Load of bollocks really. You guys wouldn't know depth if it slapped you in the face. Just because other MMOs dilute content with time, doesn't make them deeper, it just makes them take longer to do the content. WoW doesn't insult your intelligence (as much) as other MMOs with fake depth. Doesn't make WoW easier either. Time != difficulty. So FF has missions, WoW has the battlegrounds. EVE has terroritorial control, WoW has PvP you can engage in constantly. UO has 'solid PvP', pre-EA - maybe. But that's a long dead game. So where's the depth? You show me depth I show you misconception.
I would call depth gameplay mechanics. WoW has one mechanic, combat. It does it very well, but it doesn't do anything else.
No mounted combat.
No ownership outside of gear, and passive pets.
No controllable territories.
No guild functionality other then raiding.
No social mechanics other then raiding.
EQ2 is exactly like WoW, and has a ton more depth.
Scripted encounters isn't depth. And when you can use a mod that tells you exactly when a mob is going to do something that's EASY. Only thing hard about raiding is getting people to show up on time, and do what they are supposed to do when they're supposed to do it.
When you want to do an instance you need: One healer (preferably a priest) One crowd control (preferably a mage) one tank (preferably a warrior) and any two dps (preferably a hunter and a warlock) There isn't diversity in groups and that means no depth there.
Some games don't have strict group setups. CoH has multiple classes within each archtype. Multiple DPS, multiple tanks, multiple healers, multiple crowd controll classes; that's depth.
Believe it or not, housing is depth. Anything that you can do outside of combat is depth.
So um. Outside of combat, what can you do in WoW? Proffesions. Yeah. Select recipe, select number of items you want, click create, and wait. EQ2 actually makes you craft an item at a time and has some amount of involvement in the process, VG the same.
Really, outside of combat, what can you do in WoW?
Mounted combat is simply combat with a mount drawn on the screen. It's still combat. Extra model on the screen = not depth. Look nice though - fluff.
The only things you own in EQ2 that you can't in WoW is a house, and that has little to no effect on gameplay. Consider this argument: Instanced housing actually removes social interaction because most of the time you're in your own little instance. WoW has taverns and ins all over the place - so there are lots of meeting spots. It's decentralized and it isn't instanced.
Take a look in the cities of WoW, look at the huge collection of players standing around selling stuff, waiting for friends to come online, dancing and dueling (outside) with each other. EQ2 has nothing of the kind. So what EQ2 gains in novelty, it loses in social interaction. Is that not a valid point?
WoW has fewer classes than most games. This makes the game deeper. How did I arrive to this conclusion? Well, the number of roles stays the same: you still have DPS, Tanking, Support, Crafting, and Crowd Control - pretty much every MMO has these, and no more. Other MMOs fake depth by having more classes that are only slightly different from each other. WoW improves on this formula by allowing most classes the chance to take on multiple roles and also feel very different from each other.
Troubador is just a different flavour than a dirge. They even play similar to the other scouts. EQ2 dilutes it's roles with too many classes and this is a common argument for why EQ2 will not add more classes to dilute the roles even more.
Scripted encounters isn't depth in itself, no. But then, encounters that are identical to each other isn't depth either. What's wrong with encounters that aren't the same as every other encounter in the game. Yes there are mods that can help you, but these exist in other games. EQ1 has voice alerts now - so for example when Mata Muram is about to do something nasty you can program in a warning so it's easier. EQ2 has EQ2 map which lists all the quest locations and points of interest so you never need to search for anything.
Given that, how is EQ2 deeper than WoW?
So you think a skill-based system for CoH has more depth? Well, I might agree - but are the roles different? You still get healing skills, support skills, dps skills, the basic gameplay is still the same, just because you're not a 'priest' or a 'warlock' you're still doing exactly the same kind of things but you're just calling them different things.
And EQ2 crafting. There's nothing difficult about it's mini-game. "Heat" icon flashes, you press the heat icon. "Rough edges" pops up you press the sand icon. It's a picture matching game. A picture matching game that you have to repeat many times to get an item. This requires no skill, or strategy - it just means you have to move things in your inventory around a bit, and play the same non-game over, and over, and over, and over again. This boils back down to the time != depth argument. EQ2 insults your intelligence and makes you spend time creating something.
Really, outside of things that are just visual and make you do more repetitive tasks, or remove social interaction, what depth does WoW lack?
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Depth is options, and you are admitting that WoW limits your options.
If depth is options and WoW limits it's options then how can it have more depth then other games.
I never said EQ2 crafting was hard, I was saying that it was interactive. Something that WoW's isn't.
Housing is an option and extends beyond an instanced home in EQ2. You can earn things to put in that home. A lot of people take great pride in thier homes in EQ2. I know I did. I even made a carpenter to create things for it. It's an option, fluff to be sure, but it adds depth to the game.
Mounted combat is an option. L2 and EQ2 allow you to fight on your mount. You don't have to, but it's more then you can do in WoW. It's depth. It's something MORE then you can do in WoW.
EQ2's guild features are some of the most inDEPTH I've ever seen in an mmo. It provides OPTIONS that other games doen't, and is generally appreciated by the players. I might add that guild functionality beyond raiding is something that the WoW comunity has been asking for for quite awhile.
Guild alliances, something WoW doesn't have, can be made in L2. Huge ones in fact.
Depth is a variety of gameplay elements, whether those elements are fluff or not isn't important it's still an option. Something you can do outside of fighting either NPC's or other players. In this regard WoW is VERY limited. Right down to character creation and archetype.
Other games have MORE things to do outside of combat.
More character classes. Whether they be slight alterations (btw EQ2 classes, like scouts, may not be much dif., but when you start applying AA they get VERY dif. In fact the AA system has more depth, read: options, then WoW's skill trees) of other classes or not is besides the point. It's still MORE, and more is depth.
Variety is more, and more is option and options is depth. Just because a healer is a healer doesn't mean that having 3 dif. kinds of healers isn't more depth because they all heal.
Even VG, yes VG, has more depth. Three healers in VG and each on plays completely dif. from the others. Even though the main function of the class is to heal doesn't make them the same. Same goes for Casters, Melee dps, and tanks.
WoW limits the choices to make the game more accesable to new players. Someone new to MMO's doesn't have to sit and decide that they want to heal, and then decide how they want to heal. You just roll a priest. If you want to be a mage you roll a mage, you don't have to decide what kind of mage you want to be, you simply select mage and off you go.
WoW is a great game, it's fun, easy to get into, and accessable to a mass audience. But it def. doesn't have a lot of depth to it. One of the things that makes it easy.
Easy in an MMO is having to make fewer choices. You don't have to think much to play WoW.
It's the sheer LACK of depth that makes WoW popular. It's quick to get into, easy to learn, friendly to casual players, and offers a little bit of everything (PvE, raiding, crafting, PvP). It appeals to the common denominator. Diehard fans of any of those various activities will criticize WoW for not being advanced enough in the field they like to play in; but the fact is most normal MMO players like WoW because it's an easy experience. It's a tremendous success in that right, and regardless if you love or hate it, you have to admit it does very well at what it does.
Really, outside of things that are just visual and make you do more repetitive tasks, or remove social interaction, what depth does WoW lack?
The main thing for me that it lacks is a worth while PvP system. Why do I not get any xp from doing combat with live players in Battlegrounds? I understand that you could not gain any from duels (unless you were to set it up that it could only be gained when fighting the opposite faction.) due to people just fighting their friends. Battlegrounds however could give you xp based on kills, heals, flags captured and defended. Nothing fancy. To me, the only time it even comes close to making sense is when you are capped at 70. Other than that its all wasted time. Sure you may have a killer dagger, but while you were PvPing, those people you were close to are now many levels above you! WASTED TIME I SAY!!!
"The Death of one is a Tragedy, the death of millions is just a statistic."
Really, outside of things that are just visual and make you do more repetitive tasks, or remove social interaction, what depth does WoW lack?
The main thing for me that it lacks is a worth while PvP system. Why do I not get any xp from doing combat with live players in Battlegrounds? I understand that you could not gain any from duels (unless you were to set it up that it could only be gained when fighting the opposite faction.) due to people just fighting their friends. Battlegrounds however could give you xp based on kills, heals, flags captured and defended. Nothing fancy. To me, the only time it even comes close to making sense is when you are capped at 70. Other than that its all wasted time. Sure you may have a killer dagger, but while you were PvPing, those people you were close to are now many levels above you! WASTED TIME I SAY!!!
EQ2 gives xp and coin, or a chance of an item drop, as well as a chance to get a token that increases rep with your faction when you kill another player. You also earn titles.
As well as the normal faction rep when you kill them. You're status even goes down when you lose to another player.
Right there is an example of a game that provides MORE depth in just a single gameplay element then WoW.
Really, outside of things that are just visual and make you do more repetitive tasks, or remove social interaction, what depth does WoW lack?
The main thing for me that it lacks is a worth while PvP system. Why do I not get any xp from doing combat with live players in Battlegrounds? I understand that you could not gain any from duels (unless you were to set it up that it could only be gained when fighting the opposite faction.) due to people just fighting their friends. Battlegrounds however could give you xp based on kills, heals, flags captured and defended. Nothing fancy. To me, the only time it even comes close to making sense is when you are capped at 70. Other than that its all wasted time. Sure you may have a killer dagger, but while you were PvPing, those people you were close to are now many levels above you! WASTED TIME I SAY!!!
EQ2 gives xp and coin, or a chance of an item drop, as well as a chance to get a token that increases rep with your faction when you kill another player. You also earn titles.
As well as the normal faction rep when you kill them. You're status even goes down when you lose to another player.
Right there is an example of a game that provides MORE depth in just a single gameplay element then WoW.
Classic example of EQ2 being deeper in one area but shallower in another. Yes in EQ2, you get status for killing players, and killing a player with a good title gets you more status. But what EQ2 gains in fluff titles, it loses in other areas. EQ2's arenas are extremely basic and nobody ever plays them - WoW's battlegrounds unique objectives in each type - they're like being inside a Warcraft 3 RTS. World PVP is severely limited by dock-bells and carpet rides and other zoning mechanisms.
WoW has a mostly seamless world - which means you can't simply 'vanish' from a dock by double clicking on a dock bell and being able to run further away because you zone faster than your opponent. EQ2 has tokens and faction? How is this different from honor and reputation in WoW?
Right there are several examples of a game that provides more depth in a single gameplay element than EQ2.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I know what I say.... we've had enough of these troll-baiting thread for this round.... how about we leave it alone until they hit the 10 million mark?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You havent showed me misconception yet, the only thing you have shown is how diluted your brain is. I can tell your one of those people who no matter WHAT is said you will find a way to defend wow. I think the term is fanboi.
Even most wow addicts admit wow lacks serious depth but nvm. Keep ganking people 10 levels below you and thinking your a skilled pvper due to it. Lol id love to se eu i a skill-based pvp game, im betting you wouldnt last 5 seconds
Hey last I checked this is the WOW forum. You might want to ask yourself why your at the WOW forum calling people here fanboi's of WOW. Your the one who is defending EQ2 in the WOW forum mabey your the diluted one.
Honestly I have played EQ2 and it was boring. I would rather play Oblivion.
And for all you people out there talking about skill in a mmorpg game you need to get a grip. While there may be some skill involved mostly its tactical skill and has nothing to do with your coordination. If you want to play a game that requires skill then play UT2004 deathmatch and find out just how much skill you really have.
All of you EQ2 players just the fact that your posting in the WOW forum says you obviously are tormented by WOW's greatness. Either you are jealous or are bitter for whatever reason you need to get over it and move on. If you like EQ2 go play EQ2 noone here will stop you go play EQ2 and have fun doing it (if you can).
You havent showed me misconception yet, the only thing you have shown is how diluted your brain is. I can tell your one of those people who no matter WHAT is said you will find a way to defend wow. I think the term is fanboi.
Even most wow addicts admit wow lacks serious depth but nvm. Keep ganking people 10 levels below you and thinking your a skilled pvper due to it. Lol id love to se eu i a skill-based pvp game, im betting you wouldnt last 5 seconds
Hey last I checked this is the WOW forum. You might want to ask yourself why your at the WOW forum calling people here fanboi's of WOW. Your the one who is defending EQ2 in the WOW forum mabey your the diluted one.
Honestly I have played EQ2 and it was boring. I would rather play Oblivion.
And for all you people out there talking about skill in a mmorpg game you need to get a grip. While there may be some skill involved mostly its tactical skill and has nothing to do with your coordination. If you want to play a game that requires skill then play UT2004 deathmatch and find out just how much skill you really have.
All of you EQ2 players just the fact that your posting in the WOW forum says you obviously are tormented by WOW's greatness. Either you are jealous or are bitter for whatever reason you need to get over it and move on. If you like EQ2 go play EQ2 noone here will stop you go play EQ2 and have fun doing it (if you can).
Wow, dude. Like one person mentioned EQ2, and I could have swore that was me.
I only used it as an example of depth within a game mechanic.
Yes, WoW has BG's. But WoW also has no real world PvP since they incorporated BG's. Prior to them the only reason to kill another player was because you could. And the BG's didn't make PvP better in WoW.
I don't know about other PvPers but when I roll on a PvP server I don't do it to sit around town, in a safe spot, waiting for an instance to start so that I can kill other players. Sitting outside Org or IF isn't world PvP. And capturing pointless flags in TBC isn't world PvP either.
I like a lot of other PvPers find WoW's PvP shallow. That's not saying it's bad. Actually I find PvP in WoW to be some of the funnest in any MMO. I just wish there was reason to do it outside of a BG. I wish they would allow coin drops or XP gain from killing other players. Grinding BG's for hours every day to get gear isn't fun.
This doesn't mean that people won't continue playing. I have an account still. I log in every now and then, in fact I may start a new guild on a new PvP server with a friend, but that doesn't mean I have to think that WoW is perfect or that it can't improve.
Millions of people are playing, and I would bet that millions of those players wouldn't mind seeing a little more depth to the game. They aren't going to quit because Blizz added new content, and they aren't going to quit (right away) if WoW stays the same.
It's a good game as it is, but how bout if they made it better.
9 mil. subs doesn't make the game fine as is, it only makes it good enough for that many people to be playing at this time, make it better and the numbers might jump drastically, or in the least ensure that they don't drop any time soon.
And chill, no one said EQ2 was better. No need to be all hostile. One person asked for examples and thought out discussion. How bout you do the same and give a reason why the game would be better as is.
Ok sorry to be so hostile really I didn't know I was the only one.
There are some land based pvp places that encourage land pvp Silithus I think is one.
There are still often land battles around settlements if your on a high pop server.
As far as depth in pvp basicly a good team will do you well in pvp or pve.
If your pvp'ing solo dont expect depth expect a quick death unless your dueling or fighting in the arena.
Of course pvp is only one part of WOW there are many sides to it just as there are many sides to any mmorpg.
I think one of the biggest hangups people have is the fact that WOW is so streamlined they feel as if it has less depth.
When in fact your getting the same or similar depth as other games with less effort.
I only played EQ2 for about a month so I never saw alot of it. And I haven't really seen everything WOW has to offer yet either.
So I dont think I can or want to get into the details of what mmorpg is deeper. As far as my experience with mmorpgs I dont really play them for the depth I like to meet other people online and get a group going doing anything really and if you can find a good game to do that in I think its a blast to play.
I dont really see the need for many changes but I could be wrong because I haven't played WOW to its fullest.
Comments
No mounted combat.
No ownership outside of gear, and passive pets.
No controllable territories.
No guild functionality other then raiding.
No social mechanics other then raiding.
EQ2 is exactly like WoW, and has a ton more depth.
Scripted encounters isn't depth. And when you can use a mod that tells you exactly when a mob is going to do something that's EASY. Only thing hard about raiding is getting people to show up on time, and do what they are supposed to do when they're supposed to do it.
When you want to do an instance you need: One healer (preferably a priest) One crowd control (preferably a mage) one tank (preferably a warrior) and any two dps (preferably a hunter and a warlock) There isn't diversity in groups and that means no depth there.
Some games don't have strict group setups. CoH has multiple classes within each archtype. Multiple DPS, multiple tanks, multiple healers, multiple crowd controll classes; that's depth.
Believe it or not, housing is depth. Anything that you can do outside of combat is depth.
So um. Outside of combat, what can you do in WoW? Proffesions. Yeah. Select recipe, select number of items you want, click create, and wait. EQ2 actually makes you craft an item at a time and has some amount of involvement in the process, VG the same.
Really, outside of combat, what can you do in WoW?
Mounted combat is simply combat with a mount drawn on the screen. It's still combat. Extra model on the screen = not depth. Look nice though - fluff.
The only things you own in EQ2 that you can't in WoW is a house, and that has little to no effect on gameplay. Consider this argument: Instanced housing actually removes social interaction because most of the time you're in your own little instance. WoW has taverns and ins all over the place - so there are lots of meeting spots. It's decentralized and it isn't instanced.
Take a look in the cities of WoW, look at the huge collection of players standing around selling stuff, waiting for friends to come online, dancing and dueling (outside) with each other. EQ2 has nothing of the kind. So what EQ2 gains in novelty, it loses in social interaction. Is that not a valid point?
WoW has fewer classes than most games. This makes the game deeper. How did I arrive to this conclusion? Well, the number of roles stays the same: you still have DPS, Tanking, Support, Crafting, and Crowd Control - pretty much every MMO has these, and no more. Other MMOs fake depth by having more classes that are only slightly different from each other. WoW improves on this formula by allowing most classes the chance to take on multiple roles and also feel very different from each other.
Troubador is just a different flavour than a dirge. They even play similar to the other scouts. EQ2 dilutes it's roles with too many classes and this is a common argument for why EQ2 will not add more classes to dilute the roles even more.
Scripted encounters isn't depth in itself, no. But then, encounters that are identical to each other isn't depth either. What's wrong with encounters that aren't the same as every other encounter in the game. Yes there are mods that can help you, but these exist in other games. EQ1 has voice alerts now - so for example when Mata Muram is about to do something nasty you can program in a warning so it's easier. EQ2 has EQ2 map which lists all the quest locations and points of interest so you never need to search for anything.
Given that, how is EQ2 deeper than WoW?
So you think a skill-based system for CoH has more depth? Well, I might agree - but are the roles different? You still get healing skills, support skills, dps skills, the basic gameplay is still the same, just because you're not a 'priest' or a 'warlock' you're still doing exactly the same kind of things but you're just calling them different things.
And EQ2 crafting. There's nothing difficult about it's mini-game. "Heat" icon flashes, you press the heat icon. "Rough edges" pops up you press the sand icon. It's a picture matching game. A picture matching game that you have to repeat many times to get an item. This requires no skill, or strategy - it just means you have to move things in your inventory around a bit, and play the same non-game over, and over, and over, and over again. This boils back down to the time != depth argument. EQ2 insults your intelligence and makes you spend time creating something.
Really, outside of things that are just visual and make you do more repetitive tasks, or remove social interaction, what depth does WoW lack?
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
millions of kids found MMO's thanks to Blizzard, but they will grow up and want something more soon.
Recant,
You're kind of arguing against yourself.
Depth is options, and you are admitting that WoW limits your options.
If depth is options and WoW limits it's options then how can it have more depth then other games.
I never said EQ2 crafting was hard, I was saying that it was interactive. Something that WoW's isn't.
Housing is an option and extends beyond an instanced home in EQ2. You can earn things to put in that home. A lot of people take great pride in thier homes in EQ2. I know I did. I even made a carpenter to create things for it. It's an option, fluff to be sure, but it adds depth to the game.
Mounted combat is an option. L2 and EQ2 allow you to fight on your mount. You don't have to, but it's more then you can do in WoW. It's depth. It's something MORE then you can do in WoW.
EQ2's guild features are some of the most inDEPTH I've ever seen in an mmo. It provides OPTIONS that other games doen't, and is generally appreciated by the players. I might add that guild functionality beyond raiding is something that the WoW comunity has been asking for for quite awhile.
Guild alliances, something WoW doesn't have, can be made in L2. Huge ones in fact.
Depth is a variety of gameplay elements, whether those elements are fluff or not isn't important it's still an option. Something you can do outside of fighting either NPC's or other players. In this regard WoW is VERY limited. Right down to character creation and archetype.
Other games have MORE things to do outside of combat.
More character classes. Whether they be slight alterations (btw EQ2 classes, like scouts, may not be much dif., but when you start applying AA they get VERY dif. In fact the AA system has more depth, read: options, then WoW's skill trees) of other classes or not is besides the point. It's still MORE, and more is depth.
Variety is more, and more is option and options is depth. Just because a healer is a healer doesn't mean that having 3 dif. kinds of healers isn't more depth because they all heal.
Even VG, yes VG, has more depth. Three healers in VG and each on plays completely dif. from the others. Even though the main function of the class is to heal doesn't make them the same. Same goes for Casters, Melee dps, and tanks.
WoW limits the choices to make the game more accesable to new players. Someone new to MMO's doesn't have to sit and decide that they want to heal, and then decide how they want to heal. You just roll a priest. If you want to be a mage you roll a mage, you don't have to decide what kind of mage you want to be, you simply select mage and off you go.
WoW is a great game, it's fun, easy to get into, and accessable to a mass audience. But it def. doesn't have a lot of depth to it. One of the things that makes it easy.
Easy in an MMO is having to make fewer choices. You don't have to think much to play WoW.
Wish Darkfall would release.
It's the sheer LACK of depth that makes WoW popular. It's quick to get into, easy to learn, friendly to casual players, and offers a little bit of everything (PvE, raiding, crafting, PvP). It appeals to the common denominator. Diehard fans of any of those various activities will criticize WoW for not being advanced enough in the field they like to play in; but the fact is most normal MMO players like WoW because it's an easy experience. It's a tremendous success in that right, and regardless if you love or hate it, you have to admit it does very well at what it does.
The main thing for me that it lacks is a worth while PvP system. Why do I not get any xp from doing combat with live players in Battlegrounds? I understand that you could not gain any from duels (unless you were to set it up that it could only be gained when fighting the opposite faction.) due to people just fighting their friends. Battlegrounds however could give you xp based on kills, heals, flags captured and defended. Nothing fancy. To me, the only time it even comes close to making sense is when you are capped at 70. Other than that its all wasted time. Sure you may have a killer dagger, but while you were PvPing, those people you were close to are now many levels above you! WASTED TIME I SAY!!!
"The Death of one is a Tragedy, the death of millions is just a statistic."
The main thing for me that it lacks is a worth while PvP system. Why do I not get any xp from doing combat with live players in Battlegrounds? I understand that you could not gain any from duels (unless you were to set it up that it could only be gained when fighting the opposite faction.) due to people just fighting their friends. Battlegrounds however could give you xp based on kills, heals, flags captured and defended. Nothing fancy. To me, the only time it even comes close to making sense is when you are capped at 70. Other than that its all wasted time. Sure you may have a killer dagger, but while you were PvPing, those people you were close to are now many levels above you! WASTED TIME I SAY!!!
EQ2 gives xp and coin, or a chance of an item drop, as well as a chance to get a token that increases rep with your faction when you kill another player. You also earn titles.As well as the normal faction rep when you kill them. You're status even goes down when you lose to another player.
Right there is an example of a game that provides MORE depth in just a single gameplay element then WoW.
Wish Darkfall would release.
The main thing for me that it lacks is a worth while PvP system. Why do I not get any xp from doing combat with live players in Battlegrounds? I understand that you could not gain any from duels (unless you were to set it up that it could only be gained when fighting the opposite faction.) due to people just fighting their friends. Battlegrounds however could give you xp based on kills, heals, flags captured and defended. Nothing fancy. To me, the only time it even comes close to making sense is when you are capped at 70. Other than that its all wasted time. Sure you may have a killer dagger, but while you were PvPing, those people you were close to are now many levels above you! WASTED TIME I SAY!!!
EQ2 gives xp and coin, or a chance of an item drop, as well as a chance to get a token that increases rep with your faction when you kill another player. You also earn titles.As well as the normal faction rep when you kill them. You're status even goes down when you lose to another player.
Right there is an example of a game that provides MORE depth in just a single gameplay element then WoW.
Classic example of EQ2 being deeper in one area but shallower in another. Yes in EQ2, you get status for killing players, and killing a player with a good title gets you more status. But what EQ2 gains in fluff titles, it loses in other areas. EQ2's arenas are extremely basic and nobody ever plays them - WoW's battlegrounds unique objectives in each type - they're like being inside a Warcraft 3 RTS. World PVP is severely limited by dock-bells and carpet rides and other zoning mechanisms.WoW has a mostly seamless world - which means you can't simply 'vanish' from a dock by double clicking on a dock bell and being able to run further away because you zone faster than your opponent. EQ2 has tokens and faction? How is this different from honor and reputation in WoW?
Right there are several examples of a game that provides more depth in a single gameplay element than EQ2.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I know what I say.... we've had enough of these troll-baiting thread for this round.... how about we leave it alone until they hit the 10 million mark?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hey last I checked this is the WOW forum. You might want to ask yourself why your at the WOW forum calling people here fanboi's of WOW. Your the one who is defending EQ2 in the WOW forum mabey your the diluted one.
Honestly I have played EQ2 and it was boring. I would rather play Oblivion.
And for all you people out there talking about skill in a mmorpg game you need to get a grip. While there may be some skill involved mostly its tactical skill and has nothing to do with your coordination. If you want to play a game that requires skill then play UT2004 deathmatch and find out just how much skill you really have.
All of you EQ2 players just the fact that your posting in the WOW forum says you obviously are tormented by WOW's greatness. Either you are jealous or are bitter for whatever reason you need to get over it and move on. If you like EQ2 go play EQ2 noone here will stop you go play EQ2 and have fun doing it (if you can).
Hey last I checked this is the WOW forum. You might want to ask yourself why your at the WOW forum calling people here fanboi's of WOW. Your the one who is defending EQ2 in the WOW forum mabey your the diluted one.
Honestly I have played EQ2 and it was boring. I would rather play Oblivion.
And for all you people out there talking about skill in a mmorpg game you need to get a grip. While there may be some skill involved mostly its tactical skill and has nothing to do with your coordination. If you want to play a game that requires skill then play UT2004 deathmatch and find out just how much skill you really have.
All of you EQ2 players just the fact that your posting in the WOW forum says you obviously are tormented by WOW's greatness. Either you are jealous or are bitter for whatever reason you need to get over it and move on. If you like EQ2 go play EQ2 noone here will stop you go play EQ2 and have fun doing it (if you can).
Wow, dude. Like one person mentioned EQ2, and I could have swore that was me.I only used it as an example of depth within a game mechanic.
Yes, WoW has BG's. But WoW also has no real world PvP since they incorporated BG's. Prior to them the only reason to kill another player was because you could. And the BG's didn't make PvP better in WoW.
I don't know about other PvPers but when I roll on a PvP server I don't do it to sit around town, in a safe spot, waiting for an instance to start so that I can kill other players. Sitting outside Org or IF isn't world PvP. And capturing pointless flags in TBC isn't world PvP either.
I like a lot of other PvPers find WoW's PvP shallow. That's not saying it's bad. Actually I find PvP in WoW to be some of the funnest in any MMO. I just wish there was reason to do it outside of a BG. I wish they would allow coin drops or XP gain from killing other players. Grinding BG's for hours every day to get gear isn't fun.
This doesn't mean that people won't continue playing. I have an account still. I log in every now and then, in fact I may start a new guild on a new PvP server with a friend, but that doesn't mean I have to think that WoW is perfect or that it can't improve.
Millions of people are playing, and I would bet that millions of those players wouldn't mind seeing a little more depth to the game. They aren't going to quit because Blizz added new content, and they aren't going to quit (right away) if WoW stays the same.
It's a good game as it is, but how bout if they made it better.
9 mil. subs doesn't make the game fine as is, it only makes it good enough for that many people to be playing at this time, make it better and the numbers might jump drastically, or in the least ensure that they don't drop any time soon.
And chill, no one said EQ2 was better. No need to be all hostile. One person asked for examples and thought out discussion. How bout you do the same and give a reason why the game would be better as is.
Wish Darkfall would release.
Ok sorry to be so hostile really I didn't know I was the only one.
There are some land based pvp places that encourage land pvp Silithus I think is one.
There are still often land battles around settlements if your on a high pop server.
As far as depth in pvp basicly a good team will do you well in pvp or pve.
If your pvp'ing solo dont expect depth expect a quick death unless your dueling or fighting in the arena.
Of course pvp is only one part of WOW there are many sides to it just as there are many sides to any mmorpg.
I think one of the biggest hangups people have is the fact that WOW is so streamlined they feel as if it has less depth.
When in fact your getting the same or similar depth as other games with less effort.
I only played EQ2 for about a month so I never saw alot of it. And I haven't really seen everything WOW has to offer yet either.
So I dont think I can or want to get into the details of what mmorpg is deeper. As far as my experience with mmorpgs I dont really play them for the depth I like to meet other people online and get a group going doing anything really and if you can find a good game to do that in I think its a blast to play.
I dont really see the need for many changes but I could be wrong because I haven't played WOW to its fullest.