Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Farlan and NPCube sued

124»

Comments

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by solareus


     
    Originally posted by Cholayna

    Originally posted by solareus

    Originally posted by Zorvan


     
    Originally posted by solareus


    I personally feel like this case is bust, the VWORLd people werent even around when the the engine was created, came in during the creation process , paid by the NP3 then they left, claiming the created somethig that was already being developed ? It doesnt jell , sorry.
     
    Then they come to forums like these to drum up the army of haters who "got ripped off" (cause they didn't read the precise  cancellation process carefully enough) to be there main source for some kind of lawsuit ? Is that summoning up this whole topic , or no ?



    Come back when you have read and managed to comprehend the DnL forums here from beginning to end. If you still don't get it, don't know what to tell you, except that I have some swampland in the Sahara I'm willing to sell you real cheap.

     

    In answer to you question "Is that summoning up this whole topic , or no ?", the answer is: No, not even close.

    When it comes to game community forums, I start at the game, I no all to well how mmorpg.com forums work and I will very rarely give any "hate " threads" a second look, the game has problems, right now, i am looking at the game, as i do so i take time and read about this lawsuit, for right now from what I gathered, VWORLD would need a time machine to win . That is the simple facts. You can't go into a job get paid for some work , then go home and claim the work hyou already got paid for was your soul idea,  The Engine was already in development before the "plaintiff" arrived to work at the "said " comapny, the Company gave a salary for the plaintiff to do a specific tast, the plaintiff agreed, did the task and left the company to start his own company. Once he recieved a salary payment for work  he no longer can lay claim to anything created in that time frame. If he wins, then I invented everything i ever touched .

    You realllllly think you have it all figured out doncha? Again, do some REAL reading, find out the FACTS. You dont even have a clue whats really going! There are PAGES of info regarding the REAL idea behind the lawsuit. Take a gander at _Pix_'s site for one. There you will see other links to just what he is claiming and just how far-fetched and full of bull Farlan is. LMAO Dear Gawd boy, you sound like a Snow! LOL

    No , I dont, I am contiuely digging all accessible location to come up with a nmore refined outlook on the present situation. So Far i found aHANDFUL of people who laid claims , one even going as far as saying the game was vaporware and a scam.  See how this board was all happy bubbles until they got charged on there card. Personally think it was a miscommunication between developers/producers and the billing people. 2 different languages trying to conduct business , you will most likely have a miscommunication.

     

    With that said, it would of been in the best interest of Farlan to  refund , but again since they used a 3rd party for billing , that would of been nearly impossible.

    I have absolutely nothing figured out and again , looking at all information gather as my on personal perspective and sharing them for a 2 way conversation, sind it seems this particular board has been a one way street, just say I like to go the wrong wway every now again.

    hmmm, maybe you should listen to those that do claim to have been ripped off and posted several posts at the DNL boards. Farlan and Alchemic Dreams DID DELETE quite a few of the painful TRUTHFUL posts as it was just too horrible for their PR. Several HUNDRED people were banned from the boards as well as the game simply by posting the TRUTH (and yes even after paying! Banned from the boards and oopsie guess what! the account ingame doesnt work anymore!) Even more, when Farlan proved to have no clue what they are doing, some of the people who were banned or cancelled later tried and were able to get in the game. Thus, the billing issues were NOT a problem with C&B but with Farlans own program of which they had no clue to fix!

    There was and still is a problem with people being unable to log in even after SEVERAL MONTHS of payment and payment harassment. Ignored by Farlan simply because they didnt know how to fix it and refused to refund through C&B. All transactions through C&B had to be cleared by Farlan according to the agreement with C&B, sooooooo anything that was done or not done by C&B is at the direct result of Farlans directions.  C&B in some cases, through threat of lawsuits against their own company, released refunds without Farlans consent. You really need to understand the basics of payment transaction companies before you make any more ignorant (meaning you dont know, not personally) statements.

    Those that fought back with Farlan regarding the promised content, stability and most especially the SOG/DNL outright LIE and even those that fought the legality of no refund even before the game was released  were promptly and unceremoniously banned and booted. ANY post that reflected badly on Farlan was treated that way. Alchemic Dreams lost a TON of integrity and reputation due to Farlan as well as C&B. Farlan is poison.

    If you have honestly and reallly tried to find out all aspects of the issue of the VWORLD stolen tech, you would not be making the clearly uninformed and outrageously erroneous statements you are attempting here.

    Again, I URGE you to READ, RETAIN and COMPREHEND the information that is available to you. Without doing so, you are in effect accusing each and every poster here of doing exactly what you are. 

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604
    Originally posted by solareus


    here is another angle , I found on the DnL forums :
    "Well this could explain the delays, if the guy who left to create Vworld Tech in some way through a wrench in to the Mafate engine on his way out. And now NP3 lacks the skill base to repair the damage or compete the code. Only time will tell."
     
    So many variables to look at ....

    This was already tried and debunked a LONGGG time ago. Farlan themselves posted a statement stating that _Pix_ blocked the coding in it. I gotta tell you, the reaction from the gaming industry was complete and utter shock at the completely lame idea. If _Pix_ did indeed somehow sabotage the work with an unbreakable code -- then dear Gawd get his azz in the white house for our own homeland security!!! LMAO you have now aligned yourself with their view when really it only shows yours and Farlans complete inexperience, incompetence and downright ignorance of coding. 

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by solareus

    Originally posted by Cholayna


    Ya know too Sol? SOE or Sigil if you will, at least had a game that worked, had 90% of promises done, somewhat stable servers and lotsa content. Umm...a PLAYABLE game.
    Makes quite a bit of difference to the mmorpg players ya know what I mean?

    and I can say from my Vanguard beta experience, DnL is leaps and bounds ahead .In the time this game was released, the hardware could of never handle it, AGP cards and single core process 512 /1 gig of ram, I don't think so ...

     

    From a testers stand point , the worst part of the graphics is the Terrian rendering. It is almost the only reason why there is video lag. They should switch to the multitools renderer and test that out . The way the terrian loads is really not smart....

    hmm I was also in VG beta as well as played for a few months after release. Since I have a nice rig, I did not experience too many of the problems others experienced. My other computer is an older one but could handle it with the recommended tweaks given by the devs until the issue was fixed. It was okay with the lag being horrible in a few places but again, this was in beta and I did not attempt it with my older puter once it was released.

    From a testers standpoint, nitpicking is good. The graphics were entirely much more stable than Farlan could ever even hope to achieve. The availability of content, the combat and working quests were so far above DNL as to not even consider Farlan in the running. EVen in beta stage, VG was MILES above DNL in any category.

    Since people have tried and been wiped from the planet to compare DNL to WOW, you are now trying to compare it to Vanguard. Incredible. Farlan seems determined to try to set themselves up along side of the Big Boys and ya know what? It just aint gonna happen!! 

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by solareus


     
    Originally posted by agh50


    I have to totally agree about the superiority of DnL's terrain rendering engine compared with Vanguard's. 
    I read somewhere that Sigil initially used a graphics engine from a console game and tried to adapt it to Vanguard, but it simply could not deal with the expanded load that an MMO demanded (/shrugs--it's really beyond my ken though). 
    I DO know that the 'stutter' phenomenon at each chunk line in Vanguard was almost unbearable at times, especially for computers at the minimum specs.  They claimed a 'seemless' world with no zones, but in reality it was if there were a myriad of little 'mini' zones laid out every few hundred yards, each one recquiring up to several seconds to load in (depending on your rig).
    90% complete for Vanguard is overly generous I would say.  It would be more like 66%, but still there is more content in Vanguard (even at 66%) than there is in DnL. 
    However that comparison is a bit misleading.  DnL was envisioned to be a massive PvP world along the DAoC model, and it was the players themselves rather than the designers that would be the primary providers of the game's content.  However with only 100-150 active players in a world as vast as Ganareth, the design thrust breaks down, and there is only a limited amount of game provided content to fall back on.  That is not necessarily a valid criticism of the game, but rather, a lack of foresight as to.... "What would happen if we don't get enough players to generate the needed content?"  I am not convinved that that question was asked at even the earliest design stages.
    I would assume that even those haters of Farlan acknowledge the superiority of DnL's engine, (even when it is misfiring).  After all, they are making the claim that it is Pix' engine in reality (albeit operated at 'half-speed' so to speak)
    The real issues here are just whose intellectual property does the terrain engine legally belong to.  That, and the business practices of DnL's parent company, Farlan.
    Essentially, those two issues are the only substanative isses that are being debated. 
    All other issues, from lag, to character models, to spawn rates, to which quests are broken, to class balancing, are the mundane issues that all MMOs debate endlessly.  It's not that those issues are unimportant, it's just that they are not unique to DnL.
    My fondest wish is that someday, a company with the resources and commitment will release an online, and graphically updated, version of DaggerFall as an MMO; and if you know what DaggerFall was, then you're dating yourself---although I do remember these choice lines from another classic:
    'You are standing in an open field west of a white house with a picket fence.  There is a mailbox here'
    If Pix would of never worked for them , he would have a claim, the mafate engine was started before he worked for them , he got paid to work on the engine, and left for some reason ?

     

    It seems like the only reason he started his own company was to lay claim to the engine. If he is the core engine designer, why did he let so many people down in the game development by not fixing the problems at hand while he was still working for them ?

     

    I thin he saw what he was doing for them and tried to get around them by creating his own company to lay claims for work he already produced for DnL, and in the priocess DnL fans got the shaft by not having a completed task,(game engine) and Pix laying all the blame on Farlan cause, why not , they already screwed the fans on the money , he could just weasel in there and make himself look like some kind of saint.

    I always find the person online that seems most sincere usually has something they arent telling you , or hiding something, kind of luck a preditor. This is my perspective, I am still siding with Farlan/Snail gaming. I really doubt Snailgaming would of picked up the title if they felt Pix claims where of any substance.

    Sol, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE visit _Pix's_ website. It explains everything you are stating and asking! he already HAD a company 4 (four) years BEFORE Farlan even approached him!!!!!!!

    Blaming _Pix_ for the incompetence, inexperience, lack of integrity, and lack of sense regarding the bottomless pit that is DNL is truly numbing. Absolutely stupidly funny! 

    Hmmm, you dont think that the "sincerity" shown by Farlan however is not laced with ulterior motive? You dont think that Farlan has already proven that info given about the state of the game even within the last six months is truly full of bull? Have you seen some of their press releases? Some of which are only local in Reunion Island lay down an entirely different picture than what is reality. Snailgames I believe was either duped the same as the rest of the world or Farlan is doing whatever they can to get themselves detached from Snailgames and try to shoulder the burden of the lawsuits on them.  (has already been determined that some documents in Farlans posession and those that were shown to the proper authorities were in fact questionable regarding not only the employment of _Pix_ but other artists and employees as well ---- this can be verified by a simple " read,retain and comprehend" practice of finding out what the hell you are talking about before spouting it in public view)

    Snailgames has already refused to release the game in the state it was in and as promised by Farlan way back when (last year I believe).

    Sigh....alllll of this information is available if you try to find out and its really not that hard to do. I guess the hardest part for anyone would be comprehension (understanding what you read).

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by Zorvan


     

    Originally posted by Dracis
     
     

    Originally posted by solareus
     
    " spoke to him, via Instant Messenger and IRC. In all honesty, he didn't sound all that optimistic about DnL's chances back then."



    So another words VWorld sold the a license, which really makes little sense to me if Vworld was working with them to go an sue them just because it is a popular thing to do. In America the suite would be thrown out .



    Here's the common misunderstanding, VWorld and BigWorld are two completely different technologies and two completely diffferent companies. VWorld handles the terrain and BigWorld handles the servers.



    You really should read more, then post...



    That's the problem, Dracis.

    This "solareus" is going around trying to promote DnL as a playable game, and make it look like everybody is at fault for it's failure (sound familiar).

    Apparently, from the posts he's made above ( like asking why _Pix_ is worried about this "just now", like this has only happened in the last week or two) he hasn't read a damn thing about the game, other than the DnL webpage, or he's just flat ignoring everyone with something bad to say about Farlan/NPcube/DnL (don't know why that would be).

    <Mod edit>

     

    Aye indeed, Sol doesnt have a clue and apparently refuses to find out or even acknowledge anything other than Farlans claims (which have already been dis-proved)

    Several posts have come across out of the blue asking why _Pix_ is doing this "just now". Incredible.

    I believe, in the gaming industry itself, Farlan/NPC have earned their reputation by their own actions. No amount of goodness in any form from them will be taken seriously or given the chance to bloom. They decided which road they were going to take and unfortunately for the mmorpg players as well as themselves, they have taken the route to utter destruction and dead ends. Once you lose integrity and trust, it is almost impossible to gain it back. Especially when that road to gaining trust back is STILL laced with lies, exaggerations, deceptions, smoke and mirrors and a pompous arrogant attitude. Farlan is just too arrogant to still see exactly what and how they are perceived in the gaming industry, not only in the US but worldwide.

    Its a long time running joke. You mess up or completely fudge something up and the response is "Pulled a Farlan didja?". Even signs are up in some offices of  " NO DNL ALLOWED HERE" and "IF YOU CANT DO IT RIGHT, THERE IS ALWAYS DNL".  LMAO 

  • agh50agh50 Member Posts: 124

    Solareus,

    Honestly, I do not think that anyone posting here, proponents and critics alike, has a complete picture of  the dispute between VWorld and Farlan. 

    Citing Farlan's assertions as convincing evidence is no more valid than using Pix' site as the source of the 'true' facts. 

    Each will have it's own set of facts which they assert are the "only, true, and honest" story, and that the other's facts are all slander, deciet and obviscation.

    Given Farlan's actions in other areas where I DO have some solid facts, I would say that, (at least circumstantially), I would probably trust Pix' assertions over Farlan's.  Do I KNOW that Farlan is lying?  Does this PROVE that Pix is telling the truth?  No, but obviously both sides cannot be correct.  At the moment it is "He said / She said", and people are entitled to accept or reject one side's version or the other.  Perhaps Farlan is right,  perhaps Pix is,  but at this point all we are engaging in is speculation, or cheerleading.    

    It's in the court system now, and they will make the decision.  Patience is a virtue, and there is no pressing need to rush to judgement. 

  • _Pix__Pix_ Member Posts: 276

    Originally posted by Dracis


    @ _Pix_ : I just wanted to let you know I had a chance to speak to one of the Big World sever technicians that worked on DnL. I spoke to him, via Instant Messenger and IRC. In all honesty, he didn't sound all that optimistic about DnL's chances back then. I spoke to him about the time SoG was coming to an end and before the Open beta of Dark and Light. He mentioned problems trying to get Big Worlds technology working with thier technology ( which was actually yours).
    All the best to you _Pix_, I hope you get the monetary rewards and acclaim you deserve, and hopefully someone from Farlan/NPCube goes to jail for a very long time.
    Thanks Dracis.

    Well, when Cesar Jacquet, CEO of NPCube and member of Farlan took the decision to choose BigWorld in 2003,  I must admit that with the rest of the developers at NPCube I was a bit surprised, since BigWorld was presented to us as a revolutionary technology, but that the decision to go for BigWorld had only being taken on the grounds of its marketing , as no real tests on a large scale had been made. Then we came to worry and enquired more about  that fact because of the quite long time it was taking to integrate BigWorld ( the actual cause of the delays in putting an on-line version available for beta, and that's why we put at disposal an off-line version in 2003, in which everything was running fine, I don't doubt there are people that were in betatest at the time that can testify about that fact). And at that time we were told not to worry, since Citizen Zero was there for BigWorld to make all the necessary tests.

    We didn't have the necessary skills in-house to judge of the quality of the server part , except for C. Jacquet, who had presented himself as an expert since he had founded the first Internet provider on the island. So a very efficient turnkey solution for the server part, even though it meant resorting to external collaboration, didn't sound like a bad idea at the beginning. Our blind appreciation was a huge mistake, since it turned out  that BigWorld was only in its early alpha stage :  lots of bugs and memory leaks and a quite complex implementation. I was not responsible for that effort, and I must admit I was not in a position to pass any kind of judgment , in this respect that I am a terrain specialist and in no way a server specialist, even if I  ran the on-line games departement in the 90s at Infogrames (but nothing to compare with massive MMORPGs). This being said, what I've seen of BigWorld at that time (2003-4) was that it was much more designed for FPS rather than MMOs.

    Mark my words here: I am not saying BigWorld is not working properly. I am just saying that between 2001-2005 the marketing for BigWorld was very efficient, much along the lines of the marketing that Dark and Light benefited to become such a hyped product. But when you know they've hired the same PR person, this is not so much surprising. What is quite surprising though is  to note the various changes in the marketing pitch of BigWorld during the course of time. At first they put the emphasis on their capability to handle hundreds of thousands of players, up to  millions  actually , on a unique server. Then they announced 43 games being in development in 2005. And now, with the cancellation of their flagship project Citizen Zero and the apparent failure of Dark and Light (for which they were praised this time for their seamless world with no load time capabilities... which is a feature of VWorldTerrain),  they seem to be turning to much more classical products with standard server features.

    I truly hope their server technology will be used in good projects, and that their maketing efforts will be rewarded since I do not doubt they count  skilled engineers in their tech team. One thing is certain though: Dark and Light was not that much of a great publicity for them, but apparently they understood that since they quite recently suppressed the Dark and Light gallery on their website. 

    @solareus:

    I won't waste time in shedding any more light specifically for you. As one of the posters here expressed it: Reading Is Fondamental. So there is no point in bringing up again the selfsame non-sense arguments as others did, which have been thoroughly responded and countered. You will find out that I run my company since 1997, and we celebrated the 10th birthday of VWorldTerrain technology this year. Enjoy your reading.

  • CognetoJoeCognetoJoe Member Posts: 446

     

    Originally posted by _Pix_
    , but apparently they understood that since they quite recently suppressed the Dark and Light gallery on their website. 
    You will find out that I run my company since 1997
    really, are you talking about this gallery www.darkandlight.com/en/gallery/image.html ?

    Everything that I saw online from curiousity says 2004 . That is straight from Gamasutra. .....

     

     

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by CognetoJoe


     
     
    Originally posted by _Pix_
    , but apparently they understood that since they quite recently suppressed the Dark and Light gallery on their website. 
    You will find out that I run my company since 1997
    really, are you talking about this gallery www.darkandlight.com/en/gallery/image.html ?

     

    Everything that I saw online from curiousity says 2004 . That is straight from Gamasutra. .....

     

     

    Egad, he was talking about Big World suppressing any mention of DNL on their website.

    wth is up with all these people who cannot comprehend what is posted?

  • _Pix__Pix_ Member Posts: 276

     

    Originally posted by CognetoJoe


     
     
    Originally posted by _Pix_
    , but apparently they understood that since they quite recently suppressed the Dark and Light gallery on their website. 
    You will find out that I run my company since 1997
    really, are you talking about this gallery www.darkandlight.com/en/gallery/image.html ?

     

    Everything that I saw online from curiousity says 2004 . That is straight from Gamasutra. .....

     

     

     

     

    I was of course talking about this gallery: http://www.bigworldtech.com/games/index.php (no more DnL screenshots nor Farlan testimonial, except in the Chinese section of BigWorld's website). No need to distort or misinterprete my words.

    As to the "only 2004" theory, please find these other links to other galleries, whose webmasters did not feel the need to erase all references to earlier work (no doubt an indication of their sensible work ethics)  

    2002:

    http://static.mondespersistants.com/fansites/mp-dnl/screens/5/7.jpg

    http://static.mondespersistants.com/fansites/mp-dnl/screens/5/127.jpg 

    (etc, etc, etc...)

    2003:

    http://static.mondespersistants.com/fansites/mp-dnl/screens/5/173.jpg

    http://static.mondespersistants.com/fansites/mp-dnl/screens/5/213.jpg

    (etc, etc, etc...)

    You can even find some good videos from 2003 here: http://www.stratics.com/content/portals/dnl/content/media/videos/index.php

    Enjoy.

    EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot to give you this other tip: have a look here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/21867

    An excellent thread from a dedicated Australian poster, full of exciting screenhots, some of which dating 2003.  

    No need to thank me for the info.  

      

  • ZorvanZorvan Member CommonPosts: 8,912

    Heh, I remember the furor that arose when it was revealed Blacsac was posting "doctored" screenshots for Farlan, to make the game look better than it really was at the time.

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604
    Originally posted by Zorvan


    Heh, I remember the furor that arose when it was revealed Blacsac was posting "doctored" screenshots for Farlan, to make the game look better than it really was at the time.



    LMAO that was hilarious!!! Not to mention how they vehemently stated SOG was NOT DNL  and in fact was a completely different game from DNL!  Then they come out and post the SOG instructions and refer DNL players to it!!!!  LMAO This company and game is a ton of laughs !! LMAO

  • CognetoJoeCognetoJoe Member Posts: 446

    This makes it all the more confusing, here the writter states that Vworld is not used in DnL.  As well as Pix writting them and telling them what version is and isn't being used in the game DnL

     

    Monday April 11 2005

    DnL - Vincent Pourieux from VWorld writes us
    Return to TopSubmit News!Visit our forums

    DnLStratics - 3:55 PM PDT

    Show all DnLStratics newsDue to a little misunderstanding, I had the VWorldTerrain videos in our movies section marked as "by Bionatics". They were made by VWorld and the vegetation in these videos was made by Bionatics. Furthermore I was not aware that the technology used in the most recent evolutions of the VWorldTerrain rendering engine for these videos, is not used in DnL.

     

    Vincent Pourieux, CEO of VWorld, informed me of this mistake and I have promptly corrected it. DnL does not use the most recent version of the VWorld rendering engine, which is being shown in these videos. However the graphics of DnL come pretty close to it even without the most recent features of the VWorldTerrain engine.

  • CognetoJoeCognetoJoe Member Posts: 446

    My one question to Pix, Where you ever paid to perform tasks during the production of DnL ?

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by CognetoJoe


    My one question to Pix, Where you ever paid to perform tasks during the production of DnL ?
    does paying him a salary automatically make claim to an invention of his own before he was employed by Farlan?

     

    Again, do your homework, read about the history of VWORLD, it will also clear up your confusion in the post above this one. VWORLD has moved on in it tech dept. Doesnt mean the wrong Farlan did is wiped away.

  • FifthredFifthred Member Posts: 367

    If you incorporate something you already been working on into another companies project, get paid for the collaboration, then that peace you entered belongs to the company now, which they may call it something else.

    Say you are able to get John Carmak to work on a game for you, he says yes , gets paid to incorporate his work into that project, now that work he did is that project. He can't just come in and say, "ok ok ok , even though I got paid for this , you guys can't use it now."   Doesn't matter what technology it is , it is all the same basic business practice. It would be like Bill Gates coming to your home and saying , ok you paid for windows , but I'm going to take it back now ..

    .........

    Does that make sense to you guys ?

    I like pie !

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604
    Originally posted by Fifthred


    If you incorporate something you already been working on into another companies project, get paid for the collaboration, then that peace you entered belongs to the company now, which they may call it something else.
    Say you are able to get John Carmak to work on a game for you, he says yes , gets paid to incorporate his work into that project, now that work he did is that project. He can't just come in and say, "ok ok ok , even though I got paid for this , you guys can't use it now."   Doesn't matter what technology it is , it is all the same basic business practice. It would be like Bill Gates coming to your home and saying , ok you paid for windows , but I'm going to take it back now ..
    .........
    Does that make sense to you guys ?



    That was neither the issue nor the agreement nor the contract between Farlan and _Pix_. Its all there on the website. He didnt sign over the licensing.He didnt sell his creation. Again, its all there on his site. Do you a world of good to read it.

  • agh50agh50 Member Posts: 124

    I will break a personal policy, and respond directly to a poster that I prefer not to:

    Look, everyone who happens to enjoy the game is not your enemy.  It  IS completely possible to enjoy the game, (even in its present state), without necessarily  condoning the business practices of the parent company.

    Why do you paint this is such stark colors.?    You paint with too wide a brush.   You don't like the game---got it.  You don't like the company---ditto.  You feel M. Pourieux is getting a raw deal---understood.  Is it ok with you if not everyone shares your point of view?

    That does not make us shills, or dolts, it just means that  WE LIKE THE GAME, (despite it's faults).  Is that ok by you, or do we need your approval?

    We do not demand that you change your views.  We accept that there are valid reasons why you feel the way you do.  But your views are not our views, and we will not accept your judgement on what we may or may not feel about either the game or the company.  You, (by your own admission), played for a very short time.  You did not like it.  You felt used and abused by the company.  Many others feel the same way that you feel, and for valid reasons.  But that is not the view of everyone.  We do not say you are unjustified for the way you feel.  We expect the same courtesy.

    I like Pix.  I tend to accept his explanation in his claim against Farlan.  I don't  KNOW  that he is correct, anymore than you do.  That is for a court to decide.  I have some circumstantial evidence that causes me to believe him.  He was not the ONLY empolyee of Farlan to leave, so that tends to make me believe that it was not merely a personality conflict between Pix and Vuuar.  From my own personal experience, I have learned that a CEO that is inflexible when dealing with subordinates, that takes the attitude of  "My way or the highway", often sees a percentage of his subordinates leave.  If you are the CEO of General Motors, perhaps you can get away with that type of attitude, but with a staff the size of DnL's, well, "that dog don't hunt".  For these (and other) reasons, I tend to think Pix' version of events is more credible.  But even someone convinced of the rightousness of their cause sees it through their own filter.  The other side is equally convinced that their view is correct.  That is why we have a legal system.  Let it do it's work.

    To say, Pix is right because Pix says he is right, and look, see all the reasons why he says this, is not evidence.  It is only one person's point of view on the evidence.  That is why we have a legal system.  Let it do it's work.

    But what I, (or you), may believe about what *should* be is not at all what the law says *should*  be.  It is only clear cut in your own mind.  Perhaps Pix will win, perhaps he will not.  Either way, he has been up-front with me, and I respect him for that.  I wish him well.

    However, it IS possible to like Pix and to like DnL (the game) simultaneously; the two are not mutually exclusive.

    You have chosen to interpret any expression of support for the game as an attack on Pix.   Such is not the case.  You have chosen to interpret any positive comments concerning DnL as having some ulterior motive.  Such is not the case.  You have chosen to see a conspiracy behind anyone's views you disagree with.  Such is not the case.

    You have belittled, insulted and bullied any and all that you do not agree with.  That has not gone un-noticed or un-addressed.

    To quote:

    "(Dude)", let it go".

     

  • _Pix__Pix_ Member Posts: 276
    Originally posted by CognetoJoe


    This makes it all the more confusing, here the writter states that Vworld is not used in DnL.  As well as Pix writting them and telling them what version is and isn't being used in the game DnL
     
    Monday April 11 2005



    DnL - Vincent Pourieux from VWorld writes us

    Return to TopSubmit News!Visit our forums







    DnLStratics - 3:55 PM PDT



    Show all DnLStratics newsDue to a little misunderstanding, I had the VWorldTerrain videos in our movies section marked as "by Bionatics". They were made by VWorld and the vegetation in these videos was made by Bionatics. Furthermore I was not aware that the technology used in the most recent evolutions of the VWorldTerrain rendering engine for these videos, is not used in DnL.
     
    Vincent Pourieux, CEO of VWorld, informed me of this mistake and I have promptly corrected it. DnL does not use the most recent version of the VWorld rendering engine, which is being shown in these videos. However the graphics of DnL come pretty close to it even without the most recent features of the VWorldTerrain engine.





     

    Who said that VWorldTerrain was not included into DnL? I guess nobody.

    Even Farlan/NPCube/Alchemic Dream did communicate upon the use of VWorldTerrain/VWorld in Mafate. And they never communicated upon the fact it was not used.  

    DnL Stratics only correctly stated that the most recent version of VWorldTerrain was not used in DnL , which is perfectly true since DnL is making use of the 2002 VWorldTerrain version. Maybe you skipped the caption that was accompanying this particular video in  DnL Stratics videos section (a video from VWORLD which was by mistake presented as a video from DnL by Stratics):    

    This video from VWORLD presents VWorldTerrain technology using Bionatics vegetation. VWorldTerrain is the terrain rendering technology used in the DnL game. The links to the two videos here show VWorldTerrain's recent evolutions (which implemented Bionatics vegetation and many other features) which are NOT included in DnL.

    But since I do appear now in your "blocked users" list, I don't know if you will be able to read my present reply to your interrogations about the development of DnL and the procedural  terrain and meteorology  technology used in it .   

    This peculiar way of asking questions without expecting anwers is becoming a strange habit, on the part of players apparently so very interested in  twists and turns of the development of DnL.   

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by agh50


    I will break a personal policy, and respond directly to a poster that I prefer not to:
    Look, everyone who happens to enjoy the game is not your enemy.  It  IS completely possible to enjoy the game, (even in its present state), without necessarily  condoning the business practices of the parent company.
    Why do you paint this is such stark colors.?    You paint with too wide a brush.   You don't like the game---got it.  You don't like the company---ditto.  You feel M. Pourieux is getting a raw deal---understood.  Is it ok with you if not everyone shares your point of view?
    That does not make us shills, or dolts, it just means that  WE LIKE THE GAME, (despite it's faults).  Is that ok by you, or do we need your approval?
    We do not demand that you change your views.  We accept that there are valid reasons why you feel the way you do.  But your views are not our views, and we will not accept your judgement on what we may or may not feel about either the game or the company.  You, (by your own admission), played for a very short time.  You did not like it.  You felt used and abused by the company.  Many others feel the same way that you feel, and for valid reasons.  But that is not the view of everyone.  We do not say you are unjustified for the way you feel.  We expect the same courtesy.
    I like Pix.  I tend to accept his explanation in his claim against Farlan.  I don't  KNOW  that he is correct, anymore than you do.  That is for a court to decide.  I have some circumstantial evidence that causes me to believe him.  He was not the ONLY empolyee of Farlan to leave, so that tends to make me believe that it was not merely a personality conflict between Pix and Vuuar.  From my own personal experience, I have learned that a CEO that is inflexible when dealing with subordinates, that takes the attitude of  "My way or the highway", often sees a percentage of his subordinates leave.  If you are the CEO of General Motors, perhaps you can get away with that type of attitude, but with a staff the size of DnL's, well, "that dog don't hunt".  For these (and other) reasons, I tend to think Pix' version of events is more credible.  But even someone convinced of the rightousness of their cause sees it through their own filter.  The other side is equally convinced that their view is correct.  That is why we have a legal system.  Let it do it's work.
    To say, Pix is right because Pix says he is right, and look, see all the reasons why he says this, is not evidence.  It is only one person's point of view on the evidence.  That is why we have a legal system.  Let it do it's work.
    But what I, (or you), may believe about what *should* be is not at all what the law says *should*  be.  It is only clear cut in your own mind.  Perhaps Pix will win, perhaps he will not.  Either way, he has been up-front with me, and I respect him for that.  I wish him well.
    However, it IS possible to like Pix and to like DnL (the game) simultaneously; the two are not mutually exclusive.
    You have chosen to interpret any expression of support for the game as an attack on Pix.   Such is not the case.  You have chosen to interpret any positive comments concerning DnL as having some ulterior motive.  Such is not the case.  You have chosen to see a conspiracy behind anyone's views you disagree with.  Such is not the case.
    You have belittled, insulted and bullied any and all that you do not agree with.  That has not gone un-noticed or un-addressed.
    To quote:
    "(Dude)", let it go".
     
    Forgive me Agh but ahhhh, you got it all wrong. I do not insult and troll bait when the poster makes a legit opinion of the game.  This recent round however is NOT legit in that even YOU brought the question of _Pix_'s credibility. You also have quite a different fact at the DNL forums so I must say I dont understand why you cant seem to get it.  To come on and question the credibility of someone when simply a bit of research done would have answered most, if not all, of your questions then to turn around and show another face quite the opposite of one here is bogus.

    As far as the game itself, you first posted that this game is really quite wonderful. As the convos went on however you let slip a few real zingers of playability -- and the lack thereof -- in this game. So  you see? IF you feel challenged by me or other posters in this board, well then the easiest remedy would be to be honest in the first place. You have not been. 

    Since the discovery of the sleaziness of the president of Farlan actions regarding the deliberate squashing of opinions and posts here at mmorpg, yes I find some posters quite suspect in their motives.

    Instead you wish now to come on and flame me, twist it so that its alllll me. Sorry Pal, once again your posts dont exactly show the true picture. The problem you have here at this board is many many many of the posters here were long time true die-hard fans of the hype. Most WERE beta testers.  MOST were pioneers. Some have been here for 4 + years and continue to be here. They know the score on DNL. Some even still have accounts at DNL simply to see when the miracle of things being fixed actually shows up. (Decompression error? thats over 3 years old, still exists)  

    I do experience the game myself from time to time. My neighbor has it still. Thats how I get to see the TRUE state of the game and the TRUE posts that are listed at DNL. My own opinion does not mean it is baseless simply because I see the truth in the matter and have a differing opinion than you do.

    My opinion is the polar opposite of yours but I am still entitled to it. The same as you. Your veiled threats work the same way back at you.

  • CholaynaCholayna Member Posts: 1,604

    Originally posted by _Pix_

    Originally posted by CognetoJoe


    This makes it all the more confusing, here the writter states that Vworld is not used in DnL.  As well as Pix writting them and telling them what version is and isn't being used in the game DnL
     
    Monday April 11 2005



    DnL - Vincent Pourieux from VWorld writes us

    Return to TopSubmit News!Visit our forums







    DnLStratics - 3:55 PM PDT



    Show all DnLStratics newsDue to a little misunderstanding, I had the VWorldTerrain videos in our movies section marked as "by Bionatics". They were made by VWorld and the vegetation in these videos was made by Bionatics. Furthermore I was not aware that the technology used in the most recent evolutions of the VWorldTerrain rendering engine for these videos, is not used in DnL.
     
    Vincent Pourieux, CEO of VWorld, informed me of this mistake and I have promptly corrected it. DnL does not use the most recent version of the VWorld rendering engine, which is being shown in these videos. However the graphics of DnL come pretty close to it even without the most recent features of the VWorldTerrain engine.





     

    Who said that VWorldTerrain was not included into DnL? I guess nobody.

    Even Farlan/NPCube/Alchemic Dream did communicate upon the use of VWorldTerrain/VWorld in Mafate. And they never communicated upon the fact it was not used.  

    DnL Stratics only correctly stated that the most recent version of VWorldTerrain was not used in DnL , which is perfectly true since DnL is making use of the 2002 VWorldTerrain version. Maybe you skipped the caption that was accompanying this particular video in  DnL Stratics videos section (a video from VWORLD which was by mistake presented as a video from DnL by Stratics):    

    This video from VWORLD presents VWorldTerrain technology using Bionatics vegetation. VWorldTerrain is the terrain rendering technology used in the DnL game. The links to the two videos here show VWorldTerrain's recent evolutions (which implemented Bionatics vegetation and many other features) which are NOT included in DnL.

    But since I do appear now in your "blocked users" list, I don't know if you will be able to read my present reply to your interrogations about the development of DnL and the procedural  terrain and meteorology  technology used in it .   

    This peculiar way of asking questions without expecting anwers is becoming a strange habit, on the part of players apparently so very interested in  twists and turns of the development of DnL.   

    That seems to be the case in much of what has recently been slapped up here at mmorpg.com -- incomplete statements and twisted commentary. I guess Im not supposed to think of an action like this as an "attack" on _Pix_'s credibility, Im supposed to take it as an opinion according to one of the posters from DNL here. Sorry doesnt cut it. This is a blatant attempt right here. Omitting the entire information is pathetic.

    And _Pix_ you gotta know, asking questions without expecting answers has been the DNL fans way for a couple years now. This is just an attempt to troll and flame bait.

  • _Pix__Pix_ Member Posts: 276

     

    Originally posted by agh50


    I will break a personal policy, and respond directly to a poster that I prefer not to:
    Look, everyone who happens to enjoy the game is not your enemy.  It  IS completely possible to enjoy the game, (even in its present state), without necessarily  condoning the business practices of the parent company.
    Why do you paint this is such stark colors.?    You paint with too wide a brush.   You don't like the game---got it.  You don't like the company---ditto.  You feel M. Pourieux is getting a raw deal---understood.  Is it ok with you if not everyone shares your point of view?
    That does not make us shills, or dolts, it just means that  WE LIKE THE GAME, (despite it's faults).  Is that ok by you, or do we need your approval?
    We do not demand that you change your views.  We accept that there are valid reasons why you feel the way you do.  But your views are not our views, and we will not accept your judgement on what we may or may not feel about either the game or the company.  You, (by your own admission), played for a very short time.  You did not like it.  You felt used and abused by the company.  Many others feel the same way that you feel, and for valid reasons.  But that is not the view of everyone.  We do not say you are unjustified for the way you feel.  We expect the same courtesy.
    I like Pix.  I tend to accept his explanation in his claim against Farlan.  I don't  KNOW  that he is correct, anymore than you do.  That is for a court to decide.  I have some circumstantial evidence that causes me to believe him.  He was not the ONLY empolyee of Farlan to leave, so that tends to make me believe that it was not merely a personality conflict between Pix and Vuuar.  From my own personal experience, I have learned that a CEO that is inflexible when dealing with subordinates, that takes the attitude of  "My way or the highway", often sees a percentage of his subordinates leave.  If you are the CEO of General Motors, perhaps you can get away with that type of attitude, but with a staff the size of DnL's, well, "that dog don't hunt".  For these (and other) reasons, I tend to think Pix' version of events is more credible.  But even someone convinced of the rightousness of their cause sees it through their own filter.  The other side is equally convinced that their view is correct.  That is why we have a legal system.  Let it do it's work.
    To say, Pix is right because Pix says he is right, and look, see all the reasons why he says this, is not evidence.  It is only one person's point of view on the evidence.  That is why we have a legal system.  Let it do it's work.
    But what I, (or you), may believe about what *should* be is not at all what the law says *should*  be.  It is only clear cut in your own mind.  Perhaps Pix will win, perhaps he will not.  Either way, he has been up-front with me, and I respect him for that.  I wish him well.
    However, it IS possible to like Pix and to like DnL (the game) simultaneously; the two are not mutually exclusive.
    You have chosen to interpret any expression of support for the game as an attack on Pix.   Such is not the case.  You have chosen to interpret any positive comments concerning DnL as having some ulterior motive.  Such is not the case.  You have chosen to see a conspiracy behind anyone's views you disagree with.  Such is not the case.
    You have belittled, insulted and bullied any and all that you do not agree with.  That has not gone un-noticed or un-addressed.
    To quote:
    "(Dude)", let it go".
     

    So here we are agh50... 

     

    The point here is that you pointed out I was an employee of Farlan, which I was not . I was a fellow co-founder, and an employee, granted (for a shorter time that I have been an associate)  of NPCube, and Farlan strictly has nothing to do with that.  BTW that applies to other associates and/or employees of NPCube that left or were fired. As Farlan is an off-shore company, it tends to be a very secret organization (as their website indicates : www.farlan.com) , so perhaps there are also members of Farlan who separated from their company or that their company chose to get separated from, but I am surprised you apparently have this information. 

    Unless you haven't read enough about Farlan and NPCube and their fanciful claims about my employment and the "ownership" they apparently consider it supposedly gives them over VWorldTerrain algorithms, which were written 6 years prior to my employment at NPCube, (and which I continue to improve, without anyone seeing any valid reason of preventing me to do it:  don't you think that NPCube would have sued me or VWORLD if they had been so certain it was their own development ?)

    In that case, I would truly suggest you to read all the litetarure available on the subject. As one of the posters here put it: Reading Is Fundamental. 

    Or you may be more inclined in waiting for the book I might issue in a couple of years, since like you may acknowledge, I tend to enjoy writing more and more. 

    Just as a side note, to qualify your words, and with no intention whatsoever to appear arrogant, I truly think that the player who enjoys  Dark and Light cannot decently hate me really, since without me, there wouldn't be any  terrain and meteorological effects in DnL (to quote my main contribution to the game).  What I see is that apparently the player who likes DnL doesn't seem to like me, and finds every reason to flame me, most of the time. Which I dare say sounds a bit odd. I never criticized the game and  I never prevented people from playing or even buying it. But like I said I am very sorry for all the people that were apparently lied to and overcharged, on more than one occasion for some of them, by Farlan.  And I truly hope some day these people will obtain public excuses from all the people that were responsible for this. 

    Anyhow I can but consider that taking a stand for Farlan and NPCube or even Alchemic Dream or any other company that would have actively supported Farlan/NPCube's doings would be a pure non-sense, and a real danger for the gaming industry.      

    Thank you for reading. 

  • _Pix__Pix_ Member Posts: 276

    Originally posted by heywoodj


     
    Originally posted by _Pix_
    Anyhow I can but consider that taking a stand for Farlan and NPCube or even Alchemic Dream or any other company that would have actively supported Farlan/NPCube's doings would be a pure non-sense, and a real danger for the gaming industry.  

     

    OF COURSE, because your little private quasi-delict has far-reaching consequences, and everyone in the world should care about it and support you, right? The very fate of the universe quite possibly rests in you winning a lawsuit.

    French Civil Code articles 566-575 suggest to me that you're not going to win anything, unless your objective is an auction, or unless you are financially prepared to pay NPCube the difference in value. I'm guessing you're not, or else you would have settled privately.

     


    LoL.

    French Civil Code articles 544,545 and 546 (and many others) suggest me you'd better study French law a bit further. But I guess it would be just nice actually that you could translate 566 and 575 articles you were refering to in order to make sure everybody can have a clear picture of what youare trying to explain. I'm sure this will help a lot. Thanks!

    ( May I suggest you have a look here too? http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/RechercheSimplePartieCode?commun=CPROIN&code=CPROINTL.rcv )

     

This discussion has been closed.