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SCI-FI or FANTASY

Enforcer71Enforcer71 Member UncommonPosts: 780
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

Hello all,

I watch up and coming games all the time and always looking for a little news on possible games in the works. One thing I am very interested in are the prospects for more Sci-Fi MMO's.. Stargate Worlds and Huxley look very interesting ATM.

Anyway, what I was most curious about was how most of you feel about other types of MMO. Fantasy MMO has always been the top types of MMO out there, however I have seen more Sci-Fi ones slowly popping up.

What type of MMO are you interested in and why?

 

Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC

«1

Comments

  • uruku_xuruku_x Member Posts: 129
    Post apoc, victorian, steampunk, horror, any of those would get me goin'.



    I think a reason we see alot of fantasy MMO's is because alot of the work is done for ya. Magic, dragons, swords, all too similar races and so on.



    I would love a good Sci-Fi MMO, I ahven't found one I can  play for more than a month yet tho. Sci-Fi I'd think is harder to do.

    They came from the sea and they came from the sky, Captain America is going to die!

  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,347
    Because of it's nature, sci-fi for the masses is harder to write for. {Not just MMORPG, but TV and movies as well.) It comes with a barrel full of paradoxes and "damned if you do damned if you don't" problems. For example if the settings has aliens how will the look, humanoid or non-humanoid. If they look like people in costume you're going to get complaints of cheesy aliens. On the other hand if the aliens look like something that gives Lovecraft cold sweats the audience can't empathize with them very well. Who would most people rather play, a Klingon from Star Trek or a hutt from Star Wars?



    Sci-fi is roughly divided into two camps, hard and soft. Hard sci-fi easily goes into horror like the first two Alien movies (no faster than light travel, people still used guns, starships felt more like submarines than cruise ships, etc). Soft sci-fi is Star Trek, Star Wars, and what most people think SF is. Unfortunatley it's difficult to do hard SF without it being gritty and dark so probably not as likely to do as well.



    Fantasy on the other hand is outside of science and can be pretty much anything and be accepted because "it's just fantasy". Cliches like elves and dwarves and orcs are accepted and missed if they aren't there. Ultimately fantasy comes directly from our own history, our folklore, our myths. In a way the same is true of SF but we expect it to be different. We want it to be realistic yet at the same time we want it to be fantastic. If we try to have it be both, it can become too strange and alien to play.



    I'm not going to say game developers are uncreative or lazy. I will say it's a lot harder to do a good SF setting that will sell than fantasy. And because harder means more expensive and more likely to fail, we shouldn't be surprised that we don't see them as much.



    PS I know I've greatly simplified things, but I want to keep this post relatively short.
  • bobblerbobbler Member UncommonPosts: 810
    i like sci fi mmos. not many get them right and they're not many even made. anarchy online being one of my favorites.

    image

  • SigneSigne Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,524
    I'm with uruku_x on this.  I'd love to give 'something else' a go, just for a change.  Unfortunately, I don't see a good, "other" on the horizon right now.  Hopefully, someone will take the plunge.  If they do, maybe others will follow.   Hopefully, there would be enough people looking for something different to make it worth the effort.
  • rob1101rob1101 Member Posts: 263
    Originally posted by Alverant

    Because of it's nature, sci-fi for the masses is harder to write for. {Not just MMORPG, but TV and movies as well.) It comes with a barrel full of paradoxes and "damned if you do damned if you don't" problems. For example if the settings has aliens how will the look, humanoid or non-humanoid. If they look like people in costume you're going to get complaints of cheesy aliens. On the other hand if the aliens look like something that gives Lovecraft cold sweats the audience can't empathize with them very well. Who would most people rather play, a Klingon from Star Trek or a hutt from Star Wars?



    Sci-fi is roughly divided into two camps, hard and soft. Hard sci-fi easily goes into horror like the first two Alien movies (no faster than light travel, people still used guns, starships felt more like submarines than cruise ships, etc). Soft sci-fi is Star Trek, Star Wars, and what most people think SF is. Unfortunatley it's difficult to do hard SF without it being gritty and dark so probably not as likely to do as well.



    Fantasy on the other hand is outside of science and can be pretty much anything and be accepted because "it's just fantasy". Cliches like elves and dwarves and orcs are accepted and missed if they aren't there. Ultimately fantasy comes directly from our own history, our folklore, our myths. In a way the same is true of SF but we expect it to be different. We want it to be realistic yet at the same time we want it to be fantastic. If we try to have it be both, it can become too strange and alien to play.



    I'm not going to say game developers are uncreative or lazy. I will say it's a lot harder to do a good SF setting that will sell than fantasy. And because harder means more expensive and more likely to fail, we shouldn't be surprised that we don't see them as much.



    PS I know I've greatly simplified things, but I want to keep this post relatively short.
    lol couldn't have said it better my self
  • MithrandixMithrandix Member Posts: 76
    Fantasy, because i tend to roleplay better in a fantasy world than in a sci fi world. Eg. cant roleplay my spaceship w/o characteristics than i could roleplay a lost dwarven miner

    "It's no good coming to our game if you are trying to grow weed, It's no good coming to our game if you want to make pants. It's only worth coming to our game if you want to burn things to the ground."
    -Paul Barnett, WAR is coming

  • KurushKurush Member Posts: 1,303
    Originally posted by Alverant

    Because of it's nature, sci-fi for the masses is harder to write for. {Not just MMORPG, but TV and movies as well.) It comes with a barrel full of paradoxes and "damned if you do damned if you don't" problems. For example if the settings has aliens how will the look, humanoid or non-humanoid. If they look like people in costume you're going to get complaints of cheesy aliens. On the other hand if the aliens look like something that gives Lovecraft cold sweats the audience can't empathize with them very well. Who would most people rather play, a Klingon from Star Trek or a hutt from Star Wars?



    Sci-fi is roughly divided into two camps, hard and soft. Hard sci-fi easily goes into horror like the first two Alien movies (no faster than light travel, people still used guns, starships felt more like submarines than cruise ships, etc). Soft sci-fi is Star Trek, Star Wars, and what most people think SF is. Unfortunatley it's difficult to do hard SF without it being gritty and dark so probably not as likely to do as well.



    Fantasy on the other hand is outside of science and can be pretty much anything and be accepted because "it's just fantasy". Cliches like elves and dwarves and orcs are accepted and missed if they aren't there. Ultimately fantasy comes directly from our own history, our folklore, our myths. In a way the same is true of SF but we expect it to be different. We want it to be realistic yet at the same time we want it to be fantastic. If we try to have it be both, it can become too strange and alien to play.



    I'm not going to say game developers are uncreative or lazy. I will say it's a lot harder to do a good SF setting that will sell than fantasy. And because harder means more expensive and more likely to fail, we shouldn't be surprised that we don't see them as much.



    PS I know I've greatly simplified things, but I want to keep this post relatively short.
    Sometimes the material just defeats itself in terms of conversion, to be honest.  Look at your "hard sci-fi", as you call it.  In most cases, the stories are based on suspense, with the humans fighting for survival against a foe who has superior combat ability.  That's great for a shooter series.  Alien vs. Predator 2 was an awesome game, and the best moments of the marine campaign were based on suspense.



    MMORPG's, on the other hand, are not based on suspense.  By definition, they're predictable and repetitive.  At most, you're surprised once, then you're no longer surprised as you grind that event over and over.  If you were a space marine who killed 1,000,000 aliens each day to become stronger, the most basic principles of the movies would no longer make sense at all.



    Something like Star Trek, though, is a lot more easily lended to conversion.  There are a ton of generic enemies, and the protagonists have a ton of generic, disposable characters to get killed by them, even though they always win in the end.  That lends itself a lot more to the kind of heroic always-win scenarios you see in MMORPG's.


  • Inf666Inf666 Member UncommonPosts: 513
    Why not both? Imagine a futuristic world with modern technology that uses magic (mana) as its powersource. You would have magical lightsword wielding warriors to rifle using rangers and healers that use psychic powers. Rogues can cloak themselves to become invisible and pet users would be using either robots or demons. Imagine the possibilitys for crafters in such a world. Imagine what a skill based system could give us. Teleporting pistol using psychics with a pet fairy. Err...

    ---
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

  • FlemFlem Member UncommonPosts: 2,870
    Originally posted by Inf666

    Why not both? Imagine a futuristic world with modern technology that uses magic (mana) as its powersource. You would have magical lightsword wielding warriors to rifle using rangers and healers that use psychic powers. Rogues can cloak themselves to become invisible and pet users would be using either robots or demons. Imagine the possibilitys for crafters in such a world. Imagine what a skill based system could give us. Teleporting pistol using psychics with a pet fairy. Err...
    Sounds like the RPG game Arcanum.  That type of setting would make a decent MMO.
  • MuffinStumpMuffinStump Member UncommonPosts: 474

    Originally posted by Flem
    Originally posted by Inf666
    Why not both? Imagine a futuristic world with modern technology that uses magic (mana) as its powersource. You would have magical lightsword wielding warriors to rifle using rangers and healers that use psychic powers. Rogues can cloak themselves to become invisible and pet users would be using either robots or demons. Imagine the possibilitys for crafters in such a world. Imagine what a skill based system could give us. Teleporting pistol using psychics with a pet fairy. Err...
    Sounds like the RPG game Arcanum. That type of setting would make a decent MMO.


    I hate to say it yet again (In this I am a broken record - btw that was a vinyl disc that...ah forget it) but Shadowrun has a great environment where magic and technology exist in a post-apocalyptic corporate run world. Although generally magic and tech don't mix too well in the Shadowrun world and tribal societies wield some power as well.

    Perhaps the Microsoft FPS will take off and create an interest in such a project. Now I'm rambling...

  • jsw40jsw40 Member Posts: 214
    I'd take a good Sci-Fi over a good Fantasy any day, if we're talking about Sword and Sorcery Fantasy.



    I'm so sick of seeing Orcs, Elves, Dwarves and Demons that I can hardly stomach MMOs anymore. However, Fantasy MMOs like say... City of Heroes are refreshing and add a new flavor to the genre.
  • DrQuantumDrQuantum Member Posts: 12
    The problem with Sci Fi (and it's not really a problem) is that it branches off to so many subgenres and to focus on the one that could be a successful MMO is a matter or trial and error which can get expensive.  This ambiguity could be what scares off a lot of major developers.
  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905

    Fantasy is pretty much tapped out. How many more ways do you want to repackage the same thing?  Make a generic fantasy race, put on some chainmail or robes and go out a kill 10 rats until you level with a raid waiting for you at the end. IMHO the genre has the pretty well covered at this point.

    Time for MMO's to grow up and get out of the fantasy grinder diapers and start becoming creative, entertaining and engaging. Its so sad how we keep getting the same thing over and over and people here actually argue about which one is better when they are all basically the same. Personally I'm ditching all my fantasy games. I just can't take another EQ repacked clone. The game industry has some awesome titles out there, none of which are fantasy and here we are 10 years later (since UO) still getting the same sh*t shoveled down our throats.

  • Jumper2kJumper2k Member UncommonPosts: 133
    Originally posted by Inf666

    Why not both? Imagine a futuristic world with modern technology that uses magic (mana) as its powersource. You would have magical lightsword wielding warriors to rifle using rangers and healers that use psychic powers. Rogues can cloak themselves to become invisible and pet users would be using either robots or demons. Imagine the possibilitys for crafters in such a world. Imagine what a skill based system could give us. Teleporting pistol using psychics with a pet fairy. Err...



    could have a mix of fantasy/sci fi with the Warhammer 40k MMO they've recently announced

    Anyway... I'll take Sci Fi over fantasy any day... how about a SWG 2  ... or KOTOR MMO....

    I'll give STO a go... but i'm not holding my breath. I dislike only being able to be starfleet. I wanna be able to be other factions like Klingon empire or Romulan etc etc etc............. or in that same line of thought i'd also like the chance to have no affiliation... maybe be  a pirate ganking helpless vessels... or devising plans to gank starfleet vessels (likely a hard but doable prospect) .. ok im done.

    image


    Currently Playing: WoW (somewhat)
    Testing: None
    Played: WoW, CoV, AL, SWG, VC, EVE, SWToR

  • Cor4xCor4x Member Posts: 241
    I really liked running shadowrun games, so I'd be in for that one unless it was miker$of.



    Steampunk I don't like.



    Fantasy, as others have said, is beaten to death.



    Sci-fi I like and have played a few, but they seem to want to stick with the fantasy models and just change spells to guns or nanobots or whatever.



    I think a reality-shift game would be cool, either like Torg (anyone remember THAT?!) or even simply a matrix game, whereby everyone is a decker and the mainframes are places. The mobs are programs (and so are you basically) then you could have pretty much whatever you could think of in terms of powers.



    I'm a programmer and I think that putting in a way to script stuff that your character does would be awesome, but I imagine it would be irritating for non-programmers unless it was dumbed down.



    Horror would get my attention right away, but it would be so hard to come up with a premise other than something like Bureau 13 (Stalking the Night Fantastic FTW!).

    image

  • revslaverevslave Member UncommonPosts: 154
    Hello



            I think i am just tired of the same old fantasy stroy line , classes and races.  I want to see something diffrent, not just  WoW dressed up in silver jump suits and armed w/ anal probes.  I do not agree w/ the idea that sci-fi being limited by being hard and soft , and that fantasy can have anything becouse hell it is fantasy.  Sci-fi can just as easly have anything you want, becouse well it is the future.  Any idea that is expressed in a fatasy game can just as easly be implemented in a sci-fi game.

           Sci-fi however can have a much broader story line, i feel that most fanasy mmo are limited by there balck and white view point of how the game works. And for the most part i beleive that  l when you play a fantasy game you allready have a definate view point on how the world should be.  Orcs are bad , Dwarves are good, Dragons are there for you to kill and then for you to take there treasure, Paldins fight for what is right and just, and the bad mages are always mad, at what i have no idea but they are always mad.

           A good game should have an ingaging story line, there are no rules to what can be in sci-fi, if you can think it up it can be there. Either in a space oprea with huge ships and alien ideals, to cyber punk worlds where a mixture of drugs, capitalism gone astray, true vitrual reality and interbreading of humans and dogs (jeff noon FTW) to Psot-Apoc settings with nuclear fallout and talking apes.  You could do the same with fatasy but people are too set in there ways allready.

           GOOD sci-fi in general makes you take a second look at the world we live in.  MMO's can create a virtual world but if we can not realte to it is distant and fake. Unfortunitly i believe that any game comming out wather it is fantasy , sci-fi , or some mix ( when is the rifts mmo comming out ;> ) most dev. and/or publishers will not take a risk to go against the grain and create something that truly challenges the people that play.  I can only hope that these same people feel that w/ a sci-fi game that can some what push the envelope alittle bit more.

    And with the biggest sci-fi mmo's comming out being startrek and Stargate this will most likly not happen.  I am looking forward however to Fallen Earth and Warhammer 40k, manly becouse both have the potental to make me take a step back and look at my own narrow view of our world.      



    Welcome Home

    Rev

       

    image

  • Enforcer71Enforcer71 Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Great replies everyone and much appreciated! I think a lot of you had some very good points and some interesting ones at that. Thanks for the voting

    Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
    80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
    Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
    and he will bring the others home.
    -Heraclitus 500BC

  • SuperZwerverSuperZwerver Member Posts: 293

    Sci-Fi for me :) My first MMO I ever played was Anarchy Online and I still have good memories of it.

    Sadly though there arent any good Sci-Fi MMO's around atm so I'm stuck with WoW for now ;p Which I like too of course, but would probably like even more if it had been World of Starcraft xD

    I'm kinda waiting on Tabula Rasa, simply cause of the style and sci-fi elements. Really hope it will be good.

    Flych - 70 Blood Elf Retribution Paladin - Tarren Mill (EU)
    Mediocre - 70 Undead Discipline Priest - Tarren Mill (EU)

  • PrecusorPrecusor Member UncommonPosts: 3,589
    Am sick of games with elves in them.. so my vote goes to SCI-FI
  • LignerLigner Member Posts: 59
    Good question mate. Even though I was mainly playing Fantasy in past I voted for Sci-Fi as this genre is still free for exploring.



    Ligner

    image
    _________________________________
    Played:
    AC, AC2, UO, AO, EQ, EQ2, Shadowbane, DAoC, Horisons, SWG, EVE, L2, GW, WoW, DDO, LotRO
    Beta tested:
    AC, AC2, EQ2, SWG, Horisons, WoW, Archlord, LotRO, Espado Granada, Vanguard
    Currently playing: AoC

  • twiztid19twiztid19 Member Posts: 44

    Yes, Sci-fi can be unlimited, but fantasy can only go so far unless new races/story lines are created which take just as much work as the sci-fi games. And it seems, alot of sci-fi nerds go for the sci-fi games. If you are looking for a good sci-fi game, Id suggest Eve-online, Project entropia, and Anarch Online. All games you can check out :P. Of the three Eve-online is the best.

  • rock_harryrock_harry Member Posts: 183
    what about a mix of both and why not hehe have a space sim were u go to planits and kill thing with magic and wepons or guns what evey you like
  • SelffisherSelffisher Member Posts: 14
    I don't care about the genre, but about the other things in the game. But I must say that sometimes I'm more into one genre than another.

    image

  • MordacaiMordacai Member Posts: 309

    Personally, my preference is sci-fi and only that. I have played fantasy I just can't get into them as much as I do space and sci-fi which have held my interests for much longer. That's not to say I didn't play d&d on a table top in the good ole days or ever read tolkien, I have done all of it. I just prefer and have a passion for sci-fi. I'm a huge starwars nut and still play swg even after being nge'd.

    SWG actually led me to my current project and if you are looking for sci-fi and new outside of the box thinking then take a look at the hard core game listed on my sig. That's what I'm working on. The thing is, like someone mentioned earlier certain sci-fi has been done to death just like fantasy's elves has. I am on the other hand creating (along with the rest of the team) a whole new universe, new species, lore, civilizations and a game. This is that difference between hardcore and softcore sci-fi, a huge difference.

     

    Anyway since you are on the look out for new sci-fi, we're still in development but there are some recent in-game video footage from our showing at the GDC this month.

    www.forceofarms.com

    http://www.forceofarms.com/index.php

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627
     Definately sci-fi!  Love sci-fi stuff.  To bad SOE had to screw up SWG, I'd still be playing it.  I'm hoping someone comes along with a sci-fi game based loosely on the show Firefly.  Have character development like AC(very open ended - no specific classes - your skills define your class).    Have to have great player character graphics as well and lots of clothing options and character customization options right from the start.   Firefly would make an excellent MMORPG in my opinion.  
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