Hexxeity, you sir, put it more eloqently than I ever could. Well done, I bow to you
he writes a great post I agree. but economic bloat also occurs when people have no job and they sit there and play all day. this is why the old WoW honor system failed cause ppl with free time on their hands made life suck for the rest of us by making the 'top end' too high to hit (made high warlord to high).
I have no idea how to solve economic bloat without extreme measures. in starport they go all the way- straight up permadeath for all at some point whether you want it or not (well on the rebang servers I play on).
so yeah permadeath is one way but no way mainstream will accept permadeath? That's just something us rare hardcores get our kicks on lol. I like to see the universe get ripped apart and reborn and see ev1 start all over together. makes us all equal and fair
<sorry maybe I'm off topic but I fail to see how an asian farmer is any different from players that play 24/7 they all ruin economy surely?>
How gold farming hurts the game When a person subscribes to an MMOG, he agrees to adhere to certain rules, and in return he has certain expectations from the game. For many players, those expectations include the notion that all players will be on equal footing within the parameters of the game. One expects to have roughly the same opportunity for advancement as any other player, with only time, effort, and skill as the limiting factors. Trading gold and items for real-world cash completely breaks that covenant. No longer are time, effort, and skill the determiners of in-game opportunity. Now real-world money is not just a factor, but potentially the biggest factor of them all.
This argument is inconsequential. It's apples to oranges. The basis for this argument is if it is right for a player, a moral decision, or if it is wrong. The so-called plight of farmers means nothing. The "agreement" (hardly a covenant) between a dev and a player means nothing.
its not the gold farmers that are a problem is the losers that buy gold off em. WoW was full of em. found tonnes of low lvl players that had 1000g+. most of em are kiddies that want the best gear. it completely stuffed up WoW's economy (i blame the gold buyers not the farmers) to stop this you have to stop the retards from buying the gold not the farmers farming the gold.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I have read enough. This is simple. Selling gold in a game IS against the law. For all those who say it's the games own fault...quit playing the game then. If you support gold selling to get the uber gear then in reality you are just sad. I play a MMO for a few hours a week and though I try for the best gear it does not keep me awake at night worring about it. If it bothers you so much that you have to buy gold and support a business that survives by being basically a parasite of MMOs then you need to re-think some life choices.
If I offended anyone with this post then you are probably wrong in your views anyway. j/k
Kings and Sons of God Travel on their way from here Calming restless mobs Easing all of their, all of their fear Strange times are here.
I've never purchased gold but if people consider it cheating than I consider being able to play longer than me or having better items than me cheating. It's all about fairness right? People need to get off their high horses. You spend more time in the game while someone who buys gold probably spends more time at work and they use their real world money to get the virtual items you're able to get because you have nothing else to do but farm farm farm. Those against gold farming cry how it's cheating and how it isn't fair yet it's the exact opposite. The person who spends more hours away from the game can purchase items and be on equal footing with those who spend all their time farming and that just pisses off the people farming because they no longer have an advantage. Being on equal footing is fair, no?
LMAO!
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.
As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
... And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Thank you dcb, glad someone else said what I was thinking.
I never accepted gold farming in any game, never have, never will.
It’s cheating pure and simple, and I’m simply amazed at how many excuses people come up with to try to justify it.
However, it’s just goes with the common mentality of today’s world. Cheating is the norm, and if you aren’t trying to skirt the system in some way, you’re doing something wrong and considered “old-school” (whatever the hell that means), or out of it.
The whole “we’re just trying to catch up” argument, wears really thin.
Let’s say I play in Darts tournaments, and I practice at the game 6 hours a day, and you practice at the game 2 hours a day. You see me somehow as “cheating”, and you need to use your money to “catch up” to me, which by the way, is never the case, because the gold buyers always seem to have a ton more than anyone would get through regular play. Anyway, when it comes time to play in the tournament against each other, we each are given 5 darts to throw, however, you see it proper to pay someone to give you 3 extra darts to throw at the board. So I have 5 darts, you have 8 darts, and all because you feel I’ve practiced more than you did and feel deprived in some way.
Well, like I said, many of you feel this is perfectly normal, and with today’s line of thinking, sadly, you may be correct.
As a side note, the in-game gold advertisement from these idiots completely destroys the mood of the game for me. They should all be drawn and quartered…but I digress.
Let's say you're playing in that same dart tournament and you still have that same amount of practice compared to me. Now let's say we tie because I was able to purchase better darts than the crappy crooked ones you have so it makes up for my lack of practice time. Is that cheating? Using your analogy as it would pertain to mmo's I would be paying money to have 3 extra levels over what the game allows.
I have read enough. This is simple. Selling gold in a game IS against the law.
No, it's not. Are you honestly that stupid?
Seriously though, what's with all the animosity against those who decide to buy or sell gold? Seriously? Is it jealousy? What of people who sell their accounts? Are they evil too because they want to make something of their time and dedication? Honestly, I dont understand the _why_.
time = money Some people have the time to grind endlessly to get all the uber gear possible... some people dont. Those that dont sometimes use this little equation, and convert their money into time. Why is that bad? Can someone answer honestly?
If people want gold farming to stop then devs need to create a game that doesn't facilitate this type of activity. Until then I will be paying cents on the hour I am saving by buying gold rather than grinding it.
since the op liked to compare RL cash and rules to virtual ones we can draw another paralell here.
does the op also suggest that the russian site that are selling mp3's(intellectual property of the music company and artist) should be able to sell the music without giving some to the original artist and music company?
bear in mind here that the US goverment is pushing hard to shut down the site and that company.
also bear in mind that blizzard for example owns all the gold in world of warcraft, it is their intellectual property.
does the op imply that it is ok to steal?
because that is essentially what it is, the improper and unlawful use of another persons intellectual property.
since the op liked to compare RL cash and rules to virtual ones we can draw another paralell here.
does the op also suggest that the russian site that are selling mp3's(intellectual property of the music company and artist) should be able to sell the music without giving some to the original artist and music company? bear in mind here that the US goverment is pushing hard to shut down the site and that company. also bear in mind that blizzard for example owns all the gold in world of warcraft, it is their intellectual property.
does the op imply that it is ok to steal? because that is essentially what it is, the improper and unlawful use of another persons intellectual property.
This is about the only anti-farming stance I can agree with. If Blizzard, or any other MMO company feels like there is copyright infringement on this supposedly billion dollar gold-selling operation why isn't anyone doing anything?
When a person subscribes to an MMOG, he agrees to adhere to certain rules, and in return he has certain expectations from the game.
For many players, those expectations include the notion that all players will be on equal footing within the parameters of the game. One expects to have roughly the same opportunity for advancement as any other player, with only time, effort, and skill as the limiting factors.
Trading gold and items for real-world cash completely breaks that covenant. No longer are time, effort, and skill the determiners of in-game opportunity. Now real-world money is not just a factor, but potentially the biggest factor of them all.
This argument is inconsequential. It's apples to oranges. The basis for this argument is if it is right for a player, a moral decision, or if it is wrong. The so-called plight of farmers means nothing. The "agreement" (hardly a covenant) between a dev and a player means nothing.
You are wrong. The EULA is an agreement to follow the guidelines of the game.
You are condoning lying and disregarding the wishes of the majority who specifically choose MMOGs with anti RMT stances just to satisfy your selfish wants. Go play a game that allows RMT trades if that's what you desire.
I have read enough. This is simple. Selling gold in a game IS against the law. For all those who say it's the games own fault...quit playing the game then. If you support gold selling to get the uber gear then in reality you are just sad. I play a MMO for a few hours a week and though I try for the best gear it does not keep me awake at night worring about it. If it bothers you so much that you have to buy gold and support a business that survives by being basically a parasite of MMOs then you need to re-think some life choices. If I offended anyone with this post then you are probably wrong in your views anyway. j/k
Which is more sad? Someone that has extra money to burn and decides to spend it on his hobby or some 20 something with no job sitting on their backside mooching off their parents playing a video game 12-20 hours a day?
I have read enough. This is simple. Selling gold in a game IS against the law. For all those who say it's the games own fault...quit playing the game then. If you support gold selling to get the uber gear then in reality you are just sad. I play a MMO for a few hours a week and though I try for the best gear it does not keep me awake at night worring about it. If it bothers you so much that you have to buy gold and support a business that survives by being basically a parasite of MMOs then you need to re-think some life choices. If I offended anyone with this post then you are probably wrong in your views anyway. j/k
Which is more sad? Someone that has extra money to burn and decides to spend it on his hobby or some 20 something with no job sitting on their backside mooching off their parents playing a video game 12-20 hours a day?
Someone who mooches off their parents playing a video game 12- 20 hours a day and spends their parents money on RMT.
I have read enough. This is simple. Selling gold in a game IS against the law. For all those who say it's the games own fault...quit playing the game then. If you support gold selling to get the uber gear then in reality you are just sad. I play a MMO for a few hours a week and though I try for the best gear it does not keep me awake at night worring about it. If it bothers you so much that you have to buy gold and support a business that survives by being basically a parasite of MMOs then you need to re-think some life choices. If I offended anyone with this post then you are probably wrong in your views anyway. j/k
Which is more sad? Someone that has extra money to burn and decides to spend it on his hobby or some 20 something with no job sitting on their backside mooching off their parents playing a video game 12-20 hours a day?
Someone who mooches off their parents playing a video game 12- 20 hours a day and spends their parents money on RMT.
Ok now that truly would be the most pathetic thing I have ever heard of roflmao.
The article has it wrong. Its not against the rules to get dsl or to take your clothes to a laundromat. It is against the rules in most mmos to farm for gold. I do think that those that support gold farming in a game that is against it should be held just as accountable as the farmers. Ultimately its up to the game to handle the problem.
I've never purchased gold but if people consider it cheating than I consider being able to play longer than me or having better items than me cheating. It's all about fairness right? People need to get off their high horses. You spend more time in the game while someone who buys gold probably spends more time at work and they use their real world money to get the virtual items you're able to get because you have nothing else to do but farm farm farm. Those against gold farming cry how it's cheating and how it isn't fair yet it's the exact opposite. The person who spends more hours away from the game can purchase items and be on equal footing with those who spend all their time farming and that just pisses off the people farming because they no longer have an advantage. Being on equal footing is fair, no?
LMAO!
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.
As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
I've never purchased gold but if people consider it cheating than I consider being able to play longer than me or having better items than me cheating. It's all about fairness right? People need to get off their high horses. You spend more time in the game while someone who buys gold probably spends more time at work and they use their real world money to get the virtual items you're able to get because you have nothing else to do but farm farm farm. Those against gold farming cry how it's cheating and how it isn't fair yet it's the exact opposite. The person who spends more hours away from the game can purchase items and be on equal footing with those who spend all their time farming and that just pisses off the people farming because they no longer have an advantage. Being on equal footing is fair, no?
LMAO!
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.
As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
It's also your choice if you choose to buy gold and risk the consequences from whomever the MMO developer is. You paying your monthly fees doesn't entitle you to dictate how other players should or shouldn't play the game. Let the developer do that.
I've never purchased gold but if people consider it cheating than I consider being able to play longer than me or having better items than me cheating. It's all about fairness right? People need to get off their high horses. You spend more time in the game while someone who buys gold probably spends more time at work and they use their real world money to get the virtual items you're able to get because you have nothing else to do but farm farm farm. Those against gold farming cry how it's cheating and how it isn't fair yet it's the exact opposite. The person who spends more hours away from the game can purchase items and be on equal footing with those who spend all their time farming and that just pisses off the people farming because they no longer have an advantage. Being on equal footing is fair, no?
LMAO!
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.
As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
It's also your choice if you choose to buy gold and risk the consequences from whomever the MMO developer is. You paying your monthly fees doesn't entitle you to dictate how other players should or shouldn't play the game. Let the developer do that.
Wrong. Since I am paying a fee for a product, and that product dictates an anti RMT stance, and part of why I choose that product is to play competitively in an anti RMT environment, then you better believe I am gonna take offense to someone using real world cash to destroy that possibility. You are now directly negatively impacting my fun and my investment of time and fees.
I've never purchased gold but if people consider it cheating than I consider being able to play longer than me or having better items than me cheating. It's all about fairness right? People need to get off their high horses. You spend more time in the game while someone who buys gold probably spends more time at work and they use their real world money to get the virtual items you're able to get because you have nothing else to do but farm farm farm. Those against gold farming cry how it's cheating and how it isn't fair yet it's the exact opposite. The person who spends more hours away from the game can purchase items and be on equal footing with those who spend all their time farming and that just pisses off the people farming because they no longer have an advantage. Being on equal footing is fair, no?
LMAO!
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.
As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
It's also your choice if you choose to buy gold and risk the consequences from whomever the MMO developer is. You paying your monthly fees doesn't entitle you to dictate how other players should or shouldn't play the game. Let the developer do that.
Wrong. Since I am paying a fee for a product, and that product dictates an anti RMT stance, and part of why I choose that product is to play competitively in an anti RMT environment, then you better believe I am gonna take offense to someone using real world cash to destroy that possibility. You are now directly negatively impacting my fun and my investment of time and fees.
Now you're confusing a monthly fee and owning stock in a company. If you're not having fun because someone bought gold it's not actually DIRECTLY having a negative impact on you. In fact you probably have no idea who does or doesn't buy gold you just get pissed whenever you get outbid on the auction house and automatically assume that the person must have purchased their gold.
Slipcarb, let me ask you something and I want you to be honest.
Why do you choose to play a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance, knowing that you will disregard and disrespect the wishes of both the developers and the majority of players, when you can choose to play a MMOG which supports RMT ?
RMT is supported in EQ2 station exchange, Roma Victor, Project Entropia, any of the Korean item shop games, and even Eve Online in a roundabout way.
I know the answer, but I want to see if you are capable of being honest.
Slipcarb, let me ask you something and I want you to be honest. Why do you choose to play a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance, knowing that you will disregard and disrespect the wishes of both the developers and the majority of players, when you can choose to play a MMOG which supports RMT ? RMT is supported in EQ2 station exchange, Roma Victor, Project Entropia, any of the Korean item shop games, and even Eve Online in a roundabout way. I know the answer, but I want to see if you are capable of being honest.
I play games that I enjoy. To enjoy a game I have to have fun going through the content. What you do or don't do doesn't ruin my enjoyment because I can still play the game as it was meant to be played. Is that the answer you knew I was gonna say? Also look at my first post, I don't buy gold. I'm not that much of a loot whore where I'd spend my real life cash on virtual items or cry when others do, but to each his or her own.
The reason people choose to violate the rules of games with anti RMT stances by buying gold and items is very simple. If you and others like you who support RMT, played games that support RMT, you would be like everyone else, no better or worse. You would be on an equal footing, but that's not what you and your ilk desire. You need to cheat in order to get unfair advantages so you can be ahead of everyone else who plays by the rules, and that is why you choose to play anti RMT MMOGs over RMT supported MMOGs.
Most gold farmers do not play legitimately and uses botting software and any cheats and hacks if they can get away with it.
Most farmers employs agressive tactics in their gold farming operations and competition of prime farming spots. I've experienced first hand on how some gold farmers are being excessively rude (some gold farmer in WoW were cussing me in chinese which I incidentally understands when I appeared at his farming spot). Failing to dissuade me from going away, he started to try and train mobs on me hoping that i would die to multiple adds. Of course this doesn't work in wow and he ended up dead coz he is stupid. Now if these stupid dollar-wielding idiots woud like to buy their virtual gold.. then that's their problem however the activities of gold farmers interrupts and degrades the efforts of legitimate players. I mean, I paid $15 bucks to have fun not to get my fun ruined by some poor smuck tthat they are being protrayed as (which isn't true at all) -- these "gold farmers" usually come from middle class families. How the hell do they learn how to use a computer and play games ? You wanna talk about poor in china? The REAL poor people in china are villagers living near the mountains near tibet (or near the hunan and hubei region) who has never even seen much less touch a god damn computer. As for people believing the media portrayal of gold farmers as being down trodden starving peasants.. good god... please learn how to research on the REAL POOR people of china.
I agree with Dan on the point that I don't feel sorry for the farmer himself. His job isn't any better or worse than another unskilled job in China.
However, I totally disagree with his assertion about it's cheating and the bad analogy of dry cleaning.
First off, it is against the EULA, TOS or whatever a particular company calls it. There is no gray area in this, they clearly state that if Do That You get hit with Ban Stick. Period, The End, Thank You Drive Through. Whenever you click "I Agree" you are accepting their terms to play their game. They say no buy gold, you don't buy gold and you agreed to that.
Secondly it is a form of cheating, you are side-stepping the way the designers meant the game to be played. In a console game, that's a Cheat Code but no big of a deal since it's just you, your couch and your Xbox. The problem is now that either directly or indirectly you are afflecting how other people play. The game is no longer a level playing field, it's about who has the most disposeable cash to spend buying The Sword of Uberness. Think about it in another setting: taking a college course but cuz Student Bob has more money than Student Bill he gets better lab equipment to use, better books and just buys the grade if all else fails. Now if the whole game was built around a Secondary Market, so players know coming in they can either aquire an item through gameplay OR buy it with PayPal, then it is ok since the devs had that already in mind when they made the game.
Another issue is that this gold has to come from somewhere. In Lineage 2 this is a problem as some areas if you show up you will be forceably PK'd out if you don't leave... you're interrupting their farming. When a game is made they know that X Resources are in Y area for Z time. The idea is a player will gather some, then move on. However, if X resources are constantly being farmed they will deplete quickly and the legit player will find it much harder to acquire it himself.
SOE sued Ebay years ago over EQ1 accounts, it was settled. Mythic went to court over DAoC items and accounts being sold, it too was settled. If this was such a "legit" practice, why were they settling instead of fighting for their supposed "rights"?
Comments
he writes a great post I agree. but economic bloat also occurs when people have no job and they sit there and play all day. this is why the old WoW honor system failed cause ppl with free time on their hands made life suck for the rest of us by making the 'top end' too high to hit (made high warlord to high).
I have no idea how to solve economic bloat without extreme measures. in starport they go all the way- straight up permadeath for all at some point whether you want it or not (well on the rebang servers I play on).
so yeah permadeath is one way but no way mainstream will accept permadeath? That's just something us rare hardcores get our kicks on lol. I like to see the universe get ripped apart and reborn and see ev1 start all over together. makes us all equal and fair
<sorry maybe I'm off topic but I fail to see how an asian farmer is any different from players that play 24/7 they all ruin economy surely?>
This argument is inconsequential. It's apples to oranges. The basis for this argument is if it is right for a player, a moral decision, or if it is wrong. The so-called plight of farmers means nothing. The "agreement" (hardly a covenant) between a dev and a player means nothing.
its not the gold farmers that are a problem is the losers that buy gold off em. WoW was full of em. found tonnes of low lvl players that had 1000g+. most of em are kiddies that want the best gear. it completely stuffed up WoW's economy (i blame the gold buyers not the farmers) to stop this you have to stop the retards from buying the gold not the farmers farming the gold.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I have read enough. This is simple. Selling gold in a game IS against the law. For all those who say it's the games own fault...quit playing the game then. If you support gold selling to get the uber gear then in reality you are just sad. I play a MMO for a few hours a week and though I try for the best gear it does not keep me awake at night worring about it. If it bothers you so much that you have to buy gold and support a business that survives by being basically a parasite of MMOs then you need to re-think some life choices.
If I offended anyone with this post then you are probably wrong in your views anyway.
j/k
Kings and Sons of God
Travel on their way from here
Calming restless mobs
Easing all of their, all of their fear
Strange times are here.
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
Let's say you're playing in that same dart tournament and you still have that same amount of practice compared to me. Now let's say we tie because I was able to purchase better darts than the crappy crooked ones you have so it makes up for my lack of practice time. Is that cheating? Using your analogy as it would pertain to mmo's I would be paying money to have 3 extra levels over what the game allows.
No, it's not. Are you honestly that stupid?
Seriously though, what's with all the animosity against those who decide to buy or sell gold? Seriously? Is it jealousy? What of people who sell their accounts? Are they evil too because they want to make something of their time and dedication? Honestly, I dont understand the _why_.
time = money
Some people have the time to grind endlessly to get all the uber gear possible... some people dont. Those that dont sometimes use this little equation, and convert their money into time. Why is that bad? Can someone answer honestly?
Agree with every single point.
If people want gold farming to stop then devs need to create a game that doesn't facilitate this type of activity. Until then I will be paying cents on the hour I am saving by buying gold rather than grinding it.
since the op liked to compare RL cash and rules to virtual ones we can draw another paralell here.
does the op also suggest that the russian site that are selling mp3's(intellectual property of the music company and artist) should be able to sell the music without giving some to the original artist and music company?
bear in mind here that the US goverment is pushing hard to shut down the site and that company.
also bear in mind that blizzard for example owns all the gold in world of warcraft, it is their intellectual property.
does the op imply that it is ok to steal?
because that is essentially what it is, the improper and unlawful use of another persons intellectual property.
/SkitBra
This is about the only anti-farming stance I can agree with. If Blizzard, or any other MMO company feels like there is copyright infringement on this supposedly billion dollar gold-selling operation why isn't anyone doing anything?
Stradden
Finely!
Some one had the gonads to tell it the way it really is. It's about time.
They must find it difficult . . .
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
Rather then truth as the authority.
[url=http://www.planetside-universe.com/character-5428197983261370913.php][img]http://sig.planetside-universe.com/5428197983261370913.png[/img][/url]
This argument is inconsequential. It's apples to oranges. The basis for this argument is if it is right for a player, a moral decision, or if it is wrong. The so-called plight of farmers means nothing. The "agreement" (hardly a covenant) between a dev and a player means nothing.
You are wrong. The EULA is an agreement to follow the guidelines of the game.
You are condoning lying and disregarding the wishes of the majority who specifically choose MMOGs with anti RMT stances just to satisfy your selfish wants. Go play a game that allows RMT trades if that's what you desire.
Which is more sad? Someone that has extra money to burn and decides to spend it on his hobby or some 20 something with no job sitting on their backside mooching off their parents playing a video game 12-20 hours a day?
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Which is more sad? Someone that has extra money to burn and decides to spend it on his hobby or some 20 something with no job sitting on their backside mooching off their parents playing a video game 12-20 hours a day?
Someone who mooches off their parents playing a video game 12- 20 hours a day and spends their parents money on RMT.
Which is more sad? Someone that has extra money to burn and decides to spend it on his hobby or some 20 something with no job sitting on their backside mooching off their parents playing a video game 12-20 hours a day?
Someone who mooches off their parents playing a video game 12- 20 hours a day and spends their parents money on RMT.
Ok now that truly would be the most pathetic thing I have ever heard of roflmao.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
The article has it wrong. Its not against the rules to get dsl or to take your clothes to a laundromat. It is against the rules in most mmos to farm for gold. I do think that those that support gold farming in a game that is against it should be held just as accountable as the farmers. Ultimately its up to the game to handle the problem.
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
It's also your choice if you choose to buy gold and risk the consequences from whomever the MMO developer is. You paying your monthly fees doesn't entitle you to dictate how other players should or shouldn't play the game. Let the developer do that.
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
It's also your choice if you choose to buy gold and risk the consequences from whomever the MMO developer is. You paying your monthly fees doesn't entitle you to dictate how other players should or shouldn't play the game. Let the developer do that.
Wrong. Since I am paying a fee for a product, and that product dictates an anti RMT stance, and part of why I choose that product is to play competitively in an anti RMT environment, then you better believe I am gonna take offense to someone using real world cash to destroy that possibility. You are now directly negatively impacting my fun and my investment of time and fees.
All your logic is belong to us.
Sorry slip, but your argument just doesn't work. Someone having better items than you is cheating? What, did they hack into the game somehow and force <insert boss name here> to drop that <insert item here> they've been looking for? And as far as how much time a person spends playing, a lot of that is based on how a person wants to use the 24 hours available to them. Guess what, you have the same 24 hours that everyone else on this planet does!
Did a goldfarmer hack into a database and add gold to his character? Did the person buying gold? Fairness equates to all things being equal, or fair. If you have items better than mine than that's not very fair is it? So you must be cheating.As for your logic and the whole everyone has 24 hours thing that's just it, not everyone has 24 hours. Some people have jobs, family, lives, etc... So in order to stay competitive in an mmo they buy gold.
The point he was making is that it's your choice how you spend your 24 hours. If you choose to spend a majority with family, real life work , other hobbies, that doesn't entitle you to take shortcuts in a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance.
It's also your choice if you choose to buy gold and risk the consequences from whomever the MMO developer is. You paying your monthly fees doesn't entitle you to dictate how other players should or shouldn't play the game. Let the developer do that.
Wrong. Since I am paying a fee for a product, and that product dictates an anti RMT stance, and part of why I choose that product is to play competitively in an anti RMT environment, then you better believe I am gonna take offense to someone using real world cash to destroy that possibility. You are now directly negatively impacting my fun and my investment of time and fees.
Now you're confusing a monthly fee and owning stock in a company. If you're not having fun because someone bought gold it's not actually DIRECTLY having a negative impact on you. In fact you probably have no idea who does or doesn't buy gold you just get pissed whenever you get outbid on the auction house and automatically assume that the person must have purchased their gold.
Slipcarb, let me ask you something and I want you to be honest.
Why do you choose to play a MMOG which has an anti RMT stance, knowing that you will disregard and disrespect the wishes of both the developers and the majority of players, when you can choose to play a MMOG which supports RMT ?
RMT is supported in EQ2 station exchange, Roma Victor, Project Entropia, any of the Korean item shop games, and even Eve Online in a roundabout way.
I know the answer, but I want to see if you are capable of being honest.
I play games that I enjoy. To enjoy a game I have to have fun going through the content. What you do or don't do doesn't ruin my enjoyment because I can still play the game as it was meant to be played. Is that the answer you knew I was gonna say? Also look at my first post, I don't buy gold. I'm not that much of a loot whore where I'd spend my real life cash on virtual items or cry when others do, but to each his or her own.
The reason people choose to violate the rules of games with anti RMT stances by buying gold and items is very simple. If you and others like you who support RMT, played games that support RMT, you would be like everyone else, no better or worse. You would be on an equal footing, but that's not what you and your ilk desire. You need to cheat in order to get unfair advantages so you can be ahead of everyone else who plays by the rules, and that is why you choose to play anti RMT MMOGs over RMT supported MMOGs.
To the writer of the article:
Most gold farmers do not play legitimately and uses botting software and any cheats and hacks if they can get away with it.
Most farmers employs agressive tactics in their gold farming operations and competition of prime farming spots. I've experienced first hand on how some gold farmers are being excessively rude (some gold farmer in WoW were cussing me in chinese which I incidentally understands when I appeared at his farming spot). Failing to dissuade me from going away, he started to try and train mobs on me hoping that i would die to multiple adds. Of course this doesn't work in wow and he ended up dead coz he is stupid. Now if these stupid dollar-wielding idiots woud like to buy their virtual gold.. then that's their problem however the activities of gold farmers interrupts and degrades the efforts of legitimate players. I mean, I paid $15 bucks to have fun not to get my fun ruined by some poor smuck tthat they are being protrayed as (which isn't true at all) -- these "gold farmers" usually come from middle class families. How the hell do they learn how to use a computer and play games ? You wanna talk about poor in china? The REAL poor people in china are villagers living near the mountains near tibet (or near the hunan and hubei region) who has never even seen much less touch a god damn computer. As for people believing the media portrayal of gold farmers as being down trodden starving peasants.. good god... please learn how to research on the REAL POOR people of china.
I agree with Dan on the point that I don't feel sorry for the farmer himself. His job isn't any better or worse than another unskilled job in China.
However, I totally disagree with his assertion about it's cheating and the bad analogy of dry cleaning.
First off, it is against the EULA, TOS or whatever a particular company calls it. There is no gray area in this, they clearly state that if Do That You get hit with Ban Stick. Period, The End, Thank You Drive Through. Whenever you click "I Agree" you are accepting their terms to play their game. They say no buy gold, you don't buy gold and you agreed to that.
Secondly it is a form of cheating, you are side-stepping the way the designers meant the game to be played. In a console game, that's a Cheat Code but no big of a deal since it's just you, your couch and your Xbox. The problem is now that either directly or indirectly you are afflecting how other people play. The game is no longer a level playing field, it's about who has the most disposeable cash to spend buying The Sword of Uberness. Think about it in another setting: taking a college course but cuz Student Bob has more money than Student Bill he gets better lab equipment to use, better books and just buys the grade if all else fails. Now if the whole game was built around a Secondary Market, so players know coming in they can either aquire an item through gameplay OR buy it with PayPal, then it is ok since the devs had that already in mind when they made the game.
Another issue is that this gold has to come from somewhere. In Lineage 2 this is a problem as some areas if you show up you will be forceably PK'd out if you don't leave... you're interrupting their farming. When a game is made they know that X Resources are in Y area for Z time. The idea is a player will gather some, then move on. However, if X resources are constantly being farmed they will deplete quickly and the legit player will find it much harder to acquire it himself.
SOE sued Ebay years ago over EQ1 accounts, it was settled. Mythic went to court over DAoC items and accounts being sold, it too was settled. If this was such a "legit" practice, why were they settling instead of fighting for their supposed "rights"?