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SOE/FLS related: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly...
Xanamiar
Member Posts: 16
The Good: The smaller game companies that put their heart and soul into a game that they love.
The Bad: The large monstorous gamming companies that devour everything in their path.
The Ugly: The user base of games that downgrade a game for a decision that hasn't been tried out.
The simple fact is Flying Labs has made a decision in order to get the game out on the market in a time slot that they could live with. It's difficult to publish a game when you are not already set up for it. You have to work out deals with all the stores Nation, and World wide in order for them to carry your game. You would also have to either buy or make a facility to make the CD's and manuals. So their best decision was to find a company that would deal with them. That's right DEAL with them.. Not to take the game away from them.
Flying Labs has done something that no other game maker has tried to do. Keep control of their game, and of their community, with regards of getting the game out to the masses as fast as possible. They built the game on their own dime, and yet because the only company that they could do business with is SOE, people want to burn them down to the ground.
I don't like SOE... But it's because of what they did with SWG, and honestly their customer service isn't very good. Flying Labs has made a deal that takes care of both of these problems.
If SOE can take the time and effort to put out a GREAT game made by a wonderful little company, then the gamers of the world should really pay attention to the game, not the publisher. Since the creators of the game will not let it go to a big company, I don't think anyone will have anything to worry about.
As far as the Ugly comment, I meant it.. The people who can't see the positives of such a wonderful deal for Flying Labs, and only see that SOE is going to be publishing it, your attitude is ugly, get over the fact that SOE has messed up in the past... Because as far as getting games out to the masses they are good at it. And as far as customer service Flying Labs has been marvelous at it. If you don't believe me, come on over to the forums at http://www.burningsea.com and see for yourself.
Comments
I could not agree with you more. The worst part about all this is those people who are letting their disdain for SOE affect their views on this recent development. This looks like a nice deal for Flying Labs, as the OP said, and we should just wait and see rather than make assumptions.
Past: AC, AC2, DAoC, SWG, HZ, EVE, Ryzom, WoW, L2
Present: nothing
Future: Aion, AoC, PotBS
You know what, don't even worry about the mentally disturbed soe hater's, i mean its fine to dislike a company but when you become fanatical about it like alot around here, they probably aren't people you would want to game with anyway.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Yes, publishing, marketing and all things related are a specialisation on their own, people who can make good games aren't neccesarily good at marketing, and vice versa. As long Flying Labs does the game development and SOE the publishing things go well and it works just fine. Whenever SOE wants to gain (more) control over game development and/or game changes that's when thigns go south a bit.
Here's to hoping that SOE keeps his hands off the game and just does the publishing part.
I (re)opened my SWG account recently and I can say this about their customer support... I've put in a few tickets and all have been answered quickly. I also screwed up with a veteran reward (which was one character only - no trade) and they moved the item to another character for me. I mean, I screwed up and they fixed my issue. That's grade "A" customer service IMO.
So yeah, SOE screwed up SWG. They basically killed their subscriptions and realize they made a huge mistake. Yeah, they apologized but they really can't go back. And there may be more to this than SOE since LA is involved. Who knows? And at this point, who really cares. Like Rafiki said, it's in the past, it doesn't matter. Time to get over it.
If you really want to cut off all games that have something to do with SOE because of a mistake that cost them a lot more than it cost you, it's your decision.
As for the Sigil/Vanguard thing, it sounds like (from previews of the product) PotBS is already a game that's closer to release than Vanguard was on release day. IMO, Vanguard failed on launch because they delivered a VERY beta product. So there were problems with that game and quite frankly, if SOE wouldn't have bought Sigil, the game would have died.
so...
That's a bit harsh. I try to live by certain principles, one of those being, I don't give business to companies/corporations/stores that I personally feel are, lets say, unworthy. I don't buy from Wal-Mart, even though they are cheaper then everyone else. I won't buy anyone a diamond, even though I can't tell if it came from a country in civil unrest. I'm not looking to bring those companies down, and I'm not looking to be some hero or martyr, and I don't pretend that individuals have such far reaching power. But, to be able to look oneself in the mirror, and know that you live with some principles, is important to me....and one I hope to teach my son as well.
So please, don't start another terrible discussion about this news by labeling people with unfair words. I wish you, the other future players, and the FLS team all the best with the game. I sincerely hope its a good one. Now, couldn't you just wish something similar for those that are painfully leaving a game they were looking forward to, because of their personal beliefs and ideals.
We can make this a nice place folks....it just takes a little more effort.
That's fine and all but they come running and screaming into so many threads that it really gets annoying.
Just remember this, everything being said by FL was said by Sigil.
And now us 'fanatics' get to use the fantastic phrase 'I told you so!"
I got dollars to donuts you'll here the same phrase
VolatileMan
I'd take that bet, because I've gotten to know the devs over at Flying Labs... One, they dont' lie to us. Two, They have done all the work out of their own pocket, whereas sigil borrowed to make the game.
get to know the people you are speaking bad about, before you speak. I don't have the slightest idea who sigil is/was... I know that SOE did the Vanguard customers a favor by taking over the game instead of letting it burn out...
Get to know Flying Labs, and you'll see that there is no comparison to Sigil.
That's a bit harsh. I try to live by certain principles, one of those being, I don't give business to companies/corporations/stores that I personally feel are, lets say, unworthy. I don't buy from Wal-Mart, even though they are cheaper then everyone else. I won't buy anyone a diamond, even though I can't tell if it came from a country in civil unrest. I'm not looking to bring those companies down, and I'm not looking to be some hero or martyr, and I don't pretend that individuals have such far reaching power. But, to be able to look oneself in the mirror, and know that you live with some principles, is important to me....and one I hope to teach my son as well.
So please, don't start another terrible discussion about this news by labeling people with unfair words. I wish you, the other future players, and the FLS team all the best with the game. I sincerely hope its a good one. Now, couldn't you just wish something similar for those that are painfully leaving a game they were looking forward to, because of their personal beliefs and ideals.
We can make this a nice place folks....it just takes a little more effort.
I fully agree. Some poeple live by certain principles, that at times might hurt them more than not having principles, But at the end of the day, they want to be able look themselves in the mirror without shame. That is no reason to start calling them names and insulting them.
You might think you stand on the higher ground and have reason to abuse others. It says more about you... than them.
___________________________________________________
Anatomy of a Fanboi
This is you.
It's not insulting anyone who is reasonable... it's insulting those who have no reasoning in them.. Considering the fact that his post was very reasonable as far as why he's not willing to pay SOE, he is obviously reasoning it out.. however I stand by my comments... Those who are not reasonable show that they are ugly when it comes down to their decisions.
And I don't stoop low enough to call names of others.. I said that the attitude is ugly... and it is.
Yes but Sigil borrowed money from SOE and FLS don't need to because they have money off the other games they made, hehe.
POTBS username:yohorumrunner
Guild:St George Squadron
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
However, I'm still going to try the game. I want this game to succeed. Indeed, this is actually part of my future column I'm going to write about exactly this. Me, of all people, saying give SOE a chance. (My first editorial on this site was wildly critical of Sony.)
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Really? I thought they just liked cakes and pies.
POTBS username:yohorumrunner
Guild:St George Squadron
There are plenty of game publishers in the world. Saying that there was no other choice but SOE is being a rather appologetic to say the least. NC soft for one is a great example of what you are over looking.
As for being ugly, well some are and I fall into that area myself sometimes. However, no one should ever just "get over" things that they have had bad relations with in the past. Perhaps if SOE has PROVEN they have changed their ways by releasing a clean launch on their own or something to that effect then it would be ok. Otherwise there is no logical reason to just get over it other than turning a blind eye to an unresolver problem.
Where did they "appologize" for SWG? I saw smed say it was a mistake, but nothing in the way of sorry to our paying customers. Also the problems go well beyond SWG, that just happens to be the epic example of mistreatment.
Time will tell how wonderful this deal is for flying labs game, but history is against it.
/nods
Totally agree with the OP, they seem to have got it right and done things on their terms, how can they lose....
The big difference here is that Sigil was dropped by Microsoft before hand which didn't bode well for the product. It's too bad that they ran out of money because with an extra 6 months they may have had a very different launch...
Anyhow.. FLS was supposedly ready to launch in June. Instead they pushed it back a few months to explore other publishing opportunities (as opposed to self publishing via digital download). I'm sure the game will have bugs... but I think it's a very different situation from what VG experienced.
Hey.. everyone is entitled to vote with their money. SOE is just another company... just like FLS.. just like Toyota, Ford etc. If I don't like Ford I won't buy their cars. It's the same situation with SOE. You don't like them... don't patronize them. Some folks take it a bit far though and it's kind of like standing outside the Ford dealership protesting 24/7...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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Really? I thought they just liked cakes and pies.
Oh, they're not picky. I regularly bring in banana bread, cookies, brownies, whatever. Free food doesn't last long around here, we've got a floor full of starving artists...Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
I personally am very happy that FLS got this deal. I hate SOE almost as much as EA, but the deal FLS got which allows them to keep control of their game is something I can very much live with. I think too many people who have voiced complaints have not read the details.
No one else feels a bit for Perpetual Entertainment then
<< 2 spots above PofBS; Gods and Heroes
I think its a very good agreement. SOE has recognized a solid game, that clearly has deep enough pockets to make the game. Lets be honest, SOE is a giant and if Flying Labs did not have the money to back themselves regarding content and control SOE would have negotiated for stronger terms on the agreement.
I am not worried that SOE is involved, the contract does not put them in control. They just market and distribute.
People seem to think the only disdain for SOE stems from SWG purely... this is not the case for all of us. I had several issues with EQ I, and piss poor customer service drove me away. They're name attached anywhere to a product, whether they simply handle the gem covers for the disks or have their hand in the development is enough for me to be wary.
So I will treat this like I do any other MMO game and wait for all the monkeys to test the waters, then after I read how crappy/wonderful it is I will decide to buy it.
They did not say it was their only choice, they said it was their best choice. We do not know who they turned down and why. But they did say what most publishers wanted and that some would not put in their contract what they agreed to verbally. We do not know for sure but who knows if NCSoft wanted to own the IP if they published it?
It was standard practice by NCSoft to acquire the IP from the developer, as of 2005. Maybe in the last two years, this has changed, but considering I have not read any Press Releases from then to now in regards to change of policies with developers; I would still say it is the same.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
They did not say it was their only choice, they said it was their best choice. We do not know who they turned down and why. But they did say what most publishers wanted and that some would not put in their contract what they agreed to verbally. We do not know for sure but who knows if NCSoft wanted to own the IP if they published it?
The original poster said this"They built the game on their own dime, and yet because the only company that they could do business with is SOE, people want to burn them down to the ground."
My point was that SOE wasn't somehow the only company they could possibly deal with. It was a choice. My example of NC soft was just picking a company that looks to publish games for indi companies.