The only way I see it happening is to have 1 dedicated "premium" server with a ton of dedicated gm's interacting constantly with the smaller player base (couple thousand max).
I think that'd be bad for the player community as you are effectively segregating those who don't want to pay/can't afford the "premium" subscription rates. It's kind of like, "paying for the unfair advantage". What could be worst is that over time, more resources will be dedicated to this premium service and the other servers would get neglated.
Actually, that sounds to me like the only way you'd get someone to pay too much to play a game! "Normal" price for normal service, premium price for premium service.
Personally. I'm too cheap to pay $15/month for most games - even ones that I truly enjoy like Ryzom. I paid the $200 upfront for LOTRO because I figured it'd have a lifespan of 5 years or more [$40/yr, about $3.50/mo]. I would have done the same for DDO, but now with the server consolidation, I doubt it'll last more than another year [I know OT]. With my "normal" work schedule, $15/mo works out to between .50 and $1 per hour for me - more if I were to sub to more than one game at a time. Given the replayability of the single player games that i play, the time for <and interest in> MMO's decreases after a few months, making them even more expensive per hour.
As to the movie comparison, I see 2-3 first run movies a year, at a drive-in for $5-6 per person and rent/borrow/download the few others for $1-2/hr/$0/$0. Like MMOs, most new movies are pretty much the same...
Originally posted by Mythokia Let's all go back to playing custom Neverwinter Nights games with a DM
Actually, I'm waiting to see what people do with nwn2...though I think I actually liked nwn1 better.
I think that was more fun at times than mmo's, lol. The downside was the server limits. Was pretty lame to find a cool server for the persistant world then never be able to get onto it because it was always full.
Never had the chance to play on a dm run multiplayer. that would have been pretty cool.
Obviously this is all about quality gameplay, and the fact that you'd rather see a movie at a drive-in at the most or download them for free shows how much quality is a priority for you. Obviously as well you seem to play only 15/30 hours per month. Obviously the 14.99 system isn't working for you because you'd rather pay more upfront (200 for Lotro) to save later. You don't seem to have much faith in what another $15 dollars per month could add to a game. Which is fine with past experiences, I can see the horror with an actually stellar MMORPG making it successful with $30 a month then all the subpar MMO's think they can make the jump too.
Let's all go back to playing custom Neverwinter Nights games with a DM
I'd bet that is where Premium MMO service could go - pay $50 per 4hr session - and have a live DM to create and run an instance just for your party...
Actually, with coded level restrictions, treasure payouts for x kills of x level MOBs [or achievement of y goal] - maybe they could have Players DM for other players, even. Very tough to keep guilds from cheating, but if some things were hard coded in each mission-type, it could possibly work...
Adding profit to a company promises nothing but more money in their pocket. If they thought they could get away with it, they would charge you more money to play the crap we already have.
Which they can't. At least without losing profits by losing a huge chunk of it's player base. Archlord isn't a good example anyways, it just wasn't that great of a game and ended up going a F2P model. A good example of a poor plan would be if $30 per month wasn't working so they went back to the traditional 9.99 or 14.99 per month model. Offering a company more money won't guarantee a better game, but theres no guarantee you will play it either. What it can guarantee you is that they will value your subscription more and will probably put more effort in keeping you with the game.
Archlord was an excellent example because they actually tried it.
It only proved that a higher monthly fee didn't do anything for the actual game The game hardly is worth playing for free but at one point they charge UP TO 39.99 a month for it.
Believe what you want. You wanna shell out more cash for grind games, go for it. Try SOE and see if you think their "package deal" is any good. 30 bucks a month gets you a whole lot of junk to choose from.
I didn't manage to locate a good public persistent world for NWN 2 the last time I checked (think bit over a month ago). Most were either private and you had to contact them to get password for the server or public but still heavily under construction. Nothing that quite matches up to those that were available for NWN 1(such as the Aventia PW).
I think this is the stupidest troll post I've ever read on MMORPG.com. It's not shovelling money out of windows, it's all about knowing MMO companies can actually make it worthwhile to spend more per month to play a game. Increasing by double would have to go a long way for sure to compete with existing $15 per month games and make it successful. Like you've seen here there are many people who would pay more per month for a game better than this generations in terms of quality. No one here said it should change to $30 per month overnight. Games like Guild Wars and Fury are going the F2P model but don't expect ANY customer service out of them, as long as you can log in it's good enough. For sure I wouldn't spend $30 a month for any game currently on the market, maybe I'd pay $30 a month for Lineage 2 if they put that $15 towards banning more bots/farmers and more live CS support, but theres no game right now I'd pay $30 for. Why? Because they are all successful with $15 a month, game would have to make IMPROVEMENTS to earn their "$30" (just an example of a number people may pay for a "high quality mmo"). The game would darn well have to prove that the other $15 isn't going into their pockets and nowhere else.
It would never be "improved" enough for people like you. It would only enable you to complain more and use the excuse that you are paying more money so you expect companies to cater to you.
Here is the thing... The industry follows if there is no push back.
industry standard for monthly fee was $10 - $13 but then one MMO pushed it to $14.99 and suddenly that was the new industry standard and any company that could get away with it released or raised their priced to $14.99. So if they see no push back from doubling subscriptions to $30 that will become the new standard and you will see $15 raised on all the games within a few months.
It was only 5 years ago that people were complaining about having to pay a monthly fee. The monthly fee should do one thing and one thing only and that is maintain the servers and provide updates to fix issues.
If you had said MMOs should have an elite service that you had to pay $15 more on top of your monthly subscription I am all for that... but to blindly sweep the monthly subscription to $30 is naive at best.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Originally posted by FastTx Obviously this is all about quality gameplay, and the fact that you'd rather see a movie at a drive-in at the most or download them for free shows how much quality is a priority for you. Obviously as well you seem to play only 15/30 hours per month. Obviously the 14.99 system isn't working for you because you'd rather pay more upfront (200 for Lotro) to save later. You don't seem to have much faith in what another $15 dollars per month could add to a game. Which is fine with past experiences, I can see the horror with an actually stellar MMORPG making it successful with $30 a month then all the subpar MMO's think they can make the jump too.
The bottom line, FastTx, is that everyone believes the MMO devs would all blow it. It would take a lot of commitment for an MMO to have customer service that actually responded in a decent amount of time to help players. I mean, if you have an average of say, 40 people with problems at the same time on a server, and you have 15 servers...say it takes 10 minutes to fix each persons problem. (I'm making up numbers here, so don't kill me). How many full time gm's would you need to provide timely service to each person?
Now, paying more money monthly COULD help with just that, but now say you have a month or a few months with significantly less problems with players. Do yo still need that many GM's?Do you let some go to save money that is better spent elsewhere.
A couple months later, a new batch of glitches, etc, new players shows up...the queue starts stacking up again, and now you don't have enough gm's to handle it in the timely manner everyone expects due to increased monthly subscription rates.
Thats just one issue you would have. Now add in server maintenance, development, free content which everyone will expect for 2x the price they should be paying.
It won't work. And chances are no company would really dump all that money straight back into the game anyway.
Originally posted by Mythokia I didn't manage to locate a good public persistent world for NWN 2 the last time I checked (think bit over a month ago). Most were either private and you had to contact them to get password for the server or public but still heavily under construction. Nothing that quite matches up to those that were available for NWN 1(such as the Aventia PW).
I remember reading up on it a few months ago. I believe it will be another year, maybe a little less before you start seeing the player made worlds around a lot. Apparently there is a lot of coding to do for the new tool kit, and development time takes quite awhile, much more so than nwn1.
Adding profit to a company promises nothing but more money in their pocket. If they thought they could get away with it, they would charge you more money to play the crap we already have.
Which they can't. At least without losing profits by losing a huge chunk of it's player base. Archlord isn't a good example anyways, it just wasn't that great of a game and ended up going a F2P model. A good example of a poor plan would be if $30 per month wasn't working so they went back to the traditional 9.99 or 14.99 per month model. Offering a company more money won't guarantee a better game, but theres no guarantee you will play it either. What it can guarantee you is that they will value your subscription more and will probably put more effort in keeping you with the game.
Archlord was an excellent example because they actually tried it.
It only proved that a higher monthly fee didn't do anything for the actual game The game hardly is worth playing for free but at one point they charge UP TO 39.99 a month for it.
Believe what you want. You wanna shell out more cash for grind games, go for it. Try SOE and see if you think their "package deal" is any good. 30 bucks a month gets you a whole lot of junk to choose from.
I don't think you are on the same page here.
I don't think many people want to pay 30 bucks just for the option of multiple MMO games.
ALSO ARCHLORD IS A HORRIBLE example because it's not even as good as some Free to Play games. A game offering $30 a month would have to make World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Lotro look like Free to Play games in comparison. Obviously for a game to do this they would need more staff and a bigger game budget to offer such a monthly fee. It would need to be polished and not rushed, many games rush themselves because they feel each month they are losing potential monthly fees where examples have proven players are willing to pay monthly while the company works on a game.
Screw package deals, SOE is horrible, their Customer Support is horrible, all their games are subpar.
There's nothing out at the moment that i'd even consider paying $30 / mo for ($14.99 is stretching it for most of them). 100k subscribers gives an income of 1.5 million per month, that's 18 million per year. If they can't make a decent game with that then I don't think the extra money will bring any changes other than to the bottom line of the company.
Just bear in mind that you can't buy originality, innovation or talent and that's the area this industry seems to be lacking in at the moment.
I don't think many people want to pay 30 bucks just for the option of multiple MMO games. ALSO ARCHLORD IS A HORRIBLE example because it's not even as good as some Free to Play games. A game offering $30 a month would have to make World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Lotro look like Free to Play games in comparison. Obviously for a game to do this they would need more staff and a bigger game budget to offer such a monthly fee. It would need to be polished and not rushed, many games rush themselves because they feel each month they are losing potential monthly fees where examples have proven players are willing to pay monthly while the company works on a game. Screw package deals, SOE is horrible, their Customer Support is horrible, all their games are subpar.
If everything out or coming out is subpar... where is this mythical game coming from? Who is going to make it? What will it be about?
Your pretty much leaving everything blank... That is the problem what you would think was worth $30 probably would not have the same value to many others. The problem is you start generalizing like you are and companies will start charging more for what is out now... and history has shown us once one starts doing it they all start doing it. How do you think $15 became the new standard... why do you think horrible games think they can charge that much.
You are not going to find anything better then what is already coming out. Maybe in 2 - 3 years there might be another gen of MMOs but I think it will still not live up to the expectations you have in your head.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Obviously this is all about quality gameplay, and the fact that you'd rather see a movie at a drive-in at the most or download them for free shows how much quality is a priority for you. Obviously as well you seem to play only 15/30 hours per month. Obviously the 14.99 system isn't working for you because you'd rather pay more upfront (200 for Lotro) to save later. You don't seem to have much faith in what another $15 dollars per month could add to a game. Which is fine with past experiences, I can see the horror with an actually stellar MMORPG making it successful with $30 a month then all the subpar MMO's think they can make the jump too.
The bottom line, FastTx, is that everyone believes the MMO devs would all blow it. It would take a lot of commitment for an MMO to have customer service that actually responded in a decent amount of time to help players. I mean, if you have an average of say, 40 people with problems at the same time on a server, and you have 15 servers...say it takes 10 minutes to fix each persons problem. (I'm making up numbers here, so don't kill me). How many full time gm's would you need to provide timely service to each person?
Now, paying more money monthly COULD help with just that, but now say you have a month or a few months with significantly less problems with players. Do yo still need that many GM's?Do you let some go to save money that is better spent elsewhere.
A couple months later, a new batch of glitches, etc, new players shows up...the queue starts stacking up again, and now you don't have enough gm's to handle it in the timely manner everyone expects due to increased monthly subscription rates.
Thats just one issue you would have. Now add in server maintenance, development, free content which everyone will expect for 2x the price they should be paying.
It won't work. And chances are no company would really dump all that money straight back into the game anyway.
D.
If GM's start having all that free time, they can actively look for EULA violators, ya know... police the servers more than usual when theres not as many reports showing up. The only good argument for this is around the times a new big patch is released there will be more support issues than ever, or when new video cards and Operating Systems become available and need support. But honestly theres so much an MMO can do with much more customer service representatives that it really doesn't become an issue. Theres always something an employee can do to help out.
And your right, people would expect much more for paying more, and why shouldn't they? Thats the foundation of the monthly plan. It could do much more for a company. Could give a much better image bearing down on a company, people will praise the company for it's Customer service, it's great events and content.
Faith in MMO devs sure is lacking... there is a lot of criticism going on in the MMO market. The real question is, does anyone believe "their" dream MMO could be made with a $14.99 per month plan? I just don't see it happening, if I try to think of the things I'd want in my MMO it would require much more than $14.99.
I think you are looking at this wrong, honestly. The monthly fee is for maintenance and to keep everything going, plus make some proffit.
The problem lies in the initial development and business plan. That's where everyone is getting screwed.
Changing the monthly fee is not going to improve the game, just fatten peoples pockets.
The bottom line is, no company is going to look for busy work for employees. They will hire exactly the amount of people they need to complete a job and no more(most likely less than they need.)
No matter how much money you shovel at them a month its not going to change.
And your right, people would expect much more for paying more, and why shouldn't they? Thats the foundation of the monthly plan. It could do much more for a company. Could give a much better image bearing down on a company, people will praise the company for it's Customer service, it's great events and content. Faith in MMO devs sure is lacking... there is a lot of criticism going on in the MMO market. The real question is, does anyone believe "their" dream MMO could be made with a $14.99 per month plan? I just don't see it happening, if I try to think of the things I'd want in my MMO it would require much more than $14.99.
Thats just it, customers never praise. Their expectations always exceed their payments. When a customer is satisfied you hear nothing, when a customer complains they want their voices heard by everything under the sun. That is the nature of the consumer.
Your argument is flawed... the $14.99 does not go to the development costs of the game, just the maintenance. So yes I believe the Devs' perfect MMO can be made on $14.99 since it has nothing to do with the ideas and concepts that go into making a game.
Like someone on here already said... You cannot buy imagination...
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Why is every pay per month game using the same payment system? It's either 9.99 per month or 14.99 per month and maybe expansion pack fees and startup fees. Companies should get more innovative and increase monthly subscription fees and add more quality or features and monthly event content to the games they market. Is it really that much to ask if a company starts asking for 24.99 or 29.99 per month? You get what you pay for, I hear time and time again players complaining about customer service, or the lack of good events in a game, or the lack of content updates. You get what you pay for, which is everyones flat rate of 14.99 maximum, how much does that give you per month? It pays enough to allow 1 general event per month for everyone, a "few" bot bans and automated support ticket messages. If game companies would realize the market there is for a more "expensive" than the standard 14.99 per month, there wouldn't be as many customer support complaints, there would be better content and quality in general. How much would you say you spent per month before you started playing your favorite MMO? I'm pretty sure playing your favorite MMO has saved you money in the long run even. Less movies you rent from your local Video rental store. Less console and PC games you buy not of the MMO genre and less of everything else you'd buy. For me I was buying one PC/Console game about every month, usually cost me about $40 a month on average just buying new games, now I might buy one every 6 months while playing my favorite MMO, and that alone has considerably lowered how much I spend on my entertainment. I think everyone else feels the same way, which helps contribute to buying Gold online and 2boxing accounts. To most people $15 a month is a brush off compared to them playing 15+ hours a week. For their favorite entertainment they are willing to pay a bucket load to enjoy the game all the more, they invest in more accounts and buy Gold online. They do this obviously to increase the entertainment value of their MMO, to decrease in doing the jobs they hate (usually grinding levels/gear) and increase in doing the jobs they have fun doing (usually pvp/raids). All the money being made by 3rd party gold sellers could be put to use in an increased monthly rate and increase as I've said before the quality of the game overall. Anyone else agree with me on this?
lol i hate to break it to you but there is a large percentage of the community that are children whos parents may not pay 30 dollars a month. Personally Im 16 and I have to pay for whatever I play, I always have, and I wouldnt be able to play if it was any more.
Adding profit to a company promises nothing but more money in their pocket. If they thought they could get away with it, they would charge you more money to play the crap we already have.
Which they can't. At least without losing profits by losing a huge chunk of it's player base. Archlord isn't a good example anyways, it just wasn't that great of a game and ended up going a F2P model. A good example of a poor plan would be if $30 per month wasn't working so they went back to the traditional 9.99 or 14.99 per month model. Offering a company more money won't guarantee a better game, but theres no guarantee you will play it either. What it can guarantee you is that they will value your subscription more and will probably put more effort in keeping you with the game.
Archlord was an excellent example because they actually tried it.
It only proved that a higher monthly fee didn't do anything for the actual game The game hardly is worth playing for free but at one point they charge UP TO 39.99 a month for it.
Believe what you want. You wanna shell out more cash for grind games, go for it. Try SOE and see if you think their "package deal" is any good. 30 bucks a month gets you a whole lot of junk to choose from.
I don't think you are on the same page here.
I don't think many people want to pay 30 bucks just for the option of multiple MMO games.
ALSO ARCHLORD IS A HORRIBLE example because it's not even as good as some Free to Play games. A game offering $30 a month would have to make World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Lotro look like Free to Play games in comparison. Obviously for a game to do this they would need more staff and a bigger game budget to offer such a monthly fee. It would need to be polished and not rushed, many games rush themselves because they feel each month they are losing potential monthly fees where examples have proven players are willing to pay monthly while the company works on a game.
Screw package deals, SOE is horrible, their Customer Support is horrible, all their games are subpar.
I see your point about being will to pay more IF a company offered the value. Thats a very big IF. Your entire premise is based on the assumption that if we give them more money they will reinvest into the game.....you assume to much from a corporation.
Personally I am very skeptical of it as there are to many games out there outside of MMOs that are free online and offer a great player experience. (BF series, NWN series....just look at anything non-mmo) More monthly fees are just going to drive players away no matter how you slice it. Especially with the track record MMOs have. First they need to start CONSISTANTLY making quality products. You need to learn to crawl before you can walk. MMO quality is the joke of the gaming industry. A higher price is no guarantee of higher quality, in fact in business, low quality is often masked by premium prices.
You are missing my point on Archlord. They tried to charge a higher monthly fee promising a better play experience and more benefits based on your pricing. That is exactly what you are advocating. It is proof that higher fees do not guarantee better games.
MMO devs need to master the current state of the games before they move onto "we can charge more money because our games will be better".
Again, would have Vanguard been any different if the fee was 19.99 or 29.99?
Why are LotRs sales so sluggish especially when they actually went DOWN in pricing? (founders program 9.99) The quality is there. The monthly fee amount guarantees nothing.
$/€ 15.- is totaly ok I find. If a game has enough players, it will cover the cost and make some profit. I honestly do belive they should make a profit. I am a game developer/programmer myself, the amount of hard work that is put in developing a game is huge. Let them have some reward for giving up their weekend, nights etc. Hehe.
I look at it in a different manner. I pay 15.- a month for something which I can enjoy 24/7 for 30/31 days. Going out once for a meal will cost me loads more than that and will be over in a few hours.
------------------------------------------------------ Do I ever sleep?
$/€ 15.- is totaly ok I find. If a game has enough players, it will cover the cost and make some profit. I honestly do belive they should make a profit. I am a game developer/programmer myself, the amount of hard work that is put in developing a game is huge. Let them have some reward for giving up their weekend, nights etc. Hehe. I look at it in a different manner. I pay 15.- a month for something which I can enjoy 24/7 for 30/31 days. Going out once for a meal will cost me loads more than that and will be over in a few hours.
Sure, I'm not arguing against a company making profit. Thats what corporations do (and they make their money, trust me...you don't exactly see bunches of these games shutting down, do you???). All I am saying is thinking that a game will be better if they raise the fees is not the way to go, you are just fooling yourself, ESPECIALLY given the track history these games have. Most of them hardly work when they launch and only a handful ever really make a significant impact subscription wise. 15 a month is a fair price right now but if crap like Vanguard keeps happening....well then no, 15 a month is to much
$/€ 15.- is totaly ok I find. If a game has enough players, it will cover the cost and make some profit. I honestly do belive they should make a profit. I am a game developer/programmer myself, the amount of hard work that is put in developing a game is huge. Let them have some reward for giving up their weekend, nights etc. Hehe. I look at it in a different manner. I pay 15.- a month for something which I can enjoy 24/7 for 30/31 days. Going out once for a meal will cost me loads more than that and will be over in a few hours.
Some players don't feel like they matter to the MMO company because losing that $15 per month doesn't mean as much. Offering a $30 pricing model would most likely make a company work harder to keep you playing the game.
To Torak, you can interpret what I mean what you want, but Archlord isn't a good example. I know exactly what you are saying but offering $15ish per month to some and $40 to others is not what I'm aiming at. That would exclude some players from services when in a game I'm all for "everyone put 5 dollars in, winner takes all". It would only cater to "elite customer service and ingame advantages". I'm not putting the system down, but it's not much different than F2P models with cash shops. A model that would work is a "AAA" MMO at $30 a month with stellar customer support and GM interaction. Of course we would need to wait a few years for something like this.
How much is Age of Conan going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
How much is WAR going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
Aion? Tabula Rasa? Probably 14.99.
At least LOTRO tried something with undercutting the MMO market with a 9.99 model and a lifetime model.
$/€ 15.- is totaly ok I find. If a game has enough players, it will cover the cost and make some profit. I honestly do belive they should make a profit. I am a game developer/programmer myself, the amount of hard work that is put in developing a game is huge. Let them have some reward for giving up their weekend, nights etc. Hehe. I look at it in a different manner. I pay 15.- a month for something which I can enjoy 24/7 for 30/31 days. Going out once for a meal will cost me loads more than that and will be over in a few hours.
Some players don't feel like they matter to the MMO company because losing that $15 per month doesn't mean as much. Offering a $30 pricing model would most likely make a company work harder to keep you playing the game.
To Torak, you can interpret what I mean what you want, but Archlord isn't a good example. I know exactly what you are saying but offering $15ish per month to some and $40 to others is not what I'm aiming at. That would exclude some players from services when in a game I'm all for "everyone put 5 dollars in, winner takes all". It would only cater to "elite customer service and ingame advantages". I'm not putting the system down, but it's not much different than F2P models with cash shops. A model that would work is a "AAA" MMO at $30 a month with stellar customer support and GM interaction. Of course we would need to wait a few years for something like this.
How much is Age of Conan going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
How much is WAR going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
Aion? Tabula Rasa? Probably 14.99.
At least LOTRO tried something with undercutting the MMO market with a 9.99 model and a lifetime model.
Making people pay more makes no difference. The only reason they would remotely try harder to keep you at 30 bucks is because they priced themselves out of the market. The pool of players willing to pay that much would be too low and thus the game...if it were even worth it would have low subs. The low subs would be what actually kept them trying to keep you more.
30 bucks at this time is a no go........ and will not work.
Originally posted by FastTx Originally posted by Apocalyptica
Some players don't feel like they matter to the MMO company because losing that $15 per month doesn't mean as much. Offering a $30 pricing model would most likely make a company work harder to keep you playing the game.
If you believe that...you are truly naive. The only way a single customer will really matter to a company is if they cost them millions..not 15$, 30$ or even 45$.
lol i hate to break it to you but there is a large percentage of the community that are children whos parents may not pay 30 dollars a month. Personally Im 16 and I have to pay for whatever I play, I always have, and I wouldnt be able to play if it was any more.
I couldn't agree more. I started on MMOs when I was barely 15 and had to pony up the subscription fees from my own allowance. There's a significant teen population in MMOs these days, especially with respect to WoW and a price hike would cut some of these people off. I actually don't know that many who have their parents pay the fee for them, other than those who are fortunate enough to also have gaming parents.
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I think that'd be bad for the player community as you are effectively segregating those who don't want to pay/can't afford the "premium" subscription rates. It's kind of like, "paying for the unfair advantage". What could be worst is that over time, more resources will be dedicated to this premium service and the other servers would get neglated.
Actually, that sounds to me like the only way you'd get someone to pay too much to play a game! "Normal" price for normal service, premium price for premium service.Personally. I'm too cheap to pay $15/month for most games - even ones that I truly enjoy like Ryzom. I paid the $200 upfront for LOTRO because I figured it'd have a lifespan of 5 years or more [$40/yr, about $3.50/mo]. I would have done the same for DDO, but now with the server consolidation, I doubt it'll last more than another year [I know OT]. With my "normal" work schedule, $15/mo works out to between .50 and $1 per hour for me - more if I were to sub to more than one game at a time. Given the replayability of the single player games that i play, the time for <and interest in> MMO's decreases after a few months, making them even more expensive per hour.
As to the movie comparison, I see 2-3 first run movies a year, at a drive-in for $5-6 per person and rent/borrow/download the few others for $1-2/hr/$0/$0. Like MMOs, most new movies are pretty much the same...
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
Let's all go back to playing custom Neverwinter Nights games with a DM
Actually, I'm waiting to see what people do with nwn2...though I think I actually liked nwn1 better.
I think that was more fun at times than mmo's, lol. The downside was the server limits. Was pretty lame to find a cool server for the persistant world then never be able to get onto it because it was always full.
Never had the chance to play on a dm run multiplayer. that would have been pretty cool.
D.
Obviously this is all about quality gameplay, and the fact that you'd rather see a movie at a drive-in at the most or download them for free shows how much quality is a priority for you. Obviously as well you seem to play only 15/30 hours per month. Obviously the 14.99 system isn't working for you because you'd rather pay more upfront (200 for Lotro) to save later. You don't seem to have much faith in what another $15 dollars per month could add to a game. Which is fine with past experiences, I can see the horror with an actually stellar MMORPG making it successful with $30 a month then all the subpar MMO's think they can make the jump too.
Actually, with coded level restrictions, treasure payouts for x kills of x level MOBs [or achievement of y goal] - maybe they could have Players DM for other players, even. Very tough to keep guilds from cheating, but if some things were hard coded in each mission-type, it could possibly work...
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
Archlord was an excellent example because they actually tried it.It only proved that a higher monthly fee didn't do anything for the actual game
The game hardly is worth playing for free but at one point they charge UP TO 39.99 a month for it.
Believe what you want. You wanna shell out more cash for grind games, go for it. Try SOE and see if you think their "package deal" is any good. 30 bucks a month gets you a whole lot of junk to choose from.
I didn't manage to locate a good public persistent world for NWN 2 the last time I checked (think bit over a month ago). Most were either private and you had to contact them to get password for the server or public but still heavily under construction. Nothing that quite matches up to those that were available for NWN 1(such as the Aventia PW).
Here is the thing... The industry follows if there is no push back.
industry standard for monthly fee was $10 - $13 but then one MMO pushed it to $14.99 and suddenly that was the new industry standard and any company that could get away with it released or raised their priced to $14.99. So if they see no push back from doubling subscriptions to $30 that will become the new standard and you will see $15 raised on all the games within a few months.
It was only 5 years ago that people were complaining about having to pay a monthly fee. The monthly fee should do one thing and one thing only and that is maintain the servers and provide updates to fix issues.
If you had said MMOs should have an elite service that you had to pay $15 more on top of your monthly subscription I am all for that... but to blindly sweep the monthly subscription to $30 is naive at best.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
The bottom line, FastTx, is that everyone believes the MMO devs would all blow it. It would take a lot of commitment for an MMO to have customer service that actually responded in a decent amount of time to help players. I mean, if you have an average of say, 40 people with problems at the same time on a server, and you have 15 servers...say it takes 10 minutes to fix each persons problem. (I'm making up numbers here, so don't kill me). How many full time gm's would you need to provide timely service to each person?
Now, paying more money monthly COULD help with just that, but now say you have a month or a few months with significantly less problems with players. Do yo still need that many GM's?Do you let some go to save money that is better spent elsewhere.
A couple months later, a new batch of glitches, etc, new players shows up...the queue starts stacking up again, and now you don't have enough gm's to handle it in the timely manner everyone expects due to increased monthly subscription rates.
Thats just one issue you would have. Now add in server maintenance, development, free content which everyone will expect for 2x the price they should be paying.
It won't work. And chances are no company would really dump all that money straight back into the game anyway.
D.
I remember reading up on it a few months ago. I believe it will be another year, maybe a little less before you start seeing the player made worlds around a lot. Apparently there is a lot of coding to do for the new tool kit, and development time takes quite awhile, much more so than nwn1.
D.
Archlord was an excellent example because they actually tried it.It only proved that a higher monthly fee didn't do anything for the actual game
The game hardly is worth playing for free but at one point they charge UP TO 39.99 a month for it.
Believe what you want. You wanna shell out more cash for grind games, go for it. Try SOE and see if you think their "package deal" is any good. 30 bucks a month gets you a whole lot of junk to choose from.
I don't think you are on the same page here.I don't think many people want to pay 30 bucks just for the option of multiple MMO games.
ALSO ARCHLORD IS A HORRIBLE example because it's not even as good as some Free to Play games. A game offering $30 a month would have to make World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Lotro look like Free to Play games in comparison. Obviously for a game to do this they would need more staff and a bigger game budget to offer such a monthly fee. It would need to be polished and not rushed, many games rush themselves because they feel each month they are losing potential monthly fees where examples have proven players are willing to pay monthly while the company works on a game.
Screw package deals, SOE is horrible, their Customer Support is horrible, all their games are subpar.
There's nothing out at the moment that i'd even consider paying $30 / mo for ($14.99 is stretching it for most of them). 100k subscribers gives an income of 1.5 million per month, that's 18 million per year. If they can't make a decent game with that then I don't think the extra money will bring any changes other than to the bottom line of the company.
Just bear in mind that you can't buy originality, innovation or talent and that's the area this industry seems to be lacking in at the moment.
Your pretty much leaving everything blank... That is the problem what you would think was worth $30 probably would not have the same value to many others. The problem is you start generalizing like you are and companies will start charging more for what is out now... and history has shown us once one starts doing it they all start doing it. How do you think $15 became the new standard... why do you think horrible games think they can charge that much.
You are not going to find anything better then what is already coming out. Maybe in 2 - 3 years there might be another gen of MMOs but I think it will still not live up to the expectations you have in your head.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
The bottom line, FastTx, is that everyone believes the MMO devs would all blow it. It would take a lot of commitment for an MMO to have customer service that actually responded in a decent amount of time to help players. I mean, if you have an average of say, 40 people with problems at the same time on a server, and you have 15 servers...say it takes 10 minutes to fix each persons problem. (I'm making up numbers here, so don't kill me). How many full time gm's would you need to provide timely service to each person?
Now, paying more money monthly COULD help with just that, but now say you have a month or a few months with significantly less problems with players. Do yo still need that many GM's?Do you let some go to save money that is better spent elsewhere.
A couple months later, a new batch of glitches, etc, new players shows up...the queue starts stacking up again, and now you don't have enough gm's to handle it in the timely manner everyone expects due to increased monthly subscription rates.
Thats just one issue you would have. Now add in server maintenance, development, free content which everyone will expect for 2x the price they should be paying.
It won't work. And chances are no company would really dump all that money straight back into the game anyway.
D.
If GM's start having all that free time, they can actively look for EULA violators, ya know... police the servers more than usual when theres not as many reports showing up. The only good argument for this is around the times a new big patch is released there will be more support issues than ever, or when new video cards and Operating Systems become available and need support. But honestly theres so much an MMO can do with much more customer service representatives that it really doesn't become an issue. Theres always something an employee can do to help out.And your right, people would expect much more for paying more, and why shouldn't they? Thats the foundation of the monthly plan. It could do much more for a company. Could give a much better image bearing down on a company, people will praise the company for it's Customer service, it's great events and content.
Faith in MMO devs sure is lacking... there is a lot of criticism going on in the MMO market. The real question is, does anyone believe "their" dream MMO could be made with a $14.99 per month plan? I just don't see it happening, if I try to think of the things I'd want in my MMO it would require much more than $14.99.
I think you are looking at this wrong, honestly. The monthly fee is for maintenance and to keep everything going, plus make some proffit.
The problem lies in the initial development and business plan. That's where everyone is getting screwed.
Changing the monthly fee is not going to improve the game, just fatten peoples pockets.
The bottom line is, no company is going to look for busy work for employees. They will hire exactly the amount of people they need to complete a job and no more(most likely less than they need.)
No matter how much money you shovel at them a month its not going to change.
D.
Thats just it, customers never praise. Their expectations always exceed their payments. When a customer is satisfied you hear nothing, when a customer complains they want their voices heard by everything under the sun. That is the nature of the consumer.
Your argument is flawed... the $14.99 does not go to the development costs of the game, just the maintenance. So yes I believe the Devs' perfect MMO can be made on $14.99 since it has nothing to do with the ideas and concepts that go into making a game.
Like someone on here already said... You cannot buy imagination...
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
lol i hate to break it to you but there is a large percentage of the community that are children whos parents may not pay 30 dollars a month. Personally Im 16 and I have to pay for whatever I play, I always have, and I wouldnt be able to play if it was any more.
Archlord was an excellent example because they actually tried it.It only proved that a higher monthly fee didn't do anything for the actual game
The game hardly is worth playing for free but at one point they charge UP TO 39.99 a month for it.
Believe what you want. You wanna shell out more cash for grind games, go for it. Try SOE and see if you think their "package deal" is any good. 30 bucks a month gets you a whole lot of junk to choose from.
I don't think you are on the same page here.I don't think many people want to pay 30 bucks just for the option of multiple MMO games.
ALSO ARCHLORD IS A HORRIBLE example because it's not even as good as some Free to Play games. A game offering $30 a month would have to make World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Lotro look like Free to Play games in comparison. Obviously for a game to do this they would need more staff and a bigger game budget to offer such a monthly fee. It would need to be polished and not rushed, many games rush themselves because they feel each month they are losing potential monthly fees where examples have proven players are willing to pay monthly while the company works on a game.
Screw package deals, SOE is horrible, their Customer Support is horrible, all their games are subpar.
I see your point about being will to pay more IF a company offered the value. Thats a very big IF. Your entire premise is based on the assumption that if we give them more money they will reinvest into the game.....you assume to much from a corporation.Personally I am very skeptical of it as there are to many games out there outside of MMOs that are free online and offer a great player experience. (BF series, NWN series....just look at anything non-mmo) More monthly fees are just going to drive players away no matter how you slice it. Especially with the track record MMOs have. First they need to start CONSISTANTLY making quality products. You need to learn to crawl before you can walk. MMO quality is the joke of the gaming industry. A higher price is no guarantee of higher quality, in fact in business, low quality is often masked by premium prices.
You are missing my point on Archlord. They tried to charge a higher monthly fee promising a better play experience and more benefits based on your pricing. That is exactly what you are advocating. It is proof that higher fees do not guarantee better games.
MMO devs need to master the current state of the games before they move onto "we can charge more money because our games will be better".
Again, would have Vanguard been any different if the fee was 19.99 or 29.99?
Why are LotRs sales so sluggish especially when they actually went DOWN in pricing? (founders program 9.99) The quality is there. The monthly fee amount guarantees nothing.
I'd like it to be $9.99 a month but with companies with more than 2 mmorpgs like NCsoft or SOE it would be nice to pay like $20 to playa ll of them.
$/€ 15.- is totaly ok I find. If a game has enough players, it will cover the cost and make some profit. I honestly do belive they should make a profit. I am a game developer/programmer myself, the amount of hard work that is put in developing a game is huge. Let them have some reward for giving up their weekend, nights etc. Hehe.
I look at it in a different manner. I pay 15.- a month for something which I can enjoy 24/7 for 30/31 days. Going out once for a meal will cost me loads more than that and will be over in a few hours.
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Do I ever sleep?
Sure, I'm not arguing against a company making profit.
Thats what corporations do (and they make their money, trust me...you don't exactly see bunches of these games shutting down, do you???). All I am saying is thinking that a game will be better if they raise the fees is not the way to go, you are just fooling yourself, ESPECIALLY given the track history these games have. Most of them hardly work when they launch and only a handful ever really make a significant impact subscription wise. 15 a month is a fair price right now but if crap like Vanguard keeps happening....well then no, 15 a month is to much
To Torak, you can interpret what I mean what you want, but Archlord isn't a good example. I know exactly what you are saying but offering $15ish per month to some and $40 to others is not what I'm aiming at. That would exclude some players from services when in a game I'm all for "everyone put 5 dollars in, winner takes all". It would only cater to "elite customer service and ingame advantages". I'm not putting the system down, but it's not much different than F2P models with cash shops. A model that would work is a "AAA" MMO at $30 a month with stellar customer support and GM interaction. Of course we would need to wait a few years for something like this.
How much is Age of Conan going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
How much is WAR going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
Aion? Tabula Rasa? Probably 14.99.
At least LOTRO tried something with undercutting the MMO market with a 9.99 model and a lifetime model.
To Torak, you can interpret what I mean what you want, but Archlord isn't a good example. I know exactly what you are saying but offering $15ish per month to some and $40 to others is not what I'm aiming at. That would exclude some players from services when in a game I'm all for "everyone put 5 dollars in, winner takes all". It would only cater to "elite customer service and ingame advantages". I'm not putting the system down, but it's not much different than F2P models with cash shops. A model that would work is a "AAA" MMO at $30 a month with stellar customer support and GM interaction. Of course we would need to wait a few years for something like this.
How much is Age of Conan going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
How much is WAR going to be priced at? Probably 14.99
Aion? Tabula Rasa? Probably 14.99.
At least LOTRO tried something with undercutting the MMO market with a 9.99 model and a lifetime model.
Making people pay more makes no difference. The only reason they would remotely try harder to keep you at 30 bucks is because they priced themselves out of the market. The pool of players willing to pay that much would be too low and thus the game...if it were even worth it would have low subs. The low subs would be what actually kept them trying to keep you more.
30 bucks at this time is a no go........ and will not work.
If you believe that...you are truly naive. The only way a single customer will really matter to a company is if they cost them millions..not 15$, 30$ or even 45$.
D.
I couldn't agree more. I started on MMOs when I was barely 15 and had to pony up the subscription fees from my own allowance. There's a significant teen population in MMOs these days, especially with respect to WoW and a price hike would cut some of these people off. I actually don't know that many who have their parents pay the fee for them, other than those who are fortunate enough to also have gaming parents.