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Games and LCD Monitors
War_Eagle
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 472
UPDATE:
I just sent off for this monitor. Hopefully my luck will change. Yeah, it's more than I was trying to spend, but whatever. Hopefully it will be worth it...
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I just had an interesting day.
I've got a CRT monitor and decided that I wanted to try out the LCD world. So, I gathered up $500 and went to the store.
When I got there I compared all the various LCD's that were on display and found one that I thought looked the best. The LCD's were all lined up nice and pretty showing a Windows Vista desktop for comparison so I thought I was making a pretty good choice.
I got home and hurriedly opened the box and hooked up my new LCD monitor. I started up Windows and everything looked okay after I got the new drivers installed for the monitor. Then I started up EQ2. 
Holy, Sh*t that looked horrible. I just about cringed wondering what happened to Norrath! It used to be so beautiful and crisp and colorful. Not even a hint of that old world that I loved to visit.
I then got curious and started up EQ1. It looked even worse. Completely bled out and boring.
So, I thought I'd try out a few other games. I started up Fable, same story. I started up WoW, it looked okay, but how hard is it to make a cartoon look bad.
So, I boxed up the monitor and brought it back. When I got to the store the salesman talked me into trying a different one. So, I did. I brought it home and hooked it up. Same story.
Well, to make a long story shortened, I ended up trying out 3 LCD monitors today. None of them were any good and they were anywhere in the price range of $300-$489. There's no way I was going to spend more than that on a monitor.
The only game that looked "okay" was World of Warcraft. But like I said, it's such an explosion of color and contrast that it wouldn't show the light subtleties of other games graphics.
Needless to say, I don't think I'm an LCD guy. I am sticking with my old CRT and smiling.
I don't see how you guys play on those LCD's.
And now I wonder how many people have tried out games other than WoW and said the graphics were bad only because they were running them on an LCD monitor. I would have said the same thing if I were to load up a game like EQ2 on an LCD and thought that was what it really looked like.
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Comments
lol, you have to calibrate LCD monitors, they don't look perfect out of the box.
LCD's are so cheap now, if you were spending that much on one it must have been close to top of the line ... did you even do any research as to what type of panel would suit your needs for the price you were paying? Did the monitor(and your video card) have a DVI cable/input or were you using analog?
Bought my 19" 2ms widescreen LCD from Tigerdirect for $159 on sale a few months back.
Hooked through my DVI port on my graphics card. Tweaked the settings and works beautifully.
Like Aquakitty said, you really do need to run it through the digital video input, rather than the regular analog and tweak the settings through the menus on the monitor.
Also, the higher the "ms" rating, the more blur you'll get when you turn fast, as a lower ms reacts to movement/color changes faster, keeping things nice and clear. Never get an LCD with more than a 5ms rating.
You are definately doing something wrong.
Also you cant go by the store displays. Guy at Best Buy admitted they were all working off the same feed, so one's results will vary. I got a new Gateway HD monitor that has bonus inputs so I could even hook up the xbox360 and it rocks everything I throw at it.
I have no idea if I have a LCD or a Plasma...or what you guys are talking about.
I am kinda clueless...but the graphics are NICE for me. Maybe I was just lucky...or maybe the sell guy did something more...or something else...
The only time I can complain about graphics, they were not designed to be 27' wide. If some artists design a game to be displayed on a 17' screen and you display it on a 27', it may be horrible (BEHOLD THE RETURN OF CAPTAIN PIXEL!). But that is to be blame on the lack of vision of the company. 27' isn't the norm, but it is certainly going to be more and more frequents...and peoples using them may very well be relatively computer-illetrates.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
LCD monitors look best in their native resolution. If you play on lower resolutions it will always look worse, sometimes much worse. If you buy a 21" Wide LCD for example, the native resolution is 1680*1050. The game has to be set to that. If its not then its going to look like crap.
Color calibration is not required for most quality LCD monitors. Cheaper ones may be factory misconfigured to lean towards certain colors, showing a blue tint for example. That is why I always recommend Samsung or other brands that are known to use Samsung panels. PVA screens give you 8-bit color depths and are now at 6ms, which is perfectly playable even for FPS games. Also use the DVI white cable and not the blue analog.
My Samsung 215TW LCD looks gorgeous. Side by side with a high end Samsung 21" CRT and the LCD looks superior. There is NOTHING wrong with LCD's these days War_Eagle, so its either your monitor choice, your setup or your settings thats causing you problems. If LCD's were that inferior you would still have stores stocked full of CRTs.
Dude, where the hell are you buying your monitors? Get a samsung 19" widescreen monitor. It's what I have. Everything looks great with it.
I used to wonder why people complained about low quality episodes or speedsub quality episodes of anime when I had my CRT... then I got this 19" samsung widescreen and I could see why.. You can make out the imperfections with lower quality AVIMKV's and such, but that is better you're dealing with a better screen.
Btw, the samsung monitor I picked up was from bestbuy (Would rather order from newegg, but I was impatient.) -- and it was around $250 or so AFTER tax.
War_Eagle are you one of those people who ask where the "anykey" on the keyboard is? You bought a 500$ LCD monitor.........Because you are a beginner with LCDs, you couldve bought a 150-200 one. And most LCDs must be configured in terms of contrast/brightness/color/vibrance/resolution etc. Lol for the topic.
I just got a ViewSonic 28" Monitor, and it looks great for gaming.
Doesn't look that great for my coding, but gaming is phenominal on it!
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
LCD Monitors make CRT Monitors obsolete. Get with the program. You seem to be very ignorant about technology. Read the instructions or manual.
www.oblinq.com/SnowmonkeysTemple/
now now, people be nice. no need to attack.
Too many flames, the guy just needs some help
You definatley have something setup wrong. As someone suggested before it is likley an issue with native resolution.
I'm guessing that if your shopping in that price range your getting a good monitor, make / model number would be helpfull.
I guess I'm just too used to the way a CRT looks. And the way a CRT and LCD look are night and day. I realize that now.
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I know what I'm purchasing. That's not very nice to say something like that right off of the bat.
I ran them through the calibration settings and they still did not look good. I even ran it through the Nvidia calibration wizard to make sure all the colors and degrees of contrast were set correctly.
Besides that, what if I were someone who asked where the "any key" is? Why should that matter? Your attitude is what scares people off from computers all the time. If someone does need help with something, others being condescending is not going to buy you any points. It's merely going to make you look like a rude person.
I tell you what, the next time you think you know everything, I'll invite you to do an operation on a dog to treat its patellar luxation, and then when you stand there looking like you don't know what the heck I just said I'll unload on you about how little you know about biological organisms. I'm working on a veterinary medicine doctorate right now. So, wouldn't you expect me to know that? And just because I may not know everything about a computer, does that make you smarter than me and worthy of judgment?
I would actually help your sick animal and be happy you get to enjoy taking him for a walk for years to come. And never look at you in a judgmental way or try to make you feel stupid.
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I tried out 3 monitors today, and I promise I put them all in native resolution. And I also changed the resolution of the games once I got into them.
Here are the 3 I tried...
Acer AL2216Wbd
Viewsonic VX2025wm
Samsung Synmaster 204
I ran them all through their calibration tests and used the Nvidia calibration wizard that comes with the Nvidia drivers.
I admit, I'm not a tech support worker, but I do know enough about computers to at least be in the above average crowd of consumers. A place where anyone who is at should be able to adjust and setup one of these monitors. I know that they did not look anywhere near my CRT in clarity or color. I think I've just gotten spoiled by my CRT.
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You have to run LCD's at their native resolution otherwise everything looks blurry.
People are just ignorant to the fact that CRTs have superior color reproduction and refresh.
Just because something is newer does not mean it is better.
I have a samsung SyncMaster 730b and I love it. Had to tweek the games and the monitor a bit but works great. My second comp has a crt and everything looks so blaah. Only complaint I have is that right after the 1 year warrenty I get a little blue line that goes from top to bottom of the screen. I touch the back and it dissappears. Also be carefull if you have a wife and kids. I came home from work and now i have two scratches in my screen /cry
I think I might understand what he's talking about. My husband plays beside me on an LCD monitor and mine is CRT. We both play Everquest 2 together and he sometimes looks over at my monitor to see if there is something he is missing laying on the ground or whatever. The color changes in EQ2 are a lot more subtle than in WoW (like the OP wrote). So, that is the reason my husband looks over at my monitor to find things laying on the ground at times.
We did not have that problem when playing WoW. We don't have Fable or I would try that one on both.
Sorry about your experience but I think I understand.
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It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
I know that Samsung is a good monitor, I use it at work.
It sounds like you've made up your mind to just keep the crt and really if your happy with it you might as well. There's nothing wrong with crt technology other than size and weight. A 50" HD crt TV would look great it would just weigh 2000lbs and be the size of a king sized bed. If you've got the room on your desk then stay with what your happy with.
I still can't help but think something was not setup right though.
I guess I'm just too used to the way a CRT looks. And the way a CRT and LCD look are night and day. I realize that now.
You have to also adjust the resolution in-game to the highest settings as well... plus iuno how well EQ will look on it as it being an older game... i truly dont know.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
Hi War_Eagle,
All of those monitors you tried are whats called 6-bit types that won't display the full spectrum of colours a CRT one could and most likely were not running at the same resolution as your CRT. What you should look for is 8-bit LCD's which show the full 16.7 million colours. Many LCD makers stat that their monitors are capable of displaying the full 16.7 million colours by boosting the 6-bit with their own tech. Suffice to say, as a graphic designer, I have a nice old 28 inch CRT right next to my samsung 24 inch. The CRT gives me eye strain and takes up huge space but it does the job extremley well. I do prefer my LCD though - having its native resoluton at 1900 x 1200 is fantastic. If I was you I would keep looking for a 20 or 22 inch monitor running at aleast 16 x 12 and true 8-bit, they are out there within your budget - good luck! If ever buying samsung look for the model type, usually they do 3 different types of screen A,S and C panels. C being the worst with S type the best. You can ask in a store to put a couple next to each other and you can really see the difference.
Hi War_Eagle,
All of those monitors you tried are whats called 6-bit types that won't display the full spectrum of colours a CRT one could and most likely were not running at the same resolution as your CRT. What you should look for is 8-bit LCD's which show the full 16.7 million colours. Many LCD makers stat that their monitors are capable of displaying the full 16.7 million colours by boosting the 6-bit with their own tech. Suffice to say, as a graphic designer, I have a nice old 28 inch CRT right next to my samsung 24 inch. The CRT gives me eye strain and takes up huge space but it does the job extremley well. I do prefer my LCD though - having its native resoluton at 1900 x 1200 is fantastic. If I was you I would keep looking for a 20 or 22 inch monitor running at aleast 16 x 12 and true 8-bit, they are out there within your budget - good luck! If ever buying samsung look for the model type, usually they do 3 different types of screen A,S and C panels. C being the worst with S type the best. You can ask in a store to put a couple next to each other and you can really see the difference.
Good advice here.CNet has a nice buyers guide also...
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3173_7-6384019-1.html?tag=dir
"People are just ignorant to the fact that CRTs have superior color reproduction and refresh. " ~ gpett
Thanks gpett. Most people do not know that the CRT being made now are WORSE than those 3-5 years ago .. odd is it not.
This thread hold a place in my heart becuase for the last year and 1/2 i have been watchign LCD screens and well so far i CAN't switch .. why my CRT blows them away its only a 19 inch (but thats basicly like 1.4 times taller than a wide screen anyways). My crt's pixels are so darn small i have to put my eye to the screen to see them
Its picture is shinny as all heck and its color is wonderful... its only real down side ... it weights 43 lbs , its a freaking brick that pumps out heat.
Still as far as picture quality goes i am havign a hard time switching... i think ill check out best buy etc and just see how the higher end 1000:1 contrast, 5-2 ms, 300-330 brightness 21-22" look. Still i doubt ill be switching, tho i want to for some reason.
Btw i blame this entire CRT to LCD on that darn Al Gore ... darn you!!!
So what LCDs use a ton less energy , had they keep improving CRTs maybe atm we all be using totaly amazing CRT monitors ... not likely but so what i can dream..
PS. Curse you Al Gore. Glaicers are boring anyway.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
It is indeed weird making the switch to LCDs from a CRT. It was weird for me years ago, especially with ghosting since it was really bad back then, ugh.
You just have to do a lot of research. This is a pretty good forum to ask for a good gaming monitor http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78
I have of course spoiled myself and I use a 32inch 1080p LCD HDTV as my PC monitor lol.
Looking for something new.