Stupidity is still spreading ... now people asking for things to cost more for no reason.Yeahd id love to pay 1000 $ per month for a MMOG,please all MMOGs CHARGE us 1000 $ per month !!!!!
Here's a thought: would you rather join a dating service that cost $50, or one that cost $10,000? Companies like that exist, and the reason is that the money itself is a sort of filter.
Having a fee in the first place discourages kids from playing. People with jobs will not be so discouraged. It invites a sense of investment in the game. This contributes to better communities in ptp than ftp games.
I imagine that there would be a market for a $100/mo strictly enforced roleplaying server, for example. Roleplayers like to play with other serious roleplayers, and such a high price would demand a high commitment, seriousness to the subject matter, and (very important) a job. Likewise, there is probably an upscale market ($30+) for a seriously nannied server for kids (all dialogue monitored, no griefing, no one over 18 if we can help it, etc... BTW, did you see Disney paid $350m for the Penguin game?).
End of discussion, really. A company is not motivated to provide better quality service nor a better quality game because their pockets are fatter. You could have said the same the exact same thing about $10->$15. Hell, there are probably free to play games that have better service than many p2p games, and have more content updates and events, but people still pay the $15 for a crap game with crap service.
People are quite willing to pour money into online worlds, just look at Second Life, for example. A 30$ per month title would have to be something special to attract customers, however.
Why is every pay per month game using the same payment system? It's either 9.99 per month or 14.99 per month and maybe expansion pack fees and startup fees. Companies should get more innovative and increase monthly subscription fees and add more quality or features and monthly event content to the games they market. Is it really that much to ask if a company starts asking for 24.99 or 29.99 per month? You get what you pay for, I hear time and time again players complaining about customer service, or the lack of good events in a game, or the lack of content updates. You get what you pay for, which is everyones flat rate of 14.99 maximum, how much does that give you per month? It pays enough to allow 1 general event per month for everyone, a "few" bot bans and automated support ticket messages. If game companies would realize the market there is for a more "expensive" than the standard 14.99 per month, there wouldn't be as many customer support complaints, there would be better content and quality in general. How much would you say you spent per month before you started playing your favorite MMO? I'm pretty sure playing your favorite MMO has saved you money in the long run even. Less movies you rent from your local Video rental store. Less console and PC games you buy not of the MMO genre and less of everything else you'd buy. For me I was buying one PC/Console game about every month, usually cost me about $40 a month on average just buying new games, now I might buy one every 6 months while playing my favorite MMO, and that alone has considerably lowered how much I spend on my entertainment. I think everyone else feels the same way, which helps contribute to buying Gold online and 2boxing accounts. To most people $15 a month is a brush off compared to them playing 15+ hours a week. For their favorite entertainment they are willing to pay a bucket load to enjoy the game all the more, they invest in more accounts and buy Gold online. They do this obviously to increase the entertainment value of their MMO, to decrease in doing the jobs they hate (usually grinding levels/gear) and increase in doing the jobs they have fun doing (usually pvp/raids). All the money being made by 3rd party gold sellers could be put to use in an increased monthly rate and increase as I've said before the quality of the game overall. Anyone else agree with me on this?
This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas a MMO company would need to improve on in order to increase the $14.99 per month fee mainstream in the current titles. Apparently people seem satisfied with their games quality in a whole, and wouldn't shell out a cent more for a better quality game. As was said before the quality of MMO's right now is laughable compared to other games. The only thing that keeps them running is the "Massively" word in the title.
Obviously no game in their current state could afford to run at $30 a month. You can be content with your $15 a month games, they will stay there and will maintain their quality. There is a market for better quality games out there which can be worth up to 29.99 a month. It is also true this wouldn't appeal to kids or teens who can't afford for much more. You are simply not the market a game with this model would exist for.
People complain about bad customer service all the time, horrible in game events, lack of updates or patches to serious problems. But apparently the MMORPG.com community at least isn't willing to pay a dime more a month to help fix these issues.
So is there anything an MMORPG could bring that you would be willing to pay $30 a month for, or anything more than $15. I'm talking about next gen, because it's impractical for any game coming out before 2010 to have such a business model.
It would have to be the greatest, most innovative, most immersive, most customizable MMORPG ever for me to pay more then 20 $Aus per month. They have to have regular live events and a world that's dynamic; it would actually have to be worth more then 20 bucks.
This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas a MMO company would need to improve on in order to increase the $14.99 per month fee mainstream in the current titles. Apparently people seem satisfied with their games quality in a whole, and wouldn't shell out a cent more for a better quality game. As was said before the quality of MMO's right now is laughable compared to other games. The only thing that keeps them running is the "Massively" word in the title. Obviously no game in their current state could afford to run at $30 a month. You can be content with your $15 a month games, they will stay there and will maintain their quality. There is a market for better quality games out there which can be worth up to 29.99 a month. It is also true this wouldn't appeal to kids or teens who can't afford for much more. You are simply not the market a game with this model would exist for. People complain about bad customer service all the time, horrible in game events, lack of updates or patches to serious problems. But apparently the MMORPG.com community at least isn't willing to pay a dime more a month to help fix these issues. So is there anything an MMORPG could bring that you would be willing to pay $30 a month for, or anything more than $15. I'm talking about next gen, because it's impractical for any game coming out before 2010 to have such a business model.
Here are my two cents in terms of improvements I'd be willing to pay for:
Performance/Connectivity/Customer support:
1. More powerful servers, better designed database architecture and better connectivity to data centers.
2. "Live" maintenance, no scheduled downtime, servers would be shut down only during emergencies.
3. More technical and game-play support personnel to reduce waiting times for support.
4. "Live" queue for in-game technical and gameplay support. This would have its own interface which would show you your current position in queue and the estimated waiting time.
5. Extremely stable client and server applications that would amount to never seen before stability.
Client technical features:
1. Integrated voice and video chat, each guild would have its own personal chat lobby with various different rooms defined by the guild leadership.
2. An in-game friend-list that would mimic the features of today's instant messaging clients. The client could also run as a stand-alone executable, meaning you could keep track of all of your friends, whether in-game or not.
3. Highly customizable user interface, unlimited toolbars in terms of shape and quantity. One main feature would be to include an in-game "system tray", where you could keep track of your other applications.
4. In-game browser, using the default browser you've defined in your OS.
5. Unparalleled graphics, performance and stability.
6. Possibility to record game in "replay" format, meaning not rendered to avi. This would enable people to record in-game footage without a major loss in performance. These replay files could then be rendered to avi later.
I won't go into game-play details here, as I'm into many different types of games. Needless to say, whatever the system, it'd need to be top-notch as well.
This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas a MMO company would need to improve on in order to increase the $14.99 per month fee mainstream in the current titles. Apparently people seem satisfied with their games quality in a whole, and wouldn't shell out a cent more for a better quality game. As was said before the quality of MMO's right now is laughable compared to other games. The only thing that keeps them running is the "Massively" word in the title. Obviously no game in their current state could afford to run at $30 a month. You can be content with your $15 a month games, they will stay there and will maintain their quality. There is a market for better quality games out there which can be worth up to 29.99 a month. It is also true this wouldn't appeal to kids or teens who can't afford for much more. You are simply not the market a game with this model would exist for. People complain about bad customer service all the time, horrible in game events, lack of updates or patches to serious problems. But apparently the MMORPG.com community at least isn't willing to pay a dime more a month to help fix these issues. So is there anything an MMORPG could bring that you would be willing to pay $30 a month for, or anything more than $15. I'm talking about next gen, because it's impractical for any game coming out before 2010 to have such a business model.
Unless I misread your opening post, You didnt ask us to brainstorm, you asked if we agree with you?
This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas a MMO company would need to improve on in order to increase the $14.99 per month fee mainstream in the current titles. Apparently people seem satisfied with their games quality in a whole, and wouldn't shell out a cent more for a better quality game. As was said before the quality of MMO's right now is laughable compared to other games. The only thing that keeps them running is the "Massively" word in the title. Obviously no game in their current state could afford to run at $30 a month. You can be content with your $15 a month games, they will stay there and will maintain their quality. There is a market for better quality games out there which can be worth up to 29.99 a month. It is also true this wouldn't appeal to kids or teens who can't afford for much more. You are simply not the market a game with this model would exist for. People complain about bad customer service all the time, horrible in game events, lack of updates or patches to serious problems. But apparently the MMORPG.com community at least isn't willing to pay a dime more a month to help fix these issues. So is there anything an MMORPG could bring that you would be willing to pay $30 a month for, or anything more than $15. I'm talking about next gen, because it's impractical for any game coming out before 2010 to have such a business model.
Here are my two cents in terms of improvements I'd be willing to pay for:
Performance/Connectivity/Customer support:
1. More powerful servers, better designed database architecture and better connectivity to data centers.
2. "Live" maintenance, no scheduled downtime, servers would be shut down only during emergencies.
3. More technical and game-play support personnel to reduce waiting times for support.
4. "Live" queue for in-game technical and gameplay support. This would have its own interface which would show you your current position in queue and the estimated waiting time.
5. Extremely stable client and server applications that would amount to never seen before stability.
Client technical features:
1. Integrated voice and video chat, each guild would have its own personal chat lobby with various different rooms defined by the guild leadership.
2. An in-game friend-list that would mimic the features of today's instant messaging clients. The client could also run as a stand-alone executable, meaning you could keep track of all of your friends, whether in-game or not.
3. Highly customizable user interface, unlimited toolbars in terms of shape and quantity. One main feature would be to include an in-game "system tray", where you could keep track of your other applications.
4. In-game browser, using the default browser you've defined in your OS.
5. Unparalleled graphics, performance and stability.
6. Possibility to record game in "replay" format, meaning not rendered to avi. This would enable people to record in-game footage without a major loss in performance. These replay files could then be rendered to avi later.
I won't go into game-play details here, as I'm into many different types of games. Needless to say, whatever the system, it'd need to be top-notch as well.
If were brainstorming, then everythign he said....plus a game that is FUN. Of course im still not sure that would even be worth 30 bucks a month.
Even if it might be hard to understand, the fact is still that people who are 20+, have an income and are willing to pay anything because they're so bloody blind, is not the target audience.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas a MMO company would need to improve on in order to increase the $14.99 per month fee mainstream in the current titles. Apparently people seem satisfied with their games quality in a whole, and wouldn't shell out a cent more for a better quality game. As was said before the quality of MMO's right now is laughable compared to other games. The only thing that keeps them running is the "Massively" word in the title. Obviously no game in their current state could afford to run at $30 a month. You can be content with your $15 a month games, they will stay there and will maintain their quality. There is a market for better quality games out there which can be worth up to 29.99 a month. It is also true this wouldn't appeal to kids or teens who can't afford for much more. You are simply not the market a game with this model would exist for. People complain about bad customer service all the time, horrible in game events, lack of updates or patches to serious problems. But apparently the MMORPG.com community at least isn't willing to pay a dime more a month to help fix these issues. So is there anything an MMORPG could bring that you would be willing to pay $30 a month for, or anything more than $15. I'm talking about next gen, because it's impractical for any game coming out before 2010 to have such a business model.
Here are my two cents in terms of improvements I'd be willing to pay for:
Performance/Connectivity/Customer support:
1. More powerful servers, better designed database architecture and better connectivity to data centers.
2. "Live" maintenance, no scheduled downtime, servers would be shut down only during emergencies.
3. More technical and game-play support personnel to reduce waiting times for support.
4. "Live" queue for in-game technical and gameplay support. This would have its own interface which would show you your current position in queue and the estimated waiting time.
5. Extremely stable client and server applications that would amount to never seen before stability.
Client technical features:
1. Integrated voice and video chat, each guild would have its own personal chat lobby with various different rooms defined by the guild leadership.
2. An in-game friend-list that would mimic the features of today's instant messaging clients. The client could also run as a stand-alone executable, meaning you could keep track of all of your friends, whether in-game or not.
3. Highly customizable user interface, unlimited toolbars in terms of shape and quantity. One main feature would be to include an in-game "system tray", where you could keep track of your other applications.
4. In-game browser, using the default browser you've defined in your OS.
5. Unparalleled graphics, performance and stability.
6. Possibility to record game in "replay" format, meaning not rendered to avi. This would enable people to record in-game footage without a major loss in performance. These replay files could then be rendered to avi later.
I won't go into game-play details here, as I'm into many different types of games. Needless to say, whatever the system, it'd need to be top-notch as well.
I like a lot of these points. Many of these are already implemented in some games out there now, so they aren't unreachable. Obviously you'd expect to have the best servers you could find on the market, and they would be better provided the extra per month. Live maintenance would be a great feature, it would be nice to be able to leave items on the ground and not fear the server crashing and losing those items, it would be a big factor in the next gen games if they were able to do this. Customer support is the main target on this, I believe Customer support is a main factor in most industries in North America because people simply don't have time to wait in line for problems to be resolved.
Is there a game yet who has been smart enough to build in Teamspeak or Ventrillo type application into their game? It boggles my mind how games have yet to implement support for such programs. If so many are using TS/Vent as 3rd party programs while playing the game then it shows a demand for in game support for easy access. A good thing Lineage 2 already has MSN supported client side, you can actually talk to people not in game using it. Too bad the client is very crude and is missing many important features, especially relaying a message every once in awhile informing everyone that someone is using the client in lineage 2 and that NCSoft is monitoring their conversation, doesn't really encourage me to use it. It would also be great if the game could operate as a semi Operating System where you can do all your other tasks such as Microsoft Word and Internet Browsing. Many games already use HTML clients to access browser based information. The graphics would have to be as good as some of the best graphics you see in todays games. As for Replay recording, I've seen that in Lineage 2 as well, however it falls short. It needs to have options of showing the players UI or not. In lineage 2 it doesn't show the UI (No HP/level/skillbars etc) and shows a watermark in the bottom, to top it off after every Chronicle patch, any recorded video can't be replayed in the updated client, so systems like these need to be fixed.
You made some good suggestions as to what you'd pay extra per month for. Having all of this couldn't happen in a $14.99 game at least to the professionalism we'd like to see.
This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas a MMO company would need to improve on in order to increase the $14.99 per month fee mainstream in the current titles. Apparently people seem satisfied with their games quality in a whole, and wouldn't shell out a cent more for a better quality game. As was said before the quality of MMO's right now is laughable compared to other games. The only thing that keeps them running is the "Massively" word in the title. Obviously no game in their current state could afford to run at $30 a month. You can be content with your $15 a month games, they will stay there and will maintain their quality. There is a market for better quality games out there which can be worth up to 29.99 a month. It is also true this wouldn't appeal to kids or teens who can't afford for much more. You are simply not the market a game with this model would exist for. People complain about bad customer service all the time, horrible in game events, lack of updates or patches to serious problems. But apparently the MMORPG.com community at least isn't willing to pay a dime more a month to help fix these issues. So is there anything an MMORPG could bring that you would be willing to pay $30 a month for, or anything more than $15. I'm talking about next gen, because it's impractical for any game coming out before 2010 to have such a business model.
Ok, if a company said "hey are gonna make a super MMO and its gonna cost X amount more" here is what I would want. These are just off the cuff remarks and I reserve the right to change or delete them on a whim
Non- grind based play. Killing 10 rats, bats or elephents is no fun. Its not a "quest" its not "immersive" its a busy work chore that appeals to knotheads with no imagination. I don't think our current dev talent in the industry has the ability to do this.
A compelling reason to keep playing. Getting a higher number or getting more "kill 10 goblin" chores at the next level is NOT compelling gameplay.
Challenging gameplay - why are my MMOs that I pay a month fee for as it is, less challenging then my kids playstation games?
Voice overs - now this shouldn't even be in here. voiceover are a standard of every game genre BUT MMO's. I am tired of playing in the land of the MMO mutes who give generic "hellos" when I interact with them. Back 10 years ago, it was understandable now, it just cutting corners to save money. EVERY, I mean EVERY other game genre has this but ours.
Total and complete ability to customize everything. Cloths, armor. weapons, houses, vehicles, castles, forts (whatever genre) towns..whatever you got, you should be able to customize it appearence and abilities.
Perfect, I mean perfect technical performance. Crap like Vanguard deserves a lawsuit frankly. I don't have to worry about a console game running, If I am going to play a PC game it had better work as the specs say it will. The last thing I want to be doing after dropping 50 bucks and signing up for a subscription is dicking around trying to make a game work on a system that is more then enough to play it.
Actual customer service. There goes most of your money in fees. Professional CS doesn't work for free.
GM who actually do events, not this crap they do now. There goes another significant portion of money. Smaller scale and on a more personal (or closer to personal ) level, server events are only a part.
Gold seller HUNTERS - more customer service people whos job it is to root out and terminate bots and gold sellers...more fees....when I report someone, I want some smilely happy CS guy there within minutes to check it out and ban on the spot if necessary.
Unrestricted play ...what I mean is none of this "at level 70 you do this part of gameplay" Either make the game worth playing or don't do it. Putting grind barriers in front of players is just hiding uncreative design and lack of confidence that the game is actually enjoyable and worth playing.
Of course perfectly balanced. Nothing pisses people off more then a nerf. If you want 30 or 40 bucks a month, you change something else not my character or the mechanics.
for 40 bucks a month for example (480 a year) I better be having an awesome time each and every time I log in.
****I'm still not buying into the whole "subs are to low" arguement******
Now add in all the subjective crap we all cry about on an hourly basis here and to be honest, its just not gonna happen. If you get fees to this type of level your customers are going to very very touchy to say the least. One wrong move and you could destroy the customer base. People are gonna piss and moan about EVERYTHING and throw that fee in the companies face at every turn.
No MMO will ever cost, or even be worth $30 a month. Nor, should they ever cost $30 a month (yes, in 25 years, maybe, with inflation). It's stupidly over-pricing something that just wont ever be worth it.
The $15 a month is put in place to cover maintence fees, paychecks, etc. Obviously some is put aside for further development. The $15 a month is by far sufficient enough to fund further development, so any increase just isn't pratical for any reason. Except, obviously for people like the OP who like to give money away.
Lets put it this way:
The game is AMAZING! It costs $30 a month!
likely sceneario is only "a half than normal amount" of people play it because of the monthly cost alone, so the turn around is actually the same. They could cut the cost in half and gain double or more players. Simple.
I like a lot of these points. Many of these are already implemented in some games out there now, so they aren't unreachable. Obviously you'd expect to have the best servers you could find on the market, and they would be better provided the extra per month. Live maintenance would be a great feature, it would be nice to be able to leave items on the ground and not fear the server crashing and losing those items, it would be a big factor in the next gen games if they were able to do this. Customer support is the main target on this, I believe Customer support is a main factor in most industries in North America because people simply don't have time to wait in line for problems to be resolved.
Is there a game yet who has been smart enough to build in Teamspeak or Ventrillo type application into their game? It boggles my mind how games have yet to implement support for such programs. If so many are using TS/Vent as 3rd party programs while playing the game then it shows a demand for in game support for easy access. A good thing Lineage 2 already has MSN supported client side, you can actually talk to people not in game using it. Too bad the client is very crude and is missing many important features, especially relaying a message every once in awhile informing everyone that someone is using the client in lineage 2 and that NCSoft is monitoring their conversation, doesn't really encourage me to use it. It would also be great if the game could operate as a semi Operating System where you can do all your other tasks such as Microsoft Word and Internet Browsing. Many games already use HTML clients to access browser based information. The graphics would have to be as good as some of the best graphics you see in todays games. As for Replay recording, I've seen that in Lineage 2 as well, however it falls short. It needs to have options of showing the players UI or not. In lineage 2 it doesn't show the UI (No HP/level/skillbars etc) and shows a watermark in the bottom, to top it off after every Chronicle patch, any recorded video can't be replayed in the updated client, so systems like these need to be fixed.
You made some good suggestions as to what you'd pay extra per month for. Having all of this couldn't happen in a $14.99 game at least to the professionalism we'd like to see.
Yes, a lot of my listed features are already implemented in one way or an other in an already released title. Like you typed, this makes them realistic expectations and not daydreams. I hope there are devs out there who actually take a look at posts which suggest sensible and practical new client features instead of all the flames around lore and gameplay. The fact is, if you don't have a flexible, smooth and stable client, the gameplay will simply not be up to par. Once you have a solid base to build your gameplay elements on, it makes the jobs of developers muc, much easier.
I'm waiting for that one perfect game that doesn't leave me thinking "Wow, what a great game, but I just wish they and that and that.." but just the "Wow, that was a great game.". There aren't many titles that have left me just admiring the work of the development team. Honestly, the only one I can name now is the original Quake. It was so groundbreaking there really wasn't much else you could expect. I hope they release a Quake of MMORPGs soon, WoW certainly wasn't it.
No MMO will ever cost, or even be worth $30 a month. Nor, should they ever cost $30 a month (yes, in 25 years, maybe, with inflation). It's stupidly over-pricing something that just wont ever be worth it. The $15 a month is put in place to cover maintence fees, paychecks, etc. Obviously some is put aside for further development. The $15 a month is by far sufficient enough to fund further development, so any increase just isn't pratical for any reason. Except, obviously for people like the OP who like to give money away. Lets put it this way: The game is AMAZING! It costs $30 a month! likely sceneario is only "a half than normal amount" of people play it because of the monthly cost alone, so the turn around is actually the same. They could cut the cost in half and gain double or more players. Simple.
Right... I like to give money away.
Am I the only one who loves MMORPG's but is willing to pay for better quality service? I problably spend 4hours a day on average playing MMORPG's, it's a hobby and I enjoy it. Let's be honest, other hobbies cost more. Playing an MMORPG is one of the cheapest hobbies you can pick. You aren't going to get a quality MMO for $15 a month, at least I don't see it. For me, I don't box 2 accounts (half of Lineage 2 do, so thats plenty of players willing to pay $30 a month right there) or waste money like buying 3rd party gold or any of the like. So placing me as someone who just wants to throw money away is further from the truth, I'm in college and I can't afford to pay much for an MMO, but if the quality is there it would be worth it.
The bottom line you don't understand is, paying more monthly fee's is not going to convince the industry to provide better service. If a game is going to do it, they will do it on their own due to their own standards.
The only thing realistic that would make it worth it, like I said before, would honestly be for a niche game with a small subscription base to begin with.
MMO's are like fast food. The more people you are serving at the same time, the crappier the service is due simply to the vast amount of people.
For example, when I was in the service, I went to many "galleys" to eat. For the most part they all had crap food because they were serving a couple thousand soldiers/sailors a day.
When I was in Japan I went to a galley that only served a couple hundred, if that a day.
The food was actually really good consistantly.
There's the rub. The more people you have, the harder it is to provide high quality service to them.
If you charged more, you'd have a smaller "niche" audience. You could serve them better because you'd have a couple thousand people instead of fifty thousand. You would HAVE to charge more to provide this service due to the low subscription numbers.
I gave many ideas about 7 pages ago. The bottom line you don't understand is, paying more monthly fee's is not going to convince the industry to provide better service. If a game is going to do it, they will do it on their own due to their own standards. The only thing realistic that would make it worth it, like I said before, would honestly be for a niche game with a small subscription base to begin with. MMO's are like fast food. The more people you are serving at the same time, the crappier the service is due simply to the vast amount of people. For example, when I was in the service, I went to many "galleys" to eat. For the most part they all had crap food because they were serving a couple thousand soldiers/sailors a day. When I was in Japan I went to a galley that only served a couple hundred, if that a day. The food was actually really good consistantly. There's the rub. The more people you have, the harder it is to provide high quality service to them. If you charged more, you'd have a smaller "niche" audience. You could serve them better because you'd have a couple thousand people instead of fifty thousand. You would HAVE to charge more to provide this service due to the low subscription numbers. It's what is referred to as a "catch 22" D.
I think what you're describing depends on the service provided and the main concepts and implementation of the service. For example, a quality amusement park is usually big. The best ice-hockey arenas are also some of the world's biggest, this includes the services they provide.
Yes, in terms of food, you can not get gourmet at a galley serving thousands of people. However, you can get quality food at large foodhalls or markets around the world which also serve thousands of people a day. All in all, it is very relative. Niche does not necessarily mean good and a popular MMO doesn't have to amount to substandard service.
I gave many ideas about 7 pages ago. The bottom line you don't understand is, paying more monthly fee's is not going to convince the industry to provide better service. If a game is going to do it, they will do it on their own due to their own standards. The only thing realistic that would make it worth it, like I said before, would honestly be for a niche game with a small subscription base to begin with. MMO's are like fast food. The more people you are serving at the same time, the crappier the service is due simply to the vast amount of people. For example, when I was in the service, I went to many "galleys" to eat. For the most part they all had crap food because they were serving a couple thousand soldiers/sailors a day. When I was in Japan I went to a galley that only served a couple hundred, if that a day. The food was actually really good consistantly. There's the rub. The more people you have, the harder it is to provide high quality service to them. If you charged more, you'd have a smaller "niche" audience. You could serve them better because you'd have a couple thousand people instead of fifty thousand. You would HAVE to charge more to provide this service due to the low subscription numbers. It's what is referred to as a "catch 22" D.
I somewhat find Fast Food restaurants do a good job with customer service, actually they thrive on it, they need to be fast and efficient and their food must be better than the competition. They employ a large amount of minimum wage teenagers behind the counter to guarantee you get your food fast, and it's not that cheap and not that expensive. People go out and they prefer fine dining to a fast food restaurant because the food quality is there and will spend the extra money for it, and it certainly isn't a niche market.
Stop saying the "bottom line" like your stating facts. I do understand and this isn't about telling a company to charge me more money in hopes they will keep their side of the bargain. It's all about a company putting the effort and budget into a "blockbuster mmo" to earn their $30 a month, there is no other way around. I'm not going to go and ask the dev's of the MMO I'm playing to increase their monthly fee in hopes they will hire more employees and treat me better. The company needs to make the first move and it certainly wouldn't be a niche market. A couple thousand subs? Please. Theres probably 20,000 players in NA Lineage 2 paying for multiple accounts just because of the party system. It makes it easier and more fun and they are willing to pay essentially twice the amount of normal players just to have 1 character auto follow all day.
$15 a month seems to be allowing for the folk working for EQ2 a great deal of money to spend on enhancing their game. I've seen more changes and additions to things for it than other MMOs I have played... And if the price would go up to $25 or 30 I would definitely quit. Any video game isn't worth $50+30+30... to me, at least. I think I'd just go back, and stick with, my console games if that happened, as MMOs are pretty much the only reason I play games on the computer anymore.
Not that I can't see the opener's idea. If you whine about service being crappy and lack of updates, and the reason for that is not enough cash flow, then you better be willing to pay more for what you want. It's like people who whine about schools being run-down and our roads being crappy, but wanting our taxes lowered even more. You can't get extra services without being willing to pay for them in some form or another.
No MMO will ever cost, or even be worth $30 a month. Nor, should they ever cost $30 a month (yes, in 25 years, maybe, with inflation). It's stupidly over-pricing something that just wont ever be worth it. The $15 a month is put in place to cover maintence fees, paychecks, etc. Obviously some is put aside for further development. The $15 a month is by far sufficient enough to fund further development, so any increase just isn't pratical for any reason. Except, obviously for people like the OP who like to give money away. Lets put it this way: The game is AMAZING! It costs $30 a month! likely sceneario is only "a half than normal amount" of people play it because of the monthly cost alone, so the turn around is actually the same. They could cut the cost in half and gain double or more players. Simple.
Right... I like to give money away.
Am I the only one who loves MMORPG's but is willing to pay for better quality service? I problably spend 4hours a day on average playing MMORPG's, it's a hobby and I enjoy it. Let's be honest, other hobbies cost more. Playing an MMORPG is one of the cheapest hobbies you can pick. You aren't going to get a quality MMO for $15 a month, at least I don't see it. For me, I don't box 2 accounts (half of Lineage 2 do, so thats plenty of players willing to pay $30 a month right there) or waste money like buying 3rd party gold or any of the like. So placing me as someone who just wants to throw money away is further from the truth, I'm in college and I can't afford to pay much for an MMO, but if the quality is there it would be worth it.
The whole problem with this arguement is this...
The games should be compelling, fun, high quality and whatever else to begin with. As customers we shouldn't have to pay more just to get a more compelling or fun game. Console games are more "fun" in certain gameplay respects. You don't need to pay "extra" to get a higher quality. Features are different, they should be high quality, thats what we pay for. If not, why pay for them monthly? The non-paying game genre is closing the gap between MMOs and non-MMO very rapidly. If MMOs don't get their sh*t together they may find themselves out of a market. Guild Wars and countless free to play in every game genre have already proven that they can offer high quality, fun and compelling gameplay without a fee.
You get what you pay for right? Well why is it I pay the MOST, hundreds of dollars more, then any other gaming genre and get the worse quality?????? Riddle me that.
Better customer service is an issue as personal cost always increase. But thats what we pay a monthly fee for already, right? I can't get customer service in NWN2 when I play online, but its free. I do pay a monthly fee for an MMO so I expect customer service. The fees are going to go up eventually anyway as inflation will drive it up.
The fact of the matter is this, MMOs make profit. You don't see a whole lot go under and the ones that do usually get bought up by someone. Someone is making money on them. How many MMOs actually closed down? 3 maybe 4? Hmmmm......that means they can sustain themselves. Now I don't care about some corps profits (and don't be fooled, thats all they care about as they usually have stockholders) if they want to do more, they can reinvest in their product. Makes business sense. Doing what SOE and Turbine do, throwing expensive after expensive to make products half finished or half thought out and poorly made is just retarded business practices.
Sure if you throw enough sh*t at the wall, something is bound to eventuially stick but look at the cost and the wasted effort. Look at the list on the left and count how many MMOs were actually worth making and more importantly YOU giving your hard earned money to.
Higher subs isn't the answer a Quality product is. Maybe when the quality is mastered some of us would be willing to entertain the idea of a "premium subscription" game but first they need to make a quality game to PROVE to the consumer that the value is actually there.
So far all most MMOs have proven is they have a unique talent for not being able to make working games and charging money to play them. Meanwhile they blatently expect you the customer to be patient while they take an extra 6 months to a year fixing it up. Look at the history. EQII was a mess, SWG is still a mess, DDO, AA, Irith, RFO, D&L, RV, Horizons.....blah blah blah.....class action lawsuits is really what MMO players should be taking about after years of getting it in the rump and having to pay for it.
Originally posted by Hrothmund Originally posted by daelnor I gave many ideas about 7 pages ago. The bottom line you don't understand is, paying more monthly fee's is not going to convince the industry to provide better service. If a game is going to do it, they will do it on their own due to their own standards. The only thing realistic that would make it worth it, like I said before, would honestly be for a niche game with a small subscription base to begin with. MMO's are like fast food. The more people you are serving at the same time, the crappier the service is due simply to the vast amount of people. For example, when I was in the service, I went to many "galleys" to eat. For the most part they all had crap food because they were serving a couple thousand soldiers/sailors a day. When I was in Japan I went to a galley that only served a couple hundred, if that a day. The food was actually really good consistantly. There's the rub. The more people you have, the harder it is to provide high quality service to them. If you charged more, you'd have a smaller "niche" audience. You could serve them better because you'd have a couple thousand people instead of fifty thousand. You would HAVE to charge more to provide this service due to the low subscription numbers. It's what is referred to as a "catch 22" D.
I think what you're describing depends on the service provided and the main concepts and implementation of the service. For example, a quality amusement park is usually big. The best ice-hockey arenas are also some of the world's biggest, this includes the services they provide.
Yes, in terms of food, you can not get gourmet at a galley serving thousands of people. However, you can get quality food at large foodhalls or markets around the world which also serve thousands of people a day. All in all, it is very relative. Niche does not necessarily mean good and a popular MMO doesn't have to amount to substandard service.
This applies in reference to the OP. What he is asking for will not be improved by raising monthly fee's, it would simply be pocketed by execs or dumped into a new development.
There are games out there now with "quality" service and no $30 a month fee. Raising the fee to $30 a month would not solve anything but how a CEO is going to buy his fifteenth house.
What I am trying to say, and I could have found a better example I suppose, is the only difference I could see that paying extra a month would actually work, would be real time activities by the devs, in the form of GM interaction, live quests, making the game more personal. I think people would buy off on that, but you can't do that with 50,000 people really, though you could pull it off for a few thousand. It won't work with a mainstream game, it would cost waaay too much. It would pretty much be for an exclusive audience that was willing to pay more.
Such as(going back to food again) the difference between chili's and a 5 star resteraunt with a 60 year waiting list and $500 dollar a plate meals.
Torak I think we are both looking for the same thing but we both have a different view about how to fix it. I believe I made it confusing and I'm being perfectly clear that I 100% agree with most of what you say, however I completely disagree with your argument on why games never get shut down. It's because the costs are usually always in production, and there are TONS of MMO's you just don't see because they don't get far enough, and those that get out there and flop, well they are still making money because you can still somewhat run a website for a game, run a server and no customer service for extremely low costs, private servers prove this. After a game is created there is no sense in trashing it, there usually is always someone who will play and it will give you at least some income with little expenses. The whole increase in monthly fee is simply that good Customer Service doesn't come cheap, at least not in North America.
first of all, "kids" dont pay the fee, parents do.. an i think they will pay more to keep their kids out of their sight all day.. and i guarantee, every one person that will pay $30, theres 20 that won't.. and no business is going ot limit their market that way
my parents make me pay for my games, and i can tell you paying 30 bucks for a game doesnt sit well with parents.
Comments
Stupidity is still spreading ... now people asking for things to cost more for no reason.Yeahd id love to pay 1000 $ per month for a MMOG,please all MMOGs CHARGE us 1000 $ per month !!!!!
Here's a thought: would you rather join a dating service that cost $50, or one that cost $10,000? Companies like that exist, and the reason is that the money itself is a sort of filter.
Having a fee in the first place discourages kids from playing. People with jobs will not be so discouraged. It invites a sense of investment in the game. This contributes to better communities in ptp than ftp games.
I imagine that there would be a market for a $100/mo strictly enforced roleplaying server, for example. Roleplayers like to play with other serious roleplayers, and such a high price would demand a high commitment, seriousness to the subject matter, and (very important) a job. Likewise, there is probably an upscale market ($30+) for a seriously nannied server for kids (all dialogue monitored, no griefing, no one over 18 if we can help it, etc... BTW, did you see Disney paid $350m for the Penguin game?).
More money in companies pocket /= Better ANYTHING
End of discussion, really. A company is not motivated to provide better quality service nor a better quality game because their pockets are fatter. You could have said the same the exact same thing about $10->$15. Hell, there are probably free to play games that have better service than many p2p games, and have more content updates and events, but people still pay the $15 for a crap game with crap service.
People are quite willing to pour money into online worlds, just look at Second Life, for example. A 30$ per month title would have to be something special to attract customers, however.
not me, $15 is about right in my view.
This thread is meant to brainstorm ideas a MMO company would need to improve on in order to increase the $14.99 per month fee mainstream in the current titles. Apparently people seem satisfied with their games quality in a whole, and wouldn't shell out a cent more for a better quality game. As was said before the quality of MMO's right now is laughable compared to other games. The only thing that keeps them running is the "Massively" word in the title.
Obviously no game in their current state could afford to run at $30 a month. You can be content with your $15 a month games, they will stay there and will maintain their quality. There is a market for better quality games out there which can be worth up to 29.99 a month. It is also true this wouldn't appeal to kids or teens who can't afford for much more. You are simply not the market a game with this model would exist for.
People complain about bad customer service all the time, horrible in game events, lack of updates or patches to serious problems. But apparently the MMORPG.com community at least isn't willing to pay a dime more a month to help fix these issues.
So is there anything an MMORPG could bring that you would be willing to pay $30 a month for, or anything more than $15. I'm talking about next gen, because it's impractical for any game coming out before 2010 to have such a business model.
It would have to be the greatest, most innovative, most immersive, most customizable MMORPG ever for me to pay more then 20 $Aus per month. They have to have regular live events and a world that's dynamic; it would actually have to be worth more then 20 bucks.
Here are my two cents in terms of improvements I'd be willing to pay for:
Performance/Connectivity/Customer support:
1. More powerful servers, better designed database architecture and better connectivity to data centers.
2. "Live" maintenance, no scheduled downtime, servers would be shut down only during emergencies.
3. More technical and game-play support personnel to reduce waiting times for support.
4. "Live" queue for in-game technical and gameplay support. This would have its own interface which would show you your current position in queue and the estimated waiting time.
5. Extremely stable client and server applications that would amount to never seen before stability.
Client technical features:
1. Integrated voice and video chat, each guild would have its own personal chat lobby with various different rooms defined by the guild leadership.
2. An in-game friend-list that would mimic the features of today's instant messaging clients. The client could also run as a stand-alone executable, meaning you could keep track of all of your friends, whether in-game or not.
3. Highly customizable user interface, unlimited toolbars in terms of shape and quantity. One main feature would be to include an in-game "system tray", where you could keep track of your other applications.
4. In-game browser, using the default browser you've defined in your OS.
5. Unparalleled graphics, performance and stability.
6. Possibility to record game in "replay" format, meaning not rendered to avi. This would enable people to record in-game footage without a major loss in performance. These replay files could then be rendered to avi later.
I won't go into game-play details here, as I'm into many different types of games. Needless to say, whatever the system, it'd need to be top-notch as well.
Unless I misread your opening post, You didnt ask us to brainstorm, you asked if we agree with you?
Less e-peen, more brainstorming!
Here are my two cents in terms of improvements I'd be willing to pay for:
Performance/Connectivity/Customer support:
1. More powerful servers, better designed database architecture and better connectivity to data centers.
2. "Live" maintenance, no scheduled downtime, servers would be shut down only during emergencies.
3. More technical and game-play support personnel to reduce waiting times for support.
4. "Live" queue for in-game technical and gameplay support. This would have its own interface which would show you your current position in queue and the estimated waiting time.
5. Extremely stable client and server applications that would amount to never seen before stability.
Client technical features:
1. Integrated voice and video chat, each guild would have its own personal chat lobby with various different rooms defined by the guild leadership.
2. An in-game friend-list that would mimic the features of today's instant messaging clients. The client could also run as a stand-alone executable, meaning you could keep track of all of your friends, whether in-game or not.
3. Highly customizable user interface, unlimited toolbars in terms of shape and quantity. One main feature would be to include an in-game "system tray", where you could keep track of your other applications.
4. In-game browser, using the default browser you've defined in your OS.
5. Unparalleled graphics, performance and stability.
6. Possibility to record game in "replay" format, meaning not rendered to avi. This would enable people to record in-game footage without a major loss in performance. These replay files could then be rendered to avi later.
I won't go into game-play details here, as I'm into many different types of games. Needless to say, whatever the system, it'd need to be top-notch as well.
If were brainstorming, then everythign he said....plus a game that is FUN. Of course im still not sure that would even be worth 30 bucks a month.
Even if it might be hard to understand, the fact is still that people who are 20+, have an income and are willing to pay anything because they're so bloody blind, is not the target audience.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Here are my two cents in terms of improvements I'd be willing to pay for:
Performance/Connectivity/Customer support:
1. More powerful servers, better designed database architecture and better connectivity to data centers.
2. "Live" maintenance, no scheduled downtime, servers would be shut down only during emergencies.
3. More technical and game-play support personnel to reduce waiting times for support.
4. "Live" queue for in-game technical and gameplay support. This would have its own interface which would show you your current position in queue and the estimated waiting time.
5. Extremely stable client and server applications that would amount to never seen before stability.
Client technical features:
1. Integrated voice and video chat, each guild would have its own personal chat lobby with various different rooms defined by the guild leadership.
2. An in-game friend-list that would mimic the features of today's instant messaging clients. The client could also run as a stand-alone executable, meaning you could keep track of all of your friends, whether in-game or not.
3. Highly customizable user interface, unlimited toolbars in terms of shape and quantity. One main feature would be to include an in-game "system tray", where you could keep track of your other applications.
4. In-game browser, using the default browser you've defined in your OS.
5. Unparalleled graphics, performance and stability.
6. Possibility to record game in "replay" format, meaning not rendered to avi. This would enable people to record in-game footage without a major loss in performance. These replay files could then be rendered to avi later.
I won't go into game-play details here, as I'm into many different types of games. Needless to say, whatever the system, it'd need to be top-notch as well.
I like a lot of these points. Many of these are already implemented in some games out there now, so they aren't unreachable. Obviously you'd expect to have the best servers you could find on the market, and they would be better provided the extra per month. Live maintenance would be a great feature, it would be nice to be able to leave items on the ground and not fear the server crashing and losing those items, it would be a big factor in the next gen games if they were able to do this. Customer support is the main target on this, I believe Customer support is a main factor in most industries in North America because people simply don't have time to wait in line for problems to be resolved.Is there a game yet who has been smart enough to build in Teamspeak or Ventrillo type application into their game? It boggles my mind how games have yet to implement support for such programs. If so many are using TS/Vent as 3rd party programs while playing the game then it shows a demand for in game support for easy access. A good thing Lineage 2 already has MSN supported client side, you can actually talk to people not in game using it. Too bad the client is very crude and is missing many important features, especially relaying a message every once in awhile informing everyone that someone is using the client in lineage 2 and that NCSoft is monitoring their conversation, doesn't really encourage me to use it. It would also be great if the game could operate as a semi Operating System where you can do all your other tasks such as Microsoft Word and Internet Browsing. Many games already use HTML clients to access browser based information. The graphics would have to be as good as some of the best graphics you see in todays games. As for Replay recording, I've seen that in Lineage 2 as well, however it falls short. It needs to have options of showing the players UI or not. In lineage 2 it doesn't show the UI (No HP/level/skillbars etc) and shows a watermark in the bottom, to top it off after every Chronicle patch, any recorded video can't be replayed in the updated client, so systems like these need to be fixed.
You made some good suggestions as to what you'd pay extra per month for. Having all of this couldn't happen in a $14.99 game at least to the professionalism we'd like to see.
Non- grind based play. Killing 10 rats, bats or elephents is no fun. Its not a "quest" its not "immersive" its a busy work chore that appeals to knotheads with no imagination. I don't think our current dev talent in the industry has the ability to do this.
A compelling reason to keep playing. Getting a higher number or getting more "kill 10 goblin" chores at the next level is NOT compelling gameplay.
Challenging gameplay - why are my MMOs that I pay a month fee for as it is, less challenging then my kids playstation games?
Voice overs - now this shouldn't even be in here. voiceover are a standard of every game genre BUT MMO's. I am tired of playing in the land of the MMO mutes who give generic "hellos" when I interact with them. Back 10 years ago, it was understandable now, it just cutting corners to save money. EVERY, I mean EVERY other game genre has this but ours.
Total and complete ability to customize everything. Cloths, armor. weapons, houses, vehicles, castles, forts (whatever genre) towns..whatever you got, you should be able to customize it appearence and abilities.
Perfect, I mean perfect technical performance. Crap like Vanguard deserves a lawsuit frankly. I don't have to worry about a console game running, If I am going to play a PC game it had better work as the specs say it will. The last thing I want to be doing after dropping 50 bucks and signing up for a subscription is dicking around trying to make a game work on a system that is more then enough to play it.
Actual customer service. There goes most of your money in fees. Professional CS doesn't work for free.
GM who actually do events, not this crap they do now. There goes another significant portion of money. Smaller scale and on a more personal (or closer to personal ) level, server events are only a part.
Gold seller HUNTERS - more customer service people whos job it is to root out and terminate bots and gold sellers...more fees....when I report someone, I want some smilely happy CS guy there within minutes to check it out and ban on the spot if necessary.
Unrestricted play ...what I mean is none of this "at level 70 you do this part of gameplay" Either make the game worth playing or don't do it. Putting grind barriers in front of players is just hiding uncreative design and lack of confidence that the game is actually enjoyable and worth playing.
Of course perfectly balanced. Nothing pisses people off more then a nerf. If you want 30 or 40 bucks a month, you change something else not my character or the mechanics.
for 40 bucks a month for example (480 a year) I better be having an awesome time each and every time I log in.
****I'm still not buying into the whole "subs are to low" arguement******
Now add in all the subjective crap we all cry about on an hourly basis here and to be honest, its just not gonna happen. If you get fees to this type of level your customers are going to very very touchy to say the least. One wrong move and you could destroy the customer base. People are gonna piss and moan about EVERYTHING and throw that fee in the companies face at every turn.
No MMO will ever cost, or even be worth $30 a month. Nor, should they ever cost $30 a month (yes, in 25 years, maybe, with inflation). It's stupidly over-pricing something that just wont ever be worth it.
The $15 a month is put in place to cover maintence fees, paychecks, etc. Obviously some is put aside for further development. The $15 a month is by far sufficient enough to fund further development, so any increase just isn't pratical for any reason. Except, obviously for people like the OP who like to give money away.
Lets put it this way:
The game is AMAZING! It costs $30 a month!
likely sceneario is only "a half than normal amount" of people play it because of the monthly cost alone, so the turn around is actually the same. They could cut the cost in half and gain double or more players. Simple.
Is there a game yet who has been smart enough to build in Teamspeak or Ventrillo type application into their game? It boggles my mind how games have yet to implement support for such programs. If so many are using TS/Vent as 3rd party programs while playing the game then it shows a demand for in game support for easy access. A good thing Lineage 2 already has MSN supported client side, you can actually talk to people not in game using it. Too bad the client is very crude and is missing many important features, especially relaying a message every once in awhile informing everyone that someone is using the client in lineage 2 and that NCSoft is monitoring their conversation, doesn't really encourage me to use it. It would also be great if the game could operate as a semi Operating System where you can do all your other tasks such as Microsoft Word and Internet Browsing. Many games already use HTML clients to access browser based information. The graphics would have to be as good as some of the best graphics you see in todays games. As for Replay recording, I've seen that in Lineage 2 as well, however it falls short. It needs to have options of showing the players UI or not. In lineage 2 it doesn't show the UI (No HP/level/skillbars etc) and shows a watermark in the bottom, to top it off after every Chronicle patch, any recorded video can't be replayed in the updated client, so systems like these need to be fixed.
You made some good suggestions as to what you'd pay extra per month for. Having all of this couldn't happen in a $14.99 game at least to the professionalism we'd like to see.
Yes, a lot of my listed features are already implemented in one way or an other in an already released title. Like you typed, this makes them realistic expectations and not daydreams. I hope there are devs out there who actually take a look at posts which suggest sensible and practical new client features instead of all the flames around lore and gameplay. The fact is, if you don't have a flexible, smooth and stable client, the gameplay will simply not be up to par. Once you have a solid base to build your gameplay elements on, it makes the jobs of developers muc, much easier.I'm waiting for that one perfect game that doesn't leave me thinking "Wow, what a great game, but I just wish they and that and that.." but just the "Wow, that was a great game.". There aren't many titles that have left me just admiring the work of the development team. Honestly, the only one I can name now is the original Quake. It was so groundbreaking there really wasn't much else you could expect. I hope they release a Quake of MMORPGs soon, WoW certainly wasn't it.
Am I the only one who loves MMORPG's but is willing to pay for better quality service? I problably spend 4hours a day on average playing MMORPG's, it's a hobby and I enjoy it. Let's be honest, other hobbies cost more. Playing an MMORPG is one of the cheapest hobbies you can pick. You aren't going to get a quality MMO for $15 a month, at least I don't see it. For me, I don't box 2 accounts (half of Lineage 2 do, so thats plenty of players willing to pay $30 a month right there) or waste money like buying 3rd party gold or any of the like. So placing me as someone who just wants to throw money away is further from the truth, I'm in college and I can't afford to pay much for an MMO, but if the quality is there it would be worth it.
I gave many ideas about 7 pages ago.
The bottom line you don't understand is, paying more monthly fee's is not going to convince the industry to provide better service. If a game is going to do it, they will do it on their own due to their own standards.
The only thing realistic that would make it worth it, like I said before, would honestly be for a niche game with a small subscription base to begin with.
MMO's are like fast food. The more people you are serving at the same time, the crappier the service is due simply to the vast amount of people.
For example, when I was in the service, I went to many "galleys" to eat. For the most part they all had crap food because they were serving a couple thousand soldiers/sailors a day.
When I was in Japan I went to a galley that only served a couple hundred, if that a day.
The food was actually really good consistantly.
There's the rub. The more people you have, the harder it is to provide high quality service to them.
If you charged more, you'd have a smaller "niche" audience. You could serve them better because you'd have a couple thousand people instead of fifty thousand. You would HAVE to charge more to provide this service due to the low subscription numbers.
It's what is referred to as a "catch 22"
D.
I think what you're describing depends on the service provided and the main concepts and implementation of the service. For example, a quality amusement park is usually big. The best ice-hockey arenas are also some of the world's biggest, this includes the services they provide.
Yes, in terms of food, you can not get gourmet at a galley serving thousands of people. However, you can get quality food at large foodhalls or markets around the world which also serve thousands of people a day. All in all, it is very relative. Niche does not necessarily mean good and a popular MMO doesn't have to amount to substandard service.
Stop saying the "bottom line" like your stating facts. I do understand and this isn't about telling a company to charge me more money in hopes they will keep their side of the bargain. It's all about a company putting the effort and budget into a "blockbuster mmo" to earn their $30 a month, there is no other way around. I'm not going to go and ask the dev's of the MMO I'm playing to increase their monthly fee in hopes they will hire more employees and treat me better. The company needs to make the first move and it certainly wouldn't be a niche market. A couple thousand subs? Please. Theres probably 20,000 players in NA Lineage 2 paying for multiple accounts just because of the party system. It makes it easier and more fun and they are willing to pay essentially twice the amount of normal players just to have 1 character auto follow all day.
$15 a month seems to be allowing for the folk working for EQ2 a great deal of money to spend on enhancing their game. I've seen more changes and additions to things for it than other MMOs I have played... And if the price would go up to $25 or 30 I would definitely quit. Any video game isn't worth $50+30+30... to me, at least. I think I'd just go back, and stick with, my console games if that happened, as MMOs are pretty much the only reason I play games on the computer anymore.
Not that I can't see the opener's idea. If you whine about service being crappy and lack of updates, and the reason for that is not enough cash flow, then you better be willing to pay more for what you want. It's like people who whine about schools being run-down and our roads being crappy, but wanting our taxes lowered even more. You can't get extra services without being willing to pay for them in some form or another.
Right... I like to give money away.Am I the only one who loves MMORPG's but is willing to pay for better quality service? I problably spend 4hours a day on average playing MMORPG's, it's a hobby and I enjoy it. Let's be honest, other hobbies cost more. Playing an MMORPG is one of the cheapest hobbies you can pick. You aren't going to get a quality MMO for $15 a month, at least I don't see it. For me, I don't box 2 accounts (half of Lineage 2 do, so thats plenty of players willing to pay $30 a month right there) or waste money like buying 3rd party gold or any of the like. So placing me as someone who just wants to throw money away is further from the truth, I'm in college and I can't afford to pay much for an MMO, but if the quality is there it would be worth it.
The whole problem with this arguement is this...
The games should be compelling, fun, high quality and whatever else to begin with. As customers we shouldn't have to pay more just to get a more compelling or fun game. Console games are more "fun" in certain gameplay respects. You don't need to pay "extra" to get a higher quality. Features are different, they should be high quality, thats what we pay for. If not, why pay for them monthly? The non-paying game genre is closing the gap between MMOs and non-MMO very rapidly. If MMOs don't get their sh*t together they may find themselves out of a market. Guild Wars and countless free to play in every game genre have already proven that they can offer high quality, fun and compelling gameplay without a fee.
You get what you pay for right? Well why is it I pay the MOST, hundreds of dollars more, then any other gaming genre and get the worse quality?????? Riddle me that.
Better customer service is an issue as personal cost always increase. But thats what we pay a monthly fee for already, right? I can't get customer service in NWN2 when I play online, but its free. I do pay a monthly fee for an MMO so I expect customer service. The fees are going to go up eventually anyway as inflation will drive it up.
The fact of the matter is this, MMOs make profit. You don't see a whole lot go under and the ones that do usually get bought up by someone. Someone is making money on them. How many MMOs actually closed down? 3 maybe 4? Hmmmm......that means they can sustain themselves. Now I don't care about some corps profits (and don't be fooled, thats all they care about as they usually have stockholders) if they want to do more, they can reinvest in their product. Makes business sense. Doing what SOE and Turbine do, throwing expensive after expensive to make products half finished or half thought out and poorly made is just retarded business practices.
Sure if you throw enough sh*t at the wall, something is bound to eventuially stick but look at the cost and the wasted effort. Look at the list on the left and count how many MMOs were actually worth making and more importantly YOU giving your hard earned money to.
Higher subs isn't the answer a Quality product is. Maybe when the quality is mastered some of us would be willing to entertain the idea of a "premium subscription" game but first they need to make a quality game to PROVE to the consumer that the value is actually there.
So far all most MMOs have proven is they have a unique talent for not being able to make working games and charging money to play them. Meanwhile they blatently expect you the customer to be patient while they take an extra 6 months to a year fixing it up. Look at the history. EQII was a mess, SWG is still a mess, DDO, AA, Irith, RFO, D&L, RV, Horizons.....blah blah blah.....class action lawsuits is really what MMO players should be taking about after years of getting it in the rump and having to pay for it.
Yes, in terms of food, you can not get gourmet at a galley serving thousands of people. However, you can get quality food at large foodhalls or markets around the world which also serve thousands of people a day. All in all, it is very relative. Niche does not necessarily mean good and a popular MMO doesn't have to amount to substandard service.
This applies in reference to the OP. What he is asking for will not be improved by raising monthly fee's, it would simply be pocketed by execs or dumped into a new development.
There are games out there now with "quality" service and no $30 a month fee. Raising the fee to $30 a month would not solve anything but how a CEO is going to buy his fifteenth house.
What I am trying to say, and I could have found a better example I suppose, is the only difference I could see that paying extra a month would actually work, would be real time activities by the devs, in the form of GM interaction, live quests, making the game more personal. I think people would buy off on that, but you can't do that with 50,000 people really, though you could pull it off for a few thousand. It won't work with a mainstream game, it would cost waaay too much. It would pretty much be for an exclusive audience that was willing to pay more.
Such as(going back to food again) the difference between chili's and a 5 star resteraunt with a 60 year waiting list and $500 dollar a plate meals.
D.
Torak I think we are both looking for the same thing but we both have a different view about how to fix it. I believe I made it confusing and I'm being perfectly clear that I 100% agree with most of what you say, however I completely disagree with your argument on why games never get shut down. It's because the costs are usually always in production, and there are TONS of MMO's you just don't see because they don't get far enough, and those that get out there and flop, well they are still making money because you can still somewhat run a website for a game, run a server and no customer service for extremely low costs, private servers prove this. After a game is created there is no sense in trashing it, there usually is always someone who will play and it will give you at least some income with little expenses. The whole increase in monthly fee is simply that good Customer Service doesn't come cheap, at least not in North America.
my parents make me pay for my games, and i can tell you paying 30 bucks for a game doesnt sit well with parents.