Is Vanguard as bad as eveyone says. . . . . . . . ?

Luftwaffen · March 2007

i dont currently play this game i really havnt played anygame since UO went downhill few years back recently i been watching few games this was one of them now i know when most new mmos are released you see alot of PPL complaning i remeber when Daoc and SB and AO were released and about anyone i can remember was ppl bitching

Is there any good points to this game ? is there anyone who acaully likes it i think there is alot of thinks that look great about this game is there any positive reviews out there?

csthao · March 2007

this game can be fun and exciting...you can level up 3 different ways or level all 3 of them up which is adventuring crafting and diplomacy...basically adventuring is just being out there exploring the world while u go kill monsters, crafting is the spot where u can make tons of money and diplomacy is basically playing cards to get information...

so it jsut really depends on which area you prefer on choosing...but like i said you can level them all up at the same time or one at a time, but in each area it can be very time consuming...when i first started playing it was so fun because you can do so many things and meet people along the way...but once u get to the part where you get the idea of how everything is run, it jsut kinda gets repetative...

also if you were a fan of UO, you will find this game to be QUITE similar in some ways...think of it as UO in 3D...only thing this game dont have that UO does is being able to choose more than 1 profession for example u cant be a warrior using magic in vanguard but you could in UO...you can own boats, houses, be a miner,lumberjacker,quarry,carpenter, reaper, etc. alot of things that u can do like in UO....give it a try you would know what i mean...

Fignar · March 2007

Vanguard isn't a bad game and it isn't a very good game, you have people who blow things out of proportion on both sides of the fence. Personally I find it lacking and just boring due to the amount of time it takes to do anything worth while (difference between hard and boring is : hard is challenging, boring is a mind numbing grind). Best thing to do is try getting a buddy key or wait for a trial if you don't want to splash the cash or simply buy the game and see for yourself.

Riho06 · March 2007

Better to ask these questions on Silkyvenom.com or tentonhammer.com most of these posts result in a flamefest. Besides that, there's allot more information on the game there.

KnThrak · March 2007

It's tricky to say. Vanguard stands between an amazing potential (which no existing game or upcoming game remotely matches, IMO), and a horrible implementation which could barely pass as a very early beta.

Whether it's fun to you mainly depends on "how much" bleeding-edge you can enjoy - and on whether Sony SWGifies this game too eventually, in which case all time is wasted on it

Anyways, point being that Vanguard has an incredible potential, but never develops it.

Artean · March 2007

Originally posted by KnThrak

It's tricky to say. Vanguard stands between an amazing potential (which no existing game or upcoming game remotely matches, IMO), and a horrible implementation which could barely pass as a very early beta.

Well, given the history of mmorpg's, I would say that the launch of Vanguard has been pretty standard, actually.

IMO, the launching was far better than AO; slightly better than SWG, Ryzom and EVE (yes, EVE had, in addition to a serious lack of promised features, tons of bugs, crashes etc. at launch and several months thereafter); on par with EQ2; and sub-standard to WoW, City of Heroes/Villians - to name a few that I have witnessed myself.

So far, I found myself to enjoy Vanguard quite much. The main reason probably is that in my view, Sigil has managed pretty well to create a fantasy world feel more than the feel of a game or a theme park. And that is, according to my own standards, the definition of a good mmorpg: a world for players to explore, role play in, interact with and immerse them self into.

All that has a price though - a price which not all players are willing to pay: time. The time factor is important, mainly due to that:

* achivement must take time to distinguish players (characters) - if everyone is a hero, then there is no concept of heroes; and

* travel must take time to create a sense of adventure and discover.

Vanguard seem to take some time, and I am in no hurry.

Haart · March 2007

In answer to your question my friend, anyone who fails to see the potential in VGSOH is really not qualified to talk about MMOs in general. Let me just tell you that the MAIN thing with Vanguard is the HUGE system specs needed to run it in all its glory. Most ppl try it on mediocre computers, find out it wont run properly, and then start bitching about it. Yes, there is work to be done, but considering the pedigree of designers that this game has I can see very good things on the horizon. Oh and before I forget, the one thing this game bursts with is atmosphere which I believe is the one attribute a successful MMO MUST have. It brings many new ideas to the table and one only has to play it for a short length of time on a decent system to appreciate the length and quality of the work that has gone into it.

Just as a benchmark, I have E6600 conroe (2.4Ghz unclocked), Radeon 1950XT 512MB, 2xGb Corsair Memory, WD Raptor...etc etc...basically a system that cost me alot of money but will fly any of today's games with all settings up.

I have all settings turned to max on VGSOH apart from Env Shaders which are at 75%.

I get 30fps. Just. 25+ with alot of chars.

Graphically it is the most beautiful MMO there is.

Kcissem · March 2007

Originally posted by Luftwaffen

i dont currently play this game i really havnt played anygame since UO went downhill few years back recently i been watching few games this was one of them now i know when most new mmos are released you see alot of PPL complaning i remeber when Daoc and SB and AO were released and about anyone i can remember was ppl bitching
Is there any good points to this game ? is there anyone who acaully likes it i think there is alot of thinks that look great about this game is there any positive reviews out there?

No the game is not as bad as everyone says, and it's also not as good as some say. The game has some issues but it also has huge potential. Which the number of issues seems to get smaller and smaller with each patch since release for me. The best answer anyone can give you is just to either try to get a buddy key or wait for a trial and try it out yourself.

xAlrythx · March 2007

+ Pros

It's new
Harvesting resources feels real and looks great
Lots of race/class choice
Great community in game
Has alot of potential (this is questionable)
Can customise your characters appearance at any time at the character select screen
You can move slowly whilst casting most if not all non instant-cast spells
Housing and Ships (if you can make it that far without putting your head through the wall from the poor crafting)
Huge world

- Cons

It's very unpolished, performance issues and bugs will get to you sometimes
Lack of innovation
Crafting is overcomplicated and just requires more clicking and more time (I was really dissapointed in this department)
Diplomacy is just a poorly made mini-game that gets very boring, very quickly
The world feels empty sometimes
Classes are not all that different from one another
PvP has no point, just kill other players for literally no reason
The animation is poor in some situations
Graphics are decent, but the colours are bland (this is a matter of taste)
UI is horrible (can be fixed with a new one)
Very poor character customisation, don't listen when people tell you otherwise, 4 faces that look almost identical is not great character customisation, the only different you see from you and others the same race as you is if they are bigger than you or smaller, the other details are unnoticed
You need a decent gaming rig to get the most out of it (this is also questionable)
Skill chains and combos are nothing new and will not make combat more fun for you

Conclusion

Vanguard is a waste of money, make sure you [get a trial or buddy pass] before you go ahead and buy it, because more than likely you will be dissapointed. The games performance and bugs I could bare with, they didn't affect me much at all. It was the typical grinding gameplay mixed with very poor crafting, poor animations, uninteresting classes, no innovation what-so-ever and diplomacy which was fun for five minutes then it just was horrible not to mention practically useless.

I could go on but now you have my opinion, this game is a sinking ship, I did not enjoy it for long.

GreenHell · March 2007

I have to agree with the people that say try it for yourself. I wouldnt trust anyones opinion about this game atleast not on these boards.

Porrsmurfen · March 2007

It's bad ... Very bad.

Save yourself !

Kcissem · March 2007

Originally posted by Porrsmurfen

It's bad ... Very bad.
Save yourself !

Dont listen this guy, again try it out yourself but save your money though. like i said get a buddy pass or wait for a trial. No point in wasting 50 bucks if you don't like it, unless you have the money and just don't care if it's wasted, personally i've wasted tons of cash on games i bought and barely played for one reason or another.

cupertino · March 2007

Yes, yes it is, its 8 years is too late, its an EQ1 remake and nothing more. If you liked EQ1 then go for it else forget it.

On the positive Sigil are waking up to players needs and going back on their so called key features, and adding teleportation. For some reason they thought the average player would enjoy riding a mount for 20mins to get from point A to B.

Theres also a reason theirs no free trial (except getting hold of a buddy key), and its not because the servers are full.

Samuraisword · March 2007

Originally posted by cupertino

Yes, yes it is, its 8 years is too late, its an EQ1 remake and nothing more. If you liked EQ1 then go for it else forget it.

On the positive Sigil are waking up to players needs and going back on their so called key features, and adding teleportation. For some reason they thought the average player would enjoy riding a mount for 20mins to get from point A to B.

They knew the average " casual" player would not enjoy realistic travel times, but that was not their stated original hardcore target audience. They have flipflopped since partnering with SOE though and had such a shaky launch that alienated both hardcore and casual gamers. I don't think dummying down the game is a smart move though as they will completely alienate the hardcore who are the main ones still supporting Vanguard.

Kcissem · March 2007

Originally posted by cupertino

Yes, yes it is, its 8 years is too late, its an EQ1 remake and nothing more. If you liked EQ1 then go for it else forget it.

On the positive Sigil are waking up to players needs and going back on their so called key features, and adding teleportation. For some reason they thought the average player would enjoy riding a mount for 20mins to get from point A to B.

Theres also a reason theirs no free trial (except getting hold of a buddy key), and its not because the servers are full.

i am an average player and i enjoy the travel, i will never use the teleportation system even if it implemented. To me mmo's are not all about lvling, i could care less if i ever reach max level as i'm enjoying all 3 spheres. Only reason most people don't enjoy the travel is cause they are spoiled by other games that has these so called teleporters which just makes those worlds seem even smaller IMO. It's the easy way out and while i like VG i actually am dissappointed at sigil for considering putting these teleporters in. It relegates all other forms of travel to meaningless. what's the point of a horse, or boat or a flying mount if you can just teleport to a given location?

edit: as i thought about it and as much as i hate to say it, if sigil intends to add a teleportation system they need to do it more like WoW, instead of it being a instant teleport, it should use flight paths to do the same thing, at least that way it wouldn't hurt the immersiveness of the world all that much. They already have boats paths, so why not flight paths if they seriously considering a teleport system?

also as far a free trials, most mmo's don't offer free trial till atleast a few months after release, and as you put it's not because the other mmo's server were full either, it's just for business reasons, not offering free trials at first tends to get a few more people to buy and try as most that are seriously interested does not want to wait to try.

Unknown · March 2007

Originally posted by Luftwaffen

i dont currently play this game i really havnt played anygame since UO went downhill few years back recently i been watching few games this was one of them now i know when most new mmos are released you see alot of PPL complaning i remeber when Daoc and SB and AO were released and about anyone i can remember was ppl bitching
Is there any good points to this game ? is there anyone who acaully likes it i think there is alot of thinks that look great about this game is there any positive reviews out there?

Well AO and SB both had serious problems, so the bitching wasn't all just noise. DAoC though was supposedly fairly decent. Certainly complaints are de rigeur for MMORPGs. But a number of MMOs have deserved.

In general for computer stuff the users will punish you completely out of proportion. Why do you think so many Devs really have no desire to listen to the user base? Half of it is either just plan wrong or silly temper tantrums.

But there is no doubt that Vanguard has had its share of bugs. And it sounds like the class "balance" might be bit off.

Fignar · March 2007

Originally posted by Haart

In answer to your question my friend, anyone who fails to see the potential in VGSOH is really not qualified to talk about MMOs in general. Let me just tell you that the MAIN thing with Vanguard is the HUGE system specs needed to run it in all its glory. Most ppl try it on mediocre computers, find out it wont run properly, and then start bitching about it. Yes, there is work to be done, but considering the pedigree of designers that this game has I can see very good things on the horizon. Oh and before I forget, the one thing this game bursts with is atmosphere which I believe is the one attribute a successful MMO MUST have. It brings many new ideas to the table and one only has to play it for a short length of time on a decent system to appreciate the length and quality of the work that has gone into it.
Just as a benchmark, I have E6600 conroe (2.4Ghz unclocked), Radeon 1950XT 512MB, 2xGb Corsair Memory, WD Raptor...etc etc...basically a system that cost me alot of money but will fly any of today's games with all settings up.
I have all settings turned to max on VGSOH apart from Env Shaders which are at 75%.
I get 30fps. Just. 25+ with alot of chars.
Graphically it is the most beautiful MMO there is.

You seen my system? Vanguard still runs like horse shit at times on my PC and I wouldn't exactly call my system mediocre. That being said we arn't talking about how VG looks compared to say games such as WoW or EvE etc. We are talking about gameplay and how enjoyable the experience is; at this moment in time VGSOH is more of a grind/snore fest then a amazing experience. Potential is one thing and reality is another and the reality is this game is boring and needs drastic improvement to keep people interested.

Unknown · March 2007

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Originally posted by cupertino

Yes, yes it is, its 8 years is too late, its an EQ1 remake and nothing more. If you liked EQ1 then go for it else forget it.

On the positive Sigil are waking up to players needs and going back on their so called key features, and adding teleportation. For some reason they thought the average player would enjoy riding a mount for 20mins to get from point A to B.

They knew the average " casual" player would not enjoy realistic travel times, but that was not their stated original hardcore target audience. They have flipflopped since partnering with SOE though and had such a shaky launch that alienated both hardcore and casual gamers. I don't think dummying down the game is a smart move though as they will completely alienate the hardcore who are the main ones still supporting Vanguard. Realistic travel times isn't the problem. The fact that they serve no purpose and get in the way of the main point of the game (grinding and dungeon runs ) is the main problem. BMQ does not and never will understand this. Eve has even more realistic travel times than EQ or Vanguard but they serve a purpose and do not stand opposed to ISK (money) gains and thus do not annoy casuals or hardcores who understand the game. You simply pick a home system.

This is one of the reasons the game is fundamentally flawed and why Vanguard's "potential" is wishful thinking.

Perjure · March 2007

Game is a Shadow Bane/DnL mix and has many issues atm. Possibly could end up being fantastic, but that was said about DnL as well. You do need a very high end rig to run the game even marginally well. I would try to get a buddy pass or wait for a trial, I cancelled my sub and am waiting for improvements. I can run the game, but there are still too many bugs for me. Graphics are ok, not the best, not the worst. Performance and bugs are really the issues, once (if) those are cleared up the game should be a blast.

Pantura · March 2007

I was sceptic about other's opinions just like you seem and was lucky enough to get a buddy key from my friend. I don't have a good computer so I can't really comment so much on performance. As any new is bound to lag and crash with overall low fps.

I started out with very open mind and just played like I'd never heard of it before. First few days were nice. Quests weren't really more than kill X number of things and gather Y number of their trophies.

I really started enjoying myself when I hit level 10 in andventuring, started to craft and did a few diplomacy quests. I was again lucky that I started my trial just when there was a double xp event coming. There were many parties going on all the time and it wasn't hard to find a group for about anything. All of the aspects were feeling so deep I felt like I was actually living in real world.

Too bad this didn't last. By the time the next weekend and yes, another double xp one, it started to feel just boring. I thought crafting was much deeper but was it? You just had 5 more buttons instead of one and it all came down to stats and numbers if you succeed or not.

Diplomacy started to feel like horrible grind. I would make a good deck and basically use the same cards in the exact same order again and again and again.

Adventuring still would deliver the most for me or anyone who enjoys just massive areas to explore. Too bad I couldn't really enjoy this due to my comp specs.

Overall Vanguard would be a decent way to kill some time if it wasn't the most expensive on the market and I could afford better cpu, gpu,mb and memory. You might very well like it but like many of the others seem to have said. It would be a good idea to get some feeling of it first.

Kcissem · March 2007

Originally posted by Vyce

Game is a Shadow Bane/DnL mix and has many issues atm. Possibly could end up being fantastic, but that was said about DnL as well. You do need a very high end rig to run the game even marginally well. I would try to get a buddy pass or wait for a trial, I cancelled my sub and am waiting for improvements. I can run the game, but there are still too many bugs for me. Graphics are ok, not the best, not the worst. Performance and bugs are really the issues, once (if) those are cleared up the game should be a blast.

I wouldn't lump dnl with vg at all, dnl had a lot worse problems then vg ever had so far. IF vg was like dnl i would not be playing it, I followed dnl and all it's promise since that game was first announced. looked forward to it for years and was so dissapointed in it at release, i even gave it a chance and continued the sub for about 2months than cancelled, luckily i was not a pioneer but i was one of those that were scammed with farlen tryin to charge me every month afteer cancellation, but i was smart enough to delete my card info off of click n'buy. Again, vg is nothing like dnl, atleast most things work with vg while nothing worked at all with dnl and still doesn't work.

Arawon · March 2007

I played VG in late beta and up till a day ago.Among its problems: it is not stable...Bugs are signifigant and continuing...major elements are poorly thought out(how can you design an enormous world and not realize in a forced grouping game that there will be a problem getting guild groups or regular groups together !!! ),advancement if you do not group is very slow aka grindfest/repetative,two of the major hooks in the game are about to be negated(ships,flying mounts) since there will be insta transport,crafting is a bug ridden grindfest with minimal items you can make and sell ,player adventure experience has been hyped to 2x normal levels the past two weekends leaving crafters in the dust with an inability to craft anything the current player base might want etc etc.

Net net the game was lauched 6 months too early...and had flawed thinking .I am deeply disapointed, but for me its a diamond in a far to rough state to just have fun .

Arawon · March 2007

Originally posted by Arawon

I played VG in late beta and up till a day ago.Among its problems: it is not stable...Bugs are signifigant and continuing...major elements are poorly thought out(how can you design an enormous world and not realize in a forced grouping game that there will be a problem getting guild groups or regular groups together !!! ),advancement if you do not group is very slow aka grindfest/repetative,two of the major hooks in the game are about to be negated(ships,flying mounts) since there will be insta transport,crafting is a bug ridden grindfest with minimal items you can make and sell ,player adventure experience has been hyped to 2x normal levels the past two weekends leaving crafters in the dust with an inability to craft anything the current player base might want .Class balance problems,unfinished pvp,unfinished classes(some spell sounds are just awfull and character creation is a poor joke on some classes).I could continue but you get the sense of it.
Net net the game was lauched 6 months too early...and had flawed thinking .I am deeply disapointed, but for me its a diamond in a far to rough state to just have fun .

Elsabolts · March 2007

Excellent game im running it fine problems are being delt with as fast as they can preformance is getting better. The best thing yet is the gold farmers are getting kicked fast and this is the only online game i see doing it and then letting you know about in game.

Yukkione · March 2007

This is the wrong site for opinions on vanguard from people that have played it for any significant length of time. Try Silyvenom or tentonhammer. What you really get here are alot of SOE haters, WOW fanboys and people with uber rigs who cry they dont get 60 fps.

Deathstrike2 · March 2007

Originally posted by Artean

Originally posted by KnThrak

It's tricky to say. Vanguard stands between an amazing potential (which no existing game or upcoming game remotely matches, IMO), and a horrible implementation which could barely pass as a very early beta.

Well, given the history of mmorpg's, I would say that the launch of Vanguard has been pretty standard, actually.

The reason the launch as very bad is because the game wasn't ready for launch. It still isn't. If Sigil had the money and would have been able to launch when the game was ready, Vanguard would probably be topping all the charts. However, in its current state, it's a beta game that happens to have a monthly fee.

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