anyone knows if there's a "big" forum of warhammer out on the interweb? (not mmorpg.com ofcourse :P just one forum dedicated to warhammer)
"It's no good coming to our game if you are trying to grow weed, It's no good coming to our game if you want to make pants. It's only worth coming to our game if you want to burn things to the ground." -Paul Barnett, WAR is coming
Amazing how we are 'complaining'. No one is crying they won't play the game. No one is whining about how mythic is trying to not hear the pleas of their customers. We are just voicing our opinions about why we would prefer or would not prefer official forums.
But i apologise for not finding what you find important to be my most significant concern.
But wait... I don't see you writing anything pro or con about the topic, just about the people who have... So I take my apology back.
Because the only 'COMPLAINER' here was YOU.
We have put down and explained our reasoning for wanting a Mythic based forum. Thats not complaining thats voicing ones opinions and feelings in a constructive manner. Is it not a shame that this thread is the most popular and it lacked any flaming or trolling till YOU came around.
To paraphrase another poster:
"We are forum goers here, we're biased"
( And yes I am on my high horse again: "Giddy up" )
Explain how being amazed that this stupid topic has seen more debate than any other issue raised on this forum is flaming. Don't worry, I'll wait.
Oh, and I did already offer my opinion on this issue... two weeks ago. You might want to try reading the 1st page, 10th post down. Uh oh. Your ass must be sore after being thrown from your high horse.
As far as "No one is crying they won't play the game," you might want to double-check that third option in the poll, skippy.
So, tell me, is it hard being simultaneously that arrogant and oblivious, or does it come naturally?
Have a great day.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
Amazing how we are 'complaining'. No one is crying they won't play the game. No one is whining about how mythic is trying to not hear the pleas of their customers. We are just voicing our opinions about why we would prefer or would not prefer official forums.
But i apologise for not finding what you find important to be my most significant concern.
But wait... I don't see you writing anything pro or con about the topic, just about the people who have... So I take my apology back.
Because the only 'COMPLAINER' here was YOU.
We have put down and explained our reasoning for wanting a Mythic based forum. Thats not complaining thats voicing ones opinions and feelings in a constructive manner. Is it not a shame that this thread is the most popular and it lacked any flaming or trolling till YOU came around.
To paraphrase another poster:
"We are forum goers here, we're biased"
( And yes I am on my high horse again: "Giddy up" )
Explain how being amazed that this stupid topic has seen more debate than any other issue raised on this forum is flaming. Don't worry, I'll wait.
Oh, and I did already offer my opinion on this issue... two weeks ago. You might want to try reading the 1st page, 10th post down. Uh oh. Your ass must be sore after being thrown from your high horse.
As far as "No one is crying they won't play the game," you might want to double-check that third option in the poll, skippy.
So, tell me, is it hard being simultaneously that arrogant and oblivious, or does it come naturally?
Have a great day. Arrogance is easy. And I'm not oblivious, I was looking at your current post, that had no constructive opinions whatsoever. And my point was not that you were complaining about the topic. You complained about the PEOPLE posting in the topic. So who is oblivious now?
If you can't even see the difference between saying the thread has no real value and calling those who post in the thread whiners and complainers then your the one who was COMPLAINING about the thread? Amazing.... and I am the arrogant and oblivious one.
So it seems i have yet to be thrown off my horse. And you need to get out of dodge Skippy. I can post where I want when I want. Does not make me a whiner. Complaining about the paper cut I just got makes me a whiner (OWW). So Skippy, what was that? Is it hard to be an arrogant person who belittles others but does not like it when those others say something about it?
And you have a nice day and try to get your concepts straight.
That's awesome: I pointed out how your post was nothing but a knee-jerk reaction to being criticized by going point-by-point how your e-tirade was factually vapid from the get-go, and how do you respond? Why, by ignoring and contradicting every claim you made originally and then finishing off with some non-sensical attempt to ape what I wrote, of course! Clever.
I see this turning into a flame-fest real fast, so here's two ways for this to go down:
1.) You grow up and stop acting like an attention whore over some little blurb that wasn't directed at you in the slightest (or anyone in particular, unless you automatically associate yourself with "people who will find something to endlessly bitch about" any time such individuals are mentioned), or
2.) You'll try to sound clever once again in that eye-raping teal font while violating the twin sisters Grammar and Syntax, and what was an already pointless thread that is page after page of people repeating the exact same arguments will devolve into a giant flame war reminiscent of a rodeo clown getting stomped to death by a bull (you = clown; me = bull) until we both go out in a ban-hammer blaze of glory at the hands of the moderators.
Your move, skippy.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
But I will let this go, I don't want the post to get locked. That would please you to much.
And as I have stated before, I am disabled with a brain tumor pushing on my optic nerve, causing my vision to fail. It is easier for me to type and edit in another color than it is for me do do so in white (the white bleeds together and I must strain to see it).
And while I won't state my reasons for it on a public forum, an attack is an attack. You determined to attack those who posted on this forum. Just because it was not aimed at anyone in particular makes it no less of an attack. I deal with that BS every day in one for or another. Attacking a group makes you no less ignorant than if you attacked an individual.
You attacked the forum and those who posted in it in general and I will always defend myself, no matter how inappropriate that may be.
But this will be my last post in public about the matter. I do not want the thread locked. I believe it's a good discussion.
If you want to continue this discussion you can always PM me, but I doubt you will do that, because its not as much fun as attacking a group of people in general or trying to attack others for defending themselves.
Why would I PM you? I had nothing to say to you in the first place. You came in all high and mighty, super-sensitive and on the defensive and wanted to start a fight over something that had nothing to do with you (unless, again, you group yourself in with people who complain for the sake of complaining and took offense to such noble internet denziens being ridiculed).
No official forums = don't care. I'd much rather they spend their time and resources working to keep the game running smoothly rather than hosting, running, and dealing with the never-ending drama that are internet message boards.
Is there anything that hasn't been said yet at this point? Honestly.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
And a tally from our judges? Yes, it seems that Tyfreaky is currently leading in this dueling match. Lithdov is parrying with some valiant words, but unfortunately cannot sell it on the thrusts. Not uncommon when the responces are laced with a bit of hypocracy. If only he could understand that, if he didn't care what Tyfreaky has to say, he wouldn't be trying so hard to reply to everything Ty says. But the duel is just reaching a break, and both combatants should be refreshed and ready for a second round after a good night's sleep.
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
I had no interest in this becoming a fight. I still have no interest in it becoming one. This topic is tedious to begin with, and was only made all the more so by the "z0mg stfu n00b troll flamer!1!!" response I got for DARING (gasp!) to express my disbelief that people were that hung up on the issue of an internet message board.
This whole thread has moved into the theater of the surreal.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
Anyone who isn't going to play a game just because a company decides to devote resources to actually working on their game instead of running forums for idiots to whine about everything is retarded, and I'm glad they won't be a part of any gaming community that I belong to.
There are plenty of successful MMOs who's dev teams take player feedback/suggestions very seriously without running their own forums. This is a non-issue.
Sadly you know almost nothing about how easy it is to maintain a forum. Something as large as MMORPG.com, sure, it must take an army of people to run. But a forum for one game? At most it would take 1 person from the company to act as a liason and the rest is community managed. How many mods here at this site or any other large forum site are employees versus how many are dedicated forum posters that wanted to take a more active approach to their forum time? The fact that most forums are maintained and ran by the community shows me that it takes very little outside of an initial planning to run one. Telling someone that they are not worthy of being in your prescence because they would like to play a game made by a company that shows at least a small bit of interest in the community that pays for the game to even exist is pathetic. Do you really like playing games where the devs have their heads up their rears, care nothing about the problems people are having and take nothing even closely resembling an active role in community development? There's a reason why Dark Age was a failed concept from the start. I love the game but only a smacktard would think it to be a good idea, long term, to not advertise your product and to put the majority of the workload for community related things on 3rd party shoulders that are only involved for profitsT.
Most people are not hard core players. They haven't been playing since beta. They want to play the game at their own pace. Whether or not you wish to admit it, the swing votes win elections, and the same class of people pay the bills long term. Calling it a non issue is totally ignorant of the masses of people that do care about such things. Even using this poll as an informal group of potential customers, in your opinion, a majority are idiots and not welcome where you play. Companies rely on revenue and if more people than not say they think its a bad thing to not have something as simple as a forum, it would be a bad business decision long term to not have them.
From reading your last post you are obviously oblivious to anything but your own little world. There's a reason why people will flame you, because sometimes companies tend to listen to the loudest arguements rather than the more reasoned ones. When you act like a drama queen calling people idiots because they want a sense of community it is offensive. Now go ask your mommy to make you some lunch and cry about how the world is a bunch of stupid noobs because they don't have the same opinion as yourself. The world works because people who pay the bills usually dictate how things are run.
For those of you who think WoWs forums are full of hate and spam, you are mostly right. This is only due to the population and the fact that the game is very, very polished and mature therefore the forums are generally filled with class balance issues, and more issues that do not relate to the technical sides of things, mainly the actual gameplay.
WoWs gameplay complaints in forums look fairly stupid and annoying but the population is huge, and the complaints are still heard.
MMOs NEED forums on release, usually because of the rocky start they tend to incorperate (this may be different in LotRO because the game itself is very much like WoW and hasn't pushed the innovation bar much).
WoWs forums were not like this near and shortly after the release.
Mythic needs an easy way to reach the players, and the players need an easy way to reach Mythic.
I hope no official forums isn't becoming a trend because it's a form of community ignorance imo.
EDIT: If you think for one second that this decision will help them to focus on the game more than you are not thinking at all, like a poster already said, it is not hard to maintain a forum.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I'm torn, because part of me thinks official forums are a bad idea since 80% of the content is complaining about how someone killed them and stole their stuff or so and so is a man in real life... and most of the time its just drama crap. And part of me thinks that Official Forums are fun when there is interesting information posted about server specific content (maybe announcements about GM events or whatever) but I'm sure those could be put on the main site.
I prefer official forums, but DAOC worked just fine using ign as the semi-official forums and it was a safe assumption they would do the same thing with WAR.
So not really that big of a deal.
DOAC is still the MMO I judge other games by, My first and still my favorite.
Anyone who isn't going to play a game just because a company decides to devote resources to actually working on their game instead of running forums for idiots to whine about everything is retarded, and I'm glad they won't be a part of any gaming community that I belong to.
There are plenty of successful MMOs who's dev teams take player feedback/suggestions very seriously without running their own forums. This is a non-issue.
Sadly you know almost nothing about how easy it is to maintain a forum. Something as large as MMORPG.com, sure, it must take an army of people to run. But a forum for one game? At most it would take 1 person from the company to act as a liason and the rest is community managed. How many mods here at this site or any other large forum site are employees versus how many are dedicated forum posters that wanted to take a more active approach to their forum time? The fact that most forums are maintained and ran by the community shows me that it takes very little outside of an initial planning to run one. Telling someone that they are not worthy of being in your prescence because they would like to play a game made by a company that shows at least a small bit of interest in the community that pays for the game to even exist is pathetic. Do you really like playing games where the devs have their heads up their rears, care nothing about the problems people are having and take nothing even closely resembling an active role in community development? There's a reason why Dark Age was a failed concept from the start. I love the game but only a smacktard would think it to be a good idea, long term, to not advertise your product and to put the majority of the workload for community related things on 3rd party shoulders that are only involved for profitsT.
Most people are not hard core players. They haven't been playing since beta. They want to play the game at their own pace. Whether or not you wish to admit it, the swing votes win elections, and the same class of people pay the bills long term. Calling it a non issue is totally ignorant of the masses of people that do care about such things. Even using this poll as an informal group of potential customers, in your opinion, a majority are idiots and not welcome where you play. Companies rely on revenue and if more people than not say they think its a bad thing to not have something as simple as a forum, it would be a bad business decision long term to not have them.
From reading your last post you are obviously oblivious to anything but your own little world. There's a reason why people will flame you, because sometimes companies tend to listen to the loudest arguements rather than the more reasoned ones. When you act like a drama queen calling people idiots because they want a sense of community it is offensive. Now go ask your mommy to make you some lunch and cry about how the world is a bunch of stupid noobs because they don't have the same opinion as yourself. The world works because people who pay the bills usually dictate how things are run.
I didn't read all of your post, I got as far as
" Sadly you know almost nothing about how easy it is to maintain a forum. Something as large as MMORPG.com, sure, it must take an army of people to run. But a forum for one game?"
and then I quickly looked up and saw "Members: 553,332" and then I thought to myself, hmmmm WoW has 6 million customers.... with official forums that would mean a potential of 6,000,000 forum members.
And then I thought realistically. Ok lets take that down to English Speaking Customers so that's around 3,000,000 and lets say a third of those actually post on the forums.... that's 1,000,000.
So by your argument if it takes an army of people to run a forum with 500,000 members, then it takes two armies at the very very least to run a game like WoW's official forums. And there are actually probably more like 2,500,000 active forumites on the WoW official forums.
So lets say that WAR isn't that successful and gets around 500,000 subs, and only half of those post on the official forums, meaning 250,000.
That's still half an army. And if half an army doesn't divert resources, I don't know what does.
This has been "Fun With Numbers"
Join us in our next episode when we factor in server costs, forum moderator salaries, web designer salaries, and web administrator salaries, and actually figure out how much money it would actually take to run an official forum for a not-ver-successful game.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
I don't mind not having an official forum for Warhammer. There's plenty of fansites out there to chat on, and not to mention the guild I'm in has plenty of talk about the game to pass time until release.
50% turnout for an official forum is probably overly optimistic. My guess would be around 30%. Maybe 40% under the best conditions. You also have to remember that there are a lot of lurkers out there. Not everyone with an account that visits a forum, also posts there.
MMORPG.com has a lot more going on than just forums. The forums alone probably don't require much in the way of employees. I mean, I seriously doubt there's a paid moderator for each separate game.
All in all, the cost of running an official forum would be neglegable if the game is successful. I'm nearly positive that WAR will be a success, and will make their investors quite happy. Any projected cost for an official forum would read little more than a blip when compared to all their other upkeep costs.
I guess my point is, cost and resources aren't real concerns.
Additionally, while it is true that many idiots on official forums start demanding developer responces, the devs have no obligation to do so. In fact, anyone who titles their thread, "Devs, plz read!" could be banned from using the forums, for all I care. Forums are for talking with other players. Any involvement from the devs or community managers is just icing on the cake.
On the subject of bugs and exploits. If you want to alert the devs about a problem, then you contact them directly, either by GM ticket or some other form of feedback support. But if you want to talk about bugs and exploits with OTHER PLAYERS, then you would use a forum. And while a bug might be brought up and discussed over at TenTonHammer, it might not show up at all at WarhammerAlliance. Meaning that posters that frequent WarhammerAlliance wouldn't be alerted to it. But if there was an offiicial forum, the chance of missing an important player-driven discussion like that would be greatly reduced.
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Areel brings up yet another good point. Your are more likely to get vital information from players at a centralized or official forum. I had not even considered that particular issue.
( PS: I have gotten several complaints about the teal color, if anyone has a suggestion for a better color to use please tell me or PM me. The colors i can see well are: Green, Yellow, Purple, Red, and Teal )
Areel brings up yet another good point. Your are more likely to get vital information from players at a centralized or official forum. I had not even considered that particular issue.
( PS: I have gotten several complaints about the teal color, if anyone has a suggestion for a better color to use please tell me or PM me. The colors i can see well are: Green, Yellow, Purple, Red, and Teal )
I like the Teal. Green is also fine. Yellow hurts my eyes, and Red seems to anger me. I'd probably start subconciously flaming you if you used Red too much.
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
They wont be the first studio to go this way, some studios just can't stand the screaming and ranting that goes on with official forums.
As long as they point us towards one or two sites where the community can be be heard I'm fine with it. Without some where semi-offical how can they develop a relationship with the players or get feed back?
_________________________________________ You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
They wont be the first studio to go this way, some studios just can't stand the screaming and ranting that goes on with official forums. As long as they point us towards one or two sites where the community can be be heard I'm fine with it. Without some where semi-offical how can they develop a relationship with the players or get feed back?
While I agree on wanting forums, I have to warn you that your last point is irrelevant. Mythic has a feedback system. You can send complaints and bug reports to them directly. You can also get information from the Herald, which is a constantly updated newsletter-of-sorts. Forums are for talking with other players, NOT for talking to devs.
Also, whether or not they have official forums, community managers will be visiting whatever forums are being used. So they will be getting the pulse of the community.
I just prefer a centralized form of communication, rather than several fan-based forums that most casual gamers wouldn't even know to look for.
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Originally posted by SWGforreva lol vanguard doesnt have offical forms and its doing just fine..oh shit nm, i forgot it SUCKS ASS!
VG's state has nothing to do with not having a official forum. It has everything to do with the fact that VG the game, Sigil the game producer and SOE distributor are all garbage !!!!!
Back to original topic....I could care less. I'd rather devs focus on the game and the fan sites be left to dealing with all the unclean and unwashed masses of idiots whining and bitching about the most inane things such as was seen in WoW.
Example -
"ZOMG Joo chang the name 0f the ( A frivolous player pet cat ) Maine Coone to Black Tabby!!! WTF !!"
This change had like tons of spam postings and one that reached over 30 pages of idiots and racist ranting about crap that did not even effect the core game mechanics in WoW.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I still have not really seen a solid reason as to why official, studio-run forums are necessary, or even optimal.
Tech support and bug/exploit reports? Tech support tickets or a phone call, which also keeps bugs/exploits private.
Communication with fanbase? WAR Herald.
Asking Mythic game questions? Grab Bag.
In-game issue? Petition a GM.
What else would an official forum do? Bring players together? How many players do you need? When this is released, I bet there will be at least 5 or 6 forums with 100+ people on at a time. I cannot see any need to be 'connected' with 500K+ people, potentially.
Given all this, I see official forums as a total waste of resources. Take the money you spend on paid forum employees, servers, etc., and channel it into improving the game, no matter how little it amounts to. I am willing to bet that WoW spends a shocking amount of money running their forums each year, and for what? A flaming cesspool.
Just one question, if official forums are not needed, necessary or benificial then why do:
Current Games: World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars, City of Villains’, Eve Online, City of Heroes, D&D Online. Lineage 2, Ryzom
Upcoming Games: Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Gods and Heroes, Stargate Worlds, Star trek Online.
All have forums? Notice the 6 games not even released have them. Forums are about communities, a gathering if you will of people that like the product. EA has forums for a lot of their games, MYTHIC does not. I am hoping that EA MYTHIC will change their mind on this subject. No one loses here, the costs of supporting a forum are far out weighed by their benefit. If you are not sure what those benefits are, contact the companies above, they seem to know, but if you think the top 15 MMOs who have Forums are just missing the boat, by all means go for it... Vanguard thought they didn't need em either, I am sure that helped their already bad situation. When SONY took over, well what do you know, they created forums for Vanguard. Its the way of the MMO today, DAOC may of ran without the forums, but they did not run the best they could of.
Comments
"It's no good coming to our game if you are trying to grow weed, It's no good coming to our game if you want to make pants. It's only worth coming to our game if you want to burn things to the ground."
-Paul Barnett, WAR is coming
Here's some of the larger WAR forums:
Only-WAR Forums
WAR-RvR Forums
WarhammerAlliance Forums
VNBoards
Oh, and I did already offer my opinion on this issue... two weeks ago. You might want to try reading the 1st page, 10th post down. Uh oh. Your ass must be sore after being thrown from your high horse.
As far as "No one is crying they won't play the game," you might want to double-check that third option in the poll, skippy.
So, tell me, is it hard being simultaneously that arrogant and oblivious, or does it come naturally?
Have a great day.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
Oh, and I did already offer my opinion on this issue... two weeks ago. You might want to try reading the 1st page, 10th post down. Uh oh. Your ass must be sore after being thrown from your high horse.
As far as "No one is crying they won't play the game," you might want to double-check that third option in the poll, skippy.
So, tell me, is it hard being simultaneously that arrogant and oblivious, or does it come naturally?
Have a great day.
If you can't even see the difference between saying the thread has no real value and calling those who post in the thread whiners and complainers then your the one who was COMPLAINING about the thread? Amazing.... and I am the arrogant and oblivious one.
So it seems i have yet to be thrown off my horse. And you need to get out of dodge Skippy. I can post where I want when I want. Does not make me a whiner. Complaining about the paper cut I just got makes me a whiner (OWW). So Skippy, what was that? Is it hard to be an arrogant person who belittles others but does not like it when those others say something about it?
And you have a nice day and try to get your concepts straight.
I see this turning into a flame-fest real fast, so here's two ways for this to go down:
1.) You grow up and stop acting like an attention whore over some little blurb that wasn't directed at you in the slightest (or anyone in particular, unless you automatically associate yourself with "people who will find something to endlessly bitch about" any time such individuals are mentioned), or
2.) You'll try to sound clever once again in that eye-raping teal font while violating the twin sisters Grammar and Syntax, and what was an already pointless thread that is page after page of people repeating the exact same arguments will devolve into a giant flame war reminiscent of a rodeo clown getting stomped to death by a bull (you = clown; me = bull) until we both go out in a ban-hammer blaze of glory at the hands of the moderators.
Your move, skippy.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
But I will let this go, I don't want the post to get locked. That would please you to much.
And as I have stated before, I am disabled with a brain tumor pushing on my optic nerve, causing my vision to fail. It is easier for me to type and edit in another color than it is for me do do so in white (the white bleeds together and I must strain to see it).
And while I won't state my reasons for it on a public forum, an attack is an attack. You determined to attack those who posted on this forum. Just because it was not aimed at anyone in particular makes it no less of an attack. I deal with that BS every day in one for or another. Attacking a group makes you no less ignorant than if you attacked an individual.
You attacked the forum and those who posted in it in general and I will always defend myself, no matter how inappropriate that may be.
But this will be my last post in public about the matter. I do not want the thread locked. I believe it's a good discussion.
If you want to continue this discussion you can always PM me, but I doubt you will do that, because its not as much fun as attacking a group of people in general or trying to attack others for defending themselves.
No official forums = don't care. I'd much rather they spend their time and resources working to keep the game running smoothly rather than hosting, running, and dealing with the never-ending drama that are internet message boards.
Is there anything that hasn't been said yet at this point? Honestly.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
And a tally from our judges? Yes, it seems that Tyfreaky is currently leading in this dueling match. Lithdov is parrying with some valiant words, but unfortunately cannot sell it on the thrusts. Not uncommon when the responces are laced with a bit of hypocracy. If only he could understand that, if he didn't care what Tyfreaky has to say, he wouldn't be trying so hard to reply to everything Ty says. But the duel is just reaching a break, and both combatants should be refreshed and ready for a second round after a good night's sleep.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
It reminds me of a fairly non-PC joke that is probably well-known:
"What do you call someone who wins a gold medal in the Special Olympics?"
"A retard."
That just about sums up this contest.
I had no interest in this becoming a fight. I still have no interest in it becoming one. This topic is tedious to begin with, and was only made all the more so by the "z0mg stfu n00b troll flamer!1!!" response I got for DARING (gasp!) to express my disbelief that people were that hung up on the issue of an internet message board.
This whole thread has moved into the theater of the surreal.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
Most people are not hard core players. They haven't been playing since beta. They want to play the game at their own pace. Whether or not you wish to admit it, the swing votes win elections, and the same class of people pay the bills long term. Calling it a non issue is totally ignorant of the masses of people that do care about such things. Even using this poll as an informal group of potential customers, in your opinion, a majority are idiots and not welcome where you play. Companies rely on revenue and if more people than not say they think its a bad thing to not have something as simple as a forum, it would be a bad business decision long term to not have them.
From reading your last post you are obviously oblivious to anything but your own little world. There's a reason why people will flame you, because sometimes companies tend to listen to the loudest arguements rather than the more reasoned ones. When you act like a drama queen calling people idiots because they want a sense of community it is offensive. Now go ask your mommy to make you some lunch and cry about how the world is a bunch of stupid noobs because they don't have the same opinion as yourself. The world works because people who pay the bills usually dictate how things are run.
For those of you who think WoWs forums are full of hate and spam, you are mostly right. This is only due to the population and the fact that the game is very, very polished and mature therefore the forums are generally filled with class balance issues, and more issues that do not relate to the technical sides of things, mainly the actual gameplay.
WoWs gameplay complaints in forums look fairly stupid and annoying but the population is huge, and the complaints are still heard.
MMOs NEED forums on release, usually because of the rocky start they tend to incorperate (this may be different in LotRO because the game itself is very much like WoW and hasn't pushed the innovation bar much).
WoWs forums were not like this near and shortly after the release.
Mythic needs an easy way to reach the players, and the players need an easy way to reach Mythic.
I hope no official forums isn't becoming a trend because it's a form of community ignorance imo.
EDIT: If you think for one second that this decision will help them to focus on the game more than you are not thinking at all, like a poster already said, it is not hard to maintain a forum.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
So not really that big of a deal.
Most people are not hard core players. They haven't been playing since beta. They want to play the game at their own pace. Whether or not you wish to admit it, the swing votes win elections, and the same class of people pay the bills long term. Calling it a non issue is totally ignorant of the masses of people that do care about such things. Even using this poll as an informal group of potential customers, in your opinion, a majority are idiots and not welcome where you play. Companies rely on revenue and if more people than not say they think its a bad thing to not have something as simple as a forum, it would be a bad business decision long term to not have them.
From reading your last post you are obviously oblivious to anything but your own little world. There's a reason why people will flame you, because sometimes companies tend to listen to the loudest arguements rather than the more reasoned ones. When you act like a drama queen calling people idiots because they want a sense of community it is offensive. Now go ask your mommy to make you some lunch and cry about how the world is a bunch of stupid noobs because they don't have the same opinion as yourself. The world works because people who pay the bills usually dictate how things are run.
I didn't read all of your post, I got as far as
" Sadly you know almost nothing about how easy it is to maintain a forum. Something as large as MMORPG.com, sure, it must take an army of people to run. But a forum for one game?"
and then I quickly looked up and saw "Members: 553,332" and then I thought to myself, hmmmm WoW has 6 million customers.... with official forums that would mean a potential of 6,000,000 forum members.
And then I thought realistically. Ok lets take that down to English Speaking Customers so that's around 3,000,000 and lets say a third of those actually post on the forums.... that's 1,000,000.
So by your argument if it takes an army of people to run a forum with 500,000 members, then it takes two armies at the very very least to run a game like WoW's official forums. And there are actually probably more like 2,500,000 active forumites on the WoW official forums.
So lets say that WAR isn't that successful and gets around 500,000 subs, and only half of those post on the official forums, meaning 250,000.
That's still half an army. And if half an army doesn't divert resources, I don't know what does.
This has been "Fun With Numbers"
Join us in our next episode when we factor in server costs, forum moderator salaries, web designer salaries, and web administrator salaries, and actually figure out how much money it would actually take to run an official forum for a not-ver-successful game.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
50% turnout for an official forum is probably overly optimistic. My guess would be around 30%. Maybe 40% under the best conditions. You also have to remember that there are a lot of lurkers out there. Not everyone with an account that visits a forum, also posts there.
MMORPG.com has a lot more going on than just forums. The forums alone probably don't require much in the way of employees. I mean, I seriously doubt there's a paid moderator for each separate game.
All in all, the cost of running an official forum would be neglegable if the game is successful. I'm nearly positive that WAR will be a success, and will make their investors quite happy. Any projected cost for an official forum would read little more than a blip when compared to all their other upkeep costs.
I guess my point is, cost and resources aren't real concerns.
Additionally, while it is true that many idiots on official forums start demanding developer responces, the devs have no obligation to do so. In fact, anyone who titles their thread, "Devs, plz read!" could be banned from using the forums, for all I care. Forums are for talking with other players. Any involvement from the devs or community managers is just icing on the cake.
On the subject of bugs and exploits. If you want to alert the devs about a problem, then you contact them directly, either by GM ticket or some other form of feedback support. But if you want to talk about bugs and exploits with OTHER PLAYERS, then you would use a forum. And while a bug might be brought up and discussed over at TenTonHammer, it might not show up at all at WarhammerAlliance. Meaning that posters that frequent WarhammerAlliance wouldn't be alerted to it. But if there was an offiicial forum, the chance of missing an important player-driven discussion like that would be greatly reduced.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
( PS: I have gotten several complaints about the teal color, if anyone has a suggestion for a better color to use please tell me or PM me. The colors i can see well are: Green, Yellow, Purple, Red, and Teal )
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
They wont be the first studio to go this way, some studios just can't stand the screaming and ranting that goes on with official forums.
As long as they point us towards one or two sites where the community can be be heard I'm fine with it. Without some where semi-offical how can they develop a relationship with the players or get feed back?
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You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
While I agree on wanting forums, I have to warn you that your last point is irrelevant. Mythic has a feedback system. You can send complaints and bug reports to them directly. You can also get information from the Herald, which is a constantly updated newsletter-of-sorts. Forums are for talking with other players, NOT for talking to devs.
Also, whether or not they have official forums, community managers will be visiting whatever forums are being used. So they will be getting the pulse of the community.
I just prefer a centralized form of communication, rather than several fan-based forums that most casual gamers wouldn't even know to look for.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
VG's state has nothing to do with not having a official forum. It has everything to do with the fact that VG the game, Sigil the game producer and SOE distributor are all garbage !!!!!
Back to original topic....I could care less. I'd rather devs focus on the game and the fan sites be left to dealing with all the unclean and unwashed masses of idiots whining and bitching about the most inane things such as was seen in WoW.
Example -
This change had like tons of spam postings and one that reached over 30 pages of idiots and racist ranting about crap that did not even effect the core game mechanics in WoW.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Tech support and bug/exploit reports? Tech support tickets or a phone call, which also keeps bugs/exploits private.
Communication with fanbase? WAR Herald.
Asking Mythic game questions? Grab Bag.
In-game issue? Petition a GM.
What else would an official forum do? Bring players together? How many players do you need? When this is released, I bet there will be at least 5 or 6 forums with 100+ people on at a time. I cannot see any need to be 'connected' with 500K+ people, potentially.
Given all this, I see official forums as a total waste of resources. Take the money you spend on paid forum employees, servers, etc., and channel it into improving the game, no matter how little it amounts to. I am willing to bet that WoW spends a shocking amount of money running their forums each year, and for what? A flaming cesspool.
Just one question, if official forums are not needed, necessary or benificial then why do:
Current Games: World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars, City of Villains’, Eve Online, City of Heroes, D&D Online. Lineage 2, Ryzom
Upcoming Games: Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Gods and Heroes, Stargate Worlds, Star trek Online.
All have forums? Notice the 6 games not even released have them. Forums are about communities, a gathering if you will of people that like the product. EA has forums for a lot of their games, MYTHIC does not. I am hoping that EA MYTHIC will change their mind on this subject. No one loses here, the costs of supporting a forum are far out weighed by their benefit. If you are not sure what those benefits are, contact the companies above, they seem to know, but if you think the top 15 MMOs who have Forums are just missing the boat, by all means go for it... Vanguard thought they didn't need em either, I am sure that helped their already bad situation. When SONY took over, well what do you know, they created forums for Vanguard. Its the way of the MMO today, DAOC may of ran without the forums, but they did not run the best they could of.
/agree