This post can be boiled down to one line: "Waaaaaaahh!" Quit without all the ceremony. Nobody cares.
It's funny because you have half of the Vanbois snottily telling people, "It's your fault for not researching the game on the Web and finding out if it was for you or not, so stop complaining about the game not working on your comp., etc. etc." and the other half saying, "Stop posting these indulgent good bye posts, no one cares."
Well, which is it? If it were not for these good-bye posts and player reviews, how are prospective purchasers going to do any research on the game?
I think its a good thing that people post why they are leaving a game. Since VG doesnt have forums this is as good a place as any to post an I quit post. If I was Brad I would want to know why people are leaving. Its better than not knowing.
You guys who cry and whine that it didn;t deliver, what the hell were you thinking when the devs said the game was released early and it a beta stage? That they were just joking so you through them 50 bucks for this? You guys are as much of the problem as they are for releasing it early. You people make future games think it is okay to be released early because 150k people went and bought it outright in the first month. If you like it play it, if not move on and let it go.
I could be wrong, but didn't they say it was released early AFTER it was released? And wasn't it Brad who said so? Sorta. Things pretty much carried out like this...
First the pre-order boxes were announced around the end of October or beginning of November. EBGames updated their release date for Vanguard to January 30th. Everyone began speculating that was when it was releasing, and of course most people dispelled that saying EBGames was just guessing. Sigil didn't confirm it.
Beta 4 began, ended after a month if that. Brad starts talking about how they were releasing soon due to financial realities and all that. All of these comments still under the protection of NDA on the beta forums.
Then comes Beta 5, there's still Brad saying they were releasing early so on and so on.
Point is, he kinda did bring it up, but he also said "Vanguard is good enough for release." Ever since then he's been changing his tune about that "good enough" part.
But he did admit they were releasing early even during open beta and after the NDA was lifted. There was still a couple of month period though that people were pre-ordering without any knowledge of the game being released in the state that it was in.
This post can be boiled down to one line: "Waaaaaaahh!" Quit without all the ceremony. Nobody cares.
Wrong!
Brad cares. Sigil cares. SOE cares. Just because YOU care and I care doesn't mean squat.
Face facts, people are quitting this game in far greater numbers than they are joining it. This game will be dead in two months at the rate it is NOT going.
You guys who cry and whine that it didn;t deliver, what the hell were you thinking when the devs said the game was released early and it a beta stage? That they were just joking so you through them 50 bucks for this? You guys are as much of the problem as they are for releasing it early. You people make future games think it is okay to be released early because 150k people went and bought it outright in the first month. If you like it play it, if not move on and let it go.
You're preaching to a very small audience, White. Everything you say is true; certainly a lot of people knew they were buying an unfinished game.
However, getting into a new game needn't be anymore difficult than seeing an advertisement for the game, picking up the box, and buying it.
Of the 150,000 'registered' users, how many of them do you think read fohguild.org, silkyvenom or whatever other mundane hidden medium those warning messages were transmitted through?
Even if Brad was so open as to send out press releases to big gaming sites like GameSpot, IGN, print magazines and whatever else, that's still a small bunch of people who would've been clued in about their purchase. So you really can't blame anyone who complains for not having known better. Unless it was printed on the back of the box, there was no guarantee way of knowing.
We're the ones that are unusual in knowing Sigil's corporate biography, the history of Brad McQuaid and his buddies, SOE's track record, and every other mundane thing we post about here. For the regular consumers though, it isn't unreasonable at all for their first impression of Vanguard to come from a box on a shelf. Excellent point and post Sepher. You have used points constructively to back up your reasoning and i personally think you have hit the nail on the head. I respect anybody whom posts thoughtfully like this and backs up the points they are making with good reasoning.
There lack of official Web Sites is also questionable and doesnt help Sigil's case against unknowing retail buyers one bit.
And that REALLY does throw into question why doest the game have official online forums and website structure. Out of the thirty million dollor budget it recieved, web hosting for a forum or two is a very very small amount of cost and gives the games community a solid backbone and communications structure.
Most MMORPG games if im not mistaken have them and it is hurting vanguard more than helping its cause i think by the lack of them.
And that REALLY does throw into question why doest the game have official online forums and website structure. Out of the thirty million dollor budget it recieved, web hosting for a forum or two is a very very small amount of cost and gives the games community a solid backbone and communications structure.
They don't have official forums to put a lid on the bad press at launch.
They shut the forums down just before launch.
The beta forums were overwhelmed with negative posts about the early release when it was announced.
Vanboys and dev's just made those posters keep quiet by deleting and changing topic every time.
You guys who cry and whine that it didn;t deliver, what the hell were you thinking when the devs said the game was released early and it a beta stage? That they were just joking so you through them 50 bucks for this? You guys are as much of the problem as they are for releasing it early. You people make future games think it is okay to be released early because 150k people went and bought it outright in the first month. If you like it play it, if not move on and let it go.
You're preaching to a very small audience, White. Everything you say is true; certainly a lot of people knew they were buying an unfinished game.
However, getting into a new game needn't be anymore difficult than seeing an advertisement for the game, picking up the box, and buying it.
Of the 150,000 'registered' users, how many of them do you think read fohguild.org, silkyvenom or whatever other mundane hidden medium those warning messages were transmitted through?
Even if Brad was so open as to send out press releases to big gaming sites like GameSpot, IGN, print magazines and whatever else, that's still a small bunch of people who would've been clued in about their purchase. So you really can't blame anyone who complains for not having known better. Unless it was printed on the back of the box, there was no guarantee way of knowing.
We're the ones that are unusual in knowing Sigil's corporate biography, the history of Brad McQuaid and his buddies, SOE's track record, and every other mundane thing we post about here. For the regular consumers though, it isn't unreasonable at all for their first impression of Vanguard to come from a box on a shelf.Excellent point and post Sepher. You have used points constructively to back up your reasoning and i personally think you have hit the nail on the head. I respect anybody whom posts thoughtfully like this and backs up the points they are making with good reasoning.
There lack of official Web Sites is also questionable and doesnt help Sigil's case against unknowing retail buyers one bit.
And that REALLY does throw into question why doest the game have official online forums and website structure. Out of the thirty million dollor budget it recieved, web hosting for a forum or two is a very very small amount of cost and gives the games community a solid backbone and communications structure.
Most MMORPG games if im not mistaken have them and it is hurting vanguard more than helping its cause i think by the lack of them.
Best Regards
Mag
Sigil stole people's money. I told everyone the game would suck beyond belief but some listened to the rabid idiot Vanbois who could be served a steaming pile of shit and would have proclaimed it a banquet because it came form Brad. The guy is utterly the worst game designer ever. All he ever managed to do was launch EQ1 in a world devoid of competition in 3d.
Brad had no clue:
-Releasing a game in beta form would bomb.
-Teaming with SOE would lose half his players before launch!
-Allowing his idiot Vanbois to bash WoW players would lose a huge potential player base.
-Launching with a new WoW expansion was dumb, he should have known before launch, now he admits it was a mistake.
Here is another news flash Brad-you will never EVER break 175k players, dream on of 500k, that just makes me ROFL in RL.
I agree with him as well it just makes me wonder though. Why is everyone so quick to bash it after the fact but not quick to look up a thing or two. If you honestly didn't know, or you had to have a parent buy the game for you then the post was not directed at you because 9 times out of 10 the parent would not want to go home and research the game and then drive back out to the store to get it. The posters I was referring to are the ones who have 93857 posts here and elite status or xfire profile in their signature showing that they have been playing games for 29420 hours (yes these numbers are an exaggeration to show a point).If you are that big of an MMO nut then chances are you read all about WoW and EQ and other games before you bought them.
It is not the general community that frustrates me, it is the people who spend countless hours on the internet reading about games or spending countless hours on this site but never took the time to research this game and then get mad that it isn't what they expected. You should not believe fanboy hype because this hype comes with every game.
If the publishers for Age of Conan come out a month before the game and announce that they have to put the game out early because of financial reasons, I would not personally buy that product.
It is just annoying to see 10+ topics about the game being buggy and unpolished. It could easily stay in one or two topics. Instead of people coming to this site and being able to ask a question and have it answered, something different goes on. I could make a topic asking with my comp setup, what could I do to get better performance or what cards do you recommend. Instead of getting my answer by the time I wake up, I will look and see my topic is now 6 pages long and nobody answered me and the entire topic has become Vanguard sucks, or Vanguard is great talk. Then I would have wasted my time going through 5 pages of garbage and reading it in hopes my question was answered.
I agree with the two posters who rebuttled what I said earlier by the way. We as a gaming community though need to come together and not buy games that are released early and I guess it is partly my fault for not announcing so boldly on all the forums I attend that the game is being released in a beta stage and it would have saved a lot of people money and frustration. This will not be the last MMO released way too early though because Vanguard just proved you can sell a quick 150k copies of a game just through hype.
On the official forum thing, WAR does not have an official forum either because they think from past games that basically had official forums like WoW, SWG among others, that these forums bring too much negativity and that it would do more harm than good for their game.
I agree with alot you have had to say White in what i thought was a real genuine post on your behalf and you should be able to post for help on your intended game that you play through personal choice here without seeing an honest post sabotaged.
If i can help in any way (I dont play Vanguard any more) then please let me know or PM me about rigs and specs and stuff ill be glad to answer any questions you have. I have done quite alot of intensive tweaking and investigating of the Vanguard App. Memory Leaks, VGClient.ini tweaks for specific graphics card models and the like...only if you need it of course. ;-)
However what your point also displays i feel is the a crucual point as too why it is a very good thing for ALL games to have official sites and forums and communications channels for all types of thier respective players. Because that way players genuinely seeking assistance and aid with game issues and game mechanics can post in a somewhat friendly environment away for better or worse in the interest of the player from the mainstay of opinions that will generally populate neutral ground, sites very much like MMORPG.com.
I also feel that if a games developer is somewhat tepid about negativity about a product they are releasing then they need to think problematically and creatively about how to tackle players gaming issues and points of view as opposed to simply choosing not to have official means of communications and online space for issues to be voiced and concerns to be calmed.
If a developer is considering launching a product on the strength of its own merits then they should surely have no nevermind as to supporting the product/application with a fully qualified set of Web Channels and Forums for communication. If they decide not too due to fear of negativity and critiscm (Constructive or otherwise) against their product then the gamer and potential customer at this point should be asking themselves some questions as to whether they feel they should buy the product in the first place if reasons for not providing sites, space and most importantly forums do not appear all that honest.
I am man enough to admit you have changed my views and mine were wrong. I think a lot of you on the forum should act just like I am right now and realise when you are wrong and that it is okay and you can move on. Great post Mag, and it is one of the reasons I am not all that interested in WAR to begin with.
Again, some of you need to take a serious lesson and learn that nobody is ever always right and it is okay to admit you are wrong when somebody has proven a point.
Comments
It's funny because you have half of the Vanbois snottily telling people, "It's your fault for not researching the game on the Web and finding out if it was for you or not, so stop complaining about the game not working on your comp., etc. etc." and the other half saying, "Stop posting these indulgent good bye posts, no one cares."
Well, which is it? If it were not for these good-bye posts and player reviews, how are prospective purchasers going to do any research on the game?
First the pre-order boxes were announced around the end of October or beginning of November. EBGames updated their release date for Vanguard to January 30th. Everyone began speculating that was when it was releasing, and of course most people dispelled that saying EBGames was just guessing. Sigil didn't confirm it.
Beta 4 began, ended after a month if that. Brad starts talking about how they were releasing soon due to financial realities and all that. All of these comments still under the protection of NDA on the beta forums.
Then comes Beta 5, there's still Brad saying they were releasing early so on and so on.
Point is, he kinda did bring it up, but he also said "Vanguard is good enough for release." Ever since then he's been changing his tune about that "good enough" part.
But he did admit they were releasing early even during open beta and after the NDA was lifted. There was still a couple of month period though that people were pre-ordering without any knowledge of the game being released in the state that it was in.
Brad cares. Sigil cares. SOE cares. Just because YOU care and I care doesn't mean squat.
Face facts, people are quitting this game in far greater numbers than they are joining it. This game will be dead in two months at the rate it is NOT going.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
However, getting into a new game needn't be anymore difficult than seeing an advertisement for the game, picking up the box, and buying it.
Of the 150,000 'registered' users, how many of them do you think read fohguild.org, silkyvenom or whatever other mundane hidden medium those warning messages were transmitted through?
Even if Brad was so open as to send out press releases to big gaming sites like GameSpot, IGN, print magazines and whatever else, that's still a small bunch of people who would've been clued in about their purchase. So you really can't blame anyone who complains for not having known better. Unless it was printed on the back of the box, there was no guarantee way of knowing.
We're the ones that are unusual in knowing Sigil's corporate biography, the history of Brad McQuaid and his buddies, SOE's track record, and every other mundane thing we post about here. For the regular consumers though, it isn't unreasonable at all for their first impression of Vanguard to come from a box on a shelf. Excellent point and post Sepher. You have used points constructively to back up your reasoning and i personally think you have hit the nail on the head. I respect anybody whom posts thoughtfully like this and backs up the points they are making with good reasoning.
There lack of official Web Sites is also questionable and doesnt help Sigil's case against unknowing retail buyers one bit.
And that REALLY does throw into question why doest the game have official online forums and website structure. Out of the thirty million dollor budget it recieved, web hosting for a forum or two is a very very small amount of cost and gives the games community a solid backbone and communications structure.
Most MMORPG games if im not mistaken have them and it is hurting vanguard more than helping its cause i think by the lack of them.
Best Regards
Mag
They don't have official forums to put a lid on the bad press at launch.
They shut the forums down just before launch.
The beta forums were overwhelmed with negative posts about the early release when it was announced.
Vanboys and dev's just made those posters keep quiet by deleting and changing topic every time.
However, getting into a new game needn't be anymore difficult than seeing an advertisement for the game, picking up the box, and buying it.
Of the 150,000 'registered' users, how many of them do you think read fohguild.org, silkyvenom or whatever other mundane hidden medium those warning messages were transmitted through?
Even if Brad was so open as to send out press releases to big gaming sites like GameSpot, IGN, print magazines and whatever else, that's still a small bunch of people who would've been clued in about their purchase. So you really can't blame anyone who complains for not having known better. Unless it was printed on the back of the box, there was no guarantee way of knowing.
We're the ones that are unusual in knowing Sigil's corporate biography, the history of Brad McQuaid and his buddies, SOE's track record, and every other mundane thing we post about here. For the regular consumers though, it isn't unreasonable at all for their first impression of Vanguard to come from a box on a shelf.Excellent point and post Sepher. You have used points constructively to back up your reasoning and i personally think you have hit the nail on the head. I respect anybody whom posts thoughtfully like this and backs up the points they are making with good reasoning.
There lack of official Web Sites is also questionable and doesnt help Sigil's case against unknowing retail buyers one bit.
And that REALLY does throw into question why doest the game have official online forums and website structure. Out of the thirty million dollor budget it recieved, web hosting for a forum or two is a very very small amount of cost and gives the games community a solid backbone and communications structure.
Most MMORPG games if im not mistaken have them and it is hurting vanguard more than helping its cause i think by the lack of them.
Best Regards
Mag
Sigil stole people's money. I told everyone the game would suck beyond belief but some listened to the rabid idiot Vanbois who could be served a steaming pile of shit and would have proclaimed it a banquet because it came form Brad. The guy is utterly the worst game designer ever. All he ever managed to do was launch EQ1 in a world devoid of competition in 3d.
Brad had no clue:
-Releasing a game in beta form would bomb.
-Teaming with SOE would lose half his players before launch!
-Allowing his idiot Vanbois to bash WoW players would lose a huge potential player base.
-Launching with a new WoW expansion was dumb, he should have known before launch, now he admits it was a mistake.
Here is another news flash Brad-you will never EVER break 175k players, dream on of 500k, that just makes me ROFL in RL.
I agree with him as well it just makes me wonder though. Why is everyone so quick to bash it after the fact but not quick to look up a thing or two. If you honestly didn't know, or you had to have a parent buy the game for you then the post was not directed at you because 9 times out of 10 the parent would not want to go home and research the game and then drive back out to the store to get it. The posters I was referring to are the ones who have 93857 posts here and elite status or xfire profile in their signature showing that they have been playing games for 29420 hours (yes these numbers are an exaggeration to show a point).If you are that big of an MMO nut then chances are you read all about WoW and EQ and other games before you bought them.
It is not the general community that frustrates me, it is the people who spend countless hours on the internet reading about games or spending countless hours on this site but never took the time to research this game and then get mad that it isn't what they expected. You should not believe fanboy hype because this hype comes with every game.
If the publishers for Age of Conan come out a month before the game and announce that they have to put the game out early because of financial reasons, I would not personally buy that product.
It is just annoying to see 10+ topics about the game being buggy and unpolished. It could easily stay in one or two topics. Instead of people coming to this site and being able to ask a question and have it answered, something different goes on. I could make a topic asking with my comp setup, what could I do to get better performance or what cards do you recommend. Instead of getting my answer by the time I wake up, I will look and see my topic is now 6 pages long and nobody answered me and the entire topic has become Vanguard sucks, or Vanguard is great talk. Then I would have wasted my time going through 5 pages of garbage and reading it in hopes my question was answered.
I agree with the two posters who rebuttled what I said earlier by the way. We as a gaming community though need to come together and not buy games that are released early and I guess it is partly my fault for not announcing so boldly on all the forums I attend that the game is being released in a beta stage and it would have saved a lot of people money and frustration. This will not be the last MMO released way too early though because Vanguard just proved you can sell a quick 150k copies of a game just through hype.
On the official forum thing, WAR does not have an official forum either because they think from past games that basically had official forums like WoW, SWG among others, that these forums bring too much negativity and that it would do more harm than good for their game.
I agree with alot you have had to say White in what i thought was a real genuine post on your behalf and you should be able to post for help on your intended game that you play through personal choice here without seeing an honest post sabotaged.
If i can help in any way (I dont play Vanguard any more) then please let me know or PM me about rigs and specs and stuff ill be glad to answer any questions you have. I have done quite alot of intensive tweaking and investigating of the Vanguard App. Memory Leaks, VGClient.ini tweaks for specific graphics card models and the like...only if you need it of course. ;-)
However what your point also displays i feel is the a crucual point as too why it is a very good thing for ALL games to have official sites and forums and communications channels for all types of thier respective players. Because that way players genuinely seeking assistance and aid with game issues and game mechanics can post in a somewhat friendly environment away for better or worse in the interest of the player from the mainstay of opinions that will generally populate neutral ground, sites very much like MMORPG.com.
I also feel that if a games developer is somewhat tepid about negativity about a product they are releasing then they need to think problematically and creatively about how to tackle players gaming issues and points of view as opposed to simply choosing not to have official means of communications and online space for issues to be voiced and concerns to be calmed.
If a developer is considering launching a product on the strength of its own merits then they should surely have no nevermind as to supporting the product/application with a fully qualified set of Web Channels and Forums for communication. If they decide not too due to fear of negativity and critiscm (Constructive or otherwise) against their product then the gamer and potential customer at this point should be asking themselves some questions as to whether they feel they should buy the product in the first place if reasons for not providing sites, space and most importantly forums do not appear all that honest.
Best Regards
Mag
I am man enough to admit you have changed my views and mine were wrong. I think a lot of you on the forum should act just like I am right now and realise when you are wrong and that it is okay and you can move on. Great post Mag, and it is one of the reasons I am not all that interested in WAR to begin with.
Again, some of you need to take a serious lesson and learn that nobody is ever always right and it is okay to admit you are wrong when somebody has proven a point.
Right or wrong White, i value your opinion as a gamer. And its always good to see both sides of an debate.
Best Regards
Mag