Has SOE ever actually pulled the plug on a game? I always feel safe that as long as even a few thousand players play and enjoy a game , it will be supported and axpanded. Hell they even still support Matrix.
I think it depends on how the game was coded and built. If the coding/building is such that the changes that need to be made can be made in a reasonable way, without totally throwing out all the old code and completely building new code from scratch, I would say they should try to fix it. If the code is a complete programming disaster, then it's probably not worth their time/effort/money to bother re-writing the whole game from scratch (which is what they would have to do, ultimately) -- and especially trying to re-write the game from scratch while it is in live release (which is almost impossible no matter how hard they try).
Now, not being a programmer at SOE, I can't possibly say which situation they are in. But from the perspective of a mere player, just from what I saw in-game and what their patch situation was like while I played it, and how fixing thing #1 broke things #2 and #3 more often than not, I would speculate that the state of the code is not very pretty. If that's the case, then discretion might be the better part of valor.
Just myself But I think SOE should terminate all their games except SWG and EQII and consolidate down to one or two servers on those then focus on making both of those games as good as they can. Two good games are far better than half a dozen mediocre ones.
POBS will be a fantastic niche game as long as Smedley and his pals keeps thier paws off and I have no opinion on Gods and Heroes.
No. They should not terminate. It takes so much time, effort, money, and luck to create a MMO that they need to fix and then build on what they have. Starting from scratch can not be easier than fixing what they have.
I used to be a big fan, but c'mon, you can only say it will be better in 6 months a few times before you realise it won't be. This game is a flop, I am sad about it but it is. let it rest kill it off.
Likely SOE have already sealed VG fate. Whether this is to lip service the small community and conceal the fact the game is not being updated / fixed OR we will see some genuine improvements... OR the game state is so bad no one could fix it without a rewrite.
In the end time will tell. Though IMHO given SOE quantity of over quality I doubt SOE want this direly launched game (not made by themselves but bought cheaply) there flagship title. At the most possibly taking VG core and spending another year producing another game.
But you never know maybe SOE is looking to acquire that next great like this. Sort of rummaging through gargage heaps looking for the abused underdog.
I feel that SOE should terminate both Vanguard and SWG. There has been periminent damage done to these two games that can't be fixed. The horrible release of Vanguard and the lacking content that was promised to be in the game at release by Sigil. The total meltdown that the NGE caused in SWG. I think these two games need to be taken down to two or three servers each until they just fade away and put those resources into a new game be it a SWG2 oe what have you. They need to put up a forum on the subject of their new game and actully listen and interact with their customer base from the begining, and take polls and what ever to help them build their game. And if something can't be done actually take the time to post the reasons why a feature or what have you can't be implimented.
Christ , how can anyone still support this game? I used to be a big fan, but c'mon, you can only say it will be better in 6 months a few times before you realise it won't be.
Yeah, I am getting a little weary of hearing the whole 'it will be better in xx months' line. Sigil, the players and SOE have been spouting this rhetoric since before release, and the game is still nowhere even close to being what should have been considered 'launch-worthy'. Gamers are a fickle bunch, with very long memories. A relaunch is going to do little to inspire confidance in a game that had it's chance to blow everyone away.....and failed.
Current subscribers, 'set yourself free' and find something better to spend your money on.
Strip VG than, but dont let the engine goes waste. Redo it maybe for the new EQ2! Agree with the above post. They shoild just focus on EQ2, SWG (maybe) and greatly add new content to them.
But really surprise that 2 post about the "bad" side of VG shld come from you Healz, Still rem that you were 1 of the most staunch supporters of this game...
These threads make such good toidy paper when printed. Why don't you all concern yourself with games you currently play and let the rest of us enjoy what we like??
Your lack of approval, deep insight to economic, programming and commercial workings of every company out there is stunning. Maybe you should build your own MMO. Nah, bet you would hate to be on the other side of the fence:)
There is no perfect game out there but many types of players with many different styles and tolerances. Liking or not liking a particular MMO is no crime, just a matter of taste. The older the MMO market is, the harder it seems to be to please folks. I know cause I have played so many myself, good and bad. But since it's my credit card, I choose when and who I will spend my money on no matter what the flamers and fanbois have to say. Have to say though, overall I am happy with the efforts of the developers.
In my opinion, SOE forcasted a potential danger when Vanguard was coming out. It had the potential to perform better then EQ2, the best solution is to bring your enemie closer and make them as friends.
Now SOE has EQ2 and their potential enemie is now in their pockets. They can now reverse engineer the source codes and make their EQ2 even better if they want too. Since the entire game belongs to them now, they can do whatever they want and actually get some good ideas because let's face it, Vanguard is FULL of great ideas... It's not the ideas that destroyed Vanguard, it's simply the execution.
However, I think that SOE should just keep both running and get the as much money as they can. With that money, they should just keep working on their next title and try to get it right in one shot. That's where SOE has a hard time... Making a strong impact on it's first day.
These threads make such good toidy paper when printed. Why don't you all concern yourself with games you currently play and let the rest of us enjoy what we like?? Your lack of approval, deep insight to economic, programming and commercial workings of every company out there is stunning. Maybe you should build your own MMO. Nah, bet you would hate to be on the other side of the fence:) There is no perfect game out there but many types of players with many different styles and tolerances. Liking or not liking a particular MMO is no crime, just a matter of taste. The older the MMO market is, the harder it seems to be to please folks. I know cause I have played so many myself, good and bad. But since it's my credit card, I choose when and who I will spend my money on no matter what the flamers and fanbois have to say. Have to say though, overall I am happy with the efforts of the developers.
LOL another affected Vanboi. Why are you concern if people shows disapproval on a public forum? This forum is for discussion regarding Vanguard for both active and inactive players ... for positive AND negative views. If Vanguard is so interesting, you should be playing it. Some random post on the internet shouldn't affect your pleasure in-game at all.
I agree there is no one game that suits all. WoW with its 9M seems to be the closest to the perfect game for ... 9M ppl... more than just about any other game out there. At the other end of the spectrum, we have Vanguard with its dying population and piss poor design ... I say terminate this piece of crap.
The ONE SINGLE REDEEMING FACT regarding Vanguard is that other developers have taken polishing very seriously e.g. AoC. Gone are the days when you can shove out a piece of crappy game and rake in the dough. Now, it has to be genuinely good or else it risks being a "Vanguard" a.k.a. a piece of junk.
Vanguard should be terminated but not forgotten. Let it be a monument of developer arrogance, lies, poor design and polish which ultimately led to its spectacular downfall.
LOL another affected Vanboi. Why are you concern if people shows disapproval on a public forum? This forum is for discussion regarding Vanguard for both active and inactive players ... for positive AND negative views. If Vanguard is so interesting, you should be playing it. Some random post on the internet shouldn't affect your pleasure in-game at all.
I agree there is no one game that suits all. WoW with its 9M seems to be the closest to the perfect game for ... 9M ppl... more than just about any other game out there. At the other end of the spectrum, we have Vanguard with its dying population and piss poor design ... I say terminate this piece of crap.
The ONE SINGLE REDEEMING FACT regarding Vanguard is that other developers have taken polishing very seriously e.g. AoC. Gone are the days when you can shove out a piece of crappy game and rake in the dough. Now, it has to be genuinely good or else it risks being a "Vanguard" a.k.a. a piece of junk.
Vanguard should be terminated but not forgotten. Let it be a monument of developer arrogance, lies, poor design and polish which ultimately led to its spectacular downfall.
Why oh why would you state that the game needs to be terminated?? If people are actually enjoying playing it, why would you want to end their fun when what they do has no impact on you. Before you accuse me of being a Vanguard fanboi, I have never played the game nor would I ... but there is no way I would like to see others enjoyment stopped because I don't like or don't play a game. The more games live the better, then more people are having fun and isn't that the best scenario Zooomg? Or are you one of those people who hates that people are having fun doing something you either don't do, or can't do?
This is a stupidly-worded poll, in my opinion. There is no choice for my opinion, which is to keep the game at the current level of support until a reasonable period after U2, then consider what to do. Also, I don't like how "termination" is being defined. There must be a term that more closely matches the intended meaning and is less inflammatory.
I don't think that giving up on VG development will mean more resources for other released games. These projects tend to be funded according to how much revenue they are generating. Station Pass can confuse the issue, but its effects can be sorted out by looking at actual play time.
I don't think any consideration should be given to the prospective impact of games not yet released.
A decision whether to terminate the game (provide a minimal amount of resources to sustain the game with infrequent updates and patches) should be made subsequent Update 2. If terminating Vanguard would divert resources to a possible SWG 2, I think it would make more sense from a business perspective. It assumes that the market demands a sci-fi MMORPG, which I believe it does.
The world is crowded with fantasy MMORPGs. If terminating Vanguard would not result in enhancing SWG or contribute to the development of SWG 2, then it is a decidedly moot issue. Nevertheless, the point was that SWG, with the right amount of attention, marketing, and so forth is a more viable competitor than Vanguard. EQ 2 is already a competitor and should be supported.
I just do not see where Vanguard's "fit" (position) in the market is.
LOL another affected Vanboi. Why are you concern if people shows disapproval on a public forum? This forum is for discussion regarding Vanguard for both active and inactive players ... for positive AND negative views. If Vanguard is so interesting, you should be playing it. Some random post on the internet shouldn't affect your pleasure in-game at all.
I agree there is no one game that suits all. WoW with its 9M seems to be the closest to the perfect game for ... 9M ppl... more than just about any other game out there. At the other end of the spectrum, we have Vanguard with its dying population and piss poor design ... I say terminate this piece of crap.
The ONE SINGLE REDEEMING FACT regarding Vanguard is that other developers have taken polishing very seriously e.g. AoC. Gone are the days when you can shove out a piece of crappy game and rake in the dough. Now, it has to be genuinely good or else it risks being a "Vanguard" a.k.a. a piece of junk.
Vanguard should be terminated but not forgotten. Let it be a monument of developer arrogance, lies, poor design and polish which ultimately led to its spectacular downfall.
Why oh why would you state that the game needs to be terminated?? If people are actually enjoying playing it, why would you want to end their fun when what they do has no impact on you. Before you accuse me of being a Vanguard fanboi, I have never played the game nor would I ... but there is no way I would like to see others enjoyment stopped because I don't like or don't play a game. The more games live the better, then more people are having fun and isn't that the best scenario Zooomg? Or are you one of those people who hates that people are having fun doing something you either don't do, or can't do?
Sometimes, you have to shoot a few so that the others buck up e.g. AoC. I see it as a good thing. In any case, Vanguard is expendable.
You seriously think here at MMORPG.COM that people would want SOE to boost finances to SWG??????
EQII I can see, but SOE and the SW liscence are done. They have no credability at all.
In fact I would rather them take the resources from SWG and use it for Vanguard then the other way around.
SWG is a monumental creative victory for sci-fi MMORPGs. My one MMORPG wish is to have experienced SWG after its release or sometime shortly thereafter. I believe the game must have seemed extremely advanced, because it seems very advanced to me with somewhat dated but still engaging graphics. Everyone in SWG looks unique, different. I love that. I would love to see a sci-fi MMORPG released with many of the very creative elements in SWG. I think a SWG 2 would be excellent.
I voted to keep Vanguard and SOE should do that. The game has bugs but I like the game play. I am in the process fo getting my sound card fixed and once that is fixed I will be back playing Vanguard. So do not pull the plug.
I voted to keep Vanguard and SOE should do that. The game has bugs but I like the game play. I am in the process fo getting my sound card fixed and once that is fixed I will be back playing Vanguard. So do not pull the plug.
heh heh heh.. why bother to wait? the sound in the game is extremely choppy just as it was in beta, little noise breaks constantly happen.. on top of that, disabling all sound in the game seems to make it run smoother.
Per your definition of termation, yes, SOE should "terminate" Vanguard. They never should've spread their cheeks for Brad in the first place. Vanguard will stick around as a minimally supported Station Pass game for at least a few years, as SOE cannibalizes its, uhhh, "major features" into other games. Case in point: the new ingame card game that's becoming part of both EQs. You know, since it worked soooo well in Vanguard.
I had high hopes for Vanguard, hopes that were quickly dashed by its stillbirth. I'm bearing witness to rampant mudflation, population troubles, and ridiculous design decisions in EQ1. I never played SWG so at least I spared myself from disappointment there.
As Clubber Lang would say: I don't hate SOE, but I pity the fools.
Tempering my expectations for AoC and STO. Here's hoping...
Comments
Has SOE ever actually pulled the plug on a game? I always feel safe that as long as even a few thousand players play and enjoy a game , it will be supported and axpanded. Hell they even still support Matrix.
I think it depends on how the game was coded and built. If the coding/building is such that the changes that need to be made can be made in a reasonable way, without totally throwing out all the old code and completely building new code from scratch, I would say they should try to fix it. If the code is a complete programming disaster, then it's probably not worth their time/effort/money to bother re-writing the whole game from scratch (which is what they would have to do, ultimately) -- and especially trying to re-write the game from scratch while it is in live release (which is almost impossible no matter how hard they try).
Now, not being a programmer at SOE, I can't possibly say which situation they are in. But from the perspective of a mere player, just from what I saw in-game and what their patch situation was like while I played it, and how fixing thing #1 broke things #2 and #3 more often than not, I would speculate that the state of the code is not very pretty. If that's the case, then discretion might be the better part of valor.
C
I want SOE to pour more funds into Vanguard. It's an albatross around their neck. They deserve each other.
Spellborn released yet?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Just myself But I think SOE should terminate all their games except SWG and EQII and consolidate down to one or two servers on those then focus on making both of those games as good as they can. Two good games are far better than half a dozen mediocre ones.
POBS will be a fantastic niche game as long as Smedley and his pals keeps thier paws off and I have no opinion on Gods and Heroes.
I miss DAoC
No. They should not terminate. It takes so much time, effort, money, and luck to create a MMO that they need to fix and then build on what they have. Starting from scratch can not be easier than fixing what they have.
Christ , how can anyone still support this game?
I used to be a big fan, but c'mon, you can only say it will be better in 6 months a few times before you realise it won't be. This game is a flop, I am sad about it but it is. let it rest kill it off.
This game will never be what it should be, NEVER.
Likely SOE have already sealed VG fate. Whether this is to lip service the small community and conceal the fact the game is not being updated / fixed OR we will see some genuine improvements... OR the game state is so bad no one could fix it without a rewrite.
In the end time will tell. Though IMHO given SOE quantity of over quality I doubt SOE want this direly launched game (not made by themselves but bought cheaply) there flagship title. At the most possibly taking VG core and spending another year producing another game.
But you never know maybe SOE is looking to acquire that next great like this. Sort of rummaging through gargage heaps looking for the abused underdog.
I feel that SOE should terminate both Vanguard and SWG. There has been periminent damage done to these two games that can't be fixed. The horrible release of Vanguard and the lacking content that was promised to be in the game at release by Sigil. The total meltdown that the NGE caused in SWG. I think these two games need to be taken down to two or three servers each until they just fade away and put those resources into a new game be it a SWG2 oe what have you. They need to put up a forum on the subject of their new game and actully listen and interact with their customer base from the begining, and take polls and what ever to help them build their game. And if something can't be done actually take the time to post the reasons why a feature or what have you can't be implimented.
Convert the Vanguard servers to brand new and shiny EQ2 servers, give away the software and a shitload of free playtime to VG vets with some perks.
Why should SOE compete against itself. They'd make more money focussing resources to EQ2 than putting up with the headache that is Vanguard.
Current subscribers, 'set yourself free' and find something better to spend your money on.
Strip VG than, but dont let the engine goes waste. Redo it maybe for the new EQ2! Agree with the above post. They shoild just focus on EQ2, SWG (maybe) and greatly add new content to them.
But really surprise that 2 post about the "bad" side of VG shld come from you Healz, Still rem that you were 1 of the most staunch supporters of this game...
RIP Orc Choppa
These threads make such good toidy paper when printed. Why don't you all concern yourself with games you currently play and let the rest of us enjoy what we like??
Your lack of approval, deep insight to economic, programming and commercial workings of every company out there is stunning. Maybe you should build your own MMO. Nah, bet you would hate to be on the other side of the fence:)
There is no perfect game out there but many types of players with many different styles and tolerances. Liking or not liking a particular MMO is no crime, just a matter of taste. The older the MMO market is, the harder it seems to be to please folks. I know cause I have played so many myself, good and bad. But since it's my credit card, I choose when and who I will spend my money on no matter what the flamers and fanbois have to say. Have to say though, overall I am happy with the efforts of the developers.
In my opinion, SOE forcasted a potential danger when Vanguard was coming out. It had the potential to perform better then EQ2, the best solution is to bring your enemie closer and make them as friends.
Now SOE has EQ2 and their potential enemie is now in their pockets. They can now reverse engineer the source codes and make their EQ2 even better if they want too. Since the entire game belongs to them now, they can do whatever they want and actually get some good ideas because let's face it, Vanguard is FULL of great ideas... It's not the ideas that destroyed Vanguard, it's simply the execution.
However, I think that SOE should just keep both running and get the as much money as they can. With that money, they should just keep working on their next title and try to get it right in one shot. That's where SOE has a hard time... Making a strong impact on it's first day.
LOL another affected Vanboi. Why are you concern if people shows disapproval on a public forum? This forum is for discussion regarding Vanguard for both active and inactive players ... for positive AND negative views. If Vanguard is so interesting, you should be playing it. Some random post on the internet shouldn't affect your pleasure in-game at all.
I agree there is no one game that suits all. WoW with its 9M seems to be the closest to the perfect game for ... 9M ppl... more than just about any other game out there. At the other end of the spectrum, we have Vanguard with its dying population and piss poor design ... I say terminate this piece of crap.
The ONE SINGLE REDEEMING FACT regarding Vanguard is that other developers have taken polishing very seriously e.g. AoC. Gone are the days when you can shove out a piece of crappy game and rake in the dough. Now, it has to be genuinely good or else it risks being a "Vanguard" a.k.a. a piece of junk.
Vanguard should be terminated but not forgotten. Let it be a monument of developer arrogance, lies, poor design and polish which ultimately led to its spectacular downfall.
LOL another affected Vanboi. Why are you concern if people shows disapproval on a public forum? This forum is for discussion regarding Vanguard for both active and inactive players ... for positive AND negative views. If Vanguard is so interesting, you should be playing it. Some random post on the internet shouldn't affect your pleasure in-game at all.
I agree there is no one game that suits all. WoW with its 9M seems to be the closest to the perfect game for ... 9M ppl... more than just about any other game out there. At the other end of the spectrum, we have Vanguard with its dying population and piss poor design ... I say terminate this piece of crap.
The ONE SINGLE REDEEMING FACT regarding Vanguard is that other developers have taken polishing very seriously e.g. AoC. Gone are the days when you can shove out a piece of crappy game and rake in the dough. Now, it has to be genuinely good or else it risks being a "Vanguard" a.k.a. a piece of junk.
Vanguard should be terminated but not forgotten. Let it be a monument of developer arrogance, lies, poor design and polish which ultimately led to its spectacular downfall.
Why oh why would you state that the game needs to be terminated?? If people are actually enjoying playing it, why would you want to end their fun when what they do has no impact on you. Before you accuse me of being a Vanguard fanboi, I have never played the game nor would I ... but there is no way I would like to see others enjoyment stopped because I don't like or don't play a game. The more games live the better, then more people are having fun and isn't that the best scenario Zooomg? Or are you one of those people who hates that people are having fun doing something you either don't do, or can't do?
This is a stupidly-worded poll, in my opinion. There is no choice for my opinion, which is to keep the game at the current level of support until a reasonable period after U2, then consider what to do. Also, I don't like how "termination" is being defined. There must be a term that more closely matches the intended meaning and is less inflammatory.
I don't think that giving up on VG development will mean more resources for other released games. These projects tend to be funded according to how much revenue they are generating. Station Pass can confuse the issue, but its effects can be sorted out by looking at actual play time.
I don't think any consideration should be given to the prospective impact of games not yet released.
A decision whether to terminate the game (provide a minimal amount of resources to sustain the game with infrequent updates and patches) should be made subsequent Update 2. If terminating Vanguard would divert resources to a possible SWG 2, I think it would make more sense from a business perspective. It assumes that the market demands a sci-fi MMORPG, which I believe it does.
The world is crowded with fantasy MMORPGs. If terminating Vanguard would not result in enhancing SWG or contribute to the development of SWG 2, then it is a decidedly moot issue. Nevertheless, the point was that SWG, with the right amount of attention, marketing, and so forth is a more viable competitor than Vanguard. EQ 2 is already a competitor and should be supported.
I just do not see where Vanguard's "fit" (position) in the market is.
LOL another affected Vanboi. Why are you concern if people shows disapproval on a public forum? This forum is for discussion regarding Vanguard for both active and inactive players ... for positive AND negative views. If Vanguard is so interesting, you should be playing it. Some random post on the internet shouldn't affect your pleasure in-game at all.
I agree there is no one game that suits all. WoW with its 9M seems to be the closest to the perfect game for ... 9M ppl... more than just about any other game out there. At the other end of the spectrum, we have Vanguard with its dying population and piss poor design ... I say terminate this piece of crap.
The ONE SINGLE REDEEMING FACT regarding Vanguard is that other developers have taken polishing very seriously e.g. AoC. Gone are the days when you can shove out a piece of crappy game and rake in the dough. Now, it has to be genuinely good or else it risks being a "Vanguard" a.k.a. a piece of junk.
Vanguard should be terminated but not forgotten. Let it be a monument of developer arrogance, lies, poor design and polish which ultimately led to its spectacular downfall.
Why oh why would you state that the game needs to be terminated?? If people are actually enjoying playing it, why would you want to end their fun when what they do has no impact on you. Before you accuse me of being a Vanguard fanboi, I have never played the game nor would I ... but there is no way I would like to see others enjoyment stopped because I don't like or don't play a game. The more games live the better, then more people are having fun and isn't that the best scenario Zooomg? Or are you one of those people who hates that people are having fun doing something you either don't do, or can't do?
Sometimes, you have to shoot a few so that the others buck up e.g. AoC. I see it as a good thing. In any case, Vanguard is expendable.
I certainly hope that SoE never terminates support for Vanguard. I happen to greatly enjoy the game.
Loothur VonRichten
Wood Elven Ranger of the Florendyl RP Server
You seriously think here at MMORPG.COM that people would want SOE to boost finances to SWG??????
EQII I can see, but SOE and the SW liscence are done. They have no credability at all.
In fact I would rather them take the resources from SWG and use it for Vanguard then the other way around.
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self.
--Aristotle
I voted to keep Vanguard and SOE should do that. The game has bugs but I like the game play. I am in the process fo getting my sound card fixed and once that is fixed I will be back playing Vanguard. So do not pull the plug.
heh heh heh.. why bother to wait? the sound in the game is extremely choppy just as it was in beta, little noise breaks constantly happen.. on top of that, disabling all sound in the game seems to make it run smoother.
Per your definition of termation, yes, SOE should "terminate" Vanguard. They never should've spread their cheeks for Brad in the first place. Vanguard will stick around as a minimally supported Station Pass game for at least a few years, as SOE cannibalizes its, uhhh, "major features" into other games. Case in point: the new ingame card game that's becoming part of both EQs. You know, since it worked soooo well in Vanguard.
I had high hopes for Vanguard, hopes that were quickly dashed by its stillbirth. I'm bearing witness to rampant mudflation, population troubles, and ridiculous design decisions in EQ1. I never played SWG so at least I spared myself from disappointment there.
As Clubber Lang would say: I don't hate SOE, but I pity the fools.
Tempering my expectations for AoC and STO. Here's hoping...
EDIT: S & G