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You slay a common forest wolf and receive a gold chain vest of frost resistant armor!

Zaxx99Zaxx99 Member Posts: 1,761
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

If you've been playing mmos for any amount of time, then you've almost certainly came across a point in an mmo where you have slayed a normal earth-like creature such as a wolf or a grass snake and received something insanely odd like a magical sword or a heavy piece of plate armor as loot. Obviously, this is something that makes little sense in our real world. If you kill a rabbit, you might find some rabbit fur, rabbit paws, and a little meat. I still long for the day when I go hunting up in the hills in our real world and shoot a buck, walk to its remains to find that it has dropped some golden sword of magical slaying powers that I can take back to town and pawn in any shop for $7,000.

For me, this style of loot is ridiculous and unrealistic and it ruins my immersion factor to quite an extent. Look, I understand that the virtual worlds in which we play are totally unrealistic anyhow just in the sense that we can fight dragons and shoot devastating fireballs and all that. However the thing is.. is that IF we can play in some magical world and be a great sorcerer, most of these games do seem to keep some sense of realism. Water still flows down hill in streams. Falling off of high cliffs can likely still damage our health big time if not kill us. A wolf is surely going to be strong enough in the game to easily slay a chicken. Even though we play in a fantasy realm in these worlds, we sort of expect some common links of realism to the real world that we know and live in here. And when we slay a grass snake in the game, and find that it is carrying items like plate armor and wooden shields that are like 50 times bigger and heavier then the damn snake itself, it means the a lot of the immersion in that fantasy world is damaged. All I ask is that common earth-like creatures don't carry stupid loot that doesn't make an ounce of sense. I want those swords and armor loots to come off of humanoids, dragons, goblins and at least if it is an earth-like creature, be one that has magical powers or a very high IQ where it makes some kind of logical sense that it might want something pretty and shiny for itself. At least that's the way I see it.

Anyone else agree? Disagree?

- Zaxx

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Comments

  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558
    for some reason I couldn't vote on your poll but I see your point.    It doesn't make me want to pull my hair out but it does kill some of the immersion of being in a fantasy world.   Which causes people to become bored with the game faster, IMO.
  • DrShiZaYDrShiZaY Member Posts: 57
    Yeah, this has been bothering me for years.



    We'll only see a change when actual armor seen is armor worn and dropped.



    If you are carrying a torch and I kill you then I want that torch to be lootable.



    If you are a fiery dragon and I kill you, I want to bring all my buddies up to the mountain top and have BBQ dragon for a week. Not to mention the amount of skinning and harvesting it would take to separate scales from flesh and then haul it back down.



    That's another thing, I shouldn't be able to pack 7 shields and 9 breastplates into my backpack...
  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    I disagree, Random things like that are what makes the game fun.
  • DrShiZaYDrShiZaY Member Posts: 57
    Originally posted by Gameloading

    I disagree, Random things like that are what makes the game fun.
    No, it's just devs being lazy and using random drop generators without taking into account immersion.
  • brokenneedlebrokenneedle Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by DrShiZaY

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    I disagree, Random things like that are what makes the game fun.
    No, it's just devs being lazy and using random drop generators without taking into account immersion.

    I always say maybe the wolf ate the hombre that was wearing the silly vest or had the sword.  Otherwise it could get pretty boring if you had to fight only humanoid mobs to get loot you could use.

    imageimage

  • Rikimaru_XRikimaru_X Member UncommonPosts: 11,718
    I would have to agree and disagree at the same time. Now if you ever played a game such as Monster Hunter or Monster Hunter Freedom, it kinda goes by by what you said, and you use the materials to create things you need. I do see your point though, but think about it. Don't you think that random drops makes things a little bit fun and it would help reduce lag and people going after the same thing. It would be an interesting concept to go buy what you can expect from a spawn, but sometimes (depending on the concept), if you expect whats always going to drop, does it make the game fun? In a way it could make hunting/grinding borring, becuase people would look for size for more items than anything else.



    Such as looking at a golem to have a big sword, look at a fox to have a dagger and a rabbit to have some kind of meat or coin. I don't think companies are willing to take such a risk to do somthing like that, but think about it this way. Maybe a wolf swallowed the magical item, maybe that rabbit had a knife stuck in it's back...or somthin. I guess that is where we use our imagination. I would love to see a company try to pull that off for an online game, like how the Elder Scrolls do it. So I do understand where you are coming from though.

    -In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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    RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos

  • JindujunJindujun Member UncommonPosts: 18
    some stuff are reasonable, for example a <insert predator that eats humans here>  could have eaten an adventurer and have something left from him inside, like coins or such. However, loot should be equivalent to the size of a creater as much as possible, a bear wont eat swords or armor and thus should not drop it. Any humanoids should have a chance to drop gear, as would larger creatures that may or may not collect items for keeping (read dragons and similar).



    So in conclusion, droptables should go with common sense as much as possible, it might not be fun to hunt bears and other wild animals and not get magical items or whatnot but hey, that makes their hides more valuable!
  • Rikimaru_XRikimaru_X Member UncommonPosts: 11,718
    Jin, wouldn't that just ruin the economy? If you think about it no body would be going for small creatures, just big ones. There would be massive crouds over people trying to get the good stuff.

    -In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
    |
    RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos

  • DrShiZaYDrShiZaY Member Posts: 57
    Originally posted by Rikimaru_X

    Jin, wouldn't that just ruin the economy? If you think about it no body would be going for small creatures, just big ones. There would be massive crouds over people trying to get the good stuff.
    How is that any different from how it already is?



    People already go after the "good stuff" because these games keep players subscribed by dangling carrots in front of them in a never-ending grind for the 'best of the best' that will be outdated in a week.



    Economy? These games hardly have economies as it is. The only game that truly has an economy is EVE.



    Just stop for a second, why the hell should we be whacking moles and paying top dollar to do it?



    I for one wont subscribe to that bullsh!t any longer.
  • JindujunJindujun Member UncommonPosts: 18
    Originally posted by Rikimaru_X

    Jin, wouldn't that just ruin the economy? If you think about it no body would be going for small creatures, just big ones. There would be massive crouds over people trying to get the good stuff.


    I dont think it would, this is the way it is right now anyways, people already go for the big fish..  A way to sort this out is to have animal parts etc. haev some purpose, like tradeskills etc. etc. Maybe some antlers attached to your helm for novelty? :p
  • earthhawkearthhawk Member Posts: 247
    Originally posted by zaxtor99


    If you've been playing mmos for any amount of time, then you've almost certainly came across a point in an mmo where you have slayed a normal earth-like creature such as a wolf or a grass snake and received something insanely odd like a magical sword or a heavy piece of plate armor as loot. Obviously, this is something that makes little sense in our real world. If you kill a rabbit, you might find some rabbit fur, rabbit paws, and a little meat. I still long for the day when I go hunting up in the hills in our real world and shoot a buck, walk to its remains to find that it has dropped some golden sword of magical slaying powers that I can take back to town and pawn in any shop for $7,000.
    For me, this style of loot is ridiculous and unrealistic and it ruins my immersion factor to quite an extent. Look, I understand that the virtual worlds in which we play are totally unrealistic anyhow just in the sense that we can fight dragons and shoot devastating fireballs and all that. However the thing is.. is that IF we can play in some magical world and be a great sorcerer, most of these games do seem to keep some sense of realism. Water still flows down hill in streams. Falling off of high cliffs can likely still damage our health big time if not kill us. A wolf is surely going to be strong enough in the game to easily slay a chicken. Even though we play in a fantasy realm in these worlds, we sort of expect some common links of realism to the real world that we know and live in here. And when we slay a grass snake in the game, and find that it is carrying items like plate armor and wooden shields that are like 50 times bigger and heavier then the damn snake itself, it means the a lot of the immersion in that fantasy world is damaged. All I ask is that common earth-like creatures don't carry stupid loot that doesn't make an ounce of sense. I want those swords and armor loots to come off of humanoids, dragons, goblins and at least if it is an earth-like creature, be one that has magical powers or a very high IQ where it makes some kind of logical sense that it might want something pretty and shiny for itself. At least that's the way I see it.
    Anyone else agree? Disagree?
     
    - Zaxx


    I could care less. It's a game so I dont expect it to be real...
  • TamalanTamalan Member Posts: 1,117

    The Lord of the Rings current Beta currently uses a fairly realistic system. The few 'unreal' drops were just removed in the last big patch. Creatures of nature drop skins, teeth, claws, eyeballs etc, sentient / two legged, man-type mobs leave behind coin and items including Armour, weapons, crafting recipes and gemstones.

    Its working pretty well so far, in as much as no one has moaned about it in OOC or the forums.

  • brokenneedlebrokenneedle Member Posts: 100
    Originally posted by Jindujun

    Originally posted by Rikimaru_X

    Jin, wouldn't that just ruin the economy? If you think about it no body would be going for small creatures, just big ones. There would be massive crouds over people trying to get the good stuff.


    I dont think it would, this is the way it is right now anyways, people already go for the big fish..  A way to sort this out is to have animal parts etc. haev some purpose, like tradeskills etc. etc. Maybe some antlers attached to your helm for novelty? :p

    That would be cool , the antler hat thingy.  I think theses games should have as much of that novelty stuff as possible.  Some limits though or people like me would be dying their armor pink and brown and have goblin-head shoulder pads.  :)  I can picture it now...

    imageimage

  • SnaKeySnaKey Member Posts: 3,386

    Originally posted by Gameloading
    I disagree, Random things like that are what makes the game fun.
    I have to agree with you. SoR has the system the OP is talking about and tbh, it makes for a very dull game.

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  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    I like it when the tiny spider drops the two handed sword. Makes me laugh.

     

    Otherwise what, I am farming spiders for bitsa of spider leg and spider silk. Bored stupid while my character doesn't advance particulalry.

  • kaibigan34kaibigan34 Member Posts: 1,508
    Have to agree with the OP to some degree. Kinda odd to whack a bear and get a two handed sword. What the hell does the bear need with a two handed sword?



    But also the reverse is non-immersive as well. I see an NPC with cool armor and an awesome weapon. I kill him and get..... ta da...... 4 silver... Huh? Wait what about the armor and sword he is wearing? Ok fine maybe I smashed it up. Then let me kill another looks just like him. And again a few silver. Maybe an apple. In fact I will kill 100 NPCs looks identical and will find everything under the sun except the armor and sword they are using.



    Kai
  • Database82Database82 Member Posts: 179
    It's understandable if a mob drops something equivalant to their size but if a player kills a rabbit the rabbit should not be able to drop a breastplate. It's a bit more understandable if a bear drops a few coins or so but not something that's too large  be disproportionate to the size of the creature.

    Current MMO: Aion
    MMO Watch: Warhammer 40k Online, SWToR, GW2.
    Played: Planetside, SWG, EQ, EQ2, L2, WoW, RFO, KAL, MxO, Voyage, RO,Vanguard,Tabula Rasa, Horizons, CoH/CoV,, Lotro, FFXI
    First MMO: Everquest (Tunare Server, Ronin/Tide Guild)

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857
    Someone hasn't done his homework



    AOC strikes again!



    "Anyways, we aim to have a logical loot system. If you slay an clubwielding pict, he shouldn't drop a halbard. He should drop the club he was wielding or if you are lucky, a slightly better blunt weapon. If you kill a wolf, he shouldn't drop a kite shield"

    Davedread

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by DrShiZaY

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    I disagree, Random things like that are what makes the game fun.
    No, it's just devs being lazy and using random drop generators without taking into account immersion. Not at all, the lack of immersion when it comes to drop like that is what makes the game fun for me. No way i would expect a golden vest from a wolf.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601

    Hello, these games are largely magic based games so of course the reason the enchanged sword of whatever was in the wolf is magic.  That wasn't really a wolf you were fighting, it was an enchanted sword that had been disguised like a wolf.  Reality has nothing to do with it.

    Venge Sunsoar

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    It never bother me.

     

    I figure that what come from the loot may actually be reworked/traded.  So if I find a leather armor from a wolf, I assume it was not wearing it, but it is actually made from the wolf.  If I get some metallic stuff, I assume it is traded for the wolf pelt or something, I actually don't care to play that trade...I am there to fight, to battle...not to tradeskills/trade or whatever.

     

    I never have any troubles with ANY loot coming from mobs, I just don't have to do the tradeskills/trade with components coming from the creatures, which is fine.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar


    Hello, these games are largely magic based games so of course the reason the enchanged sword of whatever was in the wolf is magic.  That wasn't really a wolf you were fighting, it was an enchanted sword that had been disguised like a wolf.  Reality has nothing to do with it.
    Venge Sunsoar
    Even in a "magic based" environment, it is exceptionally unrealistic. Wolves tend to be wolves, and should generally drop only what can be taken from their corpse or what they might have eaten. Chainmail is not particularly palatable for canines. While exceptions do exist in such an environment, they are very few and far in between.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857
    Originally posted by Anofalye


    It never bother me.
     
    I figure that what come from the loot may actually be reworked/traded.  So if I find a leather armor from a wolf, I assume it was not wearing it, but it is actually made from the wolf.  If I get some metallic stuff, I assume it is traded for the wolf pelt or something, I actually don't care to play that trade...I am there to fight, to battle...not to tradeskills/trade or whatever.
     
    I never have any troubles with ANY loot coming from mobs, I just don't have to do the tradeskills/trade with components coming from the creatures, which is fine.
    If that is the case, then why do you ever get anything useless to you? If the justification comes through your character automatically tradeskilling/trading fur, bones, etc., then why would your human warrior trade to get that cloth miniskirt only equipable by elf clerics?

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • wmbyrnewmbyrne Member Posts: 35
    This is a problem for me, only because I have to make the assumption that there is a lair around, and the item was from that lair. I would much rather have some system of harvesting what you can from the monster’s body, then do a search for a lair, and fight off a few more mobs in the lair. Then loot the lair and find the body of some poor soul who was not as lucky as I was. This is because I have a Pen and Paper RPG background, something that the new generation is lacking, after all the Sega generation is taking over, with equally Sega type expectations.
  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433
    Originally posted by Aelfinn

    Originally posted by Anofalye


    It never bother me.
     
    I figure that what come from the loot may actually be reworked/traded.  So if I find a leather armor from a wolf, I assume it was not wearing it, but it is actually made from the wolf.  If I get some metallic stuff, I assume it is traded for the wolf pelt or something, I actually don't care to play that trade...I am there to fight, to battle...not to tradeskills/trade or whatever.
     
    I never have any troubles with ANY loot coming from mobs, I just don't have to do the tradeskills/trade with components coming from the creatures, which is fine.
    If that is the case, then why do you ever get anything useless to you? If the justification comes through your character automatically tradeskilling/trading fur, bones, etc., then why would your human warrior trade to get that cloth miniskirt only equipable by elf clerics?



    Getting trade-able items for other characters always annoys me.

     

    Yet I cope with it.  But, I would be perfectly happy to never get any loot that I can't use, nor any components for tradeskills/other spells or whatever.  If these annoyances are in the game, I will hoard them in the hope to get an item I need or just to help another player by avoiding them the troubles, but honestly, if you remove all the non-fighting part althogether, I am happier.

     

    All loot NO DROP and only loot that I can use...I am in heaven, can't ask for anything better.  A wolf drop a full plate?  Don't bother me at all.  A wolf drop a full plate I can't use ever, that annoy me.

     

    Yet, the annoyance factor is slight, I can cope with it and would not consider a game without it or with it much differently.  It is not an annoyance that is hard to deal with, it is slight amount of times spread a little here and there.  I always get 8 backpack (or more) ASAP just to reduce the handling to a minimum.  In fact, I rather have the loot auto-awarded and never have to actually click on a corpse.  Clicking on corpses is not fun, and it is a lowly action, like going to the bathroom.  I don't need to see my hero doing that anymore than I need to see my hero pee.  Yet, in both case, I could deal with these annoyances, as long as they are not becoming aggravating (pee would be aggravating if you have to pee and stop doing whatever you are doing).  Just like receiving a email from the job is a slight annoyance, I do it when I want, at my discretion...while receiving a phone call from the job, now that is seriously aggravating...as it command that you stop doing what you are doing, NOW...again, I rather be free from my job contacting me home at all if possible.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

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