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"Viral advertsing" vs. valid posts
SWGLover
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 539
I have a question.
I remember when Sony got caught red handed having their employee's right reviews for their products - a clear breach of ethical behavior.
Now, at least Brad is up-front about their plan to use "viral marketing" on the internet for advertising and damage control regarding Vanguard.
So my question is......
How is anyone ever going to be sure that a positive fanboi type forum post anywhere is not an Vanguard employee typing away as part of their job?
It makes every positive statement ( especially those that fly in the face of what most other players are experiencing ) suspect.
Just a thought from a consumer.
Comments
At many times during the day, I often wonder how people can be so obtuse, and yet remain able to make it from their bed to the door every morning without somehow offing themselves?
ZOMG THERE MARKETING WILL PUT TEH VIRUSES ON MY COMPUTER MACHINES!!!
Viral marketing does not exclusively mean stealth marketing. In the case of the quote from McQuaid, it simply means word of mouth advertising. Because saying they were using a stealth marketing campaign approach would make it... well, less than stealthy.
As for the stealth marketing? It happens, though nowhere near the level that some tinfoil hat wearing idiots would have you believe. Fact is, unless they tell you, or are just a complete idiot about it by putting links in their posts, or making the same post on numerous sites, you don't really know if someone is on the payroll, whether they're writing for or against a game, or any other product.
I played it for my free 30 days and hated it but thats just me the "troll" (as the virals and vanbois would call me).
Cal
Ummm.....where in my post did i mention a virus being placed on my machine?
I'm confused where you would be able to interpet that from what I wrote.
Is English your native language?
Nobody can ever be sure in the internet if its stealth marketing or just a happy "consumer".
The same thing stands also for hate-bois, i.e. banned gold farmers who try to nuke the game on forums.
First answer to the OP of that thread.
He would be included in the angry vanboy section (the 55%) of my answer to your OP I just put up. Disregard him as such and all will be well
Cal
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
First answer to the OP of that thread.
He would be included in the angry vanboy section (the 55%) of my answer to your OP I just put up. Disregard him as such and all will be well
Cal
Naw, him and Coldmeat are refering to my post in which I used question marks to indicate that I was unfamiliar with the term "viral marketing". A few posts down I thanked someone for explaining it to me. Look up the term "viral" in Websters and it says virus, that is why I asked the question, I didn't understand what Brad was driving at.
Unlike some people in these forums I do not profess to know everything, and when I am unfamiliar with a term I ask. Some see this as a sign of weakness and launch an attack. To those I say each of us has our own areas of expertise, just because I don't know your area doesn't make me incapable of getting out of bed in the morning without offing myself.
For those of you that wish to engage in my area of expertise, and show how superior you are, tell me the purpose of using a Cayman Islands financial institution to structure equity investments as debt. Is it legal? Can you answer this without offing yourself getting outta bed?
Keep yer knickers on chief, I just thought your response in the other thread was funny.
And, no, I've no clue about bank accounts in the Caymans. I barely use banks here stateside. But, then, I'm not making posts involving Cayman Island bank accounts, and a vast secret conspiracy of epic proportions where everyone saying anything positive about them is some sort of employee of the top secret cabal that controls the World Bank.
It's not even just the OP, this stupid fantasy has been making the rounds for a few weeks now. And McQuaid's comment just adds fuel to the fire by getting people that don't know what viral marketing is riled up. I'm just flabbergasted that there are people that are so wholly invested into hating a VIDEO GAME, that they're to the point that they're crafting elaborate tinfoil hat conspiracies to explain the fact that there are people that like the game.
And for whoever claimed I was an angry vanboi? Thanks for the free chuckle. But hey, one out of two ain't bad. Might wanna check my Xfire sig to see where I've been spending my time lately, though.
If they flipped the switch on the servers, turned out the lights, and went home, it wouldn't bother me, other than I wouldn't have this forum, despite it's many annoyances, to romp about in.
First answer to the OP of that thread.
He would be included in the angry vanboy section (the 55%) of my answer to your OP I just put up. Disregard him as such and all will be well
.
Cal
Naw, him and Coldmeat are refering to my post in which I used question marks to indicate that I was unfamiliar with the term "viral marketing". A few posts down I thanked someone for explaining it to me. Look up the term "viral" in Websters and it says virus, that is why I asked the question, I didn't understand what Brad was driving at.
Unlike some people in these forums I do not profess to know everything, and when I am unfamiliar with a term I ask. Some see this as a sign of weakness and launch an attack. To those I say each of us has our own areas of expertise, just because I don't know your area doesn't make me incapable of getting out of bed in the morning without offing myself.
For those of you that wish to engage in my area of expertise, and show how superior you are, tell me the purpose of using a Cayman Islands financial institution to structure equity investments as debt. Is it legal? Can you answer this without offing yourself getting outta bed?
...
It's not even just the OP, this stupid fantasy has been making the rounds for a few weeks now.
I'm going to follow-up on behalf of the OP, and out of my own curiosity, and repeat their question to you...
Where are they perpetuating any such "fantasy" that you speak of? You're including the OP in the line "It's not even just the OP"... as though they're part of this group of people promoting this idea that companies are putting viruses on people's PCs...
And again, nowhere in the OP does he say anything at all like that.
So again... why are you so vehemently countering points the OP wasn't making in the first place?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Agree. If it weren't for these forums I would be lamenting the sorry state MMORPGs are in. We are in desperate need of an influx of cash for quality game designs.
Then we can argue which ones......
First answer to the OP of that thread.
He would be included in the angry vanboy section (the 55%) of my answer to your OP I just put up. Disregard him as such and all will be well
Cal
Naw, him and Coldmeat are refering to my post in which I used question marks to indicate that I was unfamiliar with the term "viral marketing". A few posts down I thanked someone for explaining it to me. Look up the term "viral" in Websters and it says virus, that is why I asked the question, I didn't understand what Brad was driving at.
Unlike some people in these forums I do not profess to know everything, and when I am unfamiliar with a term I ask. Some see this as a sign of weakness and launch an attack. To those I say each of us has our own areas of expertise, just because I don't know your area doesn't make me incapable of getting out of bed in the morning without offing myself.
For those of you that wish to engage in my area of expertise, and show how superior you are, tell me the purpose of using a Cayman Islands financial institution to structure equity investments as debt. Is it legal? Can you answer this without offing yourself getting outta bed?
...
It's not even just the OP, this stupid fantasy has been making the rounds for a few weeks now.
I'm going to follow-up on behalf of the OP, and out of my own curiosity, and repeat their question to you...
Where are they perpetuating any such "fantasy" that you speak of? You're including the OP in the line "It's not even just the OP"... as though they're part of this group of people promoting this idea that companies are putting viruses on people's PCs...
And again, nowhere in the OP does he say anything at all like that.
So again... why are you so vehemently countering points the OP wasn't making in the first place?
FFS...
The fantasy is the OP, and others, contention that there is some conspiracy on the part of Sigil and/or SOE, paying people to post positive things about Vangaurd. I'm sure there are black vans outside their houses as we speak. Soon they'll be taken to re-education camps, where SOE will use mind control technology purchased from the KGB to turn them into top secret moles on this very forum, posting about how great Vanguard is.
The virus thing was a fucking joke, made in reference to what Olddaddy said in a different thread.
I don't know how to make it any clearer.
Honestly, I think Viral marketing has very little impact in cases like VG. I can totally see that if a consumer is sitting on the fence whether he/she will buy a game a positive spin by the marketing department could tip the scale in the game's favour. However, in cases like VG or SWG just to name two massive failures it simply doesn't matter. No marketing spin will change enough opinions to have a significant impact.
The fact that companies even considers those measures clearly shows that their prioroties are completely screwed up. I used to work at a resort that got really poor customer reviews as we were hopelessly overpriced. The "solution" by our marketing director was for us to create user accounts and plant false positive reviews. Problem in this case much like VG/SWG is that they are treating the symptoms and not the cause. If that type of effort was spent on the product instead there wouldn't be a need for those measures. Unfortunately that seems to be a fact that is lost on most people.
see, the thing is, players can spot a developer posing to be a player a mile away.
I have no idea how but right after SWG's NGE a bunch of devs pretended to be players. Well, the bullshit was so thick all we did was spray em down with a water hose and *BAM** whaddya know... Julio Torres and his henchman was posing as this "OMG I THINK THIS NGE IS LIKE THE MOST FREAKENEST MOST AWESOMEST EVAR!!1!!11!11!!"
Viral marketing will do more harm than good. It's coming sense. When you have to pose as a player and say good things about it, that tells your playerbase the desperation is sitting in.
Also, it's a form of deception. Deception is never a good mix with developers and forums. Ask Tiggs this. She told them to stop the viral marketing in SWG and voiced her opinion about the NGE. Next day she was fired.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
Ads in magazines and on websites are fine, but only effective to a degree. Message boards are often the home of people who like to rant and get attention, so I usually take them with a grain of salt. Personal friends who have similar tastes to mine are probably my most reliable resource.
This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. It would also likely be discovered and do more harm than good. Lastly, we only have so many employees, and the effect would therefore be negligible.
But having 130,000+ people, or at least the subset of the players who really like the game, tell their friends about the game, especially friends who may not have heard about Vanguard or who did but are skeptical, is very powerful. Early on in EQ 1 (in late beta and early release) we had very little formal marketing (magazine ads, etc.). Most of our initial sales and therefore success came from viral marketing, not from ads or posts on message boards.
--
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
My apologies then. People were assuming when you guys mentioned "viral marketing" there were those who thought that meant taking an employee of that said game and pretended to be a player who has no connection to that game.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Brad I just don't think viral marketing is going to work for you. Not with the kind of reviews the diehard fanatical fanbase is giving the game. Some deny that any problems exist even though you yourself said there were problems that you and your team are working to fix. Those types of reviews actually hurt you more than help you. Those types of people using viral marketing or word of mouth do nothing that will help you gain subscribers.
For instance one reviewer in these forums rated Vanguard with no rating being lower than an 8. He claimed that's the way he saw it through his gaming experience. Somebody reading that review might go out and buy the game not aware of the "teething" phase that the game is going through right now and thinking Vanguard is the greatest MMO ever. Finding out that there are problems and that the review was not very truthful or realistic might be enough to piss that person off to the point where they quit the game and never come back to it or even consider another Sigil product. A review like that hurts you. People need to be honest.
Right now you can't even go to the tech support forums with a problem without being attacked or called a liar. Word of mouth can help you but it can also kill you. Even a person who doesn't like the game might be able to give you feedback. With the way things are setup with the affiliate websites it's almost impossible to give any type of feedback unless it's positive. Until you can somehow rein in the rabid fanatical fanbase doing this, I just don't see how viral marketing or word of mouth is ever going to work for you.
First answer to the OP of that thread.
He would be included in the angry vanboy section (the 55%) of my answer to your OP I just put up. Disregard him as such and all will be well
Cal
Naw, him and Coldmeat are refering to my post in which I used question marks to indicate that I was unfamiliar with the term "viral marketing". A few posts down I thanked someone for explaining it to me. Look up the term "viral" in Websters and it says virus, that is why I asked the question, I didn't understand what Brad was driving at.
Unlike some people in these forums I do not profess to know everything, and when I am unfamiliar with a term I ask. Some see this as a sign of weakness and launch an attack. To those I say each of us has our own areas of expertise, just because I don't know your area doesn't make me incapable of getting out of bed in the morning without offing myself.
For those of you that wish to engage in my area of expertise, and show how superior you are, tell me the purpose of using a Cayman Islands financial institution to structure equity investments as debt. Is it legal? Can you answer this without offing yourself getting outta bed?
...
It's not even just the OP, this stupid fantasy has been making the rounds for a few weeks now.
I'm going to follow-up on behalf of the OP, and out of my own curiosity, and repeat their question to you...
Where are they perpetuating any such "fantasy" that you speak of? You're including the OP in the line "It's not even just the OP"... as though they're part of this group of people promoting this idea that companies are putting viruses on people's PCs...
And again, nowhere in the OP does he say anything at all like that.
So again... why are you so vehemently countering points the OP wasn't making in the first place?
FFS...
The fantasy is the OP, and others, contention that there is some conspiracy on the part of Sigil and/or SOE, paying people to post positive things about Vangaurd. I'm sure there are black vans outside their houses as we speak. Soon they'll be taken to re-education camps, where SOE will use mind control technology purchased from the KGB to turn them into top secret moles on this very forum, posting about how great Vanguard is.
The virus thing was a fucking joke, made in reference to what Olddaddy said in a different thread.
I don't know how to make it any clearer.
I'm begining to think that you can't accually make a point on this forum.
Thought your posts were pretty damn funny myself; it's a shame some people can't get it.
Not everyone that posts an objection to critisism is a rabid vanboi. Sometimes people on these boards post such complete crap that people like me enjoy taking the time to argue with them. Most of the time I do it just to be annoying, and I hope that I do a good job of it. I ususally measure it by the amount and length some go through to twist what I write to better suit them. I think that sometimes the poeple that dislike this game and can't let it go have gotten to the point that they are flinging crap for the sake of flinging crap; like a bunch of monkeys forced to live in a glass room, and slowly going out of thier minds from boredom.
I love the Sigil reps on these boards, I admire thier ability to keep a sence of humor when they post here; it must be hard.
Fariic:
"Most of the time I do it just to be annoying, and I hope that I do a good job of it. "
The very defination of trolling.
A fine example of a VG fan, I'm sure you make Brad proud.
And some people wonder why it's so hard to have an debate with any meaning on these forums......
Brad:
"This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. "
If ya'll have in fact made a commitment to not use that particular unethical marketing technique, my apologies for my previous comment.