The stackless Python upgrade already occurred approx 2 weeks ago. While CCP boasts a 15% overall performance improvement , the actual game performance from an active player's perspective is still obviously getting worse as is proven-out by the regular and numerous unscheduled downtimes (crashes) that now occur about 2-3 times weekly or more.. The major problem CCP claims to be having now, is with their MS SQL server back end. CCP does not know exactly what is wrong with their DB server, and are bringing in a 3rd party (Miracle) to try to figure it out. In the meantime, CCP are throwing some new hardware at the DB server in an effort to shore things up. I remember the old days too, and not so long ago last year when a 100 vs 100 fight was not only possible, but it was actually happening all over. (as I am writing this the in-game market is starting to crash in the busier regions.)
WHile yu are right that there is still some de-sync problems out there thats easilly explained by the fact that 100% of the core database programming just got 100% replaced so considering that there are bound to be some wrinkles to smooth out. So expect more patched to fix those wrinkes before we get the full effect.
Wrong, the DB server hardware ONLY got replaced and M$ SQL got upgraded from v2003 to v2005 SP2. No database programming whatsoever was replaced. We are already experiencing the "full effect" of this upgrade.
Last night in MHC-R3 there was a fleet battle of aprox 200 ships. The server lagged out so bad that module activations required 5+ minutes and FPS dropped to 1/min, yet CCP still advertises that "massive fleet battles" are possible when that hasn't been true for almost 8 months or longer.
When exactly does CCP ever hit their target estimates for major content releases? The DEVs themselves have posted several times the new graphics engine won't even be viable until at least 2nd quarter of next year (2008). The new graphics engine is the heart of the "Trinity" release. Until we actually can use this new and entirely rewritten client/server code, the game has PEAKED. There is no way CCP are going to hit their end of 2007 timetable when the game is in such a bad state currently, and the devs have to work on fixing it vs. working on the new engine.
Revelations v2.3 is scheduled for near the end of this year. Note, this is still a 2.x release and not the anticipated 3.0 we are talking about. v2.3 will bring new features to the existing game client only.
If you are a new player, you probably won't experience a lot of the big problems the current game has. If you are a 2+ year old vet, you have been watching the game go downhill slowly, because the advanced content is bugged or does not work as intended because it simply cannot handle the server load after 30K people try to play. Level 4 missions lag/desync to where they are almost unrunnable. Just know beforehand you will have to become a "customer" to even see the known issues page for the game, CCP likes to keep that information private.
The argument regarding CCP retaining players for 9 months would be a great one if it didn't take 6-7 months for a new EVE player to advance to where they can start accessing the game's "premium" content. Unlike most MMOGs you actually have to invest in your character, and can lose everything because there is real risk and consequences to "dying". It is infuriating to lose a year's investment to faulty game mechanics (over and over), and this is driving a lot of older players away. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the older players who were creating most of the game's documentation. That's right, players write the documentation, and even have to host it themselves because the online wiki CCP promised over a year ago has yet to materialize.
Angry posts like this one have been fairly common since Jan 2007:
I mentioned before, you have to make your own assessment whether the game has peaked or not. I stand by my assessment that the game has peaked. It has. If you don't mind signing-up now and paying for a year before EVE works as advertised, that is your choice, and you will probably get a few months of good enjoyment before the major problems affect you. My intention here is to give a "big picture" view of the stuff you cannot see or do as a new user, and not simply act as a fanboi trying to make points with mmorpg.com.
I wish you would stop trolling here most of your facts are baseless and country to evidenced comments from devs.
I wish you would post evidence to the contrary, and also learn to spell contrary.
In terms of raw client/server performance and raw subscriber numbers, EVE has never really degraded. The fact that you feel things are stagnant stems from the way CCP do business. Their marketing and growth is more or less controlled to match the capabilities of their game. Do you think they couldn't obtain 500,000 subscribers or more, if they really wanted to? There would be no point in this, because that many people would never see a playable game, and it would more or less give CCP a bad mark on their reputation that a lot of angry ex-customers wouldn't be afraid to share with others.
In other words, they can make revolutionary improvements to the code, but then there would be a proportional increase in players and the end customer experience wouldn't change in the long term (stagnation). All the customer would see is the game is good, and slowly getting worse as the subscriber count increases impacted by server performance (degradation). Why do they do this? Money. Its a tight rope balancing act; get enough customers to satisfy economic efficiency, but not enough to damage the product.
I have played for something like five years, and the lag/bugs/issues that I see people having temper tantrums over are quite laughable to me. I have partaken in some of the biggest clusterfucks known to EVE, and the playability has more or less improved. I know this because I remember 100 people crashing a system, whereas nowadays 800 people will merely lag out a system.
If theres any true dissapointment to be had with EVE Online, its that their direction is continually going in the way of mainstream MMOs with a mainstream game developer. No longer is it a niche game that satisfies one part of the market really well, instead it tries to offer a whole bunch of things to a variety of gamers. That alone isn't bad, but it has come at the expense of ruthlessness. EVE is softer and cuddlier than I want my games to be. Given the opportunity, a few small changes would make me a zealot again, but I'm not naive. This is a cycle, and by the time EVE is sufficiently bloated with features and (truly) stagnating, someone will come out with a game that accomplishes more with less.
The stackless Python upgrade already occurred approx 2 weeks ago. While CCP boasts a 15% overall performance improvement , the actual game performance from an active player's perspective is still obviously getting worse as is proven-out by the regular and numerous unscheduled downtimes (crashes) that now occur about 2-3 times weekly or more.. The major problem CCP claims to be having now, is with their MS SQL server back end. CCP does not know exactly what is wrong with their DB server, and are bringing in a 3rd party (Miracle) to try to figure it out. In the meantime, CCP are throwing some new hardware at the DB server in an effort to shore things up. I remember the old days too, and not so long ago last year when a 100 vs 100 fight was not only possible, but it was actually happening all over. (as I am writing this the in-game market is starting to crash in the busier regions.)
WHile yu are right that there is still some de-sync problems out there thats easilly explained by the fact that 100% of the core database programming just got 100% replaced so considering that there are bound to be some wrinkles to smooth out. So expect more patched to fix those wrinkes before we get the full effect.
Wrong, the DB server hardware ONLY got replaced and M$ SQL got upgraded from v2003 to v2005 SP2. No database programming whatsoever was replaced. We are already experiencing the "full effect" of this upgrade.
Last night in MHC-R3 there was a fleet battle of aprox 200 ships. The server lagged out so bad that module activations required 5+ minutes and FPS dropped to 1/min, yet CCP still advertises that "massive fleet battles" are possible when that hasn't been true for almost 8 months or longer.
When exactly does CCP ever hit their target estimates for major content releases? The DEVs themselves have posted several times the new graphics engine won't even be viable until at least 2nd quarter of next year (2008). The new graphics engine is the heart of the "Trinity" release. Until we actually can use this new and entirely rewritten client/server code, the game has PEAKED. There is no way CCP are going to hit their end of 2007 timetable when the game is in such a bad state currently, and the devs have to work on fixing it vs. working on the new engine.
Revelations v2.3 is scheduled for near the end of this year. Note, this is still a 2.x release and not the anticipated 3.0 we are talking about. v2.3 will bring new features to the existing game client only.
If you are a new player, you probably won't experience a lot of the big problems the current game has. If you are a 2+ year old vet, you have been watching the game go downhill slowly, because the advanced content is bugged or does not work as intended because it simply cannot handle the server load after 30K people try to play. Level 4 missions lag/desync to where they are almost unrunnable. Just know beforehand you will have to become a "customer" to even see the known issues page for the game, CCP likes to keep that information private.
The argument regarding CCP retaining players for 9 months would be a great one if it didn't take 6-7 months for a new EVE player to advance to where they can start accessing the game's "premium" content. Unlike most MMOGs you actually have to invest in your character, and can lose everything because there is real risk and consequences to "dying". It is infuriating to lose a year's investment to faulty game mechanics (over and over), and this is driving a lot of older players away. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the older players who were creating most of the game's documentation. That's right, players write the documentation, and even have to host it themselves because the online wiki CCP promised over a year ago has yet to materialize.
Angry posts like this one have been fairly common since Jan 2007:
I mentioned before, you have to make your own assessment whether the game has peaked or not. I stand by my assessment that the game has peaked. It has. If you don't mind signing-up now and paying for a year before EVE works as advertised, that is your choice, and you will probably get a few months of good enjoyment before the major problems affect you. My intention here is to give a "big picture" view of the stuff you cannot see or do as a new user, and not simply act as a fanboi trying to make points with mmorpg.com.
Proof or STFU.
Where have Devs stated that Rev 2.3 wont be out until late 2007? The Devs posted that the new graphics release wont be vialbe until at least Q2 2008? Again, Proof or stfu.
You said "When exactly does CCP ever hit their target estimates for major content releases?" well lets see... Rev. 1 and Rev. 2 where both released EARLIER then CCP initailly stated.
"There is no way CCP are going to hit their end of 2007 timetable when the game is in such a bad state currently, and the devs have to work on fixing it vs. working on the new engine." - This statement shows your complete lack of information or your supidity... or both. If you troll the Eve-O forums as much as you do here you would know that there are teams working on different aspects of the game. Meaning that devs working on fixing issues with the current build will not have any impact on the devs working on the new engine and vice versa.
"The releases are planned for the 2nd quarter of this year[2006], the end of the year and in mid 2007, players will reach Kali and prepare for “Maximum Warfare,” the ultimate space battle, the result of which will shift faction boundaries on each region (server)."
"Revelations III CCP expects to publish the final part of this expansion during 2007."
There is still no factional warfare yet which was supposed to be in Revelations/Kali 2 (Revelations 2 was released in late June 2007 and not Dec 2006 as planned), and the Q2 2006 (Revelations 1) release didn't happen until Q4 (December 2006). So that just leaves Revelations/Kali 3, which CCP only has 4 months left to get out and working before the end of this year.
If CCP can deliver Revelations/Kali3 at or by the end of this year, it will only leave another 6 months before it is mid 2008. Maybe they can rush Trinity out before that, but it sure is not looking that way. I tried to find the post I read from just last week where a CCP dev talked about some of the new client development stuff taking longer, it has either been removed or I just can't find it again using CCP's wonderful forum software. If I can find it again I am happy to share.
"If you troll the Eve-O forums as much as you do here"
Wow! I am an old-time troller here after 4 posts!
I neither lack information or intelligence, something I cannot say about you, because I don't know you, nor did you produce any information to the contrary other than a proof or STFU rant. I also find it very telling that time lines are the only thing you have issue with in regard to my post(s) or that I may not understand the concept of "teams" in regard to software development. If you have any links to info stating that Trinity will be here 4Q 2007 and not mid 2008 please by all means produce them. The issue here was if EVE had "peaked" or not and I still stand by my assessment/opinion until CCP can prove otherwise by demonstrating far greater than 35K concurrent player numbers while providing a gaming experience that will work on any day of the week, and not just at non-peak times.
There is also countless posts in forums about Rev 3 from devs that stay it should be coming in Q4 2007, hell, there is a post somewhere thats recent that a dev, I think Oveur, states that the work on Rev. 3 is moving along and is on schedule for a Q4 release.
As to Eve "peaking" out I dont have too much gripe there. CCP is working on the front line in the technology they use to produce their one consistant world and, right now, they have reached about all they can in number of concurent players.
This June: 210,000 subscribers, another 30,000 trials: Total Accounts: 240,000
210,000 subsribers then eh??? umm please don't tell me you belive that?? lol.. phew lucky for them no more than 30k get online then eh?? please turn of the internet and never return.
This June: 210,000 subscribers, another 30,000 trials: Total Accounts: 240,000
210,000 subsribers then eh??? umm please don't tell me you belive that?? lol.. phew lucky for them no more than 30k get online then eh?? please turn of the internet and never return.
Err what does 30k people online have to do with eve having 210,000 subscribers
I suspect you are equating 210,000 subscribers with the number 30,000 which is wrong as it only takes into account one timezone.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
This June: 210,000 subscribers, another 30,000 trials: Total Accounts: 240,000
210,000 subsribers then eh??? umm please don't tell me you belive that?? lol.. phew lucky for them no more than 30k get online then eh?? please turn of the internet and never return.
Err what does 30k people online have to do with eve having 210,000 subscribers
I suspect you are equating 210,000 subscribers with the number 30,000 which is wrong as it only takes into account one timezone.
I'm sorry but I probably misunderstand you but do you say that those 30 000 are only in one of the timezones ? and that there is more online at the same time in other timezones ?
Or do you mean that the number 30 000 means that there is max number on server a day at the same time, but over time during the day the number can be much higher all together.
This June: 210,000 subscribers, another 30,000 trials: Total Accounts: 240,000
210,000 subsribers then eh??? umm please don't tell me you belive that?? lol.. phew lucky for them no more than 30k get online then eh?? please turn of the internet and never return.
Err what does 30k people online have to do with eve having 210,000 subscribers
I suspect you are equating 210,000 subscribers with the number 30,000 which is wrong as it only takes into account one timezone.
I'm sorry but I probably misunderstand you but do you say that those 30 000 are only in one of the timezones ? and that there is more online at the same time in other timezones ?
Or do you mean that the number 30 000 means that there is max number on server a day at the same time, but over time during the day the number can be much higher all together.
Yea sorry was in a rush when i posted that. that guy seemed to sujest that because there was 30,000 people online that that was as uch as was on all day. He didnt seem to take into accout different timezones in that assumption.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
The only time I see 17,000 online is LATE at night. During prime time in the late afternoons/evenings I frequently see between 25,000 to 29,000 on, and I have seen over 30,000 several times.
eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility Links to graphs of EvE usage and looking at the past year graph at the bottom it does indeed look to be growing
Actually if you see you get a growt in december where there was a large contentpatch, you had almost every sunday a new record and I think people here where quite fed up about that anyway .. in february/March you get a slight drop mostly because of T20 incident and it is more or less stagnant or very very slowly recovering back up to last content patch where you also got the latest record.
Between February/march and to latest record there really was no more records.
It is quite natural that population rise during contentpatch as there is more in advertising around and people are curious about what it is, some even log in their second, third and maybe even sixth account to do stuff with wich will contribute to populationgrowth.
This June: 210,000 subscribers, another 30,000 trials: Total Accounts: 240,000
210,000 subsribers then eh??? umm please don't tell me you belive that?? lol.. phew lucky for them no more than 30k get online then eh?? please turn of the internet and never return.
It's quite obvious you have no clue what you are talking about
34,000 players at peak time
usually between 20-30,000 players 23/7 beyond peak time
Low low end is about 17,000 players shortly after and shortly before downtime.
Average playtime is about 1.5-2 hours
So lets call it 2hrs playtime average:
23/2 = 11.5 "zones" Lets round down to 11
We'll call it an "average" of 22,500 players online in any given zone, which will cut out the peaks and valleys nicely
11 x 22,500 = what?
C'mon now, it's basic Math... How many accounts logged into the game each DAY does that simple formula equate to?
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I have yet to see more than 17000 online, and the chat box is all but pointless.
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
Then you don't play eve. Or are playing either right before downtime, right after downtime or right between European Peak and US Peak time which is the biggest 'dip' in players online.
Anywhere from about 10am US Eastern to about 4pm US Eastern there are between 22 and 25,000 players online. Anywhere from about 18:00 to about 04:00 Eastern there are around 25-31,000 players on. (these are Weekday numbers) On weekends it's darn near max capacity (well over 25,000 players) online almost round the clock except right before and right after downtime which have about 15,000-20,000 players on.
And no, it's not 27-32,000 online per DAY. That's the peak per day, except weekends, which is between 32,000 and 34,000 peak time players.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
It's quite obvious you have no clue what you are talking about
34,000 players at peak time
usually between 20-30,000 players 23/7 beyond peak time
Low low end is about 17,000 players shortly after and shortly before downtime.
Average playtime is about 1.5-2 hours
So lets call it 2hrs playtime average:
23/2 = 11.5 "zones" Lets round down to 11
We'll call it an "average" of 22,500 players online in any given zone, which will cut out the peaks and valleys nicely
11 x 22,500 = what?
C'mon now, it's basic Math... How many accounts logged into the game each DAY does that simple formula equate to?
Heh.. I have been buzy so not been back to these forums... Anyhoo This caught my EYE.
Your saying that the average player only spends 1.5 too 2 hours playing? Seriously? I have seen Gate campers that spent 8 hours sitting at the same spot. And back when I did play our corp opps rainged from 4-6 hours for DS runs to 6-8+ hours on = share mine opps. Actually on Sat I dare say I spent 8-14 hours playing EVE (yes I was playing windowed and running BF2 "cmding" or WOW at scame time)
Ok, everyone how much time do you spend in EVE? If you have insominia, as I do, it's ok to admit spending your nights playing, it beats the heck out of watching infomercials on TV.
I can't see getting anything done in less than 2 hours, it takes longer than that to run a LVL3 mission and collect the loot, but that may just be only me.
mrots, you should not be allowed on the internet Not only the majority of people don't play several hours a day, everyday, but they live in different time zones (you know, Earth is round and spins and all). As an example - out of something like 40 people on my buddy list (all active except maybe 1-2), I never see more than 5-10 online at the same time, and that's during peak.
The 1.5-2 hour per day average is perfectly real (for MMOs in general). As a 1.5 year subscriber I play exactly that much... sometimes more on weekends. Moreso, I play 3-4 times a week, not every day. This is how most people play, it's only a small percentage of MMO nerds that play 6+ hours a day, 7 days a week... (that was my average too in another game... and I want my time back, seriously).
Regarding the original post... The game recovered from T20 scandal and broke a new peak record in July, in the middle of summer, which is usually the lowest activity time for MMOs. Not much else to say, really.
Now if they could only fix the damn de-sync and lag instead of working on useless crap like walking in stations
I have yet to see more than 17000 online, and the chat box is all but pointless.
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
Then you don't play eve. Or are playing either right before downtime, right after downtime or right between European Peak and US Peak time which is the biggest 'dip' in players online.
I think you'll find I am playing EvE, just at a different time to you
Logged in this morning at 8am UK time and there were 16,393 players.
Actually the 17,000 I claimed was broken over the weekend. I saw just over 19,000 when I logged in on Sunday.
As I said before it's not a whine or a problem, there are more than enough people in Help chat to answer questions and 90% of the community are great ( the rest are either isk sellers or idiots but Ho-Hum ).
I have yet to see more than 17000 online, and the chat box is all but pointless.
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
Then you don't play eve. Or are playing either right before downtime, right after downtime or right between European Peak and US Peak time which is the biggest 'dip' in players online.
I think you'll find I am playing EvE, just at a different time to you
Logged in this morning at 8am UK time and there were 16,393 players.
Actually the 17,000 I claimed was broken over the weekend. I saw just over 19,000 when I logged in on Sunday.
As I said before it's not a whine or a problem, there are more than enough people in Help chat to answer questions and 90% of the community are great ( the rest are either isk sellers or idiots but Ho-Hum ).
you are playing in the australian/NZ peak time, if you want some contacts in a roleplaying based corp that has mostly aussie players i can help you out.
I just love the fact EVE admits its current online player numbers. Whether it's going up, or down, or static, they are not pretending. For contrast consider Star Wars: Galaxies 'New Game Experience': "yes, of course it's a success". I'd love to see the real numbers on Vanguard, Saga of Lost Game Design too...
Besides, if EVE ever gets around to actually adding first person play, and grafts in entertainer professions (which should be as useful as some of those wonderfully esoteric EVE research skills), they will probably pick up a good number of players.
If someone said "as a causal gamer, you can have the option to just be a zip fighter pilot for your corp" and they added twitchy space-flight fighters to match (maybe medium drone sized), they might add more customers too. Sure you'd be toast attacking a decently piloted capital ship, but then again a player piloted capital ship (cruiser or up) would be much more fun to assault in a fighter group than attacking an NPC capital ship ever was in SWG. Not hard to imagine: a corp flight commander player in a bar says "hey, we're looking for fighter pilots, sign up here, we're about to go into a storm, you're guaranteed to be toast but we'll spot you a frigate either way after ... (click to be zipped to the carrier's fighter bay in a corp-manufactured fighter matching your skills...).
That's the thing with EVE ... the possibilities are pretty much endless, especially now they link with White Wolf...
It's quite obvious you have no clue what you are talking about 34,000 players at peak time usually between 20-30,000 players 23/7 beyond peak time Low low end is about 17,000 players shortly after and shortly before downtime. Average playtime is about 1.5-2 hours So lets call it 2hrs playtime average: 23/2 = 11.5 "zones" Lets round down to 11 We'll call it an "average" of 22,500 players online in any given zone, which will cut out the peaks and valleys nicely 11 x 22,500 = what?
C'mon now, it's basic Math... How many accounts logged into the game each DAY does that simple formula equate to?
Heh.. I have been buzy so not been back to these forums... Anyhoo This caught my EYE.
Your saying that the average player only spends 1.5 too 2 hours playing? Seriously? I have seen Gate campers that spent 8 hours sitting at the same spot. And back when I did play our corp opps rainged from 4-6 hours for DS runs to 6-8+ hours on = share mine opps. Actually on Sat I dare say I spent 8-14 hours playing EVE (yes I was playing windowed and running BF2 "cmding" or WOW at scame time)
Ok, everyone how much time do you spend in EVE? If you have insominia, as I do, it's ok to admit spending your nights playing, it beats the heck out of watching infomercials on TV.
I can't see getting anything done in less than 2 hours, it takes longer than that to run a LVL3 mission and collect the loot, but that may just be only me.
The same way, i have for some really long times, just loged in for about 2 mins. Just to change the skill. Anyway, max playtime been like 4 hours. Not just EVE, cant stand more time doing the same stuff, same place, etc.
Thats an intresting note. When I find that I am logging in just to set the new training I relize it's once again time for me to take a break (as now) until the next patch comes out.
So the question arises people, are you just logging on to set trainings or are you actually involved in the game, running missions, guarding borders, moving stuff and ratting (and non-afk mining).
I really can't see playing for less than an hour because it took almost that much time just to get all the mates in the same system and outline the mission, though I have to keep in mind that we were all working on our sec ratings with the diffrent races in order to place high sec POS so were typically scattered 12-20 jumps. But even when we were in low sec we were usally farther apart than that.
Comments
WHile yu are right that there is still some de-sync problems out there thats easilly explained by the fact that 100% of the core database programming just got 100% replaced so considering that there are bound to be some wrinkles to smooth out. So expect more patched to fix those wrinkes before we get the full effect.
Wrong, the DB server hardware ONLY got replaced and M$ SQL got upgraded from v2003 to v2005 SP2. No database programming whatsoever was replaced. We are already experiencing the "full effect" of this upgrade.
Last night in MHC-R3 there was a fleet battle of aprox 200 ships. The server lagged out so bad that module activations required 5+ minutes and FPS dropped to 1/min
, yet CCP still advertises that "massive fleet battles" are possible when that hasn't been true for almost 8 months or longer.
When exactly does CCP ever hit their target estimates for major content releases? The DEVs themselves have posted several times the new graphics engine won't even be viable until at least 2nd quarter of next year (2008). The new graphics engine is the heart of the "Trinity" release. Until we actually can use this new and entirely rewritten client/server code, the game has PEAKED. There is no way CCP are going to hit their end of 2007 timetable when the game is in such a bad state currently, and the devs have to work on fixing it vs. working on the new engine.
Revelations v2.3 is scheduled for near the end of this year. Note, this is still a 2.x release and not the anticipated 3.0 we are talking about. v2.3 will bring new features to the existing game client only.
If you are a new player, you probably won't experience a lot of the big problems the current game has. If you are a 2+ year old vet, you have been watching the game go downhill slowly, because the advanced content is bugged or does not work as intended because it simply cannot handle the server load after 30K people try to play. Level 4 missions lag/desync to where they are almost unrunnable. Just know beforehand you will have to become a "customer" to even see the known issues page for the game, CCP likes to keep that information private.
The argument regarding CCP retaining players for 9 months would be a great one if it didn't take 6-7 months for a new EVE player to advance to where they can start accessing the game's "premium" content. Unlike most MMOGs you actually have to invest in your character, and can lose everything because there is real risk and consequences to "dying". It is infuriating to lose a year's investment to faulty game mechanics (over and over), and this is driving a lot of older players away. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the older players who were creating most of the game's documentation. That's right, players write the documentation, and even have to host it themselves because the online wiki CCP promised over a year ago has yet to materialize.
Angry posts like this one have been fairly common since Jan 2007:
myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp
I mentioned before, you have to make your own assessment whether the game has peaked or not. I stand by my assessment that the game has peaked. It has. If you don't mind signing-up now and paying for a year before EVE works as advertised, that is your choice, and you will probably get a few months of good enjoyment before the major problems affect you. My intention here is to give a "big picture" view of the stuff you cannot see or do as a new user, and not simply act as a fanboi trying to make points with mmorpg.com.
I wish you would stop trolling here most of your facts are baseless and country to evidenced comments from devs.
I wish you would post evidence to the contrary, and also learn to spell contrary.In terms of raw client/server performance and raw subscriber numbers, EVE has never really degraded. The fact that you feel things are stagnant stems from the way CCP do business. Their marketing and growth is more or less controlled to match the capabilities of their game. Do you think they couldn't obtain 500,000 subscribers or more, if they really wanted to? There would be no point in this, because that many people would never see a playable game, and it would more or less give CCP a bad mark on their reputation that a lot of angry ex-customers wouldn't be afraid to share with others.
In other words, they can make revolutionary improvements to the code, but then there would be a proportional increase in players and the end customer experience wouldn't change in the long term (stagnation). All the customer would see is the game is good, and slowly getting worse as the subscriber count increases impacted by server performance (degradation). Why do they do this? Money. Its a tight rope balancing act; get enough customers to satisfy economic efficiency, but not enough to damage the product.
I have played for something like five years, and the lag/bugs/issues that I see people having temper tantrums over are quite laughable to me. I have partaken in some of the biggest clusterfucks known to EVE, and the playability has more or less improved. I know this because I remember 100 people crashing a system, whereas nowadays 800 people will merely lag out a system.
If theres any true dissapointment to be had with EVE Online, its that their direction is continually going in the way of mainstream MMOs with a mainstream game developer. No longer is it a niche game that satisfies one part of the market really well, instead it tries to offer a whole bunch of things to a variety of gamers. That alone isn't bad, but it has come at the expense of ruthlessness. EVE is softer and cuddlier than I want my games to be. Given the opportunity, a few small changes would make me a zealot again, but I'm not naive. This is a cycle, and by the time EVE is sufficiently bloated with features and (truly) stagnating, someone will come out with a game that accomplishes more with less.
WHile yu are right that there is still some de-sync problems out there thats easilly explained by the fact that 100% of the core database programming just got 100% replaced so considering that there are bound to be some wrinkles to smooth out. So expect more patched to fix those wrinkes before we get the full effect.
Wrong, the DB server hardware ONLY got replaced and M$ SQL got upgraded from v2003 to v2005 SP2. No database programming whatsoever was replaced. We are already experiencing the "full effect" of this upgrade.
Last night in MHC-R3 there was a fleet battle of aprox 200 ships. The server lagged out so bad that module activations required 5+ minutes and FPS dropped to 1/min
, yet CCP still advertises that "massive fleet battles" are possible when that hasn't been true for almost 8 months or longer.
When exactly does CCP ever hit their target estimates for major content releases? The DEVs themselves have posted several times the new graphics engine won't even be viable until at least 2nd quarter of next year (2008). The new graphics engine is the heart of the "Trinity" release. Until we actually can use this new and entirely rewritten client/server code, the game has PEAKED. There is no way CCP are going to hit their end of 2007 timetable when the game is in such a bad state currently, and the devs have to work on fixing it vs. working on the new engine.
Revelations v2.3 is scheduled for near the end of this year. Note, this is still a 2.x release and not the anticipated 3.0 we are talking about. v2.3 will bring new features to the existing game client only.
If you are a new player, you probably won't experience a lot of the big problems the current game has. If you are a 2+ year old vet, you have been watching the game go downhill slowly, because the advanced content is bugged or does not work as intended because it simply cannot handle the server load after 30K people try to play. Level 4 missions lag/desync to where they are almost unrunnable. Just know beforehand you will have to become a "customer" to even see the known issues page for the game, CCP likes to keep that information private.
The argument regarding CCP retaining players for 9 months would be a great one if it didn't take 6-7 months for a new EVE player to advance to where they can start accessing the game's "premium" content. Unlike most MMOGs you actually have to invest in your character, and can lose everything because there is real risk and consequences to "dying". It is infuriating to lose a year's investment to faulty game mechanics (over and over), and this is driving a lot of older players away. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the older players who were creating most of the game's documentation. That's right, players write the documentation, and even have to host it themselves because the online wiki CCP promised over a year ago has yet to materialize.
Angry posts like this one have been fairly common since Jan 2007:
myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp
I mentioned before, you have to make your own assessment whether the game has peaked or not. I stand by my assessment that the game has peaked. It has. If you don't mind signing-up now and paying for a year before EVE works as advertised, that is your choice, and you will probably get a few months of good enjoyment before the major problems affect you. My intention here is to give a "big picture" view of the stuff you cannot see or do as a new user, and not simply act as a fanboi trying to make points with mmorpg.com.
Proof or STFU.Where have Devs stated that Rev 2.3 wont be out until late 2007? The Devs posted that the new graphics release wont be vialbe until at least Q2 2008? Again, Proof or stfu.
You said "When exactly does CCP ever hit their target estimates for major content releases?" well lets see... Rev. 1 and Rev. 2 where both released EARLIER then CCP initailly stated.
"There is no way CCP are going to hit their end of 2007 timetable when the game is in such a bad state currently, and the devs have to work on fixing it vs. working on the new engine." - This statement shows your complete lack of information or your supidity... or both. If you troll the Eve-O forums as much as you do here you would know that there are teams working on different aspects of the game. Meaning that devs working on fixing issues with the current build will not have any impact on the devs working on the new engine and vice versa.
As Taram said, Get your facts strait.
Troll much?
ve3d.ign.com/articles/707/707796p1.html
"The Path to Kali will begin in Q2 2006 with the first release, and end in 2007 with the factional warfare implementation."
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/643/gameID/14
"The releases are planned for the 2nd quarter of this year[2006], the end of the year and in mid 2007, players will reach Kali and prepare for “Maximum Warfare,” the ultimate space battle, the result of which will shift faction boundaries on each region (server)."
myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp
"Kali One Release - September 2006
Kali Two Release - December 2006
Factional Warfare. Nothing else.
Kali Three Release - April 2007
Our final graphics engine upgrades"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVE_Online
"Revelations III CCP expects to publish the final part of this expansion during 2007."
There is still no factional warfare yet which was supposed to be in Revelations/Kali 2 (Revelations 2 was released in late June 2007 and not Dec 2006 as planned), and the Q2 2006 (Revelations 1) release didn't happen until Q4 (December 2006). So that just leaves Revelations/Kali 3, which CCP only has 4 months left to get out and working before the end of this year.
If CCP can deliver Revelations/Kali3 at or by the end of this year, it will only leave another 6 months before it is mid 2008. Maybe they can rush Trinity out before that, but it sure is not looking that way. I tried to find the post I read from just last week where a CCP dev talked about some of the new client development stuff taking longer, it has either been removed or I just can't find it again using CCP's wonderful forum software. If I can find it again I am happy to share.
"If you troll the Eve-O forums as much as you do here"
Wow! I am an old-time troller here after 4 posts!
I neither lack information or intelligence, something I cannot say about you, because I don't know you, nor did you produce any information to the contrary other than a proof or STFU rant. I also find it very telling that time lines are the only thing you have issue with in regard to my post(s) or that I may not understand the concept of "teams" in regard to software development. If you have any links to info stating that Trinity will be here 4Q 2007 and not mid 2008 please by all means produce them. The issue here was if EVE had "peaked" or not and I still stand by my assessment/opinion until CCP can prove otherwise by demonstrating far greater than 35K concurrent player numbers while providing a gaming experience that will work on any day of the week, and not just at non-peak times.
Regarding Rev 3:http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=456
There is also countless posts in forums about Rev 3 from devs that stay it should be coming in Q4 2007, hell, there is a post somewhere thats recent that a dev, I think Oveur, states that the work on Rev. 3 is moving along and is on schedule for a Q4 release.
As to Eve "peaking" out I dont have too much gripe there. CCP is working on the front line in the technology they use to produce their one consistant world and, right now, they have reached about all they can in number of concurent players.
I think game is doing pretty well when the whines are that it isn´t growing fast enough.
This June: 210,000 subscribers, another 30,000 trials: Total Accounts: 240,000
210,000 subsribers then eh??? umm please don't tell me you belive that?? lol.. phew lucky for them no more than 30k get online then eh?? please turn of the internet and never return.
I suspect you are equating 210,000 subscribers with the number 30,000 which is wrong as it only takes into account one timezone.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
I suspect you are equating 210,000 subscribers with the number 30,000 which is wrong as it only takes into account one timezone.
I'm sorry but I probably misunderstand you but do you say that those 30 000 are only in one of the timezones ? and that there is more online at the same time in other timezones ?
Or do you mean that the number 30 000 means that there is max number on server a day at the same time, but over time during the day the number can be much higher all together.
I suspect you are equating 210,000 subscribers with the number 30,000 which is wrong as it only takes into account one timezone.
I'm sorry but I probably misunderstand you but do you say that those 30 000 are only in one of the timezones ? and that there is more online at the same time in other timezones ?
Or do you mean that the number 30 000 means that there is max number on server a day at the same time, but over time during the day the number can be much higher all together.
Yea sorry was in a rush when i posted that. that guy seemed to sujest that because there was 30,000 people online that that was as uch as was on all day. He didnt seem to take into accout different timezones in that assumption.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
I've never seen less than 24k and it can feel lonely but I find it more interactive than even WoW if you join a Corporation and understand what to do.
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
What time do you play?
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
The only time I see 17,000 online is LATE at night. During prime time in the late afternoons/evenings I frequently see between 25,000 to 29,000 on, and I have seen over 30,000 several times.
I have yet to see more than 17000 online, and the chat box is all but pointless.EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
What time do you play?
I'm on anywhere between 7am and 4pm UK time so I will be missing the peak US influx I know
Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining about it, just commenting that it can be a very quiet game is all.
Made my own stuff from a blueprint for the first time last night so I dare say today will see me buying blueprints like a maniac
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
What time do you play?
I'm on anywhere between 7am and 4pm UK time so I will be missing the peak US influx I know
Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining about it, just commenting that it can be a very quiet game is all.
Made my own stuff from a blueprint for the first time last night so I dare say today will see me buying blueprints like a maniac
Ahh i see well that explains it then
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Look what I just found
eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
Links to graphs of EvE usage and looking at the past year graph at the bottom it does indeed look to be growing
Between February/march and to latest record there really was no more records.
It is quite natural that population rise during contentpatch as there is more in advertising around and people are curious about what it is, some even log in their second, third and maybe even sixth account to do stuff with wich will contribute to populationgrowth.
It's quite obvious you have no clue what you are talking about
34,000 players at peak time
usually between 20-30,000 players 23/7 beyond peak time
Low low end is about 17,000 players shortly after and shortly before downtime.
Average playtime is about 1.5-2 hours
So lets call it 2hrs playtime average:
23/2 = 11.5 "zones" Lets round down to 11
We'll call it an "average" of 22,500 players online in any given zone, which will cut out the peaks and valleys nicely
11 x 22,500 = what?
C'mon now, it's basic Math... How many accounts logged into the game each DAY does that simple formula equate to?
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
Then you don't play eve. Or are playing either right before downtime, right after downtime or right between European Peak and US Peak time which is the biggest 'dip' in players online.
Anywhere from about 10am US Eastern to about 4pm US Eastern there are between 22 and 25,000 players online. Anywhere from about 18:00 to about 04:00 Eastern there are around 25-31,000 players on. (these are Weekday numbers) On weekends it's darn near max capacity (well over 25,000 players) online almost round the clock except right before and right after downtime which have about 15,000-20,000 players on.
And no, it's not 27-32,000 online per DAY. That's the peak per day, except weekends, which is between 32,000 and 34,000 peak time players.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Heh.. I have been buzy so not been back to these forums... Anyhoo This caught my EYE.
Your saying that the average player only spends 1.5 too 2 hours playing? Seriously? I have seen Gate campers that spent 8 hours sitting at the same spot. And back when I did play our corp opps rainged from 4-6 hours for DS runs to 6-8+ hours on = share mine opps. Actually on Sat I dare say I spent 8-14 hours playing EVE (yes I was playing windowed and running BF2 "cmding" or WOW at scame time)
Ok, everyone how much time do you spend in EVE? If you have insominia, as I do, it's ok to admit spending your nights playing, it beats the heck out of watching infomercials on TV.
I can't see getting anything done in less than 2 hours, it takes longer than that to run a LVL3 mission and collect the loot, but that may just be only me.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
mrots, you should not be allowed on the internet
Not only the majority of people don't play several hours a day, everyday, but they live in different time zones (you know, Earth is round and spins and all). As an example - out of something like 40 people on my buddy list (all active except maybe 1-2), I never see more than 5-10 online at the same time, and that's during peak.
The 1.5-2 hour per day average is perfectly real (for MMOs in general). As a 1.5 year subscriber I play exactly that much... sometimes more on weekends. Moreso, I play 3-4 times a week, not every day. This is how most people play, it's only a small percentage of MMO nerds that play 6+ hours a day, 7 days a week... (that was my average too in another game... and I want my time back, seriously).
Regarding the original post... The game recovered from T20 scandal and broke a new peak record in July, in the middle of summer, which is usually the lowest activity time for MMOs. Not much else to say, really.
Now if they could only fix the damn de-sync and lag instead of working on useless crap like walking in stations
EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
Then you don't play eve. Or are playing either right before downtime, right after downtime or right between European Peak and US Peak time which is the biggest 'dip' in players online.
I think you'll find I am playing EvE, just at a different time to you
Logged in this morning at 8am UK time and there were 16,393 players.
Actually the 17,000 I claimed was broken over the weekend. I saw just over 19,000 when I logged in on Sunday.
As I said before it's not a whine or a problem, there are more than enough people in Help chat to answer questions and 90% of the community are great ( the rest are either isk sellers or idiots but Ho-Hum
).
I have yet to see more than 17000 online, and the chat box is all but pointless.EvE has to be the loneliest MMORPG I have ever played .... looks nice though
Then you don't play eve. Or are playing either right before downtime, right after downtime or right between European Peak and US Peak time which is the biggest 'dip' in players online.
I think you'll find I am playing EvE, just at a different time to you
Logged in this morning at 8am UK time and there were 16,393 players.
Actually the 17,000 I claimed was broken over the weekend. I saw just over 19,000 when I logged in on Sunday.
As I said before it's not a whine or a problem, there are more than enough people in Help chat to answer questions and 90% of the community are great ( the rest are either isk sellers or idiots but Ho-Hum
).
you are playing in the australian/NZ peak time, if you want some contacts in a roleplaying based corp that has mostly aussie players i can help you out.
myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp
I just love the fact EVE admits its current online player numbers. Whether it's going up, or down, or static, they are not pretending. For contrast consider Star Wars: Galaxies 'New Game Experience': "yes, of course it's a success". I'd love to see the real numbers on Vanguard, Saga of Lost Game Design too...
Besides, if EVE ever gets around to actually adding first person play, and grafts in entertainer professions (which should be as useful as some of those wonderfully esoteric EVE research skills), they will probably pick up a good number of players.
If someone said "as a causal gamer, you can have the option to just be a zip fighter pilot for your corp" and they added twitchy space-flight fighters to match (maybe medium drone sized), they might add more customers too. Sure you'd be toast attacking a decently piloted capital ship, but then again a player piloted capital ship (cruiser or up) would be much more fun to assault in a fighter group than attacking an NPC capital ship ever was in SWG. Not hard to imagine: a corp flight commander player in a bar says "hey, we're looking for fighter pilots, sign up here, we're about to go into a storm, you're guaranteed to be toast but we'll spot you a frigate either way after ... (click to be zipped to the carrier's fighter bay in a corp-manufactured fighter matching your skills...).
That's the thing with EVE ... the possibilities are pretty much endless, especially now they link with White Wolf...
Heh.. I have been buzy so not been back to these forums... Anyhoo This caught my EYE.
Your saying that the average player only spends 1.5 too 2 hours playing? Seriously? I have seen Gate campers that spent 8 hours sitting at the same spot. And back when I did play our corp opps rainged from 4-6 hours for DS runs to 6-8+ hours on = share mine opps. Actually on Sat I dare say I spent 8-14 hours playing EVE (yes I was playing windowed and running BF2 "cmding" or WOW at scame time)
Ok, everyone how much time do you spend in EVE? If you have insominia, as I do, it's ok to admit spending your nights playing, it beats the heck out of watching infomercials on TV.
I can't see getting anything done in less than 2 hours, it takes longer than that to run a LVL3 mission and collect the loot, but that may just be only me.
The same way, i have for some really long times, just loged in for about 2 mins. Just to change the skill. Anyway, max playtime been like 4 hours. Not just EVE, cant stand more time doing the same stuff, same place, etc.
Thats an intresting note. When I find that I am logging in just to set the new training I relize it's once again time for me to take a break (as now) until the next patch comes out.
So the question arises people, are you just logging on to set trainings or are you actually involved in the game, running missions, guarding borders, moving stuff and ratting (and non-afk mining).
I really can't see playing for less than an hour because it took almost that much time just to get all the mates in the same system and outline the mission, though I have to keep in mind that we were all working on our sec ratings with the diffrent races in order to place high sec POS so were typically scattered 12-20 jumps. But even when we were in low sec we were usally farther apart than that.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]