Why some of us still play

kobie173 · February 2007

2+ year vet of SWG (started in Dec. 04), so yeah, I played the pre-CU, CU and NGE versions of the game. This is not in response to any thread in particular, just a general message to some of the players on these boards who feel the need to lump all those who still play into the "10-year-old NGE fanboi crowd."

Those of us from the old days who still play miss pre-CU just as much as everyone here, bugs and all. I know I do, as does everyone I talk with. The CU was tolerable, though it didn't have the richness and complexity of pre-CU.

However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.

But until that day comes, this is all we got. We're not all pre-teens who "want everything handed to us" or any of that shit.

I thoroughly expect this post to be flamed to hell; however, I read this forum quite a bit and felt the need to chime in. I am no NGE apologist like some of the folks in here -- just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.

It's Star Wars. That's why we still play, pure and simple.

LakeDaemon · February 2007

/agree

Whats lame are the people here who say they're not going back until they see more people go back. LOL Those are cowards. Or say they are "so done with SWG", call it crap, etc.. but they are STILL bitching about it over a year after leaving the game due to the NGE. They say "let it die" but post and troll here. And they call players 10 year olds.. funny

Face it, people. If you are still bitching about SWG not dying yet you need to let it die for yourself and find another hobby. You act all offended as if current players are "scabs" trying to take your jobs at the plant. GOD forbid someone else actually like the game. LOL You cant stand that or have to bust on it.

I really hope the EMU works out for you but , statistically, it wont survive if it ever comes up in alpha stage at all. How many fan servers actually work out in any game...05%!?! If you think it will suddenly be exactly like the old days you are deluded. Enjoy the grind fest, no support, no real uprades or added content.

In the end , SWG will prosper as content and features are added over time. All the players will look back and consider anything pre nge as SWGs beta-like game rolled out too early. The NGE (and you) will be just an ugly pot hole in the road. It may never have 300k or even 150K again but, frankly, if it means tha some of you whiners arent there, it will be a better game.

kobie173 · February 2007

Well, I wasn't going to go there, because I don't feel that way. Just as the people who still play shouldn't be slandered, neither should those who choose NOT to play anymore, regardless of their internet posting habits.

I will never say "well, thank god the whiners are gone," because I'd love to see the game return to the point where we could get some vets back. However, I'm not counting my chickens.

LakeDaemon · February 2007

Im not talking to (or about) the people who just simply left because they didnt like the game. Im pointing to the people who want miracles but dont want to do their part and those who took SOEs business decision too personally, wont get over it, and bash others who dont agree with them. All the others I have no problem with. I support those who lost so much and or those who moved on but like to post their critique here.

Salvatoris · February 2007

Not flaming you for your decisions... but does it occur to you, that they take your continued subscription fees as an endorsement of the changes they made to the game? They said we should "speak with our feet", and some of us have. I don't take it personally that they ruined the game, or that they have the absolute worst customer care philosophy I have ever seen, but the most effective way I can show my displeasure is to quit sending them my money. I can only hope enough people agree with me and take the same action, that we get our point across. Prom my perspective, the people who hate the changes, but continue to pay are part of the problem.... I'm just sayin

Dvol · February 2007

Originally posted by kobie173

2+ year vet of SWG (started in Dec. 04), so yeah, I played the pre-CU, CU and NGE versions of the game. This is not in response to any thread in particular, just a general message to some of the players on these boards who feel the need to lump all those who still play into the "10-year-old NGE fanboi crowd."
Those of us from the old days who still play miss pre-CU just as much as everyone here, bugs and all. I know I do, as does everyone I talk with. The CU was tolerable, though it didn't have the richness and complexity of pre-CU.
However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.
But until that day comes, this is all we got. We're not all pre-teens who "want everything handed to us" or any of that shit.
I thoroughly expect this post to be flamed to hell; however, I read this forum quite a bit and felt the need to chime in. I am no NGE apologist like some of the folks in here -- just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.
It's Star Wars. That's why we still play, pure and simple.

Yeah you started in 04...the game was different in 04 than it was in 03.i am a 3 year vet who stuck around off and on after the New Garbage Enhancements.But.Alot had been nerfed changed and fixed prior to the CU and NGE some good some real bad but not like the CU and NGE..So just because you enjoy the NGE or tolerate it alot of us cant stomach it..In my case i actually enjoy shooters i have them all..But i found the NGE to be a terrible wanna be shooter with bad gameplay..But is my opinion and its similar to 300k others that dont play any more..

its not that i hate SWG its just it isnt fun anymore, and it plays horrible...Everything from the Saturday morning cartoon effects to the lame attempt to make combat fast paced..SWG is now a Hybrid of a Hybrid, it tries to be WoW and a bad copy of battlefront.All the RPG elements have been removed. If i want to play a SW shooter ill boot up battlefront which controls 100 times better..Simple i want SWGRPG as it should be not some attempt at being WoW in space..

SWGPRECU gave you the choice to do what you the player chose to do..You could craft Pve things solo grouped or fly around in a spaceship..There were tons of things to do or not do that was your choice..Now you get to chose if your Talents and loot your nice armor..Taking the game to a state were its just plain boring and nothing works half the time..Its sad that they added Holo players cause no one is being part of the band anymore..

Sad thing is they were wrong in the changes and i dont think anything they can do will make it rise up from the ashes..Sad considering the game never needed the CORE changed..Just the bugs fixed and content added..the game wasnt perfect in any form but its so bad now i honestly can't bring myself to stay logged in..But kudos for those that can and still enjoy it but we all can agree its not going to repopulate unless they bring back a more RPG and classic version..Of course this is just my opinion..

skulldron · February 2007

What amazes me is that you two fanbois continue to post here , one talks about well there is no other SW MMO out there so I will give SOE any cash to simply wave a lightsaber around and walk around empty servers or to hang out with the NPCs. NGE'ers whom come here and still feel the urge to put down other vets whom simply have other views and do not care for the kiddie land known as the NGE.

Now you have a NGE'er whom keeps calling people cowards while hiding behind a monitor, listen here junior, calling people cowards because they dont share your gods views is down right moronic. You sir are the coward, you constantly post here how people are cowards because they dont bend over and get rammed in their rear ends by SOE like you folks do. Hell I was a beta tester, been with SWG since launch, seen Pre-CU, CU and the NGE. Now while I dont give a big crap about NGE or the players there , I will say this, I dont go to the Current players forum and flame the NGE'ers since its their Elmo in ABC land game, but I do take offense when people come to this forum , boast how better they are and constantly call people cowards while hiding behind a monitor. Does it make you feel really proud or big and Uber that your calling people cowards? Have you served your country? Have you lived outside the NGE? To keep calling people cowards because they dont like the NGE and to boast that your better or that the NGE'ers are better than the Vets makes me wonder about the playerbase SOE has chosen and its that attitude that keeps me away from the NGE.

I read theses forums and others SW related sites to keep up to date on possible other SW MMOs and to see the latest info on other MMOs in this site. But to come to this forum and see nothing but NGE'ers post and post and boast about the NGE and putting former players down because they are not jumping all over SOE, Smed, NGE or whatever Dev posts something "Iconic and Star Warsy" proves my point, the NGE is a kiddie land , now I know there are vets whom are smart asses and deserve to get flamed but when someone replies to your "Coward" posts and asks for facts about screenshots of servers or real facts about population booms, you folks come here and flame away. You claim we whine and cry , well folks, so do you. Its a two way lane. I was a NYPD Officer for 8 years, left that to run my own business and I dont go to people and claim they are cowards for having opposite opinions, we will debate it and hear both sides and move on. But you NGE'ers come here posting that everything is all sunny and fine in the NGE forecasts, when its not. Truth be known, the NGE was a bad concept, made to lure in a simple playerbase that was WoW Crazy, the NGE is very simple game, having played it myself, I was bored after an hour. I did the restuss faction grind, I did PVP and saw no one from my old buddy list or from my old guild, my city was dead and everyone was either jumping like kids in a party over a new toy (AT-RT) , now correct me if I am wrong but when was a AT-RT ever in the Empire strikes back timeline? Or Clone trooper Armor? or tons of jedi running around? My toon is a elder jedi (Having earned it thru holocron grinding) and leveled it up to 90 , done all the quests, done base raidings, PVPs and events. Now what I saw in the NGE was a shell of a game, barely holding onto kids attention spans and thinking of things to do, SOE knows they screwed up, everyone knows they screwed up and people have moved on to other things, same thing with me, I moved on to other games, I watch the emu folks and work on my own server for the hell of it, but I wont pay dime to play a half ass game geared to making things easy, which is the NGE.

Now if you like your game, fine , go play it. To each his own, but dont come here posting that people whom dont share your views are cowards or mentally challenged because when its all said and done, you are showing off your mentality and showing everyone the type of playerbase SOE has asked for. If the game is that great, why do you folks keep posting here in this forum either asking or begging people to rejoin? I said it before and I will say it again, "What goes around comes around" when SOE feels they need to pull more numbers and make a grab for more money, they will sacrifice you folks for another breed of playerbase and leave you lumping around forums complaining. SOE says no they wont do it, but what do they really say behind closed doors?

Think on that NGE'ers..........Thank you

kobie173 · February 2007

Originally posted by skulldron

What amazes me is that you two fanbois continue to post here , one talks about well there is no other SW MMO out there so I will give SOE any cash to simply wave a lightsaber around and walk around empty servers or to hang out with the other NGE'ers whom come here and still feel the urge to put down other vets whom simply have other views and do not care for the kiddie land known as the NGE.
Now you have a NGE'er whom keeps calling people cowards while hiding behind a monitor, listen here junior, calling people cowards because they dont share your gods views is downright moronic. You sir are the coward, you constantly post here how people are cowards because they dont bend over and it things rammed in their rear ends like you do. Hell I was a beta tester, been with SWG since launch, seen Pre-CU, CU and the NGE. Now while I dont give a big crap about NGE or the players there , I will say this, I dont go to the Current players forum and flame the NGE'ers since its their Elmo in ABC land game, but I do take offense when people come to this forum , boast how better they are and constantly call people cowards while hiding behind a monitor. Does it make you feel really proud or big and Uber that your calling people cowards? Have you served your country? Have you lived outside the NGE? To keep calling people cowards because they dont like the NGE and to boast that your better or that the NGE'ers are better than the Vets makes me wonder about the playerbase SOE has chosen and its that attitude that keeps me away from the NGE.
I read theses forums and others SW related to keep up to date on possible other SW MMOs and to see the latest info on other MMOs in this site. But to come to this forum and see nothing but NGE'ers post and post and boast about the NGE and putting former players down because they are not jumping all over SOE, Smed, NGE or whatever Dev posts something "Iconic and Star Warsy" proves my point, the NGE is a kiddie land , now I know there are vets whom are smart asses and deserve to get flamed but when someone replies to your "Coward" posts and asks for facts about screenshots of servers or real facts about population booms, you folks come here and flame away. You claim we whine and cry , well folks, so do you. Its a two way lane. I was a NYPD Officer for 8 years, left that to run my own business and I dont go to people and claim they are cowards for having opposite opinions, we will debate it and hear both sides and move on. But you NGE'ers come here posting that everything is all sunny and fine in the NGE forecasts, when its not. Truth be known, the NGE was a bad concept, made to lure in a simple playerbase that was WoW Crazy, the NGE is very simple, having played it myself, I was bored after an hour. I did the restuss faction grind, I did PVP and saw no one from my old buddy list or old guild, my city was dead and everyone was either jumping like kids in a party over a new toy (AT-RT) , now correct me if I am wrong but when was a AT-RT ever in the Empire strikes back timeline? Or Clone trooper Armor? or tons of jedi running around? My toon is a elder jedi (Having earned it thru holocron grinding) and leveled it up to 90 , done all the quests, done base raidings, PVPs and events. Now what I saw in the NGE was a shell of a game, barely holding onto kids attention spans and thinking of things to do, SOE knows they screwed up, everyone knows they screwed up and people have moved on to other things, same thing with me, I moved on to other games, watch the emu and work on my own server for the hell of it, but I wont pay dime to play a half ass game geared to making things easy.
Now if you like your game, fine , go play it. To each his own, but dont come here posting that people whom dont share your views are cowards or mentally challenged because when its all said and done, you are showing off your mentality and showing everyone the type of playerbase SOE has asked for. If the game is that great, why do you folks keep posting here in this forum either asking or begging people to rejoin? I said it before and I will say it again, "What goes around comes around" when SOE feels they need to pull more numbers and make a grab for more money, they will sacrifice you folks for another breed of playerbase and leave you lumping around forums complaining. SOE says no they wont do it, but what do they really say behind closed doors?
Think on that NGE'ers..........Thank you

No, thank you. For completely misrepresenting my post.

1. I don't 100 percent share your opinion of SWG as it stands right now, so I must fall into the "fanboi" category. Cool.

2. I want to wave a lightsaber around. Ahhh ... so you don't know me or anything about me, but presume that I am a Jedi in the NGE. Sweet. (NOTE: I do have one Jedi character. He is CL 46. And I've had that character for about 6-8 months, so it shows how often I play him).

3. Find when I've ever posted anything in this forum. EVER. I've probably posted twice in the MMORPG forums EVER.

Find someone who isn't screaming for Smedley's head on a fuckin pike, and you blitz them for being a "fanboi." It's people like you who make me want to retch sometimes.

skulldron · February 2007

Then answer me this junior, why do you folks post in an Anti-NGE forum? thats a simple question that makes me wonder, if the NGE is such a success why continue to post on theses forums, when you have your own one? Need to rub salt in former players wounds? hmm?

Now while I do have a distaste for SOE for their business decision, I for one am not asking for Smeds head on a platter, he made a business decision and it crashed and burned, 300k+ subscribers down to 10k subscribers must prove something. Sure Pre-cu had people leaving but more were joining, WoW hit the scene and SOE went for the numbers and lost. again 300k+ down to 10k is something. Now while I at times also miss a SW MMO game, I wouldnt go to the NGE but wait it out for something better. Now again, if you feel the game is that great, post in the current forums where your view will be taken in as gold and no one would oppose your views, here in this Veteran Refuge you will be met with opposite opinions , like or not, people here dont like the NGE, dont really like the NGE'ers whom have attitudes. You folks have your game for now, enjoy it and hopefully SOE wont thru a wrench in your works.

kobie173 · February 2007

Find me on the main SWG forum page where it says that this is explicitly an "anti-NGE" board?

I came here for a reason, and I am sorely regretting it. Some of you assholes just can't see past your own monitor.

dirtyd77 · February 2007

Originally posted by skulldron

Then answer me this junior, why do you folks post in an Anti-NGE forum? thats a simple question that makes me wonder, if the NGE is such a success why continue to post on theses forums, when you have your own one? Need to rub salt in former players wounds? hmm?

Well maybe because you guys post in the current players forum. So what does it matter where we post. Disgrunteled vets will show up anywhere and everywhere they can and flame and name call and try to degrade anyone who doesnt share the same exact opinion as them.

So if people who play the game try to have a discussion in OUR forum you guys always show and ruin it...

Just an observation!

kobie173 · February 2007

Plus, the forum description says this board is for "disgruntled former AND CURRENT" players.

Am I disgruntled? You're goddamn right I am.

I came here trying to give a fresh perspective on WHY some veterans of pre-CU and the CU still play the game, and that we're not all bootlicking Smedley fanbois. But nothing, apparently, will change some people's outlook.

WisebutCruel · February 2007

Originally posted by dirtyd77
So if people who play the game try to have a discussion in OUR forum you guys always show and ruin it...
Just an observation!

And a very valid observation, I might add.

haxxjoo · February 2007

Originally posted by kobie173

2+ year vet of SWG (started in Dec. 04), so yeah, I played the pre-CU, CU and NGE versions of the game. This is not in response to any thread in particular, just a general message to some of the players on these boards who feel the need to lump all those who still play into the "10-year-old NGE fanboi crowd."
Those of us from the old days who still play miss pre-CU just as much as everyone here, bugs and all. I know I do, as does everyone I talk with. The CU was tolerable, though it didn't have the richness and complexity of pre-CU.
However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.
But until that day comes, this is all we got. We're not all pre-teens who "want everything handed to us" or any of that shit.
I thoroughly expect this post to be flamed to hell; however, I read this forum quite a bit and felt the need to chime in. I am no NGE apologist like some of the folks in here -- just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.
It's Star Wars. That's why we still play, pure and simple.

fine but just know 2 solid facts. If you stood with us and cancelled with the CU and subsquent NGE and by you I mean your dynamic of player we'd probably have had the NGE cancelled. Your supporting the rational that allowed the NGE to be pushed out in the horrid state it was in when it was released onto the servers.

My main grip with the NGE wasn't and isnt that the version couldn't be fun and enjoyable it was it was no where near a polished and complete video game. Almost everyone who reviewed or tested it felt the same way and Jeff Freeman and company can never explain away how such an unfinished product went out on live to my satisfaction. Sorry Jeff.

On your points of being a star wars fan. What do you say to us fans who find the entire Jedi starter profession to be a total corruption of star wars lore, story and history in the time period the game is set? As a star wars fan you don't find it rather unstar warzy? I mean I played it and must say I was rather annoyed with the games lack of a star wars feeling post NGE. One class restrictions, linear forced content, Jedi everywhere, no Yodi lore or quests, static major Figures from the timeline (IE the Emperor's Retreat etc.) the content from EP 1-3 being used all over in EP IV timeline, General Grevious or his twin brother or whatever soe calls it? Obi-wan ghosts coming to Imperial players and helping them?

Just my points of contention I guess with the entire being a star wars fan.

kobie173 · February 2007

Are there bastardizations of canon? Sure there are ... some don't bother me so much, some really suck.

However, the core of the game is a Star Wars universe, and that's why a lot of us still play. Like I said earlier, if there was another one (and until the emu is remotely workable, I can't count that) that was available, we'd be there. But there's not.

PyscoJuggalo · February 2007

Originally posted by LakeDaemon

/agree
Whats lame are the people here who say they're not going back until they see more people go back. LOL  Those are cowards. Or say they are "so done with SWG", call it crap, etc.. but they are STILL bitching about it over a year after leaving the game due to the NGE.    (1) They say "let it die" but post and troll here. And they call players 10 year olds.. funny
(2) Face it, people. If you are still bitching about SWG not dying yet you need to let it die for yourself and find another hobby.   (3) You act all offended as if current players are "scabs" trying to take your jobs at the plant. GOD forbid someone else actually like the game. LOL You cant stand that or have to bust on it.
(4) I really hope the EMU works out for you but , statistically, it wont survive if it ever comes up in alpha stage at all. How many fan servers actually work out in any game...05%!?!   If you think it will suddenly be exactly like the old days you are deluded. Enjoy the grind fest, no support, no real uprades or added content.
(5) In the end , SWG will prosper as content and features are added over time.  All the players will look back and consider anything pre nge as SWGs beta-like game rolled out too early.   The NGE (and you) will be just an ugly pot hole in the road. It may never have 300k or even 150K again but, frankly, if it means tha some of you whiners arent there, it will be a better game.

1- we helped build the SWG community since it was announced, we were treated like chit and our money was stolen. We were loyal, we went through bugs, delays, and pandering to marketing. What SOE did was the final straw, we are making sure no other MMORPG Development Company makes that same mistake again. So when we say let it die, it means we want the game D E A D.

2- Trolling is my hobby, but so are MMORPGs. I'm combining both, trolling some asses who deserve it.

3- I am not offended by the current players, if they have Obriak's opinion "I enjoy the NGE more than the Pre-NGE" or "I enjoy the NGE and never played the Pre-NGE" that is fine. BUT- When they tell us to F off, or say "Yeah the Pre-NGE is better, but I 'adapted' to the NGE" that pisses me off.

4- SWG has a large cross-section of people who played it. Sure it will not be 100%, but even 10% Pre-CU is better then most of the EQ-Clone feces on the market.

5- Now your delusional. Chit they just changed lead devs how many times since this game's inception? SOE/LA continue to missmanage the game, people know that SWG is a failure, it is infact a legendary failure now, and it will never ever be as good as it was.

Fanbois like you are the reason Development Companies have no problem with screwing their customer base over. Let SOE defend themselves. I have seen Dev's come here and defend themselves, let SOE do the same.

Originally posted by LakeDaemon

Im not talking to (or about) the people who just simply left because they didnt like the game. Im pointing to the people who want miracles but dont want to do their part and those who took SOEs business decision too personally, wont get over it, and bash others who dont agree with them. All the others I have no problem with. I support those who lost so much and or those who moved on but like to post their critique here.

Sorry, that is my upbringing. On the South side of Chicago, ripping someone off of 100 dollars is bad and never forgotten

People who come from poorer neighborhoods respect the value of money more.

MikeMB · February 2007

Originally posted by kobie173

2+ year vet of SWG (started in Dec. 04), so yeah, I played the pre-CU, CU and NGE versions of the game. This is not in response to any thread in particular, just a general message to some of the players on these boards who feel the need to lump all those who still play into the "10-year-old NGE fanboi crowd."
Those of us from the old days who still play miss pre-CU just as much as everyone here, bugs and all. I know I do, as does everyone I talk with. The CU was tolerable, though it didn't have the richness and complexity of pre-CU.
However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.
But until that day comes, this is all we got. We're not all pre-teens who "want everything handed to us" or any of that shit.
I thoroughly expect this post to be flamed to hell; however, I read this forum quite a bit and felt the need to chime in. I am no NGE apologist like some of the folks in here -- just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.
It's Star Wars. That's why we still play, pure and simple.

I'll most likely get flamed for a little bit of this but oh well...

I like to think of myself as a 'vet mmo player' back in the 90's I played Neverwinter Nights on AOL, even with the hacks and cheaters it was still a fun game. Later I went to Diablo 1, again much like NWN it was a fun game when played with the right players. Then in 1998 I went down to Fry's to pick up my shiny new copy of Ultima Online. As someone that has played the Ultima games forever, I loved the idea of a mutliplayer Ultima World, and by that time I had grown up a little bit (I was 19 then) and loved the idea of Role Playing with other's in UO...

After a few weeks I was about ready to break my copy of UO in two and be done with the whole game after a small group of me and friends had gotten pked and told "rp go away lol" Still I found my own ways of getting back on UO, the Player Killers beloved running in with groups and ganking. I went for a more steath way, making a Thief and playing the waitting game. The kiddie player killer that got my friend lastnight? I stole his house key when he wasn't looking and now I'm in his house after he logged off and giving the items he killed so many for to newbies. Yeah I was a house thief but hey it was my revenge, besides it was worth it to hear the next day the pker having a fit that someone 'robbed' him and how that was worse then him killing miners... Still in 2000 Trammel came out, and then later still news broke about Star Wars-Online (wasn't called Galaxies yet back then.) As a fan of the movies, comics, books and games I was insanely happy to hear it. Better still SOE was doing it, and at the time they where high on the mark with Everquest...

Then Raph Koster came in...

See you have to understand, as a UO Vet I didn't think highly of Koster. He loved the Pre-Trammel UO, alot of us saw the Pre-Trammel UO as a true 'nitch' game. Gamers where going to EQ where they had player races, classes, quests and oh yeah no player killers! You have to understand that the UO Player Killer was truely at times scum. For every one or two Player Killers who would RP or be honorble about it, you had about ten who had some of the worst emotes marco'ed. Not only that Raph well he never really worked on a Sci-Fi game before... Still some can do both a Sci-Fi RPG and Fantasy RPG, maybe Raph could! Maybe Koster wouldn't do the samethings that he did with UO with SWG...

I remember the first reviews of SWG when it came out, most said it should have been in Beta for a few more months. I remember reading one of the comics on Ctrl+Alt+Del showing Ethan uninstalling SWG after playing it and going to hang himself. Needless to say I desided to wait and let SOE do some bug work before picking up a copy...

I followed the game, checked websites and the like and then when the first 15 day Demo of SWG came out I desided to download it and try it... It just didn't feel right to me, still I tried a few of the other MMO's that had come out, namely Final Fantasy 11 and then went to SWG. Hey old school gamer here, Jump to Lightspeed was making me think back to my nights spent playing X-Wing and Wing Commander. Still it felt like UO, there was a lack of Content and things to do besides grind, and do the Jedi grind. There was PvP but I've never really been the PvP Type, infact I believe a game needs a balance of PvE and PvP Content. Hell PvP really did bring out the worse in UO at times... Still I pressed on with SWG, it was a Star Wars game... Even tho the Pre-CU was broken, laggy, had a lack of content...

Then came the CU and things looked to start getting fixxed. Armor besides Comp Armor became worth something. There was a mix of both Loot/Quested items along with Player Crafted, Jump to Lightspeed was still fun and had gotten some new content in ROTW. Outside the uber Jedi stuff, SWG looked to be coming along as a fine game. Then came ToOW and the NGE...

Tell the truth I hated ToOW when it first came out, my first night doing one quest on Mustafar had one Jedi standing at the spawn for the NPC I had to kill. Alot of the quests almost felt like you had to have a Jedi or two just to get them done (lets not forget the over spawning of cridders on Mustafar like the fields of Lava Fleas and Bettles as far as the eye could see.) Then came the news about the NGE, and well maybe I am a little more understanding of game changes after my time on UO. Classes going from 30+ to 9? Whatever I was a Pistoleer with BH or Smuggler I really didn't care. Jedi going from a uber class to a 'class'? Fine the Alpha Class stuff didn't work imho and the game would be better off without it. Combat going from the Semi-Turnbased Combat to more of an FPS based Combat? Hey I knew that would be hated but whatever, I played Day of Defeat, Halo, Half-Life and whatever game ID Software came out with. I knew there would be a ton of bugs with the NGE and maybe some lag... Hell I played Ultima Online when Age of Shadows came out and watched the servers go down on the hour every other hour for a month. (btw the NGE launch imho was still better then the UO:AoS Launch, I could go off and kill stuff in SWG without getting lag death. AoS had lag death and if you didn't insure whatever items you had, kiss them good bye as they stay on your body when you die in UO and well, lag death half the time had your body decaying before getting too it.) Still it was Star Wars and as long as I had my little Space game I'd be happy...

As an SWG Vet and a UO Vet let me say this much, SOE has gone about the change with the NGE the wrong way and well Smed needs to wake up....

See what helped UO out is the fact that the Dev's started talking to the Playerbase about the game! I know that sounds alien to some of you but it worked! Granted the UO Dev's had to weed out posts of "bring back pre-trammel or a pre-trammel server!" but the dev's found out what the playerbase wanted. Not that loud unhappy playerbase, but the ones who did careless what system UO had they just wanted UO to get new things. Be it Dungeons, Items, Quests whatever...

SOE has done the wrong things... See what I remember way back in 2004 and in 2006 with SWG was the Players wanting content in the game. That's what made Jump to Lightspeed fun, outside the space grinding you had some fun missions to go off on. That's what made RoTW's somewhat fun, you had some nice quests both some that you could do solo and other's that you had to be grouped to do. The point is there was a little more to do besides, grind and Jedi Grind and PvP. Then comes the NGE and rather then getting new quests and content in the game we have SOE pulling a U Turn along with acting the game is being made at Area 51 (aka don't talk about anything new with SWG.)

As a long time Star Wars fan let me say this much, SOE is missing the mark with what SWG should be. What made Star Wars great wasn't the GCW, the Clone Wars or anything. Those where just the backdrops to the adventure, think Indiana Jones in a way... Yes Indi had to face off with the Nazi's in World War 2, but World War 2 was just the backdrop for the story. Should there be GCW PvP? Yes and yes there is a 'war' in 'Star Wars' but the 'war' was never what the movies or even alot of comicbooks, books and games where about.

Right now I'm taking a much needed break from SWG and am back on Ultima Online. I want to go back to SWG, I really do... I feel that it's alot like Ultima Online in alot of ways, a game that is out but hasn't found it's place on the market yet. UO found it, just took sometime for UO to really rebuild itself. UO hit it's playerpeak not in 1998/1999 like some say, but even Raph Koster came out and said UO hit it's peak in 2003, that's 5 years after UO had been out. If Smed really does want the game to get better he's going to have to have the game go about getting more content in it, and hear the playerbase out on SWG...

In the long run I didn't get SWG for it's system, or cuz Raph Koster made it, or cuz I could be an uber alpha Jedi. I got SWG cuz I have been a fan of Star Wars for most of my life. And I'd rather see SWG move on and move forward.

iskareot · February 2007

Originally posted by kobie173

2+ year vet of SWG (started in Dec. 04), so yeah, I played the pre-CU, CU and NGE versions of the game. This is not in response to any thread in particular, just a general message to some of the players on these boards who feel the need to lump all those who still play into the "10-year-old NGE fanboi crowd."
Those of us from the old days who still play miss pre-CU just as much as everyone here, bugs and all. I know I do, as does everyone I talk with. The CU was tolerable, though it didn't have the richness and complexity of pre-CU.
However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.
But until that day comes, this is all we got. We're not all pre-teens who "want everything handed to us" or any of that shit.
I thoroughly expect this post to be flamed to hell; however, I read this forum quite a bit and felt the need to chime in. I am no NGE apologist like some of the folks in here -- just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.
It's Star Wars. That's why we still play, pure and simple.

But see (And being a vocal person on this since it all started) ----- This makes you a supporter of what this is.

Plain and simple. I am a bigger SW fan then you could ever be, I went to it in 77' at a drive in and from then on I was sold.

However, being such a big fan this is a INSULT TO THE STAR WARS FRANCHISE.... if you look at the cannon and the level of disrespect to the IP then you can understand this.

Your looking at it from a stand point of "Well, it's the only SW MMO out there and that is my EXCUSE<--------------- KEY WORD BEING EXCUSE)>

You are paying for a service or product that is known as one of the most insulted MMOs out there... one of the biggest blunders, worst made games and NOW recently added... award winning in every bad catagory there is to a MMO except one type game.

This is NOT STAR WARS... this is now, Star Wars for people who need help, or instructions... handed to them without any difficulty whatsoever.

This game is now more removed from the Star Wars theme then ever.... From the "HOLO BANDS" which is utter bullshit because there is less people in the game....they gave you pretend friends to play with... SORRY --- NOT STAR WARSY OR ICONIC...Or to the 1000000s of Jedi galoping around with FORCE POLE ARMS! --- Oh yeah, look that one up in the Star Wars books... or movies... SORRY NOT FORCE POLE ARMS IN THEM...

So while you say this is "Star Wars" --- I tell you as a large fan... that the hardcore fans, find this a sad dissapointment let alone a insult to the Franchise name..

But the great thing is this...... Look at how LEC has promoted the game over the last year and ask me if anyone is proud of it?

Look at the playerbase it has attracted?

Look at it's success and reputation?

Look at what it did to the MMO community and for that matter the gaming industry!

If you use common sense and insight, this is NOT STAR WARS... this is now a bastardized version of someones vision WHOM IS NOW FIRED, at the same time a mere shadow of what the Star Wars world should be like or was headed towards in a game...

So while you say what you need to make yourself feel better... I will do the same except back mine up with the statement of "SWG What was once a world is now just a bad game"....

---- NGE is the farthest thing from a good Star Wars game then I think anything that has ever hit the market....

(Yeah, dancing blue glowies......) --- Yep......You and Helios can call it Iconic and Star Warsy all you want.. I know better...(Crap wait, they fired him too).....lol

There comes a time when you grab your nads and just say... "Wait a minute I expect more, I won't accept this"...

ShiloFields · February 2007

Interesting post. I guess I have always tried to wrap my brain around why someone that had played and liked the game pre-cu would continue to play. It just doesn't make any sense. (And I will confess I do sometimes think you all as collaborators. I don't have any right to feel that way, but nevertheles, that's how I see all of you. To paraphrase Vader, "You are part of the Sony alliance and a traitor. Take him away.") But seriously, you enjoy the game, its not my place to tell you not to play, even though I am often tempted to do so.

What I don't get is why someone would continue to play because of the Star Wars aspect? The game is a mockery of Star Wars. It is a preversion of what we saw on the screen. I could see playing SWG now if you want a generic Sci Fi game, but don't really care anything about Star Wars. But playing the game for the Star Wars experience? I don't understand. Being a true Star Wars fan and liking SWG in its current form is totally inconsistent. Its like saying I am a humanitarian, but I enjoy watching people cause human suffering.

But to each his own I guess.

iskareot · February 2007

Originally posted by ShiloFields

Interesting post. I guess I have always tried to wrap my brain around why someone that had played and liked the game pre-cu would continue to play. It just doesn't make any sense. (And I will confess I do sometimes think you all as collaborators. I don't have any right to feel that way, but nevertheles, that's how I see all of you. To paraphrase Vader, "You are part of the Sony alliance and a traitor. Take him away.") But seriously, you enjoy the game, its not my place to tell you not to play, even though I am often tempted to do so.
What I don't get is why someone would continue to play because of the Star Wars aspect? The game is a mockery of Star Wars. It is a preversion of what we saw on the screen. I could see playing SWG now if you want a generic Sci Fi game, but don't really care anything about Star Wars. But playing the game for the Star Wars experience? I don't understand. Being a true Star Wars fan and liking SWG in its current form is totally inconsistent. Its like saying I am a humanitarian, but I enjoy watching people cause human suffering.
But to each his own I guess.

Exactly.... A Mockery of Star Wars is being nice...

Not one self respecting Star Wars fan from all the shows, expos, fan gatherings even touches it... they think it is fodder and a insult to the IP in a big level.

Think about this... there is no more then 10k people playing the game now... SERVER merger ideas are going on..

Do you really think there is only 10k Adult Star Wars fans with computers????? Do you really think that they don't play it because it's "too hard" or to "Star Warsy??"......

No... they don't play it because it sucks and it pretty much insults the IP and the franchise.

That is why you don't see it advertised like you saw "Star Wars Legos II"..... that game is more Star Warsy and iconic then SWG will ever be now.

gladiatory2k · February 2007

I had played since April 2004 because one of my buddies was playing it and I was a big Star Wars fan. I came on board just after the Vette went live. I kept playing through CU and the NGE because it was the only Star Wars MMO. I spent countless hours perfecting Vette runs and improving my run times with my guild. I kept playing even though some of my friends had quit. I kept reading the boards hoping for new improvements, looked forward to each chapter as maybe being the saving grace of the game....yes I was fooling myself. I didn't like the bait and switch SOE pulled with the trials of Obi Wan but I kept playing because I still enjoyed playing my Jedi and it was Star Wars. I dealt with it taking me 5 minutes to get from one end of Theed to the other due to lag and stuck with it because it was Star Wars. I saw my friends stop playing because the fun went out for them. The final straw came when all of my favorite skills were taken away from me only to be given back to me in a skill tree. I was disgusted by the arrogence and "because I said so" mentality. And, to be honest, I never like blixtev so if he's running things, I DEFINITELY will never go back. SOE will not get another cent from me because the kind of attitude found in SWG can be found in all of Sony, it is part of the company identity. And Lucas' notion of "It's my story I can do what I want" attitude that just leaves me feeling like it wasn't just SOE's fault either.

My experience with SWG left a bitter taste in my mouth that tarnished my love for Star Wars. I went from the guy that went to walmart at midnight for the new prequel toys even though I didn't have kids to....Star Wars? meh!

This is why I DON'T play. It's fine if you still play because you love everything Star Wars, but I for one feel like Star Wars, is just another set of movies.

Mordah · February 2007

Its guys like the OP and his tagalong buddy that keep SWG afloat and prevent any meaningful development of something worth actually playing. I love Star Wars as much as anybody, but paying good money to a company like Sony is a crime. There are plenty of Star Wars games out there worth playing...maybe you should give them your money instead. Empire at War, Battlefront 2, KOTOR, Jedi Academy, Jedi Knight just to name a few. And why do you feel the need to come here and post this trash? Go post it on the SOE boards where you will get high 5's and backslaps. The OP started out trying to sound respectful, but it didn't take long for you moron pals to show up and start slandering people. THAT is the NGE playerbase. Thanks for reminding us who you are.

Chessack · February 2007

Originally posted by kobie173

However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.
But until that day comes, this is all we got.

And by continuing to pay for the NGE, you are keeping it alive. And by keeping it alive (albeit on life support) you are prolonging your poor experience and keeping a potential new and better one from coming sooner. If SWG died tomorrow, I guarantee someone would start up a new SW MMORPG in short order. But as long as SW(n)G(e) is "the" SW MMORPG, and as long as you people keep playing it, then nobody is ever going to start up a new one.

So, by accepting "It's Star Wars, even if the quality is utter crap", you ensure that the quality remains utter crap for years to come.

C

therain93 · February 2007

Originally posted by kobie173

2+ year vet of SWG (started in Dec. 04), so yeah, I played the pre-CU, CU and NGE versions of the game. This is not in response to any thread in particular, just a general message to some of the players on these boards who feel the need to lump all those who still play into the "10-year-old NGE fanboi crowd."
Those of us from the old days who still play miss pre-CU just as much as everyone here, bugs and all. I know I do, as does everyone I talk with. The CU was tolerable, though it didn't have the richness and complexity of pre-CU.
However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.
But until that day comes, this is all we got. We're not all pre-teens who "want everything handed to us" or any of that shit.
I thoroughly expect this post to be flamed to hell; however, I read this forum quite a bit and felt the need to chime in. I am no NGE apologist like some of the folks in here -- just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.
It's Star Wars. That's why we still play, pure and simple.

I've got to weigh in on this --

Firstly, I do understand that, sure, being that SWG is a Star Wars game, that's motivation to play. I'm totally on board with you and can respect the idea of playing a game that has some niche appeal. For example, I'm a huge CoX fan because, well, for one, no one else in the market has made a decent superhero game (other than Freedom Force, which obviously isn't an mmorpg.)

With that said though, unlike CoX, there are plenty of knocks against Star Wars Galaxies. The biggest gripe about CoX is lack of content. Otherwise, the toon's are fun, super customizeable, great story arcs, arguably the best combat in an mmorpg and developers who give plenty back to the community in rapport, support and free expansion content. All in all, still a great game and the developer works hard *enough* for my money -- I see the value in continuing to subscribe. Others don't and that's fine.

What has SWG done? Well, we all know what happened. Lack of content. Ridiculous amounts of bugs. Pre-CU to CU to NGE. Now, the first two are about expectations that subscribers rightly had. SOE pushed a blatantly unfinished product out the door that people were duped into paying for. The last, well, technically the NGE was Sony's prerogative and we have no say. When we sign the EULA, it says we don't own the characters we create or the equipment and that SOE reserves the right to change anything at anytime. Fine, they can do that. And so they did (radically!) to chagrin and disappointment of its playerbase.

Short tangent -- when airlines cancel your flights due to weather, like Jet Blue did because of the Noreaster this past week, they really aren't obligated to compensate their customers, regardless of the inconvenience. Yet, they are -- they're giving people full refunds and free round trip tickets for those who had to wait over 3+ hours. The point is, Jet Blue is willing to sacrifice a few dollars today for a lifetime of your dollars to come. On the other hand, Sony could care less about their customers and what their customers invested in that game. Sure, players don't have a right to the game but that doesn't mean we possess such shallow feelings about it. How can you reward that behavior? Many people opted not to, cancelling subscriptions.

Another tangent -- back in the day of MUDs, some were liberal enough to allow players to graduate to coding. For instance, I played on Overdrive and eventually "wizzed", which was to apply for a promotion to a programming position after demonstrating knowledge of the game and what you had achieved. Anyway, wizzing was appealing because if you didn't like something about the game, you could eventually join the ranks of the content makers and change it, as well as release your own content. What's my point? Well, people who continue to subscribe to SWG hoping to change the game, provide insightful feedback, and ultimately see change are on a fool's errand--they will never be in a position to effect change.

So why stay? I say people shouldn't. To stay is to reward bad business practices on SOE's part. To stay because you think you really can make a difference from that side of the monitor is fool-hardy. To stay because it's a Star Wars game, that's fine and at least arguably legitimate. But for many of us, that just isn't enough. As one person stated above, there are plenty of other Star Wars games out there, all of which are better, if that's what you're looking for.

FreelancerA4 · February 2007

I am as much a Star Wars fan as the next hardcore guy. I loved the community that SWG brought to my doorstep when I subscribed, but at some point this game ceased to be a Star Wars game and the friends and acquaintances I saw whenever I logged in were gone, and there were three people I ended up running into at random intervals over and over. That's why I quit. I'd love to have a fulfilling Star Wars MMORPG but right now I'm just going to have to settle with regular Star Wars games and trialing several MMOs. All I can say is that I applaud you for your patience and willingness to deal with SOEs stupid decisions and disappointed that you choose to continue to support it for the reasons you have stated.

mithrandir72 · February 2007

Originally posted by kobie173

2+ year vet of SWG (started in Dec. 04), so yeah, I played the pre-CU, CU and NGE versions of the game. This is not in response to any thread in particular, just a general message to some of the players on these boards who feel the need to lump all those who still play into the "10-year-old NGE fanboi crowd."
Those of us from the old days who still play miss pre-CU just as much as everyone here, bugs and all. I know I do, as does everyone I talk with. The CU was tolerable, though it didn't have the richness and complexity of pre-CU.
However, there is one thing many of you guys overlook when addressing this issue -- it's Star Wars. The majority of the people remaining in game (however many of us you think there are) are more Star Wars fans than MMO players. You find me another MMO where I can live in a Star Wars universe (even one as FUBARed as the current one), then myself and pretty much everyone I know would be there in a heartbeat.
But until that day comes, this is all we got. We're not all pre-teens who "want everything handed to us" or any of that shit.
I thoroughly expect this post to be flamed to hell; however, I read this forum quite a bit and felt the need to chime in. I am no NGE apologist like some of the folks in here -- just a simple man trying to make his way in the universe.
It's Star Wars. That's why we still play, pure and simple.

A bit off-topic, but you didn't happen to play on Ahazi, did you? I seem to remember your name from somewhere. Name was Eoton, if that rings a bell.

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I love Star Wars. I was raised on it. I'm watching Episode Six as I type this post. But I can't possibly support in good conscience SOE's decisions. Sony screwed me out of most of a community, a great game, and a couple of bucks, all in an attempt to make more money from a mythical subscriber base. Some would tell me thats a business decision. They're right. But I have every right to be pissed about a business decision.

Star Wars is great, and there is rarely a time when I don't miss SWG, if only because of the Star Wars. But I left because SWG was no longer the game it used to, and should be. Because SOE screwed with me, and I'm not going to stand by and let that go unpunished. Even Star Wars cannot get me to commit that much evil.

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