So I still stand by my point earlier about the Chosen that I specifically bolded in my quote from the Warhammer Online website. Huge Behemoths. They couldn't achieve the iconic look they wanted with the female form, so they stuck to the male form. I also didn't say there weren't female Chosen. I said Mythic decided the Chosen should be male only, probably with some pushing from Games Workshop. It wasn't done just to deny female gamers a profession, it was done to capture the iconic look of the Chosen that Mythic wanted.
This is a cop out. Have you ever seen a female body builder? No, they don't look feminine. That's sort of the whole point. Femininity is a biased concept that we have, based on the accepted roles that the gender is allowed to fulfill. What they meant to say was "We couldn't take our idealized image of a women, with conspicuous breasts and slender limbs, and somehow make that work in the hulking behemoth role". Which is, of course, crap. There's no reason you can't make a hulking behemoth female. Yes, she will look like exactly like a female body builder. No, that may not be particularly attractive to a lot of guys. Yeah, in a lot of ways, female body builders look exactly like male body builders with a woman's head attached. But so what? Not every female character has to be a model of "feminine beauty".
Sigh.. it's no wonder the dominant percentage of female gamers playing online games (and there are more of them than us, by the wya, for anyone that cares to look up the stats) are stuck in online card games. We aren't exactly going out of our way to make this an inclusive segment of the market yet...
All I am doing is restating Mythic's response as to why they decided on no female Chosen. Let me post it again.
"Yes, you can find evidence in the lore of female Chaos Champions. I never said there were no cases of female Champions. Adam never said it. No one ever said it. But if you look at the dominant, iconic representations of Chaos Champions, they are enormous, hulking, masculine figures. That's the core of the IP and it's the look we're going for with the Chosen.
- From an artistic standpoint, there was no good way to create a female Chosen that maintained the look and visual impact we wanted without sacrificing everything that could in any reasonable way be regarded as "feminine." We weren't simply going to strap a female head onto a male body and call it a female Chosen."
Josh_Mythic Senior Designer, EA Mythic
Mythic said they were unable to come up with a look that kept the feel of what they wanted the Chosen to be. So they decided against it. And have you seen what the Chosen look like? Not quite a female bodybuilder look. This is the current artwork for the Chosen:
Now I highly doubt Mythic didn't try to create female Chosen. I'd be willing to bet it was more along the lines of what I posted after the post you quoted. For reiteration:
Who's to say Games Workshop didn't have a part in it and Mythic isn't allowed to talk about it. Perhaps Mythic nor Games Workshop can find a look they are pleased with when it comes to female Chosen. Justine in the book isn't drawn out. Mythic may have submitted some female Chosen artwork and it got shot down by Games Workshop.
We don't know the full story behind why only male Chosen are being allowed. We will probably never know. All we can go on is what Mythic tells us. Perhaps providing feedback to Games Workshop on wanting to see female Chosen would be well placed. They do afterall control everything. All artwork has to pass their approval. Mythic has come out and said this quite plainly on a few occasions.
This one is a slippery slope question, folks....one side, they can make these grotesque human-looking females for the Chosen and satisfy a portion of women gamers who just feel the gender classes are wrong (general IP pointing to a rarity of such instances or not) and will not play Chosen because they can't be female Chosen. On the other side, you CAN create those characters and make them as grotesque as they need to be, and have all the uninformed feminist organizations come down on the game like a pack of buzzards for the way they demeaned and mutilated the female form/ideal by making women "monsters". The orcs/dwarfs/goblins argument doesn't hold at this point because being generally recognized fantasy archetypes the above feminists can be placated into acceptance by citing classical sources. The more human looking you get, the more careful you have to become about the choices you can make without causing a major stink amongst some group that can shut you down or give you inordinate amounts of bad press.
Originally posted by AdythielAll I am doing is restating Mythic's response as to why they decided on no female Chosen. Let me post it again.
Mythic said they were unable to come up with a look that kept the feel of what they wanted the Chosen to be. So they decided against it. And have you seen what the Chosen look like? Not quite a female bodybuilder look. This is the current artwork for the Chosen:
Yeah, I was saying Mythic had taken a cop out, not you
They look as much like a female body builder as a male body builder -- which is to say, they are highly fantasized versions either way. There's no reason you couldn't put some braids on that concept art and call her Helga.
Further, Mythic blaming it on Games Workshop, or vice versa, is a nice round of "pass the buck". Whichever names go on the box, they are all collectively responsible for this decision. So in reality, another cop out on their part.
Again, fundamentally, this just speaks to the basic sexist nature of the issue. They even admit that the IP and lore support the concept of a female in this archtype, so effectively their only defense at this point seems to be that they don't want to have "ugly" women characters. That's not much of a defense.
On the other side, you CAN create those characters and make them as grotesque as they need to be, and have all the uninformed feminist organizations come down on the game like a pack of buzzards for the way they demeaned and mutilated the female form/ideal by making women "monsters".
Another fundamentally sexist opinion. So it's OK to deform/mutilate/whatever a male into "monster" form, but not OK for a female? Because I'll be honest, the male chosen is a pretty grotesque mutilation of the male "human" form too. This isn't hypersensitivity... this is the definition of a double-standard. If you throw out the double-standard then it becomes a no-brainer. If it's OK for males, it should be OK for females too.
Originally posted by M1sf1t I agree but the Marketing team and Art team have spoken. When female players start to become more visible in the genre to the point where the guys/gals in marketing really notice them that is when you will see some things change.
And this is unfortunately a catch-22. If you turn females away from the market, they'll never have a visible role in the market. Yes, the marketing and art team have spoken. And if it goes forward like this, maybe the consumers should speak too, with their wallets. As the saying goes...
And honestly, from a pure marketing perspective, let's turn it around. How many guys are NOT going to play this game if they allow female Chosen? I see maybe one hand way in the back, and he's just being rebellious. I mean, honestly guys... do you CARE? I don't. I can't imagine anyone who really does -- at least, not enough to make them avoid the game on that issue alone. On the other hand... how many females might not play because of this decision, and this decision only? A small few? Even if it's just a couple, why make arbitrary decisions that limit your audience?
Swift kick to the teeth to nerds who play female chars only soo they can wack off to them.Class specific genders are cool,expecialy that they fit the lore,remember in warhammer orcs and goblins are online male... soo go back to cartoon WoW land were orcs are nice and cudly.
Originally posted by Chaia So, what does everyone think about the fact that Chaos Chosen and possibly Chaos Marauder to be male only? Many people are apparently justifying this by saying that Mythic went out of their way to allow female dwarves, espeically warrior priests. Do you think that it is right or fair in an mmo to limit who can be female or male especially with classes that can only be male without having classes that can only be female? edit: I am not part of or affiliated with anyone in WAR beta.
Wel, there aren't ANY female greenskins so.. I don't think that's much of a deal.
Thing is, which people might have missed; It's a game with 25years of lore. You play a role in that game, adaption is obviously needed..
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
Like the scratchpup said. If there is mention in lore about 1 or two female Chaos Warrior it does not mean that they would be common. 1 or two female Chaos Warriors cant support whole player base of Chaos Chosens lore wise. When I heard that there is going to be gender classes and races I thought it would be cool thing. Giving game more depth in lore wise. Please dont push our world standarts into world of warhammer.
So I still stand by my point earlier about the Chosen that I specifically bolded in my quote from the Warhammer Online website. Huge Behemoths. They couldn't achieve the iconic look they wanted with the female form, so they stuck to the male form. I also didn't say there weren't female Chosen. I said Mythic decided the Chosen should be male only, probably with some pushing from Games Workshop. It wasn't done just to deny female gamers a profession, it was done to capture the iconic look of the Chosen that Mythic wanted.
This is a cop out. Have you ever seen a female body builder? No, they don't look feminine. That's sort of the whole point. Femininity is a biased concept that we have, based on the accepted roles that the gender is allowed to fulfill. What they meant to say was "We couldn't take our idealized image of a women, with conspicuous breasts and slender limbs, and somehow make that work in the hulking behemoth role". Which is, of course, crap. There's no reason you can't make a hulking behemoth female. Yes, she will look like exactly like a female body builder. No, that may not be particularly attractive to a lot of guys. Yeah, in a lot of ways, female body builders look exactly like male body builders with a woman's head attached. But so what? Not every female character has to be a model of "feminine beauty".
Sigh.. it's no wonder the dominant percentage of female gamers playing online games (and there are more of them than us, by the wya, for anyone that cares to look up the stats) are stuck in online card games. We aren't exactly going out of our way to make this an inclusive segment of the market yet...
I agree but the Marketing team and Art team have spoken. When female players start to become more visible in the genre to the point where the guys/gals in marketing really notice them that is when you will see some things change.
P.S. We all start as females in the womb. If someone disagrees ask them why do males need nipples when they only serve a biological purpose on females who give birth and use them to provide milk to their babies.
Actually, males don't start off as females. They lack genitalia and breasts. At best you can say it's androgynous since ALL animals have breasts. All you can say is that it's like a sketch or a mold. Features form and differentiate in the womb to fill in the blanks. I know this is about WAR but I felt the burning need to correct. My apologies if this has offended you.
If you dont like the direction of the game, dont play it.... I for one will be playing and loving it... and im so gald that GW are strict on what can go in the game and what cant... many people who demand change, are not really fans and have no respect for the 25 years of lore that they have built... stop moaning and stop whining about things that wont be changed.
"But plix ... PLIX!!! I wants to be a males Amazon"
"shhh... shhh... there there, they dont exist simple fool... Amazons are female warriors only... so live with it or stfu"
Can you see my point?
If you cant im sure there are other games that will let you be what ever it is you want to be... Warhammer... not gunna change a thng... so Shhhhhhh. And go cry in your big bowl of rice pudding.
On the other side, you CAN create those characters and make them as grotesque as they need to be, and have all the uninformed feminist organizations come down on the game like a pack of buzzards for the way they demeaned and mutilated the female form/ideal by making women "monsters".
Another fundamentally sexist opinion. So it's OK to deform/mutilate/whatever a male into "monster" form, but not OK for a female? Because I'll be honest, the male chosen is a pretty grotesque mutilation of the male "human" form too. This isn't hypersensitivity... this is the definition of a double-standard. If you throw out the double-standard then it becomes a no-brainer. If it's OK for males, it should be OK for females too.
Okay how is it a double-standard when it's a Feminist (PRO-FEMALE) organization that is saying the mutilation of the female for is displeasing to them?!? You realize that females enforce such double-standards quite as often as males if not more so, right?
Take the industry I work in, Allied Health. Unless your are working in a higher-level job, or a large hospital/organization, you will not be hired as a man because you "do not project a nurturing and welcome atmosphere to the patients when they 1st walk through the door", whereas a woman can have the worst attendance record (and not for family reasons either), break rules and regs left and right, yet still be kept on because of their "effect on patient relations". As much as we want to believe we can all be equal little tree-huggers, it's not gonna happen, one gender or another is going to get shafted for whatever reason.
While I certainly hope women gamers decide to play WAR and feel welcome, I'm guessing that at first WAR will be even more male dominated than most MMOG titles. Sorry, but I've seen one, maybe two females play tabletop Warhammer in the 12 some odd years I've been in the hobby. Yes, the online game will be a completely different experience than tabletop, but WAR remains a PVP-oriented title set in a very dark world of endless combat and slaughter. In other words, the game by its very nature will appeal to far more male than female players. If you're quibbling about why this or that class is stereotypical against women, or that not having female squig herders is turning women away from the game, you're missing the forest for the trees.
I may get flamed for this, but I support Mythic's decision to stay true to the IP and shamelessly cater to the game's core demographic - guys. As long as there are cool all-female classes like the Witch Elves, I don't have a problem with all-,male Chosen.
@Maxstone - your situation truly sucks my friend. I have some guy friends who also work in medical billing and describe some of the same problems. I hope you have some easily transferrable skills to launch a new career if you're being treated that badly.
I don't think females fit into the warhammer world and neither do they really. But I guess they'll be in the game in some way
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
For me, this is not about the lore or all of you who don't care because you're male and it doesn't effect you. It's about the gameplay and how much the industry has underestimated its female audience. It's about the fact that it is drastically unfair for them to say that they are too lazy to make something available to everyone. It wouldn't feel the same for men to have to play a female than for a woman to have to play a male. I can guarantee that this will come up again closer to release and will be taken upon by people in the industry. Building a game on lore is great, but using lore to restrict gameplay in such a huge way is not.
Yeah, I was saying Mythic had taken a cop out, not you They look as much like a female body builder as a male body builder -- which is to say, they are highly fantasized versions either way. There's no reason you couldn't put some braids on that concept art and call her Helga. Further, Mythic blaming it on Games Workshop, or vice versa, is a nice round of "pass the buck". Whichever names go on the box, they are all collectively responsible for this decision. So in reality, another cop out on their part. Again, fundamentally, this just speaks to the basic sexist nature of the issue. They even admit that the IP and lore support the concept of a female in this archtype, so effectively their only defense at this point seems to be that they don't want to have "ugly" women characters. That's not much of a defense.
So why don't you (as someone else suggested) put on a helmet and call your character Helga? You have just said that there doesn't need to be any difference in the models, just a few braids... and if the difference is just a few braids there doesn't really need to be any difference at all.
I think you're all skirting the real issue. There are female Chosen, but what they've been chosen to do is breed and create more chosen, marauders, zealots, and magi. My theory is in the lore the only reason a female Chosen is seen in battle is because she could not sufficiently serve in purpose she was truly chosen for (arguably the most important purpose) of creating more servants of chaos.
For me, this is not about the lore or all of you who don't care because you're male and it doesn't effect you. It's about the gameplay and how much the industry has underestimated its female audience. It's about the fact that it is drastically unfair for them to say that they are too lazy to make something available to everyone. It wouldn't feel the same for men to have to play a female than for a woman to have to play a male. I can guarantee that this will come up again closer to release and will be taken upon by people in the industry. Building a game on lore is great, but using lore to restrict gameplay in such a huge way is not.
Sorry but that's not true, my sister told me she doesnt care about the gender of her chosen (she's all about chaos...) as long as it got great design.
Come on, who cares about what's under the pants of ur character, it's a game, you dont have to go through the pain of transgender cirurgy to play as a male chosen. (that's more or less what she told me to type )
This is a pretty interesting topic, and a good one at that. To the females who are crying over this please stop and look at the whole picture look at something the way it makes sense. In ancient times all the elite warriors have been males and theres a reason for that, males are mentally stronger when it comes to war, killing and taking on a hard task (not getting emotional etc). Males are bigger in body/muscle size and stronger in strength than a woman, if anyting a woman may be more tricky than a male, as far as mental abilities go. Please look at the history of our race and how our gender differs from one another and you will see that Mythic is just being real and is not against females. I can see a witch being an only female class because it makes sense and I wouldnt disagree with it or blame anyone for making it that way, seriously females have everything made easy to them in todays life and i really dont wanna hear it so please shut up im really fed up with it.
I used to work for Starbucks once upon a time and it wasnt very long ago, I seen shit that you wouldnt believe, I seen guys get fired over giving a free drink to one of their friends while one of our girl employees came to work shitfaced, got into a fight with a costumer got reported to the district manager and just got a warning when it was a clear code violation and not just one violation but numerous.
When it comes to retail a girl has a much higher chance to get hired than a guy and simply girls have it easy, if a girl hates a guy she can make shit up and take them to court and they will win (seen it happen to one of my friends i went to high school with) but if you are a guy and try to do the same thing you get laughed at.
And if you disagree with this than you dont have much experience with the females today but anyway I dont wanna get out of topic about this, I just want the bitching to stop, really because its discusting, and not fair to cry over something like this when you have so much more.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC -Playing WoW -Retired- SWG -Retired- EVE -Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled) - 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
Come on, who cares about what's under the pants of ur character, it's a game, you dont have to go through the pain of transgender cirurgy to play as a male chosen. (that's more or less what she told me to type )
Buddy, it sounds like your sister has some issues of her own there...
OK, here's an observation from WOW. Blizzard permitted the creation of female Dwarves. They weren't terribly attractive and almost everyone I've ever met was played by a male.
Meanwhile, I've met lots of female players in WOW, and on the alliance side they favored human/elf/gnome characters over the unloved dwarf females. (heck, the horde in Warcraft suffered lower numbers because some women refused to play that side until Blood Elves were introduced)
Even when Dwarf Priests received a great skill, Fear Ward, females would rather play NELF Priests because 'they look better".
So why waste the time to make large, hulking Chosen in WAR? 95% of females won't play them....because they won't look feminine enough ...better to save the resources and stick with the plan they set out.
edit... the percentages in my post are provided for illustration of order of magnitude and in no way reflect any real research done by myself or anyone else that I'm aware of.......
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What does the Warhammer canon say about these classes. Are they limited to gender?
Well in the Lore there are Female Chosen. However, in the Lore, there are NO Female Warrior Priests, and you'll be able to be a female Warrior Priest in WAR
Thing is, a Female Chosen would be a Butt-Ugly, Hairy (did I say HORRIBLY UGLY?), almost-looking-like-a-half-ogre Abomination...so they simply aren't implementing them. (Imagine a Female Dwarf with more Hair, 2,10 m Big and 1.80 m broad and an uglier Face, then let that thing breed with a Ogre or Troll, and the Result will be a Female Chosen )
Well pure Physical Strengh is naturally the domain of Men, so I can totally live with their decision. Let's face it, no Warcraft Female char would nearly be as Powerful as the Male counterpart in terms of Strengh. There is a reason why across the Cultures, males were the Soldiers, instead of Females, almost everywhere.
Keep the War to the Men, give 'em some hot Elven Chicks, and everyone's happy
People can go on all day about sexist this and sexist that, but the real questions are
1) Will it break the game? (I'm going to say no)
2) Will you not play the game due to a few classes only allowing one sex choice? (I'm going to assume there is going to be an all female class as well)
3) Why do you really care? It's a video game and doesn't really impact real life in any significant manner.
It's not like the government is going to follow the example of a game and decide that women can longer be doctors and men can no longer be lawyers. It's a game. Find something that matters to complain about. You might actually make a difference in the world.
Comments
This is a cop out. Have you ever seen a female body builder? No, they don't look feminine. That's sort of the whole point. Femininity is a biased concept that we have, based on the accepted roles that the gender is allowed to fulfill. What they meant to say was "We couldn't take our idealized image of a women, with conspicuous breasts and slender limbs, and somehow make that work in the hulking behemoth role". Which is, of course, crap. There's no reason you can't make a hulking behemoth female. Yes, she will look like exactly like a female body builder. No, that may not be particularly attractive to a lot of guys. Yeah, in a lot of ways, female body builders look exactly like male body builders with a woman's head attached. But so what? Not every female character has to be a model of "feminine beauty".
Sigh.. it's no wonder the dominant percentage of female gamers playing online games (and there are more of them than us, by the wya, for anyone that cares to look up the stats) are stuck in online card games. We aren't exactly going out of our way to make this an inclusive segment of the market yet...
All I am doing is restating Mythic's response as to why they decided on no female Chosen. Let me post it again."Yes, you can find evidence in the lore of female Chaos Champions. I never said there were no cases of female Champions. Adam never said it. No one ever said it. But if you look at the dominant, iconic representations of Chaos Champions, they are enormous, hulking, masculine figures. That's the core of the IP and it's the look we're going for with the Chosen.
- From an artistic standpoint, there was no good way to create a female Chosen that maintained the look and visual impact we wanted without sacrificing everything that could in any reasonable way be regarded as "feminine." We weren't simply going to strap a female head onto a male body and call it a female Chosen."
Josh_Mythic Senior Designer, EA Mythic
Mythic said they were unable to come up with a look that kept the feel of what they wanted the Chosen to be. So they decided against it. And have you seen what the Chosen look like? Not quite a female bodybuilder look. This is the current artwork for the Chosen:
Now I highly doubt Mythic didn't try to create female Chosen. I'd be willing to bet it was more along the lines of what I posted after the post you quoted. For reiteration:
Who's to say Games Workshop didn't have a part in it and Mythic isn't allowed to talk about it. Perhaps Mythic nor Games Workshop can find a look they are pleased with when it comes to female Chosen. Justine in the book isn't drawn out. Mythic may have submitted some female Chosen artwork and it got shot down by Games Workshop.
We don't know the full story behind why only male Chosen are being allowed. We will probably never know. All we can go on is what Mythic tells us. Perhaps providing feedback to Games Workshop on wanting to see female Chosen would be well placed. They do afterall control everything. All artwork has to pass their approval. Mythic has come out and said this quite plainly on a few occasions.
This one is a slippery slope question, folks....one side, they can make these grotesque human-looking females for the Chosen and satisfy a portion of women gamers who just feel the gender classes are wrong (general IP pointing to a rarity of such instances or not) and will not play Chosen because they can't be female Chosen. On the other side, you CAN create those characters and make them as grotesque as they need to be, and have all the uninformed feminist organizations come down on the game like a pack of buzzards for the way they demeaned and mutilated the female form/ideal by making women "monsters". The orcs/dwarfs/goblins argument doesn't hold at this point because being generally recognized fantasy archetypes the above feminists can be placated into acceptance by citing classical sources. The more human looking you get, the more careful you have to become about the choices you can make without causing a major stink amongst some group that can shut you down or give you inordinate amounts of bad press.
Pick from 2 groups to tick off...
Yeah, I was saying Mythic had taken a cop out, not you
They look as much like a female body builder as a male body builder -- which is to say, they are highly fantasized versions either way. There's no reason you couldn't put some braids on that concept art and call her Helga.
Further, Mythic blaming it on Games Workshop, or vice versa, is a nice round of "pass the buck". Whichever names go on the box, they are all collectively responsible for this decision. So in reality, another cop out on their part.
Again, fundamentally, this just speaks to the basic sexist nature of the issue. They even admit that the IP and lore support the concept of a female in this archtype, so effectively their only defense at this point seems to be that they don't want to have "ugly" women characters. That's not much of a defense.
Another fundamentally sexist opinion. So it's OK to deform/mutilate/whatever a male into "monster" form, but not OK for a female? Because I'll be honest, the male chosen is a pretty grotesque mutilation of the male "human" form too. This isn't hypersensitivity... this is the definition of a double-standard. If you throw out the double-standard then it becomes a no-brainer. If it's OK for males, it should be OK for females too.
And this is unfortunately a catch-22. If you turn females away from the market, they'll never have a visible role in the market. Yes, the marketing and art team have spoken. And if it goes forward like this, maybe the consumers should speak too, with their wallets. As the saying goes...
And honestly, from a pure marketing perspective, let's turn it around. How many guys are NOT going to play this game if they allow female Chosen? I see maybe one hand way in the back, and he's just being rebellious. I mean, honestly guys... do you CARE? I don't. I can't imagine anyone who really does -- at least, not enough to make them avoid the game on that issue alone. On the other hand... how many females might not play because of this decision, and this decision only? A small few? Even if it's just a couple, why make arbitrary decisions that limit your audience?
Swift kick to the teeth to nerds who play female chars only soo they can wack off to them.Class specific genders are cool,expecialy that they fit the lore,remember in warhammer orcs and goblins are online male... soo go back to cartoon WoW land were orcs are nice and cudly.
I think it's great. At least it'll cut down on the number of guys playing female toons just to get money.
It doesn't fit the IP, simple..
Yes, there might have been an occasional rare female chosen.
The key word, rare.
Seeing more than 1 or 2 female chosen around simply wouldn't fit their idea of the Warhammer world.
Something that is RARE in the IP doesn't mean it should instantly be openly common in the MMO.
It's pretty simple. =]
~
Thing is, which people might have missed;
It's a game with 25years of lore.
You play a role in that game, adaption is obviously needed..
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Like the scratchpup said. If there is mention in lore about 1 or two female Chaos Warrior it does not mean that they would be common. 1 or two female Chaos Warriors cant support whole player base of Chaos Chosens lore wise. When I heard that there is going to be gender classes and races I thought it would be cool thing. Giving game more depth in lore wise. Please dont push our world standarts into world of warhammer.
Sigh.. it's no wonder the dominant percentage of female gamers playing online games (and there are more of them than us, by the wya, for anyone that cares to look up the stats) are stuck in online card games. We aren't exactly going out of our way to make this an inclusive segment of the market yet...
I agree but the Marketing team and Art team have spoken. When female players start to become more visible in the genre to the point where the guys/gals in marketing really notice them that is when you will see some things change.
P.S. We all start as females in the womb. If someone disagrees ask them why do males need nipples when they only serve a biological purpose on females who give birth and use them to provide milk to their babies.
Actually, males don't start off as females. They lack genitalia and breasts. At best you can say it's androgynous since ALL animals have breasts. All you can say is that it's like a sketch or a mold. Features form and differentiate in the womb to fill in the blanks. I know this is about WAR but I felt the burning need to correct. My apologies if this has offended you.
If you dont like the direction of the game, dont play it.... I for one will be playing and loving it... and im so gald that GW are strict on what can go in the game and what cant... many people who demand change, are not really fans and have no respect for the 25 years of lore that they have built... stop moaning and stop whining about things that wont be changed.
"But plix ... PLIX!!! I wants to be a males Amazon"
"shhh... shhh... there there, they dont exist simple fool... Amazons are female warriors only... so live with it or stfu"
Can you see my point?
If you cant im sure there are other games that will let you be what ever it is you want to be... Warhammer... not gunna change a thng... so Shhhhhhh. And go cry in your big bowl of rice pudding.
Another fundamentally sexist opinion. So it's OK to deform/mutilate/whatever a male into "monster" form, but not OK for a female? Because I'll be honest, the male chosen is a pretty grotesque mutilation of the male "human" form too. This isn't hypersensitivity... this is the definition of a double-standard. If you throw out the double-standard then it becomes a no-brainer. If it's OK for males, it should be OK for females too.
Okay how is it a double-standard when it's a Feminist (PRO-FEMALE) organization that is saying the mutilation of the female for is displeasing to them?!? You realize that females enforce such double-standards quite as often as males if not more so, right?Take the industry I work in, Allied Health. Unless your are working in a higher-level job, or a large hospital/organization, you will not be hired as a man because you "do not project a nurturing and welcome atmosphere to the patients when they 1st walk through the door", whereas a woman can have the worst attendance record (and not for family reasons either), break rules and regs left and right, yet still be kept on because of their "effect on patient relations". As much as we want to believe we can all be equal little tree-huggers, it's not gonna happen, one gender or another is going to get shafted for whatever reason.
While I certainly hope women gamers decide to play WAR and feel welcome, I'm guessing that at first WAR will be even more male dominated than most MMOG titles. Sorry, but I've seen one, maybe two females play tabletop Warhammer in the 12 some odd years I've been in the hobby. Yes, the online game will be a completely different experience than tabletop, but WAR remains a PVP-oriented title set in a very dark world of endless combat and slaughter. In other words, the game by its very nature will appeal to far more male than female players. If you're quibbling about why this or that class is stereotypical against women, or that not having female squig herders is turning women away from the game, you're missing the forest for the trees.
I may get flamed for this, but I support Mythic's decision to stay true to the IP and shamelessly cater to the game's core demographic - guys. As long as there are cool all-female classes like the Witch Elves, I don't have a problem with all-,male Chosen.
@Maxstone - your situation truly sucks my friend. I have some guy friends who also work in medical billing and describe some of the same problems. I hope you have some easily transferrable skills to launch a new career if you're being treated that badly.
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I don't think females fit into the warhammer world and neither do they really. But I guess they'll be in the game in some way
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
No females! Fuck them.
For me, this is not about the lore or all of you who don't care because you're male and it doesn't effect you. It's about the gameplay and how much the industry has underestimated its female audience. It's about the fact that it is drastically unfair for them to say that they are too lazy to make something available to everyone. It wouldn't feel the same for men to have to play a female than for a woman to have to play a male. I can guarantee that this will come up again closer to release and will be taken upon by people in the industry. Building a game on lore is great, but using lore to restrict gameplay in such a huge way is not.
>No females! Fuck Them. -Saekora
Enjoy your asexual reproduction. Onanism is your only hope.
So why don't you (as someone else suggested) put on a helmet and call your character Helga? You have just said that there doesn't need to be any difference in the models, just a few braids... and if the difference is just a few braids there doesn't really need to be any difference at all.
I think you're all skirting the real issue. There are female Chosen, but what they've been chosen to do is breed and create more chosen, marauders, zealots, and magi. My theory is in the lore the only reason a female Chosen is seen in battle is because she could not sufficiently serve in purpose she was truly chosen for (arguably the most important purpose) of creating more servants of chaos.
How's that for fundamental sexism?
Come on, who cares about what's under the pants of ur character, it's a game, you dont have to go through the pain of transgender cirurgy to play as a male chosen. (that's more or less what she told me to type
)
This is a pretty interesting topic, and a good one at that. To the females who are crying over this please stop and look at the whole picture look at something the way it makes sense. In ancient times all the elite warriors have been males and theres a reason for that, males are mentally stronger when it comes to war, killing and taking on a hard task (not getting emotional etc). Males are bigger in body/muscle size and stronger in strength than a woman, if anyting a woman may be more tricky than a male, as far as mental abilities go. Please look at the history of our race and how our gender differs from one another and you will see that Mythic is just being real and is not against females. I can see a witch being an only female class because it makes sense and I wouldnt disagree with it or blame anyone for making it that way, seriously females have everything made easy to them in todays life and i really dont wanna hear it so please shut up im really fed up with it.
I used to work for Starbucks once upon a time and it wasnt very long ago, I seen shit that you wouldnt believe, I seen guys get fired over giving a free drink to one of their friends while one of our girl employees came to work shitfaced, got into a fight with a costumer got reported to the district manager and just got a warning when it was a clear code violation and not just one violation but numerous.
When it comes to retail a girl has a much higher chance to get hired than a guy and simply girls have it easy, if a girl hates a guy she can make shit up and take them to court and they will win (seen it happen to one of my friends i went to high school with) but if you are a guy and try to do the same thing you get laughed at.
And if you disagree with this than you dont have much experience with the females today but anyway I dont wanna get out of topic about this, I just want the bitching to stop, really because its discusting, and not fair to cry over something like this when you have so much more.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
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Buddy, it sounds like your sister has some issues of her own there...
OK, here's an observation from WOW. Blizzard permitted the creation of female Dwarves. They weren't terribly attractive and almost everyone I've ever met was played by a male.
Meanwhile, I've met lots of female players in WOW, and on the alliance side they favored human/elf/gnome characters over the unloved dwarf females. (heck, the horde in Warcraft suffered lower numbers because some women refused to play that side until Blood Elves were introduced)
Even when Dwarf Priests received a great skill, Fear Ward, females would rather play NELF Priests because 'they look better".
So why waste the time to make large, hulking Chosen in WAR? 95% of females won't play them....because they won't look feminine enough ...better to save the resources and stick with the plan they set out.
edit... the percentages in my post are provided for illustration of order of magnitude and in no way reflect any real research done by myself or anyone else that I'm aware of.......
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well in the Lore there are Female Chosen. However, in the Lore, there are NO Female Warrior Priests, and you'll be able to be a female Warrior Priest in WAR
Thing is, a Female Chosen would be a Butt-Ugly, Hairy (did I say HORRIBLY UGLY?), almost-looking-like-a-half-ogre Abomination...so they simply aren't implementing them. (Imagine a Female Dwarf with more Hair, 2,10 m Big and 1.80 m broad and an uglier Face, then let that thing breed with a Ogre or Troll, and the Result will be a Female Chosen
)
Well pure Physical Strengh is naturally the domain of Men, so I can totally live with their decision. Let's face it, no Warcraft Female char would nearly be as Powerful as the Male counterpart in terms of Strengh. There is a reason why across the Cultures, males were the Soldiers, instead of Females, almost everywhere.
Keep the War to the Men, give 'em some hot Elven Chicks, and everyone's happy
People can go on all day about sexist this and sexist that, but the real questions are
1) Will it break the game? (I'm going to say no)
2) Will you not play the game due to a few classes only allowing one sex choice? (I'm going to assume there is going to be an all female class as well)
3) Why do you really care? It's a video game and doesn't really impact real life in any significant manner.
It's not like the government is going to follow the example of a game and decide that women can longer be doctors and men can no longer be lawyers. It's a game. Find something that matters to complain about. You might actually make a difference in the world.