Wikipedia aside, if you check Vivendi's corporate site, you will find that Blizzard is listed under Vivendi Games as a division of Vivendi Games. In fact, while WoW was still under development, Vivendi was casting around looking for a buyer for Blizzard. They're probably glad they decided not to sell since WoW pulled a sinking division into the black. That said, it's safe to assume that the lion's share of WoW profits are going into Vivendi coffers. Blizzard is given a budget from that, just like any other subsidiary. In other words, they only get what Vivendi gives them.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
tbh i dont think wow will last forever, but ofc because there is so many people playing it atm it wont died anytime soon..
But what will kill it is the big difference between hardcore and casual gamers, before tbc the difference between the hardcore and casual gamers was getting so big and hardcore people had trouble finding people to raid with them cause none was except themselves were really at their level, and the casuals had to way of getting to the hardcore gamers level..
Then blizzard kinda reseted the game by raising the lvl cap and making all current gear almost useless in lvl 70... and that worked out for a while aswell, but now the gasp is getting to big again cause the hardcores are to hardcore and kill anything blizzard makes in a few weeks, while the more casual gamers are years behind in progress..
And blizzard cant just stop making content for the hardcore people, so the gasp between hardcore and casuals will just grow..
One of the other problems with the raids in general is that there is a limit to how hard you can make the encounters, pre-tbc raiding was kinda new for alot of people and in Naxxramas blizzard made alot of new special fights with new mechanics, but now they just kinda used them all.. they cant make anything new, it will just be more and more of the same..
Khanstruct - I don't agree that WoW hasn't changed how much it costs to develop an MMORPG, not at all. WoW raised the quality bar by a fairly large margin. To compete with it, other MMORPGs need to be of similar quality and offer unique features. This means graphics at least as good (which, despite WoW's low poly count, is actually quite a high standard), a decent, well-tested interface, a relatively bug-free launch, gameplay that is well-tested and basically fun, and so on.
So I think it costs a hell of a lot more now to develop an MMORPG successfully than it did when, say, Dark Age of Camelot was released. An example of this, to me, is Vanguard - they ran out of money, yet as I understand it, the amount spent on the game was significantly more than EQ2, and I don't think this was just a case of financial mismangement - as games become more complex, and require better testing, as players become more demanding (particularly mass-market players), costs rise. Vanguard sold well over 100k copies initially (according to it's developer), and yet I don't think anyone could call it a hit. DDO sold more copies still, yet is considered a dismal failure even with 50k+ subs remaining.
Maybe the change from a standard $9.99/month to $14.99/month covers this increase in costs, but I don't think so.
So I think WoW has changed how much it costs to develop an MMORPG, and thus changed what is required to be regarded as a "success".
Otherwise, I tend to agree. Interesting point about SC2 leading to a "Galaxy of Starcraft". To be honest, I'll believe it when I see it. No doubt Blizzard is saving the announcement of any future MMORPG products for when it will cause most damage to competitors (or at least most advantage to Blizzard).
obviously not in the very near future, but what is everones oppinion on when WoW will finally die its inevitable death? i know WoW fanboys like to think it will be around forever, but every mmo fails one day. Will it be a sudden death brought on by an expansion which makes all the million hours you've farmed and raided for nothing ( TOA for Daoc), or by introducing a key feature which conflicts with the values of the game ( Trammel for UO) of do you guys think it will just slowly decay over the next 5 years from newly released games?
Just like any game it will eventually get played out ..but who knows ... even oldies like Everquest is still going on and the developers still continue to churn out 1 expansion every year and EQ has been running since what 1998 ? I'd say WoW will still have a long life to go ... I'd say 10-15 years at least or until World of Warcraft 2 or World of Starcraft comes out.
Don't hold your breath. There are 9- and 10-year old MMOs still being played. WoW won't always have 8 million players, and its subscription dropoff may be rapid given the sheer number of people currently playing, but it's not goign anywhere anytime soon. For any game, there are always a couple hundred thousand who think it's the best ever, and no game can possibly compete with their favorite.
I remember at one time Everquest broke 500,000 concurrent users online and it was considered a smashing success... nowadays I think probably about 50,000 - 75,000 players still play to keep the game going. Heck I have online friends that I met since 1999 in EQ that still plays EQ nowadays altho its more of an on and off thing.
obviously not in the very near future, but what is everones oppinion on when WoW will finally die its inevitable death? i know WoW fanboys like to think it will be around forever, but every mmo fails one day. Will it be a sudden death brought on by an expansion which makes all the million hours you've farmed and raided for nothing ( TOA for Daoc), or by introducing a key feature which conflicts with the values of the game ( Trammel for UO) of do you guys think it will just slowly decay over the next 5 years from newly released games?
Due to completely clueless morons who have no gaming culture what so ever, WoW will probably live another 5 years easily. Otherwise, it would just start dying once War Hammer is released... Since there will be no reasons "at all" to play WoW once War is there.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
What will kill WoW is Blizzard's characteristic laziness and their utter contempt for their playerbase. It took them two years to release their first expansion and haven't even announced details on the next. They have no plan to add more classes, despite player outcry. One of the Community Managers (I think it was Tseric, who is no longer there) said that new classes were not needed because they have the basic party occupations already covered. This indicates a real loss of creativity in the development teams. Blizzard developers have a notoriously short attention span and have a hard time staying on task unless Vivendi threatens them. WoW was rushed to release because of this. From what I saw during that time, the game was done months prior, but the release marketing had to be hastily put together to meet the deadline set by Vivendi. Why else would they stick nothing but a paperback book that had been out for months in their pre-sell boxes? Blizzard was too busy with their "Friends and Family" playing their game that they didn't care if it ever released as long as the checks kept coming. Frankly, I think Blizzard's only remaining interest in World of Warcraft is cash. There's no creativity left. Look for more raid dungeons and useless trinkets, but nothing of any substance. So much potential wasted.
You are one of the few people worth reading on this forum. I salute you
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
WoW still has a lot of life left in it. Personally, I am guessing 2 more expansions over the next 4 years before it really starts to show signs of serious suffering.
Currently there is no competition out there that looks compelling enough to actually destroy it, but one day that MMORPG will come. By that time, however, Blizzard may well be on it's way to delivering a WoW II.
I simply can't believe how stupid some of you can be. 60% of players quitting by next summe!? If aliens come and pew pew us ...maybe
AFTER 2 years + I still come to these boards to read "THE DEATH OF WOW THREADS". Some people here clearly have no clue about the mmorpg market. The only thing that makes wow different from the rest of the crowd of mmo'ish games is the fact that it works for the targeted audience. Numbers don't lie. Im simply shocked after reading some of the reply's here. WoW will die ...that's a fact ...but lemme ask you : WHAT DOESN'T?...
Get some common sense before posting..........your stupid conspiracy theories
A game with as many subscribers as WoW is going to take a number of years to die. However, the question that I want to see answered is, how steep will be the drop off?
I think that a lot of WoWs future rests on the next expansion. If Blizzard can produce a good expansion in a timely manner, I believe that WoW will be in great shape. However, if the next expansion takes too long or is rubbish, I think you may see a pretty sharp drop off in the number of WoW subscribers.
"Those who dislike things based only on the fact that they are popular are just as shallow and superficial as those who only like them for the same reason."
Originally posted by SWGLover I think a slow and gradual decay will be the swan song of WoW, unless they make a bone headed mistake. Nothing on the horizon is going to challenge them as most of the upcoming titles are pvp games that will have a rapid growth with a just as rapid decline as players grow sick of the problems associated with pvp ( think about it.....pvp servers in games are *always* the smallest population servers )
Except then in WoW, where the PvP servers are by far the most popular. ( just counted the european english realms, thats 63 pvp servers and 33 pve servers )
So in the most popular mmorpg people choose the PvP servers the most, still you say "pvp servers in games are *always* the smallest population servers" ?
People want PvP, it's just that no one is giving it to them on a mmorpg scale.
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
"and if he dies, he dies." line from rocky 4. same thing for wow. when it dies it will die and thats it. you dont really need to think too much about it.
WoW will only start to decline the day that Blizzard releases their second MMO. I am sure that if there are very good and popular MMOs that are released, it would have an impact. Right now, only Blizzard can bring about the downfall of WoW.
A lot of people still play Diablo 1 and 2, Starcraft, and Warcraft. WoW won't be going anywhere, its going to evolve.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I think there has been quite a growth of new players even going on now which ensures that even WoW loses subscribers it still manages to grow. But undoubtably there will come a point where the new players will start trailing off, they will still come- afterall there are new players now still playing wc3 but the rate of new players will be slowed. At this time, the retention will be more key to maintaining their subscribers. Whether that point has come, who knows. But you can take a guess with WoW's next expansion that their priority will be retention and bringing back ex-subscribers back to the game -which incidentally their new expansion details should be announced soon at the Blizzcon or whatever.
WoW I don't think will really decline for a bit yet especially with their new expansion coming. How long will it take for all current owners of WoW to buy that expansion? That could be a year or two- in which time, another expansion could be out. WoW should be fine for a few years yet.
I don't think WoW will fall anytime soon, but I do see the number of subscribers start dropping. Especially with newer MMO's coming out. I already heard of whole guilds quitting and moving on to something different. It will always be around, but they won't have the customer base like it did in the beginning. I personnally don't like it, but it will be around longer than some people think.
obviously not in the very near future, but what is everones oppinion on when WoW will finally die its inevitable death? i know WoW fanboys like to think it will be around forever, but every mmo fails one day. Will it be a sudden death brought on by an expansion which makes all the million hours you've farmed and raided for nothing ( TOA for Daoc), or by introducing a key feature which conflicts with the values of the game ( Trammel for UO) of do you guys think it will just slowly decay over the next 5 years from newly released games?
You mention UO and trammel .......yest it still thrives today. If that is any indication of how WOW will end up .....I would say this game will be around and people still playing untill Blizzard decides to pull the plug a decades or 2 from now. Yes the millions will leave soon enough, but this game will never be truely dead as many would hope.
I'm sure the Warcraft franchise will be around in one form or another 20 years from now, but WoW, if it exists at all, will be little more than a pastime for nostalgic hobbyists. You'll always have the eccentrics who boot up Ultima II for kicks or pop E.T. into the 2600 they bought off ebay. Individual games just do not have that long a lifespan. A good book will always be a good book, a good movie will always be a good movie, and good music will always be good music, but the same does not apply to videogames because they are too reliant on the technological limitations of their day. What was revolutionary twenty years ago is old hat now. Just take a look at the games that were huge in 1987: Double Dragon, Contra, Castevania, Megaman. Undoubtedly, these games had a great impact on the videogame industry, but kids aren't queuing up to play them anymore. Smart companies continue to link their IPs to quality games, and I'm sure Vivendi will be sure to do this with WoW. I mean, they've got a goldmine on their hands despite the grumbling of self-proclaimed "hardcore" gamers on forums like this one. But the new, as yet unimagined ways we will interact with our PCs and the capabilities they will have five to ten years down the line ensures that WoW--along with ANY MMORPG on the market currently--will be little more than a relic not too far down the line.
I simply can't believe how stupid some of you can be. 60% of players quitting by next summe!? If aliens come and pew pew us ...maybe
AFTER 2 years + I still come to these boards to read "THE DEATH OF WOW THREADS". Some people here clearly have no clue about the mmorpg market. The only thing that makes wow different from the rest of the crowd of mmo'ish games is the fact that it works for the targeted audience. Numbers don't lie. Im simply shocked after reading some of the reply's here. WoW will die ...that's a fact ...but lemme ask you : WHAT DOESN'T?...
Get some common sense before posting..........your stupid conspiracy theories
care to talk bout 9/11 ....anyone ???
Besides the fact that 9/11 was a plot that the terrorists created...
WoW can not fall it will never fall, the fans that love the warcraft name alone will never allow wall to fall, WoW will never fall under a 2 million player base WoW will never fall under a million playerbase and that may justu be in the US alone. WoW is still one of the better games out and all these games that were supposed to kill WoW couldnt do it.
I use to play WoW not any more but we will be dead before WoW dies and even if WoW dies a diablo or starcraft mmo would scoop right in. Bassically blizzard will always be the king of mmorpgs and there will be no stopping blizzard. when it comes to PC games blizzard is the best at what it does.
soon i hope, but i think for the next 10 years or so they will have some form of game around which will pull in numbers similar to what old games like eq1 are doing now. the subs are so high 8 million or so, theres going to be a lot of people who will have nostalgic reasons to play the game, even if the gameplay is terrible to newer games theres something about your first mmo.
saying that blizzard could still keep up with newer games for a while, an engine and graphics retool of the game are possible or some form of kingdom/battlekeep building, and a steady supply of game expansions. i think a lot depends on war, its very similar stylistically to wow and many wow gamers will feel at home and be willing to switch and its appealing to similar player or at least the younger/teen demographic with its cartoony stylings. aoc too but i suspect the m rating and high system requirements mean it wont be a massive drain on the wow population, as it caters to more mature audience.
i see wow still dominating for next 2-3 years, and possibly war and aoc being close runners up. for something to knock it off its perch it would have to have the mainstream appeal, whereas all im seeing as upcoming releases are more niche mmo's. who knows though, i dont think anyone expepected wow to be such a hit so something could come out of the blue. or blizzard might announce warcraft 2 or something and people will hang around in wow till the next one comes out for that to dominate, i hope not for me wow is like any other junk mainstream media, action flicks /cruddy radio pop music /lame tv. people just seem to like it becuase for the most part people are stupid and dont want to look for something with more depth, or all they hear is wow wow wow so they play figuring 8 millions subscribers cant be wrong.
Comments
Wikipedia aside, if you check Vivendi's corporate site, you will find that Blizzard is listed under Vivendi Games as a division of Vivendi Games. In fact, while WoW was still under development, Vivendi was casting around looking for a buyer for Blizzard. They're probably glad they decided not to sell since WoW pulled a sinking division into the black. That said, it's safe to assume that the lion's share of WoW profits are going into Vivendi coffers. Blizzard is given a budget from that, just like any other subsidiary. In other words, they only get what Vivendi gives them.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
But what will kill it is the big difference between hardcore and casual gamers, before tbc the difference between the hardcore and casual gamers was getting so big and hardcore people had trouble finding people to raid with them cause none was except themselves were really at their level, and the casuals had to way of getting to the hardcore gamers level..
Then blizzard kinda reseted the game by raising the lvl cap and making all current gear almost useless in lvl 70... and that worked out for a while aswell, but now the gasp is getting to big again cause the hardcores are to hardcore and kill anything blizzard makes in a few weeks, while the more casual gamers are years behind in progress..
And blizzard cant just stop making content for the hardcore people, so the gasp between hardcore and casuals will just grow..
One of the other problems with the raids in general is that there is a limit to how hard you can make the encounters, pre-tbc raiding was kinda new for alot of people and in Naxxramas blizzard made alot of new special fights with new mechanics, but now they just kinda used them all.. they cant make anything new, it will just be more and more of the same..
Khanstruct - I don't agree that WoW hasn't changed how much it costs to develop an MMORPG, not at all. WoW raised the quality bar by a fairly large margin. To compete with it, other MMORPGs need to be of similar quality and offer unique features. This means graphics at least as good (which, despite WoW's low poly count, is actually quite a high standard), a decent, well-tested interface, a relatively bug-free launch, gameplay that is well-tested and basically fun, and so on.
So I think it costs a hell of a lot more now to develop an MMORPG successfully than it did when, say, Dark Age of Camelot was released. An example of this, to me, is Vanguard - they ran out of money, yet as I understand it, the amount spent on the game was significantly more than EQ2, and I don't think this was just a case of financial mismangement - as games become more complex, and require better testing, as players become more demanding (particularly mass-market players), costs rise. Vanguard sold well over 100k copies initially (according to it's developer), and yet I don't think anyone could call it a hit. DDO sold more copies still, yet is considered a dismal failure even with 50k+ subs remaining.
Maybe the change from a standard $9.99/month to $14.99/month covers this increase in costs, but I don't think so.
So I think WoW has changed how much it costs to develop an MMORPG, and thus changed what is required to be regarded as a "success".
Otherwise, I tend to agree. Interesting point about SC2 leading to a "Galaxy of Starcraft". To be honest, I'll believe it when I see it. No doubt Blizzard is saving the announcement of any future MMORPG products for when it will cause most damage to competitors (or at least most advantage to Blizzard).
Don't hold your breath. There are 9- and 10-year old MMOs still being played. WoW won't always have 8 million players, and its subscription dropoff may be rapid given the sheer number of people currently playing, but it's not goign anywhere anytime soon. For any game, there are always a couple hundred thousand who think it's the best ever, and no game can possibly compete with their favorite.
I remember at one time Everquest broke 500,000 concurrent users online and it was considered a smashing success... nowadays I think probably about 50,000 - 75,000 players still play to keep the game going. Heck I have online friends that I met since 1999 in EQ that still plays EQ nowadays altho its more of an on and off thing.
Due to completely clueless morons who have no gaming culture what so ever, WoW will probably live another 5 years easily. Otherwise, it would just start dying once War Hammer is released... Since there will be no reasons "at all" to play WoW once War is there.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You are one of the few people worth reading on this forum. I salute you
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
When will people stop playing Diablo II? Take that date and add about 10 years to it. That's my estimate of when WoW will die.
WoW still has a lot of life left in it. Personally, I am guessing 2 more expansions over the next 4 years before it really starts to show signs of serious suffering.
Currently there is no competition out there that looks compelling enough to actually destroy it, but one day that MMORPG will come. By that time, however, Blizzard may well be on it's way to delivering a WoW II.
I simply can't believe how stupid some of you can be. 60% of players quitting by next summe!? If aliens come and pew pew us ...maybe
AFTER 2 years + I still come to these boards to read "THE DEATH OF WOW THREADS". Some people here clearly have no clue about the mmorpg market. The only thing that makes wow different from the rest of the crowd of mmo'ish games is the fact that it works for the targeted audience. Numbers don't lie. Im simply shocked after reading some of the reply's here. WoW will die ...that's a fact ...but lemme ask you : WHAT DOESN'T?...
Get some common sense before posting..........your stupid conspiracy theories
care to talk bout 9/11 ....anyone ???
A game with as many subscribers as WoW is going to take a number of years to die. However, the question that I want to see answered is, how steep will be the drop off?
I think that a lot of WoWs future rests on the next expansion. If Blizzard can produce a good expansion in a timely manner, I believe that WoW will be in great shape. However, if the next expansion takes too long or is rubbish, I think you may see a pretty sharp drop off in the number of WoW subscribers.
"Those who dislike things based only on the fact that they are popular are just as shallow and superficial as those who only like them for the same reason."
Except then in WoW, where the PvP servers are by far the most popular. ( just counted the european english realms, thats 63 pvp servers and 33 pve servers )
So in the most popular mmorpg people choose the PvP servers the most, still you say "pvp servers in games are *always* the smallest population servers" ?
People want PvP, it's just that no one is giving it to them on a mmorpg scale.
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
"and if he dies, he dies." line from rocky 4. same thing for wow. when it dies it will die and thats it. you dont really need to think too much about it.
bottom line. who cares?
WoW will only start to decline the day that Blizzard releases their second MMO. I am sure that if there are very good and popular MMOs that are released, it would have an impact. Right now, only Blizzard can bring about the downfall of WoW.
WoW will be around for a good 20 years at least.
A lot of people still play Diablo 1 and 2, Starcraft, and Warcraft. WoW won't be going anywhere, its going to evolve.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I think there has been quite a growth of new players even going on now which ensures that even WoW loses subscribers it still manages to grow. But undoubtably there will come a point where the new players will start trailing off, they will still come- afterall there are new players now still playing wc3 but the rate of new players will be slowed. At this time, the retention will be more key to maintaining their subscribers. Whether that point has come, who knows. But you can take a guess with WoW's next expansion that their priority will be retention and bringing back ex-subscribers back to the game -which incidentally their new expansion details should be announced soon at the Blizzcon or whatever.
WoW I don't think will really decline for a bit yet especially with their new expansion coming. How long will it take for all current owners of WoW to buy that expansion? That could be a year or two- in which time, another expansion could be out. WoW should be fine for a few years yet.
I don't think WoW will fall anytime soon, but I do see the number of subscribers start dropping. Especially with newer MMO's coming out. I already heard of whole guilds quitting and moving on to something different. It will always be around, but they won't have the customer base like it did in the beginning. I personnally don't like it, but it will be around longer than some people think.
You mention UO and trammel .......yest it still thrives today. If that is any indication of how WOW will end up .....I would say this game will be around and people still playing untill Blizzard decides to pull the plug a decades or 2 from now. Yes the millions will leave soon enough, but this game will never be truely dead as many would hope.
I'm sure the Warcraft franchise will be around in one form or another 20 years from now, but WoW, if it exists at all, will be little more than a pastime for nostalgic hobbyists. You'll always have the eccentrics who boot up Ultima II for kicks or pop E.T. into the 2600 they bought off ebay. Individual games just do not have that long a lifespan. A good book will always be a good book, a good movie will always be a good movie, and good music will always be good music, but the same does not apply to videogames because they are too reliant on the technological limitations of their day. What was revolutionary twenty years ago is old hat now. Just take a look at the games that were huge in 1987: Double Dragon, Contra, Castevania, Megaman. Undoubtedly, these games had a great impact on the videogame industry, but kids aren't queuing up to play them anymore. Smart companies continue to link their IPs to quality games, and I'm sure Vivendi will be sure to do this with WoW. I mean, they've got a goldmine on their hands despite the grumbling of self-proclaimed "hardcore" gamers on forums like this one. But the new, as yet unimagined ways we will interact with our PCs and the capabilities they will have five to ten years down the line ensures that WoW--along with ANY MMORPG on the market currently--will be little more than a relic not too far down the line.
Besides the fact that 9/11 was a plot that the terrorists created...
I couldn't agree with you more.
WoW can not fall it will never fall, the fans that love the warcraft name alone will never allow wall to fall, WoW will never fall under a 2 million player base WoW will never fall under a million playerbase and that may justu be in the US alone. WoW is still one of the better games out and all these games that were supposed to kill WoW couldnt do it.
I use to play WoW not any more but we will be dead before WoW dies and even if WoW dies a diablo or starcraft mmo would scoop right in. Bassically blizzard will always be the king of mmorpgs and there will be no stopping blizzard. when it comes to PC games blizzard is the best at what it does.
Like I've said before some company other than Blizzard would have to develop some pretty amazing technology to knock them down.
soon i hope, but i think for the next 10 years or so they will have some form of game around which will pull in numbers similar to what old games like eq1 are doing now. the subs are so high 8 million or so, theres going to be a lot of people who will have nostalgic reasons to play the game, even if the gameplay is terrible to newer games theres something about your first mmo.
saying that blizzard could still keep up with newer games for a while, an engine and graphics retool of the game are possible or some form of kingdom/battlekeep building, and a steady supply of game expansions. i think a lot depends on war, its very similar stylistically to wow and many wow gamers will feel at home and be willing to switch and its appealing to similar player or at least the younger/teen demographic with its cartoony stylings. aoc too but i suspect the m rating and high system requirements mean it wont be a massive drain on the wow population, as it caters to more mature audience.
i see wow still dominating for next 2-3 years, and possibly war and aoc being close runners up. for something to knock it off its perch it would have to have the mainstream appeal, whereas all im seeing as upcoming releases are more niche mmo's. who knows though, i dont think anyone expepected wow to be such a hit so something could come out of the blue. or blizzard might announce warcraft 2 or something and people will hang around in wow till the next one comes out for that to dominate, i hope not for me wow is like any other junk mainstream media, action flicks /cruddy radio pop music /lame tv. people just seem to like it becuase for the most part people are stupid and dont want to look for something with more depth, or all they hear is wow wow wow so they play figuring 8 millions subscribers cant be wrong.