DAOC PvP > Pre-battleground WoW. Don't get me wrong, WoW was actually a decent game before the battlegrounds ruined a lot of it. But DAOC PvP had the most point to it. Real capturable artifacts and castles that have a reall effect on the overworld is a lot better then fighting over the same lumber mill 5000 times with no bearing on the world. Instancing PvP like that was a huge blow to the game feeling like a war between 2 armies. How many times can you fight over a flag or the lumber mill? You do it 100 times till your faction is maxed then quit. Not much of a point if you ask me. WoW's contested areas should have been really contested with real objectives in them.
This is probably not a new idea. I didn't play DAOC so I'm not sure if the game had this. What you could do is have neutral cities that have quests and vendors. Only those in control of the city could do the quests or buy the items in these preticular cities. Perhaps these cities could also provide a faster route of transportation around the world.
WoW is not PvP WoW is a gankfest... You only get attacked in the world if you are fighting something else, your half dead already or your 20 LvLs below their level...
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Wow huge raid Pvp rule, and the fact about getting kill by high levels, was no problem to me. it made me even raise my level faster. i remenber i kill then all when i was lvl 60.
WoWs PVP had a point, it was to kill the alliance stop them. TM/SS wars was all about who ever controlled that area. TM SS wars were fun as hell and would last 3+ days straight and no side gave up easily.
PvP has never had a point. Other than chest banging ego-stroking and the ability to ruin peoples day. You can't even use the term competitive in regards to it, because at the end of the fight it was still more about knowing you were better than the other person, or you had better gear than the other person than anything else. Pure Epeen stroking. There is no point to that other than self gratification.
Im going to laugh to myself about this post until im finished work. WoW really has bred a naive bunch hasn't it?
I agree wholeheartedly snoopy20. It seems to me that the OP has never played some other great MMO's with much better PvP, and is making a relatively naive comment.
Without any question in my mind, the best implementation of "meaningful PvP" to date (in my mind) is Dark Age of Camelot (which by the way pre-dates WoW by a few years). Up until that point, PvP in most MMOs (or at least the main stream MMOs - admittedly I may not have tried some of the less known ones) was basically a gankfest without purpose (other than so called bragging rights I suppose). Only with the introductino of DAoC was PvP actually given a point - realms working together to procure enemy relics, each of which provided stat bonuses to the entire realm.
I look forward to seeing how AoC's PvP system comes to life... looks very promising from what I've read, but only time will tell.
This is probably not a new idea. I didn't play DAOC so I'm not sure if the game had this. What you could do is have neutral cities that have quests and vendors. Only those in control of the city could do the quests or buy the items in these preticular cities. Perhaps these cities could also provide a faster route of transportation around the world.
Actually DAOC did have some of this in the early days, crafting vendors who sold materials that could only be purchased in keeps out in the frontiers.
DAOC still has neutral keeps that players can fight for control of.....and in fact, holding a certain number of them permits your faction the right to access a special dungeon called Darkness falls.... which in its day had the best loot drops in the game......
I used to love running out to the frontiers, take enough keeps to get into DF.... sweep the enemy faction out of there... grind for a few hours for cash/loot, then suddenly someone would announce that control was lost again and in a short time the enemy would show up and you'd battle them till they wiped you out of there.....
Good times ...... hoping WAR can recapture some of that....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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DAOC was fun, but knowing that everything you did that night would be erased the next day when you logged back in was NOT fun. So, it had a point, but it didn't have a point because you never won and you never lost...much like WOW.
All that realm togetherness went out the window when RAs became more important than relics, since you just needed 8 people. At that point, DAOC was the exact same thing as WOW and the early honor system. The more you played and the more people you killed, the stronger you got.
A lot of the comments in here make me want to give DAoC a try, eventhough I hear not many play it anymore. I have been tempted to go back to AC: Darktide but its been so long since I have been there I would likely be lost and would know no one, which can be a harsh existence over there!
Lately I have just been playing FPS games to get my "PvP" in and LoTRo for some PvE relaxation.
DAOC is the best pvp (RVR) go to a classic server to play , its great.
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I agree wholeheartedly snoopy20. It seems to me that the OP has never played some other great MMO's with much better PvP, and is making a relatively naive comment.
Without any question in my mind, the best implementation of "meaningful PvP" to date (in my mind) is Dark Age of Camelot (which by the way pre-dates WoW by a few years). Up until that point, PvP in most MMOs (or at least the main stream MMOs - admittedly I may not have tried some of the less known ones) was basically a gankfest without purpose (other than so called bragging rights I suppose). Only with the introductino of DAoC was PvP actually given a point - realms working together to procure enemy relics, each of which provided stat bonuses to the entire realm.
I look forward to seeing how AoC's PvP system comes to life... looks very promising from what I've read, but only time will tell.
I think it's more to do with limited MMO experience than naivety but it does make one chuckle.
For me DAOC RVR combat was great fun though I enjoyed GW's PVP as well.
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To the OP:
You my friend, never played DAoC in it's early days. The RVR was a great idea.
DAOC still has neutral keeps that players can fight for control of.....and in fact, holding a certain number of them permits your faction the right to access a special dungeon called Darkness falls.... which in its day had the best loot drops in the game......
I used to love running out to the frontiers, take enough keeps to get into DF.... sweep the enemy faction out of there... grind for a few hours for cash/loot, then suddenly someone would announce that control was lost again and in a short time the enemy would show up and you'd battle them till they wiped you out of there.....
Good times ...... hoping WAR can recapture some of that....
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
BG serves its purpose, it saves the masses from ganking the PvE-ers by keeping them busy.
DAOC was fun, but knowing that everything you did that night would be erased the next day when you logged back in was NOT fun. So, it had a point, but it didn't have a point because you never won and you never lost...much like WOW.
All that realm togetherness went out the window when RAs became more important than relics, since you just needed 8 people. At that point, DAOC was the exact same thing as WOW and the early honor system. The more you played and the more people you killed, the stronger you got.
Lately I have just been playing FPS games to get my "PvP" in and LoTRo for some PvE relaxation.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine