Why does every wanna be "hardcore 1337 ffa pvper" have to trash on any MMORPG that comes along and tries to bring balance. Are you guys sad because in a straight out even fight you lose every time? Cause honestly you would not have any reason to come to these forums and whine about this game or that game not being your version of "hardcore" if you could win at anything balanced.
Though go ahead and reply to this, trash talk me and say whatever. Just because your mad that when things are balanced and stats are tracked you only rate #6000 out of #6001 people doesn't mean balanced PvP isn't as meaningful as unbalanced zerging.
Cause only zerging takes skills right? And its only worth it if your enemy drops ALL of his gear?
Since when did PvPing mean you have to be punished, or feel shitty after everygame? It's only instancing, if I keep getting ganked and other annoying PvP mishaps at least I'll have some salvation in the scenarios since it's instanced. And if this isn't your idea ok fine that's nice go play your games with corpse looting, extreme death penalties, why not just add perma-death to make it "more" realistic and get it all over with?
I agree, I'd love to see how the point system for loot works. Cause right now it looks like Mythic is shunting everyone toward instanced RvR for the sake of keeping as much balance in the game as possible, considering their past problems with balance. We already know that instancing plays the largest role in RvR, even though there is 'open world' RvR. I'd like to see what the rewards are like on a personal level for doing any of the four types of RvR in the game. If indeed the instancing is the most rewarding, then it is inescapable that instanced RvR will be what everyone flocks to. But I'll withhold my own personal opinion until we see for sure. OMG I just read that the city capture will be entirely instanced! This is just not looking good, personally. How can you have a massive RvR game with such over-arching reliance on auto-balanced instancing? Sure it's going to be a fairly large number of people, not 6x6 or 12x12, but it's still all instanced. I can't help but be more disappointed in WARs RvR every time I read new info on it.
I appreciate that you don't like some points in WaR it's nice to see some criticism, but you don't have to flaunt your opinion on it at every chance you get.
No. I'm not saying that WAR=WoW, I know fully well that Warhammer was around WAY before blizzard made their ripoff versions. Don't throw that shit at me because I hate those clueless idiots as much as you do. What I am saying is that, RvR and Battlegrounds are the same.... INSTANCED CAREBEAR PVP BUILT TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE REAL FUN, WORLD PVP.
Or hey, maybe I am missing something. Please, be my savior, and tell me that WAR will have some NON-CONSENSUAL WORLD PVP? Oh well, back to waiting for Darkfall...
I was kind of upset when I read of Scenarios, how they too reminded me of BGs.. But listen, the big difference is that spending time in the WAR BGs will effect the outside world aswell, which is pretty neat. Also I don't see why having balanced fights is a bad thing -- must be ex-Albion from DAoC? j/k I have my own thoughts on the progress of city sieging and such, but I won't make a final opinion until Open Beta (if there is one)
I wish the moderators could delete all the threads linking WAR and anything to do with WoW because its starting to become irritating. I know, make a sticky where people can discuss the similarities of WAR and WoW. Yeah, that would do the trick
Done! Theres now a thread on general about wow and war and aoc comparisons and when will it stop!
RVR is not battlegrounds only. And battle grounds are not what wow made them. The battlegrounds in daoc were pretty much open roaming pvp that happened to have a keep for you to take. I am a true pvp'er and that was pvp to me. Its just the silly "games" that ruin the feel of pvp.
also, lets not be too hasty with how we judge the games pvp/rvr. This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
if WAR evolves as much in its first year as DAoC did, this will be the greatest RvR game of the modern era.
No. I'm not saying that WAR=WoW, I know fully well that Warhammer was around WAY before blizzard made their ripoff versions. Don't throw that shit at me because I hate those clueless idiots as much as you do. What I am saying is that, RvR and Battlegrounds are the same.... INSTANCED CAREBEAR PVP BUILT TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE REAL FUN, WORLD PVP.
Or hey, maybe I am missing something. Please, be my savior, and tell me that WAR will have some NON-CONSENSUAL WORLD PVP? Oh well, back to waiting for Darkfall...
For the last time ...do your homework before you come here spouting nosense.Whats up with using the various WAR sites to find out about the RVR aspect of the game.
Darkfall lol..another DNL i am afraid .Great promises but none of them proven ,plus i am fed up of listening to devs bullcrap.Give me honests info and stick to your game vision is what i like.
Anyway you go wait for darkfall lol while we have fun with a game that wont be perfect but damn near for me.
I wish the moderators could delete all the threads linking WAR and anything to do with WoW because its starting to become irritating. I know, make a sticky where people can discuss the similarities of WAR and WoW. Yeah, that would do the trick
Done! Theres now a thread on general about wow and war and aoc comparisons and when will it stop!
RVR is not battlegrounds only. And battle grounds are not what wow made them. The battlegrounds in daoc were pretty much open roaming pvp that happened to have a keep for you to take. I am a true pvp'er and that was pvp to me. Its just the silly "games" that ruin the feel of pvp.
also, lets not be too hasty with how we judge the games pvp/rvr. This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
if WAR evolves as much in its first year as DAoC did, this will be the greatest RvR game of the modern era.
Man you got such a way with words lol...ill drink to everything you said here.
No. I'm not saying that WAR=WoW, I know fully well that Warhammer was around WAY before blizzard made their ripoff versions. Don't throw that shit at me because I hate those clueless idiots as much as you do. What I am saying is that, RvR and Battlegrounds are the same.... INSTANCED CAREBEAR PVP BUILT TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE REAL FUN, WORLD PVP.
Or hey, maybe I am missing something. Please, be my savior, and tell me that WAR will have some NON-CONSENSUAL WORLD PVP? Oh well, back to waiting for Darkfall...
I wish the moderators could delete all the threads linking WAR and anything to do with WoW because its starting to become irritating. I know, make a sticky where people can discuss the similarities of WAR and WoW. Yeah, that would do the trick
This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
2 Points about this.
The first is that Blizzard did change its PvP dramatically since its release. They went from a completely overworld PvP model, then ended up hearding people into instances like cattle. Then they basically flushed all the high warlords down the toilet by giving out there gear to anyone who instanced enough. Go read the World of Warcraft hype before it was released. They also bragged about the epic war between the alliance and the horde and said the PvP items would be just as strong as the PvE gear, just look cooler. For the first 2 years nothing could be farther from the truth.
The second point is that you can't say any upcoming game is going to be good because of a company or developers previous achievements. We saw Turbine go from Asheron's Call, probably one of the most innovative MMO's ever, to trying to milk franchises like D&D. Look at Vanguard, Brad McQuaid helped create the original Everquest, then went on to put out of the bigggest financial debacles this industry has seen in ages if not ever.
To get a solid idea how RvR works in the game, watch this video. http://www.gametrailers.com/player/18334.html As you can see, there is open world PvP in each zone, capturable 'static' targets, and instanced scenerios. To win a zone, you must participate in all of them. But the instanced, auto-balanced PvP counts the most, by a long shot, towards winning a zone. According to Mythic, these instanced scenerios will be the most varied, fun and balanced PvP in the game. Considering the trouble they have with balance in DAoC, I can see why Mythic would focus heavily on instanced, easily balanced, PvP. But in my personal opinion, it is also by far the least fun. So to answer the OP. Yes, instanced 'wow-style' battlefields play a huge role in RvR in the game. Combined with things like no death penalty, no player looting (well you can loot players, but you get auto-generated loot as if you killed an NPC, the player you killed looses nothing,) and captured targets resetting every few days so that each team gets a fair shot, it's really not turning out to be my idea of fun RvR. At least compared to what appears to be offered by some of WARs competition. But I STRONGLY suggest you make up your own opinion. Look at as much information as you can about PvP in every upcoming MMOG and decide which one looks best to you. I personally am looking at WAR far less then I did say a year ago, but am still interested in trying the game out. I really enjoyed DAoC, as much as mythic would piss me off with it's constant nerfs and balance issues, the core gameplay was a blast at times. But yea, I am not looking at WAR as a PvPers game anymore. Not with such a strong focus on instancing and such carebear mechanics.
/the above is my own opinion and I reserve the right to change it and hope not to be called a troll because it's not an overly favorable opinion of WAR PvP.
Even though Scenarios give the most Victory Points (points you need to take over a zone) the devs said that you Can't take a zone without doing world PvP.
There's no way that you can take a zone by only doing Scenarios (the instanced stuff).
Plus the Scenarios are located within the world PvP areas. So you have to fight your way to them.
Saying that Scenarios will be the be all end all of PvP is a misconception, since you can't take a zone without controlling the world PvP objectives. (Not saying you said that Fion, just stating)
EDIT: To Paragus. Even if you take away Mythic's past achievements. Fans and Press alike have played WAR and every opinion expressed about the game is overall positive. People have been playing demos of this game since last year, and if you read the fan reviews and press reviews you can see that even now before release they're updating and changing things based on feedback.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
No. I'm not saying that WAR=WoW, I know fully well that Warhammer was around WAY before blizzard made their ripoff versions. Don't throw that shit at me because I hate those clueless idiots as much as you do. What I am saying is that, RvR and Battlegrounds are the same.... INSTANCED CAREBEAR PVP BUILT TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE REAL FUN, WORLD PVP.
Or hey, maybe I am missing something. Please, be my savior, and tell me that WAR will have some NON-CONSENSUAL WORLD PVP? Oh well, back to waiting for Darkfall...
What you are saying is that you have NO idea what RvR is, are you beginning to feel threatened by WAR in your cosy pointless game?
Want to see what RvR is like look at Daoc, and then imagine that idea taken a lot further to the point of being able to level purely by PvP'ing.
Non consesnual PvP only provides satisfaction to the people who get enjoyment out of ruining other peoples days, especially when there is no penalty/cost for it and typically its only the antisocial type that seem to see no wrong in that. War will have large PvP areas much like the frontier in DAOC where once you enter it you are PvP flagged and there will be PvE only areas too. But to compare frontier style RvR with the retarded BG/Arena mentality in WoW shows no attempt to research a subject you are attempting to sound informed about.
I have been reading up about WAR and AoC doing some debating on which one would fit ME better... and after reading the news about the "greenskins" and "dwarf" starting locs i am starting to think WAR is going to be for younger kids. It also sounds like the game sticks closely to a storyline. The devs keep trying to say it is nothing like WOW. Why??? RvR!!!! but rvr sounds just like alliance vs horde, very much like the battlegrounds of WOW as mentioned above. And if you are wondering if AoC will have open pvp, the devs already said there will be ffa pvp servers.
Nice, now you have finished reading up about WAR on the on the back of a cereal box, now go do some actual research and then come back, there is a whole wealth of information out there that you obviously ignored in your rush to join the WAR v WoW bandwagon.
Lol I'm just kinda laughing cause you called me a 1337 ffa pvper. I couldn't be farther from the stereotype you suggest. I just think instanced PvP is um.. not nearly as fun as open world PvP. That and I like some small form of player looting, and death penalty in PvP, and guilds/realms requiring the balls to try and hold something instead of it being taken away from me because it's not 'fair.' I want balance. Balance is really necessary in RvR and even harder to achieve. But balance achieved through stagnation is not my idea of fun. I'm FAR from the hardcore DAoC player you think. I just think Mythic is pulling a complete 180 here from DAoC, and while I see why they are doing it, I disagree strongly with it. Thats all.
Warhammer does have player looting but you don't get the guys actual items. There will be open world PvP and instanced PvP. To begin with zones will be around 20% RvR and 80% PvE, later on in the game it will be 80% RvR and 20% PvE. Anyone that enters an RvR zone is fair game. WAR PvP will have meaning because if you slack you could cost your faction the points required to hold or capture a zone.
AoC has no player looting, when you kill another player you get something called blood money that can be traded for items ect. AoC will only have open world PvP in FFA servers but it won't be PvP with meaning because the mechainics for that are only in the Border Kingdoms (a large instanced PvP zone).
Thats not player looting though. The enemy looses nothing upon death, nothing at all. You get randomly generated treasure same as if you killed a mindless mob. And I know that it is required that you participate in all forms of RvR to win each zone, but that doesn't change the fact that you must participate in the instanced scenerio's the most, cause as you said, if you slack, you loose.
AoC has player looting. Blood Money is money you have to use to spend on PvP items (though not gear, PvP gear in AoC is crafted for the most part.) If you die, you loose part of your blood money. The amount varies depending upon how successful you are at PvP. If your one of the top guys on the server and someone manages to kill you, you loose a lot. If your a newbie on his first excursion into the Boarder Kingdom, you don't loose squat. But you still loose something.. therefor, there IS player looting.
I do agree with you however that the PvP server's PvP will have less 'meaning' then the regular servers. But a fair number of folks still want that, so Funcom is giving it to them.
Saying that you have to participate in Scenarios "the most" is purely conjecture on your part. Unless you're in beta, I doubt you know.
None of us know what player will be doing "the most" when it comes to which part of RvR they participate in. For all we know everyone will participate in each type of RvR equally.
It's all just speculation. I personally think people will spend most of their time capturing World PvP objectives. This being because you have to be in the PvP zone to get into a scenario, and also because there are only a certain amount, lets say 6 in one PvP area of a Tier pairing. If you don't have it the other team does.
So if you take over a PvP objective you're taking Victory Points away from the opposing side. This is unlike Scenarios, where you aren't taking anything away, just adding to yours.
I would think that taking VPs away from the opposing side would be more important than winning some for your side to a lot of people.
Still it's all just speculation. You can't say for sure that people will spend most of their time in Scenarios just because they give the most VPs, and I can't say for sure that they won't. it's all just opinons.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Originally posted by Fion We also know that the vast majority of Victory Points are gained through the instanced scenarios. These aren't my words, they are taken from the RvR focused Podcasts. To quote ".. because of this they (scenarios) count more towards victory points then any other form of RvR.' I think it's reasonably safe to assume from this that each realm will have to spend a good deal of their time doing instanced scenarios if they want to win a tier. There are other things that add to your victory points, but they don't count as much. Anyone who's spent any time in an MMOG knows that people go for the fastest and easiest route first. If that fastest and easiest is instanced RvR, then you'll find people who want to win for their realm, spending the majority of their time in instanced RvR.
This is what I was trying to point out. If you want to win the "War" then you will be herded into instanced pvp lands like sheeple.
Everyone seems to be so excited about getting victory points for your faction so you can go and "Sack the racial capital"...but honestly, it will just be another version of king of the hill. And after it is retaken, everything will reset back to normal and it will be as if you did no damage at all.
Classes...
Levels...
Gear...
Sorry, but the only reason this game has so much hype is because they are using good propoganda:
"WAR IS COMING!"
Notrly. More instanced carebear PvP/E with the dev team working frantically to give you the feeling of being able to have a real effect on the war. It will never be about you or your troop of buddies, it will be about the horde of sheeple working day and night in the instances farming VP.
At the end of the day, Warhammer Online will just be another Carebear rehash with all of the worst parts of MMO's past, albeit made with wicked awesome Warhammer lore and art.
yep, yep couldnt have said it better myself. been following the Warhammer IP for a long time and this perverted incarnation is just sad. Yet more Instanced carebear rubbish. way pay $15 for this thing. auto attack, auto attack, wait, auto attack.
No. I'm not saying that WAR=WoW, I know fully well that Warhammer was around WAY before blizzard made their ripoff versions. Don't throw that shit at me because I hate those clueless idiots as much as you do. What I am saying is that, RvR and Battlegrounds are the same.... INSTANCED CAREBEAR PVP BUILT TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE REAL FUN, WORLD PVP.
Or hey, maybe I am missing something. Please, be my savior, and tell me that WAR will have some NON-CONSENSUAL WORLD PVP? Oh well, back to waiting for Darkfall...
Nate449 im guessing your one of thoes guys who likes going around and owning low lvls when your alot higher huh? like ganking people when their fighting some mobs? thats not hardcore world PvP its greafing some and gething an easy kill.
their will be world PvP outside in War. starting off in the tier 1 zones their is only 1 PvP zone and ass you rank up the tiers start to become more PvP then PvE. you can still world PvP to help your side win the war and take the enemy city. but you cant gank low lvls or the chicken will rape you.
Types of RvR video. its good, should watch some of these before you post stuipd comments.
No. I'm not saying that WAR=WoW, I know fully well that Warhammer was around WAY before blizzard made their ripoff versions. Don't throw that shit at me because I hate those clueless idiots as much as you do. What I am saying is that, RvR and Battlegrounds are the same.... INSTANCED CAREBEAR PVP BUILT TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE REAL FUN, WORLD PVP.
Or hey, maybe I am missing something. Please, be my savior, and tell me that WAR will have some NON-CONSENSUAL WORLD PVP? Oh well, back to waiting for Darkfall...
hey bro you dont have to wait for Darkfall come join me in EVE I promise you endless conflict and battles over real resources. no fake, instanced FPS crap but real battles over real terriority we own. I earn a living from the death and carnage on the battlefield in 0.0. send me a PM I'll help ya get outfit with a PVP ship
edit- hm, lost a lot of stuff tonite due to intense lag in the fleet battle. its nights like this i wonder if instances aint that bad
I wish the moderators could delete all the threads linking WAR and anything to do with WoW because its starting to become irritating. I know, make a sticky where people can discuss the similarities of WAR and WoW. Yeah, that would do the trick
This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
2 Points about this.
The first is that Blizzard did change its PvP dramatically since its release. They went from a completely overworld PvP model, then ended up hearding people into instances like cattle. Then they basically flushed all the high warlords down the toilet by giving out there gear to anyone who instanced enough. Go read the World of Warcraft hype before it was released. They also bragged about the epic war between the alliance and the horde and said the PvP items would be just as strong as the PvE gear, just look cooler. For the first 2 years nothing could be farther from the truth.
The second point is that you can't say any upcoming game is going to be good because of a company or developers previous achievements. We saw Turbine go from Asheron's Call, probably one of the most innovative MMO's ever, to trying to milk franchises like D&D. Look at Vanguard, Brad McQuaid helped create the original Everquest, then went on to put out of the bigggest financial debacles this industry has seen in ages if not ever.
I'm in agreement with you right now.
Blizzard also has their 'epic' battleground, Alterac Vally. In reality it turned out to be a poorly balanced map that was nothing but a PvE zerg to the other side.
I'll be waiting to see what, exactlly, WAR will be like for PvP. I'm still personaly waiting on Age of Conan (because I don't want the game to tell me who I can and can not kill) but my eye is still on WAR if that doesn't work.
Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release.
What? How do you want us to take your posts seriously when you say something like that? There has been HUGE changes to the way pvp worked in WoW with the introduction of battle grounds, then honour points, and lastly arenas and the arena ladder system. Not to mention the competitive arena game competition for real prices for each continent. None of this was available when the game came out.
Secondly, how will RvR differ from say, Alterac Valley in WoW? Just curious as this will be my pvp game along WoW
Comments
Why does every wanna be "hardcore 1337 ffa pvper" have to trash on any MMORPG that comes along and tries to bring balance. Are you guys sad because in a straight out even fight you lose every time? Cause honestly you would not have any reason to come to these forums and whine about this game or that game not being your version of "hardcore" if you could win at anything balanced.
Though go ahead and reply to this, trash talk me and say whatever. Just because your mad that when things are balanced and stats are tracked you only rate #6000 out of #6001 people doesn't mean balanced PvP isn't as meaningful as unbalanced zerging.
Cause only zerging takes skills right? And its only worth it if your enemy drops ALL of his gear?
Since when did PvPing mean you have to be punished, or feel shitty after everygame? It's only instancing, if I keep getting ganked and other annoying PvP mishaps at least I'll have some salvation in the scenarios since it's instanced. And if this isn't your idea ok fine that's nice go play your games with corpse looting, extreme death penalties, why not just add perma-death to make it "more" realistic and get it all over with?
I appreciate that you don't like some points in WaR it's nice to see some criticism, but you don't have to flaunt your opinion on it at every chance you get.
I was kind of upset when I read of Scenarios, how they too reminded me of BGs.. But listen, the big difference is that spending time in the WAR BGs will effect the outside world aswell, which is pretty neat. Also I don't see why having balanced fights is a bad thing -- must be ex-Albion from DAoC? j/k
RVR is not battlegrounds only. And battle grounds are not what wow made them. The battlegrounds in daoc were pretty much open roaming pvp that happened to have a keep for you to take. I am a true pvp'er and that was pvp to me. Its just the silly "games" that ruin the feel of pvp.
also, lets not be too hasty with how we judge the games pvp/rvr. This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
if WAR evolves as much in its first year as DAoC did, this will be the greatest RvR game of the modern era.
Darkfall lol..another DNL i am afraid .Great promises but none of them proven ,plus i am fed up of listening to devs bullcrap.Give me honests info and stick to your game vision is what i like.
Anyway you go wait for darkfall lol while we have fun with a game that wont be perfect but damn near for me.
WAR IS COMING
Ghost Squad
RVR is not battlegrounds only. And battle grounds are not what wow made them. The battlegrounds in daoc were pretty much open roaming pvp that happened to have a keep for you to take. I am a true pvp'er and that was pvp to me. Its just the silly "games" that ruin the feel of pvp.
also, lets not be too hasty with how we judge the games pvp/rvr. This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
if WAR evolves as much in its first year as DAoC did, this will be the greatest RvR game of the modern era.
Man you got such a way with words lol...ill drink to everything you said here.WAR IS COMING
Ghost squad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLM5JbgXnFY
Watch and learn my friend, watch and learn...
This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
2 Points about this.
The first is that Blizzard did change its PvP dramatically since its release. They went from a completely overworld PvP model, then ended up hearding people into instances like cattle. Then they basically flushed all the high warlords down the toilet by giving out there gear to anyone who instanced enough. Go read the World of Warcraft hype before it was released. They also bragged about the epic war between the alliance and the horde and said the PvP items would be just as strong as the PvE gear, just look cooler. For the first 2 years nothing could be farther from the truth.
The second point is that you can't say any upcoming game is going to be good because of a company or developers previous achievements. We saw Turbine go from Asheron's Call, probably one of the most innovative MMO's ever, to trying to milk franchises like D&D. Look at Vanguard, Brad McQuaid helped create the original Everquest, then went on to put out of the bigggest financial debacles this industry has seen in ages if not ever.
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Even though Scenarios give the most Victory Points (points you need to take over a zone) the devs said that you Can't take a zone without doing world PvP.
There's no way that you can take a zone by only doing Scenarios (the instanced stuff).
Plus the Scenarios are located within the world PvP areas. So you have to fight your way to them.
Saying that Scenarios will be the be all end all of PvP is a misconception, since you can't take a zone without controlling the world PvP objectives. (Not saying you said that Fion, just stating)
EDIT: To Paragus. Even if you take away Mythic's past achievements. Fans and Press alike have played WAR and every opinion expressed about the game is overall positive. People have been playing demos of this game since last year, and if you read the fan reviews and press reviews you can see that even now before release they're updating and changing things based on feedback.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Want to see what RvR is like look at Daoc, and then imagine that idea taken a lot further to the point of being able to level purely by PvP'ing.
Non consesnual PvP only provides satisfaction to the people who get enjoyment out of ruining other peoples days, especially when there is no penalty/cost for it and typically its only the antisocial type that seem to see no wrong in that. War will have large PvP areas much like the frontier in DAOC where once you enter it you are PvP flagged and there will be PvE only areas too. But to compare frontier style RvR with the retarded BG/Arena mentality in WoW shows no attempt to research a subject you are attempting to sound informed about.
Nice, now you have finished reading up about WAR on the on the back of a cereal box, now go do some actual research and then come back, there is a whole wealth of information out there that you obviously ignored in your rush to join the WAR v WoW bandwagon.
Warhammer does have player looting but you don't get the guys actual items. There will be open world PvP and instanced PvP. To begin with zones will be around 20% RvR and 80% PvE, later on in the game it will be 80% RvR and 20% PvE. Anyone that enters an RvR zone is fair game. WAR PvP will have meaning because if you slack you could cost your faction the points required to hold or capture a zone.
AoC has no player looting, when you kill another player you get something called blood money that can be traded for items ect. AoC will only have open world PvP in FFA servers but it won't be PvP with meaning because the mechainics for that are only in the Border Kingdoms (a large instanced PvP zone).
Thats not player looting though. The enemy looses nothing upon death, nothing at all. You get randomly generated treasure same as if you killed a mindless mob. And I know that it is required that you participate in all forms of RvR to win each zone, but that doesn't change the fact that you must participate in the instanced scenerio's the most, cause as you said, if you slack, you loose.
AoC has player looting. Blood Money is money you have to use to spend on PvP items (though not gear, PvP gear in AoC is crafted for the most part.) If you die, you loose part of your blood money. The amount varies depending upon how successful you are at PvP. If your one of the top guys on the server and someone manages to kill you, you loose a lot. If your a newbie on his first excursion into the Boarder Kingdom, you don't loose squat. But you still loose something.. therefor, there IS player looting.
I do agree with you however that the PvP server's PvP will have less 'meaning' then the regular servers. But a fair number of folks still want that, so Funcom is giving it to them.
Saying that you have to participate in Scenarios "the most" is purely conjecture on your part. Unless you're in beta, I doubt you know.None of us know what player will be doing "the most" when it comes to which part of RvR they participate in. For all we know everyone will participate in each type of RvR equally.
It's all just speculation. I personally think people will spend most of their time capturing World PvP objectives. This being because you have to be in the PvP zone to get into a scenario, and also because there are only a certain amount, lets say 6 in one PvP area of a Tier pairing. If you don't have it the other team does.
So if you take over a PvP objective you're taking Victory Points away from the opposing side. This is unlike Scenarios, where you aren't taking anything away, just adding to yours.
I would think that taking VPs away from the opposing side would be more important than winning some for your side to a lot of people.
Still it's all just speculation. You can't say for sure that people will spend most of their time in Scenarios just because they give the most VPs, and I can't say for sure that they won't. it's all just opinons.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
This is what I was trying to point out. If you want to win the "War" then you will be herded into instanced pvp lands like sheeple.
Everyone seems to be so excited about getting victory points for your faction so you can go and "Sack the racial capital"...but honestly, it will just be another version of king of the hill. And after it is retaken, everything will reset back to normal and it will be as if you did no damage at all.
Classes...
Levels...
Gear...
Sorry, but the only reason this game has so much hype is because they are using good propoganda:
"WAR IS COMING!"
Notrly. More instanced carebear PvP/E with the dev team working frantically to give you the feeling of being able to have a real effect on the war. It will never be about you or your troop of buddies, it will be about the horde of sheeple working day and night in the instances farming VP.
At the end of the day, Warhammer Online will just be another Carebear rehash with all of the worst parts of MMO's past, albeit made with wicked awesome Warhammer lore and art.
yep, yep couldnt have said it better myself. been following the Warhammer IP for a long time and this perverted incarnation is just sad. Yet more Instanced carebear rubbish. way pay $15 for this thing. auto attack, auto attack, wait, auto attack.
RvR = Capitol city sieges.
Which have no scenarios, by the way.
Nate449 im guessing your one of thoes guys who likes going around and owning low lvls when your alot higher huh? like ganking people when their fighting some mobs? thats not hardcore world PvP its greafing some and gething an easy kill.
their will be world PvP outside in War. starting off in the tier 1 zones their is only 1 PvP zone and ass you rank up the tiers start to become more PvP then PvE. you can still world PvP to help your side win the war and take the enemy city. but you cant gank low lvls or the chicken will rape you.
Types of RvR video. its good, should watch some of these before you post stuipd comments.
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/pp_TypesofRvR_bitrate.html
hey bro you dont have to wait for Darkfall come join me in EVE I promise you endless conflict and battles over real resources. no fake, instanced FPS crap but real battles over real terriority we own. I earn a living from the death and carnage on the battlefield in 0.0. send me a PM I'll help ya get outfit with a PVP ship
edit- hm, lost a lot of stuff tonite due to intense lag in the fleet battle. its nights like this i wonder if instances aint that bad
This is mythic and not blizzard. Blizzard's wow has mad almost no changes to its pvp system or battlegrounds since release. While if you look back at DAoC they constantly will add and subtract seperate elements of the game.
The game started out pulling 15-20 low level melee guards from a 2 story fort and killing the high level Keep lord.
The game ended up however, woth a large 3-4 story Castle surrounded by 4 towers (each tower you could either capture or destroy and turn into rubble. Each tower could be outfited with siege weapons to fire away at the main castle they supported (or you could sneak a small group of defenders into a tower and fire away at enemy attacking your castle) The castles would have all kinds of siege, vendors and even seperate kinds of guards. You could then program the guards AI so they would do the type of job you wanted them to.
If we want something in the game enough, mythic will eventually put it in. The reason we all seem to belive in them so much is because of their history with DAoC and how willing they are to admit a mistake and change what they are doing.
2 Points about this.
The first is that Blizzard did change its PvP dramatically since its release. They went from a completely overworld PvP model, then ended up hearding people into instances like cattle. Then they basically flushed all the high warlords down the toilet by giving out there gear to anyone who instanced enough. Go read the World of Warcraft hype before it was released. They also bragged about the epic war between the alliance and the horde and said the PvP items would be just as strong as the PvE gear, just look cooler. For the first 2 years nothing could be farther from the truth.
The second point is that you can't say any upcoming game is going to be good because of a company or developers previous achievements. We saw Turbine go from Asheron's Call, probably one of the most innovative MMO's ever, to trying to milk franchises like D&D. Look at Vanguard, Brad McQuaid helped create the original Everquest, then went on to put out of the bigggest financial debacles this industry has seen in ages if not ever.
I'm in agreement with you right now.
Blizzard also has their 'epic' battleground, Alterac Vally. In reality it turned out to be a poorly balanced map that was nothing but a PvE zerg to the other side.
I'll be waiting to see what, exactlly, WAR will be like for PvP. I'm still personaly waiting on Age of Conan (because I don't want the game to tell me who I can and can not kill) but my eye is still on WAR if that doesn't work.
I never really got too deep in EvE, but dont you need upgraded skills to be effective in 0.0? Or is it just having a good ship?>
What? How do you want us to take your posts seriously when you say something like that? There has been HUGE changes to the way pvp worked in WoW with the introduction of battle grounds, then honour points, and lastly arenas and the arena ladder system. Not to mention the competitive arena game competition for real prices for each continent. None of this was available when the game came out.
Secondly, how will RvR differ from say, Alterac Valley in WoW? Just curious as this will be my pvp game along WoW