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Changed it to STOP BLAMING SOE LOL!
Enigma
Member UncommonPosts: 11,384
SOE did not developed Vanguard. SOE does not provide GM service. SOE does not provide ingame CSR service. SOE does not answer petitions. SOE does not patch this game . SOE does not fix the bugs through the patch system. SOE does not keep one updated though live updates, etc.
In what capacity is SOE involved in Vanguard?
1. They provided a financial base in which Sigil could develope their code onto DVDs and are the catalyst of production, shipping, and product handling to the merchants.
2. They host Vanguard's official forums (which is Website feedback and technical help) and consequently, those forums are moderated by SOE Moderators.
3. They provided a catalyst in which Sigil could launch their game (i.e., the Sony Launchpad)
So please for the love of God and all that is holy stop this SOE shit.
I hate Vanguard just as much as the next person. Believe me, I threw 100 bucks down the drain (2 accounts; one for me and one for my wife) and we both have cancelled accounts because it is the absolute worse western MMO I have ever had the disadvantage of paying for.
But, be fair to SOE. They have nothing to do with the development and financial properiety of this game. Jebus, SOE has a bad rap I know, but pointing fingers at em like a damn Salem Witchhunt trial will do nothing for you except hurt the credibility of those who have bad issues about the game.
If you hate what SOE is doing MMOs, let me refer you to EQ, EQ2, SWG, and PlanetSide located on the left hand side of this webpage. If you hate Vanguard then use SIGIL in your threads of "I hate Vanguard because <insert Sigil's name here> are a bunch of greedy retards."
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Comments
Gotta agree with the OP..............
You can certainly blame SOE for a lot of bad game decisions but Im afraid VG is all Sigil. If you got a beef with VG then you better take it up with Brad and his team because they fuxxored this title up all on their own.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Yeah I agree
SOE have enough bad games I don't think they need any more
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Have to agree with OP.
This is tiresome now. Most threads/posts on vanguard are hijacked to vent some anger at SOE. Have an opinion on the game by all means, but the SOE obsession is tedious and dragged on way too long.
who me ?
Case in point, the recent double weekend offering. How to view it? As Sigil's 'gift of appreciation'? Or maybe glance at the bottom of the newsletter and read that 'this e-mail contains promotional, marketing and advertisement material'? Isn't SOE's role to handle all 'marketing'; so were they instrumental in the decision to offer that weekend?
Not really questions I'm asking that I want answered, but just an example that SOE's role is going to often effect design decisions here and there. It needn't be seen as something negative like John Smedley in a black hooded robe whispering ill-omened things for Vanguard in Brad's ear, but just that the two companies naturally have to work together in order to sell the game, and since it's SOE's job to sell the game primarily, undoubtedly they're going to have suggestions and say-so over the product when it's warranted.
It can be that way and Sigil still be the bottom-line. But bottom-line doesn't mean Sigil is origin to 100% of decisions put forth towards Vanguard.
The problem on these boards and in the community period though is that some people wait for something bad to happen, and then blame SOE as a reflex reaction. SOE has an involvement in the game, yeah, but I agree with the OP that blame shouldn't always be placed upon SOE. Most of the time it's Sigil since they're the only ones hands-on with the design on the product; granted SOE influences it when warranted as aforementioned.
Tech support? Sure there is... Sigil is in charge of that
Player support? Yeah..there is. They still have a rather large following. They love punishment more than me lol
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
SOE was involved in the financing and made the decision to release Vanguard in an incomplete form. Brad had to release Vanguard because of lack of funding. It's perfectly reasonable to hold SOE equally accountable for the poor condition of Vanguard. SOE knew the game wasn't polished enough to charge for, yet they did so anyways, marketing the game in a positive light. That is fraud.
I wasn't looking for answers, I was just making an example of one of many instances that have and will continue to come up where SOE's involvement can be brought legitimately into question based on real facts.
You make the accusation that the move was to keep players for another month (so did I), but that actually falls under SOE's responsibility (marketing, as advertised in the newsletter). So the two companies are going to mish-mash at times and certain design decisions will result.
Another past example is the switch from 8 characters per server to 8 characters per account prior to launch. Do you believe that was done for an expressed technical reason, or maybe it had moreso to do with SOE's ability to market other avenues to get more character slots?
Anyway, like I said, of course Brad is the bottom line, but that doesn't mean SOE is without any role in decision making. If the two companies are going to be successful together, its only natural that they have a give and take relationship.
Brad was hired by Verant, it was never his. Consequently EQ was always Sony's product, it was never owned by Brad even though he was elevated to an executive eventually. And I believe he left SOE, he wasn't fired.
And again, just because Brad is the bottom-line in terms of power over Vanguard, it doesn't mean SOE is without influence. Why would he be antagonistic towards a partnering company? To sate conspiracy theorists here? I doubt it.
I'm not equating SOE's involvement in design decisions with injecting venom; common sense about it all can be projected in a neutral light you know. You definitely can't fight paranoia and covered eyes with more paranoia and covered eyes. Implying SOE has no involvement is no more substantiated than implying they're secret overlords.
All you're saying is that Sigil is 100% final say, which is what I'm saying. All I'm saying is, if SOE has an idea of how to get subscription numbers up and more boxes to sell, they're going to suggest it to Sigil and Sigil may listen. This has definitely happened before, this will definitely continue to happen.
It's business, it's not the same as a mom accepting any little thing their kid colors and paste it up on the fridge door without commentary.
Nooo SOE are the devil though right man
BTW En1gma, what level did you get to? Just wondering. Oh what race and class too?
You are making the mistake of assuming that because you personally feel cheated by Vanguard that all the marketing was a lie. In reality, however, many people disagree with you. I talk to many people each day in Vanguard that are enjoying the game and feel that it is getting better and better with every patch.
~Synexis
Blame or cheer Sigil for everything. (I for one now consider them nothing but amateurs, which is nice and sweet, but not on this market I hope)
I say let VG burn, it shall be a clear message of "do not fuck us over again!"
W-R-O-N-G Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh (buzzer goes off)
Vanguard being release way too early was purely Brad's idea as well as the rest of the Sigil's development crew. They plcaed it out on the market because they had completely ran out of money and they never had any other viable options (right from Brad's mouth).
SOE in no way whatsoever had any bearing on the release of the game. They have no authority on the release of a game that is owned by Sigil. That was Sigil 100%. Don't put the blame on SOE with that one either.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Lvl 26 Paladin/110 Diplomacy/0 crafter Thestrian
Lvl 15 Monk/100 Diplomacy/28 Carpenter Kojan Human
Lvl 13 Warrior/0 Diplomacy/0 crafter Ogre Warrior
Lvl 10 Necromancer/0 Diplomacy/ 0 crafter Kojan Human
Lvl 21 Cleric/0 Diplomacy/0 crafter Qalia (sp?) human
The monk became my main because I gave up on adventuring about a couple weeks ago and just concentrated on that. I leveled up cleric fast since it's solable but then it just got old like the other adventuring classes for me.
To be honest, I have no idea why I kept crafting going. It's literally the worse crafting setup in terms of mindless, tedious grinding than any other MMO ever made. Not saying it was hard nor am I saying it was too easy....it was just too damn tedious with all the clicking and no brain power to craft anything. If you could guestimate your action points then you overcame the challenging part of crafting.
I gave it an honest shot. Hell, my wife even tried it. We tried it for over amonth (even after I played Beta and hated it passionately I decided to give it another shot).
If anyone can say they gave it an honest shot at this game it was me. I threw down 2.5 grand to get this game at a nice playable look for a new computer. I wanted a new computer anyways, but Vanguard was the deciding factor when I bought my new rig.
Core2Duo 3. ghz, 1 terrabyte 7200 16M HD, 4 gigs of ram (purely because of vanguard), NVidia 8800gtx v card, blah blah blah.
So I can say I gave it another shot lol.
I couldnt do it anymore. The grind is horrible and very lacking in story involvement. It made lineage 2 grind feel like a MMO paradise. If you played Lineage 2 you know what Im talking about. The animations were horrible, the spell effects were horrible, the sound effects were horrible (women grunted in the Inns and shops like they were having severe constipation and the men's voices in Thestria was all from one guy who has the worse voice acting I have ever heard. He reminds me of the guy who runs the comicbook store in the Simpsons).
Sure, there was some good things in the game and I can plainly see where Sigil was trying to get at but I think they lost their way halfway through development. Its just too much. It's not a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. It's a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Job.
I love hardcore MMOs....I love them more than anything. Vanguard isnt a hardcore game. Its an Eastern Hack N Slash grind fest with a Western MMO skin over it.
Also, when I want to play a MMO it is just that: play. Vanguard isn't about playing or having fun to me. It's a second job where you have to set aside your real life just to get anywhere.
Im happily married with 2 awesome kids. Vanguard is worse than UPS and the Navy when it comes to family values lol!! It's just way too involving to be a recreational game.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
SOE hosts the servers also, they didn't only provide the DVDs/Stuff
http://mentaltruancy.guildportal.com - Friendly Vanguard:Saga of Heroes Qalia based Guild.
But I read somewhere that SOE DEVELOPERS were sent into Sigil to help them finish the game. Is that wrong info?
If people actually think SOE agreed to this deal without having in say in how the game is managed... I have a couple bridges to sell you.
That being said, virtually all of the poor decision making that plagues this game can be laid at Sigil's feet.
The op is good and well but no one really knows what type of marraige Sigil got going on with SOE. They can say whatever they want but no matter what, no one really knows for sure. Not unless you're with them. I know many people believe certain things but come now, you're talking about SOE and if you've dealt with them in the past you know exactly what they're capable of.
Personally, I see it like it is. The bottom line is SOE is the one getting paid here and that's all that really matters. You make a station access account in order to play VG and who controls that? SOE.
You make your payments to SOE. You give your credit card numbers to SOE. Therefore, since they're getting all the money from us players then they're most likely running this puppy. The almighty dollar is what this is all about and who're you paying for the right to play VG?
In the end this is all that matters, who you're paying. The folks at Sigil may of made the game but SOE is the big dog in this yard. They're the ones making the decisions since it's their bucks. Unfortunately anyway.
You're kidding yourself if you think SOE has nothing to do with this game. Yeah, right. They're going to finance a game and not have any say in it. Like the post below me says, SOE's stickers are everywhere in VG. It's a wonder they're not inside the game itself.
It's not very hard to understand why some people may think that SOE made the game.
But I read somewhere that SOE DEVELOPERS were sent into Sigil to help them finish the game. Is that wrong info? I also remember reading that as well.
Again, this is Brad's ineptitude and mismanagement. They ran out of money, and if it hadn't been for SOE lending assistance, the game might not have even hit shelves.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
But I read somewhere that SOE DEVELOPERS were sent into Sigil to help them finish the game. Is that wrong info? I also remember reading that as well.
Again, this is Brad's ineptitude and mismanagement. They ran out of money, and if it hadn't been for SOE lending assistance, the game might not have even hit shelves. Yeah, shortly before Beta 4 or during it, Brad affirmed that he requested designers and artists from SOE to help 'finish' the game.
Anyway, fact of the matter is, SOE's involvement in the past hasn't ever been as cleanly cut as the OP suggests people form their opinions upon, and there's no way ever we'll know to what extent SOE was involved in any decisions unless it's announced to us.
Seriously this guy is lying out of his arse. BTW vanguard rocks, yeah the new patch fubared my rogue a bit and nerfed his poor little hiny, but they increased the speed of stealth so its all good. BTW running around stealthed is awsome no one can see you and this is the first game that treats stealth and teh spell invisibility as two seperate things, so i would say the small things like this and other things make this a third gen game. Kudo's to sigil, for adding another layer to the game.