I think alot of the people who are against this game voice there opinion for 2 reasons.
1. It's not WoW(probably the only MMO they can compare it to)
2. They have an outdated computer and/or do not know anything about Video settings and/or ini file tweaks
I personally am still skeptical about VG but am willing to stick with it in hopes that they can impress me with constant updates and dedication to improving the gaming experience.
WoW is deff superior in the animations department and overall fun factor(because its casual and you can lvl fast)
If you cant handle a true MMO format then continue playing WoW, GW, or COH/COV.I agree it seems like you get little for the time investment..but MMO's are supposed to take time..that way you can actually be superior to other players instead of som1 who just bought the game a week ago catching up to you. Whats the fun in that?
It's not wow, it's crap It's about the frustration not the end game. I agree with you on te whole crafting thing. The whole compication thing pees me off. I just can't be bothered with crafting. I'm a diplomacy man and enjoying that. If all you think about is getting to the next lvl you will want to leave. There are so many repetitive places to go and see. Go out and explore the same environment over and over and over. Just try to stop thinking about lvling up all the time and grind.
BUMP (cause anyone I can save from this horrible game I WILL! Preorder LOTRO instead ... or give your money to charity. Don't waste it on this unfinished POS!)
------ Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE Currently - Bored.
I'd speculate that part of the reason LOTRO is offering it's "innovative" pay in advance for large chunks of time deals is because alot of people will love the game for a week or two, be concerned by 2-3 and finished by a month. I'm sure it will do very well in the like to solo a few hours a week demographic, if you can find enough to do there for any period of time without becoming bored rigid, good luck to you.
Thanks for making a thread with such a clear agenda, but I know I and many others are quite comfortable with enjoying a game we won't have done every zone in a few weeks time.
Horses for courses, there's nothing wrong with liking what you like, however trying to rationalise your personal preferences as the only sane choice is rather egotistical though. All the best.
OP is right! If you value your hard earned cash and your time, stay away from this game. I am not against grinding, I grinded many times in the past. There were times I even had great fun!
The issue with Vangrinding is that it makes it incredibly dull and uninteresting! I don't know how they could manage to do that. Combat is boring to death and it lacks the punch completely. It feels as if you are slicing bread instead of furiously battling. Animations are horrendously repetitive, lacks creativity and looks terrible. Not to mention the game breaking bugs, crashes, stutters and hitches. Mob models are so poorly textured and animated that you question if they are worth killing.
Also, be warned! Vanguard has the most fanatical, blinded and immature fanbois base... which means you will be grinding with them
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
VanGrind....well it is a grind, if YOU choose to make it one! I for one use these games as a back drop for RP, wow imagine that! And Vanguard has a fantastic world for RPers. And also the grinding you do in fact do is very fun, and this is something I did not expect!
But sure, if all you want to do is level level level, then this game will probably feel somewhat daunting...
I'd speculate that part of the reason LOTRO is offering it's "innovative" pay in advance for large chunks of time deals is because alot of people will love the game for a week or two, be concerned by 2-3 and finished by a month. I'm sure it will do very well in the like to solo a few hours a week demographic, if you can find enough to do there for any period of time without becoming bored rigid, good luck to you.
Thanks for making a thread with such a clear agenda, but I know I and many others are quite comfortable with enjoying a game we won't have done every zone in a few weeks time.
Horses for courses, there's nothing wrong with liking what you like, however trying to rationalise your personal preferences as the only sane choice is rather egotistical though. All the best.
I have no agenda. I only got into the LOTRO beta yesterday ... but it's a more polished, better looking product.
VG sucks. It's a disgrace to the software industry to release something that far from it's "ready" point. I wish I could have my $60 back.
------ Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE Currently - Bored.
Vanguard is (will be)fine. Bugs are fixed everyday. Performance gets better every patch. And, I like the grind. Its sad when you level so fast in games that you miss most of the content. Games, MMOs in particular are about the jounrey not abou who can get to the "end" fastest or first. Take your time enjoy the game,explore, get into diplomacy or crafting. You get out of a mmorpg what you put in to it.
Originally posted by thomas.hart However - the world, while beautiful, is EMPTY. Everywhere I go, I'm left feeling like I'm seeing another beautifully rendered scene - but I'm looking for a game, not a nature show.
This is a good thing. I've been getting more than a little annoyed with WoW (where, in fact, we have a guildie named Jord upon whom we blame everything). Look at the most recent expansion. People hit the cap in about a week. 2 years from the launch of the game to the launch of its first expansion and people capped out in 7 days. Sad.
But back to the size of the world. This, among other things, has been a disturbing trend in MMOs for years now. I started out in Asheron's Call. Anyone remember when it launched in '99? I came on a month or two after that. Know what they had. A HUGE landmass. They have since added 4 small islands but by and large their monthly content updates have fleshed out that original landmass. It has changed and grown with the game.
Look at the game play it provided. In WoW if you want to level/gain money you "grind" in an area, doing loops just big enough for respawn to happen. Same scenery over and over. And when you outlevel it or someone else comes along you move to the next loop along the line. In AC you picked a starting town, an ending town, and you ran cross country, picking fights along the way. No loops, no same spawning mobs. No same scenery. In fact even with the same starting and ending towns you could find dozens of ways to go.
MMORPG designers have forgotten the first word in their genre's title. MASSIVELY. It doesn't just mean multiplayer because in today's market of uber-instanced, tightly controlled, mini-worlds there is no massive to it, certainly not multiplayer. I mean think about it. I could go play on a 24 man Counter-Strike: Source server and have more players around me most of the time than I would WoW's 5 and 10 man instances. 5 and 10 players is massive? Since when? It makes the world outside the instance little more than a pretty server browser.
Have I played Vanguard? Not yet, no. Debating whether I want to buy it or wait for a demo in 6 months time. But I just had to chime in because I hear, time and again, that the large empty world is a bad thing. I see it as a huge positive and a step back in the right direction for MMOs. Put the massive back in. Massive landmass should be the first goal of any MMO, period.
Large worlds are fine. Large empty worlds leave a lot to be desired by some people. I can solo forever and not be bothered by it some people hate it. SWG has the same problem big numerous planets with no one on them. I can see how it gets to people. While it may be the journey not the destination that a MMO is all about taking that trip by yourself can kind of suck.
Just want to add a comment about the landmass in VG. It doesn't seem all that big. I mean the way Brad was talking about it, he made it sound like it would be unbelievably large. But I'm finding the actual LAND mass to be only somewhat larger than what WoW provides. Most of the playable space in the game seems to be ocean.
I appreciate your examples as they are constructed well and you make your point. However, one small addition that has a bearing on overall time spent is the price of failure...especially in the combat example. A loss for the fighter equates to further 'grinding' encounters in order to reclaim lost experience effectively repeating that battle again. So that even in the example where a battle isn't taken for granted or perceived as repetitive grinding there is a grinding component.
A small point I realize. At any rate, this is probably why I am holding off on Vanguard. Not the death penalty or corpse runs but the fact that they are simply a small part of a greater level of timesinks. Even if the battles are riveting and hectic if they amount to virtually nothing in the growth of your character so that 100's of those battles are required for effect then perhaps it is a grind.
I like the artistic vision...I really like the abundant amount of classes and races...the ships and houses and diplomacy and on and on. Yet the constant descriptions of grinding and the apparent endgame raid necessity really force me to ignore these great aspects.
Ah well perhaps I will try this game when it matures....and perhaps offers a free trial.
I really can't see a 23 gygabyte monster like VSoH having free trials,as people would be spending countless hours downloading a game they might not like. (Would suck if it took you longer to DL the game then the trial offers)
Im seeing ALOT of empty wasted space in the world with no NPCs no MOBS no house plots..nothing! It almost reminds me of SWG...I really hated the way you could walk/ride forever and never see anything.
Just want to add a comment about the landmass in VG. It doesn't seem all that big. I mean the way Brad was talking about it, he made it sound like it would be unbelievably large. But I'm finding the actual LAND mass to be only somewhat larger than what WoW provides. Most of the playable space in the game seems to be ocean.
Are you on Kojan? I thought the same thing at first then I travelled to Thestra to the north and I was pretty impressed. When I found out that Qalia is just as big I was truly amazed. Kojan is mostly ocean and will shine once more people are affording to build boats but the land mass is a little small. There's also quite a bit of sky and underground content to consider when talking of places to travel. Take the massive Trengal Keep. If you ever go there look up. You'll see a huge floating Island with dragons flying above like vultures (which incidentally have a habit of swooping down and engaging your group from time to time)
Vanguard has its pluses and minues...and what some folks love about it....others hate it.
I'm thinking LOTRO will probably be more to the OP's likeing..... Quest driven story lines (though they are going to force you to group some), smaller game world (easier to populate with new content) etc....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Thamoris " It was too hard for you ! So sad..boo hoo...you can't reach max level in a month... =( "
Im always amazed by guys who think that an MMO is tough! Because I got a family, job, and like to spend time with my wife, kids, and friends, Im supposed to be penalized. It amazes me that people who live in their mom's basement and enjoy a huge timesink (grinding) are supposed to be elitist. Okay you won you can play the 'hard' game and Ill wait for the developers to get to there senses and change the game like the developers did to EQ2.
Originally posted by kedoremos Originally posted by JT
Originally posted by rubadub you are the thing ''typical'' here. Whats typical is people who buy something whit their hard earn money, and after they notice they got riped off royally, they cant accept it, so they go on telling every one how great it is, they even try and get em to buy it to, cuz they dont wana be alone in this mess they baught. I baught it, i know i gave my money for a bad product, i am assuming it, whit dont you?
Yeah, I know exactly how you feel. I blew my hard earned money on WoW. 8.5 million people disagree.
8.5 million people don't disagree with me, they like the game so it's a good investment for them. For me it was a waste of my money, because I'm a mmog veteran who enjoys a game that offers a challenge. Not one that my 8 year daughter can play without instructions from me. She works harder to keep her grades up in school, than playing WoW.
Originally posted by _Jord_ BUMP (cause anyone I can save from this horrible game I WILL! Preorder LOTRO instead ... or give your money to charity. Don't waste it on this unfinished POS!)
Why should they put it into LOTRO? This game runs very well, the eye candy is pretty good, quest are ok. If you like a game as simplistic as WoW, then this will be good for you. If you want a challenge, then it won't be good for you.
Originally posted by _Jord_ Originally posted by parmenion I'd speculate that part of the reason LOTRO is offering it's "innovative" pay in advance for large chunks of time deals is because alot of people will love the game for a week or two, be concerned by 2-3 and finished by a month. I'm sure it will do very well in the like to solo a few hours a week demographic, if you can find enough to do there for any period of time without becoming bored rigid, good luck to you.Thanks for making a thread with such a clear agenda, but I know I and many others are quite comfortable with enjoying a game we won't have done every zone in a few weeks time. Horses for courses, there's nothing wrong with liking what you like, however trying to rationalise your personal preferences as the only sane choice is rather egotistical though. All the best.
I have no agenda. I only got into the LOTRO beta yesterday ... but it's a more polished, better looking product.
VG sucks. It's a disgrace to the software industry to release something that far from it's "ready" point. I wish I could have my $60 back.
I might send you the $60 if you'd just shut your trap.
Just want to add a comment about the landmass in VG. It doesn't seem all that big. I mean the way Brad was talking about it, he made it sound like it would be unbelievably large. But I'm finding the actual LAND mass to be only somewhat larger than what WoW provides. Most of the playable space in the game seems to be ocean.
Are you on Kojan? I thought the same thing at first then I travelled to Thestra to the north and I was pretty impressed. When I found out that Qalia is just as big I was truly amazed. Kojan is mostly ocean and will shine once more people are affording to build boats but the land mass is a little small. There's also quite a bit of sky and underground content to consider when talking of places to travel. Take the massive Trengal Keep. If you ever go there look up. You'll see a huge floating Island with dragons flying above like vultures (which incidentally have a habit of swooping down and engaging your group from time to time)
I've been on all three continents and I still think the land mass isn't as grand as people think. If you are including the underground dungeons then you need to consider all the instances in other games.
I don't know, I could be totally wrong and it could all be perception but I'll use WoW as an example. WoW has 2 continents and those 2 seem just as big as VGs two larger continents and Kojan is pretty small.
BUMP (cause anyone I can save from this horrible game I WILL! Preorder LOTRO instead ... or give your money to charity. Don't waste it on this unfinished POS!)
Who do you take yourself for? The ultimate referrance(The ultimate referrance with a low lvl)? Everbody thinks like you and want story based mmos?
1. If u want story go play a single player game, if you dont want grind go play anything other than an mmo.
I have played DoAC, DDO, WoW(2 long years on and off), EQ2(have every expansion up to date), Guildwars(awsome :P), LOTRO Beta, Lineage II C4, COH, They have all had grind! I'd say the worst was in WoW where after my 3rd alt who I just wanted to get to 60 I grinded was horrible. I don't mind grind if i'm with a nice groupe, chatting playing etc... In EQ2(my fav. so far) I didnt mind grinding to lvl 50+ because I was with friends or a groupe and we would chat while cleaing dungeons. Everybody can have their opinion on this game, its not for everybody, you have to like the combat/craft/lvling, etc... but don't go saying its a horrible game and that nobody should buy it! If you feel ripped off fine, we have all been before. Went to watch a movie that sucked, bought a game that sucked, went to a restaurant at the airport before your 8hour flight to america and bought a horrible lobster soup that made you spend it in the small toilet instead of your business class seat... Doesn't mean everybody will have the same thoughts! So fine say what you thought was wrong go tell the devs on how to improve the game getting people to sign and make the game better, dont try to remove it from the market.
I've had fun reading this post because I was really interested in this game. After having tried the LOTRO beta which I didn't like... I went to the shops picked up Vanguard. The game is buggy...fine but honestly so was WoW at its release and it still is lol. Give it some time, most mmos are bugged at the launch. It runs fine for me, tweaked it here and there. The community is good except for the few who wont stop complaining and won't just quit. I can't say much because I'm still a low level... Will come back went nearing lvl 30
Maybe I missed something, but If all you want to do is solo.. Why are you playing an MMO..
If you talk to anyone who is lvl 40 or higher, its because they have perma groups. Leveling is pretty fast if you are grouped. Solo it takes forever, which it should imo.
Maybe I missed something, but If all you want to do is solo.. Why are you playing an MMO.. If you talk to anyone who is lvl 40 or higher, its because they have perma groups. Leveling is pretty fast if you are grouped. Solo it takes forever, which it should imo.
Kinda explained alot of already but not all people play MMOs just to group with people. I know it seems the most obvious thing to do, but there are people who want to be in the crowd and not necessarily part of it. I personally like MMOs for the large worlds you can explore, the classes/races, rich lore, player-run economy, chatting to people from other parts of the world while enjoying the game etc. I do like meeting new people too, but not into grouping with people the majority of time. I don't care for the fact soloing takes longer then grouping, in fact you should be able to advance faster grouping, I just want to have fun with my playstyle and still get rewarded decently and not feel like a second-rate citizen as I often do when I used to play EQ and now VG beyond 10-15.
Comments
1. It's not WoW(probably the only MMO they can compare it to)
2. They have an outdated computer and/or do not know anything about Video settings and/or ini file tweaks
I personally am still skeptical about VG but am willing to stick with it in hopes that they can impress me with constant updates and dedication to improving the gaming experience.
WoW is deff superior in the animations department and overall fun factor(because its casual and you can lvl fast)
If you cant handle a true MMO format then continue playing WoW, GW, or COH/COV.I agree it seems like you get little for the time investment..but MMO's are supposed to take time..that way you can actually be superior to other players instead of som1 who just bought the game a week ago catching up to you. Whats the fun in that?
I agee with what thomas.hart said.
It's not wow, it's crap.
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
Thanks for making a thread with such a clear agenda, but I know I and many others are quite comfortable with enjoying a game we won't have done every zone in a few weeks time.
Horses for courses, there's nothing wrong with liking what you like, however trying to rationalise your personal preferences as the only sane choice is rather egotistical though. All the best.
OP is right! If you value your hard earned cash and your time, stay away from this game. I am not against grinding, I grinded many times in the past. There were times I even had great fun!
The issue with Vangrinding is that it makes it incredibly dull and uninteresting! I don't know how they could manage to do that. Combat is boring to death and it lacks the punch completely. It feels as if you are slicing bread instead of furiously battling. Animations are horrendously repetitive, lacks creativity and looks terrible. Not to mention the game breaking bugs, crashes, stutters and hitches. Mob models are so poorly textured and animated that you question if they are worth killing.
Also, be warned! Vanguard has the most fanatical, blinded and immature fanbois base... which means you will be grinding with them
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
VanGrind....well it is a grind, if YOU choose to make it one! I for one use these games as a back drop for RP, wow imagine that! And Vanguard has a fantastic world for RPers. And also the grinding you do in fact do is very fun, and this is something I did not expect!
But sure, if all you want to do is level level level, then this game will probably feel somewhat daunting...
VG sucks. It's a disgrace to the software industry to release something that far from it's "ready" point. I wish I could have my $60 back.
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
[quote]Originally posted by _Jord_
[b]
This is a good thing. I've been getting more than a little annoyed with WoW (where, in fact, we have a guildie named Jord upon whom we blame everything). Look at the most recent expansion. People hit the cap in about a week. 2 years from the launch of the game to the launch of its first expansion and people capped out in 7 days. Sad.
But back to the size of the world. This, among other things, has been a disturbing trend in MMOs for years now. I started out in Asheron's Call. Anyone remember when it launched in '99? I came on a month or two after that. Know what they had. A HUGE landmass. They have since added 4 small islands but by and large their monthly content updates have fleshed out that original landmass. It has changed and grown with the game.
Look at the game play it provided. In WoW if you want to level/gain money you "grind" in an area, doing loops just big enough for respawn to happen. Same scenery over and over. And when you outlevel it or someone else comes along you move to the next loop along the line. In AC you picked a starting town, an ending town, and you ran cross country, picking fights along the way. No loops, no same spawning mobs. No same scenery. In fact even with the same starting and ending towns you could find dozens of ways to go.
MMORPG designers have forgotten the first word in their genre's title. MASSIVELY. It doesn't just mean multiplayer because in today's market of uber-instanced, tightly controlled, mini-worlds there is no massive to it, certainly not multiplayer. I mean think about it. I could go play on a 24 man Counter-Strike: Source server and have more players around me most of the time than I would WoW's 5 and 10 man instances. 5 and 10 players is massive? Since when? It makes the world outside the instance little more than a pretty server browser.
Have I played Vanguard? Not yet, no. Debating whether I want to buy it or wait for a demo in 6 months time. But I just had to chime in because I hear, time and again, that the large empty world is a bad thing. I see it as a huge positive and a step back in the right direction for MMOs. Put the massive back in. Massive landmass should be the first goal of any MMO, period.
Not just another pretty color.
I really can't see a 23 gygabyte monster like VSoH having free trials,as people would be spending countless hours downloading a game they might not like. (Would suck if it took you longer to DL the game then the trial offers)
23gig? mine is only 16 ..
Im seeing ALOT of empty wasted space in the world with no NPCs no MOBS no house plots..nothing! It almost reminds me of SWG...I really hated the way you could walk/ride forever and never see anything.
I'm thinking LOTRO will probably be more to the OP's likeing..... Quest driven story lines (though they are going to force you to group some), smaller game world (easier to populate with new content) etc....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Thamoris " It was too hard for you ! So sad..boo hoo...you can't reach max level in a month... =( "
Im always amazed by guys who think that an MMO is tough! Because I got a family, job, and like to spend time with my wife, kids, and friends, Im supposed to be penalized. It amazes me that people who live in their mom's basement and enjoy a huge timesink (grinding) are supposed to be elitist. Okay you won you can play the 'hard' game and Ill wait for the developers to get to there senses and change the game like the developers did to EQ2.
8.5 million people disagree.
8.5 million people don't disagree with me, they like the game so it's a good investment for them. For me it was a waste of my money, because I'm a mmog veteran who enjoys a game that offers a challenge. Not one that my 8 year daughter can play without instructions from me. She works harder to keep her grades up in school, than playing WoW.
Why should they put it into LOTRO? This game runs very well, the eye candy is pretty good, quest are ok. If you like a game as simplistic as WoW, then this will be good for you. If you want a challenge, then it won't be good for you.
VG sucks. It's a disgrace to the software industry to release something that far from it's "ready" point. I wish I could have my $60 back.
I might send you the $60 if you'd just shut your trap.
I've been on all three continents and I still think the land mass isn't as grand as people think. If you are including the underground dungeons then you need to consider all the instances in other games.
I don't know, I could be totally wrong and it could all be perception but I'll use WoW as an example. WoW has 2 continents and those 2 seem just as big as VGs two larger continents and Kojan is pretty small.
As far as the adventuring 'grind'...just play the game and don't worry about XP. Its not a race to max level.
There's lots of content to enjoy, quests to do, groups to hook up with. Concentrate on that and the XP will come.
/agree
1. If u want story go play a single player game, if you dont want grind go play anything other than an mmo.
I have played DoAC, DDO, WoW(2 long years on and off), EQ2(have every expansion up to date), Guildwars(awsome :P), LOTRO Beta, Lineage II C4, COH, They have all had grind! I'd say the worst was in WoW where after my 3rd alt who I just wanted to get to 60 I grinded was horrible. I don't mind grind if i'm with a nice groupe, chatting playing etc... In EQ2(my fav. so far) I didnt mind grinding to lvl 50+ because I was with friends or a groupe and we would chat while cleaing dungeons. Everybody can have their opinion on this game, its not for everybody, you have to like the combat/craft/lvling, etc... but don't go saying its a horrible game and that nobody should buy it! If you feel ripped off fine, we have all been before. Went to watch a movie that sucked, bought a game that sucked, went to a restaurant at the airport before your 8hour flight to america and bought a horrible lobster soup that made you spend it in the small toilet instead of your business class seat... Doesn't mean everybody will have the same thoughts! So fine say what you thought was wrong go tell the devs on how to improve the game getting people to sign and make the game better, dont try to remove it from the market.
I've had fun reading this post because I was really interested in this game. After having tried the LOTRO beta
Maybe I missed something, but If all you want to do is solo.. Why are you playing an MMO..
If you talk to anyone who is lvl 40 or higher, its because they have perma groups. Leveling is pretty fast if you are grouped. Solo it takes forever, which it should imo.
Kinda explained alot of already but not all people play MMOs just to group with people. I know it seems the most obvious thing to do, but there are people who want to be in the crowd and not necessarily part of it. I personally like MMOs for the large worlds you can explore, the classes/races, rich lore, player-run economy, chatting to people from other parts of the world while enjoying the game etc. I do like meeting new people too, but not into grouping with people the majority of time. I don't care for the fact soloing takes longer then grouping, in fact you should be able to advance faster grouping, I just want to have fun with my playstyle and still get rewarded decently and not feel like a second-rate citizen as I often do when I used to play EQ and now VG beyond 10-15.