To sum it up, WoW is one of those run of the mill MMO's
It's OK, nothing more... Not many people really like it to be honest. I mean, you just have to browse through these forums to discover that.
To be honest, not many people play WoW, it's dieing and loosing a massive amount of subs per day. The PvP system is flawed and requires no skill and the only people who play it are under 13 years old.
Some will say: its world of worldcrack, but the truth is that it's the best PvE game on market. Blizzard made the best PvE game 3+ year's, and a year ago they tryed to add some PvP elements in game, to bring even more players in game. For a short period of time it worked, when the old ranks were in play, but with bleesing afk'ers in bg and some funny, not to say curious, approach to pvp segment they turned it in grind gest. But 9 mil. players are respectable number, we like it or not.
Why is WoW so popular?
Game is so simple designed that even blizzard programiesrs dont know how to balance classes/skills anymore, so they simply add few more lvls, some new jobs, some new weapons/gear, new class balnces from time time.... I don't know, this new expansion is just more of the same. They can say new zones - radomly generated landscapes, new dunngeons - see before, new monsters - new skins on old monstes, new gear - added stats on old gear... etc.
Addictive?
Some will say, its addictive game. Maybee, but only if u allow it, and since game is rated 13+ ..well, it's easy to manipulate with 13+ kid's, ask any psycholog. And how to make this game reachable for those 13+ kids ? Witc CC way of payment, add game cards payment.
Socialize?
Well, this world doesn't fit somehow with wow, when average is 16 or 17y. Imagine (from my own experience) a pug in SL, we had a rogue (nowcommer in wow) in random party, on second boss no1 told him that he should take adds...we wiped....big deal, BUT, leader was cursing the pure guy (or girl, dunno) coz he wasn't on adds. He was kicked. Wellcome to WoW, where everyone expect that u are borned with all knowledge. Socialize - my a$$.
There is no reason you shouldn't play WoW. WoW is a great game with good PVP and story line. Graphics are good and the community is acceptable most of the time. When I played WoW a little over a year ago I really enjoyed the game. If you have the software I can send you a buddy code just PM me.
Play because its one of the best MMOGs out there, and the trial is free. Its as casual as you make it or as hardcore as you want it to be. Throw out bad habbits learned from past MMOGs...mainly, don't rush. Take your time, don't obsess over EXP per hour and just explore and have fun. Do all the dungeons. Sure you don't HAVE TO, but thats a lot of content you're skipping. Best leveling/questing you're going to find. Be social. The endgame depends on it. If you have no friends by the time you get to 60 or 70, don't be suprised if it becomes difficult to do the harder dungeons. Its amazing what happens when you actually talk to other people instead of complaining, LIKE MANY DO HERE, that "NO one talks to me, so the community sucks." Everytime I hear that I get images of the loser standing in the corner of the nightclub wondering why he isn't having a good time. WOW's community is just like every other. If you're nice and social, you'll find people to play with in no time. If you're a mute or an elitist prick, what do you expect? Check that...being an elitist prick will make you feel right at home in Eve=)
Endgame is all about hardcore timesinking. You cant be casual and get nice stuff at 70 (Soon to be 80). 70 is where all the "elitists" are. Groups are way harder to find these days, because people prefer getting boosted in instances rather than have a normal 5-man. And in EvE, people atleast try to help you out, instead of yelling "thottbot" or "lolz noob".
I'm starting to doubt whether you know what you're talking about.
But back to topic:
If you feel like trying it, try it. Then make up your mind. Not beforehand.
-PvP is meaningless, if you like DAOC (played it from beta to atlantis) you ll find it boring and with no point besides "farming" other players to get pvp points so yu can afford new items after a long while.. because you dont enter BGs like you used to in DAOC ( take and handle the castle) you enter BG to "grind" enemy without any penalty.
Just to post a different view on this paticular example..
PvP in DAoC consists of... farming other players for realm points which you use to buy "realm abilities" so that you have more Iwin buttons to press per fight. Which depending on your current realm level can take a long while...
Or dealing with your realm suddenly having 10x its normal population due to "relic hoppers"...
Just not exactly a good example imho. If a paticular person liked DAoC better than WoW (I dislike both equally as daoc turned into a joke imho) that's their personal point of view. There is nothing in DAoC that makes it objectively better than any other game... subjectively perhaps.. Altho before the idiots made "new frontiers" that game was pretty good.
Also if you were in much of any active guild that wanted to run guild groups.. you were expected to play certain days/nights for x amount of hours.
That's the thing.. if you are interested in a game... try it YOURself! Other people are just going to give you their point of view.. which may not be the same as yours... or even close.
You'll hear a lot about the community.. I'll guess that depends on the server. In my personal experience the community *I* (that's me personally) met in lotro or eq2.. were far worse than WoW. (that again is just a personal experience... which is why you take the free trial and decide for yourself...)
*disclaimer*
the things *I* posted are from my point of view or personal experience. Which doesn't always mesh with the light some try to shed on subjects. Which does NOT mean they are lying... it just means they have a different point of view.
You simply should play any game you find fun, it shouldn't be because it has the most players, or is voted the highest on some site, or has mad fanboy overhype, bottom line is what i just said, you should play whatever game you find fun.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
-PvP is meaningless, if you like DAOC (played it from beta to atlantis) you ll find it boring and with no point besides "farming" other players to get pvp points so yu can afford new items after a long while.. because you dont enter BGs like you used to in DAOC ( take and handle the castle) you enter BG to "grind" enemy without any penalty.
Just to post a different view on this paticular example..
PvP in DAoC consists of... farming other players for realm points which you use to buy "realm abilities" so that you have more Iwin buttons to press per fight. Which depending on your current realm level can take a long while...
Or dealing with your realm suddenly having 10x its normal population due to "relic hoppers"...
Just not exactly a good example imho. If a paticular person liked DAoC better than WoW (I dislike both equally as daoc turned into a joke imho) that's their personal point of view. There is nothing in DAoC that makes it objectively better than any other game... subjectively perhaps.. Altho before the idiots made "new frontiers" that game was pretty good.
Also if you were in much of any active guild that wanted to run guild groups.. you were expected to play certain days/nights for x amount of hours.
That's the thing.. if you are interested in a game... try it YOURself! Other people are just going to give you their point of view.. which may not be the same as yours... or even close.
You'll hear a lot about the community.. I'll guess that depends on the server. In my personal experience the community *I* (that's me personally) met in lotro or eq2.. were far worse than WoW. (that again is just a personal experience... which is why you take the free trial and decide for yourself...)
*disclaimer*
the things *I* posted are from my point of view or personal experience. Which doesn't always mesh with the light some try to shed on subjects. Which does NOT mean they are lying... it just means they have a different point of view.
i was refering to pre atlantis, when i played.. back then having control of the abyses meant something. Dont know how it turned now ( although i heard it became a joke like you said). But i bac when i played it was stil the best pvp fun i had.
I also should have be more specific as i was thinking about frontier lands and not the low/mid lvl BGs wher you defenitly pretty much only farmed so you could get high lvl eazyer though the pvp skills. But even then it was still more fun than WOW BGs IMO (exept for alterac WHEN yuo could enter as a clan raid).
BUt like you said, its all about different point of views
I like the leveling times people are posting and mentioning casual in the same sentence.
I went from beta into release and it too me 10 months to get to level 60. That is casual. I did a lot of RP, crafting, open PvP in the towns like Southshore, and I am not a grinder most of the time. (I liked the open PvP style MUCH better than the battlegrounds and arenas, but that is me I guess) So, depending on your play style it could take a while to get through the levels, but my point is why care? Just enjoy the ride along the way.
To sum it up, WoW is one of those run of the mill MMO's It's OK, nothing more... Not many people really like it to be honest. I mean, you just have to browse through these forums to discover that.
To be honest, not many people play WoW, it's dieing and loosing a massive amount of subs per day. The PvP system is flawed and requires no skill and the only people who play it are under 13 years old.
I give it another 3 months.
I agree completely, no wonder WoW now has over 9 million active subscribing accounts. That sure is less than the 5 million months ago.
Originally posted by MMORPDEATH
thx so much for that guys. fyi all, Ive played the 10 day trial but it doesnt touch the game in reality, and i wont devote too much time to it.
If I could, I'd like to steer the convo to :can you compete decently in pvp w/ non-grinded out gear?
You're basically asking if a person who does not devote any time to get gear to PvP will stand a chance against people that actually try. You will stand a chance if you at least try a little to get gear. Don't expect people to die at your feet if you don't "grind out" gear.
To sum it up, WoW is one of those run of the mill MMO's It's OK, nothing more... Not many people really like it to be honest. I mean, you just have to browse through these forums to discover that.
To be honest, not many people play WoW, it's dieing and loosing a massive amount of subs per day. The PvP system is flawed and requires no skill and the only people who play it are under 13 years old.
I give it another 3 months.
I agree completely, no wonder WoW now has over 9 million active subscribing accounts. That sure is less than the 5 million months ago.
Originally posted by MMORPDEATH
thx so much for that guys. fyi all, Ive played the 10 day trial but it doesnt touch the game in reality, and i wont devote too much time to it.
If I could, I'd like to steer the convo to :can you compete decently in pvp w/ non-grinded out gear?
You're basically asking if a person who does not devote any time to get gear to PvP will stand a chance against people that actually try. You will stand a chance if you at least try a little to get gear. Don't expect people to die at your feet if you don't "grind out" gear.
And there is the biggest problem with PVP in WoW. For some reason repetitive honor, faction or raid grinding means you should be better in PVP. Blizzard has duped people into believing this is a good thing.
To answer your question MMORPDEATH. NO if you do not grind out good gear you will be totally outmatched in PVP. Expect to lose for weeks to months (depending on how much you play) until you have earned enough points to buy all the PVP gear you will need. Or expect to same months raiding to get all the gear you need.
A level 70 wearing full tier 6 will wipe the floor with a level 70 wearing uncommon and rare drops. Same for the Arena gear stuff they will wipe an average player. World of Warcraft is one of the biggest advocates of have and have nots in the MMO world. They really got their inspirition down from the first EQ game.
(I have seen people who were better PVPers, knew there class better, etc get wiped by an average player if the average player had better gear)
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I've been avoiding it for a long time, the cartoony graphics and childishness really got on my nerves, but I think Im finally over that. Ive played DAOC, EQ2, SWG, EVE, etc... a lot of games that didnt cut it for me, whether because im a casual player or other factors. DAOC I liked the most, but the fact that cartoony WAR will erase it pisses me off so I dont want to devote time to it. What are the reasons for me NOT to play wow? What are its main faults? Are raid, pvp, crafting, or other types of grinding really necessary to compete well in PVP?
There aren't any, give it a shot. You've already overcome what seems to be one of your main problems with the game, it's cartoony graphics. And I'd be surprised if once you start playing you don't totally forget about the graphics and may even find yourself getting lost in the atmosphere. Take the 10 day free trial. If you don't like it after 10 days, you probably never will.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
I've been avoiding it for a long time, the cartoony graphics and childishness really got on my nerves, but I think Im finally over that. Ive played DAOC, EQ2, SWG, EVE, etc... a lot of games that didnt cut it for me, whether because im a casual player or other factors. DAOC I liked the most, but the fact that cartoony WAR will erase it pisses me off so I dont want to devote time to it. What are the reasons for me NOT to play wow? What are its main faults? Are raid, pvp, crafting, or other types of grinding really necessary to compete well in PVP?
There aren't any, give it a shot. You've already overcome what seems to be one of your main problems with the game, it's cartoony graphics. And I'd be surprised if once you start playing you don't totally forget about the graphics and may even find yourself getting lost in the atmosphere. Take the 10 day free trial. If you don't like it after 10 days, you probably never will.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
I've been avoiding it for a long time, the cartoony graphics and childishness really got on my nerves, but I think Im finally over that. Ive played DAOC, EQ2, SWG, EVE, etc... a lot of games that didnt cut it for me, whether because im a casual player or other factors. DAOC I liked the most, but the fact that cartoony WAR will erase it pisses me off so I dont want to devote time to it. What are the reasons for me NOT to play wow? What are its main faults? Are raid, pvp, crafting, or other types of grinding really necessary to compete well in PVP?
There aren't any, give it a shot. You've already overcome what seems to be one of your main problems with the game, it's cartoony graphics. And I'd be surprised if once you start playing you don't totally forget about the graphics and may even find yourself getting lost in the atmosphere. Take the 10 day free trial. If you don't like it after 10 days, you probably never will.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
I've been avoiding it for a long time, the cartoony graphics and childishness really got on my nerves, but I think Im finally over that. Ive played DAOC, EQ2, SWG, EVE, etc... a lot of games that didnt cut it for me, whether because im a casual player or other factors. DAOC I liked the most, but the fact that cartoony WAR will erase it pisses me off so I dont want to devote time to it. What are the reasons for me NOT to play wow? What are its main faults? Are raid, pvp, crafting, or other types of grinding really necessary to compete well in PVP?
There aren't any, give it a shot. You've already overcome what seems to be one of your main problems with the game, it's cartoony graphics. And I'd be surprised if once you start playing you don't totally forget about the graphics and may even find yourself getting lost in the atmosphere. Take the 10 day free trial. If you don't like it after 10 days, you probably never will.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
So you agree with me then.
Yes and no, remove the term "well" from the OPs post and from your statement then yes I will agree .
I've been avoiding it for a long time, the cartoony graphics and childishness really got on my nerves, but I think Im finally over that. Ive played DAOC, EQ2, SWG, EVE, etc... a lot of games that didnt cut it for me, whether because im a casual player or other factors. DAOC I liked the most, but the fact that cartoony WAR will erase it pisses me off so I dont want to devote time to it. What are the reasons for me NOT to play wow? What are its main faults? Are raid, pvp, crafting, or other types of grinding really necessary to compete well in PVP?
There aren't any, give it a shot. You've already overcome what seems to be one of your main problems with the game, it's cartoony graphics. And I'd be surprised if once you start playing you don't totally forget about the graphics and may even find yourself getting lost in the atmosphere. Take the 10 day free trial. If you don't like it after 10 days, you probably never will.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
So you agree with me then.
Yes and no, remove the term "well" from the OPs post and from your statement then yes I will agree .
Reread my post and you'll notice I said to compete "well" you do not have to raid or craft. I alluded to the fact to be competitive you will need PvP gear, so basically I'm saying to PvP "well" you will indeed need PvP gear. But you can get that gear by simply doing nothing but playing PvP. You will of course have to expect to take a bit of a beating until you get some decent gear. Is this not what you are saying?
Oh no you are right mate I read the post wrong. My apologies.
Edit:: Just to point out though, my statements weren't incorrect and per what the OP is asking you will need some form or method of grinding or association with a group that has access to great gear w/enchantments (for twink bgs) to compete "well" imo. You don't have to raid or craft, but you need access to gear and enchantments. (I suppose you could buy gold)
I'm just assuming the OP is asking "Will I need to actually work for something first before I can play PvP (well) as opposed to just going into PvP and relying on skill to dictate in competing (well) and the answer is yes."
The graphics are fine with me I'm more interested in the fun factor and Wow is fun with a good guild, I have many old friends I play with that have hung with me for 25+ years and dozens of MMO's.
When it's not fun any longer we move on, I may go back to AO for awhile off and on as I liked that game alot. But the guild play there just didn't hold a candle to WOW's and if its not fun with a guild its to tough to play solo.
Pvp in wow is the way it should be, a choice. I dont like games that are full pvp, and getting gear in pvp in wow is not that difficult.
Several of my friends have made High Warlord on our server and have Sick Gear for it, but it takes patience and time if you want to top out in PVP.
In 25+ years I've learned one thing about MMO's! None will ever have every aspect I would want in a game and I'm sure that goes for many other Xtream Gamer's like Me.
I've been avoiding it for a long time, the cartoony graphics and childishness really got on my nerves, but I think Im finally over that. Ive played DAOC, EQ2, SWG, EVE, etc... a lot of games that didnt cut it for me, whether because im a casual player or other factors. DAOC I liked the most, but the fact that cartoony WAR will erase it pisses me off so I dont want to devote time to it. What are the reasons for me NOT to play wow? What are its main faults? Are raid, pvp, crafting, or other types of grinding really necessary to compete well in PVP?
yes absolutly.. this game is more or less totaly gear dependent to the max..world pvp is more or less non existant.. battlegrounds are ok, but you get bored fast (atleast i did).. because the only thing that is to do after lvl 70.. is grinding grinding grinding grinding..
- Instance (all about getting gear/Weapons/items - Loot grind)
- Battlegrounds (all about getting honnor to buy armor/weapons/items - honnor grind)
- Reputation (grind grind grind)
- Crafting could be nice, if it whas a little more into it, and not every good item you can make needed loot from an instance.
sad story is, when you have got the items you have used so long time to get, you most likely gonna leave the game.. ( i did)
i had a raid paladin that i used lots of time getting full judgement armor for (best looking armor in the game imo), and how good are those items now?
TBC killed wow, and all armors in wow looks like starship troopers armor these days..
Well Said Pappy, Thank you Several of my friends have made High Warlord on our server and have Sick Gear for it, but it takes patience and time if you want to top out in PVP. Just in case anyone is not aware, in WoW PvP ranks do not matteranymore and in fact your rank no longer changes. It is no longer necessary to achieve a high rank to get some really nice PvP gear. PvP gear is now dependant on you earning honor and marks from the various battlegrounds by participating in them. You can earn both by simply partaking in the battlegrounds and/or arenas and it's a lot easier than you might expect. Even a casual PvP'er could expect to obtain a new piece of PvP gear around once a week or so at level 70. I'm not really sure how it works at lower levels since I have not tried it since they changed it, but I expect its similar.
There really is no reason not to give wow a try. Really, no reason at all. I have found most of the people who trash the game are those that 1) Have played to level 70 and couldn't be bothered to spend the time grinding the higher level gear, 2) Ground out the necessary gear at 60 only to have it nerfed by the level spike to 70, or 3) Simply played the game to a point where they became tired of it.
The point is, player fatigue happens in all MMO's. Name your game, insert mmo name here, add two years of play, and guess what? Fatigue...I have seen the same reason for disliking a game over and over. Personally it happened to me with SWG, which was the game I spent the most time playing. Despite the changes, which probably wouldn't have mattered in the long run, I simply tired of seeing the same landscapes, mobs, even people sometimes. It happens in all games. I was even one of the few happy to see the CU simply because it might add something new to do (sorry not so much NGE, but I did keep playing for a bit).
To a point, I think fatigue is the main reason we see so many "I hate wow" posts. There have been so many more people playing wow than any other game, that we see them posting the same tripe you will see about every other game out there that is 2+ years old. CoH has them, EvE has them, EQ1+2 has them. It's the way these things work. People send an ungodly amount of time playing these games, and it is fun! The one thing they don't bother addressing is that the game (most of them) really is not that different from when they started, yet that one "little" change was enough to send them over the edge (this part is not related to swg). The point is, that one little change was really, honestly, little. You should thank your brain for kicking you to do something else from time to time, even if it means hating that one thing you thought you would always enjoy.
WoW really is not a bad game, better, and with 3x the content of 95% of the hack games this site lists. Should you give it a try, if you are so intrigued, well yes!? Will you still be there 4 years from now? For your own sanity, I hope not...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Oh no you are right mate I read the post wrong. My apologies. Edit:: Just to point out though, my statements weren't incorrect and per what the OP is asking you will need some form or method of grinding or association with a group that has access to great gear w/enchantments (for twink bgs) to compete "well" imo. You don't have to raid or craft, but you need access to gear and enchantments. (I suppose you could buy gold) I'm just assuming the OP is asking "Will I need to actually work for something first before I can play PvP (well) as opposed to just going into PvP and relying on skill to dictate in competing (well) and the answer is yes."
Yes, you're absolutely correct. You cannot expect to simply walk into the battlegrounds and be competitive from the start. You'll get out of it what you put into it. The more you put into it, the more you will get out of it, both gear wise and skill wise. And when I say skill wise, I believe it takes skill to PvP well. Having the best gear in the world will not help you if you don't know not only the strengths and weaknesses of your class/character, but also the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents class and being able to taken advantage of those strengths and weaknesses. So neither skill nor gear alone will make you the best. A combination of the 2 is required.
Oh no you are right mate I read the post wrong. My apologies. Edit:: Just to point out though, my statements weren't incorrect and per what the OP is asking you will need some form or method of grinding or association with a group that has access to great gear w/enchantments (for twink bgs) to compete "well" imo. You don't have to raid or craft, but you need access to gear and enchantments. (I suppose you could buy gold) I'm just assuming the OP is asking "Will I need to actually work for something first before I can play PvP (well) as opposed to just going into PvP and relying on skill to dictate in competing (well) and the answer is yes."
Yes, you're absolutely correct. You cannot expect to simply walk into the battlegrounds and be competitive from the start. You'll get out of it what you put into it. The more you put into it, the more you will get out of it, both gear wise and skill wise. And when I say skill wise, I believe it takes skill to PvP well. Having the best gear in the world will not help you if you don't know not only the strengths and weaknesses of your class/character, but also the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents class and being able to taken advantage of those strengths and weaknesses. So neither skill nor gear alone will make you the best. A combination of the 2 is required.
Indeed the combination of the 2 is required imo as well, especially if you want to be the best, but just for the record I never said that skill isn't required to compete well. I was just pointing out that gear vs skill, the former is more important than the latter in World of Warcraft.
If you get two people that have T6 or A2 (insert class) that are the same build, the person with the greater skill ( strategy, reflexes, coordination, etc.) will win.
But if you get two people and one has a T6 or A2 and the other is in greens or blues. What do you think are his chances? Even if he has the greater skill?
thx so much for that guys. fyi all, Ive played the 10 day trial but it doesnt touch the game in reality, and i wont devote too much time to it.
If I could, I'd like to steer the convo to :can you compete decently in pvp w/ non-grinded out gear?
That's a really tough question to answer because it depends a lot on what you consider competing decently and non-grinded out.
If you mean by decently, can I get in and compete against the very best of the best. The answer is no, not without similar gear. However if you mean can I expect to do reasonably well against others who are not the best of the best, just your average gamer. The answer is maybe depending on what you consider non-grinded out gear.
If you consider non-grinded out gear stuff you could pick up just doing some quests. The answer is no. You'll need better gear than that. However one of the way you can get decent PvP gear is thru PvP. As you play you'll pick up honor and marks from playing in battlegrounds. You can then turn in those honor points and marks for PvP gear. The more points and marks you have, the better the gear you can get. So obviously it will require a bit of time. If you consider that "grinding", then the answer to your question is no. But since you're interested in PvP, you're going to want to play some PvP. And by doing that, you'll get some decent gear. It won't be the best of the best gear, because to do that you'll have to do additional things like get enchants and such which will require some additional time and cash.
So you see, it's not an easy question to answer. There's a lot of factors that play into it. The one thing that is absolutely certain is that you can't just walk into the battlegrounds with crap gear and own just because you have leet skills. Not going to happen.
Comments
To sum it up, WoW is one of those run of the mill MMO's
It's OK, nothing more... Not many people really like it to be honest. I mean, you just have to browse through these forums to discover that.
To be honest, not many people play WoW, it's dieing and loosing a massive amount of subs per day. The PvP system is flawed and requires no skill and the only people who play it are under 13 years old.
I give it another 3 months.
There is no reason not to try. Find out for yourself what it's all about. You may love it, you may hate it. Only one way to find out.
How to describe WoW ?
Some will say: its world of worldcrack, but the truth is that it's the best PvE game on market. Blizzard made the best PvE game 3+ year's, and a year ago they tryed to add some PvP elements in game, to bring even more players in game. For a short period of time it worked, when the old ranks were in play, but with bleesing afk'ers in bg and some funny, not to say curious, approach to pvp segment they turned it in grind gest. But 9 mil. players are respectable number, we like it or not.
Why is WoW so popular?
Game is so simple designed that even blizzard programiesrs dont know how to balance classes/skills anymore, so they simply add few more lvls, some new jobs, some new weapons/gear, new class balnces from time time.... I don't know, this new expansion is just more of the same. They can say new zones - radomly generated landscapes, new dunngeons - see before, new monsters - new skins on old monstes, new gear - added stats on old gear... etc.
Addictive?
Some will say, its addictive game. Maybee, but only if u allow it, and since game is rated 13+ ..well, it's easy to manipulate with 13+ kid's, ask any psycholog. And how to make this game reachable for those 13+ kids ? Witc CC way of payment, add game cards payment.
Socialize?
Well, this world doesn't fit somehow with wow, when average is 16 or 17y. Imagine (from my own experience) a pug in SL, we had a rogue (nowcommer in wow) in random party, on second boss no1 told him that he should take adds...we wiped....big deal, BUT, leader was cursing the pure guy (or girl, dunno) coz he wasn't on adds. He was kicked. Wellcome to WoW, where everyone expect that u are borned with all knowledge. Socialize - my a$$.
There is no reason you shouldn't play WoW. WoW is a great game with good PVP and story line. Graphics are good and the community is acceptable most of the time. When I played WoW a little over a year ago I really enjoyed the game. If you have the software I can send you a buddy code just PM me.
Endgame is all about hardcore timesinking. You cant be casual and get nice stuff at 70 (Soon to be 80). 70 is where all the "elitists" are. Groups are way harder to find these days, because people prefer getting boosted in instances rather than have a normal 5-man. And in EvE, people atleast try to help you out, instead of yelling "thottbot" or "lolz noob".
I'm starting to doubt whether you know what you're talking about.
But back to topic:
If you feel like trying it, try it. Then make up your mind. Not beforehand.
Just to post a different view on this paticular example..
PvP in DAoC consists of... farming other players for realm points which you use to buy "realm abilities" so that you have more Iwin buttons to press per fight. Which depending on your current realm level can take a long while...
Or dealing with your realm suddenly having 10x its normal population due to "relic hoppers"...
Just not exactly a good example imho. If a paticular person liked DAoC better than WoW (I dislike both equally as daoc turned into a joke imho) that's their personal point of view. There is nothing in DAoC that makes it objectively better than any other game... subjectively perhaps.. Altho before the idiots made "new frontiers" that game was pretty good.
Also if you were in much of any active guild that wanted to run guild groups.. you were expected to play certain days/nights for x amount of hours.
That's the thing.. if you are interested in a game... try it YOURself! Other people are just going to give you their point of view.. which may not be the same as yours... or even close.
You'll hear a lot about the community.. I'll guess that depends on the server. In my personal experience the community *I* (that's me personally) met in lotro or eq2.. were far worse than WoW. (that again is just a personal experience... which is why you take the free trial and decide for yourself...)
*disclaimer*
the things *I* posted are from my point of view or personal experience. Which doesn't always mesh with the light some try to shed on subjects. Which does NOT mean they are lying... it just means they have a different point of view.
thx so much for that guys.
fyi all, Ive played the 10 day trial but it doesnt touch the game in reality, and i wont devote too much time to it.
If I could, I'd like to steer the convo to :can you compete decently in pvp w/ non-grinded out gear?
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
You simply should play any game you find fun, it shouldn't be because it has the most players, or is voted the highest on some site, or has mad fanboy overhype, bottom line is what i just said, you should play whatever game you find fun.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Just to post a different view on this paticular example..
PvP in DAoC consists of... farming other players for realm points which you use to buy "realm abilities" so that you have more Iwin buttons to press per fight. Which depending on your current realm level can take a long while...
Or dealing with your realm suddenly having 10x its normal population due to "relic hoppers"...
Just not exactly a good example imho. If a paticular person liked DAoC better than WoW (I dislike both equally as daoc turned into a joke imho) that's their personal point of view. There is nothing in DAoC that makes it objectively better than any other game... subjectively perhaps.. Altho before the idiots made "new frontiers" that game was pretty good.
Also if you were in much of any active guild that wanted to run guild groups.. you were expected to play certain days/nights for x amount of hours.
That's the thing.. if you are interested in a game... try it YOURself! Other people are just going to give you their point of view.. which may not be the same as yours... or even close.
You'll hear a lot about the community.. I'll guess that depends on the server. In my personal experience the community *I* (that's me personally) met in lotro or eq2.. were far worse than WoW. (that again is just a personal experience... which is why you take the free trial and decide for yourself...)
*disclaimer*
the things *I* posted are from my point of view or personal experience. Which doesn't always mesh with the light some try to shed on subjects. Which does NOT mean they are lying... it just means they have a different point of view.
i was refering to pre atlantis, when i played.. back then having control of the abyses meant something. Dont know how it turned now ( although i heard it became a joke like you said). But i bac when i played it was stil the best pvp fun i had.
I also should have be more specific as i was thinking about frontier lands and not the low/mid lvl BGs wher you defenitly pretty much only farmed so you could get high lvl eazyer though the pvp skills. But even then it was still more fun than WOW BGs IMO (exept for alterac WHEN yuo could enter as a clan raid).
BUt like you said, its all about different point of views
I like the leveling times people are posting and mentioning casual in the same sentence.
I went from beta into release and it too me 10 months to get to level 60. That is casual. I did a lot of RP, crafting, open PvP in the towns like Southshore, and I am not a grinder most of the time. (I liked the open PvP style MUCH better than the battlegrounds and arenas, but that is me I guess) So, depending on your play style it could take a while to get through the levels, but my point is why care? Just enjoy the ride along the way.
AKA - Bruxail
I agree completely, no wonder WoW now has over 9 million active subscribing accounts. That sure is less than the 5 million months ago.
You're basically asking if a person who does not devote any time to get gear to PvP will stand a chance against people that actually try. You will stand a chance if you at least try a little to get gear. Don't expect people to die at your feet if you don't "grind out" gear.
I agree completely, no wonder WoW now has over 9 million active subscribing accounts. That sure is less than the 5 million months ago.
You're basically asking if a person who does not devote any time to get gear to PvP will stand a chance against people that actually try. You will stand a chance if you at least try a little to get gear. Don't expect people to die at your feet if you don't "grind out" gear.
And there is the biggest problem with PVP in WoW. For some reason repetitive honor, faction or raid grinding means you should be better in PVP. Blizzard has duped people into believing this is a good thing.To answer your question MMORPDEATH. NO if you do not grind out good gear you will be totally outmatched in PVP. Expect to lose for weeks to months (depending on how much you play) until you have earned enough points to buy all the PVP gear you will need. Or expect to same months raiding to get all the gear you need.
A level 70 wearing full tier 6 will wipe the floor with a level 70 wearing uncommon and rare drops. Same for the Arena gear stuff they will wipe an average player. World of Warcraft is one of the biggest advocates of have and have nots in the MMO world. They really got their inspirition down from the first EQ game.
(I have seen people who were better PVPers, knew there class better, etc get wiped by an average player if the average player had better gear)
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
So you agree with me then.
There aren't any, give it a shot. You've already overcome what seems to be one of your main problems with the game, it's cartoony graphics. And I'd be surprised if once you start playing you don't totally forget about the graphics and may even find yourself getting lost in the atmosphere. Take the 10 day free trial. If you don't like it after 10 days, you probably never will.And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
So you agree with me then.
Yes and no, remove the term "well" from the OPs post and from your statement then yes I will agree
.
And to answer your question, for the most part, no you don't have to raid or craft at all to compete well in PvP. PvP gear however will make you a more competitive PvP'er, but that will come about naturally as you PvP. Just don't expect to own anyone right off the bat. You'll have to take some lumps in the PvP world before you can dish them out, but anyone can do it.
Anyone can drive a car too, but the guy with the Lamborghini is gonna smoke the guy with the Kia Rio even if the Rio is driven by Mario Andretti.
To compete "well" in pvp you need gear, and if you plan on doing lower bg pvp you will need to be twinked somewhat to compete "well".
To just compete.. you need a character, some hands, a keyboard, and a mouse.
So you agree with me then.
Yes and no, remove the term "well" from the OPs post and from your statement then yes I will agree
.
Reread my post and you'll notice I said to compete "well" you do not have to raid or craft. I alluded to the fact to be competitive you will need PvP gear, so basically I'm saying to PvP "well" you will indeed need PvP gear. But you can get that gear by simply doing nothing but playing PvP. You will of course have to expect to take a bit of a beating until you get some decent gear. Is this not what you are saying?
Oh no you are right mate I read the post wrong. My apologies.
Edit:: Just to point out though, my statements weren't incorrect and per what the OP is asking you will need some form or method of grinding or association with a group that has access to great gear w/enchantments (for twink bgs) to compete "well" imo. You don't have to raid or craft, but you need access to gear and enchantments. (I suppose you could buy gold)
I'm just assuming the OP is asking "Will I need to actually work for something first before I can play PvP (well) as opposed to just going into PvP and relying on skill to dictate in competing (well) and the answer is yes."
Well Said Pappy,
Wow looks like warcraft, as it should .
The graphics are fine with me I'm more interested in the fun factor and Wow is fun with a good guild, I have many old friends I play with that have hung with me for 25+ years and dozens of MMO's.
When it's not fun any longer we move on, I may go back to AO for awhile off and on as I liked that game alot. But the guild play there just didn't hold a candle to WOW's and if its not fun with a guild its to tough to play solo.
Pvp in wow is the way it should be, a choice. I dont like games that are full pvp, and getting gear in pvp in wow is not that difficult.
Several of my friends have made High Warlord on our server and have Sick Gear for it, but it takes patience and time if you want to top out in PVP.
In 25+ years I've learned one thing about MMO's! None will ever have every aspect I would want in a game and I'm sure that goes for many other Xtream Gamer's like Me.
Maybe AOC will please me but I doubt it hahaha!
Warasatsum
- Instance (all about getting gear/Weapons/items - Loot grind)
- Battlegrounds (all about getting honnor to buy armor/weapons/items - honnor grind)
- Reputation (grind grind grind)
- Crafting could be nice, if it whas a little more into it, and not every good item you can make needed loot from an instance.
sad story is, when you have got the items you have used so long time to get, you most likely gonna leave the game.. ( i did)
i had a raid paladin that i used lots of time getting full judgement armor for (best looking armor in the game imo), and how good are those items now?
TBC killed wow, and all armors in wow looks like starship troopers armor these days..
sorry for being negative though!
There really is no reason not to give wow a try. Really, no reason at all. I have found most of the people who trash the game are those that 1) Have played to level 70 and couldn't be bothered to spend the time grinding the higher level gear, 2) Ground out the necessary gear at 60 only to have it nerfed by the level spike to 70, or 3) Simply played the game to a point where they became tired of it.
The point is, player fatigue happens in all MMO's. Name your game, insert mmo name here, add two years of play, and guess what? Fatigue...I have seen the same reason for disliking a game over and over. Personally it happened to me with SWG, which was the game I spent the most time playing. Despite the changes, which probably wouldn't have mattered in the long run, I simply tired of seeing the same landscapes, mobs, even people sometimes. It happens in all games. I was even one of the few happy to see the CU simply because it might add something new to do (sorry not so much NGE, but I did keep playing for a bit).
To a point, I think fatigue is the main reason we see so many "I hate wow" posts. There have been so many more people playing wow than any other game, that we see them posting the same tripe you will see about every other game out there that is 2+ years old. CoH has them, EvE has them, EQ1+2 has them. It's the way these things work. People send an ungodly amount of time playing these games, and it is fun! The one thing they don't bother addressing is that the game (most of them) really is not that different from when they started, yet that one "little" change was enough to send them over the edge (this part is not related to swg). The point is, that one little change was really, honestly, little. You should thank your brain for kicking you to do something else from time to time, even if it means hating that one thing you thought you would always enjoy.
WoW really is not a bad game, better, and with 3x the content of 95% of the hack games this site lists. Should you give it a try, if you are so intrigued, well yes!? Will you still be there 4 years from now? For your own sanity, I hope not...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
Yes, you're absolutely correct. You cannot expect to simply walk into the battlegrounds and be competitive from the start. You'll get out of it what you put into it. The more you put into it, the more you will get out of it, both gear wise and skill wise. And when I say skill wise, I believe it takes skill to PvP well. Having the best gear in the world will not help you if you don't know not only the strengths and weaknesses of your class/character, but also the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents class and being able to taken advantage of those strengths and weaknesses. So neither skill nor gear alone will make you the best. A combination of the 2 is required.
Yes, you're absolutely correct. You cannot expect to simply walk into the battlegrounds and be competitive from the start. You'll get out of it what you put into it. The more you put into it, the more you will get out of it, both gear wise and skill wise. And when I say skill wise, I believe it takes skill to PvP well. Having the best gear in the world will not help you if you don't know not only the strengths and weaknesses of your class/character, but also the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents class and being able to taken advantage of those strengths and weaknesses. So neither skill nor gear alone will make you the best. A combination of the 2 is required.
Indeed the combination of the 2 is required imo as well, especially if you want to be the best, but just for the record I never said that skill isn't required to compete well. I was just pointing out that gear vs skill, the former is more important than the latter in World of Warcraft.
If you get two people that have T6 or A2 (insert class) that are the same build, the person with the greater skill ( strategy, reflexes, coordination, etc.) will win.
But if you get two people and one has a T6 or A2 and the other is in greens or blues. What do you think are his chances? Even if he has the greater skill?
That's just what I think.
If you mean by decently, can I get in and compete against the very best of the best. The answer is no, not without similar gear. However if you mean can I expect to do reasonably well against others who are not the best of the best, just your average gamer. The answer is maybe depending on what you consider non-grinded out gear.
If you consider non-grinded out gear stuff you could pick up just doing some quests. The answer is no. You'll need better gear than that. However one of the way you can get decent PvP gear is thru PvP. As you play you'll pick up honor and marks from playing in battlegrounds. You can then turn in those honor points and marks for PvP gear. The more points and marks you have, the better the gear you can get. So obviously it will require a bit of time. If you consider that "grinding", then the answer to your question is no. But since you're interested in PvP, you're going to want to play some PvP. And by doing that, you'll get some decent gear. It won't be the best of the best gear, because to do that you'll have to do additional things like get enchants and such which will require some additional time and cash.
So you see, it's not an easy question to answer. There's a lot of factors that play into it. The one thing that is absolutely certain is that you can't just walk into the battlegrounds with crap gear and own just because you have leet skills. Not going to happen.