one thing I can never figure out. usually when you see a topic about LOTRO or some other PVE based MMO people can have a meaningful discussion.
But when someone starts a topic asking for Sandbox / hardcore PVP people have a fit. or you guys afraid to see us get our own MMO this bad? I mean, you got a ton of PVE based MMOs why be so afraid of something new coming out?
Are you afraid a Game Developer will see the one hardcore PVP post and your world as you know it will end?
I admit we are seeing a gradual move towards PVP- even Age of Conan says they want a Hardcore FFA PVP Server and Pirates will have hardcore PVP. And there is EVE which is hella fun. But still why the panic lol? I mean, its not like every MMORPG has gone hardcore? edit- to be specific when I say risk PVP I mean death penalties of some sort to encourage fights that really end whereas ppl dont just keep respawning over and over like they're immortal gods or something. just some penalty like item decay / durability hits, etc.
Because deep down they are too afraid to grow a set and play a PVP MMO, and in their sub-conscience guilt flame away at those that do have a set.
okay something funny happened today. I was going to let this topic die but this was the worst of all.
There was a guy that pretended to be a risk PVPer. He said I didnt have a clue about risk PVP. So I ask what risk PVP games is he playing now. no response. but he said check his forum history because he is on our side.
I find many comments like this:
"Wow (World Of Warcraft) is currently the best, at least for me."
okay there is nothing wrong with loving WoW I have coworkers that play. but I do not think its' right to act like you're on our side but then troll those of us that simply want more options / games to play.
edit- he also made claims about FFA PVP ganker paradise in the UO forums and other places. was just insane I cant believe that people would go that far to toss salt on posts. I guess I should have reported him too my bad
okay something funny happened today. I was going to let this topic die but this was the worst of all.
There was a guy that pretended to be a risk PVPer. He said I didnt have a clue about risk PVP. So I ask what risk PVP games is he playing now. no response. but he said check his forum history because he is on our side.
I find many comments like this: "Wow (World Of Warcraft) is currently the best, at least for me." okay there is nothing wrong with loving WoW I have coworkers that play. but I do not think its' right to act like you're on our side but then troll those of us that simply want more options / games to play. edit- he also made claims about FFA PVP ganker paradise in the UO forums and other places. was just insane I cant believe that people would go that far to toss salt on posts. I guess I should have reported him too my bad
Dude, get over yourself, seriously.
I didn't respond to that post again because you can't debate worth beans, and it gets boring explaining things to you.
Where in the world did I say that "I was on your side?" I will play DarkFall for pvp ( if it comes out, a big maybe ) but by pointing out the problems with pvp imbalance in UO I guess I become a "pretend risk pvper"?
I've played Eve, but found it boring. I played DAoC for 3 1/2 years.
I think I explained low risk/high reward ganking pretty well in the UO thread, it's been the same discussion that went on and on by the third month UO was live. You seem to conviently forget that stuff, or were you actually playing the game back then?
Sorry that you view is the only correct one and that there is no room for different shades of pvp or pve.
Please. feel free to report me if you think I'm trolling, it seems that you can't handle another opinion
I'm not always right by a longshot but I dont like it when people act like they're down for risk PVP challenge me to check they're forum history and I find all kinds of negative risk PVP comments like:
"UO PVP sucked I couldnt wait to go to EQ" - UO forum
"Wow is the best game ever"
"I seriously doubt if Darkfall is ever coming out" - DF forums
"Wow has no death penalties blah blah" - that's fine but I find it fun a permadeath proponent would say such a thing?
"instances are so awesome protects us from griefers"
hm... I just want people to be honest and upfront. no lies, no misleads
I'm not always right by a longshot but I dont like it when people act like they're down for risk PVP challenge me to check they're forum history and I find all kinds of negative risk PVP comments like: "UO PVP sucked I couldnt wait to go to EQ" - UO forum "Wow is the best game ever" "I seriously doubt if Darkfall is ever coming out" - DF forums "Wow has no death penalties blah blah" - that's fine but I find it fun a permadeath proponent would say such a thing? "instances are so awesome protects us from griefers"
hm... I just want people to be honest and upfront. no lies, no misleads
Well, you don't bother to print any of the quotes that would have backed me for playing pvp as that doesn't fit your style now, does it?
I think that I've explained my dislike of 5 on 1 no-risk ganking ( hardly pvp as there is *zero* risk to the gankers ) in Uo just fine in the UO thread. And i was one of the first 100 beta testers of EQ, so I would have been crazy not to go there, that was a lucky break for me.
I do doubt that DF will come out ( and I posted reasons for my doubts, I'm certainly not alone in thinking that, am I?,) but I'll play it if it does.
Wow *is* the best game ever ( so far, although I enjoyed DAoC more ) - it works, and that's rare in a MMO. I struggled through bug feasts in various games and I'm picky about my games now. I don't have time for time-wasting travel ( ala EVE ) or time sinks like corpse runs in the old EQ. Is WOW perfect? Of course not! But until another game comes out with the features that work as well as WOW, I'm stucj with it.
Don't confuse my desire for perma-death as the ultimate "hard-core" feature with my pointing out that WOW has little if no death penalties - against, I am not looking for time wasting features.
But perma-death if done right changes *everything* and everyone that mutters the word "hardcore" should embrace it - I would.
Instances? Again, back to the 5 on 1 insta-death gank at every dungeon entrance in UO. I have no problem seperating pvp from exploration or pve grinding. And if pvp makes exploration *impossible*, the fun factors goes down for *most* people. Including me.
The pvp servers on DAoC were a good example of this - I saw the pvp severs on DAoC die a sad death because nobody could group long enough to do those stupid ML's.
I hope this explains it well enough, but frankly you're manipulating what I write to further your view anyhow, so who cares...
I'm not always right by a longshot but I dont like it when people act like they're down for risk PVP challenge me to check they're forum history and I find all kinds of negative risk PVP comments like: "UO PVP sucked I couldnt wait to go to EQ" - UO forum UO PvP did suck. That's why I played Flight sims, first person shooters, and (I believe the online multiplayer gold edition was out then) Civ 2. UO just didn't compare to other experiences that were available at that time. "Wow is the best game ever" That may be pure opinion, but it's certainly not a bad game. "I seriously doubt if Darkfall is ever coming out" - DF forums Most of us don't think that Darkfall is ever coming out. Doesn't mean we don't want it to come out. It just means that we've watched this game for the better part of a decade and have yet to play it in even a closed beta. That's not exactly a sign of a project's good health. "Wow has no death penalties blah blah" - that's fine but I find it fun a permadeath proponent would say such a thing? A game with permadeath has to be designed almost completely around that concept. WoW wouldn't work with it. AC and UO would need some serious tweaking before they would be to feature PD. "instances are so awesome protects us from griefers" First you claim that FFA PvPers aren't griefers, then you criticize someone for not wanting to deal with griefers. Hmm....
hm... I just want people to be honest and upfront. no lies, no misleads
The problem here is that your definition of "hardcore" isn't THE definition of "hardcore." The term seems to mean many different things to many different people. Not surprising since the term is fuckin' meaningless.
To add to that, there is nothing stopping a person from enjoying both PvE AND PvP. The whole "all or nothing" attitude is yet another reason why people despise self proclaimed "hardcore" FFA PvPers. Seriously, how narrow can you be?
look im not interested in discussing PD start your own threads about that. also never said players cant enjoy both I enjoy engaging in both in Starport and will enjoy both in EVE as well. I love it when others try to make broad assumptions and flame.
WoW! Look at all of the replies... Id like to add something else though, and thats this notion of how "true PvPrs" actually PvP in their games. Okay, there is no such thing as a "true PvPr". That notion is ludicrous. Everyone has different styles of play. Just cause one guy likes to gank people in FFA PvP doesnt make him any less than a guy who wants a good fair fight. The only thing a PvPr shares with a fellow PvPr is that they like a challenge and want to do something more than just fight computerized AI all day long. Looting is just a part of PvP'ing and something that should be viewed that enchances the experiences by giving it extra tension and risk. As to jimmy_scyth's post.....dude, what are you smoking? Seriously man, people dont like violence? People dont like conflict? ROFL. Oh man, dude, were you high when you posted this? Do I even need to explain?
this was a good post I could not state it better. the title of this topic is 'risk PVP' I'm glad you and many others understood that heh
what ive always wanted to see is a true hardcore pvp game. One rez per every 12 hours. loot everything and hack the body parts to take home to momma.
not sure if you were being serious here but I've suggested something a little similar to prevent ppl from running back into fights they cant win. it was a lot more carebear then that!
off topic-
I play regular on the Starport rebang (permadeath) server but they way that setup the whole game its very fun. I dont like for others to disucss PD because it is too broad a term and many times ppl are just trolling when they suggest such a thing. I check their forum psot history and the games they play dont have PD
I'm not always right by a longshot but I dont like it when people act like they're down for risk PVP challenge me to check they're forum history and I find all kinds of negative risk PVP comments like: "UO PVP sucked I couldnt wait to go to EQ" - UO forum "Wow is the best game ever" "I seriously doubt if Darkfall is ever coming out" - DF forums "Wow has no death penalties blah blah" - that's fine but I find it fun a permadeath proponent would say such a thing? "instances are so awesome protects us from griefers"
hm... I just want people to be honest and upfront. no lies, no misleads
Well, you don't bother to print any of the quotes that would have backed me for playing pvp as that doesn't fit your style now, does it?
I think that I've explained my dislike of 5 on 1 no-risk ganking ( hardly pvp as there is *zero* risk to the gankers ) in Uo just fine in the UO thread. And i was one of the first 100 beta testers of EQ, so I would have been crazy not to go there, that was a lucky break for me.
I do doubt that DF will come out ( and I posted reasons for my doubts, I'm certainly not alone in thinking that, am I?,) but I'll play it if it does.
Wow *is* the best game ever ( so far, although I enjoyed DAoC more ) - it works, and that's rare in a MMO. I struggled through bug feasts in various games and I'm picky about my games now. I don't have time for time-wasting travel ( ala EVE ) or time sinks like corpse runs in the old EQ. Is WOW perfect? Of course not! But until another game comes out with the features that work as well as WOW, I'm stucj with it.
Don't confuse my desire for perma-death as the ultimate "hard-core" feature with my pointing out that WOW has little if no death penalties - against, I am not looking for time wasting features.
But perma-death if done right changes *everything* and everyone that mutters the word "hardcore" should embrace it - I would.
Instances? Again, back to the 5 on 1 insta-death gank at every dungeon entrance in UO. I have no problem seperating pvp from exploration or pve grinding. And if pvp makes exploration *impossible*, the fun factors goes down for *most* people. Including me.
The pvp servers on DAoC were a good example of this - I saw the pvp severs on DAoC die a sad death because nobody could group long enough to do those stupid ML's.
I hope this explains it well enough, but frankly you're manipulating what I write to further your view anyhow, so who cares...
fine bro I can be a reasonable man
you seem to be sincere about permadeath and I agree that would be the ultimate if it could be worked in. starport has it buts its f2p made by a small team. anyway didnt want to drift too much into PD but if you're seriously down for PD then coo I like you
edit- and no i didnt quote you word for word and didnt say your name because I didnt want to make a personal attack. was trying to be abstract- "this guy said................."
The only thing a PvPr shares with a fellow PvPr is that they like a challenge and want to do something more than just fight computerized AI all day long.
That is not in my opinion full truth, it's just half truth.
I mean sure, PvPers says that is the reason, but in reality it's not. You can have as much challenge in PvE than in PvP. That is a fact.
This is because challenge is related to difficulty of the defeating the opponent, not how the opponent can avoid to be defeated .
So the real reason is:
The computer AI or lack of it's creativity is more close to truth. So, in my opinion PvPers needs the opponet to be more creative and act more surprising ways. Todays AI's are very simple and lack of abilities to do something smart and different. Npc enemies seem to be allways act same ways, as human opponent can change behaviors and learn. That's the one real reason why PvPers like human opponent more.
So todays computer AI's are the problem, but it's problem for all players, not just for PvPers. If they would make computer AI what would be better than humans, would that means end of PvP? Nope. That is because the lack of intelligent behavior isn't the only reasons, why people PvP. People are connected to they emotions, example ability get feeling to be better than some other human. That satisfaction can't achieved directly with NPC's.
So todays computer AI's are the problem, but it's problem for all players, not just for PvPers. If they would make computer AI what would be better than humans, would that means end of PvP? Nope. That is because the lack of intelligent behavior isn't the only reasons, why people PvP. People are connected to they emotions, example ability get feeling to be better than some other human. That satisfaction can't achieved directly with NPC's.
I agree, it is the AI, and if the AI would be as good as human opponents, noone would make a big difference between both, than you would really see great PvPvE Battles, where NPCs act as Humans.. but i guess we will never see it, or at least not in my lifetime.
Then you could really fill world full of intelegence inhabitants.. what glorios days.. ok, no hardware would be able to do it.. but let us dream a little bit.
And ok.. the emotions are another factor, but you could mimic emotions, if the AI would really as good. And by the way, emotional intelegence is also an important part in MMORPGs in general, and there are even some engines available, at least at a low level.
what ive always wanted to see is a true hardcore pvp game. One rez per every 12 hours. loot everything and hack the body parts to take home to momma.
Not trying to hijack the thread, but that'd be close enough to perma-death that I'd consider that "hard-core".
And play it!
actually I've realized permadeath is totally applicable to this thread. it just happens to be all the way hardcore.
it would be the ultimate to me personally even if applied to a PVE game. That way it will be the bomb if you're the only high level. it shows you have nuts of steel. you are #1.
If PVP got added to the mix would be really interesting as well too lol
I can see both sides of the fence on PD I'd like to see it more but due to the controversy and flames I usually shy away from bringing it up
but thanks I now realize PD does surely apply to risk PVP I see that argument now. will need to ponder on this further. off hand, I'd say PD would give player run bounty system a lot of meaning hehe.
A game with ffa pvp, perma death (over time) player built cities, a good number of other fuetures and Dragons as a playable race
Of course, it has been put on hold (last time I checked at least) and didn't show too much development in the 4-5 years I've follwoed it. but still, worth checking out =p
The only thing a PvPr shares with a fellow PvPr is that they like a challenge and want to do something more than just fight computerized AI all day long.
That is not in my opinion full truth, it's just half truth.
I mean sure, PvPers says that is the reason, but in reality it's not. You can have as much challenge in PvE than in PvP. That is a fact.
This is because challenge is related to difficulty of the defeating the opponent, not how the opponent can avoid to be defeated .
So the real reason is:
The computer AI or lack of it's creativity is more close to truth. So, in my opinion PvPers needs the opponet to be more creative and act more surprising ways. Todays AI's are very simple and lack of abilities to do something smart and different. Npc enemies seem to be allways act same ways, as human opponent can change behaviors and learn. That's the one real reason why PvPers like human opponent more.
So todays computer AI's are the problem, but it's problem for all players, not just for PvPers. If they would make computer AI what would be better than humans, would that means end of PvP? Nope. That is because the lack of intelligent behavior isn't the only reasons, why people PvP. People are connected to they emotions, example ability get feeling to be better than some other human. That satisfaction can't achieved directly with NPC's.
Except there's no such thing as AI in computer games, it's all just scripted shit. You would think that this is just splitting hairs, but it's not. There's a world of difference between real AI and a simple script. They could always use more advanced scripting, but why bother? 99% of PvErs seem to be happy and challenged enough with these brainless target practicing..targets we see in todays games. Instead, they just pump up the graphics because that's what makes kiddies wet their pants and mommies buy them the newest Evercrap copy.
i think it really comes down to not wanting to be griefed for something you're paying for. everyone has been griefed in one way or another, maybe not even through pvp. it happens constantly. people just want to play their game to have fun.
when these topics come up people feel like they should bash the players who want ffa pvp and bash anyone who is in favor of it because they truely dont want to ever get griefed repeatedly.
true pvp'ers dont consider getting killed in pvp being griefed. but of course we are the minority in this genre of games
Except there's no such thing as AI in computer games, it's all just scripted shit. You would think that this is just splitting hairs, but it's not. There's a world of difference between real AI and a simple script. They could always use more advanced scripting, but why bother? 99% of PvErs seem to be happy and challenged enough with these brainless target practicing..targets we see in todays games. Instead, they just pump up the graphics because that's what makes kiddies wet their pants and mommies buy them the newest Evercrap copy.
And 99% of PvPers use the same predictable maneuvers every time. They may as well be scripted - they're just reacting, and I can usually get them to do whatever I want.
Comments
Because deep down they are too afraid to grow a set and play a PVP MMO, and in their sub-conscience guilt flame away at those that do have a set.
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okay something funny happened today. I was going to let this topic die but this was the worst of all.
There was a guy that pretended to be a risk PVPer. He said I didnt have a clue about risk PVP. So I ask what risk PVP games is he playing now. no response. but he said check his forum history because he is on our side.
I find many comments like this:
"Wow (World Of Warcraft) is currently the best, at least for me."
okay there is nothing wrong with loving WoW I have coworkers that play. but I do not think its' right to act like you're on our side but then troll those of us that simply want more options / games to play.
edit- he also made claims about FFA PVP ganker paradise in the UO forums and other places. was just insane I cant believe that people would go that far to toss salt on posts. I guess I should have reported him too my bad
okay the poll has concluded 64% agree with me I am glad I am not the only one that has noticed this
Dude, get over yourself, seriously.
I didn't respond to that post again because you can't debate worth beans, and it gets boring explaining things to you.
Where in the world did I say that "I was on your side?" I will play DarkFall for pvp ( if it comes out, a big maybe ) but by pointing out the problems with pvp imbalance in UO I guess I become a "pretend risk pvper"?
I've played Eve, but found it boring. I played DAoC for 3 1/2 years.
I think I explained low risk/high reward ganking pretty well in the UO thread, it's been the same discussion that went on and on by the third month UO was live. You seem to conviently forget that stuff, or were you actually playing the game back then?
Sorry that you view is the only correct one and that there is no room for different shades of pvp or pve.
Please. feel free to report me if you think I'm trolling, it seems that you can't handle another opinion
I'm not always right by a longshot but I dont like it when people act like they're down for risk PVP challenge me to check they're forum history and I find all kinds of negative risk PVP comments like:
"UO PVP sucked I couldnt wait to go to EQ" - UO forum
"Wow is the best game ever"
"I seriously doubt if Darkfall is ever coming out" - DF forums
"Wow has no death penalties blah blah" - that's fine but I find it fun a permadeath proponent would say such a thing?
"instances are so awesome protects us from griefers"
hm... I just want people to be honest and upfront. no lies, no misleads
Well, you don't bother to print any of the quotes that would have backed me for playing pvp as that doesn't fit your style now, does it?
I think that I've explained my dislike of 5 on 1 no-risk ganking ( hardly pvp as there is *zero* risk to the gankers ) in Uo just fine in the UO thread. And i was one of the first 100 beta testers of EQ, so I would have been crazy not to go there, that was a lucky break for me.
I do doubt that DF will come out ( and I posted reasons for my doubts, I'm certainly not alone in thinking that, am I?,) but I'll play it if it does.
Wow *is* the best game ever ( so far, although I enjoyed DAoC more ) - it works, and that's rare in a MMO. I struggled through bug feasts in various games and I'm picky about my games now. I don't have time for time-wasting travel ( ala EVE ) or time sinks like corpse runs in the old EQ. Is WOW perfect? Of course not! But until another game comes out with the features that work as well as WOW, I'm stucj with it.
Don't confuse my desire for perma-death as the ultimate "hard-core" feature with my pointing out that WOW has little if no death penalties - against, I am not looking for time wasting features.
But perma-death if done right changes *everything* and everyone that mutters the word "hardcore" should embrace it - I would.
Instances? Again, back to the 5 on 1 insta-death gank at every dungeon entrance in UO. I have no problem seperating pvp from exploration or pve grinding. And if pvp makes exploration *impossible*, the fun factors goes down for *most* people. Including me.
The pvp servers on DAoC were a good example of this - I saw the pvp severs on DAoC die a sad death because nobody could group long enough to do those stupid ML's.
I hope this explains it well enough, but frankly you're manipulating what I write to further your view anyhow, so who cares...
The problem here is that your definition of "hardcore" isn't THE definition of "hardcore." The term seems to mean many different things to many different people. Not surprising since the term is fuckin' meaningless.
To add to that, there is nothing stopping a person from enjoying both PvE AND PvP. The whole "all or nothing" attitude is yet another reason why people despise self proclaimed "hardcore" FFA PvPers. Seriously, how narrow can you be?
look im not interested in discussing PD start your own threads about that. also never said players cant enjoy both I enjoy engaging in both in Starport and will enjoy both in EVE as well. I love it when others try to make broad assumptions and flame.
what ive always wanted to see is a true hardcore pvp game. One rez per every 12 hours. loot everything and hack the body parts to take home to momma.
this was a good post I could not state it better. the title of this topic is 'risk PVP' I'm glad you and many others understood that heh
off topic-
I play regular on the Starport rebang (permadeath) server but they way that setup the whole game its very fun. I dont like for others to disucss PD because it is too broad a term and many times ppl are just trolling when they suggest such a thing. I check their forum psot history and the games they play dont have PD
Well, you don't bother to print any of the quotes that would have backed me for playing pvp as that doesn't fit your style now, does it?
I think that I've explained my dislike of 5 on 1 no-risk ganking ( hardly pvp as there is *zero* risk to the gankers ) in Uo just fine in the UO thread. And i was one of the first 100 beta testers of EQ, so I would have been crazy not to go there, that was a lucky break for me.
I do doubt that DF will come out ( and I posted reasons for my doubts, I'm certainly not alone in thinking that, am I?,) but I'll play it if it does.
Wow *is* the best game ever ( so far, although I enjoyed DAoC more ) - it works, and that's rare in a MMO. I struggled through bug feasts in various games and I'm picky about my games now. I don't have time for time-wasting travel ( ala EVE ) or time sinks like corpse runs in the old EQ. Is WOW perfect? Of course not! But until another game comes out with the features that work as well as WOW, I'm stucj with it.
Don't confuse my desire for perma-death as the ultimate "hard-core" feature with my pointing out that WOW has little if no death penalties - against, I am not looking for time wasting features.
But perma-death if done right changes *everything* and everyone that mutters the word "hardcore" should embrace it - I would.
Instances? Again, back to the 5 on 1 insta-death gank at every dungeon entrance in UO. I have no problem seperating pvp from exploration or pve grinding. And if pvp makes exploration *impossible*, the fun factors goes down for *most* people. Including me.
The pvp servers on DAoC were a good example of this - I saw the pvp severs on DAoC die a sad death because nobody could group long enough to do those stupid ML's.
I hope this explains it well enough, but frankly you're manipulating what I write to further your view anyhow, so who cares...
fine bro I can be a reasonable man
you seem to be sincere about permadeath and I agree that would be the ultimate if it could be worked in. starport has it buts its f2p made by a small team. anyway didnt want to drift too much into PD but if you're seriously down for PD then coo I like you
edit- and no i didnt quote you word for word and didnt say your name because I didnt want to make a personal attack. was trying to be abstract- "this guy said................."
That is not in my opinion full truth, it's just half truth.
I mean sure, PvPers says that is the reason, but in reality it's not. You can have as much challenge in PvE than in PvP. That is a fact.
This is because challenge is related to difficulty of the defeating the opponent, not how the opponent can avoid to be defeated .
So the real reason is:
The computer AI or lack of it's creativity is more close to truth. So, in my opinion PvPers needs the opponet to be more creative and act more surprising ways. Todays AI's are very simple and lack of abilities to do something smart and different. Npc enemies seem to be allways act same ways, as human opponent can change behaviors and learn. That's the one real reason why PvPers like human opponent more.
So todays computer AI's are the problem, but it's problem for all players, not just for PvPers. If they would make computer AI what would be better than humans, would that means end of PvP? Nope. That is because the lack of intelligent behavior isn't the only reasons, why people PvP. People are connected to they emotions, example ability get feeling to be better than some other human. That satisfaction can't achieved directly with NPC's.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
I agree, it is the AI, and if the AI would be as good as human opponents, noone would make a big difference between both, than you would really see great PvPvE Battles, where NPCs act as Humans.. but i guess we will never see it, or at least not in my lifetime.
Then you could really fill world full of intelegence inhabitants.. what glorios days.. ok, no hardware would be able to do it.. but let us dream a little bit.
And ok.. the emotions are another factor, but you could mimic emotions, if the AI would really as good. And by the way, emotional intelegence is also an important part in MMORPGs in general, and there are even some engines available, at least at a low level.
you can make AI really good but it is not the same as interacting with real human players and making a "name" for yourself in that virtual world.
I suppose it cant hurt to have both smart AI and maximize player interaction though!
Not trying to hijack the thread, but that'd be close enough to perma-death that I'd consider that "hard-core".
And play it!
Because they can.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
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An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Not trying to hijack the thread, but that'd be close enough to perma-death that I'd consider that "hard-core".
And play it!
actually I've realized permadeath is totally applicable to this thread. it just happens to be all the way hardcore.it would be the ultimate to me personally even if applied to a PVE game. That way it will be the bomb if you're the only high level. it shows you have nuts of steel. you are #1.
If PVP got added to the mix would be really interesting as well too lol
I can see both sides of the fence on PD I'd like to see it more but due to the controversy and flames I usually shy away from bringing it up
but thanks I now realize PD does surely apply to risk PVP I see that argument now. will need to ponder on this further. off hand, I'd say PD would give player run bounty system a lot of meaning hehe.
vaj, check this out: shadowpool.com
A game with ffa pvp, perma death (over time) player built cities, a good number of other fuetures and Dragons as a playable race
Of course, it has been put on hold (last time I checked at least) and didn't show too much development in the 4-5 years I've follwoed it. but still, worth checking out =p
i like pvp. i just hate greifers that get into groups then you have griefer groups going around killing people totally ruining the gaming experience.
Everything Happens For A Reason! "Shadowziel"
That is not in my opinion full truth, it's just half truth.
I mean sure, PvPers says that is the reason, but in reality it's not. You can have as much challenge in PvE than in PvP. That is a fact.
This is because challenge is related to difficulty of the defeating the opponent, not how the opponent can avoid to be defeated .
So the real reason is:
The computer AI or lack of it's creativity is more close to truth. So, in my opinion PvPers needs the opponet to be more creative and act more surprising ways. Todays AI's are very simple and lack of abilities to do something smart and different. Npc enemies seem to be allways act same ways, as human opponent can change behaviors and learn. That's the one real reason why PvPers like human opponent more.
So todays computer AI's are the problem, but it's problem for all players, not just for PvPers. If they would make computer AI what would be better than humans, would that means end of PvP? Nope. That is because the lack of intelligent behavior isn't the only reasons, why people PvP. People are connected to they emotions, example ability get feeling to be better than some other human. That satisfaction can't achieved directly with NPC's.
Except there's no such thing as AI in computer games, it's all just scripted shit. You would think that this is just splitting hairs, but it's not. There's a world of difference between real AI and a simple script. They could always use more advanced scripting, but why bother? 99% of PvErs seem to be happy and challenged enough with these brainless target practicing..targets we see in todays games. Instead, they just pump up the graphics because that's what makes kiddies wet their pants and mommies buy them the newest Evercrap copy.
ndpunch is right there is very, very few console / PC games that have true cutting edge AI
edit- I didnt pickup that latest game, S.T.A.L.K.E.R that had it but tha tlooked interesting. I heard it had sandbox elements like that
i think it really comes down to not wanting to be griefed for something you're paying for. everyone has been griefed in one way or another, maybe not even through pvp. it happens constantly. people just want to play their game to have fun.
when these topics come up people feel like they should bash the players who want ffa pvp and bash anyone who is in favor of it because they truely dont want to ever get griefed repeatedly.
true pvp'ers dont consider getting killed in pvp being griefed. but of course we are the minority in this genre of games
And 99% of PvPers use the same predictable maneuvers every time. They may as well be scripted - they're just reacting, and I can usually get them to do whatever I want.