It's funny how day after day, month after month, these same discussions about server numbers (and the inaccuracy of estimates) continue. Yet the one thing that is never disputed is the fact that current numbers are far less then they were pre-CU.
I've said in other posts that SOE never truly appreciated the fact that the community in SWG was their meal ticket.
I'd go even further back in server populations and say that the introduction of holocrons was the beginning of the downward spiral in subscription numbers. On the pre-release forums we were constantly told a.) how much freedom we were going to have to play the game as we wanted to and b.) how unique and mysterious the path to Jedi would be.
I know a large number of people left when the holocrons revealed that a.) if you ever wanted to atain Force senstivity you'd have to play the game the way SOE wanted you to and b.) the path to Jedi was just a typical MMORPG grind.
SOE has tried three times to make SWG a better game, and every time they've seen a drop in subs. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if I learned the only major thing that they ever introduced without an adverse effect on sub numbers was JtL.
It's funny how day after day, month after month, these same discussions about server numbers (and the inaccuracy of estimates) continue. Yet the one thing that is never disputed is the fact that current numbers are far less then they were pre-CU.
Which no offense because we are on the same side, but doesn't mean crap to me. I wouldn't care if swg pre-cu had 10k users.
This entire subscriber numbers discussion is stupid and serves no one. Does subscriptions make a game good? WoW has tons of players. I HATED that game and thought it sucked. If you base any decision on popularity your doing yourself a major disservice.
The Pre-CU version of the game was simply a better all around video game the the NGE version. The reasons and discussions for that are numerous. I hope we can stick to making our point that way as opposed to making it a popularity contests.
Clearly its should be a beauty pagnet. The NGE is the equalivant of Rosie O'Donnell. The Pre-CU is Jessica Alba.
P.S. Plus we all already know our game was more popular on top of being better so what is the point besides rubbing it in.
Wow, I was hoping that Vanguard would do well. It is a game that was not afraid to be complex. NGE on the other hand went from complex to simple but still lost a heap of players.
Although they are not there yet.... it seems that all SOE MMO games are moving towards "deadmanland" abandon ship anyone? lol
If EA's behavior after the Sims Online flopped, I wouldn't be surprised. High profille sure thing turns sour, and next thing you know the EA Online titles that had small but stable communities (Motor City Online, Earth and Beyond) are suddenly given the axe so that the company as a whole can regroup.
Given that bit of industry precident, the failure of Vanguard may have a more detrimental effect on the future of SWG than any CU or NGE. Given that Sony as a whole is bleeding cash on the PS3 debacle, and is still suffering in other key areas (aren't they still losing market share on consumer electronics?) I don't see their shareholders being friendly to anything considered dead weight for long.
How would LucasArts factor into that? I've continued to support them as a company, but SWG has seemed like the read-headed stepchild on their end since shortly after JtL hit retail.
I'm not entirely sure what to make out of that site. It actually seems like a blatant, total plagiarism of mmogchart.com by some outside "MMO consultancy" agency.
The background behind the agency seems legit, but I'm unsure if the owner of mmogchart.com is aware of this site.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
"Well lots of people have used the awesome www.mmogchart.com for information on the MMOG market which was created and maintained by SirBruce for many years, however since 2006 SirBruce has not updated the site.
I thought this was a great shame and I have tried to contact SirBruce many times over the last 2 months to see if I could take over the site and maintain the data, I emailed, put posts on forums, even phone calls and contacted other people within the industry but just could not get hold of SirBruce so I have decided to create a new site (http://www.mmogdata.com) and continue his work."
FAQ:
6. Your numbers are all made up or are just guesses!
I assure you, they are not. It is true that many companies keep their subscriber numbers confidential, but others are more open about it. Almost all of the data I use comes from actual sources, although often those sources are insiders who only give the information on the condition of anonymity. If I simply wanted to make up numbers, I’d put out an update every week, and those updates would quickly be revealed as faulty when compared to, say, company press releases. So, while I am the first to admit that the data is not always reliable and it is most definitely not made up – or at least, not by me.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
this chart is totally wrong....SOE didnt announce that the game had sold 1 million copies until aug-05...this shows it meeting 3million subs in 03, about a month or 2, maybe 3, after the release....that is just not possible...and even if this chart was correct, it shows subs going down before the CU...which is what was happening...so SOE wanted to get more people, they though(wrongly) that it was the system, so they revamped it...then they saw wow with 5million+ subs, so they copied wow, put a star wars theme on it, and said "hey! "new" game "enhancements", come give us your money!"...it failed, now there is no doubt that if they released pre-cu back they would get more subs, but then they would have to deal with so many more professions, and wouldnt be able to push out publishes..or "chapters" as they call them now...and without any content being pushed out constantly then people would loose interest and not play it anymore...if they had a bigger...bigger as in 2 or 3 people for each profession, plus people on adding content, PLUS people working out bugs bigger...dev team, the game would roll, bugs being taken care of, new quests, planets, etc coming out, and professions getting their love, then this game would work, other then that...the game is too big for the dev team of 10 or so people to manage it
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
I miss the days when the servers were full. SOE made a “huge“mistake as we all know with the way SWG was handled. The funny thing is they are slowly changing the game back to pre NGE using the expertise system to attract old players. That’s what the lead producer stated at the SW 30th celebration. And there were no ads at all for SWG. Not even 1 banner. Source: (This is per Pooks over on star sider). They need more staff to bring this game back from a valid decline in subscriptions due to SOE’s poor decision with the NGE.
50 thousand subs is $750,000 a month. If they maintain that many subscribers for 12 months it equals to $ 9,000,000 for 12 months. So they can still have the SWG MMO in production. But only with a skeleton crew. That’s a real shame. At some point SOE and Lucas Arts are going to have to sink money into the game to revitalize it if that is their goals.
Personally SOE needs to issue a public apology. Then never turn on their subscribers again.
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
In all honesty, I don't think very many. It's all about trust and that trust is gone. There are folks who won't touch a SONY product because of the way they were treated by SOE. I'm sure a lot of folks would pick up a trial and check it out; but after a few days or maybe even a week, they'll see the game for what was... not that great at all. Which is ironic because, I've yet to find another game that I want to play. But all in all, once you've been there and done that, there's not much point. And that's the #1 reason you won't see any Pre-CU servers.
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
In all honesty, I don't think very many. It's all about trust and that trust is gone. There are folks who won't touch a SONY product because of the way they were treated by SOE. I'm sure a lot of folks would pick up a trial and check it out; but after a few days or maybe even a week, they'll see the game for what was... not that great at all. Which is ironic because, I've yet to find another game that I want to play. But all in all, once you've been there and done that, there's not much point. And that's the #1 reason you won't see any Pre-CU servers.they made classic EQ servers.. why not SWG?
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
A lot. The sheer amount of people that have protested from the start of nge to now proves it. It may have not all been at the same time, but theres a lot (thats including all the deleted ones from their old forums). I would guestimate 80% of the original population that left when cu hit and when nge hit, would come back to play. The other 20% wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole due to them knowing that it might happen again. But I really wouldn't blame them, would you?
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
A lot. The sheer amount of people that have protested from the start of nge to now proves it. It may have not all been at the same time, but theres a lot (thats including all the deleted ones from their old forums). I would guestimate 80% of the original population that left when cu hit and when nge hit, would come back to play. The other 20% wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole due to them knowing that it might happen again. But I really wouldn't blame them, would you? if the next game out by $OE comes with an eleven foot pole id try it rofl
Originally posted by ArcheusCross Originally posted by redriver ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
A lot. The sheer amount of people that have protested from the start of nge to now proves it. It may have not all been at the same time, but theres a lot (thats including all the deleted ones from their old forums). I would guestimate 80% of the original population that left when cu hit and when nge hit, would come back to play. The other 20% wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole due to them knowing that it might happen again. But I really wouldn't blame them, would you?
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
A lot. The sheer amount of people that have protested from the start of nge to now proves it. It may have not all been at the same time, but theres a lot (thats including all the deleted ones from their old forums). I would guestimate 80% of the original population that left when cu hit and when nge hit, would come back to play. The other 20% wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole due to them knowing that it might happen again. But I really wouldn't blame them, would you?
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
Indeed, because they would have stuck to their guns, fix the issues, etc. Then when the wow people started to get bored of wow, they would have came to us and revitalized the number of subs... now.. ugh...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
for a more accurate and unbiased view on swg subscription numbers
In Fantasyland? Maybe Bizarroworld?
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I think these numbers are a joke, that is as viable as me saying that the game just hit 8 million subscribers yesterday Only SoE knows the numbers.
Well, he claims to get the from what he considers reliable sources, and doesn't just make them up. His credibility is on the line. SOE can disprove him at any moment. The fact that they do not gives us every reason to believe the figures are true.
When you keep facts hidden, people are entitled to believe the best evidence available. That's what this is.
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
A lot. The sheer amount of people that have protested from the start of nge to now proves it. It may have not all been at the same time, but theres a lot (thats including all the deleted ones from their old forums). I would guestimate 80% of the original population that left when cu hit and when nge hit, would come back to play. The other 20% wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole due to them knowing that it might happen again. But I really wouldn't blame them, would you?
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
Indeed, because they would have stuck to their guns, fix the issues, etc. Then when the wow people started to get bored of wow, they would have came to us and revitalized the number of subs... now.. ugh...
Amen. In fact, just before the CU, they WERE. Many of my friends who had left to try WoW were getting bored and coming back, then the CU hit and they left for good. well, all but one, who left with the NGE.
ok lets assume for a moment those numbers are fairly accurate.. how many of the missin' 250k accounts do ya recon would make it back if SoE made pre-CU servers available?
A lot. The sheer amount of people that have protested from the start of nge to now proves it. It may have not all been at the same time, but theres a lot (thats including all the deleted ones from their old forums). I would guestimate 80% of the original population that left when cu hit and when nge hit, would come back to play. The other 20% wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole due to them knowing that it might happen again. But I really wouldn't blame them, would you?
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
Indeed, because they would have stuck to their guns, fix the issues, etc. Then when the wow people started to get bored of wow, they would have came to us and revitalized the number of subs... now.. ugh...
Amen. In fact, just before the CU, they WERE. Many of my friends who had left to try WoW were getting bored and coming back, then the CU hit and they left for good. well, all but one, who left with the NGE.
I saw this too fella. Many of my friends on our ventrilo server (used for voice over IP chat) were playing different game but all were getting bored and heading down the path of coming back. They were in essence just taking a vacation from SWG, they were all considering coming back just as long as they saw publishing fixing and revamping things. And to be honest, although ranger was only just starting to get addressed, the development of the game was really starting to kick into gear and was making very possitive steps with lots of players coming back or at the least considering coming back.
With the NGE however all those (my friends included) just upded and left or were completely put off by it. The characters they wanted to come back to were lost in a game a they didnt know, didnt like and didnt want to be a part of.
If SOE would of gone ahead with their profession revamps of the most incomplete classes and fixed the issues they were working on, they would of gone from base suscribers to many more as they would of attracted returnees. I dare say that after the CU more people were actually coming back as it balanced a lot fo the things they hated about the game and finally jedi were being knocked down from elite profession to just a standard one. We all hated what jedis did to the game but it still could of worked.
SOE just closed the door to returning players by turning it into another wow for which customers were already bored of. They simply stayed with the more complete and developed linear experieince, WoW.
Well, the ghost servers certainly support the dismal SWG numbers. Even the more 'populated' servers look abandoned compared to the same servers before the dark times...the NGE. The chart doesn't show me anything that wasn't already quite obvious to me and quite a few others.....but it sure agitates the fanbois.
"Well lots of people have used the awesome www.mmogchart.com for information on the MMOG market which was created and maintained by SirBruce for many years, however since 2006 SirBruce has not updated the site.
I thought this was a great shame and I have tried to contact SirBruce many times over the last 2 months to see if I could take over the site and maintain the data, I emailed, put posts on forums, even phone calls and contacted other people within the industry but just could not get hold of SirBruce so I have decided to create a new site (http://www.mmogdata.com) and continue his work."
I did read through the entire site rather thoroughly before making my comment, and I made it because several parts of the site are pretty much ad verbatim. I have an issue with his logic. His excuse is crap, because SirBruce only updated his site sparsely as it was in 2006.
What really bothers me is that, while it's perfectly respectable that he wanted to continue the research and branch it out as he claims, he committed a serious breach of ethics by ripping the old research. Two months is not sufficient notice. You don't just rip posted research without having some sort of co-authoring agreement beforehand, that's just not cool. He's essentially stealing data.
It's very troublesome because this guy, like SirBruce, is a consultant and will likely use these charts for service sales presentation purposes.
Well, SirBRuce gives blanket permission to use his research on any individual's website, research papers, etc, as long as you give him credit for it, so it's not stealing. He doesn't even require permission or notice. Improper citation, perhaps, but that's it.
This is some BS because i know the servers POP went up a little bit once NGE was enabled. Because I re-up my subscription just to see how it was. And either way it goes NGE didnt destroy this game, its just no longer that much fun after its mojo wore off.
Well, SirBRuce gives blanket permission to use his research on any individual's website, research papers, etc, as long as you give him credit for it, so it's not stealing. He doesn't even require permission or notice. Improper citation, perhaps, but that's it.
First, Bruce's statement is more or less a blanket statement for research and reference, not for reuse as sales. Those are two different things. But even so, in consulting it's professional courtesy to at least reach the other person before posting their work and claiming it as even a part of yours. That means unless you get in touch with the other party, you don't use their data without explicit references and differentiation.
From an analyst's point of view, it is extremely unprofessional, and no amount of blanket statements will make it appear otherwise.
Here's my issue in a nutshell:
SirBruce and mmogchart.com
6. Can I use your site as a reference in my <web site/research paper/news article/etc.>?
Sure! Just be sure to include the current URL, the version you’re referencing, and my name. The whole point of this site is to provide this data for free for use by those interested in the industry. If you’re working on a research paper, an example citation would look like this:
Woodcock, Bruce Sterling. “An Analysis of MMOG Subscription Growth” MMOGCHART.COM 12.0. 29 November 2004. 1 January 2005. <http://www.mmogchart.com>;
Vortal and mmogdata.com
9. Can I use your site as a reference in my [web site/research paper/news article/etc.]?
Of course! Just be sure to include the current URL, the version you’re referencing, and my name. The whole point of this site is to provide this data for free for use by those interested in the industry. If you’re working on a research paper, an example citation would look like this:
That's direct ad verbatim plagiarism of MMOGChart.com. Vortal basically downloaded the fucking site and reposted it as his own work.
Reusing data is fine, if permitted, but this guy could be a bit more professional about it. That alone is enough to slant the site and the work's credibility.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Comments
I've said in other posts that SOE never truly appreciated the fact that the community in SWG was their meal ticket.
I'd go even further back in server populations and say that the introduction of holocrons was the beginning of the downward spiral in subscription numbers. On the pre-release forums we were constantly told a.) how much freedom we were going to have to play the game as we wanted to and b.) how unique and mysterious the path to Jedi would be.
I know a large number of people left when the holocrons revealed that a.) if you ever wanted to atain Force senstivity you'd have to play the game the way SOE wanted you to and b.) the path to Jedi was just a typical MMORPG grind.
SOE has tried three times to make SWG a better game, and every time they've seen a drop in subs. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if I learned the only major thing that they ever introduced without an adverse effect on sub numbers was JtL.
Which no offense because we are on the same side, but doesn't mean crap to me. I wouldn't care if swg pre-cu had 10k users.
This entire subscriber numbers discussion is stupid and serves no one. Does subscriptions make a game good? WoW has tons of players. I HATED that game and thought it sucked. If you base any decision on popularity your doing yourself a major disservice.
The Pre-CU version of the game was simply a better all around video game the the NGE version. The reasons and discussions for that are numerous. I hope we can stick to making our point that way as opposed to making it a popularity contests.
Clearly its should be a beauty pagnet. The NGE is the equalivant of Rosie O'Donnell. The Pre-CU is Jessica Alba.
P.S. Plus we all already know our game was more popular on top of being better so what is the point besides rubbing it in.
No offense taken.
Although they are not there yet....
it seems that all SOE MMO games are moving towards "deadmanland"
abandon ship anyone? lol
If EA's behavior after the Sims Online flopped, I wouldn't be surprised. High profille sure thing turns sour, and next thing you know the EA Online titles that had small but stable communities (Motor City Online, Earth and Beyond) are suddenly given the axe so that the company as a whole can regroup.
Given that bit of industry precident, the failure of Vanguard may have a more detrimental effect on the future of SWG than any CU or NGE. Given that Sony as a whole is bleeding cash on the PS3 debacle, and is still suffering in other key areas (aren't they still losing market share on consumer electronics?) I don't see their shareholders being friendly to anything considered dead weight for long.
How would LucasArts factor into that? I've continued to support them as a company, but SWG has seemed like the read-headed stepchild on their end since shortly after JtL hit retail.
The background behind the agency seems legit, but I'm unsure if the owner of mmogchart.com is aware of this site.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
"Well lots of people have used the awesome www.mmogchart.com for information on the MMOG market which was created and maintained by SirBruce for many years, however since 2006 SirBruce has not updated the site.
I thought this was a great shame and I have tried to contact SirBruce many times over the last 2 months to see if I could take over the site and maintain the data, I emailed, put posts on forums, even phone calls and contacted other people within the industry but just could not get hold of SirBruce so I have decided to create a new site (http://www.mmogdata.com) and continue his work."
FAQ:
6. Your numbers are all made up or are just guesses!
I assure you, they are not. It is true that many companies keep their subscriber numbers confidential, but others are more open about it. Almost all of the data I use comes from actual sources, although often those sources are insiders who only give the information on the condition of anonymity. If I simply wanted to make up numbers, I’d put out an update every week, and those updates would quickly be revealed as faulty when compared to, say, company press releases. So, while I am the first to admit that the data is not always reliable and it is most definitely not made up – or at least, not by me.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Umm... it says 300k not 3 million
I miss the days when the servers were full. SOE made a “huge“mistake as we all know with the way SWG was handled. The funny thing is they are slowly changing the game back to pre NGE using the expertise system to attract old players. That’s what the lead producer stated at the SW 30th celebration. And there were no ads at all for SWG. Not even 1 banner. Source: (This is per Pooks over on star sider). They need more staff to bring this game back from a valid decline in subscriptions due to SOE’s poor decision with the NGE.
50 thousand subs is $750,000 a month. If they maintain that many subscribers for 12 months it equals to $ 9,000,000 for 12 months. So they can still have the SWG MMO in production. But only with a skeleton crew. That’s a real shame. At some point SOE and Lucas Arts are going to have to sink money into the game to revitalize it if that is their goals.
Personally SOE needs to issue a public apology. Then never turn on their subscribers again.
Classic SWG > CUNGE
In all honesty, I don't think very many. It's all about trust and that trust is gone. There are folks who won't touch a SONY product because of the way they were treated by SOE. I'm sure a lot of folks would pick up a trial and check it out; but after a few days or maybe even a week, they'll see the game for what was... not that great at all. Which is ironic because, I've yet to find another game that I want to play. But all in all, once you've been there and done that, there's not much point. And that's the #1 reason you won't see any Pre-CU servers.they made classic EQ servers.. why not SWG?"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
Indeed, because they would have stuck to their guns, fix the issues, etc. Then when the wow people started to get bored of wow, they would have came to us and revitalized the number of subs... now.. ugh...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well, he claims to get the from what he considers reliable sources, and doesn't just make them up. His credibility is on the line. SOE can disprove him at any moment. The fact that they do not gives us every reason to believe the figures are true.
When you keep facts hidden, people are entitled to believe the best evidence available. That's what this is.
fishermage.blogspot.com
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
Indeed, because they would have stuck to their guns, fix the issues, etc. Then when the wow people started to get bored of wow, they would have came to us and revitalized the number of subs... now.. ugh...
Amen. In fact, just before the CU, they WERE. Many of my friends who had left to try WoW were getting bored and coming back, then the CU hit and they left for good. well, all but one, who left with the NGE.
fishermage.blogspot.com
More than they have now. Less than they wish they could have.
Had the CUNGE never happened instead content been done no question the game would have 3-4 times the current subs.
Indeed, because they would have stuck to their guns, fix the issues, etc. Then when the wow people started to get bored of wow, they would have came to us and revitalized the number of subs... now.. ugh...
Amen. In fact, just before the CU, they WERE. Many of my friends who had left to try WoW were getting bored and coming back, then the CU hit and they left for good. well, all but one, who left with the NGE.
I saw this too fella. Many of my friends on our ventrilo server (used for voice over IP chat) were playing different game but all were getting bored and heading down the path of coming back. They were in essence just taking a vacation from SWG, they were all considering coming back just as long as they saw publishing fixing and revamping things. And to be honest, although ranger was only just starting to get addressed, the development of the game was really starting to kick into gear and was making very possitive steps with lots of players coming back or at the least considering coming back.
With the NGE however all those (my friends included) just upded and left or were completely put off by it. The characters they wanted to come back to were lost in a game a they didnt know, didnt like and didnt want to be a part of.
If SOE would of gone ahead with their profession revamps of the most incomplete classes and fixed the issues they were working on, they would of gone from base suscribers to many more as they would of attracted returnees. I dare say that after the CU more people were actually coming back as it balanced a lot fo the things they hated about the game and finally jedi were being knocked down from elite profession to just a standard one. We all hated what jedis did to the game but it still could of worked.
SOE just closed the door to returning players by turning it into another wow for which customers were already bored of. They simply stayed with the more complete and developed linear experieince, WoW.
What really bothers me is that, while it's perfectly respectable that he wanted to continue the research and branch it out as he claims, he committed a serious breach of ethics by ripping the old research. Two months is not sufficient notice. You don't just rip posted research without having some sort of co-authoring agreement beforehand, that's just not cool. He's essentially stealing data.
It's very troublesome because this guy, like SirBruce, is a consultant and will likely use these charts for service sales presentation purposes.
Well, SirBRuce gives blanket permission to use his research on any individual's website, research papers, etc, as long as you give him credit for it, so it's not stealing. He doesn't even require permission or notice. Improper citation, perhaps, but that's it.
fishermage.blogspot.com
From an analyst's point of view, it is extremely unprofessional, and no amount of blanket statements will make it appear otherwise.
Here's my issue in a nutshell:
That's direct ad verbatim plagiarism of MMOGChart.com. Vortal basically downloaded the fucking site and reposted it as his own work.
Reusing data is fine, if permitted, but this guy could be a bit more professional about it. That alone is enough to slant the site and the work's credibility.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW