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A fellow forum writer sends me a message...
chaintm
Member UncommonPosts: 953
*changed title to reflect more of this post , it's not a war flame fest, look at this whole thread for what it is, a dicussion thnx*
I am posting this because I received a private message about why I really don't want to be in AOC if I was a DAOC fan and Warhammer is were I should go. Needless to say this argument goes on and on with many fans of both games. I am posting this to show my response and maybe enlighten a few people on why (people like me) I don't like were Warhammer is headed and why I have found interest in AOC. No names are given because this is not the reason of this post. Enjoy...
A private message from a DAOC fan,
"Man i will say this to you m8.AOC is a PVE game first and foremost and PVP was an after though to keep up with WAR.If you played DAOC why the hell are you asking about AOC lol.WAR is a real RVR-PVP game where from the very off you are thrown into a war.There is KNOW RVR in AOC lol no realm v realm game play its just guild vguild fort forts and rresorces.Nothing you do in the boarder kingdoms effects the main game as its all PVE.
As anyone on the forums if they have EVER seen a GVG-PVP AOC vid? A game that is 3 months form going gold but has not onbe vid to prove the shit they are saying?.
WAR is where its at m8 and if you like DAOC(the best pvp-rvr yet) then you will love war.Dont let people tell you its like WOW becuse its NOT,if anything its like DAOC.
WAR IS COMING..."
My Response,
Well after even more given info today on that thread, I have to say I see this a darn close representation of daoc rvr. While Warhammer will have such (for obvious reasons), Warhammer (and I am a huggggee fan of the miniatures version) will be WOW. Aye, I know you hate to probably hear that comparison.
I was on the newsletter sense they started it. Each update I read was more and more just like WOW. While WOW (warcraft in general) was a stolen concept of Warhammer, it is after all what Warhammer will be with a bit more emphases on the rvr which is great! Don't take me wrong here, but along with the all to familiar look and feel of WOW. Warhammer will also bring the WOW fanbots aboard. Sadly, I don't think I could deal with that maturity level again that WOW subscribers brought to that game.
It will be kiddie haven and allot of us know it, probably even you. Will I let a bunch of kids dictate my choices? Not really, but they do add to the final choice. I am also a life-time member of LOTRO, great game, really no pvp other then monster vs player (which is fun btw ), but in the end I like that game for a whole other reason, the lore.
I get why you messaged me, I was there awhile ago about Warhammer, but as time goes on and the more I read on that particular title, the screen shots etc, it all say's WOW to me. God knows that has been beat'n to death all over these and other forums on that matter. But if it is said so much, there has to be some valid points there.
So this brings me to looking for the next best thing, and Conan (which I am a fan of the series) looks fantastic overall. Might not be the "perfect" game I would like , but seems very fun and after reading allot more follow up post on the pvp. I think there is enough there to keep me going. Finally the combat vids I have seen are really impressive, at first I thought eh, not so great, but with the better vid release it looks fantastic! One other note, the horse animation is top notch, It is the first time I seen a horse that looks and acts like a horse. As simple as that little detail is, it is obvious the dev team put allot of detail efforts into this project.
Well that was my response to an old DAOC player now Warhammer fan, I get why allot of people like the concept of that game, but sorry fans, as much as it is said over and over and over again (for very valid reasons) Warhammer online is a clone and nothing more. Warhammer the miniatures and PnP are Warhammer, the online version is Warcraft Online and nothing will change that fact. Sure, following an accepted concept that obviously works is a safe bet, but in the end, it is the exact same thing. Instance pvp and some open land of rvr.
My 2 cents.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Comments
i think his point about it being 3 months away from release and no change is a good one tho.
My blog:
What you really should have done was delete that message and forget anything said in it, because as soon as the rush hour starts on the forums here it's gunna be a flame war central in this thread. I'm not being an asshole, but WaR and AoC fans have enough hate on each other as it is. Both sides can be accused of spreading hate,and it'll take time and healing for that hate to go away, but do you really need to keep rubbing salt on the already burning wounds?
i think AoC would own WAR ^^
the brutal graphic
the battle system....
etc... ^^
ooo and it already starts.
If you think the game is only Instanced PvP, I don't see where you get that. Sure the game has instances, but there are at least 3-4 other ways to take over a zone. Not to mention that everything you do from PvE quests, to RvR quests (quests where your goal is to kill PCs not NPCs) helps take over zones.
I just don't remember taking over zones in WoW, so your reason for why it became more like WoW to you would be very helpful in your claim that it is a WoW clone?
(This is no intention to flame, I just really would like to know the reasons and motivations behind a claim like that.)
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Aye I thought that too, I went to IGN and checked out the latest vids, there were a few games such as LOTRO that added monster vs player pvp later and no vids on that was given till near the end. While I am the biggest skeptic (look at my post about POTBS or DF for that matter) on games, everything I have read so far sounds great. You have to at a point go on what is read and discussed. Even WOW had it's issues about not revealing ideas till the end. However not like other titles, this one is actually being released and so far from what I have seen in the last few days and posting from the fan-base on questions I had, it looks like it's the one for me.
I have no argument to the fact there is no physical info about the pvp, but then again I see that in allot of titles leaving out details that some would consider very important. The difference for me thou is again, this project is being released and has a great look and feel to the combat. What really sold me on the whole thing? Was the point were I watched a video and seen a horse moving around. While that might seem somewhat odd to judge a game on, I can say if the details of that along with the landscape in those vids are any indication of the depth of detail this dev team has dedicated. I am in with no question.
Others even are knocking the devs for promoting violence and more. This is of course the point of what this game is based on, Conan. As any semi fan can agree the world is not buttercups and lemonade., it is violent, rude and not a great place to live in a real world environment. It is a world of war, back stabbers, robbers, rapes and more. No this is no kids game that's for sure. But the lore is this and very non-politically correct. I don't doubt in the future we will see this title mentioned in some other government forum showing Conan as an example of why video games are bad.
But again to the point, information not given on certain topics are a given in any developed game. While they might have added these ideas near the end. They did give it thought (IE level cap differs from pvp to pve) and added a descent amount of info about it. Videos would be nice, but prove nothing about this particular subject. I have seen Warhammer videos showing in game combat pve and pvp , both of which look exactly the same. So got me what I would want to see that I havn't yet, most pvp is just like pve except for the obvious player going against me and not some random mob.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Am I the only one who thinks that these "my game will own your game olololol" debates are pretty pathetic?
its a frigg'n computer game...grow up, arent there more important things to get worked up over? A lot of people here seem like religious extremists in the way they see games and call fans of other games names and such, laughable, really...
It would definitely be nice if Funcom was more forthcoming with information. Mythic has done a excellent job of keeping up the hype for their product and hype is an important factor for a successful launch.
My stance in regards to the AOC vs WAR debate is on the fence. They are both going to be outstanding games and I plan to play both of them. I might eventually find that one or the other is more to my liking and at that time I will choose to discontinue the other, but you will not catch me whipping myself into a frenzy and joining the horde of players that choose to take sides in a false pixel battle based only on the information that developers have fed us about games that are not even released yet.
Developers stretch the truth, they hype their product. It is their job to make potential customers believe that their product is the next best thing since sliced bread. I have read any information I can find about upcoming game titles and like what I am seeing so far with both.
I have read so many posts here about why one is better than the other or why one game is not worth playing, etc. but really guys...
if you are going to WAR or AOC do you really care if everyone is going to pick the one that you want to play (aside from a decent enough population to support a financial basis for the game to continue to be in production)?
Do you really hope the one you choose not to play actually fails? Why?
It doesn't make any sense. There are going to be people out there that crave things you find horrible and some people are going to completely dislike things you enjoy. That is just the way life is.
EDIT: To the OP.
I understand your reasons for liking this game, and I'm not trying to tell you in my other post that you shouldn't like the game by no means. The only reason I posted asking for reasons for calling it a WoW clone was because I've asked that to several people that have said that, but no one has ever given an answer other than the races were similar.
Just curious why this seems like WoW to you. If you would prefer not to bog down a thread with numerous flame-inviting posts, I would gladly get a PM from you. It's just that everyone says WoW clone, but then they don't say why it's a WoW clone. I just want to get the opinion of someone who is obviously well-spoken and knowledgeable about games as to why they think something like that.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Skills vs levels, sure, but been there done that, when all is said and done, the guy that is at level 60 will be same as the guy with skills of = value. While I can smack you around being at the = of level 10 with a skill set the same, it still is the same concept in the end. My Warhammer online would be based on warhammer having all the unique crazy things that makes Warhammer what it really is. Not a close clone because it's a proven concept, be original and innovative.
I don't know what all the big deal is personally, War will have plenty of x-wow players, so getting me and others to see some godly light known as Warhammer does what? Not a personal attack against you, but nothing about war except one part is unique, the rest is cookie cutter in my eyes and in the end that is what really matters. I respect your opinions, I just don't agree.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
The whole Warhammer,Conan fights are just silly and immature...I fully intend to play both games. I loved Both DAOC and Anarchy Online,so have high hopes that both Mythic and Funcom will release good games...I love PVE,questing,raiding,exploring...and I also love PVP. I don't really see why people feel compelled to pick a side and then belittle a game they don't intend on playing.
Definitly agree, while I won't go play War, I do accept it will be a decent game, just not a game of preference for me. I know many go , omg another war vs aoc thread. It really isn't if you don't let it go that rout. So far with my postings here, I have not said anything negative about war, but why I don't find intrest in it. Others here have done the same, I don't see a flame war going on, but I am sure some will step in. The easy solution is , don't respond to those and only respond to those that are having a rational discussion.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I don't get it either, if the release dates hold then we'll all know what AoC is about before WAR hits the market, this works out great for me, because looking at the list of features AoC seems more like the game for me, but I have more faith in WAR to deliver on it's promises. Either way, I just want one of them to be a game I can enjoy for a long time.
Skills vs levels, sure, but been there done that, when all is said and done, the guy that is at level 60 will be same as the guy with skills of = value. While I can smack you around being at the = of level 10 with a skill set the same, it still is the same concept in the end. My Warhammer online would be based on warhammer having all the unique crazy things that makes Warhammer what it really is. Not a close clone because it's a proven concept, be original and innovative.
I don't know what all the big deal is personally, War will have plenty of x-wow players, so getting me and others to see some godly light known as Warhammer does what? Not a personal attack against you, but nothing about war except one part is unique, the rest is cookie cutter in my eyes and in the end that is what really matters. I respect your opinions, I just don't agree.
Your argument makes no sense....
You don’t like the PvP because of levels... well AOC has levels also then how is that not a WoW clone.
I don't really care about getting people to come play WAR it is just retarded seeing people who have no idea what they are talking about bash a game.
I think I am the same way about AoC but I don’t say anything bad about it. I don’t think it will be good I don’t have a good reason for it and I don’t care enough to look into it any more than I have. But I don’t go around posting that it will be bad because it looks like another retarded game.
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EKSA
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Definitly agree, while I won't go play War, I do accept it will be a decent game, just not a game of preference for me. I know many go , omg another war vs aoc thread. It really isn't if you don't let it go that rout. So far with my postings here, I have not said anything negative about war, but why I don't find intrest in it. Others here have done the same, I don't see a flame war going on, but I am sure some will step in. The easy solution is , don't respond to those and only respond to those that are having a rational discussion.
Don't get me wrong but calling WAR a WoW clone is negitive. Because it is not going to be a clone of WoW. unless you mean will it use the same basic MMO concepts that every MMO has used since everquest then yeah it will be like that. But it wount be stuiped raiding and Loot determined PvP that WoW is.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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WAR vs. AoC......
Come on guys this is really getting old
. Best way to think about is "who cares" both games have thier advantages and disadvantages. Better yet, neither one is launched yet so any accusations against either game is just a fallacy. I am almost as sick of hearing WAR vs AoC as i am about Lohan and her band of worthlessness.
Skills vs levels, sure, but been there done that, when all is said and done, the guy that is at level 60 will be same as the guy with skills of = value. While I can smack you around being at the = of level 10 with a skill set the same, it still is the same concept in the end. My Warhammer online would be based on warhammer having all the unique crazy things that makes Warhammer what it really is. Not a close clone because it's a proven concept, be original and innovative.
I don't know what all the big deal is personally, War will have plenty of x-wow players, so getting me and others to see some godly light known as Warhammer does what? Not a personal attack against you, but nothing about war except one part is unique, the rest is cookie cutter in my eyes and in the end that is what really matters. I respect your opinions, I just don't agree.
A lot of things you say though about WaR isn't all that accurate. You can't really base if its skill vs levels since the game isn't out in the first place. And in the end all MMOs follow the cookie cutter design in some way shape or form. So couldn't you say Conan is a clone becaue its combat system or it's graphics? is relatively similar to FFXI? Of course these are baseless claims, but they sound similar to the usual WaR=WoW clone claims I hear.
Isn't this mmorpg.com? Who cares which game anyone thinks is better, its going to be new, its going to be an mmorpg. So lets just play the damn games and have fun. Unbelievable that people gripe about games that haven't been released yet, or are similar to prior games(which I don't understand the hate here either).
Me personally? I'm going to play AoC when it comes out, since right now there hasn't been much since WoW launched. Then when WAR launches, I'll play that TOO. Then whichever game really fits me, is the one I will continue with. Unless they both rock hardcore, then I will just play both depending on my mood.
No, you didn't get what I was aiming at, levels or skills are basiclly the same. The one differances is in levels a guy that is say 60 will pound on a guy who is say 20, while skill sets a guy at 20 skill sets could more evenly pound on a guy with a skill set of 50 types , in the end he will still loose because he is missing that uber skill move kill type of manuver, eh did that come across right?
I have yet to bash the game, I have put up my thoughts on why I think it is just like a WoW clone. Sure, all MMO's have something that are the same. Grinding, farming, collecting, questing, that is all the same. What makes them different is the setting, the interface the looks and overall feel of the game. War and WoW can be compaired because WoW orignal conception during the RTS days was based off of Warhammer, so there are allot of compairisons on that alone. Finally when you look at the core concept of pvp/rvr, it is the same beyond the added editions of daoc rvr (which was awsome in it's day), makes War in my eyes a viable product for sure, but not different enough to say again "Wow can't wait to play this one".
Aye, all MMO's have some sort of simularities, see my response above. But I see it personally as again mentioned above, you have all the basics there with one major difference and that is the rvr. In the end, that is great, but it dosn't (in my eyes) make me think "Awsome idea! can't wait!" at first I did, because we really had no clue what Warhammer was headed, now that we do, it has (as mentioned above) all those traits that can be seen in both games. In the end it's all preferences. The only issue here seems to be my comparison to war and wow, but to ignore that is just plain stupid, an orc is an orc etc etc.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
To me, the difference between PvP in WoW and WAR is a huge one.
In WoW you PvP for the sole purpose of getting the PvP gear. The only other reason would be fun.
In WAR you PvP to take over the zone, which ultimately leads to taking over a Capital City (eventually).
While that's an easy difference to write out in two sentences, it's a pretty dramatic difference.
If you were to compare the motivations behind PvPing WAR, WoW, and AoC are all completely different from eachother.
WAR's main goal is realm gain.
WoW's main goal is personal/small group gain.
AoC's main goal is Guild gain.
Each appeals to a very different player base, and each is fun in it's own right.
I agree with people that the WAR vs. AoC thing is a little silly. And to bring up either while complaining about the other is just stretching for an argument.
I think both games will (hopefully) be successful, and I look forward to playing both.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Checked
Definitly agree, while I won't go play War, I do accept it will be a decent game, just not a game of preference for me. I know many go , omg another war vs aoc thread. It really isn't if you don't let it go that rout. So far with my postings here, I have not said anything negative about war, but why I don't find intrest in it. Others here have done the same, I don't see a flame war going on, but I am sure some will step in. The easy solution is , don't respond to those and only respond to those that are having a rational discussion.
Your whole thread is nothing but a attempt to start a flame war really, No really what is its purpose otherwise? Saying WAR is a WOW clone is almost the most negative thing you could post.
So you like AoC because it has pretty horses and even though you haven't beta tested it your willing to buy into all of Funcoms hype, urr ok, WHO CARES?!?!
If you were there at AO's release you know how badly Funcom will release a game. (made Vanguards release look wonderfull). Dispite that little fact of truth there I'm not out to Bash AoC. I full in well plan to try it once its out if the reviews aren't too bad. I will like wise probably try WAR once its out and reviewed by actual players, rather then buy all the hype,
Mean time enjoy AoC but stop trying to feed us your OPINION as if they were anything more then that, ie. You like AoC it will be the bestest, no you haven't played it but you got a message from someone that claims to be in the WAR beta, You seen a screen shot from WAR OMG you think its a war clone! AOC has pretty horse therefor all of AoC is gonna rock !(you just know it! I mean man look at the horses! Um ok so one will need run vista and a top end system for that degree of detail but still Da pretty Horsies!) This truth you must spread to the whole world and enlighten the poor benighted fools that might want to try WAR
whoever that is does not know what he is talking about. war is alot like wow. conan has good pvp in it. if you really want to know about a game may i suggest go on the main website of the game.
Right, right!
Anubisss!!! Where art thou?! I know you read these forums, after all, you have some strange frustration, that makes you come here on the AoC forums and act all macho about WAR. I also know that letter was written by you, unconfusable style, the insecurity bleeds through!
This is a shoutout to YOU! I want to hear more paranoia and insecurity! Tell us again, why WAR is the be all, end all of gaming, and why AoC will pale in comparison. Tell us why predetermined RvR is the only route to PvP success! Tell us all! Continue your missionary work for VG!!! Oops, did I say Vanguard? Excuse me ... must be reflexes, since the last men to spread such type of propaganda on this side of the forums were the vanbois, we all know how well that turned out for them!
You two should get together and I'll yell "There was a fire fight!!!!"
Either way, you're both extremely insecure about each game respectively and neither of you have a reason to be. They'll both be successful in their own way.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.