Why you say ? Because every so often a new sucker comes along buys Vancrap logs in, tries it, gets a major case of buyers remorse - you see when you spend $50 of your own money it becomes personal and you suddenly feel motivated to let others know since that is YOUR ONLY RECOURSE.
You can stop playing or cancel subscription but that does not change the fact you feel screwed for buying something that simply isnt all you thought you paid for.
Lol I usually go against the current topic because I like to rebutt..But man... I agree with you guys completely Vanguard was ruined when it was announced that it's company went in bed with "The Star Wars Killers" (you know who i mean) On SWG lol..(that game is dead) i logged in for free trial..no players lol..i'm lookin around everywhere..no1 SOE ruins w/e game it gets its hands on...now it got hold of Vanguard...It would be a nice game about now..but soon it's gunna go blank...no players..no one I was looking forward to it, but the minute I heard that SOE is now the developer, I erased it from my mind... Ok for some reason I dont think you ever played..because of your bias for SOE...
I feel sorry for the people who pre-paid =( Fun Fact: No store in Toronto that received copies of Vanguard sold a single copy
This place called Toronto must be a small place indeed or you have no job and some kind of weird obsession to go to every freaking store just to find out that vanguard didnt sell anywhere. So im wondering how can this be a fact? Do you have inside information from every freaking store that could possibly sell Vanguard in a city of over 4 million people? You must be a very important person.
Again...and i have said it often...its lies like that on these boards that cause a lot of the confusion. How are you to believe a person who posts a review on these boards? I suggest the people honestly interested in the game find another one.
Quick...everyone jump on the "Bash SOE" bandwagon. I agree..some people get on these forums just to bash SOE..never played a SOE game..or just played SWG and are bleeding out their eyes cause they cant get revenge or some childish thing like that.
This is just getting old. Yes, SOE PUBLISHES Vanguard. Sigil develops it. There is a difference. First, I am not a SOE fan. In fact I am an SWG Vet. I have no love for them. However, lay blame where it is due at least in the rants you spew onto this forum. SWG vet as well..hated what happen to the game....LUCAS ARTS..whatever...whoever...the game was messed up...MOVE ON. I agree again.
Yes, SOE screwed SWG...after 2 strong years. All the bugs, all the patchs, and all the crap people still loved the game, and obviously, still do. (Yes, I am one of the people who really miss pre-CU SWG) Ive recently checked out SWG...and yes people still play..seen people there...been on SWG forums...people still talk about it..Its not like Dark & Light or Horizons....its still got legs...one is broken..and the other has a limp but there are still people playing...and a good number.
Now...EQ2. started horrible. SOE changed a bunch of things, revamped the game, and now...a much better game that actually has people playing it and enjoying it. I agree again...Play this game as well...people still playing..people still there...large numbers of guilds and average populations. It has fans...and you really cant take that way...its a stable game that is worth your time...Not a fanboy of the game but its good...no reason to bash it...I see no difference when comparing it to WOW. So..other then SWG, what has SOE killed? Matrix? Hardly, that game was dead when they bought it. Planetside? Never played it but I have heard it was alright. EQ1? nope. Hell, even EQOA for the PS2 did well for itself. I agree again...Matrix was saved and their community thanked SOE for it...SOE maintains the Matrix and keeps it live...otherwise it would have gone the way of Horizons and Dark & Light. PLanetside i play to blow off steam and just shoot things...its a great game for what it is...do people play it?...lots of the weekends...Its not a dead game. EQ1 still has a good population and people still play it...Ive seen people there myself. A guild i use to play with still holds guild events and is about 60 strong..and there are more guilds on EQ1 still working.
I guess my point is at least point blame where it should be. I play Vanguard. I enjoy Vanguard. However I will freely admit, like most that play it even though all the trolls wont admit it, there are alot of bugs. But I give Sigil credit with the fact they are trying to better the game. I agree again...there are bugs I run across in Vanguard...most are minor...some bother me like the memory leak or the zoning...but I play a lot of games and I know there are bugs in every game...even Ultima online now which has been out for years....DAOC still has bugs that need to be worked out..
I know how to make my way around them until the day the devs can get a handle on it so it can be fixed...
At least SOE knows how to manage patch downloads and billing( this is from my experience, i have seen the "OMG SOE is still charging me after I cancelled!!!" threads. I have cancelled several times with SOE and have never had a problem.
Man I agree again...I have canceled my SWG accounts...bought back my EQ1 accounts...canceled that...then got the station pass...only to find out that a lot of my characters from the old games are still there...SOE even refunded my money for that SWG expansion ... that they "cheated" us on so to speak. No problems at all.
Maybe these people should learn to read through everything and make sure they follow all the CORRECT steps for doing something instead of just assuming the company is trying to screw them. You want this, go subscribe to Dark and Light and then talk to me about billing issues. I still get e-mails from those people and I never even logged into their game ). Unlike some other MMO's who's downloader sucks so bad you may or may not get the recent patch unless you go to a mirror site to get what blizzard just released. Whoops...the name just slipped out... I have played alot of MMO's and honestly I have had less problems with games published by SOE then any other. And I'll be sitting back giggling to myself when all the "next big game"s get tanked in these forums as well. Cause the only thing that flows freely on this site is hate towards whatever game the most recent batch of trolls decides they hate. Played LOTR, got bored. Have watched AoC...doesnt look earthshattering to me but I may give it a shot. Darkfall looks interesting. Tabula Rosa looks like it could be very interesting and, at least theres no dwarves and elves. Overall SOE has a bang for its buck...with the Station pass...and I have heard more games coming down the tree including DC online so it might be worth it...I am angry at the extra $4 or $5 added to the station pass fee and that may backfire on them but we shall see what happens...right now i am sticking in there.
I did LOTRO and while a decent game dose not add anything extra to the "fantasy format" except the LOTR name. So far I dont see anything interesting in AOC...but I am watching. DARKFALL? might disagree with you on that one. Tabula Rasa has a chance and I may be interested...I am interested in Huxley as well...looking closely at that one. Warhammer online? nope. Stargate worlds and Star Trek online...too far down the road to tell anything at this point.
I often wonder how much the tune would change for some people if their "next big game" lost it's publisher and SOE picked it up.
Gods and heroes on the SOE line? perhaps, I have heard rumors...DC online is a shoe in...Rumors of Star Trek online as well. I think people better get use to it as SOE is turning its dark eyes to the Publishing and server hosting side of the bizz. I think according to the information that I have read...they are done with the "game creation" aspect after DC online. At any rate, let me say again, I have no love for SOE and Vanguard is indeed bugged but jesus, at least try to follow topic instead of just jumping in and bashing SOE just for the sake of bashing them. Personally I agree with SOE forcing Sigil to release Vanguard, finished or not, after all...they had been working on it for 4+ years. Sh*t or get off the pot, as the saying goes.
I know...when is production TOO long...6 years? By then the game would have been behind the curve...some of the interviews i read made me believe that SOE could handle the updates and the fixes need at live. I do dont coding or know the ins and outs of that type of bizz ... (An im sure 99% of the people on these boards only pretend they know everything) ...but im sure they can come out on top in the long run.
erm... Schluups you er.... Could perhaps not insult people by calling them fools and 5 year olds before telling them "Don't take it personaly"..... I'm not even going to reply anymore, try reading the posts and looking at what has been written and quoted before blindly insulting and flaming people? Doubt you could do that to be honest, but it's up to you. Though then again, if this thread shows the hint of sanity about it and allows people to post their own opinions without being flamed for it I might just decide to post anyway.
I have read what has been quoted and it just shows someone posturing while not having read the billion posts where Brad describes what he calls third gen. See? yes I can do it. Btw fanboy is an insult too.
Opinion about Vanguard? When half the posts contain SOE hatred messages? When soo much posts attributes to brad stuff he didn't say? And so on and so on etc etc etc? Most of thoses aren't opinion, just pure hate crap.
I don't recall anyone stating VG was going to be next gen....
That's because you are a fanboi who hides from inconvenient facts. From among the million places Brad boasted of this, try Sigil's website:
Humm...OK...So what...SO what that he had these grand ideas...whatever they H*ll they were...I am glad that this fellow had high ideals and expectations for his company...he hoped to move the bar on what he thought would change the bizz model he was in....whatever that is.
"Currently, Brad is involved with Sigil's next generation massively multiplayer online RPG to be co-published by Sony Online Entertainment: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes."
Ok...sounds good...whatever that means? Next generation? sounds great. Will it fly? Higher graphics? real time AI? 3-D? Or is he just talking about the "next batch of MMOs"? Really cant tell...Its got houses and flying mounts...more then some previous MMO models had...one could improve on that...so It could mean anything.
Can anyone help me out on the meaning of "Next Generation?" Wikipedia anyone?
"In January of 2002, Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler formed Sigil Games Online, Inc., a new company dedicated to the development of next generation of massively multiplayer games."
Humm...bad wording there in that....must mean..."...development of THE next generation of massively multiplayer games." Sounds right now dosn't it?
"While it's too early to reveal some of the truly thirdgeneration features in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, suffice it to say that Brad feels the industry has only scratched the surface in terms of where MMOGs can and will head ..."
OK too early...what does that mean?...there is that word again...third generation...is that newer then the second generation..and what is that? Could EQ2 be second generation? Is DAOC first generation? If my guess is correct I do see some differences...
OK...this begs a question...is LOTRO "third generation?" cause if it is...it brings nothing new to the medium. Does vanguards houses, diplomacy system, flying mounts and other little minor systems seperated it from the pack and make it this so called "third generation?"
And why do you care what its called....pick a game that fits your needs..."I happen to like the housing and mount aspect as NO other game provides that right now."...and go with it....I am sure that is what will make it "third generation" to you.
I agree with the OP. There is no excuse for releasing an unfinished game. Put simply the end user is getting ripped off. I don't agree with arguments such as MMOs "aren't supposed to be finished". This is just an excuse encouraging companies to release unfinished products. Times have changed, and consumers want high quality products these days. Games that are full of bugs and not complete are likely to fail because people these days are less likely to put up with these short comings. World of Warcraft has been a huge success because it is highly polished. It is a global brand because it is so well designed and appealing to all. My mistake with Vanguard was believeing all the hype, only to be disappointed. I will learn from this mistake by only buying games after playing demos!
I'm fed up with companies releasing half assed games under one pretext or another, and then expecting the gaming community to foot the bill while they carry on with sitting things right.
Vanguard , while not the only, is the latest in this trend. A good game, yes, great, no. No new ground was broken here. it's the same old gaming system that doesn't allow players to create a bad char. just add a few points every lv. buy your new spell every 2 lvs. nothing new.
body runs, nothing new, ac had this in the late 90's. But all in all not a bad game just not the game that was hyped up at release.
But no matter how good this game is or isn't we should not have to pay to play an unfinished product. This is the only area that companies can get away with this in. Think about what you spend money on from week to week. would you accept this type of workmanship in any of your other purchases ? So why do we as a gaming community accept this and even defend this type action from the sigils, the soe's and others?
Bottom line, the buck stops here. my 15 bucks is going back in my pocket until someone releases a game worth my money each month
That i enjoy.
To simply answer your dilema and everyone else who has issues with vg is this, "JUST DON"T PAY TO PLAY" sigil is not forcing you to play their game. There is a little button on your subcription page that says "Cancel Subscription"
I don't recall anyone stating VG was going to be next gen....
That's because you are a fanboi who hides from inconvenient facts. From among the million places Brad boasted of this, try Sigil's website:
Humm...OK...So what...SO what that he had these grand ideas...whatever they H*ll they were...I am glad that this fellow had high ideals and expectations for his company...he hoped to move the bar on what he thought would change the bizz model he was in....whatever that is.
"Currently, Brad is involved with Sigil's next generation massively multiplayer online RPG to be co-published by Sony Online Entertainment: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes."
Ok...sounds good...whatever that means? Next generation? sounds great. Will it fly? Higher graphics? real time AI? 3-D? Or is he just talking about the "next batch of MMOs"? Really cant tell...Its got houses and flying mounts...more then some previous MMO models had...one could improve on that...so It could mean anything.
Can anyone help me out on the meaning of "Next Generation?" Wikipedia anyone?
"In January of 2002, Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler formed Sigil Games Online, Inc., a new company dedicated to the development of next generation of massively multiplayer games."
Humm...bad wording there in that....must mean..."...development of THE next generation of massively multiplayer games." Sounds right now dosn't it?
"While it's too early to reveal some of the truly thirdgeneration features in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, suffice it to say that Brad feels the industry has only scratched the surface in terms of where MMOGs can and will head ..."
OK too early...what does that mean?...there is that word again...third generation...is that newer then the second generation..and what is that? Could EQ2 be second generation? Is DAOC first generation? If my guess is correct I do see some differences...
OK...this begs a question...is LOTRO "third generation?" cause if it is...it brings nothing new to the medium. Does vanguards houses, diplomacy system, flying mounts and other little minor systems seperated it from the pack and make it this so called "third generation?"
And why do you care what its called....pick a game that fits your needs..."I happen to like the housing and mount aspect as NO other game provides that right now."...and go with it....I am sure that is what will make it "third generation" to you.
LOTRO is definately not a next-gen game.
I hate to break it to you but VG offers NOTHING NEW and has done NOTHING TO SEPERATE IT FROM THE PACK.
Games already had flying mounts and housing.
Minor differences do not make next-gen games either, hence why VG and LOTRO are not next-gen and will most likely be outclassed by future mmos. VG is obviously more prone to this.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
To simply answer your dilema and everyone else who has issues with vg is this, "JUST DON"T PAY TO PLAY" sigil is not forcing you to play their game. There is a little button on your subcription page that says "Cancel Subscription"
Don't be a moron..Even though I agree with you partly...Yes there's a "cancel subscription" button...lol...But it's unfair when we have all these half-assed games flooding the market and game lists when no one is playing them (ex. SWG)...Vanguard is gunna die too, all the SoE games are...Well, the ones where SoE has the developing majority. I know VG sucks...I know it's gunna die...I know you don't have to pay if you don't want to..But it's unfair when we have a so-so game standing on the market and the developers would rather charge monster prices for it and get no players than lower the price to something appropriate for that game and let ppl play
If there is one thing that Vanguard proves it is that cost alone does not make a great game; so when I get told that I should feel priviliged to pay so much an hour because the game cost so much it gives me this bad feeling - sorry doesn't cut it. What it suggests is mis-management of the highest order - something hinted at in the NYTimes review and since.
The game was not finished. Sigil released regardless and are reaping the rewards of that decision. No option we are told - so we are saying that SoE would have turned down an offer to buy Vanguard outright in return for money to finish the game prior to release? If so that is a bad condemnation of the game - and it may be true, SoE may be looking to pick the game up cheaply. On the other hand - if it was an option - then that just means its a case of get the subscribers to fund beta. P.S. Monthly sub going up to $65 a month but its only a Starbucks a day so feel good - bah
It isn't really worth posting, better games are a coming.
Yup, a lot of debugging that should be completed before release was not. MS had apparently lost patience with delays, and SOE was willing to put up some money for the publishing rights. Apparently SOE lost patience with delays, and Sigil had to launch before the game was ready.
So sure, the game should have been more polished, but given the "quality" of the program management, the choice in the end was launch unfinished or not at all. (And with the amount invested, monetarily, emotionally, and chronologically, there was no choice.) So the players' choice is much the same; play as it's debugged, or not at all. If on balance, you decide to play, there's not much point in telling others that the game's unfinished. Believe it or not, others have noticed it too.
I had a lot of problems with the game, but they were with the design choices and lack of fun... Much fairer grounds for criticism I believe.
Why you say ? Because every so often a new sucker comes along buys Vancrap logs in, tries it, gets a major case of buyers remorse - you see when you spend $50 of your own money it becomes personal and you suddenly feel motivated to let others know since that is YOUR ONLY RECOURSE.
You can stop playing or cancel subscription but that does not change the fact you feel screwed for buying something that simply isnt all you thought you paid for.
Then you should of waited until all the reviews came out before buying it.
Im starting to get the feeling that most people only come in here to stand up on there soap box and get attention.... I can make a list several pages long with games I bought that turned out to be duds.. From my early years of Atari 2600 to present.... I figure it was my fault for rushing out and buying it before doing any research...
And if $50 is going to break you, then you have no bussiness buying any games let alone a MMO which charges $15 a month on top of the $50 for the game..
And whats up with all these people going on and on about how all these great games (which have not even been released yet) are going to blow Vanguard away..... You would think they would at least wait until the game comes out before saying how great it is... I predict 80% of the people who are going around saying that LOTRO is the greatest MMO ever will be on the LOTRO Forums 2 days after launch complaining about how crappy it is...
Thanks for a rather flame free thread and a good discussion.
My purpose here is not to bash Vanguard or SOE ,they are but the latest . But to cause each of us who have shelled out our money for a product that was simply not up to speed to pause and think about why we are doing this. I chose VG since they were the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.
As long as we continue to send the message that it's ok to release games in an unfinished state. Then to stand up for said games, we are going to be screwed. Yes I enjoyed some parts of VG. but is the game worth 15 bucks a month as it now stands? it's not the money, it's simply I'm tired of gaming companies thinking they can talk the talk then they crawl along when it's time to walk the walk.
...... It's time for these companies to figure out they we gamers are not the gullible nerds they seem to think we are.
"Currently, Brad is involved with Sigil's next generation massively multiplayer online RPG to be co-published by Sony Online Entertainment: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes."
"In January of 2002, Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler formed Sigil Games Online, Inc., a new company dedicated to the development of next generation of massively multiplayer games."
"While it's too early to reveal some of the truly thirdgeneration features in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, suffice it to say that Brad feels the industry has only scratched the surface in terms of where MMOGs can and will head ..."
If you look up "pwned" in the dictionary, this post comes up. Srsly Thamoris... you should go sit in the corner for an hour as punishment.
Vanguard ( or any mmorpg for that matter ) costs the average gamer about 10-20 cents an hour to play over the course of a year. Less than a cup of coffee or a can of Coke. you're making a DIRECT comparison here --- you drink a can of coke or a cup of coffee every hour? How can one complain about playing a $30+ million production and yet only charge 10-20 cents an hour to play? um, i can play a variety of mindless grind (with other things added, like century online i believe) MMOs for free. 10 cents/hour - 150 hours = $15. 20 cents/hour = 75 hours. you playing a game or working a fulltime (10 cents) or parttime (20 cents) job? Where else can one find such value? make up your mind... are you talking quality or quantity? cuz with this statement you just switched from quantity to quality. unless, you're going on the premise that the person you're replying to values this game, which he/she doesn't. No mmorpg is EVER done..finished...optimized ect. Computer games in general always require some kind of patching to be done..some more..some less...but always some. k, without having read other posts of yours, this is the part where any sane person calmly attaches the "vanboi" tag to you. I'm getting my value and then some out of Vanguard. If you can't handle that then I suggest you stick to your Xbox for the next 5-10 years...by then computers should be much more standardized. why are you justifying a game, which the developers THEMSELVES state was released in a beta format, because they ran out of money, and they'd had beta tested at LEAST 3 more months? what the... I don't recall anyone stating VG was going to be next gen....in fact...I recall the emphasis was on the fact that Sigil cherry picked what they thought was best in other mmo's and developed these features in VG. That's not next gen...that's just smart. Next gen will likely be virtual reality or something simular... perhaps massive enhancements to NPC AI..Their isn't much else that can be done in mmorpg's with the hardware available to your average consumer these days. no way to program random generation of what's inside dungeons/instances eh? uh huh.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
God i hate when peoples (fanboys) always come up with the PRICE excuse. It's not because it's 000000.1 cent per milliseconds (you can divide 15$ per month by 1/00000th of a sec if you want), because it's cheaper then a cup of coffee, i don't give a ****. The point IS. They released a CRAPPY, UNFINISHED, BUGGY game and expect peoples to PAY for it.
It's not because something it's CHEAP that it has to SUCKS ! STOP always coming up with that excuse. Anyone can make up crap software, does that mean that they can sell it for cheap so that peoples won't have the right to complain, NO.
There will always be games released too early and buggy as all get out. VG is a good example of this.
And there will always be players willing to buy them no matter what state the game is in.
What is new is the level of "viral marketing" and damge control being done by those companies to try and save their reputations. A person really has to wonder if there is a Sigil employee ( or some employee from whatever game is being discussed ) behind many of the "fanboi" posts.
If i'm paying a monthly fee, i demand an unfinished product. If the game was finished, completed and never updated... then you pay the software and thats it.
Quick...everyone jump on the "Bash SOE" bandwagon. This is just getting old. Yes, SOE PUBLISHES Vanguard. Sigil develops it. There is a difference. First, I am not a SOE fan. In fact I am an SWG Vet. I have no love for them. However, lay blame where it is due at least in the rants you spew onto this forum. Yes, SOE screwed SWG...after 2 strong years. All the bugs, all the patchs, and all the crap people still loved the game, and obviously, still do. (Yes, I am one of the people who really miss pre-CU SWG) Now...EQ2. started horrible. SOE changed a bunch of things, revamped the game, and now...a much better game that actually has people playing it and enjoying it. So..other then SWG, what has SOE killed? Matrix? Hardly, that game was dead when they bought it. Planetside? Never played it but I have heard it was alright. EQ1? nope. Hell, even EQOA for the PS2 did well for itself. I guess my point is at least point blame where it should be. I play Vanguard. I enjoy Vanguard. However I will freely admit, like most that play it even though all the trolls wont admit it, there are alot of bugs. But I give Sigil credit with the fact they are trying to better the game. At least SOE knows how to manage patch downloads and billing( this is from my experience, i have seen the "OMG SOE is still charging me after I cancelled!!!" threads. I have cancelled several times with SOE and have never had a problem. Maybe these people should learn to read through everything and make sure they follow all the CORRECT steps for doing something instead of just assuming the company is trying to screw them. You want this, go subscribe to Dark and Light and then talk to me about billing issues. I still get e-mails from those people and I never even logged into their game ). Unlike some other MMO's who's downloader sucks so bad you may or may not get the recent patch unless you go to a mirror site to get what blizzard just released. Whoops...the name just slipped out... I have played alot of MMO's and honestly I have had less problems with games published by SOE then any other. And I'll be sitting back giggling to myself when all the "next big game"s get tanked in these forums as well. Cause the only thing that flows freely on this site is hate towards whatever game the most recent batch of trolls decides they hate. Played LOTR, got bored. Have watched AoC...doesnt look earthshattering to me but I may give it a shot. Darkfall looks interesting. Tabula Rosa looks like it could be very interesting and, at least theres no dwarves and elves. I often wonder how much the tune would change for some people if their "next big game" lost it's publisher and SOE picked it up. At any rate, let me say again, I have no love for SOE and Vanguard is indeed bugged but jesus, at least try to follow topic instead of just jumping in and bashing SOE just for the sake of bashing them. Personally I agree with SOE forcing Sigil to release Vanguard, finished or not, after all...they had been working on it for 4+ years. Sh*t or get off the pot, as the saying goes.
I agree. Guess the only thing SOE did wrong with SWG is to give the project to devs that sucks. From production till now...
Vanguard ( or any mmorpg for that matter ) costs the average gamer about 10-20 cents an hour to play over the course of a year. Less than a cup of coffee or a can of Coke. How can one complain about playing a $30+ million production and yet only charge 10-20 cents an hour to play? Where else can one find such value? No mmorpg is EVER done..finished...optimized ect. Computer games in general always require some kind of patching to be done..some more..some less...but always some. I'm getting my value and then some out of Vanguard. If you can't handle that then I suggest you stick to your Xbox for the next 5-10 years...by then computers should be much more standardized. I don't recall anyone stating VG was going to be next gen....in fact...I recall the emphasis was on the fact that Sigil cherry picked what they thought was best in other mmo's and developed these features in VG. That's not next gen...that's just smart. Next gen will likely be virtual reality or something simular... perhaps massive enhancements to NPC AI..Their isn't much else that can be done in mmorpg's with the hardware available to your average consumer these days.
QFT,
I'm sure people forget that their PC isn't really THAT GOOD ( I'm not talking running VG, I'm talking runnning the sort of game they have in MIND ). It's like going to the cinema and then complaining that the film was only shown on a 2D screen. Maybe, JUST maybe one day a PC will exist that satisfies your demand for something so special.
If i'm paying a monthly fee, i demand an unfinished product. If the game was finished, completed and never updated... then you pay the software and thats it.
Thanks for posting.
Most folks definition of finished is all content present and, you know, complete and functional as intended. That isn't to say new content can't be added or existing content changed. You're attempting to hijack the term finished and everyone's definition of it with final. There's a difference.
Why even give yourself the headache of believing some people actually want an unchanging MMO? We just want one finished at release. We definitely want one finished two months after release.
nice trash talkin, crap startin topic. do you like to be the person who likes to talk trash on the internet and start crap? if not i'll avoid these types of topics if i were you. to me doin this just says you have nothin better to do in your free time and thats pretty sad.
Vanguard ( or any mmorpg for that matter ) costs the average gamer about 10-20 cents an hour to play over the course of a year. Less than a cup of coffee or a can of Coke. How can one complain about playing a $30+ million production and yet only charge 10-20 cents an hour to play? Where else can one find such value? No mmorpg is EVER done..finished...optimized ect. Computer games in general always require some kind of patching to be done..some more..some less...but always some. I'm getting my value and then some out of Vanguard. If you can't handle that then I suggest you stick to your Xbox for the next 5-10 years...by then computers should be much more standardized. I don't recall anyone stating VG was going to be next gen....in fact...I recall the emphasis was on the fact that Sigil cherry picked what they thought was best in other mmo's and developed these features in VG. That's not next gen...that's just smart. Next gen will likely be virtual reality or something simular... perhaps massive enhancements to NPC AI..Their isn't much else that can be done in mmorpg's with the hardware available to your average consumer these days.
Okay everyone, as long as you're throwing money around, I need 200,000 people to throw me 10-20 cents per hour every month over the next 2 years. It's such a small amount, none of you will miss it, and it will do alot for me. And I don't want to hear not even one complaint from Thamoris, the boy blunder that keeps brining up this stupid value arguement. He has already admitted that masturbation is a better value, at a cheaper cost, in a previous post.
Comments
You can stop playing or cancel subscription but that does not change the fact you feel screwed for buying something that simply isnt all you thought you paid for.
FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !
I have read what has been quoted and it just shows someone posturing while not having read the billion posts where Brad describes what he calls third gen. See? yes I can do it. Btw fanboy is an insult too.
Opinion about Vanguard? When half the posts contain SOE hatred messages? When soo much posts attributes to brad stuff he didn't say? And so on and so on etc etc etc? Most of thoses aren't opinion, just pure hate crap.
Ok I retract the "Don't take it personaly".
That's because you are a fanboi who hides from inconvenient facts. From among the million places Brad boasted of this, try Sigil's website:
Humm...OK...So what...SO what that he had these grand ideas...whatever they H*ll they were...I am glad that this fellow had high ideals and expectations for his company...he hoped to move the bar on what he thought would change the bizz model he was in....whatever that is.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:xEDDYDO3PIYJ:www.sigilgames.com/team/bradmcquaid.html+vanguard+mcquaid+third+generation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us
"Currently, Brad is involved with Sigil's next generation massively multiplayer online RPG to be co-published by Sony Online Entertainment: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes."
Ok...sounds good...whatever that means? Next generation? sounds great. Will it fly? Higher graphics? real time AI? 3-D? Or is he just talking about the "next batch of MMOs"? Really cant tell...Its got houses and flying mounts...more then some previous MMO models had...one could improve on that...so It could mean anything.
Can anyone help me out on the meaning of "Next Generation?" Wikipedia anyone?
"In January of 2002, Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler formed Sigil Games Online, Inc., a new company dedicated to the development of next generation of massively multiplayer games."
Humm...bad wording there in that....must mean..."...development of THE next generation of massively multiplayer games." Sounds right now dosn't it?
"While it's too early to reveal some of the truly third generation features in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, suffice it to say that Brad feels the industry has only scratched the surface in terms of where MMOGs can and will head ..."
OK too early...what does that mean?...there is that word again...third generation...is that newer then the second generation..and what is that? Could EQ2 be second generation? Is DAOC first generation? If my guess is correct I do see some differences...
OK...this begs a question...is LOTRO "third generation?" cause if it is...it brings nothing new to the medium. Does vanguards houses, diplomacy system, flying mounts and other little minor systems seperated it from the pack and make it this so called "third generation?"
And why do you care what its called....pick a game that fits your needs..."I happen to like the housing and mount aspect as NO other game provides that right now."...and go with it....I am sure that is what will make it "third generation" to you.
To simply answer your dilema and everyone else who has issues with vg is this, "JUST DON"T PAY TO PLAY" sigil is not forcing you to play their game. There is a little button on your subcription page that says "Cancel Subscription"
That's because you are a fanboi who hides from inconvenient facts. From among the million places Brad boasted of this, try Sigil's website:
Humm...OK...So what...SO what that he had these grand ideas...whatever they H*ll they were...I am glad that this fellow had high ideals and expectations for his company...he hoped to move the bar on what he thought would change the bizz model he was in....whatever that is.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:xEDDYDO3PIYJ:www.sigilgames.com/team/bradmcquaid.html+vanguard+mcquaid+third+generation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us
"Currently, Brad is involved with Sigil's next generation massively multiplayer online RPG to be co-published by Sony Online Entertainment: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes."
Ok...sounds good...whatever that means? Next generation? sounds great. Will it fly? Higher graphics? real time AI? 3-D? Or is he just talking about the "next batch of MMOs"? Really cant tell...Its got houses and flying mounts...more then some previous MMO models had...one could improve on that...so It could mean anything.
Can anyone help me out on the meaning of "Next Generation?" Wikipedia anyone?
"In January of 2002, Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler formed Sigil Games Online, Inc., a new company dedicated to the development of next generation of massively multiplayer games."
Humm...bad wording there in that....must mean..."...development of THE next generation of massively multiplayer games." Sounds right now dosn't it?
"While it's too early to reveal some of the truly third generation features in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, suffice it to say that Brad feels the industry has only scratched the surface in terms of where MMOGs can and will head ..."
OK too early...what does that mean?...there is that word again...third generation...is that newer then the second generation..and what is that? Could EQ2 be second generation? Is DAOC first generation? If my guess is correct I do see some differences...
OK...this begs a question...is LOTRO "third generation?" cause if it is...it brings nothing new to the medium. Does vanguards houses, diplomacy system, flying mounts and other little minor systems seperated it from the pack and make it this so called "third generation?"
And why do you care what its called....pick a game that fits your needs..."I happen to like the housing and mount aspect as NO other game provides that right now."...and go with it....I am sure that is what will make it "third generation" to you.
LOTRO is definately not a next-gen game.
I hate to break it to you but VG offers NOTHING NEW and has done NOTHING TO SEPERATE IT FROM THE PACK.
Games already had flying mounts and housing.
Minor differences do not make next-gen games either, hence why VG and LOTRO are not next-gen and will most likely be outclassed by future mmos. VG is obviously more prone to this.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Don't be a moron..Even though I agree with you partly...Yes there's a "cancel subscription" button...lol...But it's unfair when we have all these half-assed games flooding the market and game lists when no one is playing them (ex. SWG)...Vanguard is gunna die too, all the SoE games are...Well, the ones where SoE has the developing majority. I know VG sucks...I know it's gunna die...I know you don't have to pay if you don't want to..But it's unfair when we have a so-so game standing on the market and the developers would rather charge monster prices for it and get no players than lower the price to something appropriate for that game and let ppl play
If there is one thing that Vanguard proves it is that cost alone does not make a great game; so when I get told that I should feel priviliged to pay so much an hour because the game cost so much it gives me this bad feeling - sorry doesn't cut it. What it suggests is mis-management of the highest order - something hinted at in the NYTimes review and since.
The game was not finished. Sigil released regardless and are reaping the rewards of that decision. No option we are told - so we are saying that SoE would have turned down an offer to buy Vanguard outright in return for money to finish the game prior to release? If so that is a bad condemnation of the game - and it may be true, SoE may be looking to pick the game up cheaply. On the other hand - if it was an option - then that just means its a case of get the subscribers to fund beta. P.S. Monthly sub going up to $65 a month but its only a Starbucks a day so feel good - bah
It isn't really worth posting, better games are a coming.
Yup, a lot of debugging that should be completed before release was not. MS had apparently lost patience with delays, and SOE was willing to put up some money for the publishing rights. Apparently SOE lost patience with delays, and Sigil had to launch before the game was ready.
So sure, the game should have been more polished, but given the "quality" of the program management, the choice in the end was launch unfinished or not at all. (And with the amount invested, monetarily, emotionally, and chronologically, there was no choice.) So the players' choice is much the same; play as it's debugged, or not at all. If on balance, you decide to play, there's not much point in telling others that the game's unfinished. Believe it or not, others have noticed it too.
I had a lot of problems with the game, but they were with the design choices and lack of fun... Much fairer grounds for criticism I believe.
Then you should of waited until all the reviews came out before buying it.
Im starting to get the feeling that most people only come in here to stand up on there soap box and get attention.... I can make a list several pages long with games I bought that turned out to be duds.. From my early years of Atari 2600 to present.... I figure it was my fault for rushing out and buying it before doing any research...
And if $50 is going to break you, then you have no bussiness buying any games let alone a MMO which charges $15 a month on top of the $50 for the game..
And whats up with all these people going on and on about how all these great games (which have not even been released yet) are going to blow Vanguard away..... You would think they would at least wait until the game comes out before saying how great it is... I predict 80% of the people who are going around saying that LOTRO is the greatest MMO ever will be on the LOTRO Forums 2 days after launch complaining about how crappy it is...
My purpose here is not to bash Vanguard or SOE ,they are but the latest . But to cause each of us who have shelled out our money for a product that was simply not up to speed to pause and think about why we are doing this. I chose VG since they were the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.
As long as we continue to send the message that it's ok to release games in an unfinished state. Then to stand up for said games, we are going to be screwed. Yes I enjoyed some parts of VG. but is the game worth 15 bucks a month as it now stands? it's not the money, it's simply I'm tired of gaming companies thinking they can talk the talk then they crawl along when it's time to walk the walk.
...... It's time for these companies to figure out they we gamers are not the gullible nerds they seem to think we are.
That's because you are a fanboi who hides from inconvenient facts. From among the million places Brad boasted of this, try Sigil's website:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:xEDDYDO3PIYJ:www.sigilgames.com/team/bradmcquaid.html+vanguard+mcquaid+third+generation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us
"Currently, Brad is involved with Sigil's next generation massively multiplayer online RPG to be co-published by Sony Online Entertainment: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes."
"In January of 2002, Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler formed Sigil Games Online, Inc., a new company dedicated to the development of next generation of massively multiplayer games."
"While it's too early to reveal some of the truly third generation features in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, suffice it to say that Brad feels the industry has only scratched the surface in terms of where MMOGs can and will head ..."
If you look up "pwned" in the dictionary, this post comes up. Srsly Thamoris... you should go sit in the corner for an hour as punishment.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I like to use different color text because it makes my post appear important.
UO-EQ1-SWG-DAOC-WOW-EQ2-WAR-GW2-RIFT
God i hate when peoples (fanboys) always come up with the PRICE excuse. It's not because it's 000000.1 cent per milliseconds (you can divide 15$ per month by 1/00000th of a sec if you want), because it's cheaper then a cup of coffee, i don't give a ****. The point IS. They released a CRAPPY, UNFINISHED, BUGGY game and expect peoples to PAY for it.
It's not because something it's CHEAP that it has to SUCKS ! STOP always coming up with that excuse. Anyone can make up crap software, does that mean that they can sell it for cheap so that peoples won't have the right to complain, NO.
There will always be games released too early and buggy as all get out. VG is a good example of this.
And there will always be players willing to buy them no matter what state the game is in.
What is new is the level of "viral marketing" and damge control being done by those companies to try and save their reputations. A person really has to wonder if there is a Sigil employee ( or some employee from whatever game is being discussed ) behind many of the "fanboi" posts.
Thanks for posting.
eqnext.wikia.com
No one could figure it out.
eqnext.wikia.com
I'm sure people forget that their PC isn't really THAT GOOD ( I'm not talking running VG, I'm talking runnning the sort of game they have in MIND ). It's like going to the cinema and then complaining that the film was only shown on a 2D screen. Maybe, JUST maybe one day a PC will exist that satisfies your demand for something so special.
Why even give yourself the headache of believing some people actually want an unchanging MMO? We just want one finished at release. We definitely want one finished two months after release.
Okay everyone, as long as you're throwing money around, I need 200,000 people to throw me 10-20 cents per hour every month over the next 2 years. It's such a small amount, none of you will miss it, and it will do alot for me. And I don't want to hear not even one complaint from Thamoris, the boy blunder that keeps brining up this stupid value arguement. He has already admitted that masturbation is a better value, at a cheaper cost, in a previous post.