Originally posted by tenthring Originally posted by Samuraisword Goldsellers are their own worst enemies. Instead of maintaining a very lucrative business and hiding behind the grey area of virtual item ownership, they are proving that their presence is bad for the game by spamming players and being a general nuisance and thus forcing developers to take action. It's a good thing for us real gamers that goldsellers are so stupid they will push this issue into the courts once and for all.
Most of those sellers used to use EBAY. Then Blizz asked EBAY to crack down. The unintended consequence was that right after that SPAM in-game started to shoot up dramatically. Just like with the EBAY approach, I wonder what unintended consequences will result.
Until the root cause of gold selling, the demand of the product, is addressed it is all just a big band aid.
Exactly! Blizzard (and most other MMOS) use accumulating gold or plat or whatever as a time sink, and make things players would really want cost alot of money. Until people either stop playing for the endgame instead of enjoying themselves, or developers make games where you don't need to grind money like that, people will sell gold. It's capitalism.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
It's a fluff cease and decease letter. They would never actually file a law suit against someone like IGE which has the ability to hire very expensive trial lawyers. Then again IGE doesn't spam you in game which is the crux of Blizzard's compliant against Peons4Hire. So yeah they know how to scare the little guys who act annoyingly in game. They haven't done a thing to the gold buy or selling industry. If anything they've help IGE and eliminated the competition that advertises in game instead of out like IGE.
Heh I dont know.
Don't think that just because IGE is the most popular, they can hire a trial lawyer that can outperform Blizzard.
Blizzard makes millions in profit A MONTH from WoW. IGE only like .04% of that. Blizzard can decimate IGN into the ground just from drawn out legal hearings alone.
As far as Im concerned, the more Plat sellers gets nuked, the better.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
heres my thought on buying gold from people: payin someone to play the game for you is the saddest thing i ever heard of. if you are too lazy to play a COMPUTER GAME thats pretty sad. i wouldnt even know what to call these people. its like they are wannabe no life loosers or somthin. anyways people doin this doesnt bother me. what bothers me is the spam they do. i get one every 2 minutes its annoying. they need to get that out of the game.
Actually, farming gold is the saddest thing I ever heard of. And the people that farm the most are the biggest wannabe losers I know.
Most gold buyers are one of two types:
1) Mommy and daddy have lots of money (this is really a parenting issue, they aren't spending their own money).
2) They are adults with real jobs and/or families.
Take myself. I'm an actuary. In the actuarial profession you get raises and promotions for passing certification examinations. I just passed one a week ago. Each exam is like a 5-10k raise easy. Now, with only a fraction of the money from passing that exam I can purchase gold equivilant to what I would have farmed in the same number of hours I spent studying for the test.
Which sounds like more of a loser wannabe thing to do. Spent hundreds of hours mindlessly grinding mobs so I can buy some pixels, or engage in activities that advance my career and earnings potential while using a fraction of that to remain competitive in a hobby I enjoy.
Most people I meet with lots of gold or loot are the unemployed or underemployed. Neglectful parents, flunking college students, gamestop register jockies. These people don't mind farming their gold in game BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO. They are losers in RL, they use the game to feel important.
People buying gold with the money they earn in their good RL jobs only further reminds them of how little they really have. They use this game to escape from their real life social status. They don't want to be reminded their sword of uberness doesn't make them top shit, that it really only represents a lot of wasted time that someone else can come in and buy.
Don't get my wrong, I don't want to waste my money on pixels. But in order to keep up, the way most MMOs are set up, they are basically a timesink. And as a PvPer someone else having twice my HP and damage makes it impossible to enjoy the aspect of the game I do like. It would be great if the timesinks were eliminated and the playing field leveled, but it ain't going to happen. Timesinks are like crack for people with a ton of time on their hands that want to escape from RL. And that is your typical MMO player.
P.S. Playing a computer game is suppose to be what you do when you are feeling lazy. If I want to work I can just stay late at the office. They pay me in $$$ instead of GGG.
Something people are missing as pertaining to the law and what Blizzard can do against the gold selling companies is the fact that they are not doing this in a criminal case, but in a civil case and no criminal actions will be solved from this. What Blizzard will probably do is show that the goldselling companies are using their property to make profit from without the permission of Blizzard/Vivendi and therefore is against almost every single Business Code and Law the world over.
They can also bring in a seperate hearing criminal charges depending on the location of the goldselling companies. These charges would include spamming, which many countries are just now inacting laws to make it illegal to spam someone. The reason people have not sued or brought criminal charges earlier is the fact that most of these laws are just now coming into being and being tested in the court of law. In almost every instance they have been judged in favor of the companies and individuals bringing the charges against the spammers. By pushing this Blizzard is setting the bar for both civil and criminal law that is being tested and I believe only Blizzard will have the wherewithall to bring it to completion.
I don't play the game anymore, but Bully to you Blizzard and good luck.
Actually, farming gold is the saddest thing I ever heard of. And the people that farm the most are the biggest wannabe losers I know.
Which sounds like more of a loser wannabe thing to do. They're about the same. The seller may edge out the buyer due to legal issues not yet decided upon. Spent hundreds of hours mindlessly grinding mobs so I can buy some pixels, or engage in activities that advance my career and earnings potential while using a fraction of that to remain competitive in a hobby I enjoy. If someone needs to cheat at a game they "enjoy" to remain competitive, then they either suck at the game and probably shouldn't be playing it, or they're jealous because they can't have everything given to them and need to sink so low to cheat.
Most people I meet with lots of gold or loot are the unemployed or underemployed. Neglectful parents, flunking college students, gamestop register jockies. These people don't mind farming their gold in game BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO. They are losers in RL, they use the game to feel important. I belong to a guild that has around 50 people in it. The two youngest players are about 19 or so, and the average is in the 30's with a couple in their 50's. Most have families/children/lives outside the game that takes up most of their time. Everyone in the guild has at least 2000g in their bank and the best mount in the game. We all HAVE to keep our skills and equipment at peek at all times and probably even use more extras (poisons/potions/consumables) than others on the server as we are one of the top raiding guilds on the server (Raiding costs lots of money, you can't make money raiding). NONE of them buy gold, as they would be kicked out of the guild immediately, without question. We are a close knit group of friends and cohorts and help each other and maximize gameplay time. Personally, it takes me 10 minutes to check my store for product. I look at my stock, see what people have purchased, gather the money (usually about 200g per day average), and check raw material. Then I grab what I need to refill purchases, run to TS instance and create my product. Usually this takes around 20 minutes depending on sales. If I'm pressed for time, I make the most popular items, and come back later for the stuff I know doesn't sell as often. I stock around 20 items or so, usually at about 100g a piece average (some a lot less, some more). This gives me a couple hours to go do guild stuff, groups, raids, solo, whatever is going on with the guild. Usually I'll set aside a couple hours harvesting time for the weekends, and have become very good at timing my raw material needs in between. After doing guild things, or soloing, or whatever my playtime allows, I'll port to town, repair my gear, restock consumables, and park myself right next to my store. If we're doing a special raid or instance next playtime, I may park myself at or near (within the zone) that location. I don't necessarily have to check my store every day.
People buying gold with the money they earn in their good RL jobs only further reminds them of how little they really have. They use this game to escape from their real life social status. They don't want to be reminded their sword of uberness doesn't make them top shit, that it really only represents a lot of wasted time that someone else can come in and buy. Usually, I've found there is a reason someone is a failure in RL, therefore, it shows in their gameplay as well. Donald Trump has exactly the same amount of time that I do. There is no time machine that allows anyone more than 24 hours a day. Obviously, since he makes millions, and I don't, he is much better at using the time he has to make it work. It works the same way in game. If someone has a limited amount of time in game, make the most of it, or slosh around as a "failure", or quit ("failure", in this sense, is used to show how they feel about themselves because they don't have "the best" of everything in the game). It doesn't give them the right to cheat just because they can't figure out how to get what they want in a stupid video game. If they buy a way to get the item they fail to be able to get in game, they're still a failure with a fast horse or uber (insert armor/weapon).
Don't get my wrong, I don't want to waste my money on pixels. But in order to keep up, the way most MMOs are set up, they are basically a timesink. And as a PvPer someone else having twice my HP and damage makes it impossible to enjoy the aspect of the game I do like. It would be great if the timesinks were eliminated and the playing field leveled, but it ain't going to happen. Timesinks are like crack for people with a ton of time on their hands that want to escape from RL. And that is your typical MMO player. ALL GAMES ARE TIMESINKS. If you buy Monopoly money from "the bank" with real money, so you can buy all the properties at the beginning of the game, and win, it sounds pretty ludicrous, right? But now, all of a sudden, it's ok to buy money IN A GAME, so you can "win" is still retarded and their stupidity is affecting MY gameplay. Mr. Genius, that spends real money to win at Monopoly, is ruining the gameplay of the others playing the game, because they cannot buy very many properties and now Mr. Genius is just a moron with a bunch of properties. We teach our children, well most of us, that it is wrong to cheat at games, but then they turn around and cheat, and we teach them because, "It is a good lesson in life to learn to play fairly and respect others...". If number 2 on your list of gold buyers is true, which I believe you, then that pretty much scares me that these people are raising children of their own and spreading their idiocy on to future generations. No wonder kids are so screwed up nowadays. Plus, if all the gold buyers are PvPers, fat chance, then how are these crooked "companies" making millions of dollars every year selling to a select few of PvPers that can't cut it. It's not JUST PvPer's and if these players are NOT in competition for these "uber items" then WHY DO THEY GIVE A CRAP? Why would they buy something that doesn't make any difference for them, and destroy the game for everyone? Real smooth Ex-Lax. Way to be a scumbag over something that doesn't really matter anyways. PvPers are gaining their edge by cheating and making themselves lower than the "no-lifers" that play constantly to get it themselves. At least these so called "no-lifers" have the time to get what they want, or found a way to get it by managing their time well and not resort to cheating. What "no-lifers" do in RL doesn't affect me, I could care less, but what buyers do to games DOES, and I deserve the same fairness and respect those Monopoly players deserve.
P.S. Playing a computer game is suppose to be what you do when you are feeling lazy. If I want to work I can just stay late at the office. They pay me in $$$ instead of GGG. And the rules in life are a lot like the rules in a game. If you want more, you work more. If you don't want to work more, then you increase what you make "per time unit" by being a better player, or smarter. A cheater is a cheater, period.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
Hmmm... I think the earlier post that mentioned they have to sue them through civil court made a good point. Because they can't sue them (don't know lawyer jargon) the normal route because they could just say that they are providing a service and providing a service is not illegal. I am glad blizzard is taking care of this because their spamming was annoying.
It seems crazy that someone would spam ads in game. The game cost $50, after they spam ads for a little while they end up banned forever. $50 for a chance to spam a few people doesn't seem very profitable.
I've never seen gold sellers spam before in any mmorpg.
Does WoW give free trials without asking for credit card information or something?
actually idk if they ask for a CC or not BUT i heard on a trial you can't interact with anyone unless they start talkin first.you can't even trade with anyone on a trial key.so idk how exactly the gold seller losers do it. i know i met some one on a trial before they had signed my guild charter (just a guild for my alts) and i couldn't trade or mail him the 50s i offered to get people to sign the charter and leave.
they COULD use a prepaid throw away card tho, and some gift cards you can get at malls can be used also. use to play EQOA and couldn't find cards for it anymore so i started buyin gift cards from the mall.
Actually, farming gold is the saddest thing I ever heard of. And the people that farm the most are the biggest wannabe losers I know.
Which sounds like more of a loser wannabe thing to do. They're about the same. The seller may edge out the buyer due to legal issues not yet decided upon. Spent hundreds of hours mindlessly grinding mobs so I can buy some pixels, or engage in activities that advance my career and earnings potential while using a fraction of that to remain competitive in a hobby I enjoy. If someone needs to cheat at a game they "enjoy" to remain competitive, then they either suck at the game and probably shouldn't be playing it, or they're jealous because they can't have everything given to them and need to sink so low to cheat.
Take a look at the Blizzard PvP tournament. Practically half the players got disqualified. Same is true for the pro Korean gamers. A lot got disqualified because they were playing on bought accounts. Now, these people certainly didn't suck at the game. They had the highest arena ratings in the world. They were the best PvPers. They just didn't want to waste time grinding. Grinding doesn't make them better at arena.
Most people I meet with lots of gold or loot are the unemployed or underemployed. Neglectful parents, flunking college students, gamestop register jockies. These people don't mind farming their gold in game BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO. They are losers in RL, they use the game to feel important. I belong to a guild that has around 50 people in it. The two youngest players are about 19 or so, and the average is in the 30's with a couple in their 50's. Most have families/children/lives outside the game that takes up most of their time. Everyone in the guild has at least 2000g in their bank and the best mount in the game. We all HAVE to keep our skills and equipment at peek at all times and probably even use more extras (poisons/potions/consumables) than others on the server as we are one of the top raiding guilds on the server (Raiding costs lots of money, you can't make money raiding). NONE of them buy gold, as they would be kicked out of the guild immediately, without question. We are a close knit group of friends and cohorts and help each other and maximize gameplay time. Really. None of them say they buy gold. We all know that statistically quite a lot of people. Of course, since your guild kicks out anyone that would admit to it there is no surprise that no one admits to it. This is like saying none of the old HWL had friends play on their account. 90% did. Anyone who says different is a liar. Personally, it takes me 10 minutes to check my store for product. I look at my stock, see what people have purchased, gather the money (usually about 200g per day average), and check raw material. Then I grab what I need to refill purchases, run to TS instance and create my product. Usually this takes around 20 minutes depending on sales. If I'm pressed for time, I make the most popular items, and come back later for the stuff I know doesn't sell as often. I stock around 20 items or so, usually at about 100g a piece average (some a lot less, some more). This gives me a couple hours to go do guild stuff, groups, raids, solo, whatever is going on with the guild. Usually I'll set aside a couple hours harvesting time for the weekends, and have become very good at timing my raw material needs in between. After doing guild things, or soloing, or whatever my playtime allows, I'll port to town, repair my gear, restock consumables, and park myself right next to my store. If we're doing a special raid or instance next playtime, I may park myself at or near (within the zone) that location. I don't necessarily have to check my store every day.
People buying gold with the money they earn in their good RL jobs only further reminds them of how little they really have. They use this game to escape from their real life social status. They don't want to be reminded their sword of uberness doesn't make them top shit, that it really only represents a lot of wasted time that someone else can come in and buy. Usually, I've found there is a reason someone is a failure in RL, therefore, it shows in their gameplay as well. Donald Trump has exactly the same amount of time that I do. There is no time machine that allows anyone more than 24 hours a day. Obviously, since he makes millions, and I don't, he is much better at using the time he has to make it work. It works the same way in game. If someone has a limited amount of time in game, make the most of it, or slosh around as a "failure", or quit ("failure", in this sense, is used to show how they feel about themselves because they don't have "the best" of everything in the game). It doesn't give them the right to cheat just because they can't figure out how to get what they want in a stupid video game. If they buy a way to get the item they fail to be able to get in game, they're still a failure with a fast horse or uber (insert armor/weapon). I disagree. Anyone who wastes time doing something they don't find fun is a videogame is a failure. Anyone that treats a game like work is a loser.
Don't get my wrong, I don't want to waste my money on pixels. But in order to keep up, the way most MMOs are set up, they are basically a timesink. And as a PvPer someone else having twice my HP and damage makes it impossible to enjoy the aspect of the game I do like. It would be great if the timesinks were eliminated and the playing field leveled, but it ain't going to happen. Timesinks are like crack for people with a ton of time on their hands that want to escape from RL. And that is your typical MMO player. ALL GAMES ARE TIMESINKS. If you buy Monopoly money from "the bank" with real money, so you can buy all the properties at the beginning of the game, and win, it sounds pretty ludicrous, right? But now, all of a sudden, it's ok to buy money IN A GAME, so you can "win" is still retarded and their stupidity is affecting MY gameplay. Mr. Genius, that spends real money to win at Monopoly, is ruining the gameplay of the others playing the game, because they cannot buy very many properties and now Mr. Genius is just a moron with a bunch of properties. We teach our children, well most of us, that it is wrong to cheat at games, but then they turn around and cheat, and we teach them because, "It is a good lesson in life to learn to play fairly and respect others...". If number 2 on your list of gold buyers is true, which I believe you, then that pretty much scares me that these people are raising children of their own and spreading their idiocy on to future generations. No wonder kids are so screwed up nowadays. Plus, if all the gold buyers are PvPers, fat chance, then how are these crooked "companies" making millions of dollars every year selling to a select few of PvPers that can't cut it. It's not JUST PvPer's and if these players are NOT in competition for these "uber items" then WHY DO THEY GIVE A CRAP? Why would they buy something that doesn't make any difference for them, and destroy the game for everyone? Real smooth Ex-Lax. Way to be a scumbag over something that doesn't really matter anyways. PvPers are gaining their edge by cheating and making themselves lower than the "no-lifers" that play constantly to get it themselves. At least these so called "no-lifers" have the time to get what they want, or found a way to get it by managing their time well and not resort to cheating. What "no-lifers" do in RL doesn't affect me, I could care less, but what buyers do to games DOES, and I deserve the same fairness and respect those Monopoly players deserve. I have no doubt some raiders are G buyers too. Many of them probably enjoy the complex challenge of the raid, but don't enjoy the monotonous simplistic process of farming. Unfortunately, they don't give you the tools you need to beat and instance when you zone in, you have to waste time just to do what you want to do. Monopoly is a totally different game. In monopoly you all have the same starting resources. There is no outside timesink affecting the monopoly game. It's a fair game. MMOs are not a fair game because the person with the most TIME gains and advantage in facets of gameplay that should reflect skill rather then time. The fact that you spent 40 hours this week grinding to get your axe of uberness, then you bring it into the PvP, affects my gameplay. Even if I outplay you, you may still win, cause your weapon hits twice as hard. P.S. Playing a computer game is suppose to be what you do when you are feeling lazy. If I want to work I can just stay late at the office. They pay me in $$$ instead of GGG. And the rules in life are a lot like the rules in a game. If you want more, you work more. If you don't want to work more, then you increase what you make "per time unit" by being a better player, or smarter. A cheater is a cheater, period. Nobody should ever have to work in a videogame. If a videogame forces you to engage in activities you don't enjoy for hours on end then it is a badly designed videogame. If you have the ability to get around design flaws then that's good.
I'm sure that some people enjoy writing a reply to an over-long post, with the result being a half page post............ but nobody reads something that long.
Again this is a waste of time and our judiciary. Blizzards only course of action is to ban the accounts guilty of breaking their rules. This is merely an attempt to bully a company that they think will fold. If this company stands up for itself in court this case won't even get past the preliminary hearing. There is even the chance that this could blow up in Blizzards face and they could lose the right to ban accounts for selling gold as that recourse has actually never been tested in the courts. Imagine if Southwestern Bell tried to cancel a telemarketing firms phone service for selling a competing long distance plan. It's just not allowed. Even though they reserve the right to refuse service it wouldn't fly in court.
For those of you too young to remember back in the day the phone companies wouldn't allow people to connect anything to the phone line that they didn't sell themselves. This meant (besides being forced to pay $10 a month to rent the actual phone) you couldn't connect answering machines or computers to the phoneline. It's the same thing in principle. While it's true that Blizzard is offering a service and they reserve the right to refuse that service (aka ban abusers) that doesn't mean that general law doesn't apply to how they treat businesses. Goldsellers do have protections. Until now it's been a case of spam and ban with both sides accepting the games they played. What could happen is a court ruling that would indeed give goldsellers the right to do what they do.
No matter which side you support there are laws in place that cover this sort of thing. It's just a matter of testing the application of those laws. I hope they don't settle out of court. I'm really curious to see what the courts think.
Originally posted by Kalengar No matter which side you support there are laws in place that cover this sort of thing. It's just a matter of testing the application of those laws. I hope they don't settle out of court. I'm really curious to see what the courts think.
Out of curiosity, which laws protect the right of players selling gold against Blizzard's EULA?
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Again this is a waste of time and our judiciary. Blizzards only course of action is to ban the accounts guilty of breaking their rules. This is merely an attempt to bully a company that they think will fold. If this company stands up for itself in court this case won't even get past the preliminary hearing. There is even the chance that this could blow up in Blizzards face and they could lose the right to ban accounts for selling gold as that recourse has actually never been tested in the courts. Imagine if Southwestern Bell tried to cancel a telemarketing firms phone service for selling a competing long distance plan. It's just not allowed. Even though they reserve the right to refuse service it wouldn't fly in court. For those of you too young to remember back in the day the phone companies wouldn't allow people to connect anything to the phone line that they didn't sell themselves. This meant (besides being forced to pay $10 a month to rent the actual phone) you couldn't connect answering machines or computers to the phoneline. It's the same thing in principle. While it's true that Blizzard is offering a service and they reserve the right to refuse that service (aka ban abusers) that doesn't mean that general law doesn't apply to how they treat businesses. Goldsellers do have protections. Until now it's been a case of spam and ban with both sides accepting the games they played. What could happen is a court ruling that would indeed give goldsellers the right to do what they do.
No matter which side you support there are laws in place that cover this sort of thing. It's just a matter of testing the application of those laws. I hope they don't settle out of court. I'm really curious to see what the courts think.
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
Again this is a waste of time and our judiciary. Blizzards only course of action is to ban the accounts guilty of breaking their rules. This is merely an attempt to bully a company that they think will fold. If this company stands up for itself in court this case won't even get past the preliminary hearing. There is even the chance that this could blow up in Blizzards face and they could lose the right to ban accounts for selling gold as that recourse has actually never been tested in the courts. Imagine if Southwestern Bell tried to cancel a telemarketing firms phone service for selling a competing long distance plan. It's just not allowed. Even though they reserve the right to refuse service it wouldn't fly in court. For those of you too young to remember back in the day the phone companies wouldn't allow people to connect anything to the phone line that they didn't sell themselves. This meant (besides being forced to pay $10 a month to rent the actual phone) you couldn't connect answering machines or computers to the phoneline. It's the same thing in principle. While it's true that Blizzard is offering a service and they reserve the right to refuse that service (aka ban abusers) that doesn't mean that general law doesn't apply to how they treat businesses. Goldsellers do have protections. Until now it's been a case of spam and ban with both sides accepting the games they played. What could happen is a court ruling that would indeed give goldsellers the right to do what they do.
No matter which side you support there are laws in place that cover this sort of thing. It's just a matter of testing the application of those laws. I hope they don't settle out of court. I'm really curious to see what the courts think.
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
A ruling that gold is property that could be owned would be very bad for Blizzard. Even if they were given exclusive ownership, they now have to report assets, pay taxes, etc. Whether they would be given exclusive ownership is another matter entirely. Just cause an EULA says something doesn't mean there aren't laws that conflict with the EULA. Microsoft could put a clause in its EULA that says anyone that signs up to use windows is now their slave. It would never hold up in court.
Virtual items should never be considered property; think of what would happen in Eve when someone 'stole' your loot. : )
Most likely Blizzard will file suit stating that Gold Selling is a violation of their EULA. Whether you agree that a EULA amounts to a reasonable contract doesn't matter. Blizzard can still use the EULA to bring the matter to court. To them, it's a contract that Peons4hire agreed to when they installed the game, and each time the game updates.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Trufully in the end here is whats going to happen .......
if blizzard doesnt win the court thing all gold sellers will get out of hand and destroy games or
this will happen which i suggested to soe long time ago.... NO MORE TRADING OF MONEY GOLD ETC BETWEEN PLAYERS. ALL MONEY TRANSACTION CAN ONLY BE DONE BY A NPC BETWEEN ITEMS FOR GOLD OR BY A BROKER ETC... AND ITEM CANNOT BE JACKED UP TO REFLECT SELLING OF GOLD IT CAN BE WATCHED FOR REDICULOUS PRICES MANGED MARKET!
that will destroy farmers and gold sellers stop the gold from be traded then you will stop the sellers!
Again this is a waste of time and our judiciary. Blizzards only course of action is to ban the accounts guilty of breaking their rules. This is merely an attempt to bully a company that they think will fold. If this company stands up for itself in court this case won't even get past the preliminary hearing. There is even the chance that this could blow up in Blizzards face and they could lose the right to ban accounts for selling gold as that recourse has actually never been tested in the courts. Imagine if Southwestern Bell tried to cancel a telemarketing firms phone service for selling a competing long distance plan. It's just not allowed. Even though they reserve the right to refuse service it wouldn't fly in court. For those of you too young to remember back in the day the phone companies wouldn't allow people to connect anything to the phone line that they didn't sell themselves. This meant (besides being forced to pay $10 a month to rent the actual phone) you couldn't connect answering machines or computers to the phoneline. It's the same thing in principle. While it's true that Blizzard is offering a service and they reserve the right to refuse that service (aka ban abusers) that doesn't mean that general law doesn't apply to how they treat businesses. Goldsellers do have protections. Until now it's been a case of spam and ban with both sides accepting the games they played. What could happen is a court ruling that would indeed give goldsellers the right to do what they do.
No matter which side you support there are laws in place that cover this sort of thing. It's just a matter of testing the application of those laws. I hope they don't settle out of court. I'm really curious to see what the courts think.
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
A ruling that gold is property that could be owned would be very bad for Blizzard. Even if they were given exclusive ownership, they now have to report assets, pay taxes, etc. Whether they would be given exclusive ownership is another matter entirely. Just cause an EULA says something doesn't mean there aren't laws that conflict with the EULA. Microsoft could put a clause in its EULA that says anyone that signs up to use windows is now their slave. It would never hold up in court.
If gold isn't an asset to begin with (which it isn't as it's only virtual) then in fact what the gold sellers are selling is the time in which it took to accumulate the gold. Every business calculates the price of their product by the cost and demand. For gold merchants the costs are calculated by the amount of time it takes to farm the gold plus the expenses and market demand. What they are selling is the service not the virtual item even though they may measure that service in units of gold the virtual item is merely a measurement of the service rendered.
The larger argument and the one that would most likely be taken into account by the courts would be the demand of the playerbase for such a service. Just as the demand for assets attached to the phone line is what drove the case i mentioned earlier. There is a huge demand for this kind of service. The courts would want to know what Blizzard is offering in place of the service it wants to deny. Is it worth stifling a new economic sector in an effort to respect an EULA when the producer of the game isn't willing to offer the services it's users demand?
well even if the courts dont stop gold sellers ... like i said above all blizzard and others have to do is stop the trading of gold between players then gold sellers will have to fold cause they cant sell anymore. The use of the npc and brokers in game can control the market (which blizzard can do) and destroy gold sellers thats it so blizzard can win in the end anyhow!
Again this is a waste of time and our judiciary. Blizzards only course of action is to ban the accounts guilty of breaking their rules. This is merely an attempt to bully a company that they think will fold. If this company stands up for itself in court this case won't even get past the preliminary hearing. There is even the chance that this could blow up in Blizzards face and they could lose the right to ban accounts for selling gold as that recourse has actually never been tested in the courts. Imagine if Southwestern Bell tried to cancel a telemarketing firms phone service for selling a competing long distance plan. It's just not allowed. Even though they reserve the right to refuse service it wouldn't fly in court. For those of you too young to remember back in the day the phone companies wouldn't allow people to connect anything to the phone line that they didn't sell themselves. This meant (besides being forced to pay $10 a month to rent the actual phone) you couldn't connect answering machines or computers to the phoneline. It's the same thing in principle. While it's true that Blizzard is offering a service and they reserve the right to refuse that service (aka ban abusers) that doesn't mean that general law doesn't apply to how they treat businesses. Goldsellers do have protections. Until now it's been a case of spam and ban with both sides accepting the games they played. What could happen is a court ruling that would indeed give goldsellers the right to do what they do.
No matter which side you support there are laws in place that cover this sort of thing. It's just a matter of testing the application of those laws. I hope they don't settle out of court. I'm really curious to see what the courts think.
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
A ruling that gold is property that could be owned would be very bad for Blizzard. Even if they were given exclusive ownership, they now have to report assets, pay taxes, etc. Whether they would be given exclusive ownership is another matter entirely. Just cause an EULA says something doesn't mean there aren't laws that conflict with the EULA. Microsoft could put a clause in its EULA that says anyone that signs up to use windows is now their slave. It would never hold up in court.
If gold isn't an asset to begin with (which it isn't as it's only virtual) then in fact what the gold sellers are selling is the time in which it took to accumulate the gold. Every business calculates the price of their product by the cost and demand. For gold merchants the costs are calculated by the amount of time it takes to farm the gold plus the expenses and market demand. What they are selling is the service not the virtual item even though they may measure that service in units of gold the virtual item is merely a measurement of the service rendered.
The larger argument and the one that would most likely be taken into account by the courts would be the demand of the playerbase for such a service. Just as the demand for assets attached to the phone line is what drove the case i mentioned earlier. There is a huge demand for this kind of service. The courts would want to know what Blizzard is offering in place of the service it wants to deny. Is it worth stifling a new economic sector in an effort to respect an EULA when the producer of the game isn't willing to offer the services it's users demand?
If you read the link provided on the OP you'd see they're not going after this group for gold selling they're going after them for ingame spamming.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Originally posted by bahamut1 I've been telling you guys, and telling you. You guys wouldn't listen to me... oh no. Blizzard is taking action, step by step. First it was software companies that make the bots and provide for the gold spammers. Although no definite action has been decided yet, as it is still in litigation, it will be decided soon. If you need that link, I'll dig it up, it's just not at the top of my mind atm. WoW specifically said in their article, "We have programmed steps within the game to ELIMINATE gold spamming", and in litigation now to elimate botting. Here's the LAW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA Good for Blizzard, and I wish them well. Eliminate cheaters, I'm tired of them ruining my games.
That will work only against people who are backward engineering and cracking the game code and then distribute their work and charge money for it. That won't work for sweatshop gold/plat sellers who use people and accounts to farm gold.
READ IT!! Don't just make up crap. It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or SERVICES that are used to circumvent measures that control access to copyrighted works (commonly known as DRM) and criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, even when there is no infringement of copyright itself. It also heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet. Passed on October 8, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended title 17 of the U.S. Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of Online Providers from copyright infringement by their users.
Services part of the DMCA has to do with selling backward engineered software/hardware code/specs or offering to do so. You are grasping at straws or worst yet have to work on your reading comprehension. The gold sellers are not breaking the DMCA.
Again what they are selling is time not gold. The gold they farm is freely given to the player as he/she pays for the time. The gold they farm is never taken off the server by them and they do not claim ownership of this gold as it will always reside on the Blizzard's servers. They are not cracking game code or selling said game code to other companies. So unless Blizzard claims a copyright for the concept of time they can't do anything but go after the aggressive companies who directly market and harass players in game.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
sorry buying of time crap does not work in a court sistuation....
First in order to sell something as a comapny you must sell a product not time that is law......
Next when you buy you recieve personal property from blizzard .....thats like saying if i stole someone tv and sold it to you for the time it took me is that right ? nope you be in jail like me !!!!! the time thing is incorrect its illegal period to sell others property without permission from said company ! So the time thing is shot sorry!
Originally posted by PerryPanther sorry buying of time crap does not work in a court sistuation.... First in order to sell something as a comapny you must sell a product not time that is law...... Next when you buy you recieve personal property from blizzard .....thats like saying if i stole someone tv and sold it to you for the time it took me is that right ? nope you be in jail like me !!!!! the time thing is incorrect its illegal period to sell others property without permission from said company ! So the time thing is shot sorry!
<Mod edit>. Please point to the law where in the Untied States are you obligated to sell a real world product? What the hell do you think lawyers charge you for when you pay their lawyer fees ?? Here is a freaking hint : They bill you for their TIME!!!! spent advocating your case in a court of law son.
This is the reason why SOE could never file a case against plat sellers in EQ1 or 2 because their lawyers realized that gold sellers weren't really selling in game currency but the time it took to farm it. Any good lawyer worth his/her expensive $1000 dollar suit can easily defend the issue of selling time spent to farm virtual gold to players.
Oh and your analogy is flawed. Gold sellers are not stealing property because they never removed or owned anything to begin with on an a MMO server. They have no control or ownership over the Blizzard servers, or software. Virtual gold is not considered to be real property because you can't own it as Blizzard owns the servers, software and thus the make believe gold which they can make go poof if they wanted too. If Blizzard decided to wipe their servers of all in game gold they could do this because you and all players in game including gold farmers have no right to this make believe currency. So please stop grasping at straws.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Thats true they are selling time. They could argue that whats wrong with helping make life easier for people who have less time to play. Also there is no product in this situation only a service because game gold isn't real currency or a product.
Comments
Until the root cause of gold selling, the demand of the product, is addressed it is all just a big band aid.
Exactly! Blizzard (and most other MMOS) use accumulating gold or plat or whatever as a time sink, and make things players would really want cost alot of money. Until people either stop playing for the endgame instead of enjoying themselves, or developers make games where you don't need to grind money like that, people will sell gold. It's capitalism.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Heh I dont know.
Don't think that just because IGE is the most popular, they can hire a trial lawyer that can outperform Blizzard.
Blizzard makes millions in profit A MONTH from WoW. IGE only like .04% of that. Blizzard can decimate IGN into the ground just from drawn out legal hearings alone.
As far as Im concerned, the more Plat sellers gets nuked, the better.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Most gold buyers are one of two types:
1) Mommy and daddy have lots of money (this is really a parenting issue, they aren't spending their own money).
2) They are adults with real jobs and/or families.
Take myself. I'm an actuary. In the actuarial profession you get raises and promotions for passing certification examinations. I just passed one a week ago. Each exam is like a 5-10k raise easy. Now, with only a fraction of the money from passing that exam I can purchase gold equivilant to what I would have farmed in the same number of hours I spent studying for the test.
Which sounds like more of a loser wannabe thing to do. Spent hundreds of hours mindlessly grinding mobs so I can buy some pixels, or engage in activities that advance my career and earnings potential while using a fraction of that to remain competitive in a hobby I enjoy.
Most people I meet with lots of gold or loot are the unemployed or underemployed. Neglectful parents, flunking college students, gamestop register jockies. These people don't mind farming their gold in game BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO. They are losers in RL, they use the game to feel important.
People buying gold with the money they earn in their good RL jobs only further reminds them of how little they really have. They use this game to escape from their real life social status. They don't want to be reminded their sword of uberness doesn't make them top shit, that it really only represents a lot of wasted time that someone else can come in and buy.
Don't get my wrong, I don't want to waste my money on pixels. But in order to keep up, the way most MMOs are set up, they are basically a timesink. And as a PvPer someone else having twice my HP and damage makes it impossible to enjoy the aspect of the game I do like. It would be great if the timesinks were eliminated and the playing field leveled, but it ain't going to happen. Timesinks are like crack for people with a ton of time on their hands that want to escape from RL. And that is your typical MMO player.
P.S. Playing a computer game is suppose to be what you do when you are feeling lazy. If I want to work I can just stay late at the office. They pay me in $$$ instead of GGG.
They can also bring in a seperate hearing criminal charges depending on the location of the goldselling companies. These charges would include spamming, which many countries are just now inacting laws to make it illegal to spam someone. The reason people have not sued or brought criminal charges earlier is the fact that most of these laws are just now coming into being and being tested in the court of law. In almost every instance they have been judged in favor of the companies and individuals bringing the charges against the spammers. By pushing this Blizzard is setting the bar for both civil and criminal law that is being tested and I believe only Blizzard will have the wherewithall to bring it to completion.
I don't play the game anymore, but Bully to you Blizzard and good luck.
Hm. Go bliz?
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
actually idk if they ask for a CC or not BUT i heard on a trial you can't interact with anyone unless they start talkin first.you can't even trade with anyone on a trial key.so idk how exactly the gold seller losers do it. i know i met some one on a trial before they had signed my guild charter (just a guild for my alts) and i couldn't trade or mail him the 50s i offered to get people to sign the charter and leave.
they COULD use a prepaid throw away card tho, and some gift cards you can get at malls can be used also. use to play EQOA and couldn't find cards for it anymore so i started buyin gift cards from the mall.
I'm sure that some people enjoy writing a reply to an over-long post, with the result being a half page post............ but nobody reads something that long.
Just an FYI to save you time......
Again this is a waste of time and our judiciary. Blizzards only course of action is to ban the accounts guilty of breaking their rules. This is merely an attempt to bully a company that they think will fold. If this company stands up for itself in court this case won't even get past the preliminary hearing. There is even the chance that this could blow up in Blizzards face and they could lose the right to ban accounts for selling gold as that recourse has actually never been tested in the courts. Imagine if Southwestern Bell tried to cancel a telemarketing firms phone service for selling a competing long distance plan. It's just not allowed. Even though they reserve the right to refuse service it wouldn't fly in court.
For those of you too young to remember back in the day the phone companies wouldn't allow people to connect anything to the phone line that they didn't sell themselves. This meant (besides being forced to pay $10 a month to rent the actual phone) you couldn't connect answering machines or computers to the phoneline. It's the same thing in principle. While it's true that Blizzard is offering a service and they reserve the right to refuse that service (aka ban abusers) that doesn't mean that general law doesn't apply to how they treat businesses. Goldsellers do have protections. Until now it's been a case of spam and ban with both sides accepting the games they played. What could happen is a court ruling that would indeed give goldsellers the right to do what they do.
No matter which side you support there are laws in place that cover this sort of thing. It's just a matter of testing the application of those laws. I hope they don't settle out of court. I'm really curious to see what the courts think.
Out of curiosity, which laws protect the right of players selling gold against Blizzard's EULA?
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
A ruling that gold is property that could be owned would be very bad for Blizzard. Even if they were given exclusive ownership, they now have to report assets, pay taxes, etc. Whether they would be given exclusive ownership is another matter entirely. Just cause an EULA says something doesn't mean there aren't laws that conflict with the EULA. Microsoft could put a clause in its EULA that says anyone that signs up to use windows is now their slave. It would never hold up in court.
Virtual items should never be considered property; think of what would happen in Eve when someone 'stole' your loot. : )
Most likely Blizzard will file suit stating that Gold Selling is a violation of their EULA. Whether you agree that a EULA amounts to a reasonable contract doesn't matter. Blizzard can still use the EULA to bring the matter to court. To them, it's a contract that Peons4hire agreed to when they installed the game, and each time the game updates.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Trufully in the end here is whats going to happen .......
if blizzard doesnt win the court thing all gold sellers will get out of hand and destroy games or
this will happen which i suggested to soe long time ago.... NO MORE TRADING OF MONEY GOLD ETC BETWEEN PLAYERS. ALL MONEY TRANSACTION CAN ONLY BE DONE BY A NPC BETWEEN ITEMS FOR GOLD OR BY A BROKER ETC... AND ITEM CANNOT BE JACKED UP TO REFLECT SELLING OF GOLD IT CAN BE WATCHED FOR REDICULOUS PRICES MANGED MARKET!
that will destroy farmers and gold sellers stop the gold from be traded then you will stop the sellers!
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
A ruling that gold is property that could be owned would be very bad for Blizzard. Even if they were given exclusive ownership, they now have to report assets, pay taxes, etc. Whether they would be given exclusive ownership is another matter entirely. Just cause an EULA says something doesn't mean there aren't laws that conflict with the EULA. Microsoft could put a clause in its EULA that says anyone that signs up to use windows is now their slave. It would never hold up in court.
If gold isn't an asset to begin with (which it isn't as it's only virtual) then in fact what the gold sellers are selling is the time in which it took to accumulate the gold. Every business calculates the price of their product by the cost and demand. For gold merchants the costs are calculated by the amount of time it takes to farm the gold plus the expenses and market demand. What they are selling is the service not the virtual item even though they may measure that service in units of gold the virtual item is merely a measurement of the service rendered.
The larger argument and the one that would most likely be taken into account by the courts would be the demand of the playerbase for such a service. Just as the demand for assets attached to the phone line is what drove the case i mentioned earlier. There is a huge demand for this kind of service. The courts would want to know what Blizzard is offering in place of the service it wants to deny. Is it worth stifling a new economic sector in an effort to respect an EULA when the producer of the game isn't willing to offer the services it's users demand?
But isnt the fact that gold companies are selling a product belonging to blizzard the main reason for the lawsuit? I mean you make a good point but what im tyring to ask is wether these gold companies are doing something illegal to begin with. Forget players buying gold and breaking the EULA and stuff. What im trying to find out wether blizzard has a right to suit because the gold companies are selling something that isnt inherently theirs?
I dont play Blizz games but this case could affect how companies deal w these issues in the future so im very interested.
A ruling that gold is property that could be owned would be very bad for Blizzard. Even if they were given exclusive ownership, they now have to report assets, pay taxes, etc. Whether they would be given exclusive ownership is another matter entirely. Just cause an EULA says something doesn't mean there aren't laws that conflict with the EULA. Microsoft could put a clause in its EULA that says anyone that signs up to use windows is now their slave. It would never hold up in court.
If gold isn't an asset to begin with (which it isn't as it's only virtual) then in fact what the gold sellers are selling is the time in which it took to accumulate the gold. Every business calculates the price of their product by the cost and demand. For gold merchants the costs are calculated by the amount of time it takes to farm the gold plus the expenses and market demand. What they are selling is the service not the virtual item even though they may measure that service in units of gold the virtual item is merely a measurement of the service rendered.
The larger argument and the one that would most likely be taken into account by the courts would be the demand of the playerbase for such a service. Just as the demand for assets attached to the phone line is what drove the case i mentioned earlier. There is a huge demand for this kind of service. The courts would want to know what Blizzard is offering in place of the service it wants to deny. Is it worth stifling a new economic sector in an effort to respect an EULA when the producer of the game isn't willing to offer the services it's users demand?
If you read the link provided on the OP you'd see they're not going after this group for gold selling they're going after them for ingame spamming.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Services part of the DMCA has to do with selling backward engineered software/hardware code/specs or offering to do so. You are grasping at straws or worst yet have to work on your reading comprehension. The gold sellers are not breaking the DMCA.
Again what they are selling is time not gold. The gold they farm is freely given to the player as he/she pays for the time. The gold they farm is never taken off the server by them and they do not claim ownership of this gold as it will always reside on the Blizzard's servers. They are not cracking game code or selling said game code to other companies. So unless Blizzard claims a copyright for the concept of time they can't do anything but go after the aggressive companies who directly market and harass players in game.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
sorry buying of time crap does not work in a court sistuation....
First in order to sell something as a comapny you must sell a product not time that is law......
Next when you buy you recieve personal property from blizzard .....thats like saying if i stole someone tv and sold it to you for the time it took me is that right ? nope you be in jail like me !!!!! the time thing is incorrect its illegal period to sell others property without permission from said company ! So the time thing is shot sorry!
<Mod edit>. Please point to the law where in the Untied States are you obligated to sell a real world product? What the hell do you think lawyers charge you for when you pay their lawyer fees ?? Here is a freaking hint : They bill you for their TIME!!!! spent advocating your case in a court of law son.
This is the reason why SOE could never file a case against plat sellers in EQ1 or 2 because their lawyers realized that gold sellers weren't really selling in game currency but the time it took to farm it. Any good lawyer worth his/her expensive $1000 dollar suit can easily defend the issue of selling time spent to farm virtual gold to players.
Oh and your analogy is flawed. Gold sellers are not stealing property because they never removed or owned anything to begin with on an a MMO server. They have no control or ownership over the Blizzard servers, or software. Virtual gold is not considered to be real property because you can't own it as Blizzard owns the servers, software and thus the make believe gold which they can make go poof if they wanted too. If Blizzard decided to wipe their servers of all in game gold they could do this because you and all players in game including gold farmers have no right to this make believe currency. So please stop grasping at straws.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)