They are both going to be real good games....from what I can see now.. everyone will have different tastes, some will love WAR some AoC. And I'm sure there will be some sort of silly little flame war that will result.
Personally I will try AoC first, I enjoy the mature content of the game, and its interesting combat features. If it disappoints me, I will probably try WAR.
I feel the same exact way. I will be trying AoC and if it is not what I had hoped for then I have no problem canceling and giving WAR a shot. I believe both will come through though and be fairly good games respectively.
Why do I suck? All I did was show you what the developers themselves said. Don't shoot the messanger.
Yes you did, you showed that the developers fully intend to give more rewards for a 2-3 hour (the time period they stated their raid designs should take to complete) 40 man raid to kill the demonic servant guarding an ancient temple than a few guys killing a couple giant spiders. Congratulations.
What you continue to fail to show, mention, or even acknowledge, are the quotes that state that several other modes of acquiring equipment will have just as much, if not more, potential. I've showed them to you and Pantastic on multiple occaisions, and niether of you have yet to acknowledge it.
You have never shown me a quote that says that there will be any non-raiding alternative to progression that is equal to raiding.
I challenge you to show me a quote that says there will be small group or solo PvE alternatives to get anything that you can get from raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says you can earn through PvP anything that you can get through PvE raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says that people who do devote themselves to raiding will have NO advantage in PvP.
You know as well as I do that on this issue the best you can do to support your position is to show me a dev quote where the developer answers a question with a question.
And what I'm doing here is not trying to make AoC out to be a terrible game. I'm just trying to let people know what kind of game it will be. Some people really do like the typical raid farming setup. For them it will be great. But people who don't like that have a right to know in advance what sort of game it will be.
I can't really blame the developers for dodging the question when someone asks them directly. They are making the game THEY want to make and sticking to the standard routine when it comes to the end-game. From the time I've spent reading dev posts I think that a big part of the problem is that they simply lack the creativity to imagine anything else. But they know what would happen if they were up front and honest about it. They also know that by the time people hit the end-game it won't matter if they are pissed off because they (the devs) will already have those people's money. And once people have some time invested in a character they usually won't immediately drop a game when they hit that raiding wall. Typically they will hang around for a while even if they are unhappy with the situation.
We all know by now that only a small percentage of players actually want a PvE raid farming end-game. If the developers truly didn't intend to create that kind of game they would have little to lose by saying so in a very blunt and unambiguous manner. If they ARE creating that sort of game it makes sense for them to be circumspect and vague when directly questioned about it.
And as it turns out, when they are directly questioned about it they are unfailingly circumspect and vague.
Again I challenge you to show me just ONE developer quote which clearly states that PvE raiding will confer NO advantage to the people who do it over the people who don't do it.
I'll definitely be trying both. If they're both good, maybe I'll alternate subscriptions between the two on a month by month basis. It's been so long since I've had 2 really good MMOs to choose over at the same time that I'm really looking forward to having this problem!
I simply cant figure out what makes people even concider WAR rather than AoC, WAR is WoW and DaOC merged together, sure its a good mix, but whats new about it? Squat.
Now what's new about AoC? Tons! And it looks to be working pretty good. And Funcom is a good developer aswell, honestly anyone with some industry wits should see that Conan will kick WAR ass any day. Of course getin everything they promise right will be hard but then remember it's a MMO, if its not all polished in the start the system will be polished in the future.
Abhinanda from the federation of Annihilation of WAR.. Raise Tabula Rasa and AoC that dares to try something new! If you think WAR looks good just go play WoW instead. Got more patches behind it.
Read all about how the art of crafting will work in Age of Conan, and how player-made items will make a difference.
10. <!--[endif]-->Crafting
10.1 Will there be tradeskills and crafting in Age of Conan?
Yes, definitely. All of the four prestige classes – the Lord, the Commander, the Master and the Crafter – have access to certain crafting classes. The latter, the crafter prestige class, will be the most flexible one when it comes to this, simply because he or she is dedicated to dabble with all the crafting skills available in the game. So yes, there is definitely crafting in the game.
10.2 What sort of crafting skills are there?
There are several different crafting skills available to the prestige classes, and the crafter prestige class will have access to all of them. The crafting skills available are the following:
Weaponsmith
As the name implies, a weaponsmith specializes in making various forms of weaponry for arming those he plans to support in battle. Using techniques passed down for generations, a smith trained in these arts can produce some of the most deadly weapons in Hyboria. In addition to creating arms, this smith may also supply various other forms of weapon enhancement materials, such as whetstones and polishes.
Armorsmith
Similar to the weaponsmith, the armorsmith focuses on crafting various pieces of protective gear in addition to ways to enhance said equipment. Having many avenues available to them in terms of advancement, the armorsmith may choose to provide a very wide variety of armor styles, ranging from leather to full plate.
Gemcutter
Taking advantage of the skills of the armor and weapon smiths, the gemcutter specializes in honing and crafting gems to decorate and enhance equipment. While some gems only have minor effects, others found in crypts or carried by those practicing darker arts may carry strange powers which can be harnessed by the gemcutter’s craft. As the gemcutter is familiar with working with a fresh set of armor or weaponry, they can also provide some more straightforward modifications such as counterweights or other reinforcement.
Alchemist
Trained in various pharmaceutical and metallurgical arts, the Alchemist specializes in creating various compounds with strange and seemingly unnatural effects. Utilizing both common and rare ingredients found around Hyboria, those trained in this art may provide many useful consumables to their allies for use both in and out of battle.
Architect
Concerned more with the “big picture” than simply making equipment or potions, the architect is set on designing the more impressive buildings and siege engines used to wage war in the Border Kingdoms and beyond. Carrying a great burden of responsibility to those he allies himself with, architects facilitate the design of cities as well as devices designed to protect his allies’ assets or destroy his enemy’s.
10.3 How do you perform crafting?
Crafting is tied to different kinds of equipment that you have to use in the process. There are different kinds of establishments and structures – many of which are available to put in the player cities – which players can seek out. These may, for instance, be the smithy where players can practice the art of creating weapons and armor. The crafting system is made to be detailed and complex, yet at the same time be simple and easy to learn. There will be requirements to be met, there will be resources you need to collect in order to make things, and there is equipment that must be used to create the items. But everything will, hopefully, be very self-explanatory.
10.4 How do you become a better craftsman?
There are six tiers of crafted goods in each different crafting school. Each tier is achieved by performing a number of quests for an NPC master crafter. Once all the quests for one tier have been completed you can move onto the next tier.
10.5 Will player-made items be better than other items?
In Conan, the crafted equipment is slated to hold a very special place in the object hierarchy. The player-made items are the only ones where you can insert socket gems - thus increasing their flexibility and adaptability. The question of whether you'll find the best items in dark dungeons or on the player market, is difficult to answer and the best way to put it is probably saying that each will have their advantages and disadvantages. The gem socket system will be very valuable to the player-made items, but at the same time, dark dungeons do tend to have some useful loot.
10.6 Will the item quality depend on the resource quality?
Yes, the item quality will depend on statistics and on the materials being used, yes. That way items made from quality resources will be of better quality than others.
10.7 Will craftsmen be able to make anything other than items?
Yes, they will be able to make siege engines such as catapults and trebuchets that can be used in battles, and those who master the architect skill will also be able to create buildings and place them in the player city. The craftsmen of Hyboria have incredible power when it comes to shaping the environments and the lives of people who live there.
10.8 Is it possible to just be a crafter and nothing else?
No, you will need to advance in level as well. The Crafter is a prestige class, and prestige classes do not open up until later in the game after you've selected an archetype at level 5 and a class at level 20. The crafting prestige class – or any of the other prestige classes that also can master one or two crafting skills – are supplements to your main class, so you will still have to choose to be something else. That being said, once you've obtained the prestige class, there is nothing stopping you from just dedicating your life to making things. Advancement in the crafter prestige classes is done by finishing quests.
Read all about what sort of equipment your character and use in Age of Conan, and how it all works.
12.0 Equipment
12.1 What sort of equipment will players be able to obtain?
Just about anything you can think of. When it comes to weapons, you will for instance be able to wield swords, axes, clubs, bows, lances and much more. You'll also be able to equip yourself with defensive equipment such as armor and shields, and when we're already talking about armor, it should be noted that there will be a vast variety of these in Age of Conan. Every race has their specific armor sets, and there are a lot of different ones to choose from.
12.2 Will there be any items or equipment not related to combat?
Yes, of course. Furniture for instance – these are items that can be placed in the houses you build in your player city – and you will also be able to buy different of clothing, jewelry and so on. We know how important the social aspects of a MMO is, and try our best to cater for this in the game.
12.3 Can anyone use any type of armor or weapon?
No, the ability to equip items is based on the feats you have obtained. Age of Conan is largely based around a system of feats which you obtain over the course of the game. And while equipment will not be class-specific, it will be feat-specific. It should be noted the certain feats can only be obtained by certain classes. So you will, for instance, need a special feat to wear plate armor or wield certain types of weapons. Not all players can earn every feat, so there is a system of controlling who have access to what. But there is more than enough for everyone.
12.4 Will items decay over time?
No, as of now there are no plans to have item decay in the game. This may or may not be tweaked through testing as it’s essential for MMOs to have “money sinks” to keep a stable and fair economy.
12.5 Will players be able to make their own equipment?
Yes, there is a complete crafting system in the game. Players can create all sorts of items, and player-made equipment is especially valuable because they are the only ones that can be fitted with special gems that give the character benefits in combat. Whether or not the best equipment is made or found out in the wild is difficult to answer, but we're aiming for the middle-road where there will be advantages and disadvantages to both. Please see the Crafting chapter for more information.
12.6 Will there be different kinds of item quality?
Yes, absolutely. Items come in different levels of quality, something which is especially true when it comes to player-made items which can be made from materials and resources which also have different levels of quality. Statistics like damage output is very much dependent on item quality.
12.7 If the combat system is largely based on human skill, what do weapon statistics do?
The aspect of human skill is only one part of the combat system. Even though you direct your attacks and do the strikes yourself, you are still dependent on the weapon you use being good enough both in terms of quality and statistics. How and where you strike may be up to you, but the statistics bound to the weapon you're using is determining how much damage you're dealing.
12.8 Will there be dual-wielding?
We are planning on including dual-wielding, yes, but we're not ready to go into details on this.
12.9 How will equipment relate to races and nations in the game?
In general we're not planning to include any specific equipment which can only be worn by one race. As for the styles of equipment such as weapons and armor, there will be a multitude of different styles both when it comes to the graphical representations of them, how they actually work and where they can be found. There will be regional looks to generic equipment for all the three nations Aquilonia, Cimmeria and Stygia, and there will also be different looks depending on the culture the equipment originates from.
While discussion about both games' features is a healthy thing, its pure speculation to say which game is better because neither one has entered open beta stage. Comparing features that might or might not be implemented is good, but still does not answer a direct question like "Will this specific feature be to my liking? It sounds like fun, but will I really like it?" You cant say for certain which game is better until you try both of them.
That aside, Im looking forward to AoC a bit stronger due to amazingly beautiful and realistic books that AoC's lore is based on. But WAR is not too far behind, i was impressed by the trailer and WAR's features are impressive. Now I only hope all those promised features are implemented the way I like it. For both games.Otherwise we are gonna end up with broken AoC and WAR limping alongside Vanguard with a great but unfulfilled vision.
I simply cant figure out what makes people even concider WAR rather than AoC, WAR is WoW and DaOC merged together, sure its a good mix, but whats new about it? Squat.
Now what's new about AoC? Tons! And it looks to be working pretty good. And Funcom is a good developer aswell, honestly anyone with some industry wits should see that Conan will kick WAR ass any day. Of course getin everything they promise right will be hard but then remember it's a MMO, if its not all polished in the start the system will be polished in the future.
Abhinanda from the federation of Annihilation of WAR.. Raise Tabula Rasa and AoC that dares to try something new! If you think WAR looks good just go play WoW instead. Got more patches behind it.
I concur, AoC does look way more interesting than WAR and this coming from a Warhammer fanboi (started back in the 80's)!
If Blizzard would have designed WoW2, I would imagine it would have looked a lot like what WAR looks to be. Just an opinion FYI.
But, I'm still torn between the two for 3 reasons. First, like I said, I'm Warhammer fanboi. Second, Funcom's leetskillz of removing lag and bugs, playing AO has teached that (/sarcasm off). Third, system requirements. Conan may very well trip over the same way Vanguard has done. This is not a huge issue for me personally, but I don't want to play in a half-empty world because 95% of world MMO players can't run it. Not saying that it will be any better in WAR, but for that it's too early to even make a guess.
Yes you did, you showed that the developers fully intend to give more rewards for a 2-3 hour (the time period they stated their raid designs should take to complete) 40 man raid to kill the demonic servant guarding an ancient temple than a few guys killing a couple giant spiders. Congratulations. What you continue to fail to show, mention, or even acknowledge, are the quotes that state that several other modes of acquiring equipment will have just as much, if not more, potential. I've showed them to you and Pantastic on multiple occaisions, and niether of you have yet to acknowledge it.
You have never shown me a quote that says that there will be any non-raiding alternative to progression that is equal to raiding.
I challenge you to show me a quote that says there will be small group or solo PvE alternatives to get anything that you can get from raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says you can earn through PvP anything that you can get through PvE raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says that people who do devote themselves to raiding will have NO advantage in PvP.
You know as well as I do that on this issue the best you can do to support your position is to show me a dev quote where the developer answers a question with a question.
And what I'm doing here is not trying to make AoC out to be a terrible game. I'm just trying to let people know what kind of game it will be. Some people really do like the typical raid farming setup. For them it will be great. But people who don't like that have a right to know in advance what sort of game it will be.
I can't really blame the developers for dodging the question when someone asks them directly. They are making the game THEY want to make and sticking to the standard routine when it comes to the end-game. From the time I've spent reading dev posts I think that a big part of the problem is that they simply lack the creativity to imagine anything else. But they know what would happen if they were up front and honest about it. They also know that by the time people hit the end-game it won't matter if they are pissed off because they (the devs) will already have those people's money. And once people have some time invested in a character they usually won't immediately drop a game when they hit that raiding wall. Typically they will hang around for a while even if they are unhappy with the situation.
We all know by now that only a small percentage of players actually want a PvE raid farming end-game. If the developers truly didn't intend to create that kind of game they would have little to lose by saying so in a very blunt and unambiguous manner. If they ARE creating that sort of game it makes sense for them to be circumspect and vague when directly questioned about it.
And as it turns out, when they are directly questioned about it they are unfailingly circumspect and vague.
Again I challenge you to show me just ONE developer quote which clearly states that PvE raiding will confer NO advantage to the people who do it over the people who don't do it.
A.) I think it is much more likely that they are worried if they say raiders don't get any advantages, when people get ingame they will be called liars. Why? Because a "throwing axe of doom" available only from a raid has 0.01% more DPS than other throwing axes.
B.) The only thing they can honestly say is that Raiding does not give any significant advantages, because if there is even one example like the above, rediculous as it is, saying there is no advantage is a lie, even if every other comparable item beats raid crap by a mile.
C.) As I mentioned, they already stated this.
D.) I've posted it at least three times on this forum, you go dig for it yourself. Every time I did post it, you and/or Pantastic either shut up and disappeared or posted pure BS to draw attention away from it. (it mostly was Pan doing the latter).
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
A.) I think it is much more likely that they are worried if they say raiders don't get any advantages, when people get ingame they will be called liars. Why? Because a "throwing axe of doom" available only from a raid has 0.01% more DPS than other throwing axes. Do you have ANYTHING to back that up with? No? Nothing? So you're just tell people what YOU WANT to believe. B.) The only thing they can honestly say is that Raiding does not give any significant advantages, because if there is even one example like the above, rediculous as it is, saying there is no advantage is a lie, even if every other comparable item beats raid crap by a mile. First: the term "significant" is subjective. If they used it I'd like to know what their definition of "significant" is. Second: I don't believe you could even find a quote like that. You and I both know that the best you can offer is a dev using the term "over powering". And that was when the dev himself was ASKING a question, not answering a question. C.) As I mentioned, they already stated this. Let's see the quote. Seriously, prove me wrong if you can. I'm rooting for you to be right, you know. I don't want to be right about this. D.) I've posted it at least three times on this forum, you go dig for it yourself. Every time I did post it, you and/or Pantastic either shut up and disappeared or posted pure BS to draw attention away from it. (it mostly was Pan doing the latter). Well, if you're talking about that long, long thread we were all in; yeah, I got tired of it after a while. I let you guys know I was going to stop posting in it. If you had anything new to offer you could have. You could here for that matter. And we both know that the quote you are refering to is from a dev asking a question, not giving an answer. You're intelligent enough to know that it has no meaning which is why you didn't repost it here. We both know that.
Seriously Aelfinn, what are you clinging to and why do you get upset with me? The AoC devs are jerking you around just as much as anyone. You're a loyal supporter of the game, why won't they give you a straight answer? Remember the long thread on the official boards that started up the last time we talked about this? Remember how the devs kept dodging the questions you guys asked? At some point I would think that you might begin to wonder about that.
Am I bad person because I insist on getting clear answers instead of vague bullsh-t hype? I just want to know what I'm buying before I buy it. If anyone tries to sell me something but won't answer my questions about the product I get suspicious.
And to white: What you posted didn't tell me anything. Can you find any official information about where those gems come from that can be socketed onto items? Where do the best gems come from? Where do the best crafting materials and recipies come from?
Crafted items are all well and good but if you have to farm PvE raids just to make the good crafted items it defeats the whole purpose of it. Then all they are doing is adding one more step to the process before people bid on the items with their DKPs.
The answer of where do you get those resources would be from the Border Kingdom lands. That is what people are fighting over out there. If you own the only battle keep out there, then you will get all the mats for all crafting.
Im leaning towards WAR because DaoC was one of the best if not the best mmo I ever played and im guessing Mythic will not dissappoint with this game. Just by watching all the videos on WAR im quite excited it has some much stuff you can do wither you like PvE or just PvP or if you like both. WAR has world pvp and instanced pvp and sieges on the enimies captial city, you also get xp for killing player so you dont have to do the boreing grind if you dont want to and just PvP if you like, or if you enjoy PvE there are suppost to be really big end game instances and you can explore the enviroment of WAR. Plus you can be a chaos who doesn't want to be a chaos?
AoC looks good as well and it's mainly about PvP and crafting which is a sense to me atleast is really cool being able to harvest and build your own castle and help protect it and I remember reading something that there trying to make it real combat as in aiming where your swings go which will be a cool future.
So bassically both are worth a try they both have very good concepts and they both look really fun to play so just try and get in both betas and see which one you like the most and decied from there .
The answer of where do you get those resources would be from the Border Kingdom lands. That is what people are fighting over out there. If you own the only battle keep out there, then you will get all the mats for all crafting.
Ok, could you show me some official information about this?
I believe that the link to the information about the border kingdom resources is on their official forum FAQ. I did find something on By Mitra that supports your raid craft vs casual craft items:
Friday, September 22, 2006 - Jayde
[quote][size=1][i]Posted by [b]Jayde (Developer)[/b], 22nd of September 2006, in [url=http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=287600#287600]Friday Update 22/09 - Crafting in Age of Conan[/url] [url=http://bymitra.com/search.php?id=10042][color=#333333]r[/color][/url][/i][/size] [quote] Originally Posted by [b]mannix[/b] [URL=showthread.php?s=14832e4a1267bec171b0f3f07af3b08f&p=287582#post287582" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/conan/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" />[/URL] [i]That didn't really clarify anything for me Jayde. We already knew that monsters were going to drop the high level crafting resources, our only question was as to where those monsters were likely to be located. The pessimists say raids, the optimists say raids but raiders will share. That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?[/i][/quote]Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all. I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could. So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both. [/quote]
That didn't really clarify anything for me Jayde. We already knew that monsters were going to drop the high level crafting resources, our only question was as to where those monsters were likely to be located. The pessimists say raids, the optimists say raids but raiders will share.
That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?
Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all.
I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could.
So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both.
I believe that the link to the information about the border kingdom resources is on their official forum FAQ. I did find something on By Mitra that supports your raid craft vs casual craft items:
Friday, September 22, 2006 - Jayde [quote][size=1][i]Posted by [b]Jayde (Developer)[/b], 22nd of September 2006, in [url=http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=287600#287600]Friday Update 22/09 - Crafting in Age of Conan[/url] [url=http://bymitra.com/search.php?id=10042][color=#333333]r[/color][/url][/i][/size] [quote] Originally Posted by [b]mannix[/b] [URL=showthread.php?s=14832e4a1267bec171b0f3f07af3b08f&p=287582#post287582" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/conan/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" />[/URL] [i]That didn't really clarify anything for me Jayde. We already knew that monsters were going to drop the high level crafting resources, our only question was as to where those monsters were likely to be located. The pessimists say raids, the optimists say raids but raiders will share. That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?[/i][/quote]Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all. I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could. So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both. [/quote] Select Friday Update 22/09 - Crafting in Age of Conan
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannix That didn't really clarify anything for me Jayde. We already knew that monsters were going to drop the high level crafting resources, our only question was as to where those monsters were likely to be located. The pessimists say raids, the optimists say raids but raiders will share.
That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?
Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all.
I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could.
So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both.
I think it's a huuuuuge mistake to make crafting materials drops from monsters in raids.
If I was a crafter and I read that, I would immediately start looking for another game. All that means is that instead of gold farming, people are going to be mat farming.
If the best crafted items require mats from raids, then you might as well have the items themselves drop from raids. There's nothing new or innovative about that, just a slight spin on it to make people "think" that they don't have to raid to get the best gear.
I don't like it. I'm still going to try both games, as I think they'll both serve separate purposes for me, but if that's what crafting is going to be in AoC, then I won't like it at all.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
For me it looks like im going to play Aoc but they are 2 potential deal breakers which I don't think will become clear untill closer to release. Th potential deal breakers that will send me running to War are.......
1.)Will I be able to do some decent PVP solo or will I have to be in a big guild.
2.)Will Raids be the only way to get some of the better gear and items? I have nothing againts people wanting to raid, I just personally find them a bit boring and don't like them to be the only way possible to get the better items an gears.
For me it looks like im going to play Aoc but they are 2 potential deal breakers which I don't think will become clear untill closer to release. Th potential deal breakers that will send me running to War are....... 1.)Will I be able to do some decent PVP solo or will I have to be in a big guild. 2.)Will Raids be the only way to get some of the better gear and items? I have nothing againts people wanting to raid, I just personally find them a bit boring and don't like them to be the only way possible to get the better items an gears.
1. There are other places to pvp besides the raids ( and you can still participate in those without a guild ( think hired mercinary ), places like the Arena with 1v1 battles and the like.
2. Raiding gear is supposed to be the best but there are two style of raids. PVE raids where you just get loot drops and PVP raids where you get "blood money" for killing playable characters. The blood money is then traded in for special pvp only skills and pvp equipment. Crafted gear is supposed to be just under raid gear though because they went to make it so items have an impact but skill still plays into it more.
I believe that the link to the information about the border kingdom resources is on their official forum FAQ. I'll admit I didn't do an exhaustive search because I do get a little tired of this after a while. But I did go and look through the FAQ again and I didn't find anything that said materials for the best crafted items come from the border kingdoms. I did find something on By Mitra that supports your raid craft vs casual craft items:
Friday, September 22, 2006 - Jayde [quote][size=1][i]Posted by [b]Jayde (Developer)[/b], 22nd of September 2006, in [url=http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=287600#287600]Friday Update 22/09 - Crafting in Age of Conan[/url] [url=http://bymitra.com/search.php?id=10042][color=#333333]r[/color][/url][/i][/size] [quote] Originally Posted by [b]mannix[/b] [URL=showthread.php?s=14832e4a1267bec171b0f3f07af3b08f&p=287582#post287582" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/conan/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" />[/URL] [i]That didn't really clarify anything for me Jayde. We already knew that monsters were going to drop the high level crafting resources, our only question was as to where those monsters were likely to be located. The pessimists say raids, the optimists say raids but raiders will share. That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?[/i][/quote]Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all. I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could. So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both. [/quote] Select Friday Update 22/09 - Crafting in Age of Conan
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannix That didn't really clarify anything for me Jayde. We already knew that monsters were going to drop the high level crafting resources, our only question was as to where those monsters were likely to be located. The pessimists say raids, the optimists say raids but raiders will share.
That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?
Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all.
I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could.
So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both.
Can you not see why this is a non-answer? It's as vague as a horoscope prediction. It is designed to sound encouraging without commiting to anything while letting people believe whatever they want to believe.
Look at what he says:
"...depends on what the goal is..."
That doesn't tell us anything. I think it's safe to assume that the goal of crafting is always to make the best possible item you can make. The question is what do you have to do to get the materials and recipies you need to make the best items.
"One size does not fit all."
Again, this doesn't tell us anything peritnent about the question at hand.
" I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding..."
Here he's just saying that raiders would bitch if they didn't get the best stuff. Big suprise.
"...and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could."
And here he's saying that non-raiders will bitch if raiders get the best stuff. Another big suprise. Heck this is why the question was being asked of him in the first place.
"So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both."
Now this almost says something but it's so vague it could mean almost anything as pertains to the question. What does "..a touch of both.." mean?
Actually, in the context of the whole text he had just finished talking about complaints so it could just mean a touch of both types of complaints. Raiders complaining that they don't get good enough stuff and non-raiders complaining that raiders get too good stuff.
But I'll extend him the benifit of the doubt and assume that he was at least talking about crafting materials with that last line. Still...what does it really mean? It's so non-specific that it could mean that some materials for the best crafted items are harvested outside of raids but in order to make a finished item those materials have to be combined with materials that do drop in raids.
This would fullfill the statement "a touch of both". So it sounds encouraging for the people who don't want to endlessly farm PvE raids but in the end they wouldn't be able to make anything anyway with just half of the materials they need for crafting.
If you were on my server and wanted to be a crafter, I would gladly supply you with mats from raids because I would rather raid than craft, and you would prefer to craft instead of raid. I do what I like, you do what you like, and my mats supply your needs and in turn you can supply me with things you craft. It all works out.
It is vague but I think they do that to get more hype and speculation, all gaming companies do this though so I didn't expect them to just come out and tell me exact answers. I understand that you are just trying to separate facts from rumors and this is why I am trying to help out and look for links, so that people don't buy this game, thinking it was supposed to be very different.
If you were on my server and wanted to be a crafter, I would gladly supply you with mats from raids because I would rather raid than craft, and you would prefer to craft instead of raid. I do what I like, you do what you like, and my mats supply your needs and in turn you can supply me with things you craft. It all works out.
It's nice of you to say that but we both know it wouldn't work out that way.
First: people in a raiding guild are not going give high end crafting materials to anyone outside of their guild. So If I'm not in a raiding guild I would never once lay my grubby little fingers on any of those materials.
Second: Even if I am in a raiding guild but I don't regularly attend raids then the materials would go to the crafters who DO regularly attend raids.
Third: Even in the unlikely event that a raiding guild did sometimes let me combine high end crafting materials into finished items just to get my skill up it doesn't mean that I would ever be allowed to keep one of those items. The finished items would be distributed to the people who attend raids most often. Probably through some DKP system.
And yeah, you're right that all game companies use vague hype and I understand why. But there have been some pretty strong indications that this game will be heavily based around PvE raiding which is why I occassionally go out of my way to warn people about it.
I understand the devs wanting to draw in as many people as possible. But that is no concern of mine. Just because I understand why they don't want to give clear and concise answers it doesn't mean that I'm going give them a pass on it.
You said:
" I understand that you are just trying to separate facts from rumors and this is why I am trying to help out and look for links, so that people don't buy this game, thinking it was supposed to be very different."
Exactly.
....so that people don't buy this game, thinking it was supposed to be very different...
That's what I'm trying to do. To save people from the disappointment, frustration, and anger that they will feel if they are people who don't want to do PvE raiding a lot but they find themselves in a game that is heavily focused on PvE raiding (which I am convinced AoC will be).
I'm a public benefactor I am.
By the way I don't just pick on AoC. Before WoW was released I saw the writing on the wall and tried to warn people what it's end-game would be like. I don't think many believed me back then either.
I tried to warn people about Vanguards end game.....but that may turn out to be irrelevant given the state of that game and the fact that they haven't even put the end-game content in yet.
Anyway, I don't just do this randomly. I only do it if I am confident that I am correct. And even then it doesn't mean that it will be a bad game. I just want people to go into knowing what to expect.
Comments
They are both going to be real good games....from what I can see now.. everyone will have different tastes, some will love WAR some AoC. And I'm sure there will be some sort of silly little flame war that will result.
Personally I will try AoC first, I enjoy the mature content of the game, and its interesting combat features. If it disappoints me, I will probably try WAR.
Yes you did, you showed that the developers fully intend to give more rewards for a 2-3 hour (the time period they stated their raid designs should take to complete) 40 man raid to kill the demonic servant guarding an ancient temple than a few guys killing a couple giant spiders. Congratulations.
What you continue to fail to show, mention, or even acknowledge, are the quotes that state that several other modes of acquiring equipment will have just as much, if not more, potential. I've showed them to you and Pantastic on multiple occaisions, and niether of you have yet to acknowledge it.
You have never shown me a quote that says that there will be any non-raiding alternative to progression that is equal to raiding.
I challenge you to show me a quote that says there will be small group or solo PvE alternatives to get anything that you can get from raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says you can earn through PvP anything that you can get through PvE raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says that people who do devote themselves to raiding will have NO advantage in PvP.
You know as well as I do that on this issue the best you can do to support your position is to show me a dev quote where the developer answers a question with a question.
And what I'm doing here is not trying to make AoC out to be a terrible game. I'm just trying to let people know what kind of game it will be. Some people really do like the typical raid farming setup. For them it will be great. But people who don't like that have a right to know in advance what sort of game it will be.
I can't really blame the developers for dodging the question when someone asks them directly. They are making the game THEY want to make and sticking to the standard routine when it comes to the end-game. From the time I've spent reading dev posts I think that a big part of the problem is that they simply lack the creativity to imagine anything else. But they know what would happen if they were up front and honest about it. They also know that by the time people hit the end-game it won't matter if they are pissed off because they (the devs) will already have those people's money. And once people have some time invested in a character they usually won't immediately drop a game when they hit that raiding wall. Typically they will hang around for a while even if they are unhappy with the situation.
We all know by now that only a small percentage of players actually want a PvE raid farming end-game. If the developers truly didn't intend to create that kind of game they would have little to lose by saying so in a very blunt and unambiguous manner. If they ARE creating that sort of game it makes sense for them to be circumspect and vague when directly questioned about it.
And as it turns out, when they are directly questioned about it they are unfailingly circumspect and vague.
Again I challenge you to show me just ONE developer quote which clearly states that PvE raiding will confer NO advantage to the people who do it over the people who don't do it.
I'll definitely be trying both. If they're both good, maybe I'll alternate subscriptions between the two on a month by month basis. It's been so long since I've had 2 really good MMOs to choose over at the same time that I'm really looking forward to having this problem!
Now what's new about AoC? Tons! And it looks to be working pretty good. And Funcom is a good developer aswell, honestly anyone with some industry wits should see that Conan will kick WAR ass any day. Of course getin everything they promise right will be hard but then remember it's a MMO, if its not all polished in the start the system will be polished in the future.
Abhinanda from the federation of Annihilation of WAR.. Raise Tabula Rasa and AoC that dares to try something new! If you think WAR looks good just go play WoW instead. Got more patches behind it.
Read all about how the art of crafting will work in Age of Conan, and how player-made items will make a difference.
10. <!--[endif]-->Crafting
10.1 Will there be tradeskills and crafting in Age of Conan?
Yes, definitely. All of the four prestige classes – the Lord, the Commander, the Master and the Crafter – have access to certain crafting classes. The latter, the crafter prestige class, will be the most flexible one when it comes to this, simply because he or she is dedicated to dabble with all the crafting skills available in the game. So yes, there is definitely crafting in the game.
10.2 What sort of crafting skills are there?
There are several different crafting skills available to the prestige classes, and the crafter prestige class will have access to all of them. The crafting skills available are the following:
Weaponsmith
As the name implies, a weaponsmith specializes in making various forms of weaponry for arming those he plans to support in battle. Using techniques passed down for generations, a smith trained in these arts can produce some of the most deadly weapons in Hyboria. In addition to creating arms, this smith may also supply various other forms of weapon enhancement materials, such as whetstones and polishes.
Armorsmith
Similar to the weaponsmith, the armorsmith focuses on crafting various pieces of protective gear in addition to ways to enhance said equipment. Having many avenues available to them in terms of advancement, the armorsmith may choose to provide a very wide variety of armor styles, ranging from leather to full plate.
Gemcutter
Taking advantage of the skills of the armor and weapon smiths, the gemcutter specializes in honing and crafting gems to decorate and enhance equipment. While some gems only have minor effects, others found in crypts or carried by those practicing darker arts may carry strange powers which can be harnessed by the gemcutter’s craft. As the gemcutter is familiar with working with a fresh set of armor or weaponry, they can also provide some more straightforward modifications such as counterweights or other reinforcement.
Alchemist
Trained in various pharmaceutical and metallurgical arts, the Alchemist specializes in creating various compounds with strange and seemingly unnatural effects. Utilizing both common and rare ingredients found around Hyboria, those trained in this art may provide many useful consumables to their allies for use both in and out of battle.
Architect
Concerned more with the “big picture” than simply making equipment or potions, the architect is set on designing the more impressive buildings and siege engines used to wage war in the Border Kingdoms and beyond. Carrying a great burden of responsibility to those he allies himself with, architects facilitate the design of cities as well as devices designed to protect his allies’ assets or destroy his enemy’s.
10.3 How do you perform crafting?
Crafting is tied to different kinds of equipment that you have to use in the process. There are different kinds of establishments and structures – many of which are available to put in the player cities – which players can seek out. These may, for instance, be the smithy where players can practice the art of creating weapons and armor. The crafting system is made to be detailed and complex, yet at the same time be simple and easy to learn. There will be requirements to be met, there will be resources you need to collect in order to make things, and there is equipment that must be used to create the items. But everything will, hopefully, be very self-explanatory.
10.4 How do you become a better craftsman?
There are six tiers of crafted goods in each different crafting school. Each tier is achieved by performing a number of quests for an NPC master crafter. Once all the quests for one tier have been completed you can move onto the next tier.
10.5 Will player-made items be better than other items?
In Conan, the crafted equipment is slated to hold a very special place in the object hierarchy. The player-made items are the only ones where you can insert socket gems - thus increasing their flexibility and adaptability. The question of whether you'll find the best items in dark dungeons or on the player market, is difficult to answer and the best way to put it is probably saying that each will have their advantages and disadvantages. The gem socket system will be very valuable to the player-made items, but at the same time, dark dungeons do tend to have some useful loot.
10.6 Will the item quality depend on the resource quality?
Yes, the item quality will depend on statistics and on the materials being used, yes. That way items made from quality resources will be of better quality than others.
10.7 Will craftsmen be able to make anything other than items?
Yes, they will be able to make siege engines such as catapults and trebuchets that can be used in battles, and those who master the architect skill will also be able to create buildings and place them in the player city. The craftsmen of Hyboria have incredible power when it comes to shaping the environments and the lives of people who live there.
10.8 Is it possible to just be a crafter and nothing else?
No, you will need to advance in level as well. The Crafter is a prestige class, and prestige classes do not open up until later in the game after you've selected an archetype at level 5 and a class at level 20. The crafting prestige class – or any of the other prestige classes that also can master one or two crafting skills – are supplements to your main class, so you will still have to choose to be something else. That being said, once you've obtained the prestige class, there is nothing stopping you from just dedicating your life to making things. Advancement in the crafter prestige classes is done by finishing quests.
Read all about what sort of equipment your character and use in Age of Conan, and how it all works.
12.0 Equipment
12.1 What sort of equipment will players be able to obtain?
Just about anything you can think of. When it comes to weapons, you will for instance be able to wield swords, axes, clubs, bows, lances and much more. You'll also be able to equip yourself with defensive equipment such as armor and shields, and when we're already talking about armor, it should be noted that there will be a vast variety of these in Age of Conan. Every race has their specific armor sets, and there are a lot of different ones to choose from.
12.2 Will there be any items or equipment not related to combat?
Yes, of course. Furniture for instance – these are items that can be placed in the houses you build in your player city – and you will also be able to buy different of clothing, jewelry and so on. We know how important the social aspects of a MMO is, and try our best to cater for this in the game.
12.3 Can anyone use any type of armor or weapon?
No, the ability to equip items is based on the feats you have obtained. Age of Conan is largely based around a system of feats which you obtain over the course of the game. And while equipment will not be class-specific, it will be feat-specific. It should be noted the certain feats can only be obtained by certain classes. So you will, for instance, need a special feat to wear plate armor or wield certain types of weapons. Not all players can earn every feat, so there is a system of controlling who have access to what. But there is more than enough for everyone.
12.4 Will items decay over time?
No, as of now there are no plans to have item decay in the game. This may or may not be tweaked through testing as it’s essential for MMOs to have “money sinks” to keep a stable and fair economy.
12.5 Will players be able to make their own equipment?
Yes, there is a complete crafting system in the game. Players can create all sorts of items, and player-made equipment is especially valuable because they are the only ones that can be fitted with special gems that give the character benefits in combat. Whether or not the best equipment is made or found out in the wild is difficult to answer, but we're aiming for the middle-road where there will be advantages and disadvantages to both. Please see the Crafting chapter for more information.
12.6 Will there be different kinds of item quality?
Yes, absolutely. Items come in different levels of quality, something which is especially true when it comes to player-made items which can be made from materials and resources which also have different levels of quality. Statistics like damage output is very much dependent on item quality.
12.7 If the combat system is largely based on human skill, what do weapon statistics do?
The aspect of human skill is only one part of the combat system. Even though you direct your attacks and do the strikes yourself, you are still dependent on the weapon you use being good enough both in terms of quality and statistics. How and where you strike may be up to you, but the statistics bound to the weapon you're using is determining how much damage you're dealing.
12.8 Will there be dual-wielding?
We are planning on including dual-wielding, yes, but we're not ready to go into details on this.
12.9 How will equipment relate to races and nations in the game?
In general we're not planning to include any specific equipment which can only be worn by one race. As for the styles of equipment such as weapons and armor, there will be a multitude of different styles both when it comes to the graphical representations of them, how they actually work and where they can be found. There will be regional looks to generic equipment for all the three nations Aquilonia, Cimmeria and Stygia, and there will also be different looks depending on the culture the equipment originates from.
That aside, Im looking forward to AoC a bit stronger due to amazingly beautiful and realistic books that AoC's lore is based on. But WAR is not too far behind, i was impressed by the trailer and WAR's features are impressive. Now I only hope all those promised features are implemented the way I like it. For both games.Otherwise we are gonna end up with broken AoC and WAR limping alongside Vanguard with a great but unfulfilled vision.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
If Blizzard would have designed WoW2, I would imagine it would have looked a lot like what WAR looks to be. Just an opinion FYI.
But, I'm still torn between the two for 3 reasons. First, like I said, I'm Warhammer fanboi. Second, Funcom's leetskillz of removing lag and bugs, playing AO has teached that (/sarcasm off). Third, system requirements. Conan may very well trip over the same way Vanguard has done. This is not a huge issue for me personally, but I don't want to play in a half-empty world because 95% of world MMO players can't run it. Not saying that it will be any better in WAR, but for that it's too early to even make a guess.
You have never shown me a quote that says that there will be any non-raiding alternative to progression that is equal to raiding.
I challenge you to show me a quote that says there will be small group or solo PvE alternatives to get anything that you can get from raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says you can earn through PvP anything that you can get through PvE raiding. I challenge you to show me a quote that says that people who do devote themselves to raiding will have NO advantage in PvP.
You know as well as I do that on this issue the best you can do to support your position is to show me a dev quote where the developer answers a question with a question.
And what I'm doing here is not trying to make AoC out to be a terrible game. I'm just trying to let people know what kind of game it will be. Some people really do like the typical raid farming setup. For them it will be great. But people who don't like that have a right to know in advance what sort of game it will be.
I can't really blame the developers for dodging the question when someone asks them directly. They are making the game THEY want to make and sticking to the standard routine when it comes to the end-game. From the time I've spent reading dev posts I think that a big part of the problem is that they simply lack the creativity to imagine anything else. But they know what would happen if they were up front and honest about it. They also know that by the time people hit the end-game it won't matter if they are pissed off because they (the devs) will already have those people's money. And once people have some time invested in a character they usually won't immediately drop a game when they hit that raiding wall. Typically they will hang around for a while even if they are unhappy with the situation.
We all know by now that only a small percentage of players actually want a PvE raid farming end-game. If the developers truly didn't intend to create that kind of game they would have little to lose by saying so in a very blunt and unambiguous manner. If they ARE creating that sort of game it makes sense for them to be circumspect and vague when directly questioned about it.
And as it turns out, when they are directly questioned about it they are unfailingly circumspect and vague.
Again I challenge you to show me just ONE developer quote which clearly states that PvE raiding will confer NO advantage to the people who do it over the people who don't do it.
A.) I think it is much more likely that they are worried if they say raiders don't get any advantages, when people get ingame they will be called liars. Why? Because a "throwing axe of doom" available only from a raid has 0.01% more DPS than other throwing axes.
B.) The only thing they can honestly say is that Raiding does not give any significant advantages, because if there is even one example like the above, rediculous as it is, saying there is no advantage is a lie, even if every other comparable item beats raid crap by a mile.
C.) As I mentioned, they already stated this.
D.) I've posted it at least three times on this forum, you go dig for it yourself. Every time I did post it, you and/or Pantastic either shut up and disappeared or posted pure BS to draw attention away from it. (it mostly was Pan doing the latter).
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Seriously Aelfinn, what are you clinging to and why do you get upset with me? The AoC devs are jerking you around just as much as anyone. You're a loyal supporter of the game, why won't they give you a straight answer? Remember the long thread on the official boards that started up the last time we talked about this? Remember how the devs kept dodging the questions you guys asked? At some point I would think that you might begin to wonder about that.
Am I bad person because I insist on getting clear answers instead of vague bullsh-t hype? I just want to know what I'm buying before I buy it. If anyone tries to sell me something but won't answer my questions about the product I get suspicious.
And to white: What you posted didn't tell me anything. Can you find any official information about where those gems come from that can be socketed onto items? Where do the best gems come from? Where do the best crafting materials and recipies come from?
Crafted items are all well and good but if you have to farm PvE raids just to make the good crafted items it defeats the whole purpose of it. Then all they are doing is adding one more step to the process before people bid on the items with their DKPs.
The answer of where do you get those resources would be from the Border Kingdom lands. That is what people are fighting over out there. If you own the only battle keep out there, then you will get all the mats for all crafting.
Im leaning towards WAR because DaoC was one of the best if not the best mmo I ever played and im guessing Mythic will not dissappoint with this game. Just by watching all the videos on WAR im quite excited it has some much stuff you can do wither you like PvE or just PvP or if you like both. WAR has world pvp and instanced pvp and sieges on the enimies captial city, you also get xp for killing player so you dont have to do the boreing grind if you dont want to and just PvP if you like, or if you enjoy PvE there are suppost to be really big end game instances and you can explore the enviroment of WAR. Plus you can be a chaos who doesn't want to be a chaos?
AoC looks good as well and it's mainly about PvP and crafting which is a sense to me atleast is really cool being able to harvest and build your own castle and help protect it and I remember reading something that there trying to make it real combat as in aiming where your swings go which will be a cool future.
So bassically both are worth a try they both have very good concepts and they both look really fun to play so just try and get in both betas and see which one you like the most and decied from there
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Ok, could you show me some official information about this?
I believe that the link to the information about the border kingdom resources is on their official forum FAQ. I did find something on By Mitra that supports your raid craft vs casual craft items:
Friday, September 22, 2006 - Jayde
[quote] Originally Posted by [b]mannix[/b]
[URL=showthread.php?s=14832e4a1267bec171b0f3f07af3b08f&p=287582#post287582" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/conan/buttons/viewpost.gif" border="0" alt="View Post" />[/URL] [i]That didn't really clarify anything for me Jayde. We already knew that monsters were going to drop the high level crafting resources, our only question was as to where those monsters were likely to be located. The pessimists say raids, the optimists say raids but raiders will share.
That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?[/i][/quote]Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all.
I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could.
So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both. [/quote]
Friday Update 22/09 - Crafting in Age of Conan
That's really the big question: where are these mobs going to be more often than not?
Highly depends on what the goal is with each particular recipe. One size does not fit all.
I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding Toth-Amon's secret stash, and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could.
So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both.
If I was a crafter and I read that, I would immediately start looking for another game. All that means is that instead of gold farming, people are going to be mat farming.
If the best crafted items require mats from raids, then you might as well have the items themselves drop from raids. There's nothing new or innovative about that, just a slight spin on it to make people "think" that they don't have to raid to get the best gear.
I don't like it. I'm still going to try both games, as I think they'll both serve separate purposes for me, but if that's what crafting is going to be in AoC, then I won't like it at all.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
For me it looks like im going to play Aoc but they are 2 potential deal breakers which I don't think will become clear untill closer to release. Th potential deal breakers that will send me running to War are.......
1.)Will I be able to do some decent PVP solo or will I have to be in a big guild.
2.)Will Raids be the only way to get some of the better gear and items? I have nothing againts people wanting to raid, I just personally find them a bit boring and don't like them to be the only way possible to get the better items an gears.
1. There are other places to pvp besides the raids ( and you can still participate in those without a guild ( think hired mercinary ), places like the Arena with 1v1 battles and the like.
2. Raiding gear is supposed to be the best but there are two style of raids. PVE raids where you just get loot drops and PVP raids where you get "blood money" for killing playable characters. The blood money is then traded in for special pvp only skills and pvp equipment. Crafted gear is supposed to be just under raid gear though because they went to make it so items have an impact but skill still plays into it more.
Can you not see why this is a non-answer? It's as vague as a horoscope prediction. It is designed to sound encouraging without commiting to anything while letting people believe whatever they want to believe.
Look at what he says:
"...depends on what the goal is..."
That doesn't tell us anything. I think it's safe to assume that the goal of crafting is always to make the best possible item you can make. The question is what do you have to do to get the materials and recipies you need to make the best items.
"One size does not fit all."
Again, this doesn't tell us anything peritnent about the question at hand.
" I'm pretty sure that there will be raiding crafters that would complain if they couldn't get anything cool to craft after raiding..."
Here he's just saying that raiders would bitch if they didn't get the best stuff. Big suprise.
"...and non-raiding crafters that would complain if you could."
And here he's saying that non-raiders will bitch if raiders get the best stuff. Another big suprise. Heck this is why the question was being asked of him in the first place.
"So, in the end, we will probably have a touch of both."
Now this almost says something but it's so vague it could mean almost anything as pertains to the question. What does "..a touch of both.." mean?
Actually, in the context of the whole text he had just finished talking about complaints so it could just mean a touch of both types of complaints. Raiders complaining that they don't get good enough stuff and non-raiders complaining that raiders get too good stuff.
But I'll extend him the benifit of the doubt and assume that he was at least talking about crafting materials with that last line. Still...what does it really mean? It's so non-specific that it could mean that some materials for the best crafted items are harvested outside of raids but in order to make a finished item those materials have to be combined with materials that do drop in raids.
This would fullfill the statement "a touch of both". So it sounds encouraging for the people who don't want to endlessly farm PvE raids but in the end they wouldn't be able to make anything anyway with just half of the materials they need for crafting.
If you were on my server and wanted to be a crafter, I would gladly supply you with mats from raids because I would rather raid than craft, and you would prefer to craft instead of raid. I do what I like, you do what you like, and my mats supply your needs and in turn you can supply me with things you craft. It all works out.
It is vague but I think they do that to get more hype and speculation, all gaming companies do this though so I didn't expect them to just come out and tell me exact answers. I understand that you are just trying to separate facts from rumors and this is why I am trying to help out and look for links, so that people don't buy this game, thinking it was supposed to be very different.
It's nice of you to say that but we both know it wouldn't work out that way.
First: people in a raiding guild are not going give high end crafting materials to anyone outside of their guild. So If I'm not in a raiding guild I would never once lay my grubby little fingers on any of those materials.
Second: Even if I am in a raiding guild but I don't regularly attend raids then the materials would go to the crafters who DO regularly attend raids.
Third: Even in the unlikely event that a raiding guild did sometimes let me combine high end crafting materials into finished items just to get my skill up it doesn't mean that I would ever be allowed to keep one of those items. The finished items would be distributed to the people who attend raids most often. Probably through some DKP system.
And yeah, you're right that all game companies use vague hype and I understand why. But there have been some pretty strong indications that this game will be heavily based around PvE raiding which is why I occassionally go out of my way to warn people about it.
I understand the devs wanting to draw in as many people as possible. But that is no concern of mine. Just because I understand why they don't want to give clear and concise answers it doesn't mean that I'm going give them a pass on it.
You said:
" I understand that you are just trying to separate facts from rumors and this is why I am trying to help out and look for links, so that people don't buy this game, thinking it was supposed to be very different."
Exactly.
....so that people don't buy this game, thinking it was supposed to be very different...
That's what I'm trying to do. To save people from the disappointment, frustration, and anger that they will feel if they are people who don't want to do PvE raiding a lot but they find themselves in a game that is heavily focused on PvE raiding (which I am convinced AoC will be).
I'm a public benefactor I am.
By the way I don't just pick on AoC. Before WoW was released I saw the writing on the wall and tried to warn people what it's end-game would be like. I don't think many believed me back then either.
I tried to warn people about Vanguards end game.....but that may turn out to be irrelevant given the state of that game and the fact that they haven't even put the end-game content in yet.
Anyway, I don't just do this randomly. I only do it if I am confident that I am correct. And even then it doesn't mean that it will be a bad game. I just want people to go into knowing what to expect.