Launch in 2008

Elsabolts · June 2007

Anyone else heard that this may be delayed till 2008 to upgrade it to DX-10 and Vista ready machines. In order to compete with AOC amd Warhammer coming out then.

Bodysnatcher · June 2007

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO say it ain't so.

SanDalghi · June 2007

No, nobody has heard that, because it isn't true. I won't speculate on your motives for posting the question....

RickSaada · June 2007

Uh, no. You don't upgrade a game for DX-10. It's not "backwardly compatible" but instead runs side by side with DX-9. As I understand it you pretty much start over if you're writing a DX-10 engine, and then you have a game that won't run on anything EXCEPT Vista machines. So no, we aren't rewriting the game for DX-10 and Vista, and have no plans to do so. Although I am curious just where you heard that, because we've never said it. And why would we *choose* to compete with AoC and WO? Believe me, while we don't want to ship this game before it's ready, we're not going to hold it back for crazy reasons either!

Rick Saada

FLS Developer and EPFBM

0over0 · June 2007

Originally posted by RickSaada

Uh, no. You don't upgrade a game for DX-10. It's not "backwardly compatible" but instead runs side by side with DX-9. As I understand it you pretty much start over if you're writing a DX-10 engine, and then you have a game that won't run on anything EXCEPT Vista machines. So no, we aren't rewriting the game for DX-10 and Vista, and have no plans to do so. Although I am curious just where you heard that, because we've never said it. And why would we *choose* to compete with AoC and WO? Believe me, while we don't want to ship this game before it's ready, we're not going to hold it back for crazy reasons either!
Rick Saada
FLS Developer and EPFBM

Quoted for awesomeness.

canzanito · June 2007

Thats what I wanted to hear, thanks for clearing up what this ashole said

deplorable · June 2007

Originally posted by RickSaada

Uh, no. You don't upgrade a game for DX-10. It's not "backwardly compatible" but instead runs side by side with DX-9. As I understand it you pretty much start over if you're writing a DX-10 engine, and then you have a game that won't run on anything EXCEPT Vista machines. So no, we aren't rewriting the game for DX-10 and Vista, and have no plans to do so. Although I am curious just where you heard that, because we've never said it. And why would we *choose* to compete with AoC and WO? Believe me, while we don't want to ship this game before it's ready, we're not going to hold it back for crazy reasons either!
Rick Saada
FLS Developer and EPFBM

And the winner... and overall awesome post goes to... *ding* *ding*

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bEBbu-wkKrs

sing with me, me heartiies arghh ...

Dis_Ordur · June 2007

Originally posted by RickSaada

Uh, no. You don't upgrade a game for DX-10. It's not "backwardly compatible" but instead runs side by side with DX-9. As I understand it you pretty much start over if you're writing a DX-10 engine, and then you have a game that won't run on anything EXCEPT Vista machines. So no, we aren't rewriting the game for DX-10 and Vista, and have no plans to do so. Although I am curious just where you heard that, because we've never said it. And why would we *choose* to compete with AoC and WO? Believe me, while we don't want to ship this game before it's ready, we're not going to hold it back for crazy reasons either!
Rick Saada
FLS Developer and EPFBM

Please don't take these questions the wrong way, I am only asking them since I have seen quite a bit about this game, but not a lot of indicators that it will ever release:

How are you keeping your game engine current? Hasn't this been in development for 5+ years now?

How do you plan on releasing, through box sales or DL?

For a game involving pirates, boats, land and simple melee without spell particles and etc, why exactly is this game taking so long?

Do you have a really complex and extensive crafting system?

Have you come to regret hyping this game for the last three years, only to dash the hopes of your fans with repeated pushbacks?

Why didn't you guys keep the game under wraps for a decent amount of time instead of feeding the hype machine?

What percentage of your game is playable at this point?

Why so few beta invites?

Why do your screenshots always look the same?

Again, I am not trying to be mean here, but a lot of those titles on the left hand side of the screen have turned out to be either scams or flops. No videogame on Earth, especially a simpler setting like Pirates should take remotely this long, I am simply trying to understand... And yes, I will definitely give this game a whirl, if it ever actually sees the light of day...

RickSaada · June 2007

> How are you keeping your game engine current? Hasn't this been in development for 5+ years now?
Well it hasn't been *that* long, although it has been a lot longer than we would have liked.   But if you check out the screenshots I think you'll see that our environments, ships, and avatars are all pretty damn nice.   So we're not worried about looking "dated".
>How do you plan on releasing, through box sales or DL?
Still in the works. Ideally both, but that's just my opinion, and not necessarily the way things will work out.   There's a long discussion thread in the News section of our forums about the current state of contract negotations where our CEO talks about it.
> For a game involving pirates, boats, land and simple melee without spell particles and etc, why exactly is this game taking so long?
Spoken like someone who hasn't tried to write an MMO .   Seriously, we've had boats in the game for a long time. But we didn't decide to do avatar combat until relatively recently (see below). And we're a small team. Until about a year ago we were under 20 people.   That kept overhead down while we figured out a lot of the systems, and then we ramped up art and content to fill out the world.   But it takes a long time to create 1000 missions per nation and to build all those ports.
> Do you have a really complex and extensive crafting system?
Yes. If you look at the devlogs section on your site you'll find a lot of information from ilsidur about it. Start here:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10253
and continue with the link to the forums where there are pages and pages of Q&A about it.
> Have you come to regret hyping this game for the last three years, only to dash the hopes of your fans with repeated pushbacks?
>Why didn't you guys keep the game under wraps for a decent amount of time instead of feeding the hype machine?
I'll take those two together. When we started this project years ago, it had a very different scope. Our goal was to make a nice simple little ship combat MMO with cheezy graphics, self publish it, and then use the money from that to fund doing all the rest.   It didn't quite work out that way.   At several points in our development, we looked at  what we had, what the market was doing, and how it reacted to various events, and we changed the scope of the project. We learned from watching SWG that you really only get to launch once. Even adding a major feature (like spaceship combat for them) doesn't really get people to come back and look at you if they've already passed you by.   We learned that sexy graphics are more important than most gamers will admit, and abandoned the cartoonly look in favor of more realistic ones. We learned that you really need to have all the pieces in place, such as Avatar Combat, even if you'd rather add them later. And we learned that  everything always takes longer than you think. Actually, given that many of us worked at Microsoft and shipped many projects there, we already knew this, but as usual needed to be reminded!    And we've watched too many games launched prematurely and been stillborn as a result.   As a gamer, I don't want to play a buggy game, and as a programmer I don't want to ship one, either. Given the choice between shipping it now and shipping it right, I'll take right.
So given a crystal ball we might have done things differently. At each step, we've done our best to keep the fans informed of where we were and where we thought we were going. In most cases, our fans have been disappointed we were slipping but happy about why. It's always a juggling act between getting a game out sooner and getting a game out that will sell.
> What percentage of your game is playable at this point?
Basically all of it.
>Why so few beta invites?
Because that's a recent thing.   There's a limit to how much we were willing to expand the beta before the pieces were in place. You don't want to have a lot of disappointed beta players looking at broken stuff. There is a certain amount of utility of having people testing the parts that were ready for testing (so we could find and fix the broken stuff), and we let in the number of people we needed for that. They've done a great job for us, and we've been really happy with the feedback we've gotten so far (both good and bad). Remember, closed beta is for *our* use, not the players, so we let in the number we need. Now, however, that is going to change, as Rusty talks about here:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10313
This beta expansion will help us with parts of the game that are now ready for people to see and play. Swordfighting, boarding, port conquest, and other fun things are ready to go, and we're expanding the beta this month because of it. Now Open Beta, that's another matter. *I* would like to do one, but that's me talking, not FLS. Unlike Closed Beta, that's more for the fans to get a taste of the game, and to iron out any scaling issues before ship.   I think LotRO did a good job with using OB as a segue between CB and ship, and we'll be looking at the feasability of doing something similar. But as I said, no promises from me
> Why do your screenshots always look the same?
Urm. Sorry, that's an art question While I'm not really qualified (having done my last shipped artwork on Castle of the Winds in 1989) I would submit that while they are all a similar STYLE, there is a lot of variety in imagery and content. Similar to how WoW has a colorful cartoony style and is consistent within that, ours has a more vibrant and painterly look, and we're consistent within that. It's called strong art direction and it keeps from having the "all over the place" look that plagues some games.   Still, nobody is going to mistake the Pirate starter town for the English one, or the French one, or the Spanish one.
> Again, I am not trying to be mean here, but a lot of those titles on the left hand side of the screen have turned out to be either scams or flops. No videogame on Earth, especially a simpler setting like Pirates should take remotely this long, I am simply trying to understand... And yes, I will definitely give this game a whirl, if it ever actually sees the light of day...
No offense taken, they're legitimate questions and asked in a more polite way than the internet norm! The game *will* ship, and I hope you'll enjoy it when it does.
Rick Saada
FLS Developer and EPFBM

Shogunite · June 2007

The fact that guys working on the game will stop by not only their official forums, but MMORPG, and then take the time to answer fans or interested players questions is another thing that should let you know how serious about this game they are, and how seriously they take the players

"In most cases, our fans have been disappointed we were slipping but happy about why. "

Absolutely, I'd rather have it late, but done right, than tomorrow and barely playable.

As for Beta, too many people take beta as a preview rather than a bug-killing exercise to fix the game for launch. Open it up to too many players, and you'll get a higher ammount of them thinking "i'll not bother with this game, it's too buggy and taking too long". Hence the beta atm is closed, and they only let in players in small numbers, and ones they hope they can trust to treat it as they need them to, helping to get a game ready for launch, not just a few months of free play time before everyone else can play.

phaylen · June 2007

lol according to MMORPG this was released yesterday! I have been hearing about the title off and on for a *long* time, saw the release date and gave it my consideration by coming here to see what you all had to say. Was such a pleasure to see the Dev respond to inquiries. It reminded me of the days when Devs cared about people!

0over0 · June 2007

People always complain that this game has been in development for such a "long" time. Would it be better if all companies and Devs took Bioware's approach (and I do very much like Bioware's games) to MMO development with an information black hole? Or is it better to be included and know what's going on?

For the record, this game is taking as much time as any other AAA title does--it's just that you get more information.

Keogh · June 2007

Also, keep in mind that this project is, and always has been a self funded labor of love for the developers of this game. There is no deep pocket and shadowy mega corporation funding this.

Rehmes · June 2007

I dont mind how long their taking to release it. Its amazing people come and complain how vabguard was released too early and blag blah, yet still whine when games get pushed back so they can iron things out. I think FLS has been doing a good job at keeping people informed and for those who think 'pirates setting is easier than fantary' needs to honestly read into the game some more.

rappaport · June 2007

All good answers, I apprecieate and agree with all the decisions made by the Devs. However, it has been aa while and i personally really want to try it... so please invite me to beta asap. Thank you. I dont care about the bugs.

Also, I think the decision made about impoving the graphics was absoloutely critical and necessary. This is one of the few groups really trying somthing a bit different in my opinion.

Jetrpg · June 2007

Originally posted by Elsabolts

Anyone else heard that this may be delayed till 2008 to upgrade it to DX-10 and Vista ready machines. In order to compete with AOC amd Warhammer coming out then.

yeah his is not happening seeing as WAR is a DX-9 anyway. Which they should change but oh well.

Orihuela · June 2007

LOTRO take 8 years to be released

(Middle-Earth Online 1999) and I think that LOTRO was the most polished MMO at launch!

RickSaada · June 2007

Originally posted by Orihuela

LOTRO take 8 years to be released (Middle-Earth Online 1999) and I think that LOTRO was the most polished MMO at launch!

Heh. Amusingly enough, our Dev Manager was *on* that project. But of course that one was cancelled years ago. In fact I think the current LotRO is the *third* attempt at doing a Middle Earth MMO, but I may have lost count along the way.

Rick Saada

FLS Developer and EPFBM

Annekynn · June 2007

When we started this project years ago, it had a very different scope. Our goal was to make a nice simple little ship combat MMO with cheezy graphics, self publish it, and then use the money from that to fund doing all the rest. It didn't quite work out that way. At several points in our development, we looked at what we had, what the market was doing, and how it reacted to various events, and we changed the scope of the project. We learned from watching SWG that you really only get to launch once. Even adding a major feature (like spaceship combat for them) doesn't really get people to come back and look at you if they've already passed you buy. We learned that sexy graphics are more important than most gamers will admit, and abandoned the cartoonly look in favor of more realistic ones. We learned that you really need to have all the pieces in place, such as Avatar Combat, even if you'd rather add them later. And we learned that everything always takes longer than you think. Actually, given that many of us worked at Microsoft and shipped many projects there, we already knew this, but as usual needed to be reminded! And we've watched too many games launched prematurely and been stillborn as a result. As a gamer, I don't want to play a buggy game, and as a programmer I don't want to ship one, either. Given the choice between shipping it now and shipping it right, I'll take right.

This is the best thing I have ever read from any game developer. Thank you!

Ainshent · June 2007

I really hate to sound like an asshat here, but, this isn't our world on the line. There is a company out there that has invested a substanial amount of time and money creating it. It's their world, and when they say it's time, we get to play in it. To question their decision to delay release is in my opinion....selfish. To question anything pertaining to the game as a matter of fact I find selfish. I'm sure there are families whose quality of life will be affected by how well this game goes over in the gaming community. We in the gaming community are merciless, a bad release can be catastrophic to a game. Anyone who questions the delay of release....relax. Don't you think that the devs want to release it as much as you want to play it? More so I'll bet. When it's ready, I'm sure you'll hear about it. Until then put forth a little effort to contribute instead of criticize. Additionally, I know the supporters heavily outweigh the belly achers here, this is directed at the select few that are crying about this and that.
Mr. Saada, thank you for your responses in this thread. There arn't too many companies that put forth the effort I've seen from you to accomodate the posters here. The game is looking great and I can't wait to give you guys some money. Pat the crew on the back, tell them to keep up the good work and I'll see ya on the open seas.

RogueSeven · June 2007

seeing as it mmorpg.com said it was to be out yesterday, i called up gamestop and best buy, neither had it, is there a set release date yet?

hazmats · June 2007

Originally posted by RogueSeven
seeing as it mmorpg.com said it was to be out yesterday, i called up gamestop and best buy, neither had it, is there a set release date yet?

Nope, no date has ever been set. Just estimations

Ponico · June 2007

In my own opinion. The last few MMOs that came out were generation 3 and let's just say, it's the dark age of MMO. Everyone trying to become the next WOW, everyone trying to race their release against each other, everyone failing and left to slowly die. This so called third generation of MMOs are dead trees planted in the middle of a city. As we move forward in time, the tree simply continues to decay and loose it's leafs.

Pirates is part of the fourth generation in my opinion. A time where the devs actually tried their best to make it right. They stayed true to their vision, got a community involved in their project and made sure that their game was ready for the market. They took the ID software approach where we say: "WHEN IT IS DONE!" and it's about time that someone decides to do it right.

While the first generation introduced a new possibility to the world of gaming. Games such as Mankind, Everquest and Ultima Online made a template for everyone. The second generation brough many more players into the market and basically games became bigger then movie releases. Even SWG cannot be considered a total failure, I for one had a great time until NGE. The third generation like Vanguard was simply a failure. It didn't last long and the mistakes that were made in that short time, quickly made most unreleased games jump to a fourth generation. Now I have the impression that we're about to enter a new era again and Pirates is one of the first one to take a leap into it. Many more good games will eventually spawn, but right now, I believe that pirates will set a new template for the rest of the world.

Aetern-e · June 2007

That's it. I'm playing this game, since the developer that answered this, it was so honorful. I've hardly ever seen a developer stand out to the fans and posters and heed their call for answers. I hope that everyone will have a great time playing, cause I think I will be trying this out.

Keogh · June 2007

Originally posted by RickSaada

Originally posted by Orihuela

LOTRO take 8 years to be released (Middle-Earth Online 1999) and I think that LOTRO was the most polished MMO at launch!

Heh. Amusingly enough, our Dev Manager was *on* that project. But of course that one was cancelled years ago. In fact I think the current LotRO is the *third* attempt at doing a Middle Earth MMO, but I may have lost count along the way.

Rick Saada

FLS Developer and EPFBM

Rick,

Thank you for posting. Its nice to know that you are watching this forum as well as others.

I agree, "you only get one chance to make a good first impression". So take your time and do it right.

I whish the people at FLS much success!

medic7103 · June 2007

I admit I have been put off by the changes in release dates and how long it's taken to see this game but, Rick Saada has completely changed my view on this. His response was spot on! You can bet I'll be grabbing this the day it's released. Good job takingthe high road devs.

Now somebody get the whip and drums and get them to work that good only FASTER!

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