As for timesinks......are your utterly insane ? Have you tried grinding in Lineage 2 ? Or faction grinding in WoW ? Vanguards so called timesinks are easy compared to many other games. Especially the faction grinding. Evidentally you were expecting some WoW clone, and should now just go cry back back to middle school because to be quite honest....Vanguard is for the big boys and girls, and we are loving it.
I usually don't make comments like this but...
What a wonderful way to represent the "mature" community of Vanguard... If the so called big boys and girls in VG are like this, then there's no hope for the game.
haha.. so true.
Come on, take it like a man..or girl...depending...
And one of the reasons that VG is turning off a lot of people is comments like that. I am sick of hearing about WOW, and the flaws and grind in VG being justified by pointing to other games. This game was SUPPOSED to be different - but it is not.
Ok, hit me with this one...how different is a fantasy themed game suppose to be? I was worried at first because i thought it would be just like eq2...I was asking why...but as i played it i noticed alot of different things. combat was different..housing..ships and crafting...different but the same in a way.
There is almost nothing original in it, the quests are nearly all "kill-a-rat" missions, the NPC dialogue is so bad I turned it off, and it is full of artificial time sinks, such as the long travel times.
nearly all...I may agree with you but like i said in another post...There is only so much an MMO can do with the quest system. vanguard system has its quirks but overall its the same as EVERY OTHER GAME. Something im use too and not having a flying fit because i was not hit with something revolutionary.
One thing I thought was kind of funny on the VG official site is that they say something about a huge world to explore. But that world all looks the same, and if you really DO try to explore it, you end up with tons of XP debt
Oh be a man again...or girl depending...dont know. There are lot of things to see ... and run into ... it reminds me of eq1 when i had to be REALLY careful when walking through a zone. It is huge...massive even. People say its a timesink ... OK sure lets make the world about 3 blocks long like LOTR MMO and you just have to run 10 feet back and forth killing monsters that pop up...that would be great...or zone it with inviso walls so you cant walk over that hill. Sure, big fun.
I have a station account, so cancelling is a moot point for me, but at most I will drop in once or twice a week to see if anything has gotten any better.
It is possible that the Dev's ganked stuff from other games. True. So that means only vanguard did it bad? Just because vanguard did its version of the quest it was horrible? Im sure they took alot of ideas from both games and more. (I would have.) Everyone stole from EQ1 and they stole from other games and books. its not poor content...re-thought perhaps...but not bad. I said in another post there really isnt alot of innovation MMO's can peform with the Quest system....unless something revolutionary happens...and i have not seen it in any game. I liked the way the quest line was done in vanguard ... and yes you did bring back some memories of sort of similar quests ... the screaming ... ah the screaming.
The whole point is, Brad/Vg hyped us for months, even years, about how VG was going to be the 3rd generation, and would be full of new stuff. I don't see any new stuff, all I see is old stuff repackaged.
And quests CAN be innovative - EQ2 has quite a few, and so do the more recent expansions of EQ1.
It is possible that the Dev's ganked stuff from other games. True. So that means only vanguard did it bad? Just because vanguard did its version of the quest it was horrible? Im sure they took alot of ideas from both games and more. (I would have.) Everyone stole from EQ1 and they stole from other games and books. its not poor content...re-thought perhaps...but not bad. I said in another post there really isnt alot of innovation MMO's can peform with the Quest system....unless something revolutionary happens...and i have not seen it in any game. I liked the way the quest line was done in vanguard ... and yes you did bring back some memories of sort of similar quests ... the screaming ... ah the screaming.
The whole point is, Brad/Vg hyped us for months, even years, about how VG was going to be the 3rd generation, and would be full of new stuff. I don't see any new stuff, all I see is old stuff repackaged.
Ok, that 3rd generation thing again. What is that? Kinda like the "next generation" or the "x-generation" something? Well i do like the housing thing...I do like the boat thing..I do like the lore that i can find...I do like the combat ideas as soon as i get a hang of it...I do like diplomacy...I do like the large world. Good stuff there. What were you expecting? For it to jack in your head or something?
And quests CAN be innovative - EQ2 has quite a few, and so do the more recent expansions of EQ1.
Yea, EQ2 has some good ones...EQ2 team is working on vanguard and can only make it better + added with the nice graphics will make it wonderful in time ... - some problems im sure. The new EQ1 expansion strangly enough has the same ideas and stuff that Vanguard was talking about ... fellowships (not in yet), Caravaans (vanguard has it) ships (limited) and boat to boat combat. (dont know how that works in eq1 but they were talking about it in vanguard and im sure the code is there as they are using in eq1)
The worst part about this , Brad Mcquaid probably let his team make the game and they came up short. Who get's all the blame , P.R. Ceo's If I was brad Mcquaid , everyone would be fired except for the person who designed the skies and the trees.
Brad is in charge. It's his vision. If the game fails, the blame falls completely on him. If the employees under him didn't perform, it's his fault as a manager as well. The blame always goes to the top.
I cancelled WoW before VG came out. I played beta, which soon became live (but should have remained beta). I cancelled VG less than 2 weeks into launch. It has great potential, but I have no interest in paying to play it in it's current form, and I'll probably find something more suitable to my interests before it's in a better state.
Cancelled. Bugs are annoying, but not the main issue for me. I can't muster the time or interest to play VANGUARD beyond the first month. I don't want to have to spend 20-40 hours a week to keep up with the majority of core/hardcore players that this game is attracting. And certain things that have been discussed at length on the forums just feel wrong to me, like the animations, discordant art direction and Sigil's odd handling of patches and customer service. It seems like a cool game that I might have gotten into ten years ago when I was younger and more aggressive about gaming. But now i just want to kick back and have some fun in a game, without feeling pressure to perform in order to be a part of the community. LOTRO here I come!
The funny thing is it's not attracting the "core" players that Brad thought he was appealing to (and very mistaken he was). About the only ones it appeals to are the obsessed players who crave a game that allows them to lead in levels simply by nature of time spent.
Talk to members of the old time top Everquest guilds (FoH, Afterlife, Conquest, etc) and you'll find NONE of them are moving to Vanguard. Why? Because contrary to what Brad and team hoped, what made Everquest great (or kept people playing) wasn't the timesinks, grinding for exp or the lack of any user friendly features. What kept people playing EQ was the lack of any alternatives and decent raiding content (when it worked).
Why do you think EVERY top guild left EQ and flocked to WoW....
Yep, too bad Brad won't figure that out until too late.
Someone else in this thread suggested that I should just quit MMOs for feeling this way about VANGUARD. I never played EQ so I didn't know how the two games compared. It's nice to know that its not just a matter of me being too picky or too much of wimp to spend hours plowing through mind-numbingly dull gameplay. I got three character over level 10, one of them to 14, and did a mix of grouping and soloing with guildmates and random players. That's all I needed to see to know that all this talk about VANGUARD being the sophisticated and challenging alternative to "kiddie" games like WOW is hogwash. I've love to see an intelligent and intuitive MMO that is fun while also rewarding the use of your brain more than your tolerence for caffinated beverages. VANGUARD ain't it.
I just canceled a couple of hours ago. I thought Vanguard would be slightly different from the standard "whack-a-mole" MMO gameplay, but alas, it isn't. I think VG finally convinced me that MMOs are *finally* getting stale for me (although Tabula Rasa sounds interesting... andso it begins.... again. )
Those of you that cancelled should just go back to WoW. VSOH was never for you, obviously. It takes real skill to play. Bugs? Hardly. There are no bugs, that is just a conspiracy story released by the left-wing blizzard propaganda machine.
It is part of their agenda to destroy the greatest MMO ever created, VSOH. The truth is they want McQuaid working for them.
As for timesinks......are your utterly insane ? Have you tried grinding in Lineage 2 ? Or faction grinding in WoW ? Vanguards so called timesinks are easy compared to many other games. Especially the faction grinding. Evidentally you were expecting some WoW clone, and should now just go cry back back to middle school because to be quite honest....Vanguard is for the big boys and girls, and we are loving it.
I usually don't make comments like this but...
What a wonderful way to represent the "mature" community of Vanguard... If the so called big boys and girls in VG are like this, then there's no hope for the game.
Actually I was dumbing my comments down to the previous posters level so they'd understand it Stevon's comments are a childish whine that Vanguard is not like WoW, but is like Everquest. Frankly I deal with immature whines in the manner that they are delivered unto us.
Vanguard is a great game brought to us by the same team that made Everquest. Expecting it to be a WoW clone is idiotic, and whining about it in the manner that Stevon did is a waste of good text as he is making it out to be some Lineage 2 grindfest. Which it is not. If he doesn't like it.....fine. Just don't make up crap about it because its not like WoW.
And the small group he is referring to is what we longtime beta players refer to as the Everquest Mafia. They have basically been silenced by the other beta players and mostly by Brad himself telling them that ....to put it bluntly..."its Sigil's game and they will make it how they damn well feel like it !!"
If you don't like it...fine, go play something else. If you do like it great, I might see you on Gelenia (EU server). But Vanguard is not a game aimed at children, but older players.
Those of you that cancelled should just go back to WoW. VSOH was never for you, obviously. It takes real skill to play. Bugs? Hardly. There are no bugs, that is just a conspiracy story released by the left-wing blizzard propaganda machine. It is part of their agenda to destroy the greatest MMO ever created, VSOH. The truth is they want McQuaid working for them.
The sad thing is that there are actually some people that really mean stuff like this. I can't coun't how many times I've seen "Go back to WoW." on Vanguard forums. In fact, someone told me that exact same sentence 30 minutes after VG's RP server was open. Pretty sad.
As for timesinks......are your utterly insane ? Have you tried grinding in Lineage 2 ? Or faction grinding in WoW ? Vanguards so called timesinks are easy compared to many other games. Especially the faction grinding. Evidentally you were expecting some WoW clone, and should now just go cry back back to middle school because to be quite honest....Vanguard is for the big boys and girls, and we are loving it.
I usually don't make comments like this but...
What a wonderful way to represent the "mature" community of Vanguard... If the so called big boys and girls in VG are like this, then there's no hope for the game.
Actually I was dumbing my comments down to the previous posters level so they'd understand it Stevon's comments are a childish whine that Vanguard is not like WoW, but is like Everquest. Frankly I deal with immature whines in the manner that they are delivered unto us.
Vanguard is a great game brought to us by the same team that made Everquest. Expecting it to be a WoW clone is idiotic, and whining about it in the manner that Stevon did is a waste of good text as he is making it out to be some Lineage 2 grindfest. Which it is not. If he doesn't like it.....fine. Just don't make up crap about it because its not like WoW.
And the small group he is referring to is what we longtime beta players refer to as the Everquest Mafia. They have basically been silenced by the other beta players and mostly by Brad himself telling them that ....to put it bluntly..."its Sigil's game and they will make it how they damn well feel like it !!"
If you don't like it...fine, go play something else. If you do like it great, I might see you on Gelenia (EU server). But Vanguard is not a game aimed at children, but older players.
Nice try. McQuaid has been quoted as saying "Vanguard is for the every gamer." The truth is Sigil doesn't know what the fuck they want. Expect a complete overhaul of experience gain and combat mechanics in a few months.
Funny thing is find more of the so called "older gamers" are less mature than the younger crowd.
I don't understand why people who defend Vanguard always resort to "go back to WoW since this game isn't for you or you're not good enough for this game" (other variations as well).
I played WoW but stopped playing after a few months. Even though I quit, I still think WoW is a great game and offers a lot to gamers. And the game can be challenging. I don't know, maybe it's a jealousy thing or something... Anyways, responses like that do nothing to help VG.
Those of you that cancelled should just go back to WoW. VSOH was never for you, obviously. It takes real skill to play. Bugs? Hardly. There are no bugs, that is just a conspiracy story released by the left-wing blizzard propaganda machine. It is part of their agenda to destroy the greatest MMO ever created, VSOH. The truth is they want McQuaid working for them.
The sad thing is that there are actually some people that really mean stuff like this. I can't coun't how many times I've seen "Go back to WoW." on Vanguard forums. In fact, someone told me that exact same sentence 30 minutes after VG's RP server was open. Pretty sad.
Tbh I think you are missing the sarcasm in Vanguardlol's post. But I get the point you yourself are making. And those individuals you are refering to would be the EQ Mafia again. Rabid bunch of hardcore EQ players. They normally start off whining about how EQ was changed and this was then crap and that was crap. They shutup once the SWG players go "cough NGE cough", as they know they can't match the crap
The only problems I see with Vanguard are:
1. The EQ Mafia (they are ignored but still whine a bit but will eventually shutup)
2. Performance isn't quite perfect yet but it is coming along in leaps and bounds.
3. Too many people expecting too much. This is a fantasy MMORPG. They are not splitting the atom or inventing the wheel. Many things will be similar to other games. And for those who claim that they pinched something from WoW or EQ2, ask yourself where those games stole those idea's from ? Answer: Mostly from EQ, which Brad and co made, so they are simply inserting 'classic' material.
4. Rude people....fact of gaming, they are in EVERY game. I've come across rude, ignorant, and ignoring people in SWG, EQ2, Lineage2, RFO, WoW, and a half dozen other games I've beta tested. They are everywhere. Just learn to live with them.
Nice try. McQuaid has been quoted as saying "Vanguard is for the every gamer." The truth is Sigil doesn't know what the fuck they want. Expect a complete overhaul of experience gain and combat mechanics in a few months. Funny thing is find more of the so called "older gamers" are less mature than the younger crowd.
LOL and see the SWG players who have flooded to Vanguard, flood right back out again
Brad has already been told during beta several times that the letters CU or NGE appearing anywhere to do with Vanguard will kill his game.
Still playing, still enjoying, nothing much on my wanted MMO's coming out until a few months so I'll be here at least that long.
Also Thisgamesux why did you bother to create an a/c just to rubbish a game/people? I had a quick glance at a few of you previous posts and from what I can tell there 95-100% negative. Is there any MMO you like?
If yes, how about you write a positive post about it, just so we can see your not Mr negative, and do actually enjoy MMO's.
I just canceled a couple of hours ago. I thought Vanguard would be slightly different from the standard "whack-a-mole" MMO gameplay, but alas, it isn't. I think VG finally convinced me that MMOs are *finally* getting stale for me (although Tabula Rasa sounds interesting... andso it begins.... again. )
Understand that people pay for games and all ... I have paid for tons of games ...some good, some not so good, some just down right bad ... and i have lived to tell the tale. Yes i am alive and well.
Personally I really think after visiting these boards that people have ADD or expect to much from things. They want the world from their graphics card and low budget computer...they want the next generation MMO without really understanding what that means or what kind of work goes into making them. Most MMO have more producion time them some movies.
In all fairness these games are great works of art and design that probably none of us could ever accomplish in our life times. I give them praise for at least that attempt to entertain us.. Vanguard has created a wonderful world that should and i am sure will appeal to some people ... I am almost 100% positive that it will improve over time despite the bad mouthing it gets here ... or the fact that LOTR MMO is coming out.
I mean some people like Second Life ... I don't ... Just taste is all.
Yes i give that praise to even WOW/SWG and (Blah..bad taste in my mouth) Dark and Light..which happens the be one of the worst examples of MMO management of all time.
I just canceled a couple of hours ago. I thought Vanguard would be slightly different from the standard "whack-a-mole" MMO gameplay, but alas, it isn't. I think VG finally convinced me that MMOs are *finally* getting stale for me (although Tabula Rasa sounds interesting... andso it begins.... again. )
Understand that people pay for games and all ... I have paid for tons of games ...some good, some not so good, some just down right bad ... and i have lived to tell the tale. Yes i am alive and well.
Personally I really think after visiting these boards that people have ADD or expect to much from things. They want the world from their graphics card and low budget computer...they want the next generation MMO without really understanding what that means or what kind of work goes into making them. Most MMO have more producion time them some movies.
In all fairness these games are great works of art and design that probably none of us could ever accomplish in our life times. I give them praise for at least that attempt to entertain us.. Vanguard has created a wonderful world that should and i am sure will appeal to some people ... I am almost 100% positive that it will improve over time despite the bad mouthing it gets here ... or the fact that LOTR MMO is coming out.
I mean some people like Second Life ... I don't ... Just taste is all.
Yes i give that praise to even WOW/SWG and (Blah..bad taste in my mouth) Dark and Light..which happens the be one of the worst examples of MMO management of all time.
Expecting too much? More like expecting too little. Games are becoming more and more stale because not many people expect enough! Most people will buy awful rehashed crap; just look at all the bloody games based on movies they are more then terrible but people still buy them We want an MMO that takes MMOs to a new level, dynamic, alive, exciting and detailed, a MMO that's really worth every dollar of our monthly fee.
Cancelled... to bad I can't return the game. What's worse (and embarrassing) is I should have known how I'd feel, I played in beta.
The game is nothing at all like we envisioned it would be a year ago. Brad's obsession with Blizzard hating and his inability to unhook himself from his belief that Everquest was a "perfect" game, has essentially doomed Vanguard. They've managed to take what could have been a fantastic and challenging game and turn it into an example of monotony and timesinks taken to the level of absurdity.
Vanguard testament is a to the Sigil team's philosophy of using timesinks and grinding out levels in order to hide the lack of content (and poor content it is.)
I have no sympathy for Brad and team. They we're told what would happen if they listened to the vocal minority and now they need to live with it. Whatever hope they had of retaining a smidgen of subscribers who are unsatisfied with WoW will be lost when LOTRO comes out in a couple months (not to mention pre-order subscribers).
As for me I'm pretty pissed that they bastardized the promise the game had into the poorly executed and shoddy example of a game it is today.
Vanguard, good riddance.
LOL ta ta then WoW has a very distinct and independant style. And tbh what did you expect from the guy who created EQ ?? A WoW Clone ?? Of course not. EQ isn't just the style that Brad emulates, EQ IS Brad. Thus you will get a similar style in Vanguard.
Which tbh, I have no problem with. (No I never played EQ, but I dallied with EQ2 for a short while,) I've been in since beta stage 3 and Im loving it. The graphics are fantastic, the gameplay is fun, and even though it released early there are fewer bugs than in SWG a year after its release. (And I played that for 2 years.....and its still bug ridden)
As for timesinks......are your utterly insane ? Have you tried grinding in Lineage 2 ? Or faction grinding in WoW ? Vanguards so called timesinks are easy compared to many other games. Especially the faction grinding. Evidentally you were expecting some WoW clone, and should now just go cry back back to middle school because to be quite honest....Vanguard is for the big boys and girls, and we are loving it.
Have I tried grinding in Lineage 2? Hell no, why would I? Faction grinding in WoW? Nope, there's no need. Vanguard's timesinks are shit because you get no where without them. In WoW the "grind" is insignificant compared to Vanguard and you have a LOT of story and content to make that grind bearable (what little of a grind there is). Add to that the FAR better story in WoW and you start to understand the difference between quality (WoW) and, well, shoddy design and execution (Vanguard).
I don't expect a WoW clone, none of us do. What we expect is quality content, story and production. Not to mention NOT expecting hiding the lack of such behind endless grinds and group only content that further slows progression. Welcome to Everquest revisited.
Cancelled... to bad I can't return the game. What's worse (and embarrassing) is I should have known how I'd feel, I played in beta.
The game is nothing at all like we envisioned it would be a year ago. Brad's obsession with Blizzard hating and his inability to unhook himself from his belief that Everquest was a "perfect" game, has essentially doomed Vanguard. They've managed to take what could have been a fantastic and challenging game and turn it into an example of monotony and timesinks taken to the level of absurdity.
Vanguard testament is a to the Sigil team's philosophy of using timesinks and grinding out levels in order to hide the lack of content (and poor content it is.)
I have no sympathy for Brad and team. They we're told what would happen if they listened to the vocal minority and now they need to live with it. Whatever hope they had of retaining a smidgen of subscribers who are unsatisfied with WoW will be lost when LOTRO comes out in a couple months (not to mention pre-order subscribers).
As for me I'm pretty pissed that they bastardized the promise the game had into the poorly executed and shoddy example of a game it is today.
Vanguard, good riddance.
Your feelings are a lot like mine.
I was on the VG forums ever since the first day, and was really anticipating the game. I guess you could say I was one of the original Vangurls.
But gradually, especially in the last year or so, we started getting more hype and less beef. For a while Brad would come on the VG forums almost daily to post screenshots and tell us what was "going" to be in the game. But none of that ever seemed to quite actually make into the game...
IMO, the main thing that made VG such a mess was that Brad refused to look at reality, and got all his input from the diehard "EQ died with Velious (or whatever expansion people hated)" fanatics. And then the "I need PVP" screamers started, so they changed direction yet again.
And early EQ was FAR from a perfect game - it had numerous flaws, and had tons of deliberate time sinks that were for the sole purpose of slowing players down - and he carried that same flawed "Vision" to Vanguard.
Despite all the attention the bugs are getting, the bugs are not my issues. It is the content. And the content is mediocre at best.
And of course, one question that is still not answered is - Did the world REALLY need yet another Elf/Dwarf fantasy game ?
Good question. I'm not in the beta but I hear that LOTRO has a good shot of bringing back the enjoyment of the genre, along with attention to detail and quality that made WoW such a success.... without the cartoonish feel. So I still hold out hope.
To be honest I would have liked to see a SWG type game without all the failings of SWG . But who knows what the future might hold.
The worst part about this , Brad Mcquaid probably let his team make the game and they came up short. Who get's all the blame , P.R. Ceo's If I was brad Mcquaid , everyone would be fired except for the person who designed the skies and the trees.
Brad is THE problem, and this is direct from people who know and work with Brad daily. Brad has a known obsession with "hating" WoW and Blizzard (contrary to his spin doctoring publicly). It's this that is the core rot that is killing (or has killed) Vanguard.
Comments
What a wonderful way to represent the "mature" community of Vanguard... If the so called big boys and girls in VG are like this, then there's no hope for the game.
haha.. so true.
Come on, take it like a man..or girl...depending...
And one of the reasons that VG is turning off a lot of people is comments like that. I am sick of hearing about WOW, and the flaws and grind in VG being justified by pointing to other games. This game was SUPPOSED to be different - but it is not.
Ok, hit me with this one...how different is a fantasy themed game suppose to be? I was worried at first because i thought it would be just like eq2...I was asking why...but as i played it i noticed alot of different things. combat was different..housing..ships and crafting...different but the same in a way.
There is almost nothing original in it, the quests are nearly all "kill-a-rat" missions, the NPC dialogue is so bad I turned it off, and it is full of artificial time sinks, such as the long travel times.
nearly all...I may agree with you but like i said in another post...There is only so much an MMO can do with the quest system. vanguard system has its quirks but overall its the same as EVERY OTHER GAME. Something im use too and not having a flying fit because i was not hit with something revolutionary.
One thing I thought was kind of funny on the VG official site is that they say something about a huge world to explore. But that world all looks the same, and if you really DO try to explore it, you end up with tons of XP debt
Oh be a man again...or girl depending...dont know. There are lot of things to see ... and run into ... it reminds me of eq1 when i had to be REALLY careful when walking through a zone. It is huge...massive even. People say its a timesink ... OK sure lets make the world about 3 blocks long like LOTR MMO and you just have to run 10 feet back and forth killing monsters that pop up...that would be great...or zone it with inviso walls so you cant walk over that hill. Sure, big fun.
I have a station account, so cancelling is a moot point for me, but at most I will drop in once or twice a week to see if anything has gotten any better.
The whole point is, Brad/Vg hyped us for months, even years, about how VG was going to be the 3rd generation, and would be full of new stuff. I don't see any new stuff, all I see is old stuff repackaged.
And quests CAN be innovative - EQ2 has quite a few, and so do the more recent expansions of EQ1.
QFT.
The whole point is, Brad/Vg hyped us for months, even years, about how VG was going to be the 3rd generation, and would be full of new stuff. I don't see any new stuff, all I see is old stuff repackaged.
Ok, that 3rd generation thing again. What is that? Kinda like the "next generation" or the "x-generation" something? Well i do like the housing thing...I do like the boat thing..I do like the lore that i can find...I do like the combat ideas as soon as i get a hang of it...I do like diplomacy...I do like the large world. Good stuff there. What were you expecting? For it to jack in your head or something?
And quests CAN be innovative - EQ2 has quite a few, and so do the more recent expansions of EQ1.
Yea, EQ2 has some good ones...EQ2 team is working on vanguard and can only make it better + added with the nice graphics will make it wonderful in time ... - some problems im sure. The new EQ1 expansion strangly enough has the same ideas and stuff that Vanguard was talking about ... fellowships (not in yet), Caravaans (vanguard has it) ships (limited) and boat to boat combat. (dont know how that works in eq1 but they were talking about it in vanguard and im sure the code is there as they are using in eq1)
im in lotro beta test and is much better!
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Talk to members of the old time top Everquest guilds (FoH, Afterlife, Conquest, etc) and you'll find NONE of them are moving to Vanguard. Why? Because contrary to what Brad and team hoped, what made Everquest great (or kept people playing) wasn't the timesinks, grinding for exp or the lack of any user friendly features. What kept people playing EQ was the lack of any alternatives and decent raiding content (when it worked).
Why do you think EVERY top guild left EQ and flocked to WoW....
Yep, too bad Brad won't figure that out until too late.
Someone else in this thread suggested that I should just quit MMOs for feeling this way about VANGUARD. I never played EQ so I didn't know how the two games compared. It's nice to know that its not just a matter of me being too picky or too much of wimp to spend hours plowing through mind-numbingly dull gameplay. I got three character over level 10, one of them to 14, and did a mix of grouping and soloing with guildmates and random players. That's all I needed to see to know that all this talk about VANGUARD being the sophisticated and challenging alternative to "kiddie" games like WOW is hogwash. I've love to see an intelligent and intuitive MMO that is fun while also rewarding the use of your brain more than your tolerence for caffinated beverages. VANGUARD ain't it.
Those of you that cancelled should just go back to WoW. VSOH was never for you, obviously. It takes real skill to play. Bugs? Hardly. There are no bugs, that is just a conspiracy story released by the left-wing blizzard propaganda machine.
It is part of their agenda to destroy the greatest MMO ever created, VSOH. The truth is they want McQuaid working for them.
What a wonderful way to represent the "mature" community of Vanguard... If the so called big boys and girls in VG are like this, then there's no hope for the game.
Actually I was dumbing my comments down to the previous posters level so they'd understand it
Stevon's comments are a childish whine that Vanguard is not like WoW, but is like Everquest. Frankly I deal with immature whines in the manner that they are delivered unto us.
Vanguard is a great game brought to us by the same team that made Everquest. Expecting it to be a WoW clone is idiotic, and whining about it in the manner that Stevon did is a waste of good text as he is making it out to be some Lineage 2 grindfest. Which it is not. If he doesn't like it.....fine. Just don't make up crap about it because its not like WoW.
And the small group he is referring to is what we longtime beta players refer to as the Everquest Mafia. They have basically been silenced by the other beta players and mostly by Brad himself telling them that ....to put it bluntly..."its Sigil's game and they will make it how they damn well feel like it !!"
If you don't like it...fine, go play something else. If you do like it great, I might see you on Gelenia (EU server). But Vanguard is not a game aimed at children, but older players.
What a wonderful way to represent the "mature" community of Vanguard... If the so called big boys and girls in VG are like this, then there's no hope for the game.
Actually I was dumbing my comments down to the previous posters level so they'd understand it
Stevon's comments are a childish whine that Vanguard is not like WoW, but is like Everquest. Frankly I deal with immature whines in the manner that they are delivered unto us.
Vanguard is a great game brought to us by the same team that made Everquest. Expecting it to be a WoW clone is idiotic, and whining about it in the manner that Stevon did is a waste of good text as he is making it out to be some Lineage 2 grindfest. Which it is not. If he doesn't like it.....fine. Just don't make up crap about it because its not like WoW.
And the small group he is referring to is what we longtime beta players refer to as the Everquest Mafia. They have basically been silenced by the other beta players and mostly by Brad himself telling them that ....to put it bluntly..."its Sigil's game and they will make it how they damn well feel like it !!"
If you don't like it...fine, go play something else. If you do like it great, I might see you on Gelenia (EU server). But Vanguard is not a game aimed at children, but older players.
Nice try. McQuaid has been quoted as saying "Vanguard is for the every gamer." The truth is Sigil doesn't know what the fuck they want. Expect a complete overhaul of experience gain and combat mechanics in a few months.
Funny thing is find more of the so called "older gamers" are less mature than the younger crowd.
I played WoW but stopped playing after a few months. Even though I quit, I still think WoW is a great game and offers a lot to gamers. And the game can be challenging. I don't know, maybe it's a jealousy thing or something... Anyways, responses like that do nothing to help VG.
Tbh I think you are missing the sarcasm in Vanguardlol's post. But I get the point you yourself are making. And those individuals you are refering to would be the EQ Mafia again. Rabid bunch of hardcore EQ players. They normally start off whining about how EQ was changed and this was then crap and that was crap. They shutup once the SWG players go "cough NGE cough", as they know they can't match the crap
The only problems I see with Vanguard are:
1. The EQ Mafia (they are ignored but still whine a bit but will eventually shutup)
2. Performance isn't quite perfect yet but it is coming along in leaps and bounds.
3. Too many people expecting too much. This is a fantasy MMORPG. They are not splitting the atom or inventing the wheel. Many things will be similar to other games. And for those who claim that they pinched something from WoW or EQ2, ask yourself where those games stole those idea's from ? Answer: Mostly from EQ, which Brad and co made, so they are simply inserting 'classic' material.
4. Rude people....fact of gaming, they are in EVERY game. I've come across rude, ignorant, and ignoring people in SWG, EQ2, Lineage2, RFO, WoW, and a half dozen other games I've beta tested. They are everywhere. Just learn to live with them.
LOL and see the SWG players who have flooded to Vanguard, flood right back out again
Brad has already been told during beta several times that the letters CU or NGE appearing anywhere to do with Vanguard will kill his game.
Also Thisgamesux why did you bother to create an a/c just to rubbish a game/people? I had a quick glance at a few of you previous posts and from what I can tell there 95-100% negative. Is there any MMO you like?
If yes, how about you write a positive post about it, just so we can see your not Mr negative, and do actually enjoy MMO's.
Understand that people pay for games and all ... I have paid for tons of games ...some good, some not so good, some just down right bad ... and i have lived to tell the tale. Yes i am alive and well.
Personally I really think after visiting these boards that people have ADD or expect to much from things. They want the world from their graphics card and low budget computer...they want the next generation MMO without really understanding what that means or what kind of work goes into making them. Most MMO have more producion time them some movies.
In all fairness these games are great works of art and design that probably none of us could ever accomplish in our life times. I give them praise for at least that attempt to entertain us.. Vanguard has created a wonderful world that should and i am sure will appeal to some people ... I am almost 100% positive that it will improve over time despite the bad mouthing it gets here ... or the fact that LOTR MMO is coming out.
I mean some people like Second Life ... I don't ... Just taste is all.
Yes i give that praise to even WOW/SWG and (Blah..bad taste in my mouth) Dark and Light..which happens the be one of the worst examples of MMO management of all time.
Understand that people pay for games and all ... I have paid for tons of games ...some good, some not so good, some just down right bad ... and i have lived to tell the tale. Yes i am alive and well.
Personally I really think after visiting these boards that people have ADD or expect to much from things. They want the world from their graphics card and low budget computer...they want the next generation MMO without really understanding what that means or what kind of work goes into making them. Most MMO have more producion time them some movies.
In all fairness these games are great works of art and design that probably none of us could ever accomplish in our life times. I give them praise for at least that attempt to entertain us.. Vanguard has created a wonderful world that should and i am sure will appeal to some people ... I am almost 100% positive that it will improve over time despite the bad mouthing it gets here ... or the fact that LOTR MMO is coming out.
I mean some people like Second Life ... I don't ... Just taste is all.
Yes i give that praise to even WOW/SWG and (Blah..bad taste in my mouth) Dark and Light..which happens the be one of the worst examples of MMO management of all time.
Expecting too much? More like expecting too little. Games are becoming more and more stale because not many people expect enough! Most people will buy awful rehashed crap; just look at all the bloody games based on movies they are more then terrible but people still buy them
We want an MMO that takes MMOs to a new level, dynamic, alive, exciting and detailed, a MMO that's really worth every dollar of our monthly fee.
LOL ta ta then
WoW has a very distinct and independant style. And tbh what did you expect from the guy who created EQ ?? A WoW Clone ?? Of course not. EQ isn't just the style that Brad emulates, EQ IS Brad. Thus you will get a similar style in Vanguard.
Which tbh, I have no problem with. (No I never played EQ, but I dallied with EQ2 for a short while,) I've been in since beta stage 3 and Im loving it. The graphics are fantastic, the gameplay is fun, and even though it released early there are fewer bugs than in SWG a year after its release. (And I played that for 2 years.....and its still bug ridden)
As for timesinks......are your utterly insane ? Have you tried grinding in Lineage 2 ? Or faction grinding in WoW ? Vanguards so called timesinks are easy compared to many other games. Especially the faction grinding. Evidentally you were expecting some WoW clone, and should now just go cry back back to middle school because to be quite honest....Vanguard is for the big boys and girls, and we are loving it.
Have I tried grinding in Lineage 2? Hell no, why would I? Faction grinding in WoW? Nope, there's no need. Vanguard's timesinks are shit because you get no where without them. In WoW the "grind" is insignificant compared to Vanguard and you have a LOT of story and content to make that grind bearable (what little of a grind there is). Add to that the FAR better story in WoW and you start to understand the difference between quality (WoW) and, well, shoddy design and execution (Vanguard).
I don't expect a WoW clone, none of us do. What we expect is quality content, story and production. Not to mention NOT expecting hiding the lack of such behind endless grinds and group only content that further slows progression. Welcome to Everquest revisited.
Where the hell is the helm graphics?
i dont play mmo which only has 4 faces for each race.....
Your feelings are a lot like mine.
I was on the VG forums ever since the first day, and was really anticipating the game. I guess you could say I was one of the original Vangurls.
But gradually, especially in the last year or so, we started getting more hype and less beef. For a while Brad would come on the VG forums almost daily to post screenshots and tell us what was "going" to be in the game. But none of that ever seemed to quite actually make into the game...
IMO, the main thing that made VG such a mess was that Brad refused to look at reality, and got all his input from the diehard "EQ died with Velious (or whatever expansion people hated)" fanatics. And then the "I need PVP" screamers started, so they changed direction yet again.
And early EQ was FAR from a perfect game - it had numerous flaws, and had tons of deliberate time sinks that were for the sole purpose of slowing players down - and he carried that same flawed "Vision" to Vanguard.
Despite all the attention the bugs are getting, the bugs are not my issues. It is the content. And the content is mediocre at best.
And of course, one question that is still not answered is - Did the world REALLY need yet another Elf/Dwarf fantasy game ?
Good question. I'm not in the beta but I hear that LOTRO has a good shot of bringing back the enjoyment of the genre, along with attention to detail and quality that made WoW such a success.... without the cartoonish feel. So I still hold out hope.
To be honest I would have liked to see a SWG type game without all the failings of SWG