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Opinion: Skill-based or Level-based?
Forcan
Member UncommonPosts: 700
I think to some degree this topic has been covered before in the discussion, but I want to know the reason behind everyone's choice, so here it is again (I'm a GSP student in DeVry, and this is basically what I'll use to get some idea to help me shape my own game idea.)
Which would you prefer in your MMO, and why?
Skill-based: No preset class and stats, and no character level. You just learn the skill, and improve it by keep using it and/or xp collection to get to the next skill level. You can choose your own role in group combat and solo combat.
Level-based: With preset class and stats, and character level. You will know your role better, but you can't really change your role at all.
I want to know the reason for the choices you guys have, so keep them coming.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Comments
I want to be my individual character!
I want to be a ... creature handler..
RIP SWG.
Skill based for sure.
Star Wars Galaxies - Pre-NGE: Want to be the best guy with a rifle? Just train rifles! Want to be good with a rifle and good at healing? Be a medic and a rifleman!
Want to move quickly in difficult terrain? Be a ranger, or a scout!
Or the EVE analogy, want to be the best battleship pilot? Train battleship related items. Want to be good at flying many ships train skills for that.
Class based is not my best idea of a fun time, it allows some versatility, but not the kind I like as you still typically have limited focus, and are not allowed to focus elsewhere. WoW example: talent trees are typically very limited and limiting in the class frame. Warriors do not delve into magic, the question is, why couldn't someone be a warrior and a mage? Or a stealthy warrior/rogue? Or maybe a Priest/Mage? This although less limiting is still limiting if you allow "dual classes"
I guess that's why I play SL, but with all the similar looking people there it's obvious originality isn't for everyone. Which of course is ok, not trying to bash anyone.
Edit to add: NOT like SWG. Think skill based like Elder Scrolls without the level. IE; I picked a lock, lock picking goes up. Makes sense.
They came from the sea and they came from the sky, Captain America is going to die!
skill based.
I like being able to choose what I wanna do. Ala Pre-CU SWG
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
Star Wars Galaxies did something similar to this, limiting the skill points you could spend, but not limiting the combinations. This means people should know their role and should know that certain combinations make better sense than others. If you like to fight, being a weaponsmith and armorsmith is a bad idea. But if you like to fight and craft on the side, Weaponsmith+Rifleman makes more sense. But SWG is another story.
It's not just a matter of either or...
You can have both...a hybrid of the two, skills and levels!
It's scary how brainwashed you people are!!
Skill based
The problem with skill based games, which I think only one other poster mentioned, it's very hard to balance all possible combination of skills. Usually this means there are about 5 cookie-cutters running around...which are then your indirect 'classes'. Also, skillups are really just a bunch of little level ups. You gain one more notch than you had before.
In the worst case scenario, you have one really uber skill combination which then everyone and their brother adheres to, so as to remain competative. This totally negates the whole 'I'm unique!' reason behind a skill system.
The really funny thing is most people will agree UO is the best skill system we've seen so far, yet UO is where the tank-mage template pretty much was the thing to be for a very long time. People don't remember that though.
Also, skill based games have a VERY hard time balancing mob vs player power. I've yet to see a skill based game with good PvE.
UO - PvE sucked
EvE - lol
SWG - lololol
It's hard enough to balance mob vs player power even in a structured level type game. There you might only have 8 classes. Now imagine a game with over 50 combat skills and a player can max say 10 of those. That's over 500 combinations to test and tweak. I predict an ample amount of nerf bat in the future of a game like that.
While most players love the flexibility of a skill-based system, most of them also fail to realize how impossible it is to balance.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
Credit for what? Being smart enough to understand their options?
OK, I will...just as soon as I see some evidence of it! lol
I did a own search a month ago, it turned out that skill based is more common in Europe and level based in USA.
Me beeing from sweden didnt heard of levels before i was almost 25 years old.
So levels is the weirdest thing possibly. I dont understand how they could work in a game?? I did try to play WoW, but couldent understand why i couldent do my own character.
People tent to say it help you know your part?? Why would i wanna know my or anybody elses part?? This sound a little bit as a carebear to me.
So skill is the only way i can play MMO.
Skill levels are best because (in Eve Online):
1) You have more freedom to choose what you want to be.
2) You can think of a combination the developers never considered! A good example is the 'nanophoons'.
3) You never 'max out' - it's an on-going story of adaption (e.g. you don't hit level 70 and realise that's it). I'm really looking forward to how my avatar will turn out after five years of skill experience! Amazing! Think of that!!
4) Although 'cookie-cutter' set-ups can happen (e.g. blasterthron), you can tweek things in many ways to match your style 100%.
5) You build on yourself, so it's an on-going story (e.g. "Oh good! I can buy a cheap ship because of the old days when I used to be a trader!")
6) Developers can introduce new skills and everyone can benefit if they so choose - e.g. there is no having to start again if you really wished you had been a warlock rather than a druid (sound familiar anyone?!)
7) If you're busy moving house or revising etc. you can still increase your skills offline.
What more reasons do you need?!
I voted skill based; hybrids can be good also, but as others have said, it really depends on the game. For example, if it has raiding, I assume it would need to be a class based game and that's where the people are coming from who prefer to know their role and others roles- thats just not my thing in general.
we already have plenty of class based games, I'd like to see more diversity in this amoung other things between all the MMO's. As for balance concerns like the old tank-mage point, I think a more developed stat system could have helped a lot there.
Those of us who have played games such as UO and pre-NGE SWG interpret skill-BASED as games that are free from the constraints of having to gain XP points, not simply games that have skills that you can build through their use. The associated freedom of choice in game play in said games is just as, if not more, important than the flexibility of the skill system itself.
A hybrid system is NOT the best of both worlds. It is a COMPROMISE between the two.
Some games have tried to do this with "specs" or "Talents" but they fall into the "preferred" trap and honestly have not allowed for enough customization IMO.
I would love to see somebody come up with the perfect balance of the two, but the push by producers for the next paycheck will probally prevent this from happening anytime soon.
Those of us who have played games such as UO and pre-NGE SWG interpret skill-BASED as games that are free from the constraints of having to gain XP points, not simply games that have skills that you can build through their use. The associated freedom of choice in game play in said games is just as, if not more, important than the flexibility of the skill system itself.
A hybrid system is NOT the best of both worlds. It is a COMPROMISE between the two. As I said, it really depends on the game and how it is made. Having to level doesn't instantly mean having to quest or kill things to level up. There are more ways to level up a character then to use XP, but it is true that XP is just an easy way out for developers and it is often used. Of course, some people wouldn't consider a game an MMORPG without some form of XP, so it's all in the eye of the gamer.
And what I meant was that both sides would have a bit of what they want, and I'm sure it would please enough people to create a nice sized playerbase. Though you are right, you can't please everyone.