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Death Nerfed
Korusus
Member UncommonPosts: 831
Hi Everyone,Posted by Elrar at Vanguard Spheres
I’m sure as many of you may be starting to notice there have been a few changes to the death mechanics with our move to Build 1799, at this point we have not published patch notes for them as they are experimental, however, we still very much so appreciate your feedback on them!
The current changes are:
- You will no longer leave a corpse when you die; instead you will drop an essence.
- You no longer leave items (Soulbound or not) on your essence.
- Essences will return a large amount of experience upon retrieval.
- Your essence will decay after 70 hours.
- Altars will still allow you to summon corpses from before the patch on 3/30/07 (Build 1799), however, you are unable to summon essences.
- The amount of experience lost when you die has been decreased.
These changes are part of our ongoing plan to improve your experience while playing vanguard without removing the risk involved. Please realize that these may be changed and modified as we continuously test them to ensure the best gameplay experience is achieved.
We welcome you to discuss your feedback, experiences, and concerns in this thread as we work together to make Vanguard even better!
See you in Telon,
- The Vanguard Team
www.vanguardspheres.com/forums/test-server/9287-death-mechanic-changes-feedback-thread.html#post33713
Thoughts?
I had my bets on at least 6 months before they did something like this. So much for Vanguard being "hardcore".
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
Comments
corpse runs are not hardcore.
I like this change.
No matter whether they tweak experience penalties up or down, I hope they at least stick to that model.
But on another note, the Brad has said that he can keep both "core" gamers and casual gamers happy in the same game. Seems kinda hard to do when your making fundamental changes to a core system like death-penalty. Your not gonna please them all Brad....dont kid yourself.
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
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"early april fools?"
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
They should not go for the casual Gamer. They need to stay true to their original premise. They will not get short term gains by remaining hardcore but eventually they could become a niche for a handful of Gamers on a couple of servers. If they try to compete with WoW, LoTR, EQ2, and many upcoming games they will crash and burn. Casual Gamers will not have anything to do with this game even if they somehow figure out how to fix the game.
If they keep moving this direction it forces me to believe that they are getting desperate for subs and can not absorb the losses in being a niche. If you are a fan of the game I guess you should accept it. Maybe it is their best guess at how to keep the lights on. It certainly makes the game a little less annoying.
Could they possibly be down to 50k subs already?
Game update 2!
More dummying down and alienating the original hardcore target audience.
They should not go for the casual Gamer. They need to stay true to their original premise. They will not get short term gains by remaining hardcore but eventually they could become a niche for a handful of Gamers on a couple of servers. If they try to compete with WoW, LoTR, EQ2, and many upcoming games they will crash and burn. Casual Gamers will not have anything to do with this game even if they somehow figure out how to fix the game.
If they keep moving this direction it forces me to believe that they are getting desperate for subs and can not absorb the losses in being a niche. If you are a fan of the game I guess you should accept it. Maybe it is their best guess at how to keep the lights on. It certainly makes the game a little less annoying.
Could they possibly be down to 50k subs already?
Probably.
The influx of new players is too low atm.
Newbees have noone to group with, the world is spread out so much.
And now the "hardcore" people are crying cause they don't want any change, but fail to see VG is going to go bankrupt soon unless they do something.
If they "stay true" to their hardcore audience as you call it, they'd have 10k subs left instead of 50k.
If those changes to the death penalty stand, they risk alienating these players, who wanted a more difficult, challenging game with what they consider a meaningful death penalty. Aiming for the more casual player is a double-edged sword, since they risk losing the people who have been following the game for years.
If those changes to the death penalty stand, they risk alienating these players, who wanted a more difficult, challenging game with what they consider a meaningful death penalty. Aiming for the more casual player is a double-edged sword, since they risk losing the people who have been following the game for years.
There's not enough "hardcore" people left to support this game, that's the problem.
Not many from EQ or Lineage2 actually went to Vanguard.
Any changes they make that make the game easier only blurs any lines between VG and games like EQ2, WoW, and LOTR. Why would anyone choose VG then, if they can get a similar gaming experience from other games, only with better performance, polish and stability?
They're walking a very fine line here. Of course, they always have, because trying to appeal to everyone (casual and hardcore) means you end up appealing to no one.
I'm not so sure about that. I think the key here is picking a target audience and sticking with it.As for my self I would probably still be playing right now if I knew what direction this game was going. Is it going to be Vanguard(the vision) or is it going to be WoW v2.0? Time will tell, but if they start putting WoW stuff in the game instead of Vanguard stuff then I'm walking away and never looking back.
If those changes to the death penalty stand, they risk alienating these players, who wanted a more difficult, challenging game with what they consider a meaningful death penalty. Aiming for the more casual player is a double-edged sword, since they risk losing the people who have been following the game for years.
There's not enough "hardcore" people left to support this game, that's the problem.
Not many from EQ or Lineage2 actually went to Vanguard.
What I simply don't understand is these Sigil guys. They are EQ1 guys and I am sure their lives have changed with possibly kids, Wives, and of course demanding jobs. I am sure they would not be able to spend the time to play Vanguard. Why did they think us old EQ1 guys have that same sort of time? They are making a game that they themselves could not even play.
Even if we have the time why would we want to rehash the same old crap? That is a big $30 million gamble.
- Self punishment teaches me lessons: If your honestly that anal retentive where you need to be punished after making some dumb mistake that most likely you knew was dumb (you know, that famous mis-target) then odds are you won't learn anyway if they made the debt 20%.
- Death is Hardcore and a great part of the game: I guess I'm not hardcore because I take chances and sometimes die instead of sitting in a group in with a class with the ability to revive group members. Most "hardcore" groupers that I know always have someone who can revive and summon in the groups. Funny how people who tend to either group with healers or die very seldom always support harsh penalties.
- Don't dumb down the game with less of a death penalty: To harsh of a penalty dumbs down the game because people are more reluctant to test their capacity and try new things for fear of wasting 6 hours of experience on 15 minutes of experimenting.
- We don't need to cater to casual care-bears: There already is quite a "carebear" system in the game with players being able to revive other players. I seriously doubt that there are "hardcore guilds" out there that don't allow revives in raids because you should have to run all the way back to learn a lesson.
It's a game people:- If you don't die very often then the change has little effect on you so why should you care.
- If you do die often, then decreasing the severity of death may just help you enjoy the game a little more and that's why we all should be playing in the first place. Why should I feel any better knowing that someone who is ready to quit out of frustration is having a miserable time in the game? If I'm really that selfish, then I should accept that their monthly subscription helps pay for the development of the game and in turn will help me.
I have often wondered if the people that post the things about the death penalty needing to be as severe as possible would insist on a ticket instead of a warning if pulled over for speeding. "No Officer, give me the ticket I deserve, otherwise when I leave here I will speed off at 100 mph because I won't understand why you pulled me over".I also wanted to add that death is the consequence many times of a failed challenge. For those who succeed in the challenge (encounter) without a death, there is less of a repair cost and more time to meet the next challenge. For those who fail often in means having to start over on that challenge or walk away. Those who play MMoG's for the most part play it for the challenge and those who play well enjoy taking on more content with a great deal of pride in knowing they often beat the challenge with few deaths. Those who don't fair quite as well really don't need to be constantly reminded of their lack of tactics/ability through endless meaningless grinds.
I have an active sub to WoW and the LotR Online open beta, but I am not sure if they are better than Vanguard at this point.
Excellent point, imho.
However, I think SIGIL greatly overestimated the extent of this "hardcore" gamer. Further, SIGIL believes that frustrations and annoyances are aspects of a "hardcore" game... and that is utterly silly if not an expensive assumption. lol.
Nod.
People that want a more hardcore game have ready made groups and are in guilds and play only with friends.
They don't undergo the hardcore aspect of the game.
They don't wipe a lot, and xp at a rate 4 times as fast as any other person.
The persons playing the hardcore game, are the ones soloing and starting the game without a guild, and wiping and trying to grind their way to some lvl's on their own.
Those are the ones that play the hardcore game, not the person backed up by 60 other toons in their guild who have 10 clerics ready to rezz their butt.
Contrary to popular belief, harsh death penalties = tedious, mundane gameplay because people won't push their characters to the limit. People talk about risk and rewards. There is no risk. There's only time spent. But first and foremost, MMOs are a game that needs to be fun and the devs should do everything to make sure the game is fun.
I played the beta, and I liked the class system, but when by 8th level I started running into rampant camping already. I remembered why I left EQ1 is the first place, especially now that I have kids, and a job.