Yeah, well I'm getting sick of everytime someone says "This looks like WoW" there is always somebody who has to open his mouth and explain in great detail why WoW is a rip off of everything else, but that doesn't stop you from doing it.
let me explain to you what WoW DID do first. WoW was the first MMO that took content from other MMO's, actually improved that content and made it avaible to casual gamers. WoW is one of the first MMORPG where you can actually acomplish something in short time bursts.
First off, EQ2 came out around the same time as WoW so take that off your list.
As far as the classes and pretty much the entire game as for as you say...
EQ didn't invent them.
Those classes come from DnD and other pen and paper roleplaying games. And DND and such got them from myths, legends, stories, history, and books.
Besides, it's not about that stuff that makes it a WoW clone.
I do, though, agree in that a lot of "WoW clones" arent really WoW clones. Maybe NGE SW:G..at least it attempted to be.
Also, you only mention the EQ series in your post. However, you go on to say that WoW took everything from other games. Can ya name a few to keep yourself consistent?
Finally, no game has yet even come close to threatening WoW. Maybe that will change. Besides, WoW wasn't created with too much originality in mind. Blizzard=perfection of an exisiting game type. Not much originality. (Before I get flamed, I said much, NOT any!)
Why should I be consistent? Who needs consistency? this is a forum....
When everyone else starts being consistent then I will as well.
Yeah, well I'm getting sick of everytime someone says "This looks like WoW" there is always somebody who has to open his mouth and explain in great detail why WoW is a rip off of everything else, but that doesn't stop you from doing it.
let me explain to you what WoW DID do first. WoW was the first MMO that took content from other MMO's, actually improved that content and made it avaible to casual gamers. WoW is one of the first MMORPG where you can actually acomplish something in short time bursts.
Yep and every time someone complains about WoW being a ripoff someone complains about that,as your doing. It's a vicious cycle really.
WOW that is certainly a matter of opinion about content used properly. If Blizzard ever did anything right I would be utterly amazed.
Originally posted by Gameloading Yeah, well I'm getting sick of everytime someone says "This looks like WoW" there is always somebody who has to open his mouth and explain in great detail why WoW is a rip off of everything else, but that doesn't stop you from doing it.
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didnt want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
Yeah, well I'm getting sick of everytime someone says "This looks like WoW" there is always somebody who has to open his mouth and explain in great detail why WoW is a rip off of everything else, but that doesn't stop you from doing it.
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didn’t want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
I don't have to hear the same thing over and over and over again. I know that WoW isn't original in in terms of the points the OP posted, but it was original (back when it was released) with the things I posted.
For example, yesterday I was watching some videos on youtube about WAR. while reading the comments, one person posted "This looks like WoW" which is completely understandable, because if you haven't done much research on WAR and you see it for the first time, WAR does look very similar to WoW, same graphics style, combat looks very similar, etc. the next 5 or 10 comments were filled by people repeating over and over again how much WoW sucked and how much WoW is a clone of everything else, instead of just simply explaining the differences between WAR and WoW.
EQ2 was made much more casual player friendly because of WoW's success.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOEs part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didnt cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Yeah, well I'm getting sick of everytime someone says "This looks like WoW" there is always somebody who has to open his mouth and explain in great detail why WoW is a rip off of everything else, but that doesn't stop you from doing it.
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didn’t want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
I don't have to hear the same thing over and over and over again. I know that WoW isn't original in in terms of the points the OP posted, but it was original (back when it was released) with the things I posted.
For example, yesterday I was watching some videos on youtube about WAR. while reading the comments, one person posted "This looks like WoW" which is completely understandable, because if you haven't done much research on WAR and you see it for the first time, WAR does look very similar to WoW, same graphics style, combat looks very similar, etc. the next 5 or 10 comments were filled by people repeating over and over again how much WoW sucked and how much WoW is a clone of everything else, instead of just simply explaining the differences between WAR and WoW.
Again why would you object to hearing the truth over and over again unless you didn’t want people to hear the truth? Blizzard copied the Warhammer art style and lore when they made Warcraft, that is a simple fact, why on earth would you ever object telling that to the people who don’t already know?
As other have pointed out, WoW didn’t invent any of those things either, and on at least one point you have it completely backwards. WoW is not a causal game, it’s one of the most heavy grind games on the market and simply uses early solo play to bait the hook. Solo play isn’t quite the same thing as casual however, there is hardcore solo play as well and WoW is big into that as well.
Yeah, well I'm getting sick of everytime someone says "This looks like WoW" there is always somebody who has to open his mouth and explain in great detail why WoW is a rip off of everything else, but that doesn't stop you from doing it.
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didn’t want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
I don't have to hear the same thing over and over and over again. I know that WoW isn't original in in terms of the points the OP posted, but it was original (back when it was released) with the things I posted.
For example, yesterday I was watching some videos on youtube about WAR. while reading the comments, one person posted "This looks like WoW" which is completely understandable, because if you haven't done much research on WAR and you see it for the first time, WAR does look very similar to WoW, same graphics style, combat looks very similar, etc. the next 5 or 10 comments were filled by people repeating over and over again how much WoW sucked and how much WoW is a clone of everything else, instead of just simply explaining the differences between WAR and WoW.
Again why would you object to hearing the truth over and over again unless you didn’t want people to hear the truth? Blizzard copied the Warhammer art style and lore when they made Warcraft, that is a simple fact, why on earth would you ever object telling that to the people who don’t already know?
As other have pointed out, WoW didn’t invent any of those things either, and on at least one point you have it completely backwards. WoW is not a causal game, it’s one of the most heavy grind games on the market and simply uses early solo play to bait the hook. Solo play isn’t quite the same thing as casual however, there is hardcore solo play as well and WoW is big into that as well.
Because it gets annoying? Also it has nothing to do with the subject. If someone says "Oh, Game A looks like WoW" then why do you feel a need to tell that WoW looks like another game that has nothing to do with the subject?. Also, others have NOT pointed out that others games are like that, City of Heroes is a poor example because its not like WoW. it doesn't bring the same content WoW does in a casual experience. Everquest 2 became like that after carefully looking at WoW, it changed a lot over the years. And I didn't have it completely backwards, the endgame content is NOT the full game. nobody is forcing you to stay at the endgame but you.
Originally posted by Obee EQ2 was made much more casual player friendly because of WoW's success.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOE’s part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didn’t cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Leveling and solo play is much easier now than when EQ2 was released. Crafting is much more simplified into the WoW model, meaning that little to no interaction is required to make things, than when the game was released. They removed most of the required subcomponents and loot components.
The only Everquest stiff being brought into the game is lore and loot. They aren't adding in game mechanics from Everquest. The current version of EQ is much more like WoW than it was at release. At the time of release, EQ2 was much more like EQ than WoW. That inst the case today.
EQ and WoW are very similar, in that from low level to high levels, you can play solo, but if you want the best equipment, you need to do the group quests. In fact, out of the main storyline quests, EQ2 has fewer that are intended for groups than WoW does. WoW has several group instanced quests in the main storyline set of quests, almost all of EQ2's group quests are optional side quests and mini storylines.
When EQ2 launched, quests were required to select your general class and your specific subclass. That was deemed to difficult by SOE and they made class selection a character creation choice. They also had a quest to unlock alternate player races (Froglok, which they lied about being in the game for six months prior to actually adding it).
EQ2 is an easier and much more solaable game today than when it was released. This is due to the success of World of Warcraft. I'm not trying to be negative about EQ2, it is currently SOE's best game, and if SOE employees would act professionally towards their customers (mainly the ones who work in Austin who are generally openly hostile towards their customers), I would still be playing it.
The reality is that WoW's success changed the way SOE, and many other companies, view what players want out of a game. Instead of taking the primary desire, a game that works at release without too many issues, they decided that people want simplified and easy games that hold their hand from start to finish.
I don't believe EQ2 was ever anything like EQ other then the lore and they even said that it wasn't going to be like EQ when it first came out. They added locked encounters which I dislike a lot from the start. They made ever class solo capable against solo tagged mobs which is differnt then EQ. The graphics had a very differnt feeling to them. The way the game starts you is so very differnt feeling to the way EQ started you originally. It always was a very differnt game to me. As I said Vangaurd is a lot closer to EQ then EQ2 was at release and is now.
Originally posted by Obee EQ2 was made much more casual player friendly because of WoW's success.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOE’s part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didn’t cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Leveling and solo play is much easier now than when EQ2 was released.That depends on what class you play. It’s also worth noting that replacing overland heroic mobs with solo mobs hurt soloers a lot more then it hurt people who grouped. Crafting is much more simplified into the WoW model, meaning that little to no interaction is required to make things, than when the game was released. Huh? EQ2 crafting is nothing like WoW crafting and tradeskill independance was changed because it didn't work and made many trades unplayable. They removed most of the required subcomponents and loot components. This was changed because many people found sub combines annoying and because they took too long which broke the supply/demand curve. NO ONE ever found them difficult, in fact running a successful business in EQ2 takes more smarts then ever.
The only Everquest stiff being brought into the game is lore and loot. EQ2 has always been loot based, and lore, zones and feel are what count for most people They aren't adding in game mechanics from Everquest. The current version of EQ is much more like WoW than it was at release. At the time of release, EQ2 was much more like EQ than WoW. That inst the case today. Instead of just saying it over and over try giveing some supporting reasons that stand up
EQ and WoW are very similar, in that from low level to high levels, you can play solo, That's an expected feature in todays games and even back in the EQ1 days you could reach max level solo it just took a while but if you want the best equipment, you need to do the group quests. For the best equipment you need to raid, this is something both games have always had, and both got it from EQ1, in EQ2 however it is very possible to solo named mobs that drop some of your most important equipment, master I spells. you can also get the same gear as a group would while doing this In fact, out of the main storyline quests, EQ2 has fewer that are intended for groups than WoW does. WoW has several group instanced quests in the main storyline set of quests, almost all of EQ2's group quests are optional side quests and mini storylines. Completely false. In fact most of the quests that really get into the EQ2 storyline require raiding, and all the heritage and most of the signature quests require a mix of grouping soloing and possibly raiding.
When EQ2 launched, quests were required to select your general class and your specific subclass. That was deemed to difficult by SOE and they made class selection a character creation choice. It wasn't deemed to difficult it was deemed to annoying. These quests were not hard for anyone, but you had to drop what you were doing and go do them makeing things seem more linear. They also had a quest to unlock alternate player races (Froglok, which they lied about being in the game for six months prior to actually adding it). there were two quests, one to unlock them for yourself, one to unlock them for the server. both quests were introduced at the same time as the race.
EQ2 is an easier and much more solaable game today than when it was released. That's class dependant. At release many classes could solo the roaming ^^herocis for fast xp and top loot, if anything this capability has decreased but solo farming of named still occurs. This is due to the success of World of Warcraft. You haven't even established a trend let alone proved it had anything to do with WoW I'm not trying to be negative about EQ2, it is currently SOE's best game, and if SOE employees would act professionally towards their customers (mainly the ones who work in Austin who are generally openly hostile towards their customers), I would still be playing it.
The reality is that WoW's success changed the way SOE, and many other companies, view what players want out of a game. Instead of taking the primary desire, a game that works at release without too many issues, they decided that people want simplified and easy games that hold their hand from start to finish.
At the risk of repeating myself, you haven’t even established a trend let alone shown it has anything to do with WoW. Most games allow you to solo to max level and this is a trend that started long before WoW ever launched. Even EQ1 allowed some classes to do it and do it efficiently.
EQ2 has more solo overland mobs in some zones then it did, but group mobs are also more difficult to solo. When EQ2 was released many classes could solo group mobs for very fast xp and solo all the way to max level. Ironically the issue you keep bringing up, the conversion of many heroic mobs to solo mobs in some zones hurt the soloers because it took away their supply of fast xp mobs, and helped the people who grouped because it allowed them to link up with less trouble.
Since beta EQ2 has targeted semi casual hours 2-3 hour play windows, and this has never changed. Of course they have refined the game to make it a better fit with their target audience. This is what a games live dev team is supposed to do, but few of these changes resemble WoW mecanics and all of them support the more casual then EQ1 principle that goes back to the games beta.
If you are going to point at random changes meant to refine the game then you could just as easily point to all the class rebalances and new raid zones as WoW attempting to duplicate EQ2. If fact you’d be more accurate saying that because WoW has made some changes that are obvious and direct copies of things EQ2 has done like the PvP reward system and the 24(EQ2)/25(WoW) man raids.
All MMOs are grinds or have grinding for xp or materials in one form or another as a means of acquiring xp or items. However what makes one game better then the other is how well they camouflage that grinding by giving the player a story, reason or failing both, a "job" to do.
Again how well this is implemented usually determines how "fun" that grind process is.
For example, a quests simply says " go kill 20 rats and bring me their tails" isn't going to be as "fun" as say a quests that asks the player to man a strategic point as "guards" for xxxx amount of mins (say 10-30 mins real time), which will spawn any random number of random appropriate level mobs for the player to "defend" against.
The one thing that fails ultimately in most MMOs today is that the quest / exp / grind structure feels too repetitive and until someone comes up with a way to implement both quests and a way to "randomise" the grind, people will become bored of any game really fast.
Originally posted by Obee EQ2 was made much more casual player friendly because of WoW's success.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOE’s part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didn’t cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Leveling and solo play is much easier now than when EQ2 was released.That depends on what class you play. It’s also worth noting that replacing overland heroic mobs with solo mobs hurt soloers a lot more then it hurt people who grouped.Heroic MOBs were never intended to be soloable, they were meant to be group MOBs. The group MOBs are currently much easier to fight solo, since their level is based on the group and the individual MOB in the group is much weaker than an equivilant single MOB of the same level. That they replaced many of the heroic MOBs with group MOBs is due to wanting the game to be easier for casual players, ie., you don't need to find a group to fight most random spawns across the landscape. Crafting is much more simplified into the WoW model, meaning that little to no interaction is required to make things, than when the game was released. Huh? EQ2 crafting is nothing like WoW crafting and tradeskill independance was changed because it didn't work and made many trades unplayable.Outside of the minigame button mashing, crafting in EQ2 is exactly like crafting in WoW. Gather resource A from Node A, combine with resource B from Node B. EQ2's crafting is like WoW's crafting with the minigame attached. Interdependence was removed because it was deemed to be too complex and SEO felt it made fewer people want to craft. They removed most of the required subcomponents and loot components. This was changed because many people found sub combines annoying and because they took too long which broke the supply/demand curve. NO ONE ever found them difficult, in fact running a successful business in EQ2 takes more smarts then ever.Again, the loot drops and sub components were removed to reduce complexity and to make crafting more accessible. Complexity and difficulty are not the same thing. Something can be complex and easy something else can be simple and hard.
The only Everquest stiff being brought into the game is lore and loot. EQ2 has always been loot based, and lore, zones and feel are what count for most people They aren't adding in game mechanics from Everquest. The current version of EQ is much more like WoW than it was at release. At the time of release, EQ2 was much more like EQ than WoW. That inst the case today. Instead of just saying it over and over try giveing some supporting reasons that stand up Is the game, in its current state, more like WoW than when it was released? WoW is viewed by SOE management as being successful due to being simple and accessible. John Smedley posted that on the SWG forums when the NGE was announced. He gave that reason for implementing the changes to SWG as trying to appeal to people who play WoW, due to the size of WoW's subscriber base. Do you honestly think the simplification of EQ2 is being done in a vacuum?
EQ and WoW are very similar, in that from low level to high levels, you can play solo, That's an expected feature in todays games and even back in the EQ1 days you could reach max level solo it just took a whileThat EQ should have been an EQ2. But in the early days of EQ, you would have spent far too much time to try and level your character solo than most people would be willing to spend. It was even stated by the developers at the time that the game was intended to require grouping to advance because it was part of "The Vision". but if you want the best equipment, you need to do the group quests. For the best equipment you need to raid, this is something both games have always had, and both got it from EQ1, in EQ2 however it is very possible to solo named mobs that drop some of your most important equipment, master I spells. you can also get the same gear as a group would while doing thisFor master spells, you can buy them from someone else who looted it. For the best weapons and armor, you have to do the heratige quests or other group based quests, some of which are intended to be raids. In fact, out of the main storyline quests, EQ2 has fewer that are intended for groups than WoW does. WoW has several group instanced quests in the main storyline set of quests, almost all of EQ2's group quests are optional side quests and mini storylines. Completely false. In fact most of the quests that really get into the EQ2 storyline require raiding, and all the heritage and most of the signature quests require a mix of grouping soloing and possibly raiding. The heritage quests are meant to connect the game to EQ, they aren't required, nor are they part of the main storyline quest series that takes you from your starter town through the different zones. The raid, heritage, and signature quests are intended to allow the player to dig deeper into the game's lore and background history, they aren't the main quest series.
When EQ2 launched, quests were required to select your general class and your specific subclass. That was deemed to difficult by SOE and they made class selection a character creation choice. It wasn't deemed to difficult it was deemed to annoying. These quests were not hard for anyone, but you had to drop what you were doing and go do them makeing things seem more linear. The game's producer (I think it was the producer) said it was too confusing for new players when asked why those quests were removed (by players who wanted the quests put back in, even if they served no purpose). They also had a quest to unlock alternate player races (Froglok, which they lied about being in the game for six months prior to actually adding it). there were two quests, one to unlock them for yourself, one to unlock them for the server. both quests were introduced at the same time as the race. But the players were told that the quest was in the game and nobody had found them yet, six months before they were actually implemented,
EQ2 is an easier and much more solaable game today than when it was released. That's class dependant. At release many classes could solo the roaming ^^herocis for fast xp and top loot, if anything this capability has decreased but solo farming of named still occurs. As I said earlier, heroic MOBs were nor intended to be soloable, the reason they replaced many of them with group MOBs wasn't so the game would be harder. This is due to the success of World of Warcraft. You haven't even established a trend let alone proved it had anything to do with WoWEQ2 was made less complex and more similar to WoW than it was when it was first released. It isn't a carbon copy of WoW, but making the game less complex wasn't done in a vacuum. WoW's success has been attributed to its simple mechanics and its accessibility, by people at SOE as well as many in the general community. I'm not trying to be negative about EQ2, it is currently SOE's best game, and if SOE employees would act professionally towards their customers (mainly the ones who work in Austin who are generally openly hostile towards their customers), I would still be playing it.
The reality is that WoW's success changed the way SOE, and many other companies, view what players want out of a game. Instead of taking the primary desire, a game that works at release without too many issues, they decided that people want simplified and easy games that hold their hand from start to finish.
At the risk of repeating myself, you haven’t even established a trend let alone shown it has anything to do with WoW. Most games allow you to solo to max level and this is a trend that started long before WoW ever launched. Even EQ1 allowed some classes to do it and do it efficiently.
EQ was intended to have forced grouping from the start as it was part of "The Vision". It was also intended to require a lot of time to be invested in it and for leveling to take a long time, again, as part of "The Vision".
EQ2 has more solo overland mobs in some zones then it did, but group mobs are also more difficult to solo. When EQ2 was released many classes could solo group mobs for very fast xp and solo all the way to max level. Ironically the issue you keep bringing up, the conversion of many heroic mobs to solo mobs in some zones hurt the soloers because it took away their supply of fast xp mobs, and helped the people who grouped because it allowed them to link up with less trouble.
Since beta EQ2 has targeted semi casual hours 2-3 hour play windows, and this has never changed. Of course they have refined the game to make it a better fit with their target audience. This is what a games live dev team is supposed to do, but few of these changes resemble WoW mecanics and all of them support the more casual then EQ1 principle that goes back to the games beta.
If you are going to point at random changes meant to refine the game then you could just as easily point to all the class rebalances and new raid zones as WoW attempting to duplicate EQ2. If fact you’d be more accurate saying that because WoW has made some changes that are obvious and direct copies of things EQ2 has done like the PvP reward system and the 24(EQ2)/25(WoW) man raids.
Which game has more subscribers, EQ2 or WoW? Blizzard isn't going to make changes to its game to emulate a game that is much less successful. Conversely, SOE is very much inclined to make their game(s) more like WoW as they see that as a way to appeal to people who currently play WoW. WoW's success very much changed the way success is measured in the MMO subset of the gaming industry. That is why a game like Vanguard can sell (allegedly) 200K boxes, and still be considered a failure and cause the company who owned it to be forced to sell their assets to recover their losses. Prior to WoW, 200K boxes sold would be considered a success.
EQ2 was released with a whimper and had early server merges. Development was then focused on improving the games mechanics to appeal to more people. At the time EQ2 merged servers, WoW was breaking records. Do you really think the EQ2 developers ignored WoW's gameplay when they began changing their game to increase its subscription numbers? Their other option was to make the game more like EQ, but as you pointed out, that wasn't the market they were after. The market they wanted (and still want) was the one playing WoW.
No company is setting a goal to copy the success of anything but WoW. Most new MMO developers are eyeing the 1 million number. They aren't going to copy games that have achieved nowhere near that number to try and get there. If a feature is found in WoW and another game, any new game that has that feature has it due to WoW, not the other game. Everyone is chasing WoW, even SOE. When something comes out and beats WoW, then everyone will begin to chase that game and include features they feel make that game so successful. This isn't an indictment on any company for doing so. I fully understand that several million dollars are being invested in these games and the companies that make them are doing so to make money. Blizzard themselves took features from other games that they felt made those games good and used them in their game.
Anyway, if you're wanting me to pull out a quote from someone on the EQ2 team where they say "We are copying WoW!", we both know that isn't going to happen. That would be a stupid thing for them to admit, since it would be more likely to cause their players to play WoW instead.
I like to think of it this way, WoW is WoW. EQ is EQ. LOTRO is LOTRO. Ultima is Ultima. D&D is D&D. Etc. is Etc. lol
So the only real thing people can compare and EQ to EQ2 since one is a sequel and any other game that follows that thing and any other game that you know what I mean and stuff. Other then that people can only state their opinions and there will always be people saying this copied and this and there will always be people that say I hate it when people say this copied this and you will have the people that try to act like they are above both of them and they will say I'm smart and you guys complain a lot, even though this is a forum and people can talk about stuff so it really doesn't matter and then you got people like me that use run-on sentences and use words like blah blah blah to end stuff that they don't know why they are typing.
Relax, they are just compairing other games to World of Warcraft because it's the current leader of the online games and pretty much everyone has heard about it.
I'm sick of everyone calling every new game a WoW clone. You know what people WoW wasn't the first MMO to hit the shelves, and guess what its features? Not all of them were ground breaking with the launch of the game.
Lets compare:
WoWs quick slots? EQ2 and EQ had it first...
Its mini map? EQ and EQ 2 had it first...
It's.. It's little book that shows you all your abilities again... EQ and EQ2 had them first.
Interface in general..EQ and Eq2 ripoff.
Auto attack? Geez theres another EQ,EQ2 ripoffs
Character equipment managing screen? EQ, EQ 2 ripoff.
Raiding? Man there's another rip off from EQ and EQ2.
It's very PoVs and ability to change distance with mouse wheel? well that was ripped from numerous other games that came first.
WoW's pet classes? The pet class in general is a rip off from EQ,,,
In fact the whole class system is ripped from other games they couldn't even be original in naming there classes
The fact is nearly everything about every ones precious WoW? I can find in another game that came before WoW.
So do the world a favor and stop calling every new game that comes out a WoW clone, because WoW itself is nothing more than a smattering of ideas taken from other games. the only thing WoW has going for it thats is unique to it, is its graphics (nice landscapes, Horrid character models), and its Battlefield PvP system (though I'm sure if I look hard enough I can find a previous game that has already done it).
WoW was NOT the first, it will not be the last, and it is certainly not the best.
What gets me is how every one says that all these new games are coping there interface and such off of WoW.
If you WoW clone whiners know so many better ways to design and interface then by all means suggest them to the developers, because its been my experience that when devs try to make new ground breaking interfaces it ticks people off, and they complain
how its not simple enough, or its to hard to use.
There is likely not going to be a game that comes out that doesn't barrow some of its features from other games, so get used to it.
It's just good practice to go with what works, and what people have come to be used to where interfaces and such are concerned and other core mechanics. its done with more than games. its the way industry works.. take what works well from others and try and improve on it. There is nothing wrong with it.
The clone thing is just a means for people to attack new games, that they feel threaten to dethrone there precious WoW.
Have a nice day,
Raven
Everything you just listed about Everquest is a rip off of games before it, specifically pnp games and rpgs. People compare to wow, because wow is the new bench mark.
Im sure you think everquest is great, i think game companies think wow is better since it has 10x the number of subscribers therefore they are trying to make a game like wow. Like it or not gaming companies will try to copy the most successful game there is, to make more money, atm that game is wow.
Hence the term wow clone, if wow was an Everquest clone it wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as it is, at its peak everquest had a fraction of wows subscriber numbers.
If warhammer does better than wow we will probably see warhammer clones, and the cycle will continue.
Oh and in the end these games arn't clones, most of them take what was before them, in this case wow took from everquest, ao etc etc and improved upon it. Thus resulting in a better and overall more successful mmo.
Atm games are taking what wow, lord of the rings online, and those games that released in the last couple of years that noones heard of, and improving on them.
Its why age of conan is going to be simplistic rather than complicated. Its also why all warhammer is, is dark age of camalot with wow like graphics so it will run on everyones machine, it is also incredibly simplistic. MMOs are becoming more mainstream, like it or not world of warcraft was the first mainstream mmo its the only game to compare the new mmos that are mainstream since there has been no game before wow that has been anywhere near as successful, and populer to a mainstream audience.
Everything gets compared to WoW because it's the biggest one out there, and it's the one that everyone knows something about.
WoW isn't the be all and end all of MMO gaming , but it is the most recognisable MMO brand available today.
Of course it's not original, not much is nowadays. But when ppl talk about MMOs most will think of WoW so it makes an easier reference point than Ever Quest, which IMO, is why ppl refer to games as 'WoW clones'
I think the funniest thing I heard was how LOTRO ripped off WoW's UI. If you look at AC2 and compare it to LOTRO, you know where Turbine copied it from... There own game.
For some reason people think that every MMO is copying from WoW. If WoW was the only MMO that you played, I could understand why you would think that. MMOs copied from MUDs, MUDs copied from pen an paper RPGs, etc.
Comments
When everyone else starts being consistent then I will as well.
Raven
WOW that is certainly a matter of opinion about content used properly. If Blizzard ever did anything right I would be utterly amazed.
Raven
Raven
Raven
I hate WOW TOOOOO
AND EQ2
everything is ripped from UO
hi
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didnt want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didn’t want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
I don't have to hear the same thing over and over and over again. I know that WoW isn't original in in terms of the points the OP posted, but it was original (back when it was released) with the things I posted.For example, yesterday I was watching some videos on youtube about WAR. while reading the comments, one person posted "This looks like WoW" which is completely understandable, because if you haven't done much research on WAR and you see it for the first time, WAR does look very similar to WoW, same graphics style, combat looks very similar, etc. the next 5 or 10 comments were filled by people repeating over and over again how much WoW sucked and how much WoW is a clone of everything else, instead of just simply explaining the differences between WAR and WoW.
that is all I have to say about this worthless topic.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOEs part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didnt cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didn’t want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
I don't have to hear the same thing over and over and over again. I know that WoW isn't original in in terms of the points the OP posted, but it was original (back when it was released) with the things I posted.For example, yesterday I was watching some videos on youtube about WAR. while reading the comments, one person posted "This looks like WoW" which is completely understandable, because if you haven't done much research on WAR and you see it for the first time, WAR does look very similar to WoW, same graphics style, combat looks very similar, etc. the next 5 or 10 comments were filled by people repeating over and over again how much WoW sucked and how much WoW is a clone of everything else, instead of just simply explaining the differences between WAR and WoW.
Why would this upset you? The only reason I can see for not wanting to see the record set straight is if you were a fanboi who didn’t want these fact to be known because you want people to believe WoW is original and everything else is a clone.
I don't have to hear the same thing over and over and over again. I know that WoW isn't original in in terms of the points the OP posted, but it was original (back when it was released) with the things I posted.For example, yesterday I was watching some videos on youtube about WAR. while reading the comments, one person posted "This looks like WoW" which is completely understandable, because if you haven't done much research on WAR and you see it for the first time, WAR does look very similar to WoW, same graphics style, combat looks very similar, etc. the next 5 or 10 comments were filled by people repeating over and over again how much WoW sucked and how much WoW is a clone of everything else, instead of just simply explaining the differences between WAR and WoW.
Because it gets annoying? Also it has nothing to do with the subject. If someone says "Oh, Game A looks like WoW" then why do you feel a need to tell that WoW looks like another game that has nothing to do with the subject?. Also, others have NOT pointed out that others games are like that, City of Heroes is a poor example because its not like WoW. it doesn't bring the same content WoW does in a casual experience. Everquest 2 became like that after carefully looking at WoW, it changed a lot over the years. And I didn't have it completely backwards, the endgame content is NOT the full game. nobody is forcing you to stay at the endgame but you.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOE’s part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didn’t cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Leveling and solo play is much easier now than when EQ2 was released. Crafting is much more simplified into the WoW model, meaning that little to no interaction is required to make things, than when the game was released. They removed most of the required subcomponents and loot components.
The only Everquest stiff being brought into the game is lore and loot. They aren't adding in game mechanics from Everquest. The current version of EQ is much more like WoW than it was at release. At the time of release, EQ2 was much more like EQ than WoW. That inst the case today.
EQ and WoW are very similar, in that from low level to high levels, you can play solo, but if you want the best equipment, you need to do the group quests. In fact, out of the main storyline quests, EQ2 has fewer that are intended for groups than WoW does. WoW has several group instanced quests in the main storyline set of quests, almost all of EQ2's group quests are optional side quests and mini storylines.
When EQ2 launched, quests were required to select your general class and your specific subclass. That was deemed to difficult by SOE and they made class selection a character creation choice. They also had a quest to unlock alternate player races (Froglok, which they lied about being in the game for six months prior to actually adding it).
EQ2 is an easier and much more solaable game today than when it was released. This is due to the success of World of Warcraft. I'm not trying to be negative about EQ2, it is currently SOE's best game, and if SOE employees would act professionally towards their customers (mainly the ones who work in Austin who are generally openly hostile towards their customers), I would still be playing it.
The reality is that WoW's success changed the way SOE, and many other companies, view what players want out of a game. Instead of taking the primary desire, a game that works at release without too many issues, they decided that people want simplified and easy games that hold their hand from start to finish.
I don't believe EQ2 was ever anything like EQ other then the lore and they even said that it wasn't going to be like EQ when it first came out. They added locked encounters which I dislike a lot from the start. They made ever class solo capable against solo tagged mobs which is differnt then EQ. The graphics had a very differnt feeling to them. The way the game starts you is so very differnt feeling to the way EQ started you originally. It always was a very differnt game to me. As I said Vangaurd is a lot closer to EQ then EQ2 was at release and is now.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOE’s part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didn’t cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Leveling and solo play is much easier now than when EQ2 was released.That depends on what class you play. It’s also worth noting that replacing overland heroic mobs with solo mobs hurt soloers a lot more then it hurt people who grouped. Crafting is much more simplified into the WoW model, meaning that little to no interaction is required to make things, than when the game was released. Huh? EQ2 crafting is nothing like WoW crafting and tradeskill independance was changed because it didn't work and made many trades unplayable. They removed most of the required subcomponents and loot components. This was changed because many people found sub combines annoying and because they took too long which broke the supply/demand curve. NO ONE ever found them difficult, in fact running a successful business in EQ2 takes more smarts then ever.
The only Everquest stiff being brought into the game is lore and loot. EQ2 has always been loot based, and lore, zones and feel are what count for most people They aren't adding in game mechanics from Everquest. The current version of EQ is much more like WoW than it was at release. At the time of release, EQ2 was much more like EQ than WoW. That inst the case today. Instead of just saying it over and over try giveing some supporting reasons that stand up
EQ and WoW are very similar, in that from low level to high levels, you can play solo, That's an expected feature in todays games and even back in the EQ1 days you could reach max level solo it just took a while but if you want the best equipment, you need to do the group quests. For the best equipment you need to raid, this is something both games have always had, and both got it from EQ1, in EQ2 however it is very possible to solo named mobs that drop some of your most important equipment, master I spells. you can also get the same gear as a group would while doing this In fact, out of the main storyline quests, EQ2 has fewer that are intended for groups than WoW does. WoW has several group instanced quests in the main storyline set of quests, almost all of EQ2's group quests are optional side quests and mini storylines. Completely false. In fact most of the quests that really get into the EQ2 storyline require raiding, and all the heritage and most of the signature quests require a mix of grouping soloing and possibly raiding.
When EQ2 launched, quests were required to select your general class and your specific subclass. That was deemed to difficult by SOE and they made class selection a character creation choice. It wasn't deemed to difficult it was deemed to annoying. These quests were not hard for anyone, but you had to drop what you were doing and go do them makeing things seem more linear. They also had a quest to unlock alternate player races (Froglok, which they lied about being in the game for six months prior to actually adding it). there were two quests, one to unlock them for yourself, one to unlock them for the server. both quests were introduced at the same time as the race.
EQ2 is an easier and much more solaable game today than when it was released. That's class dependant. At release many classes could solo the roaming ^^herocis for fast xp and top loot, if anything this capability has decreased but solo farming of named still occurs. This is due to the success of World of Warcraft. You haven't even established a trend let alone proved it had anything to do with WoW I'm not trying to be negative about EQ2, it is currently SOE's best game, and if SOE employees would act professionally towards their customers (mainly the ones who work in Austin who are generally openly hostile towards their customers), I would still be playing it.
The reality is that WoW's success changed the way SOE, and many other companies, view what players want out of a game. Instead of taking the primary desire, a game that works at release without too many issues, they decided that people want simplified and easy games that hold their hand from start to finish.
Again how well this is implemented usually determines how "fun" that grind process is.
For example, a quests simply says " go kill 20 rats and bring me their tails" isn't going to be as "fun" as say a quests that asks the player to man a strategic point as "guards" for xxxx amount of mins (say 10-30 mins real time), which will spawn any random number of random appropriate level mobs for the player to "defend" against.
The one thing that fails ultimately in most MMOs today is that the quest / exp / grind structure feels too repetitive and until someone comes up with a way to implement both quests and a way to "randomise" the grind, people will become bored of any game really fast.
Incorrect. EQ2 was targeting more casual players long before it ever went into beta. This was part of a deliberate decision on SOE’s part to try to appeal to a crowd so they didn’t cannibalize the Everquest player base. They did adjust many of the overland mobs and quests at one point but this was long before WoW truly took off. There was lots of people soloing these mobs even before this however.
EQ2's great success of late has more to do with the developers bringing more Everquest into EQ2 then it does any attept to copy WoW and EQ2 really doeasn't copy the WoW style of grind alts, grind faction, farm for hours on end for mats to make consumables so you can grind raid zones, etc, etc, etc. WoW is a strong candidate for the current king of MMO grindfests.
If you want a truly casual game try CoH/.CoV, yet another game that was around long before WoW. EQ2 is a semi casual game designed for people to accomplish things in a 2-3 hour window. Unlike WoW EQ2 is primarily a group game, there may be lots of good solo content but you get rewarded for grouping, WoW is solo encouraged then flips to endgame raiding. You can play the early solo of WoW part casualy but there isn't much benifit to it.
Leveling and solo play is much easier now than when EQ2 was released.That depends on what class you play. It’s also worth noting that replacing overland heroic mobs with solo mobs hurt soloers a lot more then it hurt people who grouped. Heroic MOBs were never intended to be soloable, they were meant to be group MOBs. The group MOBs are currently much easier to fight solo, since their level is based on the group and the individual MOB in the group is much weaker than an equivilant single MOB of the same level. That they replaced many of the heroic MOBs with group MOBs is due to wanting the game to be easier for casual players, ie., you don't need to find a group to fight most random spawns across the landscape. Crafting is much more simplified into the WoW model, meaning that little to no interaction is required to make things, than when the game was released. Huh? EQ2 crafting is nothing like WoW crafting and tradeskill independance was changed because it didn't work and made many trades unplayable. Outside of the minigame button mashing, crafting in EQ2 is exactly like crafting in WoW. Gather resource A from Node A, combine with resource B from Node B. EQ2's crafting is like WoW's crafting with the minigame attached. Interdependence was removed because it was deemed to be too complex and SEO felt it made fewer people want to craft. They removed most of the required subcomponents and loot components. This was changed because many people found sub combines annoying and because they took too long which broke the supply/demand curve. NO ONE ever found them difficult, in fact running a successful business in EQ2 takes more smarts then ever. Again, the loot drops and sub components were removed to reduce complexity and to make crafting more accessible. Complexity and difficulty are not the same thing. Something can be complex and easy something else can be simple and hard.
The only Everquest stiff being brought into the game is lore and loot. EQ2 has always been loot based, and lore, zones and feel are what count for most people They aren't adding in game mechanics from Everquest. The current version of EQ is much more like WoW than it was at release. At the time of release, EQ2 was much more like EQ than WoW. That inst the case today. Instead of just saying it over and over try giveing some supporting reasons that stand up Is the game, in its current state, more like WoW than when it was released? WoW is viewed by SOE management as being successful due to being simple and accessible. John Smedley posted that on the SWG forums when the NGE was announced. He gave that reason for implementing the changes to SWG as trying to appeal to people who play WoW, due to the size of WoW's subscriber base. Do you honestly think the simplification of EQ2 is being done in a vacuum?
EQ and WoW are very similar, in that from low level to high levels, you can play solo, That's an expected feature in todays games and even back in the EQ1 days you could reach max level solo it just took a while That EQ should have been an EQ2. But in the early days of EQ, you would have spent far too much time to try and level your character solo than most people would be willing to spend. It was even stated by the developers at the time that the game was intended to require grouping to advance because it was part of "The Vision". but if you want the best equipment, you need to do the group quests. For the best equipment you need to raid, this is something both games have always had, and both got it from EQ1, in EQ2 however it is very possible to solo named mobs that drop some of your most important equipment, master I spells. you can also get the same gear as a group would while doing this For master spells, you can buy them from someone else who looted it. For the best weapons and armor, you have to do the heratige quests or other group based quests, some of which are intended to be raids. In fact, out of the main storyline quests, EQ2 has fewer that are intended for groups than WoW does. WoW has several group instanced quests in the main storyline set of quests, almost all of EQ2's group quests are optional side quests and mini storylines. Completely false. In fact most of the quests that really get into the EQ2 storyline require raiding, and all the heritage and most of the signature quests require a mix of grouping soloing and possibly raiding. The heritage quests are meant to connect the game to EQ, they aren't required, nor are they part of the main storyline quest series that takes you from your starter town through the different zones. The raid, heritage, and signature quests are intended to allow the player to dig deeper into the game's lore and background history, they aren't the main quest series.
When EQ2 launched, quests were required to select your general class and your specific subclass. That was deemed to difficult by SOE and they made class selection a character creation choice. It wasn't deemed to difficult it was deemed to annoying. These quests were not hard for anyone, but you had to drop what you were doing and go do them makeing things seem more linear. The game's producer (I think it was the producer) said it was too confusing for new players when asked why those quests were removed (by players who wanted the quests put back in, even if they served no purpose). They also had a quest to unlock alternate player races (Froglok, which they lied about being in the game for six months prior to actually adding it). there were two quests, one to unlock them for yourself, one to unlock them for the server. both quests were introduced at the same time as the race. But the players were told that the quest was in the game and nobody had found them yet, six months before they were actually implemented,
EQ2 is an easier and much more solaable game today than when it was released. That's class dependant. At release many classes could solo the roaming ^^herocis for fast xp and top loot, if anything this capability has decreased but solo farming of named still occurs. As I said earlier, heroic MOBs were nor intended to be soloable, the reason they replaced many of them with group MOBs wasn't so the game would be harder. This is due to the success of World of Warcraft. You haven't even established a trend let alone proved it had anything to do with WoW EQ2 was made less complex and more similar to WoW than it was when it was first released. It isn't a carbon copy of WoW, but making the game less complex wasn't done in a vacuum. WoW's success has been attributed to its simple mechanics and its accessibility, by people at SOE as well as many in the general community. I'm not trying to be negative about EQ2, it is currently SOE's best game, and if SOE employees would act professionally towards their customers (mainly the ones who work in Austin who are generally openly hostile towards their customers), I would still be playing it.
The reality is that WoW's success changed the way SOE, and many other companies, view what players want out of a game. Instead of taking the primary desire, a game that works at release without too many issues, they decided that people want simplified and easy games that hold their hand from start to finish.
EQ was intended to have forced grouping from the start as it was part of "The Vision". It was also intended to require a lot of time to be invested in it and for leveling to take a long time, again, as part of "The Vision".
Which game has more subscribers, EQ2 or WoW? Blizzard isn't going to make changes to its game to emulate a game that is much less successful. Conversely, SOE is very much inclined to make their game(s) more like WoW as they see that as a way to appeal to people who currently play WoW. WoW's success very much changed the way success is measured in the MMO subset of the gaming industry. That is why a game like Vanguard can sell (allegedly) 200K boxes, and still be considered a failure and cause the company who owned it to be forced to sell their assets to recover their losses. Prior to WoW, 200K boxes sold would be considered a success.
EQ2 was released with a whimper and had early server merges. Development was then focused on improving the games mechanics to appeal to more people. At the time EQ2 merged servers, WoW was breaking records. Do you really think the EQ2 developers ignored WoW's gameplay when they began changing their game to increase its subscription numbers? Their other option was to make the game more like EQ, but as you pointed out, that wasn't the market they were after. The market they wanted (and still want) was the one playing WoW.
No company is setting a goal to copy the success of anything but WoW. Most new MMO developers are eyeing the 1 million number. They aren't going to copy games that have achieved nowhere near that number to try and get there. If a feature is found in WoW and another game, any new game that has that feature has it due to WoW, not the other game. Everyone is chasing WoW, even SOE. When something comes out and beats WoW, then everyone will begin to chase that game and include features they feel make that game so successful. This isn't an indictment on any company for doing so. I fully understand that several million dollars are being invested in these games and the companies that make them are doing so to make money. Blizzard themselves took features from other games that they felt made those games good and used them in their game.
Anyway, if you're wanting me to pull out a quote from someone on the EQ2 team where they say "We are copying WoW!", we both know that isn't going to happen. That would be a stupid thing for them to admit, since it would be more likely to cause their players to play WoW instead.
And it won't be the last. Your Point?
I like to think of it this way, WoW is WoW. EQ is EQ. LOTRO is LOTRO. Ultima is Ultima. D&D is D&D. Etc. is Etc. lol
So the only real thing people can compare and EQ to EQ2 since one is a sequel and any other game that follows that thing and any other game that you know what I mean and stuff. Other then that people can only state their opinions and there will always be people saying this copied and this and there will always be people that say I hate it when people say this copied this and you will have the people that try to act like they are above both of them and they will say I'm smart and you guys complain a lot, even though this is a forum and people can talk about stuff so it really doesn't matter and then you got people like me that use run-on sentences and use words like blah blah blah to end stuff that they don't know why they are typing.
blah blah blah you get what I mean
hi
Im sure you think everquest is great, i think game companies think wow is better since it has 10x the number of subscribers therefore they are trying to make a game like wow. Like it or not gaming companies will try to copy the most successful game there is, to make more money, atm that game is wow.
Hence the term wow clone, if wow was an Everquest clone it wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as it is, at its peak everquest had a fraction of wows subscriber numbers.
If warhammer does better than wow we will probably see warhammer clones, and the cycle will continue.
Oh and in the end these games arn't clones, most of them take what was before them, in this case wow took from everquest, ao etc etc and improved upon it. Thus resulting in a better and overall more successful mmo.
Atm games are taking what wow, lord of the rings online, and those games that released in the last couple of years that noones heard of, and improving on them.
Its why age of conan is going to be simplistic rather than complicated. Its also why all warhammer is, is dark age of camalot with wow like graphics so it will run on everyones machine, it is also incredibly simplistic. MMOs are becoming more mainstream, like it or not world of warcraft was the first mainstream mmo its the only game to compare the new mmos that are mainstream since there has been no game before wow that has been anywhere near as successful, and populer to a mainstream audience.
WoW isn't the be all and end all of MMO gaming , but it is the most recognisable MMO brand available today.
Of course it's not original, not much is nowadays.
For some reason people think that every MMO is copying from WoW. If WoW was the only MMO that you played, I could understand why you would think that. MMOs copied from MUDs, MUDs copied from pen an paper RPGs, etc.