I must say I am truely impressed by the number of companies sacrificing their playerbase and bottom line before they even launch.
Signing with a company that so many associate with "satan", low quality, and bad buissness practices smacks of a tight financial situation. The only real question I have is not if soe is going to buy this game out but when??
I must say I am truely impressed by the number of companies sacrificing their playerbase and bottom line before they even launch. Signing with a company that so many associate with "satan", low quality, and bad buissness practices smacks of a tight financial situation. The only real question I have is not if soe is going to buy this game out but when??
FLS have said many, many times that they are in excellent financial shape. I saw no evidence that would cause me to doubt that. Take it for what its worth.
Big difference between POTBS and Vanguard, one was done and ready to be published the other was a Beta product forced to release well before it's time.
If we believe what the devs have been saying at their site this game is in great shape, they've taken the time while they've been waiting to work out a publisher to polish the content in the game getting a 1000 missions per nationality. They arent sitting with a game that is no where near ready to play hoping it'll catch on enough to last while they work the bugs out. Sigil admitted straight up that Vanguard was released early. They lied in saying it was only a few months early rather than 6 months to a year.
Originally posted by farore For the people that are not gonna play the game Because of SoE i feel bad for you. Its not that hard to understand how the relationship is gonna work. SoE is not in charge of game development plane and simple and if you choose to not go with them because of past game experiences you dont have to worry about any of that with FLS, I had a per cu SWG character and lost alot of stuff because of the NGE and Cu but that doesn't meen I should hold another company accountable by not buying there game.
Actually, it does mean that you should hold all companies that continue to do business with SOE accountable. Anytime a business partnership happens, there are PR consequences. Lots of people won't buy PotBS simply because they are partnered with SOE now. FLS knew that when they made the contract decision. They're hoping people will give them a chance and others simply won't care.. no, they're banking on that actually.
I won't even mention this game to my SOE hating friends now. I tried to explain to them that Vanguard was only being published by SOE, they had nothing to do with the actual game itself. My friends wouldn't hear of it. When SOE purchased Vanguard/Sigil, although I certainly couldn't see it coming, it happened and it looked like they (my friends) were right and I was the fool. C'est la vie.
Like I said, to me, this is not a big deal. But to say that you should expect anything different than from what happened with Vanguard would be, well, shame on you. Expect the worst, hope for the best.
SOE has zero control over POTBS.POTPS is in strong financial shape and has complete design control.
Yep, it's just like the Vangurd days before the truth finally hit. So, keep on believing that 'til the end.
I'm not aware of what Sigil's situation was, but FLS still has the financial security to release the game without a publisher - In fact, they just hired more employees! They only want to have the game successfully localized, advertised, and sold in retail stores. If they didn't sign a contract with a publisher, the game would have been available for download online.
the amount of doom preachers is truly amazing. The article clearly says that SOE will only do the publishing, marketing, things like that.
Comparing it to Vanguard is absolutely pointless. Vanguard was taken over by SOE because it bombed and ran out of funds. This was actually a good thing, if SOE didn't take it over, then Vanguard would have been shut down. PotBS clearly says that they have enough funds, and even if it bombs and SOE has to take it over, then thats always much better then having the game shut down.
If Potbs has teh SoE tag next to its name then i will be holdign off on getting this game for at least a month or 2. If reports about the game are not above 70% good, then i wont be purchasing it period!
Why, because every single game that has had the SoE tag has been ball'ed up completly. Vanguard was said to only have SoE as its distributer at first, then joint, b ut no control (load of BS), you could tell after 3 days SoE were pulling the strings for VG (many though couldnt see that and said sigil had control), now after SoE takes over completly those VG diehard fans were wrong. I aint going to waste money and have the same crap pulled on me again.
Thats now 2 games (gods and heroes-rome rising, and Pirates of teh burning sea) that have the SoE tag next to their names and both will go to teh bottom of my 4 game list, only leaves Warhammer online (alias W.A.R) and Age of Conan left. As i already mentioned any SoE title will be at least 1-2 months runnign BEFORE i purchase it unless you get to see how the game is and how it runs in a last part beta stage (server stress test) or free first 7 days to view the gameplay, then you will know if its buggy, crash's or whatever.
P.S - Arawon - I heard that same load of tripe with Vanguard, i just do not Believe it at all.
the amount of doom preachers is truly amazing. The article clearly says that SOE will only do the publishing, marketing, things like that.
Comparing it to Vanguard is absolutely pointless. Vanguard was taken over by SOE because it bombed and ran out of funds. This was actually a good thing, if SOE didn't take it over, then Vanguard would have been shut down. PotBS clearly says that they have enough funds, and even if it bombs and SOE has to take it over, then thats always much better then having the game shut down.
This is one argument, but I'm sure for the most part a lot of us will no longer do business with any other company that SOE is involved with. Not because they might by some slim chance change the game, ala-SWG-NGE-combat Upgrade, but that very fact that SOE is involved. Most of us who hate SOE will never again give money directly or indirectly to SOE.
I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
the amount of doom preachers is truly amazing. The article clearly says that SOE will only do the publishing, marketing, things like that.
Comparing it to Vanguard is absolutely pointless. Vanguard was taken over by SOE because it bombed and ran out of funds. This was actually a good thing, if SOE didn't take it over, then Vanguard would have been shut down. PotBS clearly says that they have enough funds, and even if it bombs and SOE has to take it over, then thats always much better then having the game shut down.
This is one argument, but I'm sure for the most part a lot of us will no longer do business with any other company that SOE is involved with. Not because they might by some slim chance change the game, ala-SWG-NGE-combat Upgrade, but that very fact that SOE is involved. Most of us who hate SOE will never again give money directly or indirectly to SOE.
Good on you and people like you, stick to ya principles no matter how good a game it is, don't play cause you hate SOE.
While I really didn't like what SOE did to SWG, but it ain't gonna stop me from playing any other game they're attached to, because so far IMHO SWG is the only one they royally screwed.
I'll be give PotBS a shoot no matter who is publishing it and judge it on it's own merits.
Devalon- folks like you make me laugh too if its any consequence...
If youll go back and read both of my posts its very clear I placed much of the blame on the developers of Vanguard- but lets face it- games go to SOE to fall off the map before their painful death. I have true sympathy for people that subscribe to the scam that is the station pass to play one of like 8 bad or outdated MMO's- SOE is a shady company in general that makes poor game decisions- game design or not, and I wouldnt want my game associated with their bad press, reputation, and development decisions. Period.
Call me pissed about Vanguard, etc.-whatever makes you feel good bro- truth is I got over it a long time ago, but Im glad I learned my lessons- from SWG, EQ2, all the way up to SOE's takeover of Sigil....That all sets a pretty good precendent for games under the SOE flag...But I guess folks like you will keep on ignoring their past and continue to give your money to a poorly managed company.
I just hope none of you show your face in here again when SOE acquires this license or somehow starts to assist with some content development, patches, game maintenance or support, etc. - because I will have my flamethrower stocked full of "I told you so" waiting...
Anyone saying SOE can't touch the game, or SOE is just publishing should go read the archived Vanguard folders. It might be easier for you to just copy and paste the official party line from over there. You will have to dig a bit to find the posts... for some reason people quit saying that stuff a few months ago. I don't know who to feel most sorry for... the small-time developers sony gobbles up, or sony for their ever-increasing portfolio of lackluster, B-list titles.
Get your facts right. SOE didn't gobble up VG, Brad sold out Sigil because they ran out of money and the VG was going way in the red with its almost non-existant play base. No 25k and less subscribers can not keep a 30 million dollar game and company going realistically. VG was always a lackluster B-list title SOE didn't make it that way. What PoTBS will be is up to the Developers of the game not who does the billing.
Everyone that is angry about this are people who hate how they changed SWG. Sony is only handling the business aspects and not the development..calm down kids.
Some of you guys are having a diffcult time understanding the business and marketing aspects of this deal, so I'll put it to you in very uneducated terms....
If you started your own lawn care business, would you let another lawn care company publish and pass out your business cards, market your services, etc. when its known for destroying landscaping, turning green grass into brown, and blowing the freshly cut grass all over your neighbors porch?
The point most of us are trying to make is that its a horrible business decision- especially in light of what recently happened....Its making a lot of folks scratch their head.
Its a bad business decision if nothing else- which questions the intelligence level of the PotBS creators overall.
lol @ all you "ZOMG I HATE SOE BLEARRRGGHHH!!!!" Want some cheese with your whine?
What the hell do you care who does the advertising for the game?
I'll be playing PotBS. I never played SWG, but plenty of people told me it sucked even before the NGE.
Vanguard? Could've been good, but they released too soon, and it was too much of the same old elves and dwarves and dragons crap. Why did they release too soon?
Everquest II? Yeah, sucked for the first 9 months or so, but it's probably the best PvE MMO on the market right now. See it's consistently high ratings on this site.
All this SOE hating is a bit absurd. It's like saying "That new Scorcese flick is being released by Paramount!!! hate hate hate!! I don't care how good it is, I'll never see it cause it's Paramount!"
Take a chill pill, play the open beta, and if you like it, buy the game.
Hehe...many of you are only giving examples of SWG and Sigil/Vanguard...Do you honestly think those are SOE's only screw ups? DO some research folks, theres a long list.....
I think this is a great move on Flying Labs part. This opens up the door for the game to be alot more sucessfull.
As far has the Vanguard crap that happen. Sony had nothing to do with that train wreck. That was all Sigil and Brad. Vanguard promised the moon and the stars and then some.
Over all I am excited that I get to play POTBS for no more money per month.
Well, personally I hate SOE for what happened to SWG, but I believe that POTBS is in a different situation. Let's hope that SOE truly will have zero say in anything....
So this is somewhat a good news... At least now I know POTBS is coming out in a few month....
Some of you guys are having a diffcult time understanding the business and marketing aspects of this deal, so I'll put it to you in very uneducated terms.... If you started your own lawn care business, would you let another lawn care company publish and pass out your business cards, market your services, etc. when its known for destroying landscaping, turning green grass into brown, and blowing the freshly cut grass all over your neighbors porch?
The point most of us are trying to make is that its a horrible business decision- especially in light of what recently happened....Its making a lot of folks scratch their head. Its a bad business decision if nothing else- which questions the intelligence level of the PotBS creators overall. Do some of you understand this now?
SOE are on record as being poor managers of other MMORPG's... maybe they've learn... they're poor service is their poor and often misleading communication to their player base. There is no denying that; even if you do enjoy their game offering you have to admit these are two things that they could do better. This is something to be concerned over, being sad is a bit much.
heres the most important part for you SOE haters Won’t Sony end up buying you out the way they did Vanguard?
The difficulties Sigil had with Vanguard have been pretty well publicized at this point. We’re in a very different situation financially and have no fear of shutting down. A lot of independent studios have just enough money to shove the game out the door and then go bankrupt if they don’t have their next project already financed. We are very, very fortunate to not be in that situation. We’re self-financed and beholden to no one. Flying Lab is in good shape. We made this decision because we wanted to, not because we had to. I hate SOE and I will never play your game.
That’s okay. I’m sure there will be people who play our game and then hate it anyway. We can’t make everyone happy but I can make you this promise: if Pirates isn’t good, if you don’t like how the game is designed, or how the servers are operated, or how we interact with our community, it’ll be our fault, not SOE’s. We own the game and the buck stops here. link is here
SOE is doing your billing though...
These are all almost word for word what Brad McQuaid had to say about their partnering with SOE. Especially the part in yellow, I think thats straight from Brad's posts defending the move to SOE. However, at release Vanguard was an SOE game, not a Sony Platform Publishing game. Sounds like they have the same deal as Perpetual with Gods and Heroes: Rome Rising time will tell.
Everyone that is angry about this are people who hate how they changed SWG. Sony is only handling the business aspects and not the development..calm down kids.
Sorry but i never played SWG at all, i did however dable with EQ1 and EQ2 and Vanguard. I posted why i started to hate SoE with EQ1 and the problem i had. Even though EQ2 has started to improve, its like 2yrs too late (has taken way too long, and probably will get ballsed up again anyways), LMAO with Vanguard, it was SoE that pushed, it was SOE that had complete control, IT WAS SOE that crapped on everybody that took this game.
Do you really think that last one will calm down with it being so fresh in everyones minds that touched it, that for me was STRIKE 3 with an SoE title. The only way to get me to purchase anything that has an SOE (Sony Online EnterPAINment) tag on its box would be to give us a free downloadable 7-14 days free trial (because i doubt many will get to have a stress test/open beta) look at the game before release, other than that people would have to say its not bad/good and would have to top 70% of this to sway people who know whether to purchase it or not. If it is below that 70%, then i dont think alot of gamers would purchase it, simply because we have been done over several times before and dont want to be done over again.
After looking on the Potbs website i found this -
1) We keep complete ownership of Pirates of the Burning Sea.
2) We have no interference from SOE on the development/ideas of the game.
3) Because we financed Pirates ourselves, we keep most of the revenues so we stay strong and independent.
4) The contract they gave us actually says what we agreed to verbally.
Numbers 3 and 4 i don't know about, but numbers 1 and 2 are what worry me. Why, because we heard/read that same crock of BS with Vanguard, thats why i am dubious about this and its probably also why many others feel the same way too. But as always, only time will tell, and if it goes the same way as VG did, then you may start to think along the same lines as everyone else that has had the same experiance (some several times over).
Bad move. Really bad move. All Station Pass games are Sony controlled. Do you really think Gods and Heroes and PotBS will fair differently down the road? Both games will be acquired by Sony sooner or later.
Comments
I must say I am truely impressed by the number of companies sacrificing their playerbase and bottom line before they even launch.
Signing with a company that so many associate with "satan", low quality, and bad buissness practices smacks of a tight financial situation. The only real question I have is not if soe is going to buy this game out but when??
Yep, it's just like the Vangurd days before the truth finally hit. So, keep on believing that 'til the end.
FLS have said many, many times that they are in excellent financial shape. I saw no evidence that would cause me to doubt that. Take it for what its worth.
Big difference between POTBS and Vanguard, one was done and ready to be published the other was a Beta product forced to release well before it's time.
If we believe what the devs have been saying at their site this game is in great shape, they've taken the time while they've been waiting to work out a publisher to polish the content in the game getting a 1000 missions per nationality. They arent sitting with a game that is no where near ready to play hoping it'll catch on enough to last while they work the bugs out. Sigil admitted straight up that Vanguard was released early. They lied in saying it was only a few months early rather than 6 months to a year.
Actually, it does mean that you should hold all companies that continue to do business with SOE accountable. Anytime a business partnership happens, there are PR consequences. Lots of people won't buy PotBS simply because they are partnered with SOE now. FLS knew that when they made the contract decision. They're hoping people will give them a chance and others simply won't care.. no, they're banking on that actually.
I won't even mention this game to my SOE hating friends now. I tried to explain to them that Vanguard was only being published by SOE, they had nothing to do with the actual game itself. My friends wouldn't hear of it. When SOE purchased Vanguard/Sigil, although I certainly couldn't see it coming, it happened and it looked like they (my friends) were right and I was the fool. C'est la vie.
Like I said, to me, this is not a big deal. But to say that you should expect anything different than from what happened with Vanguard would be, well, shame on you. Expect the worst, hope for the best.
so...
Yep, it's just like the Vangurd days before the truth finally hit. So, keep on believing that 'til the end.
I'm not aware of what Sigil's situation was, but FLS still has the financial security to release the game without a publisher - In fact, they just hired more employees! They only want to have the game successfully localized, advertised, and sold in retail stores. If they didn't sign a contract with a publisher, the game would have been available for download online.
the amount of doom preachers is truly amazing. The article clearly says that SOE will only do the publishing, marketing, things like that.
Comparing it to Vanguard is absolutely pointless. Vanguard was taken over by SOE because it bombed and ran out of funds. This was actually a good thing, if SOE didn't take it over, then Vanguard would have been shut down. PotBS clearly says that they have enough funds, and even if it bombs and SOE has to take it over, then thats always much better then having the game shut down.
Say it aint so, say it aint so.
If Potbs has teh SoE tag next to its name then i will be holdign off on getting this game for at least a month or 2. If reports about the game are not above 70% good, then i wont be purchasing it period!
Why, because every single game that has had the SoE tag has been ball'ed up completly. Vanguard was said to only have SoE as its distributer at first, then joint, b ut no control (load of BS), you could tell after 3 days SoE were pulling the strings for VG (many though couldnt see that and said sigil had control), now after SoE takes over completly those VG diehard fans were wrong. I aint going to waste money and have the same crap pulled on me again.
Thats now 2 games (gods and heroes-rome rising, and Pirates of teh burning sea) that have the SoE tag next to their names and both will go to teh bottom of my 4 game list, only leaves Warhammer online (alias W.A.R) and Age of Conan left. As i already mentioned any SoE title will be at least 1-2 months runnign BEFORE i purchase it unless you get to see how the game is and how it runs in a last part beta stage (server stress test) or free first 7 days to view the gameplay, then you will know if its buggy, crash's or whatever.
P.S - Arawon - I heard that same load of tripe with Vanguard, i just do not Believe it at all.
This is one argument, but I'm sure for the most part a lot of us will no longer do business with any other company that SOE is involved with. Not because they might by some slim chance change the game, ala-SWG-NGE-combat Upgrade, but that very fact that SOE is involved. Most of us who hate SOE will never again give money directly or indirectly to SOE.
I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
This is one argument, but I'm sure for the most part a lot of us will no longer do business with any other company that SOE is involved with. Not because they might by some slim chance change the game, ala-SWG-NGE-combat Upgrade, but that very fact that SOE is involved. Most of us who hate SOE will never again give money directly or indirectly to SOE.
Good on you and people like you, stick to ya principles no matter how good a game it is, don't play cause you hate SOE.While I really didn't like what SOE did to SWG, but it ain't gonna stop me from playing any other game they're attached to, because so far IMHO SWG is the only one they royally screwed.
I'll be give PotBS a shoot no matter who is publishing it and judge it on it's own merits.
Devalon- folks like you make me laugh too if its any consequence...
If youll go back and read both of my posts its very clear I placed much of the blame on the developers of Vanguard- but lets face it- games go to SOE to fall off the map before their painful death. I have true sympathy for people that subscribe to the scam that is the station pass to play one of like 8 bad or outdated MMO's- SOE is a shady company in general that makes poor game decisions- game design or not, and I wouldnt want my game associated with their bad press, reputation, and development decisions. Period.
Call me pissed about Vanguard, etc.-whatever makes you feel good bro- truth is I got over it a long time ago, but Im glad I learned my lessons- from SWG, EQ2, all the way up to SOE's takeover of Sigil....That all sets a pretty good precendent for games under the SOE flag...But I guess folks like you will keep on ignoring their past and continue to give your money to a poorly managed company.
I just hope none of you show your face in here again when SOE acquires this license or somehow starts to assist with some content development, patches, game maintenance or support, etc. - because I will have my flamethrower stocked full of "I told you so" waiting...
Get your facts right. SOE didn't gobble up VG, Brad sold out Sigil because they ran out of money and the VG was going way in the red with its almost non-existant play base. No 25k and less subscribers can not keep a 30 million dollar game and company going realistically. VG was always a lackluster B-list title SOE didn't make it that way. What PoTBS will be is up to the Developers of the game not who does the billing.
Everyone that is angry about this are people who hate how they changed SWG. Sony is only handling the business aspects and not the development..calm down kids.
Some of you guys are having a diffcult time understanding the business and marketing aspects of this deal, so I'll put it to you in very uneducated terms....
If you started your own lawn care business, would you let another lawn care company publish and pass out your business cards, market your services, etc. when its known for destroying landscaping, turning green grass into brown, and blowing the freshly cut grass all over your neighbors porch?
The point most of us are trying to make is that its a horrible business decision- especially in light of what recently happened....Its making a lot of folks scratch their head.
Its a bad business decision if nothing else- which questions the intelligence level of the PotBS creators overall.
Do some of you understand this now?
lol @ all you "ZOMG I HATE SOE BLEARRRGGHHH!!!!" Want some cheese with your whine?
What the hell do you care who does the advertising for the game?
I'll be playing PotBS. I never played SWG, but plenty of people told me it sucked even before the NGE.
Vanguard? Could've been good, but they released too soon, and it was too much of the same old elves and dwarves and dragons crap. Why did they release too soon?
Everquest II? Yeah, sucked for the first 9 months or so, but it's probably the best PvE MMO on the market right now. See it's consistently high ratings on this site.
All this SOE hating is a bit absurd. It's like saying "That new Scorcese flick is being released by Paramount!!! hate hate hate!! I don't care how good it is, I'll never see it cause it's Paramount!"
Take a chill pill, play the open beta, and if you like it, buy the game.
"OMFG SOE WILL BE HANDLING BILLING!!! I"LL NEVER PLAY!!
"
Get a clue.
Don't let the door hit you too hard on the way out, Only one that loses is you.
Hehe...many of you are only giving examples of SWG and Sigil/Vanguard...Do you honestly think those are SOE's only screw ups? DO some research folks, theres a long list.....
I think this is a great move on Flying Labs part. This opens up the door for the game to be alot more sucessfull.
As far has the Vanguard crap that happen. Sony had nothing to do with that train wreck. That was all Sigil and Brad. Vanguard promised the moon and the stars and then some.
Over all I am excited that I get to play POTBS for no more money per month.
Hmm....
Well, personally I hate SOE for what happened to SWG, but I believe that POTBS is in a different situation. Let's hope that SOE truly will have zero say in anything....
So this is somewhat a good news... At least now I know POTBS is coming out in a few month....
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
QFT and QFE
SOE are on record as being poor managers of other MMORPG's... maybe they've learn... they're poor service is their poor and often misleading communication to their player base. There is no denying that; even if you do enjoy their game offering you have to admit these are two things that they could do better. This is something to be concerned over, being sad is a bit much.
Even though "I hate SOE" I will still play this game. Been looking forward to it for some time now. Just hope it doesn't end up like Vanguard did.
These are all almost word for word what Brad McQuaid had to say about their partnering with SOE. Especially the part in yellow, I think thats straight from Brad's posts defending the move to SOE. However, at release Vanguard was an SOE game, not a Sony Platform Publishing game. Sounds like they have the same deal as Perpetual with Gods and Heroes: Rome Rising time will tell.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Do you really think that last one will calm down with it being so fresh in everyones minds that touched it, that for me was STRIKE 3 with an SoE title. The only way to get me to purchase anything that has an SOE (Sony Online EnterPAINment) tag on its box would be to give us a free downloadable 7-14 days free trial (because i doubt many will get to have a stress test/open beta) look at the game before release, other than that people would have to say its not bad/good and would have to top 70% of this to sway people who know whether to purchase it or not. If it is below that 70%, then i dont think alot of gamers would purchase it, simply because we have been done over several times before and dont want to be done over again.
After looking on the Potbs website i found this -
1) We keep complete ownership of Pirates of the Burning Sea.
2) We have no interference from SOE on the development/ideas of the game.
3) Because we financed Pirates ourselves, we keep most of the revenues so we stay strong and independent.
4) The contract they gave us actually says what we agreed to verbally.
Numbers 3 and 4 i don't know about, but numbers 1 and 2 are what worry me. Why, because we heard/read that same crock of BS with Vanguard, thats why i am dubious about this and its probably also why many others feel the same way too. But as always, only time will tell, and if it goes the same way as VG did, then you may start to think along the same lines as everyone else that has had the same experiance (some several times over).
Bad move. Really bad move. All Station Pass games are Sony controlled. Do you really think Gods and Heroes and PotBS will fair differently down the road? Both games will be acquired by Sony sooner or later.
Really bad move.