ROFL at the OP. That's all I'm gonna say. I'd worry about racism coming from MUCH MORE SUBSTANTIAL PLACES THAN MMOs (like family and friends).
ROFL right back at ya. The purpose of this thread is not to end racism by banning a videogame or all videogames. I'm sorry you misunderstood the limits of my powers.
The purpose of this thread is to make people think about how RL morals are often poorly reflected in MMOs, and how we usually don't realize it when it's happening. Of course, the title of the post was possibly inflammatory as it is often echoed in the "News". Still, one thing it has pointed out is that people care more about the headline than reading the content.
Play the very first warcraft game to the 3rd, go read the lore on the websites, and read the warcraft books. Then start playing world of warcraft. When your playing wow actually read the quests to figure out more lore.
WOW continues the story its not a new entity of the warcraft games because it went mmo, the lore keeps growing and there might not another warcraft game after this one. After you do all that youll understand why your orc cannot be on the horde and so on.
Your probably used to games like ffxi, this is a different enitnity to the rest of the ff games and its lore is not based on previous ff games save the trademarks of all ff games like cid, the chocobo and so on but its lore has nothing to do with the rest. This game allows you to change factions at any time however the story is the same for all factions once you hit rank 3.
theres no racisim in wow, ive never been rejected a group because of the race i chose or denied admitance to a guild.
so seriously study the lore behind warcraft.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
ROFL at the OP. That's all I'm gonna say. I'd worry about racism coming from MUCH MORE SUBSTANTIAL PLACES THAN MMOs (like family and friends).
ROFL right back at ya. The purpose of this thread is not to end racism by banning a videogame or all videogames. I'm sorry you misunderstood the limits of my powers.
The purpose of this thread is to make people think about how RL morals are often poorly reflected in MMOs, and how we usually don't realize it when it's happening. Of course, the title of the post was possibly inflammatory as it is often echoed in the "News". Still, one thing it has pointed out is that people care more about the headline than reading the content.
I serously dont know what your point is. all i know is the lore behind warcraft is a fantasy game based on a fantasy setting and its lore is in now way based on how rl is. your looking for somthing thats not.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Play the very first warcraft game to the 3rd, go read the lore on the websites, and read the warcraft books. Then start playing world of warcraft. When your playing wow actually read the quests to figure out more lore.
WOW continues the story its not a new entity of the warcraft games because it went mmo, the lore keeps growing and there might not another warcraft game after this one. After you do all that youll understand why your orc cannot be on the horde and so on.
Your probably used to games like ffxi, this is a different enitnity to the rest of the ff games and its lore is not based on previous ff games save the trademarks of all ff games like cid, the chocobo and so on but its lore has nothing to do with the rest. This game allows you to change factions at any time however the story is the same for all factions once you hit rank 3.
theres no racisim in wow, ive never been rejected a group because of the race i chose or denied admitance to a guild.
so seriously study the lore behind warcraft.
Sigh..okay, one more time.
I AM familiar with the lore of Warcraft. I know that it is varied, rich, and full of politics. I KNOW THAT IT IS NOT A GAME SOLELY PLAYED BY RACISTS.
This is a discussion about game design arbitrarily enforcing a potentially immoral concept, granted I'm sure this was not done intentionally. It was merely a side effect of simplistic game mechanics.
third- There are horde on allience and im not sure but i think theres some allience on the horde. You didnt seem to play that long from what i see. It basicly comes down to baliefs really. Also i dont think a human would want an undead on there side considering that they turned there capitol city into a living hell hole.
WOW, these things have been the same way since the dawn of MMOs. The only diff is there isn't a big war against them. Races cuolding't go here or there or they would get killed. So i guess thats telling you that there are many places people can't go HUH
At first glance I always figured that its no big deal the way they turn players against each other... But if you have ever played WoW, its just ridiculous. People ACTUALLY THINK that the enemy faction are all foolish, that something is actually wrong with them, that they are actually less mature or less able than their own faction. This is one of the biggest reasons why I had trouble enjoying WoW. Just the way people behave concerning the opposing faction, its terrible. Players are always saying how the enemy faction are dishonorable and lame for ganking, teaming up on them, ect... Then those same players turn around and do it to them! If you ask them why they gank the enemy, they are just like 'oh its only bad when they gank us, its okay to do it to them because they are jerks'... It is really frustrating. I think it steams mainly from the lack of communication.... They dont let horde and alliance chat at all, and it just makes people act less honorably. Its like the internetx2: People know they can get away with bad things online so they are more likely to do those bad things... Well in WoW, no one can get mad at you for behaving rudely/dishonorably because whenever they type something to you it comes out as gibberish. So does this teach kids racism? Well, I dont think it necessarily teaches them racism. It does encourage them to hate others though, and teaches them that its okay to treat others however you please as long as youre more powerful than them... Not exactly the greatest lessons. I think if factions could communicate people would treat each other with a bit more dignity.
Well acually its not that they trully beleive that the other fraction is bad its just that there roleplaying(intencly). I used to do it all the time in that game. Now when it comes down to imaturity then yes there tends to be a little of that. The horde along with the allience them selfs tend to think the allience has somewhat less mature crowd do to the fact that the allience side seems a little more kiddish(Gnomes, dwarfs, creatures, enviroment.)
ok, lets just define the age of the character when you join the game, your just out of childhood/teenager years, your comming into a world full of hate etc, you've only known of the horde or the alliance as your salvation/home/friends/enamies your entire life. Once you begin to take the first steps outside of your lil homeland your pride is with your races allegiance and so must follow your cause...
You begin with a character, who's race determines their allegence because to all other fact, they are no brainer shells that have been told who is good and bad all their life. (See the connection with normal kids) Once you grow up you start to change, but at the beginning your character only knows (in an orc case) Horde = good, Alliance = bad vice versa for alliance races.
Undermining Racist morals, yeah but ONLY if you pay attention to it, but then almost EVERY single fantasy novel which has a war occuring in it is racist, so is science fiction novels etc etc. the point. Only someone who conciders racism to impact SO much on their current life will see it, kids arn't complete shells anymore, and they dont pay attention to the racial standings, they pay attention to wahat they like. BTW how would the racist under tone of WoW interfere with RL? How would you determine who is black/white/asian/muslim/etc? you can't cause anyone can be anyone
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Well, this is by far one of the more amusing threads I have read on this forum to date.
At the end of the day though, there are always factions, there are always races associated with that faction, that will war, and that will be partial to their kind. I highly doubt that Thrall has received the Idiots guide to being Politically Correct, and I highly doubt you will see the Alliance taking Orc sensitivity training.
As far as this game forcing any beliefs or making people feel a certain way about things, I think that’s hogwash. I think when it comes to a point where a game influences how you think and believe in real life society, then it may be time to step away from the computer and enter the realm of the "mundane". I understand how games can be used to escape a crappy reality, but they aren't reality, and as much as I see the point you are trying to prove, I just can't see comparing a video game and its imaginary world with imaginary lore and imaginary characters to real life issues, such as racism.
Ultimately, it’s separating reality from fiction, and not trying to mesh the two. That’s like trying to say Dungeons and Dragons influences Satanism... just makes no sense... and those who try to cross the two have no grasp of the difference between a game and reality. It’s the responsibility of the person to understand that difference, not the responsibility of the game to make itself P.C. to try to teach how not to be racist, or prejudice.
Then again, if a game is teaching you real life values, instead of your parents, then we have another discussion on that for another time.
Sure it's been done in every game and fantasy novel since man learned to write. It doesn't make my point any less valid.
Let's put it another way, is such a model really necessary? Blizzard could just as easily broken down the factions into strictly political ideaology, allowing any race to be part of any faction. Wouldn't that be more engaging? Aren't people clamoring for changes that break the stereotypical MMO mold?
At the very least I would find it more interesting.
Does Warcraft work like that? I don't know, I'm asking. I played Starcraft (where going completely with factions kind of makes sense because each race has internal divisions, most of all in Brood War). At any rate, if Warcraft works along the racial lines, expecting WoW to be purely faction based it pretty absurd. It'd be totally inconsistent.
Also, Anarchy Online already does that. There are four races and three factions. You choose your race and pick any of the three factions later on. It wouldn't exactly be earth-shaking.
The point of World of Warcraft's faction split is to socialize people into two groups and thus create tension. That's why many horde players think ill of their alliance counterparts and vice versa. Is this horrible? No, not really. It really does work as a game mechanic.
That aside, you must admit that race does reflect ideology to a great extent. That's doubly true when you have two sides galvanized against each other by conflict. You think it would be more interesting if you could pick whatever side you wanted. That wouldn't make sense without rewriting the theme, though. Do you think the humans would allow orcs to intermingle with them freely after fighting so bitterly with them for so many years? The point is that racial distrust exists. Even if you sympathized with the humans as an orc, they probably wouldn't take you.
Even so, World of Warcraft really does not make it black and white. Some NPC's tell you that the opposite faction is terrible, but the real impressions are what you see in the game world. Night Elf players might think the orcs are assholes after they get far enough through the zones to see them clearing their pretty magical forest for lumber. Then again, the orcs need to get resources somewhere, and their lands are pretty much barren wasteland. By the same token, there are human groups which might be considered evil, well-intentioned but overzealous, or insane, all depending on your perspective. I don't see any broad strokes painted by the game.
Okay, so it's a bit inconceivable that playing WoW will turn you into a skinhead. But if you look at the gameplay mechanics, there is definately racism there. Orcs, Trolls, Undead, and Tauren are evil if you're with the Alliance. Humans, Dwarves, Elves, and Gnomes are evil if you're with the Horde. Good and evil is being determined by race, not by values. You have to admit that's pretty racist. I don't even have the option of playing an Orc that agrees with and supports the alliance's aims. If I did I would be a "traitor to the species" (sound familiar?). Of course, if WoW did let species intermingle they might just end up with World of Peacecraft.
I think you understand nothing about WoW lore..nothing at all. Read up a little bit and educate yourself. The hate had nothing to do with race. It had everything to do with actions.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
Games will forever have evil and good. If you don't like it stop playing them or make an MMORPG where everyone is peaceful. That would be bull crap. Who wants peace? The answer is no one! What the hell is wrong with you? Why do you look at the negative (only negative in your own opinion btw ). In other words., WoW is that way because people like it. 1 out of 8 million people doesn't really matter. Get over it; you don't matter.
This whole notion is totally rediculous. First things first.... IT'S A FREAKING GAME!!!!! That said..
WoW has gone to great lengths to create two opposing factions without designating either one as evil. The only true evil ones are the scourge which nobody can play.
As far as real life racism, I have never heard anyone of any ethnic descent called a stupid orc. I mean, get real people. Have we gotton so politically correct that we can't even have good -vs- evil struggles in computer games? I guess some posters would rather kids be out shooting rival gang members or beating each other up after school and selling/using drugs than calling taurans names.
Next thing you know people are gonna want half the lore taken out of games because it could suggest religious themes, God forbid.. pun intended...
Now excuse me while I go subjugate an orc...
Oh almost forgot. Sounds like the OP is intolerant of people who shave their heads and thinks every white person with a shaved head is a racist...
Comments
ROFL right back at ya. The purpose of this thread is not to end racism by banning a videogame or all videogames. I'm sorry you misunderstood the limits of my powers.
The purpose of this thread is to make people think about how RL morals are often poorly reflected in MMOs, and how we usually don't realize it when it's happening. Of course, the title of the post was possibly inflammatory as it is often echoed in the "News". Still, one thing it has pointed out is that people care more about the headline than reading the content.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Play the very first warcraft game to the 3rd, go read the lore on the websites, and read the warcraft books. Then start playing world of warcraft. When your playing wow actually read the quests to figure out more lore.
WOW continues the story its not a new entity of the warcraft games because it went mmo, the lore keeps growing and there might not another warcraft game after this one. After you do all that youll understand why your orc cannot be on the horde and so on.
Your probably used to games like ffxi, this is a different enitnity to the rest of the ff games and its lore is not based on previous ff games save the trademarks of all ff games like cid, the chocobo and so on but its lore has nothing to do with the rest. This game allows you to change factions at any time however the story is the same for all factions once you hit rank 3.
theres no racisim in wow, ive never been rejected a group because of the race i chose or denied admitance to a guild.
so seriously study the lore behind warcraft.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
ROFL right back at ya. The purpose of this thread is not to end racism by banning a videogame or all videogames. I'm sorry you misunderstood the limits of my powers.
The purpose of this thread is to make people think about how RL morals are often poorly reflected in MMOs, and how we usually don't realize it when it's happening. Of course, the title of the post was possibly inflammatory as it is often echoed in the "News". Still, one thing it has pointed out is that people care more about the headline than reading the content.
I serously dont know what your point is. all i know is the lore behind warcraft is a fantasy game based on a fantasy setting and its lore is in now way based on how rl is. your looking for somthing thats not.Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Sigh..okay, one more time.
I AM familiar with the lore of Warcraft. I know that it is varied, rich, and full of politics. I KNOW THAT IT IS NOT A GAME SOLELY PLAYED BY RACISTS.
This is a discussion about game design arbitrarily enforcing a potentially immoral concept, granted I'm sure this was not done intentionally. It was merely a side effect of simplistic game mechanics.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
First off- LMAO
second- Its a game
third- There are horde on allience and im not sure but i think theres some allience on the horde. You didnt seem to play that long from what i see. It basicly comes down to baliefs really. Also i dont think a human would want an undead on there side considering that they turned there capitol city into a living hell hole.
WOW, these things have been the same way since the dawn of MMOs. The only diff is there isn't a big war against them. Races cuolding't go here or there or they would get killed. So i guess thats telling you that there are many places people can't go HUH
You begin with a character, who's race determines their allegence because to all other fact, they are no brainer shells that have been told who is good and bad all their life. (See the connection with normal kids) Once you grow up you start to change, but at the beginning your character only knows (in an orc case) Horde = good, Alliance = bad vice versa for alliance races.
Undermining Racist morals, yeah but ONLY if you pay attention to it, but then almost EVERY single fantasy novel which has a war occuring in it is racist, so is science fiction novels etc etc. the point. Only someone who conciders racism to impact SO much on their current life will see it, kids arn't complete shells anymore, and they dont pay attention to the racial standings, they pay attention to wahat they like. BTW how would the racist under tone of WoW interfere with RL? How would you determine who is black/white/asian/muslim/etc? you can't cause anyone can be anyone
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Well, this is by far one of the more amusing threads I have read on this forum to date.
At the end of the day though, there are always factions, there are always races associated with that faction, that will war, and that will be partial to their kind. I highly doubt that Thrall has received the Idiots guide to being Politically Correct, and I highly doubt you will see the Alliance taking Orc sensitivity training.
As far as this game forcing any beliefs or making people feel a certain way about things, I think that’s hogwash. I think when it comes to a point where a game influences how you think and believe in real life society, then it may be time to step away from the computer and enter the realm of the "mundane". I understand how games can be used to escape a crappy reality, but they aren't reality, and as much as I see the point you are trying to prove, I just can't see comparing a video game and its imaginary world with imaginary lore and imaginary characters to real life issues, such as racism.
Ultimately, it’s separating reality from fiction, and not trying to mesh the two. That’s like trying to say Dungeons and Dragons influences Satanism... just makes no sense... and those who try to cross the two have no grasp of the difference between a game and reality. It’s the responsibility of the person to understand that difference, not the responsibility of the game to make itself P.C. to try to teach how not to be racist, or prejudice.
Then again, if a game is teaching you real life values, instead of your parents, then we have another discussion on that for another time.
Sure it's been done in every game and fantasy novel since man learned to write. It doesn't make my point any less valid.
Let's put it another way, is such a model really necessary? Blizzard could just as easily broken down the factions into strictly political ideaology, allowing any race to be part of any faction. Wouldn't that be more engaging? Aren't people clamoring for changes that break the stereotypical MMO mold?
At the very least I would find it more interesting.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Does Warcraft work like that? I don't know, I'm asking. I played Starcraft (where going completely with factions kind of makes sense because each race has internal divisions, most of all in Brood War). At any rate, if Warcraft works along the racial lines, expecting WoW to be purely faction based it pretty absurd. It'd be totally inconsistent.
Also, Anarchy Online already does that. There are four races and three factions. You choose your race and pick any of the three factions later on. It wouldn't exactly be earth-shaking.
The point of World of Warcraft's faction split is to socialize people into two groups and thus create tension. That's why many horde players think ill of their alliance counterparts and vice versa. Is this horrible? No, not really. It really does work as a game mechanic.
That aside, you must admit that race does reflect ideology to a great extent. That's doubly true when you have two sides galvanized against each other by conflict. You think it would be more interesting if you could pick whatever side you wanted. That wouldn't make sense without rewriting the theme, though. Do you think the humans would allow orcs to intermingle with them freely after fighting so bitterly with them for so many years? The point is that racial distrust exists. Even if you sympathized with the humans as an orc, they probably wouldn't take you.
Even so, World of Warcraft really does not make it black and white. Some NPC's tell you that the opposite faction is terrible, but the real impressions are what you see in the game world. Night Elf players might think the orcs are assholes after they get far enough through the zones to see them clearing their pretty magical forest for lumber. Then again, the orcs need to get resources somewhere, and their lands are pretty much barren wasteland. By the same token, there are human groups which might be considered evil, well-intentioned but overzealous, or insane, all depending on your perspective. I don't see any broad strokes painted by the game.
I think you understand nothing about WoW lore..nothing at all. Read up a little bit and educate yourself. The hate had nothing to do with race. It had everything to do with actions.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
To paraphrase the Bard of Avon.....
I think yon Vinzent thinks too much.
WoW has gone to great lengths to create two opposing factions without designating either one as evil. The only true evil ones are the scourge which nobody can play.
As far as real life racism, I have never heard anyone of any ethnic descent called a stupid orc. I mean, get real people. Have we gotton so politically correct that we can't even have good -vs- evil struggles in computer games? I guess some posters would rather kids be out shooting rival gang members or beating each other up after school and selling/using drugs than calling taurans names.
Next thing you know people are gonna want half the lore taken out of games because it could suggest religious themes, God forbid.. pun intended...
Now excuse me while I go subjugate an orc...
Oh almost forgot. Sounds like the OP is intolerant of people who shave their heads and thinks every white person with a shaved head is a racist...
Lord have mercy.
D&D told us that Goblins and Kobolds are evil. RACISM!
I was more or less referring to alliance humans me being an orc and all when i did play.
Then again it did start to make me hate people period.
"Hi u gib me rarez?"
But that'd then take my chance to win that award for my up and comming thread-
"MMO's is WoW the only one?"
or even
"MMO's do they make you commit beastiality?"
HAHAHA Game, set, match JackDonkey with a three pointer at the buzzer!!!!!