This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
Actually, WOW already has solved this problem, (albeit I won't say it was by intelligent design). Truth is, you don't need to group with anyone in WOW while you level up. Sure, its nice to grab some gear in Mauaradon or Stratholme, but you don't need to go there. Its quite possible (in fact, even easy) for every class to level up to 70 solo.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.
It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Actually, think of this possibility. Will Brad be around to help sponsor and create an expansion? And, to be honest why would we be thinking expansion when the original needs so much correcting.
Fix what's broken now, then after a year, we can discuss expansion possibilities.
Another "crystal ball"...will Vanguard have enough subscribers to afford creation and production of another expansion?
Anyone have a cost estimate on what it would take to create an expansion?
All we know is that Brad was quoted more than half a year ago saying Sigil needed 200-300k subscribers to maintain a healthy company with an expansion team, profiting sharing and all of that. Of course Sigil is far from having that, but even more unsettling, Brad said that before he figured out the company was running out of money and would have to release early...which doesn't bode well for his ability to estimate.
Anyway, for the "second most expensive MMO ever" with a hundred times less subscribers than the most expensive MMO ever...I wouldn't be overly optimistic about what kind of expansion Vanguard could bring out, if any.
Of course, Vanguard is an SOE published product, and with SOE in charge of marketing and actually selling the game, I doubt they'd mind putting out 1-2 a year if Sigil managed to pony up the money and resources to actually develop the expansions.
Considering we're still without things like helms, an entire trade skill and two classes intended for the game after a three month period...I doubt they could release an expansion worthwhile on an every six-months or yearly basis if their pace so far is any indication. Oh so very true. I would wager a guess that production of an expansion will be in the millions of dollars. Unless SOE adds the money, I'm too sure an expansion can be made.
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
Actually, WOW already has solved this problem, (albeit I won't say it was by intelligent design). Truth is, you don't need to group with anyone in WOW while you level up. Sure, its nice to grab some gear in Mauaradon or Stratholme, but you don't need to go there. Its quite possible (in fact, even easy) for every class to level up to 70 solo.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.
It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
Actually, WOW already has solved this problem, (albeit I won't say it was by intelligent design). Truth is, you don't need to group with anyone in WOW while you level up. Sure, its nice to grab some gear in Mauaradon or Stratholme, but you don't need to go there. Its quite possible (in fact, even easy) for every class to level up to 70 solo.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.
It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you NEVER group?? ffs lol
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping. I mean... wtf?
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
Actually, WOW already has solved this problem, (albeit I won't say it was by intelligent design). Truth is, you don't need to group with anyone in WOW while you level up. Sure, its nice to grab some gear in Mauaradon or Stratholme, but you don't need to go there. Its quite possible (in fact, even easy) for every class to level up to 70 solo.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.
It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you solo 90% of the time?
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
id hate to agree but when I was in the guild we barely grouped. grouping is was sparse in general, and very difficult to orchestrate a group for any given quest or xp run. I believe that an expansion shouldnt even run through anyones mind until the core game is fixed, enhanced, and improved to the point that it should of been. that includes squashing the gamebreaking bugs, improve the LFG (though im sure even this wont help), well simply put fix the damn game before making an expansion, if they did try to make an expansion id laugh my ass off and write them off as a unprofessional protaganistic company who only wants to make money fast and not do anything to earn it. well they kinda already done that to some degree. as far as im concerned this game is snowballing into something , and it isnt good.the future for this game is not good. but at the same time this game is ver group centric as ive had no choice but to go thru mobs that were 3 and 4 dots in order to finish a specific quest, even when it was labeled "solo' sorry to say this game is very forced on grouping, yet grouping is actually pretty difficult. either way u slice it this game is going into something bad.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
Actually, WOW already has solved this problem, (albeit I won't say it was by intelligent design). Truth is, you don't need to group with anyone in WOW while you level up. Sure, its nice to grab some gear in Mauaradon or Stratholme, but you don't need to go there. Its quite possible (in fact, even easy) for every class to level up to 70 solo.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.
It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you solo 90% of the time?
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
Some people really think in a box..don't they...
There is more to mmorpg game play than killing and adventuring. You talk about arcade gamer? ....sounds like you are one to talk. Remember....there is crafting, harvesting, diplomacy...and whatever else our minds can think of. It's a big sand box...you can play as you see fit..build what you want to build. Do what you want to do.
As if you must know...The main reason I do not group alot is that my kids and wife mean more to me than anyone I'm grouped with. Though I do spend alot of time in game I often have to AFK at a moments notice. It's not easy being a gamer dad....suffice to say..I would not....CAN NOT...play a game that requires excessive grouping to experience any good game play.
In addition...running a guild means one gets lots and lots of personal tell action. I am always in tells with members or talking to someone interested in joining. At least it should...if you want a good size , healthy guild.
This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
Actually, WOW already has solved this problem, (albeit I won't say it was by intelligent design). Truth is, you don't need to group with anyone in WOW while you level up. Sure, its nice to grab some gear in Mauaradon or Stratholme, but you don't need to go there. Its quite possible (in fact, even easy) for every class to level up to 70 solo.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.
It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you solo 90% of the time?
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
Some people really think in a box..don't they...
There is more to mmorpg game play than killing and adventuring. You talk about arcade gamer? ....sounds like you are one to talk. Remember....there is crafting, harvesting, diplomacy...and whatever else our minds can think of. It's a big sand box...you can play as you see fit..build what you want to build. Do what you want to do.
As if you must know...The main reason I do not group alot is that my kids and wife mean more to me than anyone I'm grouped with. Though I do spend alot of time in game I often have to AFK at a moments notice. It's not easy being a gamer dad....suffice to say..I would not....CAN NOT...play a game that requires excessive grouping to experience any good game play.
In addition...running a guild means one gets lots and lots of personal tell action. I am always in tells with members or talking to someone interested in joining. At least it should...if you want a good size , healthy guild.
Think outside the tiny box of the adventuring
My problem in this case isnt about soloing...
I was dumb founded why you would LEAD a guild and solo...
Running a guild requires you to actually talk to the guild? Well.. really? wow... yeah I guess it would... and to think other guild leaders do it AND manage to group with their members... boy...
One big reason why I do not group much is BECAUSE I am a guild leader. It's difficult if not near impossible to raid and manage several tells/chats at one time.....combined with the parant thing. I don't need to see our members to manage a guild...they don't need to see me to have fun in a game either. You must have only played in the powerplaying type guilds where the only objective is to get as many levels as they can...as fast as they can...usually stepping on several other players along the way.
Man..I gotta paint a picture here? One big reason why I do not group much is BECAUSE I am a guild leader. It's difficult if not near impossible to raid and manage several tells/chats at one time.....combined with the parant thing. I don't need to see our members to manage a guild...they don't need to see me to have fun in a game either. You must have only played in the powerplaying type guilds where the only objective is to get as many levels as they can...as fast as they can...usually stepping on several other players along the way.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
Man..I gotta paint a picture here? One big reason why I do not group much is BECAUSE I am a guild leader. It's difficult if not near impossible to raid and manage several tells/chats at one time.....combined with the parant thing. I don't need to see our members to manage a guild...they don't need to see me to have fun in a game either. You must have only played in the powerplaying type guilds where the only objective is to get as many levels as they can...as fast as they can...usually stepping on several other players along the way.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
I know where you are coming from here but I also can see what Thamoris is saying. I think running a guild is different now in the post-WoW era. Yes, in EQ1 the Guild Leader job was to lead the troops on the field mainly because EQ1 was a forced grouping game. That is why many Guild Leaders were Tanks. Typically Tanks are the Leaders of a particular group or raid.
Times have changed so it is indeed possible that the people in Thamoris' guild do not even want to group all the time. This is a different era. The EQ1 comradery is gone and missed greatly. However, due to RL now and the expectations of WoW that has changed.
From his posts Thamoris seems like he would make a fine Guild Leader so I don't think we can judge him there.
Expansion ?? !! He's at the helm of the Titanic.There has been no acknowlegement of the games deficiencies(in basic design or implementation).You think there is a population problem now...wait till a year from now.
Funny that you mention helms....since there are no graphics for any in game currently.
But on topic, I agree with the OP's statement. The next wave of things they need to focus on are more casual friendly things like travel times, and group mechanics and such.
This was my original point, and the reason I originally wrote...
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
The point I was trying to get across is that guild leaders that don't even group are, to me, the death of the MMORPG and embodiment of the MMOA (arcade) solo casual McDonalds no social demands/ investment game.
Man..I gotta paint a picture here? One big reason why I do not group much is BECAUSE I am a guild leader. It's difficult if not near impossible to raid and manage several tells/chats at one time.....combined with the parant thing. I don't need to see our members to manage a guild...they don't need to see me to have fun in a game either. You must have only played in the powerplaying type guilds where the only objective is to get as many levels as they can...as fast as they can...usually stepping on several other players along the way.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
First...it's a guild..not a cult.
Your words indicate that you did indeed belong to power guilds....you may not have known it, but join a casual guild and you will see the difference. Not that anything is wrong with power guilds mind ya...I've known several that had mostly good players..nice folks. I've also know alot more that have really griefed alot of people.
I help everyone that asks or find help for them. Our guild is healthy and full of good, independant people. They don't need me to hold their hand. They know if they need help they can pst me anytimes and I will help them best I can. Since many of our members are parents too...they understand the " i can't help because my kid just fell and cracked his skull open ...afk ". I never said I never do groups. If you are going to quote and attack me...at least don't put words into my mouth ( posts ). I don't even know why I am bothering to defend myself , my gameplay, or my guild to a complete stranger on a public forums ? Perhaps I find it amusing ..combined with the fact I refuse to let people take my words out of context and exagerate a situation simply to try and grief another poster. I am not griefed...in the end..what you think means no difference at all to me.
Our guild is more like a community. There is no " stepping down "...because I never " steped up ". There are ranks..but they aren't military in nature..........anyways
Lets return to the topic of this thread...last time I checked this thread is not about me...or you.....and I grow bored of your attempts to flame bait and troll me.
Man..I gotta paint a picture here? One big reason why I do not group much is BECAUSE I am a guild leader. It's difficult if not near impossible to raid and manage several tells/chats at one time.....combined with the parant thing. I don't need to see our members to manage a guild...they don't need to see me to have fun in a game either. You must have only played in the powerplaying type guilds where the only objective is to get as many levels as they can...as fast as they can...usually stepping on several other players along the way.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
First...it's a guild..not a cult.
Your words indicate that you did indeed belong to power guilds....you may not have known it, but join a casual guild and you will see the difference. Not that anything is wrong with power guilds mind ya...I've known several that had mostly good players..nice folks. I've also know alot more that have really griefed alot of people.
I help everyone that asks or find help for them. Our guild is healthy and full of good, independant people. They don't need me to hold their hand. They know if they need help they can pst me anytimes and I will help them best I can. Since many of our members are parents too...they understand the " i can't help because my kid just fell and cracked his skull open ...afk ". I never said I never do groups. If you are going to quote and attack me...at least don't put words into my mouth ( posts ). I don't even know why I am bothering to defend myself , my gameplay, or my guild to a complete stranger on a public forums ? Perhaps I find it amusing ..combined with the fact I refuse to let people take my words out of context and exagerate a situation simply to try and grief another poster. I am not griefed...in the end..what you think means no difference at all to me.
Our guild is more like a community. There is no " stepping down "...because I never " steped up ". There are ranks..but they aren't military in nature..........anyways
Lets return to the topic of this thread...last time I checked this thread is not about me...or you.....and I grow bored of your attempts to flame bait and troll me.
lol ok, fair enough, i guess you know more about me then I do. Fair enough, your spot on, and everything I have clarified to you is incorrect. I have been in 'casual' guilds from day one... I dont raid and I even solo. But you know me better then that right? hehe ok.
It's just that I believe that a guild is more then a social chat channel. Why you are even in one, let alone leading one, is beyond me tbh, but good luck to you and yours.
At least you post your PC/ guild name so I know to never bother joining your 'guild' of self professed loners.
No wonder these games no longer have communities or, indeed, a soul.
Man..I gotta paint a picture here? One big reason why I do not group much is BECAUSE I am a guild leader. It's difficult if not near impossible to raid and manage several tells/chats at one time.....combined with the parant thing. I don't need to see our members to manage a guild...they don't need to see me to have fun in a game either. You must have only played in the powerplaying type guilds where the only objective is to get as many levels as they can...as fast as they can...usually stepping on several other players along the way.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
First...it's a guild..not a cult.
Your words indicate that you did indeed belong to power guilds....you may not have known it, but join a casual guild and you will see the difference. Not that anything is wrong with power guilds mind ya...I've known several that had mostly good players..nice folks. I've also know alot more that have really griefed alot of people.
I help everyone that asks or find help for them. Our guild is healthy and full of good, independant people. They don't need me to hold their hand. They know if they need help they can pst me anytimes and I will help them best I can. Since many of our members are parents too...they understand the " i can't help because my kid just fell and cracked his skull open ...afk ". I never said I never do groups. If you are going to quote and attack me...at least don't put words into my mouth ( posts ). I don't even know why I am bothering to defend myself , my gameplay, or my guild to a complete stranger on a public forums ? Perhaps I find it amusing ..combined with the fact I refuse to let people take my words out of context and exagerate a situation simply to try and grief another poster. I am not griefed...in the end..what you think means no difference at all to me.
Our guild is more like a community. There is no " stepping down "...because I never " steped up ". There are ranks..but they aren't military in nature..........anyways
Lets return to the topic of this thread...last time I checked this thread is not about me...or you.....and I grow bored of your attempts to flame bait and troll me.
lol ok, fair enough, i guess you know more about me then I do. Fair enough, your spot on, and everything I have clarified to you is incorrect. I have been in 'casual' guilds from day one... I dont raid and I even solo. But you know me better then that right? hehe ok.
It's just that I believe that a guild is more then a social chat channel. Why you are even in one, let alone leading one, is beyond me tbh, but good luck to you and yours.
At least you post your PC/ guild name so I know to never bother joining your 'guild' of self professed loners.
No wonder these games no longer have communities or, indeed, a soul.
You know..I don't know you....BUT...I imply from you own words that you think a guild is about what it does for its members or what its members are doing for the guild. We belong to neither school...we are a group of like minded gamers who enjoy playing the games we play. We support and encourage eachother...sometimes people group..sometimes not. Playing online is about freedom for us..members may choose to play as they see fit. Our guild does not serve its members...nor do our members serve the guild. Just a bunch of peeps playing games online and having fun..be it solo..be it grouping..be it harvesting, crafting or in diplomacy.
All I am trying to say is it SOUNDS like..based on your posts...that you have a narrow viewpoint on how you precieve a guild should be run. I encourage you to perhaps..expand your horizons and understand that their are many different good ways to manage a guild. Our guild goes beyond the game for those that wish even...guild forums, phone conversations...some members have even met in real life and shared dinner. I frequently speak with members about real life issues and try to help them out that way too.
Like I said..it's more of a community of gamers than it is a " guild ".....there..I've blessed you with enough of my time. It's time to go play some Vanguard.
This problem is compounded in mmos because when a game launches, tens of thousands of people show up all at once, making a honeymoon period for grouping. There are people everywhere! Then those people start advancing, albeit at varying paces, but as they advance they leave behind lower to mid level zones, which become less and less populated. Even WoW, with its vaunted 9 million subscribers, features many older zones which have now become virtual graveyards.
Actually, WOW already has solved this problem, (albeit I won't say it was by intelligent design). Truth is, you don't need to group with anyone in WOW while you level up. Sure, its nice to grab some gear in Mauaradon or Stratholme, but you don't need to go there. Its quite possible (in fact, even easy) for every class to level up to 70 solo.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.
It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
10% is your estimation, and you're basing it upon content that you've run into from your personal play experience. If you're soloing all the time, naturally you aren't at the bottom of dungeons riddled with four-dots if you're solo, so it kind of goes without saying that 90% of the content you've run into is reasonably going to be overland solo content.
Anyway, it was Sigil's aim to divide the game up with 60% grouping content, 20% solo and 20% raid. That said, I don't believe at all that things panned out like that exactly...especially considering raid content doesn't really exist (not that it's possible given performance issues anyway).
What's important is their design methodology though. You're one of the persons who believe Sigil is going to be able to get the game in the exact shape that they want given time, right? So why believe that this won't be primarily a "grouping" game when it's Sigil's aim? You should harbor that thought as much as you harbor the idea that this game will have rectified a lot of it's issues a few months down the line.
So again, grouping isn't "forced", but grouping is the focus for Vanguard. Just like soloing is the focus for World of Warcraft when levelling. Grouping to gain experience in World of Warcraft makes as much sense as soloing to gain experience in Vanguard (ideally on Sigil's part anyway).
I'm not arguing with you about the current state of things. Grouping content is certainly lacking, and soloing is more viable with low population circumstances and other things. It still doesn't change the fact that it was Sigil's intention though, and if you're optimistic at all, you should only expect grouping incentives to expand.
I gotta believe there are a bunch of things the vsoh's dev team could do to try to improve turnout, and grouping, besides funnelling development time, and monetary resources, towards an expansion. Varying suggestions include:
1) Fixing bugs so game runs smoothly.
2) Better LFG tools
3) More content in underused "zones"/better travel to "zones"
4) Making sure the billing issue is fixed
5) Lowering the monthly fee (even to 0?)
6) Dynamic live events, promoted both in game and on different sites
7) Getting re-reviews at the six month mark, if the game is more stable and clean
8) Merging underpopulated servers
9) Website run by company, with open forums
10) Better promotions through media.
Now, that's not to say any of the above will make the game more popular, or make grouping easier. But, they are proactive steps that could help in the short run....as opposed to diverting precious resources to an expansion that would be about a year away.
1. I feel it was commendable that just before launch Brad said he was 'pulling everyone off' the expansion so that they could focus on fixing the ***** in the main game. You have to ask though, if the statement why it wasn't this done months before launch?
Or was it just spiel and there was no one there anyway?
And if the people didn't have the right skills then what was a company in financial trouble doing with them? Why was it spending money on an expansion?
Comments
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Anyway, for the "second most expensive MMO ever" with a hundred times less subscribers than the most expensive MMO ever...I wouldn't be overly optimistic about what kind of expansion Vanguard could bring out, if any.
Of course, Vanguard is an SOE published product, and with SOE in charge of marketing and actually selling the game, I doubt they'd mind putting out 1-2 a year if Sigil managed to pony up the money and resources to actually develop the expansions.
Considering we're still without things like helms, an entire trade skill and two classes intended for the game after a three month period...I doubt they could release an expansion worthwhile on an every six-months or yearly basis if their pace so far is any indication. Oh so very true. I would wager a guess that production of an expansion will be in the millions of dollars. Unless SOE adds the money, I'm too sure an expansion can be made.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you NEVER group?? ffs lol
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping. I mean... wtf?
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you solo 90% of the time?
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
id hate to agree but when I was in the guild we barely grouped. grouping is was sparse in general, and very difficult to orchestrate a group for any given quest or xp run. I believe that an expansion shouldnt even run through anyones mind until the core game is fixed, enhanced, and improved to the point that it should of been. that includes squashing the gamebreaking bugs, improve the LFG (though im sure even this wont help), well simply put fix the damn game before making an expansion, if they did try to make an expansion id laugh my ass off and write them off as a unprofessional protaganistic company who only wants to make money fast and not do anything to earn it. well they kinda already done that to some degree. as far as im concerned this game is snowballing into something , and it isnt good.the future for this game is not good. but at the same time this game is ver group centric as ive had no choice but to go thru mobs that were 3 and 4 dots in order to finish a specific quest, even when it was labeled "solo' sorry to say this game is very forced on grouping, yet grouping is actually pretty difficult. either way u slice it this game is going into something bad.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you solo 90% of the time?
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
Some people really think in a box..don't they...
There is more to mmorpg game play than killing and adventuring. You talk about arcade gamer? ....sounds like you are one to talk. Remember....there is crafting, harvesting, diplomacy...and whatever else our minds can think of. It's a big sand box...you can play as you see fit..build what you want to build. Do what you want to do.
As if you must know...The main reason I do not group alot is that my kids and wife mean more to me than anyone I'm grouped with. Though I do spend alot of time in game I often have to AFK at a moments notice. It's not easy being a gamer dad....suffice to say..I would not....CAN NOT...play a game that requires excessive grouping to experience any good game play.
In addition...running a guild means one gets lots and lots of personal tell action. I am always in tells with members or talking to someone interested in joining. At least it should...if you want a good size , healthy guild.
Think outside the tiny box of the adventuring
Im sorry I had to go back and edit my post after rereading the quoted poster again...
Im just gob smacked that an actual guild leader never groups...
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
You are the leader of a guild in VG and you solo 90% of the time?
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
Some people really think in a box..don't they...
There is more to mmorpg game play than killing and adventuring. You talk about arcade gamer? ....sounds like you are one to talk. Remember....there is crafting, harvesting, diplomacy...and whatever else our minds can think of. It's a big sand box...you can play as you see fit..build what you want to build. Do what you want to do.
As if you must know...The main reason I do not group alot is that my kids and wife mean more to me than anyone I'm grouped with. Though I do spend alot of time in game I often have to AFK at a moments notice. It's not easy being a gamer dad....suffice to say..I would not....CAN NOT...play a game that requires excessive grouping to experience any good game play.
In addition...running a guild means one gets lots and lots of personal tell action. I am always in tells with members or talking to someone interested in joining. At least it should...if you want a good size , healthy guild.
Think outside the tiny box of the adventuring
My problem in this case isnt about soloing...
I was dumb founded why you would LEAD a guild and solo...
Running a guild requires you to actually talk to the guild? Well.. really? wow... yeah I guess it would... and to think other guild leaders do it AND manage to group with their members... boy...
Man..I gotta paint a picture here?
One big reason why I do not group much is BECAUSE I am a guild leader. It's difficult if not near impossible to raid and manage several tells/chats at one time.....combined with the parant thing. I don't need to see our members to manage a guild...they don't need to see me to have fun in a game either. You must have only played in the powerplaying type guilds where the only objective is to get as many levels as they can...as fast as they can...usually stepping on several other players along the way.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
I know where you are coming from here but I also can see what Thamoris is saying. I think running a guild is different now in the post-WoW era. Yes, in EQ1 the Guild Leader job was to lead the troops on the field mainly because EQ1 was a forced grouping game. That is why many Guild Leaders were Tanks. Typically Tanks are the Leaders of a particular group or raid.
Times have changed so it is indeed possible that the people in Thamoris' guild do not even want to group all the time. This is a different era. The EQ1 comradery is gone and missed greatly. However, due to RL now and the expectations of WoW that has changed.
From his posts Thamoris seems like he would make a fine Guild Leader so I don't think we can judge him there.
Funny that you mention helms....since there are no graphics for any in game currently.
But on topic, I agree with the OP's statement. The next wave of things they need to focus on are more casual friendly things like travel times, and group mechanics and such.
Wow... I can't believe how dead community is in these games these days... even guild leaders have no interest in actually grouping.
RIP MMORPGs... Long live MMO arcaders i guess.. sad really.
The point I was trying to get across is that guild leaders that don't even group are, to me, the death of the MMORPG and embodiment of the MMOA (arcade) solo casual McDonalds no social demands/ investment game.
This is what I was lamenting
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
First...it's a guild..not a cult.
Your words indicate that you did indeed belong to power guilds....you may not have known it, but join a casual guild and you will see the difference. Not that anything is wrong with power guilds mind ya...I've known several that had mostly good players..nice folks. I've also know alot more that have really griefed alot of people.
I help everyone that asks or find help for them. Our guild is healthy and full of good, independant people. They don't need me to hold their hand. They know if they need help they can pst me anytimes and I will help them best I can. Since many of our members are parents too...they understand the " i can't help because my kid just fell and cracked his skull open ...afk ". I never said I never do groups. If you are going to quote and attack me...at least don't put words into my mouth ( posts ). I don't even know why I am bothering to defend myself , my gameplay, or my guild to a complete stranger on a public forums ? Perhaps I find it amusing ..combined with the fact I refuse to let people take my words out of context and exagerate a situation simply to try and grief another poster. I am not griefed...in the end..what you think means no difference at all to me.
Our guild is more like a community. There is no " stepping down "...because I never " steped up ". There are ranks..but they aren't military in nature..........anyways
Lets return to the topic of this thread...last time I checked this thread is not about me...or you.....and I grow bored of your attempts to flame bait and troll me.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
First...it's a guild..not a cult.
Your words indicate that you did indeed belong to power guilds....you may not have known it, but join a casual guild and you will see the difference. Not that anything is wrong with power guilds mind ya...I've known several that had mostly good players..nice folks. I've also know alot more that have really griefed alot of people.
I help everyone that asks or find help for them. Our guild is healthy and full of good, independant people. They don't need me to hold their hand. They know if they need help they can pst me anytimes and I will help them best I can. Since many of our members are parents too...they understand the " i can't help because my kid just fell and cracked his skull open ...afk ". I never said I never do groups. If you are going to quote and attack me...at least don't put words into my mouth ( posts ). I don't even know why I am bothering to defend myself , my gameplay, or my guild to a complete stranger on a public forums ? Perhaps I find it amusing ..combined with the fact I refuse to let people take my words out of context and exagerate a situation simply to try and grief another poster. I am not griefed...in the end..what you think means no difference at all to me.
Our guild is more like a community. There is no " stepping down "...because I never " steped up ". There are ranks..but they aren't military in nature..........anyways
Lets return to the topic of this thread...last time I checked this thread is not about me...or you.....and I grow bored of your attempts to flame bait and troll me.
lol ok, fair enough, i guess you know more about me then I do. Fair enough, your spot on, and everything I have clarified to you is incorrect. I have been in 'casual' guilds from day one... I dont raid and I even solo. But you know me better then that right? hehe ok.
It's just that I believe that a guild is more then a social chat channel. Why you are even in one, let alone leading one, is beyond me tbh, but good luck to you and yours.
At least you post your PC/ guild name so I know to never bother joining your 'guild' of self professed loners.
No wonder these games no longer have communities or, indeed, a soul.
man.. no, you don't.
I am not a power gamer by any stretch, amd I certainly don't step on people, but you assume whatever you want to make yourself feel better. Thats cool.
I DID lead a guild in EQ1 though, and you know what? I led it from the field. Alongside them. Sharing their journey as we all explored the world.
You can't handle tell hell? hehe you in the wrong job :P
I understand what you are saying, but well.. lol.. forgive me... a leader who NEVER groups and, by definition, NEVER spends time with his guild members outside of the guild chat...
I understand you have all these RL commitments, and thats all good, but.. eh? Have all those AND choose to lead a guild in a MMO? When I couldnt commit to being there 100% for my members I simply stepped down to allow someone who could do so to take the job.
I mean... What about support? what about aid? what about helping those guys you have roped in to bolster your numbers achieve what they need to do? What about the shared bond of achieved goals, the mutual reliance of a team, the strength of unity?
"sorry man, I cant help you right now, I don't do groups..."
lol
First...it's a guild..not a cult.
Your words indicate that you did indeed belong to power guilds....you may not have known it, but join a casual guild and you will see the difference. Not that anything is wrong with power guilds mind ya...I've known several that had mostly good players..nice folks. I've also know alot more that have really griefed alot of people.
I help everyone that asks or find help for them. Our guild is healthy and full of good, independant people. They don't need me to hold their hand. They know if they need help they can pst me anytimes and I will help them best I can. Since many of our members are parents too...they understand the " i can't help because my kid just fell and cracked his skull open ...afk ". I never said I never do groups. If you are going to quote and attack me...at least don't put words into my mouth ( posts ). I don't even know why I am bothering to defend myself , my gameplay, or my guild to a complete stranger on a public forums ? Perhaps I find it amusing ..combined with the fact I refuse to let people take my words out of context and exagerate a situation simply to try and grief another poster. I am not griefed...in the end..what you think means no difference at all to me.
Our guild is more like a community. There is no " stepping down "...because I never " steped up ". There are ranks..but they aren't military in nature..........anyways
Lets return to the topic of this thread...last time I checked this thread is not about me...or you.....and I grow bored of your attempts to flame bait and troll me.
lol ok, fair enough, i guess you know more about me then I do. Fair enough, your spot on, and everything I have clarified to you is incorrect. I have been in 'casual' guilds from day one... I dont raid and I even solo. But you know me better then that right? hehe ok.
It's just that I believe that a guild is more then a social chat channel. Why you are even in one, let alone leading one, is beyond me tbh, but good luck to you and yours.
At least you post your PC/ guild name so I know to never bother joining your 'guild' of self professed loners.
No wonder these games no longer have communities or, indeed, a soul.
You know..I don't know you....BUT...I imply from you own words that you think a guild is about what it does for its members or what its members are doing for the guild. We belong to neither school...we are a group of like minded gamers who enjoy playing the games we play. We support and encourage eachother...sometimes people group..sometimes not. Playing online is about freedom for us..members may choose to play as they see fit. Our guild does not serve its members...nor do our members serve the guild. Just a bunch of peeps playing games online and having fun..be it solo..be it grouping..be it harvesting, crafting or in diplomacy.
All I am trying to say is it SOUNDS like..based on your posts...that you have a narrow viewpoint on how you precieve a guild should be run. I encourage you to perhaps..expand your horizons and understand that their are many different good ways to manage a guild. Our guild goes beyond the game for those that wish even...guild forums, phone conversations...some members have even met in real life and shared dinner. I frequently speak with members about real life issues and try to help them out that way too.
Like I said..it's more of a community of gamers than it is a " guild ".....there..I've blessed you with enough of my time. It's time to go play some Vanguard.
enough drama..back on topic please
Sorry dude this game isn't going to live to its first expansion.
The rate at which people are quitting is astoudning.
So maybe the real solution is don't force people to group. Sure, encourage them by making content that is entertaining and better while grouping, but always put in enough solo content so people can always get to the top level solo if/when they need to. Which will always happen to just about every game as it matures...
Just feel the need to clear this up...again
Vanguard IS NOT a group centric game! One can solo all the way to level cap in any school ! Grouping for adventure is only about 10% of the entire game. You don't have to group to get good gear..in fact..best gear is crafted gear. You just have to play smart..don't rush into fights like a madman and yur fine. Some spawns may not work....maybe a few quests you have to pass up...so what..there are 50 more quests in the next town...skip em.
It may take a bit longer...perhaps a bit more grind...but one can solo to level cap on any school of any race. If one can not solo Vanguard....well..they should go find an easier game then.
I admit..finding a group is hard mostly because the game is so damn big...people are very spread out. Another reason though is...there are ALOT of people NOT adventureing....they are harvesting, crafting, diplomating?.......there is ALOT more to a mmorpg than just grouping and raiding. I hate raiding personaly so I'm glad Vanguard is not raid centric !!!!!
ok..one more time
You do not have to group even once to reach level cap in Vanguard !
You don't NEED to group in Vanguard, but there's a lot more incentives to than there is in WoW, including some pretty big ones such as Sigil's aim being a majority of content to be geared towards grouping, and grouping being a more viable form to gain experience.It's just like saying you can reach max level in WoW entirely by grouping. You can, but what's the point in mentioning it when soloing was obviously the bigger design intention?
Ok....Vanguard is roughly about 10% group oriented. I know it..I play it...solo...I never group and would never play a game where I felt like I couldn't do at least 90% of the content solo.
If I find 10 quests...1..maybe 2 of them are labeled group or small group. I find I can solo the small group ones many of the times too with a little patience and strategy.
10% group content...90% solo content...how is that forced grouping?
10% is your estimation, and you're basing it upon content that you've run into from your personal play experience. If you're soloing all the time, naturally you aren't at the bottom of dungeons riddled with four-dots if you're solo, so it kind of goes without saying that 90% of the content you've run into is reasonably going to be overland solo content.Anyway, it was Sigil's aim to divide the game up with 60% grouping content, 20% solo and 20% raid. That said, I don't believe at all that things panned out like that exactly...especially considering raid content doesn't really exist (not that it's possible given performance issues anyway).
What's important is their design methodology though. You're one of the persons who believe Sigil is going to be able to get the game in the exact shape that they want given time, right? So why believe that this won't be primarily a "grouping" game when it's Sigil's aim? You should harbor that thought as much as you harbor the idea that this game will have rectified a lot of it's issues a few months down the line.
So again, grouping isn't "forced", but grouping is the focus for Vanguard. Just like soloing is the focus for World of Warcraft when levelling. Grouping to gain experience in World of Warcraft makes as much sense as soloing to gain experience in Vanguard (ideally on Sigil's part anyway).
I'm not arguing with you about the current state of things. Grouping content is certainly lacking, and soloing is more viable with low population circumstances and other things. It still doesn't change the fact that it was Sigil's intention though, and if you're optimistic at all, you should only expect grouping incentives to expand.
I gotta believe there are a bunch of things the vsoh's dev team could do to try to improve turnout, and grouping, besides funnelling development time, and monetary resources, towards an expansion. Varying suggestions include:
1) Fixing bugs so game runs smoothly.
2) Better LFG tools
3) More content in underused "zones"/better travel to "zones"
4) Making sure the billing issue is fixed
5) Lowering the monthly fee (even to 0?)
6) Dynamic live events, promoted both in game and on different sites
7) Getting re-reviews at the six month mark, if the game is more stable and clean
8) Merging underpopulated servers
9) Website run by company, with open forums
10) Better promotions through media.
Now, that's not to say any of the above will make the game more popular, or make grouping easier. But, they are proactive steps that could help in the short run....as opposed to diverting precious resources to an expansion that would be about a year away.
Just my two cents.
1. I feel it was commendable that just before launch Brad said he was 'pulling everyone off' the expansion so that they could focus on fixing the ***** in the main game. You have to ask though, if the statement why it wasn't this done months before launch?
Or was it just spiel and there was no one there anyway?
And if the people didn't have the right skills then what was a company in financial trouble doing with them? Why was it spending money on an expansion?
I can guess why but <boggle>