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Are WAR graphics meant more for the Asia market then US

SickpupSickpup Member Posts: 382
in Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning
Asia is the predominate mmo region,especially korea. The mmo is the only computer games sold in that market since any single player game would sell 10 copies at best,then have 10 million copies in 2 weeks.That cartoony like graphics,semi-animae ,are what korean market seems to  go for.WoWs player base is over 85% asian accts. I'm fearing war is a transitional game for the pve only type (carebears) and a stab at the lucrative asian market.Personally I don't want to be involved ,or should I say flooded with that type of player base.



When I look at aoc graphics,they seem much more like advanced DAoC type graphics,moe lifelike and photorealistic.I believe those are the type of graphics most serious players in the US and Europe prefere. WAR might get the masses,but I believe AoC will get the classs.

WAR may easily grab 5-10 times the players,gold farmers,pler's ect. than AoC ,but I believe AoC will get the better gamers.The lvling system and pvp rewards in AoC seem like a layered defense vs Korean farmers,imo.
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Comments

  • DowieDowie Member Posts: 280
    Here is what a typical asian game look like:

    images.mmorpg.com/images/screenshots/112005/5005.jpg



    And here is warhammer online:

    www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/screenshots/full/SS0306_10.jpg



    There is a big difference there for me, and i promise you mythic would never aim for a market in Asia :)





    Edit: bah! why do i keep typing "i" instead of  "a" :)
  • CranmerCranmer Member Posts: 7
    So you came here to praise AoC and bash WAR? How nice. Go here:

    http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/default.htm and compare miniatures with WAR screenshots. Yes this is where WAR art style comes from and it doesn't look like this to please asian gamers. "Semi-anime" - what a nonsense!
  • Unknown
    Originally posted by Dowie

    Here is what i typical asian game look like:

    images.mmorpg.com/images/screenshots/112005/5005.jpg



    And here is warhammer online:

    www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/screenshots/full/SS0306_10.jpg



    There is a big difference there for me, and i promise you mythic would never aim for a market in Asia :)



    Hey, Dowie

    That picture from the asian MMORPG, what is that game name ?. Its kinda look cute.

  • SickpupSickpup Member Posts: 382
    I don't bash or endorse any product.Im just a gamers with an opinion.And I prefere more lifelike graphical environments.I have noticed in the latest screenshots that EA has toned the cartoonish graphics down a notch.Im personally not overjoyed with WAR graphics style.It definately leans towards a WoW or lineage 2 look rather than an Improved DAoC look.The implimentation of instances to cap pvp sides to equal numbers is imo a safeguard vs asian based zergs wrecking a server,which they are well known for.



    I Mean it's kind of obvious any large(st) game company would want a piece of that market.I can't blame them for it.Even WoW is only around 800-900k US accts. If you wanna break a million subs your gonna have to tap asia.



    Mythic tried to get a piece of japan,korea with daoc.It just didn't take off that well.EA has the reps,layers,and money to grease the wheels of regulatory,trade,and other of officials neccessary to get thier product there.



    If mythic had not blundererd Daoc with bad expansions and put themselves treading water resource wise.Then I could see a different picture. But the basis of any corporation is to make money and grow the business.



    Personnally im a WAR fan,but an concerned that the macro economics involved in multi-national corporations, will affect content,and player base.



    I would prefer mmos to be more niche like,maybe 300-500k area.And that the gamecorps make alot of them.Well I don't mean spam kaka,but cover more genres.
  • AreelAreel Member Posts: 285

    Recent attempts at "realistic" visuals have fallen flat.  EQ2, Vanguard.  Characters look painfully artificial and bland.  WAR's characters are stylized, in a style that could be considered "cartoony" to some.  I hate that word, cartoony.  There are many different artistic styles to use in gaming. but I think attempts at realism often conflict with the formation of an overall art design in the game.  Besides, Warhammer's artistic design is already established in the tabletop versioon, and it was intended for a Western audiience, not Asia.

    Anime?  Hardly.  I'm an anime-addict, and I can say with 100% certainty that WAR does not have anime-like visuals.  RFOnline, Flyff, and dozens of other Korean imports are anime.  L2 has some anime influences.  Granado Espada, which may have European influenced clothing designs, still has a noticable anime presence.  But WAR does not.

    Seriously.
    It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.

  • SickpupSickpup Member Posts: 382
    Ok retract animae. vanguard is just a pay tp play beta.But you see my point when you mention Eq2 not being a hit because it has realistic graphics,plus its a carebare game.WoW goes cartonny and is a hit in asia.Actually I believe there is some law in korea about killing human players on-line,i am not kidding,koreans are hard core gamers.That cartoonish graphics may be a way to skirt that law.



    Not sure if it is still on the books.one funny note the korean gold farmers and pl companies have decided to form a trade organization.



    Will EA settle for less than a million subs and stay focused on us/euro.Being that EAdon't need the money as much as credibilty  wih gamers.That is a possible tactic,but doubtfull.
  • COAgamerCOAgamer Member Posts: 190
    so explain to me how the item farming is going to work. Since the best rewards come from looting cities I have to wonder how long its going to take to farm the best items. Go watch the new podcast and then come back. Farming wont work in WAR, it wont even make sense. But if thats what your afraid of then by all means go play AOC and leave WAR for the rest of us.

    Modjoe86- Gambling is a sin.
    Laserwolf- Only if you lose.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Waiting for= PSU, WAR

  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    Originally posted by Battlekruse
    Originally posted by Dowie
    Here is what i typical asian game look like:
    images.mmorpg.com/images/screenshots/112005/5005.jpgAnd here is warhammer online:
    www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/screenshots/full/SS0306_10.jpgThere is a big difference there for me, and i promise you mythic would never aim for a market in Asia :)

    Hey, Dowie
    That picture from the asian MMORPG, what is that game name ?. Its kinda look cute.

    That would be Rose Online.

    As to the original topic, while WoW might cater to the Asian audience, due to the Koreans fixation with Blizzards games, I don't think Mythic will specifically cater to them.

    I'm sure there are Asians that play Warhammer, but it's biggest market would be Europe and particularly the UK. WFB is pretty popular in the UK, so I'd say the brunt of their audience would come from there, if they can get the tabletoppers to transition over, and work around all the ill will GOA has garnered from DAoC.

  • AreelAreel Member Posts: 285

    First, let's get something out of the way.  We're talking about art design and visual style.  The appearance of the gameworld.  "Graphics" are the techical bells and whistles that power the game's visuals.  Textures, poly counts, lighting effects.  Those are graphics.  Armor with spikes is visual style.

    I'm just clarifying this so you don't get confused by the next part.

    WoW's visual style is NOT the main factor for its success, here or in Asia.  It's has great artistic design, true.  And a lot of people find the visual style appealing.  But that didn't rocket it into the millions of subscribers.  WoW's success is based on being geared for the casual player, on the popularity of the IP, and because the graphical requirements are so low that anyone's computer can play it.  It's also a fun game.

    EQ2 didn't do (as) well because it wasn't really casual friendly at launch, it's artistic design was bland, and the graphical requirements were pretty high for the time.  It just wasn't as good a game.  It wasn't the visual style that kept it from becoming a blockbuster.  Anyway, WoW's multimillion subscription base is an abberation, a fluke.  Most successful MMOs score less than a million subs.  IF WAR can pull even 500,000 subs, then it would be a rousing success.

    There is no such law in Korea.  The only restictions in Korea are references to the Korean War, and the conflict between North and South.  Actually, you're thinking of some European countries.  Greece at one time banned all games, because their lawmakers couldn't tell the difference between online gambling casinos and Tomb Raider.  But the biggest regulator of gaming is Germany.  Aside from all references to the Third Reich, Hitler, and Nazis being illegal, they also recently attempted to ban not only the sale of any game with violence (against human beings) in it, but also playing them!  The law was directed at all sales, including adults.  Some of their lawmakers are convinced that not anly are games harmful to minors, but that they incite real violence in adults.

    EA is all about the bottom dollar, never forget that.  They will screw over developers and push out unfinished (and uninspired) crap, if it saved them a dime.

    Seriously.
    It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.

  • CranmerCranmer Member Posts: 7
    Originally posted by Sickpup



    The implimentation of instances to cap pvp sides to equal numbers is imo a safeguard vs asian based zergs wrecking a server,which they are well known for.



    Yes, of course.  It didn't come to your mind that they might be implementing them, because they think scenarios are fun and give some additional possibilities compared to open pvp.  No, of course they're just a defense measure against asian hordes lol.   Pity they haven't released info on elves yet. You would have another argument to support your fancy theory. They all look like anime characters you know, chinese will love it...
    Originally posted by Sickpup



    I Mean it's kind of obvious any large(st) game company would want a piece of that market.I can't blame them for it.Even WoW is only around 800-900k US accts. If you wanna break a million subs your gonna have to tap asia.



    You may not know this, but besides US and Asia there's another continent called Europe.  US + Europe and they easily could brake 1mln subscribers.
  • anubisssanubisss Member Posts: 325
    Originally posted by Sickpup

    Asia is the predominate mmo region,especially korea. The mmo is the only computer games sold in that market since any single player game would sell 10 copies at best,then have 10 million copies in 2 weeks.That cartoony like graphics,semi-animae ,are what korean market seems to  go for.WoWs player base is over 85% asian accts. I'm fearing war is a transitional game for the pve only type (carebears) and a stab at the lucrative asian market.Personally I don't want to be involved ,or should I say flooded with that type of player base.



    When I look at aoc graphics,they seem much more like advanced DAoC type graphics,moe lifelike and photorealistic.I believe those are the type of graphics most serious players in the US and Europe prefere. WAR might get the masses,but I believe AoC will get the classs.

    WAR may easily grab 5-10 times the players,gold farmers,pler's ect. than AoC ,but I believe AoC will get the better gamers.The lvling system and pvp rewards in AoC seem like a layered defense vs Korean farmers,imo.
    Its great that you like the more real life characters you find in games like Vanguard-EQ1-2.For me and i would say every follower of  WARHAMMER TT, would not have it any other way.

    If  you know anything about Games Workshop then you will no that Mythic have been given the IP to create a MMORPG that follows the Look and Feel of Warhammer.

    I will place a bet with you here and now that you will be playing WAR in 12 months time forgetting that you ever though WAR was a no hoper.AOC will have the kids playing more so than WAR imo.The reason is from the look of it AOC will be across all platforms ie XBOX-PS3-PC and everyone can play together.So how anyone comes to the conclusion that because AOC is rated Mature its going to be full of older players is beyond me.

    Funcom have not shown us anything new really in a long time.You get your new screens or the odd vid but i have not seen this grat PVP you talk about in any vids so far.How long has AOC been in development? a lot longer than WAR yet we see screens and vid blog all the time.Funcom are known for there piss poor service and they are also known for saying and not doing,as in game content.



    I am not saying AOC will fail but  WAR  imo has just the right stuff to run along side the best of them.Asia will suck WAR up have no doubt.
  • KnightblastKnightblast Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    The "lifelike" graphics games are all -- very boring graphically, to be honest.  Lots of browns and greys and dark greens, wooden character models, overly geometrical-looking town areas and so forth.  In striving to be "lifelike", they've mostly come off as looking very artificial, and in a bad way for a fantasy game.



    WoW has poor "graphics", techically, but good "visuals" because the emphasis was on art design over pixel counts.  WAR's graphics really do not look much like WoW's, in my opinion, but if you do find similarities it's because WoW's world is based somewhat on Warhammer, and Warhammer's world is a fantasy world full of color.  A main part of the Warhammer miniatures game hobby is taking the time to paint your models and units so that they are very colorful and evocative, a real riot of color on the game map -- color is good, bland is bad, that is a part of the Warhammer atmosphere.  The idea behind more colorful and slightly less "lifelike" graphics is not anime or cartoon, but simply the proper and best way to render a fantasyland that features colorful elements such as Warhammer's world does.  Based on the screens and videos I have seen, and my significant experience with Warhammer-related books, games and materials over the years, it strikes me that Mythic is basically getting it very right in the graphics area in terms of evoking a Warhammer feel and atmosphere.
  • SickpupSickpup Member Posts: 382
    This is not an AoC vs War thread.All im saying,and i dont care what you call it,I believe Wars graphics are atm cartoonish,or goofy.If thats what the warhammer universe is supposed to look like,then warhammer universe looks silly.



    It may be unfair to judge the  mmo graphics of a dx9 game vs a dx10 game atm.



    because a game has a console version that will run on different servers is better imo,so kid plays console dad on comp. Developers don't have the money to put out big mmo's so they sign pacts with the devil.Mythic to EA. AoC to Microsoft,so they could get a dx10 mmo ,on there xbox.yes thats right microscam has built x-box  dx10 ready,what a coincidence.
  • VegettaVegetta Member Posts: 438

    http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/WAR-VotM_2007-03_Login.html


    AOC looks a bit plastic IMO - USually graphics dont mean as much to me as gameplay but I really was turned off by the AOC screenies I have seen.

    image

  • RodzillaRodzilla Member UncommonPosts: 159
     I really dont care how  they go with the grafix as long as the pvp ( rvr ) is good.

    searching for the next DAoC....

    Kay-exile

  • JimmyLegsJimmyLegs Member Posts: 361
    Originally posted by Rodzilla

     I really dont care how  they go with the grafix as long as the pvp ( rvr ) is good.
    Agreed, graphics mean nothing if the content is garbage. I would settle for a game that looks like DAoC or EQ1 but the content is far beyond WoW, WAR, and AoC put together.



    I think WAR looks way to grudgy and bloody to appel twords to kinder, gentler Asian market. I don't care really, just don't ruin the game farmers... and mess up the economy (like in WoW, Major Mana (5) use to be about 5g and less after all the deletions and bans shot right up to +20g a stack). No matter, let's just have some fun!
  • AreelAreel Member Posts: 285

    While the visual style of AoC doesn't really appeal to me personally, I cannot fault them.  In all three factors (visual style, art design, and graphics), they have done an amazing job.

    Random AoC Screenshot

    It's not perfect, mind you.  The screenshots are all done with DX10 these days, so it probably won't look as good with DX9.  Additionally, the faces of the characters have fallen into the Uncanny Valley, probably due to the customization choices (most gamers suck at making good looking faces).  Still, for the most part, it does look great.

    Now only if we could say the same thing about the gameplay...

    Seriously.
    It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.

  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    image


    image

    First is a shot from Warhammer, 2nd from AoC. You say WAR is cartoony, and AoC is realistic? I think your place of employment should be notified of your drug use.

    P.S. Good luck with your <1 fps with any more that 5 people on screen during pvp in AoC.

  • GodliestGodliest Member Posts: 3,486

    What's so bad with cartoony graphics? Sometimes I think some of the game companies has lost focus on what really matters. I played Zelda: Windwaker and loved it, and then we could talk about cartoony graphics! image

    Some of the game companies seems to believe that just because u got good graphics a game becomes awesome. In the end it's the gameplay that will count in the game. A hell of boring game with awesome graphic or a Zelda Windwaker with cartoony graphics but awesome game, what do u choose?

    I had nothing against the WoW graphics, I personally loved them. Why should all games try to be more and more realistic? I play a game because I want to do something and maybe forget IRL, not to get as close to IRL as possible... Oh well, not that WAR or AoC is any close to IRL, but anyways... u get the point...

    image

    image

  • ArathArath Member Posts: 119

    I would like to clear something up and that is the market and subscription distribution of World of Warcraft's player base. The numbers as last released are as follows:

    North America: 2+ million subscribers

    Europe: 1.5+ million subscribers

    China: 3.5+ million subscribers

    Other: 1- million subscribers

    Source: http://www.blizzard.com/press/070111.shtml

    Oh my it looks like Asia isnt the main reason World of Warcraft is so successful. Even without Asia the game would be near to breaking 4 million subscribers. More than any western MMO pay to play has ever achieved. Also as to style and cartoony look. I reccomend checking out the newest newsletter screenshots of the Magus and Warrior-Priest depict a clearly mature semi-realistic tone to the game (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/newsletterCentral/archives/Mar2007.html) far removed from World of Warcraft (nothing against it I am a big fan of the game).

    Crysis is a game that looks close to real life no MMO is anywhere near at the moment even Age Of Conan despite it being the most technologically advanced. And like Godliest mentioned even if the game did have cartoony graphics there is nothing wrong with that and if you cant convince yourself I dont think anybody should try to.

    Also to Dowie I think its unfair to claim that a typical asian MMO looks like the one you posted (Rose Online that is). No doubt the games usally have a similar style to them but games like RF Online, Lineage II, Silk Road, Final Fantasy XI are better representations of the genre as seen from an eastern perspective. 

  • checkthis500checkthis500 Member Posts: 1,236
    Originally posted by Sickpup

    This is not an AoC vs War thread.All im saying,and i dont care what you call it,I believe Wars graphics are atm cartoonish,or goofy.If thats what the warhammer universe is supposed to look like,then warhammer universe looks silly.



    It may be unfair to judge the  mmo graphics of a dx9 game vs a dx10 game atm.



    because a game has a console version that will run on different servers is better imo,so kid plays console dad on comp. Developers don't have the money to put out big mmo's so they sign pacts with the devil.Mythic to EA. AoC to Microsoft,so they could get a dx10 mmo ,on there xbox.yes thats right microscam has built x-box  dx10 ready,what a coincidence.
    I had to jump in when you said "cartoonish or goofy."



    This is cartoonish:

    www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php



    Or This:

    www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php

    ( Take a close look at the doorway.  )



    I think this debunks cartoonish the best:

    Bloody Snowfield Video



    I think the Cartoonish claims only applied with the dwarfs, and maybe for the Orcs depending on what screenshots you were looking at, but they're definitely not giving a cartoonish environment.

    ---------------------------------------------
    I live to fight, and fight to live.

  • JimmyLegsJimmyLegs Member Posts: 361
    If you have played any warhammer game (orginal or 40K) you would know that it does take twords more of an odd look, not serious in the characters apperiance but not cartoony either. But this is no cartoon like the snow battle video and the RTS games, it's all about the blood. Have you even seen a Dreadnought pick up an Ork and crush him? I think not, it goes a little something like Dread pick him up, crushes body and blood goes all over like red rainbows, then he slams the remains into the ground.



    All I have to say, if you don't like the graphics and you think its for the Azn market, then don't play it if you think it will be bad for the game or a bad company move. Doesn't matter to me really, just don't bother me and if you do speak english properly (or well anyway).



    Don't   talk like    this     with   all     the  spaces!
  • ArkystArkyst Member Posts: 54
    Originally posted by Areel


    First, let's get something out of the way.  We're talking about art design and visual style.  The appearance of the gameworld.  "Graphics" are the techical bells and whistles that power the game's visuals.  Textures, poly counts, lighting effects.  Those are graphics.  Armor with spikes is visual style.
    I'm just clarifying this so you don't get confused by the next part.



     

    Thank you Areel!

     

    If there is one problem with gamers in general, it's this right here. To often people say, "This games graphics are horrible!"

    Only referring to the art style of the game not the actual graphics engine at all.

  • SickpupSickpup Member Posts: 382

    Actually i beleive i am typeing,and i don't feel its worth the effort to use MS word to converse with you.I have my opinion and it's just my opinion.seeing screenshots of particle effects vs ones with out,  would only fool a complete moron.I hope war does good,we need a  good transistional pvp game out there. personally I am groing scepictal on it.

    Now im hearing there will actually be gore in this game is this true.

    Remember this thread is about graphics,not the game engine.embryo 2.2 is a well known engine licensed my EA Mtyhic.

  • anubisssanubisss Member Posts: 325
    Originally posted by Sickpup


    Actually i beleive i am typeing,and i don't feel its worth the effort to use MS word to converse with you.I have my opinion and it's just my opinion.seeing screenshots of particle effects vs ones with out,  would only fool a complete moron.I hope war does good,we need a  good transistional pvp game out there. personally I am groing scepictal on it.
    Now im hearing there will actually be gore in this game is this true.
    Remember this thread is about graphics,not the game engine.embryo 2.2 is a well known engine licensed my EA Mtyhic.
    Hmm you obviously have not done your homework concerning WARS Graphics.



    The screens might come out small?



    Do these look Cartoony as you put it....Warrior Priest

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_09s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_10s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_11s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_20s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_13s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_14s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_15s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_22s.jpg



    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_14s.jpg



    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_13s.jpg



    Chaos Zealot..

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_17s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_18s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_19s.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_24s.jpg



    Troll Country...

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/TrollCountry2.jpg

    www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_23s.jpg





    These are all new screens fron April 07...



    So tell me what looks cartoony here plz?You are just looking at the Greenskins lands which are not cartoony as they are just in a different style which fits the law.



    LOL you don't expect greenskins to live in a land where there are two up 1 down lovely country houses or where everyone looks after the corn in the field and everything looks rosy.....
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