Technical speaking it does have an effect on me. WASD requires more server brandwith, which means more lag.
From our previous fight about this:
K2 network, Stop, Hold it. Put the game down and walk away with your hands in the air, where I can see them. Do not add things to the game, do not change things to the game, and for the love of god, please do NOT revamp anything! Just translate and host, leave the content of the game to the real developers.
In 2 separate conversations you make it perfectly clear you DON'T want WASD because it will hinder YOUR gameplay (or so you say).
Once again I am done with this because you feel one thing and I know the truth. So we are getting no where. WASD hinders performance and should not be allowed in the game so no one will buy it (and we have had a NUMBER of players who have come here and no nothing about the game and said just that no WASD no buy).
Thats Bull, I have never said "Do not include WASD movement Because I don't like it so you shouldn't use it either". Your trying to tell me what MY standpoints are, do you even realise how rediculous that is?
I WHOLELY disagree GL. I know we have been here before... but it is still true. Name 1 AAA 3rd gen MMO that uses Click to move as the SOLE movement style. When I say click to move is dead, I think I need to be clear. Sole click to move games are dead. The modern gamer WANTS customization. They WANT to be able to play their favorite game however they choose. If YOU don't think click to move can work (and once again on every point I disagree) that is YOU. There are MANY gamers out there who CAN make it work and work well. Asking for a 3rd gen MMO is rediculous, the 3rd gen has only just started and I haven't had the time yet to play all 3rd gen asian MMORPG's yet. And by your defenition, WASD movement is dead as well because every WASD movement MMORPG also includes point & click MMORPG's.
You bring up it being impossible to control multiple characters. I disagree. Simply by using shift+click I should be able to select my characters and move on the fly. Or allow me to assign what key I want to use to call up my characters indiviually (like the current F1-F3) or let me select all (F9). I can see SOO many opportunites on making WASD work its insane. And again, I DON'T SEE HOW ME WANTING WASD EFFECTS YOU AT ALL. Those keys aren't the problem, the WASD keys are used for diffrent things. the poster above you explained to you why WASD movement would be less effective in point and click in a game like Granado Espada. Technical speaking it does have an effect on me. WASD requires more server brandwith, which means more lag.
Thats the biggie for me. If it will sell games why do you care if some idiot fumbles with WASD while you are clicking your way to 100? For my personal set up click to move is HIGHLY annoying AND uncomfortable. That doesn't mean I don't want you to have it. Yet at every turn YOU don't want others to have WASD... flat out. and that seems REALLY close-minded. As for games that have done both. You are wrong. WoW has both, CoX has both, LotRO has both and ALL of these games do it WELL. I am NOT saying to remove click to move... I am ONLY asking for an option. You don't seem to be able to agree to at least that. EDIT: Neovile - I read your post and I am really on your side. I don't understand what the big deal is with including options. But GL wants everyone to be forced to play like him. And I disagree. Okay seriously, either read my posts or be quiet, because I DO NOT apreciate you putting words in my mouth, I said that point & click is superior to WASD movement, I have never said "you can't have WASD movement".
I'd just like to ask: what exactly is considered a 3rd gen. MMORPG? If there's a set definition somewhere, let me know...
Its usually completely based on the timeline, First gen would be Ultima Online, the realm online, Everquest, 2nd gen would be World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, 3rd gen would be Vanguard, Warhammer, Aion, etc.
You're right, in what Boommer said, WASD would also be considered dead (by his definition) in games that included both WASD and point and click. I, however, don't believe this is what he intended say. I believe he meant to say that, even in games that include both options, WASD is the standard device for movement and not point and click.
the opposite is true. there are over 150 asian MMORPG's that have point & click as their standard movement options.
I WHOLELY disagree GL. I know we have been here before... but it is still true. Name 1 AAA 3rd gen MMO that uses Click to move as the SOLE movement style. When I say click to move is dead, I think I need to be clear. Sole click to move games are dead. The modern gamer WANTS customization. They WANT to be able to play their favorite game however they choose. If YOU don't think click to move can work (and once again on every point I disagree) that is YOU. There are MANY gamers out there who CAN make it work and work well. Asking for a 3rd gen MMO is rediculous, the 3rd gen has only just started and I haven't had the time yet to play all 3rd gen asian MMORPG's yet. And by your defenition, WASD movement is dead as well because every WASD movement MMORPG also includes point & click MMORPG's.
You bring up it being impossible to control multiple characters. I disagree. Simply by using shift+click I should be able to select my characters and move on the fly. Or allow me to assign what key I want to use to call up my characters indiviually (like the current F1-F3) or let me select all (F9). I can see SOO many opportunites on making WASD work its insane. And again, I DON'T SEE HOW ME WANTING WASD EFFECTS YOU AT ALL. Those keys aren't the problem, the WASD keys are used for diffrent things. the poster above you explained to you why WASD movement would be less effective in point and click in a game like Granado Espada. Technical speaking it does have an effect on me. WASD requires more server brandwith, which means more lag.
Thats the biggie for me. If it will sell games why do you care if some idiot fumbles with WASD while you are clicking your way to 100? For my personal set up click to move is HIGHLY annoying AND uncomfortable. That doesn't mean I don't want you to have it. Yet at every turn YOU don't want others to have WASD... flat out. and that seems REALLY close-minded. As for games that have done both. You are wrong. WoW has both, CoX has both, LotRO has both and ALL of these games do it WELL. I am NOT saying to remove click to move... I am ONLY asking for an option. You don't seem to be able to agree to at least that. EDIT: Neovile - I read your post and I am really on your side. I don't understand what the big deal is with including options. But GL wants everyone to be forced to play like him. And I disagree. Okay seriously, either read my posts or be quiet, because I DO NOT apreciate you putting words in my mouth, I said that point & click is superior to WASD movement, I have never said "you can't have WASD movement".
I'd just like to ask: what exactly is considered a 3rd gen. MMORPG? If there's a set definition somewhere, let me know...
Its usually completely based on the timeline, First gen would be Ultima Online, the realm online, Everquest, 2nd gen would be World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, 3rd gen would be Vanguard, Warhammer, Aion, etc.
You're right, in what Boommer said, WASD would also be considered dead (by his definition) in games that included both WASD and point and click. I, however, don't believe this is what he intended say. I believe he meant to say that, even in games that include both options, WASD is the standard device for movement and not point and click.
the opposite is true. there are over 150 asian MMORPG's that have point & click as their standard movement options.
OK, that might be true. So, 150 Asian MMORPGS have point and click as their standard movement scheme. Now, out of those 150, how many of them are considered large communitied games and how many of them will ever see the North American shore (or any other for that matter)? Also, how many of them aren't just cookie-cutter games that look almost exactly the same and have the exact same style of combat, movement, chat, graphics, and other features? How many of these games even last more than a year? Probably not a majority of them.
But, then again, what are we arguing? Asian MMOs or English MMOs? I totally agree, point and click is the standard form of movement in Asian MMOs. However, for North American or other MMOs besides Asian, I believe the opposite to be true. Just look at the majority of 3D games listed on this site. I'm not arguing to say that either way has a winning side, I really don't know, but if anyone has the time, let's tally this up to see. You've sparked my curiosity.
If anyone's up to the challenge, just make a list in an easily readable format... something along the lines of:
1. Mouse Point & Click
- GAME
2. WASD / Arrow Key Movement
- GAME
3a. Both (WASD / Arrow Key Standard)
- GAME
3b. Both (Point & Click Standard)
- GAME
Let's ONLY include games that are 3D in nature (for easy comparison).
I'm anxious to see where this will go.
EDIT:
I would start the list, but I currently don't have time. I'll get around to it later if no one's up to the challenge. Also, include the origin country after the game name (in parenthesis).
I WHOLELY disagree GL. I know we have been here before... but it is still true. Name 1 AAA 3rd gen MMO that uses Click to move as the SOLE movement style. When I say click to move is dead, I think I need to be clear. Sole click to move games are dead. The modern gamer WANTS customization. They WANT to be able to play their favorite game however they choose. If YOU don't think click to move can work (and once again on every point I disagree) that is YOU. There are MANY gamers out there who CAN make it work and work well. Asking for a 3rd gen MMO is rediculous, the 3rd gen has only just started and I haven't had the time yet to play all 3rd gen asian MMORPG's yet. And by your defenition, WASD movement is dead as well because every WASD movement MMORPG also includes point & click MMORPG's.
You bring up it being impossible to control multiple characters. I disagree. Simply by using shift+click I should be able to select my characters and move on the fly. Or allow me to assign what key I want to use to call up my characters indiviually (like the current F1-F3) or let me select all (F9). I can see SOO many opportunites on making WASD work its insane. And again, I DON'T SEE HOW ME WANTING WASD EFFECTS YOU AT ALL. Those keys aren't the problem, the WASD keys are used for diffrent things. the poster above you explained to you why WASD movement would be less effective in point and click in a game like Granado Espada. Technical speaking it does have an effect on me. WASD requires more server brandwith, which means more lag.
Thats the biggie for me. If it will sell games why do you care if some idiot fumbles with WASD while you are clicking your way to 100? For my personal set up click to move is HIGHLY annoying AND uncomfortable. That doesn't mean I don't want you to have it. Yet at every turn YOU don't want others to have WASD... flat out. and that seems REALLY close-minded. As for games that have done both. You are wrong. WoW has both, CoX has both, LotRO has both and ALL of these games do it WELL. I am NOT saying to remove click to move... I am ONLY asking for an option. You don't seem to be able to agree to at least that. EDIT: Neovile - I read your post and I am really on your side. I don't understand what the big deal is with including options. But GL wants everyone to be forced to play like him. And I disagree. Okay seriously, either read my posts or be quiet, because I DO NOT apreciate you putting words in my mouth, I said that point & click is superior to WASD movement, I have never said "you can't have WASD movement".
I'd just like to ask: what exactly is considered a 3rd gen. MMORPG? If there's a set definition somewhere, let me know...
Its usually completely based on the timeline, First gen would be Ultima Online, the realm online, Everquest, 2nd gen would be World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, 3rd gen would be Vanguard, Warhammer, Aion, etc.
You're right, in what Boommer said, WASD would also be considered dead (by his definition) in games that included both WASD and point and click. I, however, don't believe this is what he intended say. I believe he meant to say that, even in games that include both options, WASD is the standard device for movement and not point and click.
the opposite is true. there are over 150 asian MMORPG's that have point & click as their standard movement options.
OK, that might be true. So, 150 Asian MMORPGS have point and click as their standard movement scheme. Now, out of those 150, how many of them are considered large communitied games and how many of them will ever see the North American shore (or any other for that matter)? Also, how many of them aren't just cookie-cutter games that look almost exactly the same and have the exact same style of combat, movement, chat, graphics, and other features? How many of these games even last more than a year? Probably not a majority of them.
Pretty much all of them have large communities. Korea and China are the home of MMORPG gaming. The North American and European MMORPG market are only secondary market, unimportant, and very small. The thing is that your falling for the asian mmorpg stereotype. haters have been saying "Asian MMORPG's suck and die within a few years". This was repeated so many times that many people actually took it as true stories, but its not true. Most asian MMORPG's are doing well because of the enormous popularity of MMORPG's in Asia. to give you an example, the MMORPG ArchLord received 1 million beta sign ups in Korea alone. the game only reached 100k sign ups in the US/EU combined. the amount of MMORPG's that closed service in asia is actually quite small. in fact, the chance a western mmorpg dies is much higher then an asian mmorpg dies because of the small mmorpg market. So yes, the majority of MMORPG's last WELL over a year. Even just adding some common sense would help. Asia has tons of mmorpg's. would companies really keep creating MMORPG's if they weren't successfull?. If they are the same is not of the point, and the same can be said about many WASD movement.
But, then again, what are we arguing? Asian MMOs or English MMOs? I totally agree, point and click is the standard form of movement in Asian MMOs. However, for North American or other MMOs besides Asian, I believe the opposite to be true. Just look at the majority of 3D games listed on this site. I'm not arguing to say that either way has a winning side, I really don't know, but if anyone has the time, let's tally this up to see. You've sparked my curiosity.
Well I', arguing the entire mmorpg market, especialy because we are dealing with an asian mmorpg in the west, and also because the western market is just very small compared to the asian market. North american MMO's indeed aim more at WASD movement then Point & click, thats true.
If anyone's up to the challenge, just make a list in an easily readable format... something along the lines of:
1. Mouse Point & Click
- GAME
2. WASD / Arrow Key Movement
- GAME
3a. Both (WASD / Arrow Key Standard)
- GAME
3b. Both (Point & Click Standard)
- GAME
Let's ONLY include games that are 3D in nature (for easy comparison).
I'm anxious to see where this will go.
EDIT:
I would start the list, but I currently don't have time. I'll get around to it later if no one's up to the challenge. Also, include the origin country after the game name (in parenthesis).
Comments
From our previous fight about this:
In 2 separate conversations you make it perfectly clear you DON'T want WASD because it will hinder YOUR gameplay (or so you say).
Once again I am done with this because you feel one thing and I know the truth. So we are getting no where. WASD hinders performance and should not be allowed in the game so no one will buy it (and we have had a NUMBER of players who have come here and no nothing about the game and said just that no WASD no buy).
Thats Bull, I have never said "Do not include WASD movement Because I don't like it so you shouldn't use it either". Your trying to tell me what MY standpoints are, do you even realise how rediculous that is?I'd just like to ask: what exactly is considered a 3rd gen. MMORPG? If there's a set definition somewhere, let me know...
Its usually completely based on the timeline, First gen would be Ultima Online, the realm online, Everquest, 2nd gen would be World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, 3rd gen would be Vanguard, Warhammer, Aion, etc.
You're right, in what Boommer said, WASD would also be considered dead (by his definition) in games that included both WASD and point and click. I, however, don't believe this is what he intended say. I believe he meant to say that, even in games that include both options, WASD is the standard device for movement and not point and click.
the opposite is true. there are over 150 asian MMORPG's that have point & click as their standard movement options.
I'd just like to ask: what exactly is considered a 3rd gen. MMORPG? If there's a set definition somewhere, let me know...
Its usually completely based on the timeline, First gen would be Ultima Online, the realm online, Everquest, 2nd gen would be World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, 3rd gen would be Vanguard, Warhammer, Aion, etc.
You're right, in what Boommer said, WASD would also be considered dead (by his definition) in games that included both WASD and point and click. I, however, don't believe this is what he intended say. I believe he meant to say that, even in games that include both options, WASD is the standard device for movement and not point and click.
the opposite is true. there are over 150 asian MMORPG's that have point & click as their standard movement options.
OK, that might be true. So, 150 Asian MMORPGS have point and click as their standard movement scheme. Now, out of those 150, how many of them are considered large communitied games and how many of them will ever see the North American shore (or any other for that matter)? Also, how many of them aren't just cookie-cutter games that look almost exactly the same and have the exact same style of combat, movement, chat, graphics, and other features? How many of these games even last more than a year? Probably not a majority of them.
But, then again, what are we arguing? Asian MMOs or English MMOs? I totally agree, point and click is the standard form of movement in Asian MMOs. However, for North American or other MMOs besides Asian, I believe the opposite to be true. Just look at the majority of 3D games listed on this site. I'm not arguing to say that either way has a winning side, I really don't know, but if anyone has the time, let's tally this up to see. You've sparked my curiosity.
If anyone's up to the challenge, just make a list in an easily readable format... something along the lines of:
1. Mouse Point & Click
- GAME
2. WASD / Arrow Key Movement
- GAME
3a. Both (WASD / Arrow Key Standard)
- GAME
3b. Both (Point & Click Standard)
- GAME
Let's ONLY include games that are 3D in nature (for easy comparison).
I'm anxious to see where this will go.
EDIT:
I would start the list, but I currently don't have time. I'll get around to it later if no one's up to the challenge. Also, include the origin country after the game name (in parenthesis).
I'd just like to ask: what exactly is considered a 3rd gen. MMORPG? If there's a set definition somewhere, let me know...
Its usually completely based on the timeline, First gen would be Ultima Online, the realm online, Everquest, 2nd gen would be World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, 3rd gen would be Vanguard, Warhammer, Aion, etc.
You're right, in what Boommer said, WASD would also be considered dead (by his definition) in games that included both WASD and point and click. I, however, don't believe this is what he intended say. I believe he meant to say that, even in games that include both options, WASD is the standard device for movement and not point and click.
the opposite is true. there are over 150 asian MMORPG's that have point & click as their standard movement options.
OK, that might be true. So, 150 Asian MMORPGS have point and click as their standard movement scheme. Now, out of those 150, how many of them are considered large communitied games and how many of them will ever see the North American shore (or any other for that matter)? Also, how many of them aren't just cookie-cutter games that look almost exactly the same and have the exact same style of combat, movement, chat, graphics, and other features? How many of these games even last more than a year? Probably not a majority of them.
Pretty much all of them have large communities. Korea and China are the home of MMORPG gaming. The North American and European MMORPG market are only secondary market, unimportant, and very small. The thing is that your falling for the asian mmorpg stereotype. haters have been saying "Asian MMORPG's suck and die within a few years". This was repeated so many times that many people actually took it as true stories, but its not true. Most asian MMORPG's are doing well because of the enormous popularity of MMORPG's in Asia. to give you an example, the MMORPG ArchLord received 1 million beta sign ups in Korea alone. the game only reached 100k sign ups in the US/EU combined. the amount of MMORPG's that closed service in asia is actually quite small. in fact, the chance a western mmorpg dies is much higher then an asian mmorpg dies because of the small mmorpg market. So yes, the majority of MMORPG's last WELL over a year. Even just adding some common sense would help. Asia has tons of mmorpg's. would companies really keep creating MMORPG's if they weren't successfull?. If they are the same is not of the point, and the same can be said about many WASD movement.But, then again, what are we arguing? Asian MMOs or English MMOs? I totally agree, point and click is the standard form of movement in Asian MMOs. However, for North American or other MMOs besides Asian, I believe the opposite to be true. Just look at the majority of 3D games listed on this site. I'm not arguing to say that either way has a winning side, I really don't know, but if anyone has the time, let's tally this up to see. You've sparked my curiosity.
Well I', arguing the entire mmorpg market, especialy because we are dealing with an asian mmorpg in the west, and also because the western market is just very small compared to the asian market. North american MMO's indeed aim more at WASD movement then Point & click, thats true.
If anyone's up to the challenge, just make a list in an easily readable format... something along the lines of:
1. Mouse Point & Click
- GAME
2. WASD / Arrow Key Movement
- GAME
3a. Both (WASD / Arrow Key Standard)
- GAME
3b. Both (Point & Click Standard)
- GAME
Let's ONLY include games that are 3D in nature (for easy comparison).
I'm anxious to see where this will go.
EDIT:
I would start the list, but I currently don't have time. I'll get around to it later if no one's up to the challenge. Also, include the origin country after the game name (in parenthesis).