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Mythic, Im impressed so far
Greslore
Member Posts: 243
After watching all the podcasts in http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/ I must say I am thoroughly impressed. It seems they are marketing WAR based solely on simply explaining their product. No spins, no ploys, no rhetoric, just "This is what a Christmas quest is", "This is how PVP will work", etc.
I also really enjoyed how they went into depth in regards to how they are developing WAR from a technical stand point. I learned quite a bit about the industry.
I am now dying to give this game a try. I am a bit skeptical because of how much I've been let down in the past by MMOs, but so far am really impressed with everything I am seeing about WAR.
I also really enjoyed how they went into depth in regards to how they are developing WAR from a technical stand point. I learned quite a bit about the industry.
I am now dying to give this game a try. I am a bit skeptical because of how much I've been let down in the past by MMOs, but so far am really impressed with everything I am seeing about WAR.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
Comments
I think also whats a big contributing factor to how well this game is made and its not a new idea, WH has been around for 20 years, and has many fans that have high expectations, and the factt hat many of the people making the game seem to be fans shows also, EA Mythic also have another MMO under there belt so they know how to make one work as they have learnt from their mistakes already, and with other successful mmos out there they can take enjoyable concepts from them games.
Ill be honest here by saying "I liked WoW!" and for many people to say that this game is going to be a wow rip off im kinda pleased as my fav parts of that game was the PvP, and WAR is RvR first then PvE as a thing to do till your next prey shows up
So you're going to estimate the game based on the marketing technique? Well, I reckon whatever works is fine, but consider this.
It's a game with Orcs, Elves, Humans, Dwarves, etc. They are divided into two realms, constantly at war with each other. PvP is in duels, battlegrounds, etc.
Is that concept itself anything revolutionary? No, I think not. In fact, I think the vast majority of people worldwide who play MMORPG are *already* playing that exact game. It would take a lot more than matter-of-fact marketing to make me consider this lamentably "me too" example of the genre.
So you're going to estimate the game based on the marketing technique? Well, I reckon whatever works is fine, but consider this.
It's a game with Orcs, Elves, Humans, Dwarves, etc. They are divided into two realms, constantly at war with each other. PvP is in duels, battlegrounds, etc.
Is that concept itself anything revolutionary? No, I think not. In fact, I think the vast majority of people worldwide who play MMORPG are *already* playing that exact game. It would take a lot more than matter-of-fact marketing to make me consider this lamentably "me too" example of the genre.
I didn't say the concept of the game was revolutionary, i was referring to the marketing / released information / pod casts ect ect... which is what the thread is about. But in fact, much of the game IS revolutionary, for example the quest system which will be completely unique to Warhammer. mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/flash/pp_Quests_bitrate.html
If you knew more about Warhammer you would know the PVP too is revolutionized its not just BG/duels...www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/pp_TypesofRvR_bitrate.html
You list the races as if an Elf is an Elf is an Elf, do you think Orcs in Warhammer are identical to Orcs in World of Warcraft, or Everquest? they all have drastically different backgrounds... just like a Human from say...Dark Age of Camelot, and a human from Lineage 2 , could the lore be any more different? you should learn not to judge a book by its cover.
look at EVERY single sci fi based MMO i can stereotype it just like you can stereotype fantasy/Warhammer .. theres humans...and different variations of human/machine and human/biological and they're probably fighting for planets or against aliens.
Aside from DAoC there is no game with factions warring against each other. If you say WoW I'll /laugh. WoW is mostly PVE game and non-existent world PVP and a sham of BGs with most of the focus of the pvp in arena which is nothing but death match/Quake style PVP.
I am looking forward to a game that is like DAoC style PVP with new engine and game mechanics.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Ditto! It's nice to see that Mythic is taking the approach that they don't have to do the same thing that everyone else has done before them (Don't tell the community much details, keep them in the dark and feed them vague, enigmatic hype)
I think this same approach of not just following what previous developers have done can be found in game mechanics in WAR like the Public Quests and Zone Control conflict for example.
WAR and Tabula Rasa can't wait!
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
This is what WAR is doing. They are LISTENING to what we want. They know our situation, they know what works best, and they are making a game to cater to what I, and MANY other players want.
Ok when you compare War and AoC its like comparing Harry Potter to Gladiator..one is meant for children, and the other adults, or mature audience, or gamers who like to see some freaking blood!! Trust me, Aoc has more lore then WAR, 70 years of books compared to 20, ahah wut can be better eh? But hell if you rather be Harry Potter then a Gladiator, like russel crow cutting, someones head off, thats your gay decesion i guess
I dont get you, the whole reason why i play mmos is to have more freedom, to feel progression for my OWN character, not the devs. If i want that i would play a single player game, MMOS should all be about making your own personal character, making your own decesions, do u want to be a mercernary? a soldier for the orcs? Or do u want to desert and make be a hermit...How can u not see the endless potential in a system like that
On the note of comabt, fine thats fair, You'll get bored like me one day and ask the same questions I ask: Why can't they make a new combat system?
Well I agree with some and see issues with other parts of what you said.
I'm not a warhammer geek to be sure. I see a lot in WAR where imho I see Mythic looking at the good/bad of DAoC and trying to "get it right" which may in the end be wrong.
Like how crowd control will work (I've read somewhere it still exists to a point) that definitely was something learned from DAoC. I know I read they went with two realms because they through the 3rd wouldn't be appealing. I thought it was to address another issue that came up in DAoC that was pvp related but.. anyway..
Pretty much look at Mythic and you'll see why as you say the game has a good pvp design.
Look at the PvE in DAoC or the few EA mmo's (remember they shut down at least one maybe more and killed off a few other projects).. um pve isn't really their strong point.
Ultima Online had the "interest team" before the volunteer projects were dissolved. That was as close to player created content in a major (aka doing ok population wise) mmo that I've seen. I was part of that.. so basicly this ramble was leading up to addressing your feeling of wanting to create quests/content.
No.. its not hard as others would claim to create content. When I was a Seer on the Great Lakes shard of UO.. I created tons of story lines and long term quests. I don't think I'm really all that talented but even *I* came up with things people enjoyed doing. I was also very active compared to most of the people on my shard.
Its just you have to think of all the little things they need to deal with to allow player created content. Ways to keep it from being exploited etc (when I ran a quests gold/items that normally wouldn't be in the world were dropped... that should give you an idea what I mean).
I'm not sure if I'll play WAR.. simply because.. after the SI expansion in DAoC, I thought it did nothing but go down hill. I was still playing the game on Gareth.. but it got so bad at least imho.. that I finally just fully cut loose .. sold my accounts etc etc
EA .. and Mythic have not overly impressed me in the past.. but I do keep an eye on the game.
Please review your facts before posting.
Warhammer: created: 1983
Conan: Created 1932
What you fail to mention is between 1932 and 1936 only 21 short stories were written. For the next 40 years nothing was written or done about Conan! It was not until 1977 that the stories were even republished. The novels and true Conan time line did not start until early 1980s.
So in fact Conan has had about 3 years as far as time line construction on Warhammer. I would say that makes them pretty much equals in history depth.
BTW novels are a poor indication about content history. Novels usually revolve around limited characters and span months at the most in a chronological time frame. I would hazard that from a time line and total history perspective the warhammer world edges Conan. Again they are about equal.
There is your schooling. Now get off your high horse and stop making insulting remarks.
Now onto your points.
If you think Conan will be any more cutting edge or R rating oriented you are delusional. That cuts out about 60% of an MMOs target base. In order to survive they will pander to the masses just like any good corporate boy. They know that to alienate even a fraction of the potential customer base is game suicide. They will crash and burn just like so many MMOs before them. They have shown nothing that would indicate cutting edge which you are so vocal about. No radical PvP system that has not been tried before. No combat system that has not been tried before. No quest or character creation system that has not been tried before.
Please list the cutting edge elements to Conan and I will site the MMO that has done it before.
What you want in MMOs (per your previous posts) you will not find for a while. There is to much involved on top of the regular MMO development to add player controlled content. It is also way to hard to protect against exploitation and also from a legal perspective too risky. It may be done eventually but not for at least 2 - 3 more generations of MMOs. Not enough reward versus risk. If you think like a player you can't understand how companies think.
All in all Conan and Warhammer will be about on par with each other. Each will offer slightly different characteristics to distance themselves from the other MMOs, but basically the same as everything else coming out.
There is not a single MMO on the horizon right now that is anywhere near cutting edge or revolutionary period.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Please review your facts before posting.
Warhammer: created: 1983
Conan: Created 1932
What you fail to mention is between 1932 and 1936 only 21 short stories were written. For the next 40 years nothing was written or done about Conan! It was not until 1977 that the stories were even republished. The novels and true Conan time line did not start until early 1980s.
So in fact Conan has had about 3 years as far as time line construction on Warhammer. I would say that makes them pretty much equals in history depth.
BTW novels are a poor indication about content history. Novels usually revolve around limited characters and span months at the most in a chronological time frame. I would hazard that from a time line and total history perspective the warhammer world edges Conan. Again they are about equal.
There is your schooling. Now get off your high horse and stop making insulting remarks.
Now onto your points.
If you think Conan will be any more cutting edge or R rating oriented you are delusional. That cuts out about 60% of an MMOs target base. In order to survive they will pander to the masses just like any good corporate boy. They know that to alienate even a fraction of the potential customer base is game suicide. They will crash and burn just like so many MMOs before them. They have shown nothing that would indicate cutting edge which you are so vocal about. No radical PvP system that has not been tried before. No combat system that has not been tried before. No quest or character creation system that has not been tried before.
Please list the cutting edge elements to Conan and I will site the MMO that has done it before.
What you want in MMOs (per your previous posts) you will not find for a while. There is to much involved on top of the regular MMO development to add player controlled content. It is also way to hard to protect against exploitation and also from a legal perspective too risky. It may be done eventually but not for at least 2 - 3 more generations of MMOs. Not enough reward versus risk. If you think like a player you can't understand how companies think.
All in all Conan and Warhammer will be about on par with each other. Each will offer slightly different characteristics to distance themselves from the other MMOs, but basically the same as everything else coming out.
There is not a single MMO on the horizon right now that is anywhere near cutting edge or revolutionary period.
ok mr. mmo know it all, what mmo games have had the following (what AoC will have) :
1. Physics based mounted combat
2. 5 point directional combat system
3. Formation combat; the ability to assign a formation leader and make a formation like a straight line, or tight/loose formation
4. Ranged/archery combat that also exhbits a 5 point combat system where u can manually aim for the head, chest, legs etc which will all have different benefits and negatives for hitting
5. Ranged mounted combat; shoulder view
6. RTS elements that show a AI that will "hive" or build their own towns/villages inorder to destroy ours.
7. Border Kingomds, ability to build your own battlekeep inorder to obtain more resources: wood, ore etc..
8. Quests that effect your characters apperance
9. Mature rating that will, for the first time in a mmo, allow excessive amounts of blood and gore with decpitations of the limbs.
10. Fatality moves, example: A class, the hybrid hearald of Xoliti, can preform a fatality move that will remove the heart of his target and the eventual cosumation of the heart.
11. first mmo to have dx10 graphics
Btw your comment on the mature rating and blood: you make it sound like the majority of gamers are 14 years old and cant handle some blood..you also make it sound like its one of the first games to have this much blood and gore..you exaggerated american conservative qutie a bit there
I want to play a balanced pvp game.
Picture the streets of compton south central LA, the blocks of Camden NJ, the corners of Baltamore and the back alleys of Philly. I want to play a game thats like a gang war.
I pick my crew, you pick your crew we meet up randomly and its on. No you dont get to bring a Tank to a fist fight (like epics in wow) Being the best gang gets you the most respect but be afraid, because the #2 and #3 gangs are always looking for you in hopes to take you our and be #1.
I dont want to play little fun mini games to entertain myself. Thats like taking the bloods and Latin Kings and making them play basketball at the YMCA insted of brawling in the street. I want to have a real WAR. come outside and defend your block, if you cant do it, we are going to take your block over. And your rewarded for how much you fight and how much teritory you take from your rival.... not how much time you spend playing video games or computer controled opponents slaying computer controled dragons ect ect.
Heh... noticed you backed down from the history content... good boy.
First everything you have said is in the game... is not actually in the game until it goes live and we see it. However to be fair I will answer each one individually.
1) None that I am aware of... Planet side did not have a good physics engine so IF it is true when the game comes out... 1 pt you.
2) A simple version of this is in The Chronicles of Spellborn. However other RPGs have tried similar combat systems to mixed results. 0 pts
3) ShadowBane, Gods and Heroes. 1 pt for me.
4) Simpler version in PlanetSide. 0 pts
5) If they actually get it in the game. 1 pt for you.
6) City building ShadowBane, AI city building (if it is in) none. 0 pts
7) ShadowBane. 1 pt me.
8) Warhammer online. 1 pt me.
9) Gods and heroes. 1pt me.
10) Gods and Heroes. 1pt me.
11) Marvel Universe. 1pt me. (I should count this as 2 pts as Conan will be in DX9 and 10 since 10 is vista only and very limited right now)
Lets see... 2 pts you... 6 pts me.
So you listed potentially 2 things that Conan might be unique on. None really earth shattering. It is not a next gen MMO.
Heh you missed my point entirely on the mature rating for the reason I stated. Notice I said R rating... Games can easily get a mature rating for a nipple slip, adult content, or blood. I think if it is even in the release... you will see the violence and any adult content slowly removed to make room for a larger player base. No publisher or developer will commit financial suicide over some blood and boobs.
Hell, WOW was completely tame to start with and they removed some of the content and character sounds for being too suggestive. They have even replaced most of the racier armor pieces. Conan will be no different.
BTW: I am not conservative at all... I wish there were more mature games out there that could handle a more mature player base. There just is to much competition in the genre right now for that to be possible.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Hello, I'm no wiz kid or gaming expert of any sort but I have been around playing mmorpgs since EQ1 was first released and got to experience DAOC when that was first released.
I'm not a super hard core player but play up to 4-6 hours maby more if I find a game I really like, and it holds my interest.
I find the older I get I have spend more time at work or at home with familiy obligations. So finding the right game to invest a monthly fee, some free time and ultimately a few years developing a character such as in the original EQ is important to me.
What bothers me a bit is alot of posts and comparisons of mmorpgs being thrown out there without any real information to support it, and all the hype of any mmorpg being developed is the next "WOW KILLER"
WoW is definately not all about PvP or RvR. Been there done that, several toons 60-70 beta tested phase 2 - present.
WoW is a fun game with lots to like and some dislikes for me. My biggest gripe with WoW is as with EQ1 and EQ2 is that you pretty much have to belong to some guild or group of raiding buddies to get any end game gear that is truely awesome. There is the long long road to awesome epic gear by PvP and with some recent content faction grinding but that takes far too much time and begings to bore after a few hours. I have to solo alot because of work/home schedule and enjoy solo play alot as well as ocassional groups.
No one really has any clue if AOC a good game other than some screens and guessing.
The fact that a podcast was used to explain some in-game content (how questing will work) IMO was out of the box and very entertaining.
Anyone who has played DAOC from the first CD released through the expacs knows how the game has changed alot regarding RvR and class balances.
What i hope WAR will bring to the table is some type of balance (any mature player knows its almost impossible to get this right and maintain partly due to pressure from whiners, crybabies and companies giving into the player base)
I don't mean to troll on, just trying to get some points out as an older gamer.
Lastly DAOC used to be one of the most fun and exciting games I've ever played. From the BGs to pve it had a little bit of everything and was a challenging game. The most fun ever was running the lv 24 Bg with an assasin class and reeking as much havoc on the other 2 realms as possible.
Im looking forward to playing WAR because I think this game will bring back the core of RvR or PvP wich ever you prefer to call it, and give players who have some skill and experience in mmorpgs a chance to shine again and reap some rewards and prestiege by playing smarter, using teamwork, and a bit of luck.
IMO the current state of WoW and some other mmorpgs pvp is nothing more than a gank fest with the flavor class of the month everywhere you look.
It appears that WAR will not be as heavily dependant on gear as WoW and other games and this is encouarging to a mostly solo player like myself.
Hopefully I get a chance to beta test WAR and experience what already looks to be shaping up to the next great mmorpg, and WAR doesn't have to be a "WoW KILLER" to be successful.
Ok when you compare War and AoC its like comparing Harry Potter to Gladiator..one is meant for children, and the other adults, or mature audience, or gamers who like to see some freaking blood!! Trust me, Aoc has more lore then WAR, 70 years of books compared to 20, ahah wut can be better eh? But hell if you rather be Harry Potter then a Gladiator, like russel crow cutting, someones head off, thats your gay decesion i guess
I dont get you, the whole reason why i play mmos is to have more freedom, to feel progression for my OWN character, not the devs. If i want that i would play a single player game, MMOS should all be about making your own personal character, making your own decesions, do u want to be a mercernary? a soldier for the orcs? Or do u want to desert and make be a hermit...How can u not see the endless potential in a system like that
On the note of comabt, fine thats fair, You'll get bored like me one day and ask the same questions I ask: Why can't they make a new combat system?
For your first paragraph all I have to say is I never even mentioned ANYTHING about AoC so don't even bring it up.
your second is if you give people all that freedom they'll end up following everyone else. Ya great use of the sandbox.
your 3rd you'll be saying the same thing one day when AoC brings out their combat system.
The comments made reminded me of my experience last year at GenCon. Both Mythic and Blizzard were in the vendor hall, Blizzard was showing off BC and Mythic was demoing WAR. Although I was a HUGE WoW fanboy at the time I had no interest in dealing with the staff after seeing their reaction to other people's questions. Every question was answered by pointing them to a computer and saying "play it."
Mythic, on the other hand, had a smaller booth in the back with about 4 machines running WAR. I walked over, grabbed the literature, and raised an eyebrow. Instantly, a staff member approached and asked if I wanted to play. To tell you the truth I was overwhelmed at the idea that one of my favorite games was entering the mmo world, so I rejected the offer to play. She asked if I had any questions, and I replied with a barrage of inquiries. Each one was fielded by a staff member whose expertise was in the field of whatever subject I wanted to know about. They also weren't shy about what information they gave out, and also not shy to say "we don't know, but contact so-and-so and this email address."
I did eventually break down and played the game. To say that it looked and felt like WoW would be unfair, I mean, to me, WoW looks and feels like every other MMO out there. I log on, create a character, immerse myself into the world, get pissed off at the infants who pretend to be "leet" (whatever the hell that means), log off, lather, rinse, repeat. So, yeah, it looked and felt like an MMO, but it was their approach to the game that won me over. The attitude reminded me of when I first started gaming over 25 years ago. No secrets, no fabricated drama, and no claims that "our game is completely different than the others"....just a simple demonstration of the game by people who were knowledgeable about the game, no unnecessary bells and whistles.
And as far as the smugness goes in this thread, c'mon folks, we're all here for the same reason...we love to game. Remember when we would go to the arcade, there were no flame wars because I wanted to put $3 in quarters into Joust, and someone else spent their money on Pole Position, we just play 'em 'cuz we like 'em. It's just that simple.
Currently Playing: Nothing...I'm developing.
Looking Forward To:
It is comparable to starting a job as a butcher and saying to yourself "hey, I think I can do this job with out knives". They have tried to do this in the past and none have been successful. Like I said before... anything minor in the current MMOs that can be seen as edgy have been removed. Any kind of group especially one for children can severely impact an MMOs profits. While we like to think everyone playing these games are 18+ there are still a tremendous amount of underage teens too. You pretty much wipe that entire market away in one fell swoop.
Corps are not out to make a little money... they want profit, a lot of it. If they barely break even... they fold up the game and go on to something else. It has happened countless times.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Sure, you can argue lore will attract a fan base... but lets concern ourselves with long time periods. Which game will last longer and potentially make a larger name for itself? AoC or WAR? Who knows at this point... both are in beta.
You can take 70 years of lore from AoC as well as the 20 or w/e from WAR and throw it out the window. When the games are live for one year and counting... then we can start deciding if either company did what they set out to do.