom and the official forums that Raid arrays are killing performance in Vanguard, enough to make a night and day difference when deactivated. Sigil has yet to confirm this, most likely because they want to release a patch before the confirm it as a bug but it seems to be genuine.
Anyways, thought you'd want to know, I'll look to see if I can find the thread for you.
I just thought i'd mention that when someone states they have a high end rig because they spent 2000 dollars on it that they are ignorant of how gaming pc's work. Like a friend of mine before the new core 2 duo's came out spent extra on a dual core AMD which.....yea people think it's a better CPU but a single core 4000 actually got better frame rates on nearly every game on the market and it cost tons less.
Also, I have done alot of test with FPS for many many games and this "I can tell the difference between 30-60fps is rather silly. I'm scientific in nature and trust me judgements based on someones personal feelings or ideas is just not scientific. Test it over and over and over scientifically and then we will see the results. Sometimes when I would get very zoned in playing COD I could detect lag up to 35 frames per second but that wasn't a gut feeling.....I was actually seeing lag. Most of the time the norm is true 30fps is about right for a human or maybe even less.
As for Vanguard I haven't played it but I have played many other MMO's and alot of them have bugs at release. The reason games like Vanguard have more bugs is they are more complicated. People don't mention it but the reason wow didn't have game breaking bugs is they didn't chart new ground. They basically took the low road and toned down the complexity of everything in the game. Yes, I know what i'm talking about at any moment I can log onto 4 level 60+ toons on wow.
actually you can tell the difference between 30 and 60 because the frame rate is variable.
if your constantly around 30 you will rise and fall around that number, say 20-40 and it will be noticable as you go below 30. On the other side at 60 you never spike below 50 so you can actually see the net effect between the two. ( 60 fps always looks good, 30 fps will have slowdowns as your the load spikes. )
What I was meaning if the game is running constantly at 30fps
I think a lot of people have a hard time understanding what it means.
You can't see each individual frame rendering before you at 60 fps.
It doesn't matter what you think you are seeing your eye and brain do not distinguish between a "constant" 30 fps or a "constant" 60 fps. The only reason you "think" you notice a dif. is because the numbers counting your framerate on your screen move, and when they drop to 30 you suddenly think omg somethings wrong. Nothings wrong, if you can get a steady 30 fps your doing good. If you can get 60 even better because you wont notice a change if it does drop to 30. However, if your like me and you are doing good at 30 and it drops to 15 then there is a significant dif, because your eye can "almost" make out each from as they move in front of you. If you could tell the dif you wouldn't be running the FPS indicator, you would be able to sit and count each frame as they ticked off in front of you.
The 60 mark is the benchmark they use to determine the processing power of a vid card because if you could mantain 30 fps at highest quality settings with a particular card it would be useless in things like video edtiting, and a lot of modern Gfx cards are needed to do multiple tasks, not just make your games look pretty.
I don't even think most games are coded with 60 fps worth of animation; wich in itself would disprove anyone who thinks they see the dif. I think.
I like the game alot, and I will play at least until my CE subscription runs out. Although the poster may not have said it in the best way...this game really FAR FAR too hardware intensive. My computer isnt the best, but i would rate it about average, maybe slightly higher (not average GAMER, just average persons cpu)[P4 3.4, 2 gig RAM, Radeon 1950 pro]. I have done all the tweaks I could find, turn settings down as much as I could tolerate (highest performance is fugging ugly, shouldnt even be an option) and I get decent FPS (town 15-25, wild 50+) but the game still stutters. If I group and go somewhere with alot of mobs, forget about it, lots of lag...
If I were wiling to shell out thousands for a new CPU this game would look and play amazingly. Vanguard has huge potential, and I think it is fine (yes, there are bugs, but oh well). I just hope they wave their magic developer wands and make the performance ALOT better, doubt I will play past the three months if they dont.
FORGOT: Even with the best cpus, your going to lag ALOT, and i mean ALOT when you first enter the big cities..once everything is loaded up, it is fine.....till you go to the next block.
It's not just you shae, a lot of people can tell the difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS. I definitely can. My system cost me $2000, which is high-end. The fact of the matter is....... unless there is a major leap in graphics quality, there is no reason that a system that can run oblivion SMOOTHLY on max settings can't run Vanguard on lowest settings with a greater framerate. I love the fact that you keep mentioning that your system cost you $2000. The price doesn't make it a top of the line system for an mmo. if your going to state you have a high-end system, then state what you are refering to HIGH-END.
WoW has great graphics in that the graphics are efficient enough to immerse yourself in the world. This is all you need in terms of graphics. They should have made Vanguard where you could change the settings to run like WoW does in terms of playability, while at the same time make it where you can have the high-end stunning graphics which Vanguard fails to deliver. The fact that when I change the trees from beautiful to "flat paper" and there's only a 3 fps difference.....well....that's crappy coding. Kopema said it perfectly. It could make sense for someone to upgrade his system when there is a leap in game graphics technology. But buying new hardware to compensate for lousy coding is just plain stupid.
To say that Vanguard is a poorly done game an still should be in beta shows you dnt know what your talking about, Ive played over 7 mmo's an started most of them on release day, all them have had glitches an errors in them on release its nothen knew an vanguard did a wonderful job fixing alot of the glitch fast, an the graphics compaired to other mmo's are amazing only toped by EQ2 an that game is a zone based game, so Vanguard did amazing by keeping the graphics vary high with out puting zones into the game. An as better computers comes out this game will play alot better, an you dnt really need that much to play it. Vanguard so far is the interesting game ive played in a long time, there is alot to do many classes an your not dealing with a general age group of 10 yr olds like on WoW. So if you enjoy a game with a mass amount of things to do, fun grinding an questing an not needing to hear alot of idiots crying about nothen this is a perfict game!!!!!
whoever said that you can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 is wrong. I can tell the difference. It's only when nothing on screen is moving that you can't. When thing sstart moving you can tell.
You're right and thank you for pointing that out. The us air force did tests where pilots could identify an aircraft from a single frame displayed for 1/220th of a second. With todays video cards, we have verified that the human eye can see beyond 200 frames per second. You can thank the us air force and the video game industry for that one.
To the OP: I could not disagree more with your entire post. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were blatantly lying. No, we probably just have polar opposite opinions of VG or MMOs in general.
You said, "...what angers me the most: A company that FORCES the players to upgrade their machine just to play when the graphics are NOT worth upgrading for."
The graphics and (combat) animations in VG are awesome. Are you new to PC gaming? If not, it should not surprise you that the newest games (just friggin released!) require the newest rigs to fully enjoy. The game lets you turn down everything and even turned down, the game looks awesome.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Comments
I hear this quite a bit. I'm not being smart but what exactly was promised and not delivered?
Also, your obviously going to get better fps in Oblivion, it's a single player game. I will admit there's a little plastic look to the Vanguard character models. I still thought they made EQ2's look more cartoon-like.
Just not worth my time anymore.
whoever said that you can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 is wrong. I can tell the difference.
It's only when nothing on screen is moving that you can't. When thing sstart moving you can tell.
LOL, you are mistaken, FoH wasn't on my server! Funny guy.
FoH are a bunch of NUBS!
I also beat them on some individual achievements despite the fact I have not even half their stats in raw power such as HPs or AC, all of them! So...LOL at FoH NUBsters that leave a game that focus on them and even pay them airplane tickets! ROFL, NUBier than that...hard to do. EQ gives them every edge, and they still manage to lack and complains and they abandon the game in an EMO-way. ROFL.
PS: A few of their ranks aren't nubs, about a group and a half of them. So roughtly, 9 of them in the best case scenario. 4 in the worst, didn't know them that well, just read at their nubishness on the web.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Ronny, bad news bud... you do not have a high end gaming system.
Now here's a high end gaming system, http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/06/dell-xps-600-renegade-supports-quad-graphics/
which Dell recently advertised in PC Gaming for Windows starting at $5600.00.
I paid $3200 for my XPS Laptop 2 years ago and today I'd say two grand buys you a very middle of the road box.
(heck, a single good video card can easily cost you $600.... and many high end boxes are running two of them)
From what I hear, people with "real" high end systems are running at 50+ frames a second.....
Meanwhile, I'm averaging only 11-14 fps on the high performance settings....(and no, it doesn't look like a slide show)
and I enjoy playing the game. Others will too...
Ron boy, stop the crusade.... you like WOW, you hate Vanguard.... if they are not paying you to speak out against Vanguard, then please, give it a rest, OK?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
to the OP...post some specs..cause my 600buck system runs the game beautifully
AMD x2 5000+ (just upgraded)
2gigs ram
200 gig SATA HD 3mbs
ati radeon x1600 pro PCI-E 512meg (upgrading for the sheer fact i dont like the clock speed in the future)
i get around 30 fps in city, 40s in the wild
I've been playing MMO's on a daily basis since the release of UO back in the day. I and my entire group of friends quit WoW and come over to Vanguard upon release.
Yes, the game has bugs that will get fixed.
No, the game is NOT unplayable.
Yes, there is an issue with performance which they have already stated will get fixed.
I love the fact that I am playing a game with my friends finally that takes us back to risk with reward. To monks feign death pulling. to all the things I loved about EQ when I played it for 5 years, and none of the things I hated.
I know there is alot of bashing right now, and the folks that are bashing Vanguard have that right and are justified I guess. I chose rather to commit to it because I really enjoy it and I know it will get better.
I spent $7,800 on an Alienware ALX system on Friday to play Vanguard. Once they get the kinks worked out, you won't need anything near that to play and enjoy this game, but boy am I gonna love it :P
Kwahn
www.dragoncentral.com
Thanks for your biased opinion RonnyRulz, I like plain mushrooms dipped in strawberry jam do you?
There still seem to be some sane people left on this planet.
The human eye can only see 25 FPS or less. It's proven. So it
doesn't matter if you got a crappy computer that run the game at
25 FPS or a mega-computer for $5000 that can handle 100 fps,
you can NOT see more then 25 FPS with your eyes.
[center][color=darkorange][b}Wow! Much gold. So amaze![/b][/color][/center]
I took a page out of Alienware's book for the ALX system and built my own with specs as follows...
EVGA 680i Mobo
Intel QX6700 Quadcore Processor
2x250GB SATA2 in Raid0
2 EVGA Nvidia 8800GTX VCs in SLI (Thats Quad GPUs)
4GB Kensington Ram (which windows only recognizes 2.5 in 32bit do to the massive amount of mem on the Video cards)
The rest doesn't matter.....
Once i was up and running, i maxed out WoW at 60.1 fps (which i'm told is as high as it will go) It doesn't matter if i'm out in the wild by myself or in Lagforge. I get 60.1 with NO changes.
Then... I got Vanguard....
and needless to say WTF...
there are times when my fps will drop to 5. Now before someone says it... Yes WoW isn't a performance hog like Vanguard. But in my opinion, if i'm running the BEST of the BEST i shouldn't be getting as low as 5. Whats the point of releasing a game that will not run smoothly on even the best that technology offers at release?? That's like saying, here is manufacturing a suit that will allow you to walk on Pluto, even though we aren't going there yet.
I dunno... but whatever... I LOVE the game... I just hope they fix this mess quick.
Cheers
Drduplic.
I just noticed you mentioned you have a Raid array in your set up.
There's been a number of mentions on silky venom and the official forums that Raid arrays are killing performance in Vanguard, enough to make a night and day difference when deactivated. Sigil has yet to confirm this, most likely because they want to release a patch before the confirm it as a bug but it seems to be genuine.
Anyways, thought you'd want to know, I'll look to see if I can find the thread for you.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Ooops, here's the thread I was looking at.
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8466&highlight=array
Also, just to clarify for anyone else though. It seems to be fairly specific issues with Raptor and WD Raid, or Asus Arrays.
There is, by the way, an official wordo on the support forums about it now.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Also, I have done alot of test with FPS for many many games and this "I can tell the difference between 30-60fps is rather silly. I'm scientific in nature and trust me judgements based on someones personal feelings or ideas is just not scientific. Test it over and over and over scientifically and then we will see the results. Sometimes when I would get very zoned in playing COD I could detect lag up to 35 frames per second but that wasn't a gut feeling.....I was actually seeing lag. Most of the time the norm is true 30fps is about right for a human or maybe even less.
As for Vanguard I haven't played it but I have played many other MMO's and alot of them have bugs at release. The reason games like Vanguard have more bugs is they are more complicated. People don't mention it but the reason wow didn't have game breaking bugs is they didn't chart new ground. They basically took the low road and toned down the complexity of everything in the game. Yes, I know what i'm talking about at any moment I can log onto 4 level 60+ toons on wow.
actually you can tell the difference between 30 and 60 because the frame rate is variable.
if your constantly around 30 you will rise and fall around that number, say 20-40 and it will be noticable as you go below 30. On the other side at 60 you never spike below 50 so you can actually see the net effect between the two. ( 60 fps always looks good, 30 fps will have slowdowns as your the load spikes. )
I think a lot of people have a hard time understanding what it means.
You can't see each individual frame rendering before you at 60 fps.
It doesn't matter what you think you are seeing your eye and brain do not distinguish between a "constant" 30 fps or a "constant" 60 fps. The only reason you "think" you notice a dif. is because the numbers counting your framerate on your screen move, and when they drop to 30 you suddenly think omg somethings wrong. Nothings wrong, if you can get a steady 30 fps your doing good. If you can get 60 even better because you wont notice a change if it does drop to 30. However, if your like me and you are doing good at 30 and it drops to 15 then there is a significant dif, because your eye can "almost" make out each from as they move in front of you. If you could tell the dif you wouldn't be running the FPS indicator, you would be able to sit and count each frame as they ticked off in front of you.
The 60 mark is the benchmark they use to determine the processing power of a vid card because if you could mantain 30 fps at highest quality settings with a particular card it would be useless in things like video edtiting, and a lot of modern Gfx cards are needed to do multiple tasks, not just make your games look pretty.
I don't even think most games are coded with 60 fps worth of animation; wich in itself would disprove anyone who thinks they see the dif. I think.
I like the game alot, and I will play at least until my CE subscription runs out. Although the poster may not have said it in the best way...this game really FAR FAR too hardware intensive. My computer isnt the best, but i would rate it about average, maybe slightly higher (not average GAMER, just average persons cpu)[P4 3.4, 2 gig RAM, Radeon 1950 pro]. I have done all the tweaks I could find, turn settings down as much as I could tolerate (highest performance is fugging ugly, shouldnt even be an option) and I get decent FPS (town 15-25, wild 50+) but the game still stutters. If I group and go somewhere with alot of mobs, forget about it, lots of lag...
If I were wiling to shell out thousands for a new CPU this game would look and play amazingly. Vanguard has huge potential, and I think it is fine (yes, there are bugs, but oh well). I just hope they wave their magic developer wands and make the performance ALOT better, doubt I will play past the three months if they dont.
FORGOT: Even with the best cpus, your going to lag ALOT, and i mean ALOT when you first enter the big cities..once everything is loaded up, it is fine.....till you go to the next block.
You spent $2000 on a machine and are only getting 35fps max?
Hell on balanced tweaked i get about 120fps
On max everything about 70fps and i spent a little less thant you did on a machine, about 200 bucks less.
Lost me. They are not cartoony. And also admitting you're trolling, pathetic. You sir are a disgrace to the online community. Good day.
I said good day!
You're right and thank you for pointing that out. The us air force did tests where pilots could identify an aircraft from a single frame displayed for 1/220th of a second. With todays video cards, we have verified that the human eye can see beyond 200 frames per second. You can thank the us air force and the video game industry for that one.
To the OP: I could not disagree more with your entire post. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were blatantly lying. No, we probably just have polar opposite opinions of VG or MMOs in general.
You said, "...what angers me the most: A company that FORCES the players to upgrade their machine just to play when the graphics are NOT worth upgrading for."
The graphics and (combat) animations in VG are awesome. Are you new to PC gaming? If not, it should not surprise you that the newest games (just friggin released!) require the newest rigs to fully enjoy. The game lets you turn down everything and even turned down, the game looks awesome.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit