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General: Sanya Thomas Parts with EA Mythic
Szark
News ManagerMember Posts: 4,420
Dana Massey of the WarCry Network recently conducted an interview with Sanya Thomas, formerly Director of Community Relations for EA Mythic, where they discuss her recent departure from EA Mythic, her experiences as a community manager, and her plans for the immediate future.
WarCry: When you began at Mythic, prior to Dark Age of Camelot's launch, you were one of the - if not the - first community managers. Now it's a full blown profession people can get an education for. Tell us about how you see community management, its evolution and your role in it.
Sanya Thomas: Oh, I wasn't the first. Jon Hanna was the Ur-CM. And Gordon Wrinn was already famous before anyone ever heard of me. But I definitely have the title of longest-lasting. It would have been six years in June.
Somewhere, I have a copy of a message board post that says "she won't last six months."
Originally, community work was reactive. Something happened, and some poor schmuck was assigned to hit the boards and respond. Or worse, it was considered marketing, and not even GOOD marketing - carefully controlled information leached of all life by someone who wants to "control the message." And either way, the community manager was to blame if players didn't like what they heard. At a lot of companies, it's still no different. Even companies that start well sometimes morph into a more marketing/reactive pose.
I think my greatest contribution was I demonstrated that it doesn't have to be that way. I used my real name, and shared actual information. I felt that a community is a living entity that cannot be controlled, and deserves respect.
If you hire someone off the board who "seems really nice" and pay him minimum wage, you will get what you deserve. Community work is a professional specialty, with standards of communication, turnaround time, media responsiveness, and more. There are known benchmarks for message board personnel requirements, beta cycles, and professional behavior. There are techniques that can be mastered, assuming the basic skills are in place.
Good community is a little marketing, a little CS, and a little old-fashioned mud-wrestling on behalf of your players. It's important to work with the whole team to achieve a consistent message, of course, but at the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the community weenie to stand up for players, for player feedback, and for realistic expectations. If that means a few bruises (from all sides), so be it.
I could go on for hours about this. I usually do, when I've been drinking in Austin with my fellow comrades in arms. (Comrades. How cool is that? Back when I was walking to school uphill through the snow, there were a tiny handful of people who knew what the hot seat felt like. There are dozens of us now, and we don't have to inflate our numbers by counting silly marketing stunts as "community.")
I'll just add that the Herald and the Herald's content will, I hope, go down as my legacy. An official place where you could see your stats and the stats of other players, and get first hand news that didn't sound like a shovelful of peppy? In 2001 there was no such thing, not on the scale or tone that we achieved with the Herald. (Originally we thought we'd just use www.darkageofcamelot.com - but it soon became apparent that we needed that URL to be very smooth and professional in tone. Hence www.camelotherald.com.)
What I did on the Herald was professional, in that it was entirely considered and intentional. Every good writer can work in any number of different "voices," and the voice of the Herald was meant to be casual and friendly. But not smooth, not over-produced, not "official."
I wish I could take the credit for the Herald, but honestly, the site design was as much Scott Jennings as it was me. We had similar ideas and feelings about The Right Way To Treat People, and The Importance Of Talking Honestly To Customers. And if we're being honest, Showing Off Your Epeen Is Fun, Admit It.
Little known fact: The original version of the Herald was Scott's blog software. Yes. It was built onto the Lum The Mad skeleton. That cracks me up to this day.
Read The full story here.
Comments
Maybe its just the wind......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
People don't leave dream jobs unless the dream leaves first or it's to another dream job. Since she's a "free agent" the second reason doesn't hold. She doesn't want to move, yet was willing to walk. Hrm.
Or heck, maybe she just wanted some free time.
Avatars are people too
Good luck with your future plans Sanya!
I have been reading your Friday Grab Bags since they started, and always came to the Hearald first for anything Dark Age related.
"I havent seen a single person that I knew from 5 years ago that worked at mythic fired... ok thats a lie, but that person was gone before EA came. Anyway, EA didnt make sweeping changes, nor have any of the devs lost their positions.
its a good thing for the game and for both EA and mythic!" by Kraiden
or....LuRavi wrote: "Just keep your eye out when you see the original Mythic employees quitting."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EA works like the Necromongers in The Chronicles of Riddick, they target developers for subjugation...
I'm sad for her leaving, but happy when I think she is now free.
Best of luck on whatever you do Sanya!!!!!!
Cheers!
J.
Im sorry, i guess i simply dont get it.
Tearful farewells ?For what ?
WHY is it important to anyone but her friends (and family)that a mouth piece for an MMO Dev team has moved on ?
Do people actually think that she served the customers ?That she wasnt there to fulfil her primary purpose of spouting whatever the corporation asked her to, couched in the best possible terms she could, so as to lessen any "upset" the customers would feel .
To sugar coat whatever the Corporation told her too ?
Sorry, but i just dont/ didnt see her as something of value to the customer base.
I feel the same way abut her moving on as i would about the moving on of a current mouth piece for a tobbaco corporation, a used car sales lot, or a politician
I agree, EA will slowly dismantle them over time. In the end even Mark Jacobs won't be around just like Richard Garriott got axed from UO.
Supreme Leader Hades
The Imperial Aces
Discord: https://discord.gg/CjBP4dc
No replies to feedback submitted at their site.
No bulletin boards.
Many people not receiving newsletters.
What modern day company can use the excuse "Our mail servers cannot send mail out to Yahoo, hotmail, or msn?" Come on it is the year 2007, we have the technology.
So I hope that EA/Mythic has a new strategy for their customer support and community relations.
I can see some of the posters in this thread are not familiar with her at all.
If you are going to talk negatively about someone, you better damn well have the facts to support it.
Sanya, while it was obvious she could not tell us everything, was always up front about things that she could tell us. She was always active on the forums and was always helpful.
I don't think there has been a better spokesperson for a game developer ever.
Mythic will miss her. I just hope this was not because of EA, because that would bode ill for War.
I wish her all the best.
If it stays just as Mythic in control, then the game will be fine. If EA starts changing things then the game will turn to crap and be the next crash and burn mmo.
As for Mythics community relations? They are the BEST I have seen at keeping their communities up to date with information and putting things out there for the people. I have hotmail and I still receive my newsletter every month. Even if you don't get your newsletter people post the links to the content so no big deal. No Bulletin boards is a plus and a minus, I won't open this can of worms but many people like this aspect. Why should they feel obligated to respond to every single persons feedback? That would take an enormously long time to write replies for every single thing. They do however have question submission that they pick out he best or most asked questions and answer them on a monthly basis. Can you name one other game company that puts out this much information? I can't. Look at AoC, you will find many more screenshots, videos, and information on WAR than AoC and AoC is nearing release.
You know, I really wish I had been wrong. I love Mythic. When I (and other like me) predicted the doom of Mythic the second EA smacked their name in front of them to created...EA Mythic...I wish I could have been otherwise hopeful.
But it's the beginning of the end. Just don't delude yourselves like you did before. EA is a corporation concerned about 2 things: Money and how to make it.
I predict they'll keep the Mythic name to sell Warhammer. Mythic’s life span is probably now directly tied to that of WAR.
.....................................
...but time flows like a river...
...and history repeats...
-Leader of "The Fighting Irish" in DAoC on Hib/Kay-
For me it's sad to see Sanya go. In my mind she is so closely associated with Camelot that this feels like a major change to the game. Even though I don't play nearly as much as I did in the Camelot's heyday, I still look forward to reading the Friday grab bag every week and I attribute that to Sanya. She managed to personalize it to the point it was almost like talking to her and I think in many ways it gave Camelot a unique personality. That kind of personal connection with the community each week for nearly 6 years is going to be missed.
I especially appreciated how Mythic, through Sanya, wasn't afraid to admit mistakes, to say they screwed up, or made a bad call, or broke a promise, or made a change to the game based on player feedback. I don't play a lot of MMORPG's, but I just haven't seen that kind of candor anywhere else.
This could be representative of a larger issue regarding Mythic and EA, but hordes of people often leave a company after a takeover. Sometimes it's just a question of the old guard not wanting to change, and certainly given Camelot's slumping popularity and the focus on Warhammer as the future, EA might well be making some changes. Only Sanya and EA know the real score on that.
Regardless, I think Camelot will miss Sanya. I know I certainly will, and I wish her continued success in her future endeavors.
I have a bad addiction to cat pictures, and had to do it =P
But yeah, Sanya is heroine of MMO history to me. Craziness.
--
psyconius Cthulhu
Gothika Studios
Best wishes to you Sanya!
I was an early beta tester for DAOC and stayed on to test for five years. Sanya was an incredible asset to Mythic and the community. Although I have been away for a year now (five years created total burnout) I always peeked in on the Herald to see what was going on and such. More developers need to follow Sanya's legacy; she did what she was supposed to do better than anyone in the industry. This is one thing that made DAOC one of the best damn communities around. Sanya always answered questions when emailed to her. She was all around great. I wish you the best Sanya in whatever new task you become part of and I do hope our paths will cross again sometime in the future.
As far as this being the A-bomb to WAR, I don't think that is the case. For whatever reason Sanya left, they were her own personal reasons. We will never know anything different unless she tells us so. Seems like it was a mutual agreement as she stated. I wouldn't worry to much about the condition of WAR. However, I have known people that have worked for EA that did not have good things to say about the company as a whole. One of the big reasons for me leaving DAOC was EA's aqusition of Mythic. Let's hope they let Mythic do what they are known to do and create good games. So far, I am still stoked about WAR and it just looks better and better every day!
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
She was "a 'mouthpiece' for an MMO Dev team" the same way Dizzy Gillespie was a 'mouthpiece' for a trumpet...
"If chaos were a thunderstorm, he'd be the sort to stand on a mountaintop in copper armor and yell, 'All Gods are bastards!'" --Terry Pratchett
"Reality continues to ruin my life." --Calvin
A sad bit of news. I play MMORPGs and usually don't get too involved in the developer/feedback communication, but when I played DAOC I would be constantly checking on the Herald. I would love getting the next news of upcoming Herald items and future changes/plans. I thought she did a great job to keep me excited and trusting in the vision of DAOC.
I dont beleive this bodes well for EA Mythic...ummm let me rephrase that. I dont beleive this bodes well for players of EA Mythic's games. (I'm sure it means more funds for EA.)
IMO any game company that hires Sanya immediately acquires credibility. She won't put up with corporate crap and lies and she won't tolerate a project she doesn't believe in.
I've read the herald every week since I started playing DAoC, even though I was not subscribed to DAoC for most of that time. Sanya Thomas is a leader and innovator in the field of community relations whether she is too humble to admit it or not.
I hope this does not mean that EA Mythic is going to take a less than truthful stance on issues that matter, or worse totally ignore their player base like so many other games.