What Vanguard needs is exactly what SOE can provide.
Vanguard needs:
TIME MONEY
Both of those things SOE has and can put into the game. My guess is the box sales probably covered most of the cost of the development, now, to make it an AAA game like Brad wants, they need the following:
Fix all major bugs Make the engine work within advertised specs Give fury races tails Turn on the sitting and lying down animations (this was coded in and didn't make it due to early launch) Fill in the world with content Finish the cities Redo the UI Polish, polish, polish
Vanguard does not need a overhaul in gameplay mechanics, just in terms of stability, bugs and polish. If the game had enough time and money to finish it, it would have been a top selling game.
I agree with you in spirit, but imo, and as I have posted once before elsewhere, to make VG a worthwhile investment they need to;
Employ any ex Sigil employess that have proven value to expand the EQ2 core team.
Steal the decent ideas that were in VG, including some variation of diplomacy, one or two class concepts, open seas, and craftable boats, and stick 'em in EQ2.
Give *every* VG purchaser, current subscriber or not, a free up to date download of EQ2 and a month of free playtime.
Put 1,000,000 miles between the SoE brand and the name of Brad McQuaid. Seriously... whats there to gain from having this albatross linked to your company?
Cancel VG and just let it become just another bad footnote in MMORPG history, serving as a warning to all the future Devs out there.
Relaunch EQ2 with a full on high oceans expansion pack ('Sea of Storms'?), a solid and well written new central story line/ quest arc, and the required media blitz.
Why VG will even be developed by SoE at this point is a mystery to me... There is absolutely no way this game will become 'EQ3'... it's broken to it's very core by the very engine used to build it.
If they added the crafting system and diplomacy systems of Vanguard to EQ2, I'd be even more content with EQ2 (which is what I'm currently playing) as those are the only reasons I'd even consider switching to vanguard.
I don't normally post in these forums as I don't play this game but have been watching what's been going on. I give it a 50/50 chance of being good or bad but it will never be the game they planned it to be.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Does anyone know if SOE has actually committed to sinking additional money into VG? It seems at this stage they either need to announce some serious changes/investment, or let VG go. I'd love to see the former - I had high hopes for VG.
I think that VG is safe in SOE's hands and that major changes, for the good of the game, will occur. However, dont expect the overhaul that EQ2 got. I think everyone forgets that EQ1 and EQ2 are SOE's flagships and the name alone justifies them throwing large sums of cash at it.
If SOE manage to pull this one off and turn it around, it would do tremendous things for their reputation.
It would be worth it for them on many levels I think.
Yep...I ahve to agree here. SOE destroyed their reputation with the general populace of the gaming community. They have all ready stepped up and admitted they made a msitake with the NGE and SWG. Well not is their chance to do the right thing and give us the Vanguard we were promised. Fix the bugs, the performance issues then add the things we were told we'd get. Smedley has mislead us before and it bit him in the pocket book with players leaving SWG in droves and staying away. Do you really think Smedley is that stupid as to pull some BS on the players now or in the future? I don't think they can be that stupid. Unless they have some serious mental issues in he IQ department. LOL! I dunno...I am going to stay optomistic on this one because of the fact that Smedley got burned.
So I'm giving them the benefit of a doubt and saying that they will make it better by 75% or more.
I disagree. MxO was considered an AAA MMO game at the time and they had the same problems as Vanguard did. Monolith sold it to SOE and at the time everyone thought the same thing. It is virtually an identical situation. Identical. Sorry....but that's what I think. The inherent code in Vanguard is FUBARed to all hell and back. If you wanna truly fix Vanguard, you need to rip out the source code and start over. That's what happens when the CEO of the company screws (literally) with the PR rep at Sigil while his wife is down the hall in another office. SoE has a lot of work to do to fix this game. There is so many things wrong with it, it aint even funny. I think SoE bought it just to get it out of their hair. That's my opinion. I seen it done by SOE and Im sure it'll happen again
Ahh but see you are forgetting why SOE ever picked up MXO in the first place. They didnt pick it up to breathe life into it or anything else. They did it solely to get in bed with DC so they could get the contract to make DC Comics online.
Those who were here in the past might remember I wrote what was easily one of the more (if not most) critical essays of SOE, which was posted right here on MMORPG.com about the problems with SOE (specifically their business tactics regarding the NGE.)
I haven't played Vangaurd. Once I found out SOE was gonna have something to do with it, I stayed away. but, this might come as a shock, but SOE may be what the game needs, at least in theory.
But, I think one needs to be realistic. The chances, and the will to do some serious changes to this game I think will end up being nill after a few months, if things are as broken as I'm reading. SOE does have cash, there's no doubt about that. I may think some of their business tactics in the past deceptive bait and switch, but give Smedley credit where it is due, this man knows how to turn a profit.
But you can't just throw endless sums of money. The idea that Brad was the big problem I don't think floats. There's an entire team, and I doubt that once Smedley takes over, if he keeps most the staff intact and just adds a few EQ2 boys things will work. Smedley really would have to clean house I think. First, ditch brad as a creative consultant. Buy him out with your millions if you have to Smedley, just seperate yourself from him, as someone else in this thread said.
Then there's the will. EQ2 notwithstanding, does SOE really wanna sink not just money but an insane amount of dedication, in what will probably take 9-12 months plus to get the game going right? (That includes pushing out real bug fixes, as well as launching a new expansion to draw in new customers). Then there's the issue of SOE's reputation. They still haven't really recovered from the NGE. Time has healed some wounds, but all the mea cuplas in the world won't recover that reputation. Only an absolute solid game will. Perhaps Vangaurd could be this. BUt that's a lot of money and time.
In short, I'm pessimistic anything will really change. Not because SOE will be incompetent. Because SOE is first and foremost a business, and they will judge doing an overhaul of Vangaurd not worth it (the game was a failed game before they bought it.) SOE had publishing rights to this game, so I view it saving face. Within 12-18 months this game will be either cancelled or non-existent.
The entrance of SOE is definitely a good thing for the game. The fact that they are a stable, professional, organized group will make a significant difference in the final product. They will put in Development processes that will increase the quality of the game.
For now, I am sure they can throw a lot of resources at it because they got the game so cheap. However, I really don't think they are putting their "A Team" on the project. We have already seen that Nino will work on their cool new, super secret MMO not VG. My guess is that they will work only to make what is there currently more playable not make VG realize it's initial potential.
For the fans of the game you should be happy but I would still keep my expectations low as VG will top out at a very small niche fan base which means that you will not get too much innovation. Even EQ2 which is highly polished and considered very successful now does not have a huge sub base.
Basically 100% is not the problem. The question is how long it will take. Still playing EQ2 and i know what the DEVs where able to do with the game. VG has the same number of DEVs. This means it will take quite some time.
I think V:SoH has a future. Hardware gets better and cheaper every day, Bugs get removed any day and performance will increase. Those who play EQ2 know that the DEVs even dont have a problem to revamp an older zone or place.
There is also a lot of Kung_Fu stuff in this game and once its stable and performing we even might see a SOGA upgrade and a launch on the asian market.
Well said, and quite my feeling as well. I played EQ2 a long time myself and we knew it took them a LONG time to make substantial changed. We're talking in scopes of years here, thats why I wonder if VG will really survive that long.
Also, IMO what really is bogging down the entire game is, Sigil wanted to make an EQ1 revival but like EQ1 with the content of all 12 or 14 expansions it had now. VG was supposed to have EVERYTHING right away, it was just too much. Instead of starting with one continent and do that one right and then expand, they wasted time with ship combat, which is maybe right for expansion pack number 5 or so. I mean it would have been cool, but they really lost track of making a complete core game and THEN built on that. Now, being the leviathan of a game it will be very time consuming to work with that, much more IMO than it took EQ2, which was rather streamlined compared to VG.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The entrance of SOE is definitely a good thing for the game. The fact that they are a stable, professional, organized group will make a significant difference in the final product. They will put in Development processes that will increase the quality of the game. For now, I am sure they can throw a lot of resources at it because they got the game so cheap. However, I really don't think they are putting their "A Team" on the project. We have already seen that Nino will work on their cool new, super secret MMO not VG. My guess is that they will work only to make what is there currently more playable not make VG realize it's initial potential. For the fans of the game you should be happy but I would still keep my expectations low as VG will top out at a very small niche fan base which means that you will not get too much innovation. Even EQ2 which is highly polished and considered very successful now does not have a huge sub base.
Two points that paint you wrong:
* SOE/Smed just stated that VG will indeed be expanded upon.
* EQ2 has sold over 2 million copies.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
The entrance of SOE is definitely a good thing for the game. The fact that they are a stable, professional, organized group will make a significant difference in the final product. They will put in Development processes that will increase the quality of the game. For now, I am sure they can throw a lot of resources at it because they got the game so cheap. However, I really don't think they are putting their "A Team" on the project. We have already seen that Nino will work on their cool new, super secret MMO not VG. My guess is that they will work only to make what is there currently more playable not make VG realize it's initial potential. For the fans of the game you should be happy but I would still keep my expectations low as VG will top out at a very small niche fan base which means that you will not get too much innovation. Even EQ2 which is highly polished and considered very successful now does not have a huge sub base.
Two points that paint you wrong:
* SOE/Smed just stated that VG will indeed be expanded upon.
* EQ2 has sold over 2 million copies.
Of course they will make expansions. Even EQ1 still has expansions, however the quality of the expansions may not be what the Vanguard faithful may expect just as the EQ1 expansions are not top notch. SOE has the "scrimmage squad" on EQ1 and will do the same with VG. The number of subs will not justify otherwise.
EQ2 may have sold 2 million boxes but these games do not profit on box sales. Maintaining subscriptions is the name of the game.
I voted 100%. I have no doubt that they will fix the game now that SOE is working on it with the staff from Sigil that they retained. SOE has done a wonderful job in turning around EQ 2 which went from a good game(in my opinion) to an amazing game. I also like how SOE is concentrating on the performance issues. Aside from some bugs and the world not being 100% fleshed out, performance is there biggest problem. Performance is what drove me off.
Now granted I do not have a top of the line computer, but I can run EQ 2 on one of the higher settings and can have almost everything turned up on Lineage 2 also. With Vanguard I have to have it turned down pretty low and it is still choppy in some areas.(and yes I did all the "tweaks") Plus I see that alot of people with extremely powerful computers are still having problems. That is not exactly an encouraging sign.
While I do like Brad Mcquaid alot, I found his whole comment about Vanguard being such a cutting edge game that it practically needs a new computer to run it at the way it is supposed to be a bunch of crap. If I can run EQ 2 turned up and run Lineage 2 turned up there is no reason why I should have to turn Vanguard down to where it looks like a 7 year old game.(and a poorly performing one at that)
The Unreal 2 graphical engine that it is built on is a powerful and good looking engine but its not exactly a new engine. Also a wide variety of computers can run games based off of that engine with decent performance. So what the heck happened with Vanguard then? Especially when Lineage 2 is based off of Unreal 2's engine also. The difference is the fact that the Vanguard devs modified it alot, where the Lineage 2 devs did not. The performance issues are NOT the computers fault but the fault of poor coding plain and simple.
While I am commenting on Brad, one other comment of his bothers me and it is related to the whole performance topic. I about fell out of my chair when I read that he was counting on the fact that everyone would have upgraded there computers by the time Vanguard came out or that the price of parts would be alot cheaper. I am sorry but that has got to be the dumbest strategy I have ever heard of. Who the hell develops there product on the asumption that something "might" be the way you are hoping in the future. That would be like a car company developing a car thats runs off a special fuel with the hopes that it will be widely availabe by the time the car is released to the market.
I may not play WoW anymore, but Blizzard did get is right as far as how to market there product. Most importantly by making sure that there game would be able to be played by a large portion of the gaming community. Turbine was smart with LOTRO and did the same thing by releasing a good game that runs smooth also on a wide variety of machines.
I am not trying to bash Brad or Sigil and I do wish them well and will check out Vanguard again in 6 mo to a year depending on what I hear about it. But they definitely made some bad choices and I am glad that SOE is there to help fix it now.
Originally posted by Enigma I disagree. MxO was considered an AAA MMO game at the time and they had the same problems as Vanguard did. Monolith sold it to SOE and at the time everyone thought the same thing. It is virtually an identical situation. Identical. Sorry....but that's what I think. The inherent code in Vanguard is FUBARed to all hell and back. If you wanna truly fix Vanguard, you need to rip out the source code and start over. That's what happens when the CEO of the company screws (literally) with the PR rep at Sigil while his wife is down the hall in another office. SoE has a lot of work to do to fix this game. There is so many things wrong with it, it aint even funny. I think SoE bought it just to get it out of their hair. That's my opinion. I seen it done by SOE and Im sure it'll happen again
MxO was not sold to SOE directly. MxO was tossed over to SOE freely by Warner Bros as a incentive for SOE buying the DC comics licensing rights for a DC Comics MMO.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
No matter what VG 2 will be like, the infamy has already stuck to it making it a commercially bankrupt game. just look, even now SoH is improving but people still totally criticise it becase thats trendy
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
It's really amazing to see there are people who actually believe SOE and Smedley will turn this game around for the better.
Where have you guys been? Don't you know just about everything these clowns touch turn to shit? They are the Midas of crap, everything they touch they turn to garbage and you're pinning your hopes on them? With their history in the gaming world? You would think people who visit gaming forums as well as gaming sites would at least know better when it comes to this company.
Incredible!!! It's nothing but wishful thinking at best.
Someone wrote, "SOE..is a stable proffesional group".. and their taking over this game is a very good thing.
You really think so, huh? More like a stable group of nitwits who couldn't care less what its gamers think or want. Stop deluding yourselves into thinking otherwise. What makes anyone think these people will change from the way they've been throughout the years to a group that will listen to it's players and do what's best for them? Because Smedley said they would? Because as this person wrote, they are a company with money? So what? You can't be serious, you would have to be pretty much uninformed to think things will be better now that they took over.
Actually, not pretty much uninformed, more like completely clueless.
Comments
I agree with you in spirit, but imo, and as I have posted once before elsewhere, to make VG a worthwhile investment they need to;
Why VG will even be developed by SoE at this point is a mystery to me... There is absolutely no way this game will become 'EQ3'... it's broken to it's very core by the very engine used to build it.
Just let it die already.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
You're kidding about this, right?
< scratches head in puzzlement >
Yep...I ahve to agree here. SOE destroyed their reputation with the general populace of the gaming community. They have all ready stepped up and admitted they made a msitake with the NGE and SWG. Well not is their chance to do the right thing and give us the Vanguard we were promised. Fix the bugs, the performance issues then add the things we were told we'd get. Smedley has mislead us before and it bit him in the pocket book with players leaving SWG in droves and staying away. Do you really think Smedley is that stupid as to pull some BS on the players now or in the future? I don't think they can be that stupid. Unless they have some serious mental issues in he IQ department. LOL! I dunno...I am going to stay optomistic on this one because of the fact that Smedley got burned.
So I'm giving them the benefit of a doubt and saying that they will make it better by 75% or more.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Well.... Back from "retirement."
Those who were here in the past might remember I wrote what was easily one of the more (if not most) critical essays of SOE, which was posted right here on MMORPG.com about the problems with SOE (specifically their business tactics regarding the NGE.)
I haven't played Vangaurd. Once I found out SOE was gonna have something to do with it, I stayed away. but, this might come as a shock, but SOE may be what the game needs, at least in theory.
But, I think one needs to be realistic. The chances, and the will to do some serious changes to this game I think will end up being nill after a few months, if things are as broken as I'm reading. SOE does have cash, there's no doubt about that. I may think some of their business tactics in the past deceptive bait and switch, but give Smedley credit where it is due, this man knows how to turn a profit.
But you can't just throw endless sums of money. The idea that Brad was the big problem I don't think floats. There's an entire team, and I doubt that once Smedley takes over, if he keeps most the staff intact and just adds a few EQ2 boys things will work. Smedley really would have to clean house I think. First, ditch brad as a creative consultant. Buy him out with your millions if you have to Smedley, just seperate yourself from him, as someone else in this thread said.
Then there's the will. EQ2 notwithstanding, does SOE really wanna sink not just money but an insane amount of dedication, in what will probably take 9-12 months plus to get the game going right? (That includes pushing out real bug fixes, as well as launching a new expansion to draw in new customers). Then there's the issue of SOE's reputation. They still haven't really recovered from the NGE. Time has healed some wounds, but all the mea cuplas in the world won't recover that reputation. Only an absolute solid game will. Perhaps Vangaurd could be this. BUt that's a lot of money and time.
In short, I'm pessimistic anything will really change. Not because SOE will be incompetent. Because SOE is first and foremost a business, and they will judge doing an overhaul of Vangaurd not worth it (the game was a failed game before they bought it.) SOE had publishing rights to this game, so I view it saving face. Within 12-18 months this game will be either cancelled or non-existent.
They already stated officially that VG is to have the same size team as EQ2 - that's well over 50 devs.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
The entrance of SOE is definitely a good thing for the game. The fact that they are a stable, professional, organized group will make a significant difference in the final product. They will put in Development processes that will increase the quality of the game.
For now, I am sure they can throw a lot of resources at it because they got the game so cheap. However, I really don't think they are putting their "A Team" on the project. We have already seen that Nino will work on their cool new, super secret MMO not VG. My guess is that they will work only to make what is there currently more playable not make VG realize it's initial potential.
For the fans of the game you should be happy but I would still keep my expectations low as VG will top out at a very small niche fan base which means that you will not get too much innovation. Even EQ2 which is highly polished and considered very successful now does not have a huge sub base.
Well said, and quite my feeling as well. I played EQ2 a long time myself and we knew it took them a LONG time to make substantial changed. We're talking in scopes of years here, thats why I wonder if VG will really survive that long.
Also, IMO what really is bogging down the entire game is, Sigil wanted to make an EQ1 revival but like EQ1 with the content of all 12 or 14 expansions it had now. VG was supposed to have EVERYTHING right away, it was just too much. Instead of starting with one continent and do that one right and then expand, they wasted time with ship combat, which is maybe right for expansion pack number 5 or so. I mean it would have been cool, but they really lost track of making a complete core game and THEN built on that. Now, being the leviathan of a game it will be very time consuming to work with that, much more IMO than it took EQ2, which was rather streamlined compared to VG.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
* SOE/Smed just stated that VG will indeed be expanded upon.
* EQ2 has sold over 2 million copies.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
* SOE/Smed just stated that VG will indeed be expanded upon.
* EQ2 has sold over 2 million copies.
Of course they will make expansions. Even EQ1 still has expansions, however the quality of the expansions may not be what the Vanguard faithful may expect just as the EQ1 expansions are not top notch. SOE has the "scrimmage squad" on EQ1 and will do the same with VG. The number of subs will not justify otherwise.
EQ2 may have sold 2 million boxes but these games do not profit on box sales. Maintaining subscriptions is the name of the game.
SoE bought out Sigil....Sigil is out of the process all together. The Dev's are SoE, the owner is SoE, the desision makers are SoE...Sigil is out.
I voted 100%. I have no doubt that they will fix the game now that SOE is working on it with the staff from Sigil that they retained. SOE has done a wonderful job in turning around EQ 2 which went from a good game(in my opinion) to an amazing game. I also like how SOE is concentrating on the performance issues. Aside from some bugs and the world not being 100% fleshed out, performance is there biggest problem. Performance is what drove me off.
Now granted I do not have a top of the line computer, but I can run EQ 2 on one of the higher settings and can have almost everything turned up on Lineage 2 also. With Vanguard I have to have it turned down pretty low and it is still choppy in some areas.(and yes I did all the "tweaks") Plus I see that alot of people with extremely powerful computers are still having problems. That is not exactly an encouraging sign.
While I do like Brad Mcquaid alot, I found his whole comment about Vanguard being such a cutting edge game that it practically needs a new computer to run it at the way it is supposed to be a bunch of crap. If I can run EQ 2 turned up and run Lineage 2 turned up there is no reason why I should have to turn Vanguard down to where it looks like a 7 year old game.(and a poorly performing one at that)
The Unreal 2 graphical engine that it is built on is a powerful and good looking engine but its not exactly a new engine. Also a wide variety of computers can run games based off of that engine with decent performance. So what the heck happened with Vanguard then? Especially when Lineage 2 is based off of Unreal 2's engine also. The difference is the fact that the Vanguard devs modified it alot, where the Lineage 2 devs did not. The performance issues are NOT the computers fault but the fault of poor coding plain and simple.
While I am commenting on Brad, one other comment of his bothers me and it is related to the whole performance topic. I about fell out of my chair when I read that he was counting on the fact that everyone would have upgraded there computers by the time Vanguard came out or that the price of parts would be alot cheaper. I am sorry but that has got to be the dumbest strategy I have ever heard of. Who the hell develops there product on the asumption that something "might" be the way you are hoping in the future.
That would be like a car company developing a car thats runs off a special fuel with the hopes that it will be widely availabe by the time the car is released to the market.
I may not play WoW anymore, but Blizzard did get is right as far as how to market there product. Most importantly by making sure that there game would be able to be played by a large portion of the gaming community. Turbine was smart with LOTRO and did the same thing by releasing a good game that runs smooth also on a wide variety of machines.
I am not trying to bash Brad or Sigil and I do wish them well and will check out Vanguard again in 6 mo to a year depending on what I hear about it. But they definitely made some bad choices and I am glad that SOE is there to help fix it now.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Smedley indicated that he would look to the players to help decide where the game will go -
that is a recipe for disaster. I personally do not want to see another game whose direction
is determined by those who yell the loudest.
They need to take time and make some tough decisions and stick to them. My recommendation
on their priorities :
Bugs
Population issues (server merges, getting players together)
Performance
Graphics issues such as helms, armor, character models, etc.
Tedium in crafting and diplomacy
Raiding
at the bottom of the list new zones, ship vs ship battles, etc.
MxO was not sold to SOE directly. MxO was tossed over to SOE freely by Warner Bros as a incentive for SOE buying the DC comics licensing rights for a DC Comics MMO.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Knowledge is Power!
It's really amazing to see there are people who actually believe SOE and Smedley will turn this game around for the better.
Where have you guys been? Don't you know just about everything these clowns touch turn to shit? They are the Midas of crap, everything they touch they turn to garbage and you're pinning your hopes on them? With their history in the gaming world? You would think people who visit gaming forums as well as gaming sites would at least know better when it comes to this company.
Incredible!!! It's nothing but wishful thinking at best.
Someone wrote, "SOE..is a stable proffesional group".. and their taking over this game is a very good thing.
You really think so, huh? More like a stable group of nitwits who couldn't care less what its gamers think or want. Stop deluding yourselves into thinking otherwise. What makes anyone think these people will change from the way they've been throughout the years to a group that will listen to it's players and do what's best for them? Because Smedley said they would? Because as this person wrote, they are a company with money? So what? You can't be serious, you would have to be pretty much uninformed to think things will be better now that they took over.
Actually, not pretty much uninformed, more like completely clueless.
Are they planning an NGE similar re-vamp of the entire game or what?
I see whinging... does anyone have facts straight from the source?
If so... link it already. I would like to see this game at the point that I had and many others had originally anticipated.
They may have had all the items in the list but not in that order.....
Priority is important .....
Raiding is not needed until they fix bugs, population and performance issues. Last I heard, they
were preparing to test raiding on the test server....