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do not remove xp debt...do not increase xp from quests....
kuzseamer
Member Posts: 50
.....i noticed today that quests have gotten an increase in xp....or so the patch notes say. also people are already complaining about the debt which occures when you die. trust me when i say this.....DO NOT MAKE THIS GAME EASIER".
i understand that the game is buggy...and the crashes are hurting people. bare with them. rather than adjust the xp levels or remove debt until they are fixed....just fix them. i think we need to be patient and understand this is a great game that needs adjustments. if i wanted a run of the mill game i'd go play wow....
if you start dumbing it down.....you are going to get the wrong type of player and lose the right kind....for this type of game anyway.
i read through the startup booklet...and it is obvious to me what Sigil is trying to do with this game. don't panic now....it's true all the impatient players will leave and start posting about how laggy the game is and how hard it is when they lose xp when they die....and all that stuff.....that comes with the territory. every great game has these players. if however the game stays true....these players will become less and less and slowly more loyal and mature players will find there way here, especially considering this game is on the breaking edge for hardware you need.
i think it's a great game......keep it complex!!!!!!
kuzseamer
Comments
I miss DAoC
what xp debt forces you to do is make sure you are prepared. i'm not saying it's perfect the way it is.....but you need something. xp debt is something. no xp debt is nothing.
seriously....if you don't like it (and i don't mean this in a bad way) i don't understand why people wouldn't just keep playing wow...or whatever.... there are a ton of mmo out there that have no xp debt....lots of instant gratification, etc...and they are comming out with more all the time.
xp debt is a negative for some....and rightly so....some don'tlike that. but there are so few mmo's that are complicated and have tons of futur potential like this one.....let us old folks enjoy this.....all i ask for is one game that really makes things tough and since this one is already on taht track.......
kuzseamer
/signed.
I really do hope they fix the game, that way the people who like xp debtt, corpse runs, slow leveling and forced grouping can all play it and the rest of us can enjoy pain free gaming.
I miss DAoC
Yeah I understand, you got a point, but..some other alternate death penalty is needed instead of regrinding lost exp. I don't know, but just something else. I don't feel you should lose experience because you died, but you should definately still be punished. And people don't want to keep playing wow because they might think its fun and all but lacks the depth and features of games like this. It's not about wanting instant gratification, we just want to dive into the fun, have a challenge,but not spend ages regaining lost experience.
But really I think its just easier if VG say they are only catering to the EQ players instead of saying they're making a game to please everyone....
Yeah I understand, you got a point, but..some other alternate death penalty is needed instead of regrinding lost exp. I don't know, but just something else. I don't feel you should lose experience because you died, but you should definately still be punished. And people don't want to keep playing wow because they might think its fun and all but lacks the depth and features of games like this. It's not about wanting instant gratification, we just want to dive into the fun, have a challenge,but not spend ages regaining lost experience.
But really I think its just easier if VG say they are only catering to the EQ players instead of saying they're making a game to please everyone....
why dont you run to your tombstone and get ur xp back? in eq u couldnt get ur xp back no matter what unless u get rez and u still dont get it all back.... in this game its ur option..... so they are not just catering eq.. lalalallalala
Well, you could always simply kill yourself a few dozen times and refrain from running to your corpse.....there you go, experience penalty for you while allowing those who want to gain some experience an opportunity to advance a level once in a blue moon.
Ok, I was kidding (a little)
I will note that I am from the camp that says that the game should be fun first then somewhere further down the list "complex". Fifth level should be fun...48th level should be as well.
The fact of the matter is that the voraciously hardcore players were nearing the cap well before the experience adjustment. If similar games didn't show that the 'meat' of the game started at the highest levels then it wouldn't matter so much to so many. For many the game doesn't even begin until then and the earlier levels are simply an arduous prelude.
I am not saying that the game should simply shove you through content but some of the clamoring about grind was well founded from a casual player's point of view. They are the 'meat' of the industry by the way. You will never satisfy the hardcore anyway as they will chew through your content and complain about it the entire way.
I know where you are coming from but really the community should develop on its own.
Experience grinding does not necessarily equal maturity. I have a feeling that creating a system where only through 'living' online will it grant you the higher tiers is a system designed to make a select few feel uber. Aren't these games supposed to make all of our heroes/villains have some identity? It isn't as if any level, however taxing and time consuming, is actually hard won...unless you count pressing a button or two a few million times worthy of acclaim.
Rant off. sorry :P
My group is just past 30, we've been to at least 40 dungeons/areas of note and done alot of big questlines, we're wearing lots of yellow orange and red items (neato pat ourselves on the back eh), now to the point..... we've had to skip three times as many areas minimum as we've been to just because we've levelled past them. If you make the xp gain any faster thats yet more content you have to miss out on the way.
Now I know there are people who sit in one spot scared to travel unless ordered to do so by a quest, grinding away and bemoaning how tedious they find grinding when they are doing it to themselves. Those people often push for more dings, more gratification, no penalties, just gimme more stuff more often! to try and remedy the fact they like to make this type of game boring for themselves by obsessing over watching a bar move, rather than having fun experiences, in many new places & sometimes getting some new skills.
Calls for level rushing are just uneeded - there's plenty of games that give you a complete new set of gear every few hours (rendering getting any of the previous gear pretty hollow and pointless), have no penalties whatsoever of note, no travel times, no point to ever exploring anywhere because the linear chore-grind will take you around the railroad track of all the theme park content in the end anyway. VG isn't that type of game, so why compete in the simplicity stakes when other offerings are far far more simple, stay complex stay with the approach that other games are totally failing to deliver.
Depth & complexity is what sets VG apart and it's what will retain a loyal longterm clientbase that will probably amount to just as much money over the game life as chasing the oooh new & shiny!! market that will be gone to the next new & shiny every few months.
I agree with you.
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
I agree with the OP that they need to keep Vanguard as is, obviously fix the bugs, but people like it because it's more hard/tedius
and that's fine, enjoy your game
I hope for your sake they (devs) don't continue to listen to the whining and continue to change the game to make it more "friendly" and give it "mass appeal"
it's suppose to be a more old school game. i dont' say "hardcore" or "complex" or "challenging" becuase it really isn't, just designed around a more old school set of principles then other current generation games like WoW
those who know me from these forums know I have no love for Vanguard, not going to lie
I was around in beginning of UO, pre-trammel, played lots of SWG from day 1... i remember fondly the enjoyment I got from those games. These two being other examples of the more old school set of principles I am refering to, UO obviously being the "first" of the genre
But I'm older now, I've put more time and money into MMO's over the past 8-9 years or so then most...
I personally don't want a game like VG that is designed around the more old school set of principles I keep refering to, i've done old school, i was doing old school when it was new and hott
but there are many who do want that experience again, I hope for your sake they keep VG as it is so you all are happy.
i don't want to see what happened to UO and SWG happen to VG
never fun to watch something die that people love
so, that being said
/ agree with OP
however, doesn't mean you VG guys have to be so "elitist" because that gets annoying. respect your elders
The way I see it is, if the death penalty is part of Vanguard then it should stay. If people cannot handle it they have the freedom of choice to just leave and find something more suited to their play style.
No game should ever compromise part of it's fundamental mechanics to cater to a small minority of the people playing it.
Just my 2 cp on that one...
I do not think they are trying to "dumb down" the game for more subscriptions. I think what you are seeing is just a tweaking of the gameplay along with other aspects of the game.
Don't you guys remember that the game is not finished? This is not a conspiracy to bring in the WoW dollars. It is just a progressing development of the game.
For now just relax. Sigil knows what they are doing and it is not due to being under the evil influence of SOE. Let's not let our forum here on mmorpg.com become like the frantic affiliate sites like Silky Venom.
Relax and let them finish building the game. If you like the game trust the people who created it.
Oh yeah definitely saw this coming................
As the game flounders SOE will freak out because they dont have the numbers they wanted so they will get Brad on the phone and say "WOW it up a little so the public will buy it, I mean hey look what it has done for SWG" and so there will be a new dawn for VG in which they remove 3/4 of the classes and add some talent points remove the xp debt penalty and change the targetting system to 3rd person shooter style.
Thanks for playing.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
I love how players seem to universally think that developers are weak minded buffoons who can't make a single decision without the approval of the unwashed masses. These developers weigh every decision they make and determine if its healthy for the game before they make them. In other words, they listen to the player base, but they do not make changes just because people demand them, they make them because they're good ideas and the "developers" think it will be healthy for the game.
Besides, your outcries to keep the game the same could certainly be construed in the same light. You are making demands of the developers without giving any consideration as to the overall health of the game. Only the developers can see and know the whole picture and THEY make their decisions accordingly.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Two of my roommates are playing VG ( one is thinking of continuing playing, the other is definitely canceling with the quote "sorry, not ready for prime time" ) and we all have discussed the "grind" of the game.
And our consensus? A time consuming grind doesn't make a game "hard core" or "elite" - it' just makes the game waste time. And if there is a market for people that aren't smart enough to see that a game is artificially wasting their time in an attempt to get them to subscribe longer, well....that says a lot about the IQ of the gaming world.
Goes for any company bud.
There is not 1 mmorpg company that runs a charity and all are after numbers .
QFT !
Geez the game is a month old, you have low level players already grinding... this only prove one thing for me, this game lack serious content.
QFT !
Geez the game is a month old, you have low level players already grinding... this only prove one thing for me, this game lack serious content.
Almost all games lack content at release, that is a point that I'd never hold against a new game..they're always a work in progress.
Now a multitude of game stopping bugs - *that* I can hold against a game and is a sign that a game was released too early. And VG *definately* suffers from that problem.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Imagine once those little annoying glitches are worked out. The devs will complete this magnificent game. Rested assured, it will be a masterpiece. In fact, there is much about this game that is very alluring.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Forget about the lag and npc missing isue. The most important is the gameplay. With War and Conan even have the options for solo ( which truly indicate them to be casual) and hardcore coming up, Vanguard will really have a great battle up ahead if it still sticks to those old ideas, i know diplomacy is new and i love it but this alone is not enough.
At the end of the day its really what profit that a company makes that counts. This is real life, not fantasy...
RIP Orc Choppa
Vanguard has something of an oldschool style (for want of a better term) that doesn't appeal to everyone, although it is alot easier than true oldschool.
Vanguard has a fair few problems with client polish - although less than some exaggerate it to.
Now if the client could be polished, it obviously would, and it will end up polished eventually but it's going to take some time. People who like that olschool feeling whether new or old will stay with VG and put up with client problems because *drumroll this is the important bit* it is the only place to get something of that oldschool feeling mixed with more modern facilities.
Dropping the oldschool play dynamics to chase the newschool demographic is total financial suicide, because all you are left with is a client that in a far worse state than LOTRO or WoW, without any selling point i.e. complexity & depth. So no oldschoolers will subscribe, and all newschoolers will get their fix somewhere with less issues.
Lets put the argument another way, because Britney Spears & Nsync have sold alot of records, lets nominate that the new music, all music not Britney/Nsync or a close clone of Britney/Nsync can be deleted, because well Britney/Nsync was successful so clearly that other stuff has no market. While we're at it Titanic did great box office so we can delete all the other movies and just make Titanic 4,5,12,57. A world with multiple soft drinks? Clearly too confusing offering customers choice, lets delete everything but Coke and Coffee, those can be our two choices etc etc etc.
It doesn't matter if 6 billion people played Barney the Dinosaur MMO Adventures, if a few hundred thousand want to play NinjaPirate Survival Online, that's still a market it's an untapped dollar till someone fills it, changing the NinjaPirate Survival Online product into Gerald the Arthritic Dinosaurs MMO Adventures isn't a success plan, it's a suicide plan as you remove your selling point.
I'll say it again, the people who'll stick with Vanguard are the people who do it because of the game dynamics and inspite of the client issues. Fix the client, more will come, change the dynamics too far and there's little reason for anyone to stay.
To the OP when the game came the xp was good then they lowered it now you must be one of the those people already up there in the 30's lvl, so it was ok for you but not for us.
Please go back into your hole loot hore.
I'm glad they raised it back most likely they because people where not lvl'ing any more and where canceling.
If you want to play alone fine otherwise shut up!
I'd like to say more but I'd get banned I hate people like you!
Ajax
The future of this game really depends on how much money Sigil is expecting to make. I think everyone could pretty much agree this game is not going to be the wow killer. Lets say VG tops out at 300k subs and falls to s steady 225k - 250k (These numbers are pure fiction since I cant see in to the future) if SIgil is content with that number than VG will pretty much stay as it is. If they get greedy than you have the formula for disaster like SWG. Not saying it would go that bad but you never know.
My opinion is making the game eaiser and more casual player friendly would add greatly to the number of subs. Just have to wait and see how much Brad really believes in his vision. The again the vision of tons of cash is pretty persuading