class action lawsuit.... whos in?

atziluth · August 2007

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

First off, "I" am not calling for legal action. If you read many of the posts in this thread, people like me and Fikus are sympathetic, but not yelling "lawsuit." So in saying you'd like to ban the lot of "us" from video games in the future, I think you could be overgeneralizing.
I'll admit the term "lawsuit" can be threatening, but usually only to people that work for the company under scrutiny. You seem to find this discussion threatening, and I'm not sure why.
I am sorry if I lumped you in with the others crying lawsuit, my post was a generalization of most of the people in this thread. What I specifically said was if you (people on here in general) brought this case to court your names would be made public (case is public record unless you settle with a non-disclosure clause). If your names were made public gaming companies could then refuse you (again general term not you specifically) service because you are a liability. Just like if you take a series of doctors to court you better believe you would have a hard time finding a general practitioner that would take you as a patient. Again just to be clear I am not specifying you ArcAngel3, but anyone that would be part of the lawsuit.
As to feeling threatened, no not personally. I do take any statements about legal action seriously and would never frivolously throw it out because I am emotionally upset. That same maturity cannot be said for many others in this thread. You do not bring guns to a knife fight, everyone ends up shot. Again if this was a discussion about how much SOE screwed the pooch with SWG I would be right there with you... saying it warrants legal action is a serious claim and more people should treat it as such.
You also seem to try to assume a position of authority over other people who post here, telling them what they can and cannot post. For example you say this is not the place to talk about consumer rights. Why not? If you look at the description of this forum, the discussion seems to go along with it perfectly. How do people feel about the changes to SWG? They feel that their consumer rights were violated, and this thread focuses on one possible way to respond to that. If you want to add to the discussion by saying you don't think legal action is productive, well I'd very much like to hear your point of view. Trying to control other people and assume a position of authority that you don't really have isn't adding to the discussion in my view, it's trying to silence it, apparently because you feel somehow threatened by it. I appreciate some of the counter arguments in this thread, but not attempts to shut people down.
I assume no authority on these boards. I am not a moderator and not the owner of the site. I have no more right to post then anyone else here. I can however suggest that legal complaints are pointless on a gaming site. Can you really tell me that discussing legal precedent and opinions is appropriate on these boards?
Futher, I, like many others, felt frustrated when things were messed up with SWG. I'll also admit to feeling saddened by losing things I had worked for over time, and losing contact with about 20 people that I regularly associated with in that virtual environment. Some people like to kick back and have a couple drinks with their buddies at the end of the week. Instead of doing that, I liked to kick back and have some online mayhem with my buddies at the end of the week. (Part of the reason I did this, is that I was recovering from surgery and lost my mobility for a number of months.) Was I frustrated and disappointed when this recreational/social time was messed up? Yes I was. Did I need group therapy to get over that? No I didn't. Talking about it on this forum with my online buds helped me put things into perspective. Again, incidently, I think that's one of the intentions of this forum. Why are you suggesting that people needed group therapy and aren't fit to play online games? Are you putting people down for making proper use of this forum?
I was pointing out that if people are still so upset about a game years after the events in question... to the point they still are seeking legal avenues probably have an unhealthy obsession with the game. Again I agree what SOE did was bad, but not illegal. If you want to rehash old times with friends that is healthy... if people are still emotionally distraught enough to claim damages then they DO need therapy. Would you say someone who stopped drinking 2 years ago still constantly craving and complaining about alcohol does not need to go to AA? There is a line between healthy discussion and unhealthy obsession. A rational person would see that at least some of these posters have taken it past the healthy line. Frankly I see many people on these boards taking games to unhealthy levels. Are you saying enabling these people that have obvious psychological issues as appropriate use of these forums?

Shayde · August 2007

Originally posted by atziluth Again I agree what SOE did was bad, but not illegal.

Illegal and legally actionable are two different things. You don't have to have been found guilty of breaking any laws to get sued.

Just look at OJ.

iwantmyswg · August 2007

i hope u guys do get a lawsuit going about swg. people need to know what is really going on and what soe has done to us as a whole. and to you people saying we should get over it we will never get over it and we will be here untill soe see's that this nge system will not & cannot work.

we have told them time and time again roll the game back or do a classic server & i feel someone should have gone to fanfest and told them that. i will be going next year with the idea of getting a protest going right then and there. still a lawsuit is a good idea.

Moirae · August 2007

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

i hope u guys do get a lawsuit going about swg. people need to know what is really going on and what soe has done to us as a whole. and to you people saying we should get over it we will never get over it and we will be here untill soe see's that this nge system will not & cannot work.
we have told them time and time again roll the game back or do a classic server & i feel someone should have gone to fanfest and told them that. i will be going next year with the idea of getting a protest going right then and there. still a lawsuit is a good idea.

What is really getting on is that its a game and you need to get over it. Its no more an insult to you than a sucky movie is to anyone else.

iwantmyswg · August 2007

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

i hope u guys do get a lawsuit going about swg. people need to know what is really going on and what soe has done to us as a whole. and to you people saying we should get over it we will never get over it and we will be here untill soe see's that this nge system will not & cannot work.
we have told them time and time again roll the game back or do a classic server & i feel someone should have gone to fanfest and told them that. i will be going next year with the idea of getting a protest going right then and there. still a lawsuit is a good idea.

What is really getting on is that its a game and you need to get over it. Its no more an insult to you than a sucky movie is to anyone else.

we are in the right here let me ask you something if u went to see lord of the rings and an hour into it they change it from lord of the rings to another movie then after another 15 mins it changes to cool as ice starting vanilla ice would u get up and leave & ask for ur money back? that's what they did with swg we had a hit system that everybody loved and it was replaced with a system a few people liked to a system that had to be coded by vanilla ice.

soe owes us they owe us our money back more so those who spent months & years working on jedi. they owe us for lieing about the cu & they owe us for all the time we wasted playing swg. now soe is sending out their bribed players & lies to tell people that swg is getting better & is just fine.

if it so great they why don't they show us the number of players playing. if this dev team is so good why haven't they come out with any info on chapter 7? i bet they made up everything at fanfest a day before & once again lied to the player base bout what is really going on. they talk about how they want to do stuff we tell them, then why is it when 100% of the playerbase has said bring back pre-cu they ingore us & do systems we dont want. we where happy without boss mobs, we had one of the best content systems in the world with the village. now what are we getting 2 boss mobs & an eq2 system.

we got ripped off & we want our game back.

atziluth · August 2007

Originally posted by Shayde

So are you really saying that idle discussion about a lawsuit is crossing the line?
And you want to ban those talking about from any future game? So the EULA doesn't take away enough rights, you feel blackballing is in order?
Really? Really Really?

If you feel that extortion is in order then yes I do feel blackballing those that cripple this industry is fair.

This goes so far beyond a single lawsuit... this would set precedence for several key issues still being fought out in the legal system today. In order to proved damages you would have to prove RMV for virtual items and services... once they have RMV expect to be taxed. O have already posted a link in this thread where the IRS is actively trying to tax all items acquired in virtual worlds.

So yes... really! really! really! Perhaps the best thing for this thread is for me to post some gamers addiction help group links.

iwantmyswg · August 2007

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

i hope u guys do get a lawsuit going about swg. people need to know what is really going on and what soe has done to us as a whole. and to you people saying we should get over it we will never get over it and we will be here untill soe see's that this nge system will not & cannot work.
we have told them time and time again roll the game back or do a classic server & i feel someone should have gone to fanfest and told them that. i will be going next year with the idea of getting a protest going right then and there. still a lawsuit is a good idea.

What is really getting on is that its a game and you need to get over it. Its no more an insult to you than a sucky movie is to anyone else.

we are in the right here let me ask you something if u went to see lord of the rings and an hour into it they change it from lord of the rings to another movie then after another 15 mins it changes to cool as ice starting vanilla ice would u get up and leave & ask for ur money back? that's what they did with swg we had a hit system that everybody loved and it was replaced with a system a few people liked to a system that had to be coded by vanilla ice.

soe owes us they owe us our money back more so those who spent months & years working on jedi. they owe us for lieing about the cu & they owe us for all the time we wasted playing swg. now soe is sending out their bribed players & lies to tell people that swg is getting better & is just fine.

if it so great they why don't they show us the number of players playing. if this dev team is so good why haven't they come out with any info on chapter 7? i bet they made up everything at fanfest a day before & once again lied to the player base bout what is really going on. they talk about how they want to do stuff we tell them, then why is it when 100% of the playerbase has said bring back pre-cu they ingore us & do systems we dont want. we where happy without boss mobs, we had one of the best content systems in the world with the village. now what are we getting 2 boss mobs & an eq2 system.

we got ripped off & we want our game back.

Thank you for proving my point about game addiction in this thread... Your a classic case if there ever was one.

I think u know that we are winning this war with soe. the most we post the more players & gamers see the truth. the truth is swg about to die cuz of the nge no new players are coming in & the vets soe is trying to win back still think the game is a joke. u nge fanboi's are on the run u know that we will get pre-cu swg back even if it is an emu server.

ur a classic case of someone that believes anything soe tells them to think. we have told u the truth for swg to be a good game again tthe pre-cu must come back. soe needs to say sorry and rehigher raph koster to get swg back to the way it should be. namely the greatest mmo that would had been better if left alone.

moria1275 · August 2007

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

i hope u guys do get a lawsuit going about swg. people need to know what is really going on and what soe has done to us as a whole. and to you people saying we should get over it we will never get over it and we will be here untill soe see's that this nge system will not & cannot work.
we have told them time and time again roll the game back or do a classic server & i feel someone should have gone to fanfest and told them that. i will be going next year with the idea of getting a protest going right then and there. still a lawsuit is a good idea.

What is really getting on is that its a game and you need to get over it. Its no more an insult to you than a sucky movie is to anyone else.

we are in the right here let me ask you something if u went to see lord of the rings and an hour into it they change it from lord of the rings to another movie then after another 15 mins it changes to cool as ice starting vanilla ice would u get up and leave & ask for ur money back? that's what they did with swg we had a hit system that everybody loved and it was replaced with a system a few people liked to a system that had to be coded by vanilla ice.

soe owes us they owe us our money back more so those who spent months & years working on jedi. they owe us for lieing about the cu & they owe us for all the time we wasted playing swg. now soe is sending out their bribed players & lies to tell people that swg is getting better & is just fine.

if it so great they why don't they show us the number of players playing. if this dev team is so good why haven't they come out with any info on chapter 7? i bet they made up everything at fanfest a day before & once again lied to the player base bout what is really going on. they talk about how they want to do stuff we tell them, then why is it when 100% of the playerbase has said bring back pre-cu they ingore us & do systems we dont want. we where happy without boss mobs, we had one of the best content systems in the world with the village. now what are we getting 2 boss mobs & an eq2 system.

we got ripped off & we want our game back.

Thank you for proving my point about game addiction in this thread... Your a classic case if there ever was one.

IF you think this thread this dumb and people posting in this thread are childish then why do you keep posting in this thread.If all you can think of Mmmorpg as just games then please quit playing MMORPG and stop posting in this thread.

And if this is more about a game is this about teh fact that SOE lied to us and ripped

FikusOfAhazi · August 2007

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Shayde

So are you really saying that idle discussion about a lawsuit is crossing the line?
And you want to ban those talking about from any future game? So the EULA doesn't take away enough rights, you feel blackballing is in order?
Really? Really Really?

If you feel that extortion is in order then yes I do feel blackballing those that cripple this industry is fair.

This goes so far beyond a single lawsuit... this would set precedence for several key issues still being fought out in the legal system today. In order to proved damages you would have to prove RMV for virtual items and services... once they have RMV expect to be taxed. O have already posted a link in this thread where the IRS is actively trying to tax all items acquired in virtual worlds.

So yes... really! really! really! Perhaps the best thing for this thread is for me to post some gamers addiction help group links.

Like I said I dont want or even think SOE should be sued. I prolly wouldnt take any part in it even if by some chance someone did. I am just trying to educate myself I find it a very interesting conversation.

But, where has anyone threatened SOE/LA with a lawsuit if they dont return the game? Im not as educated in these things as you so if I missed it could you point it out for me? (edit: NM i see what you were saying now in an earlier post clarifing what you meant by extortion)

I agree with you about a lawsuit may cause IRS involvement if RMV for virtual goods and items were set. That would be something that would need to be thought about if someone was going to. I asked earlier, but no one answered, so perhaps you can. How does EQ2 do it without giving RMV to items? I'm just curious..I dont understand most of this as you can see and you seem to have a pretty solid idea of how it works. Thanks.

atziluth · August 2007

Originally posted by moria1275

IF you think this thread this dumb and people posting in this thread are childish then why do you keep posting in this thread.If all you can think of Mmmorpg as just games then please quit playing MMORPG and stop posting in this thread.

And if this is more about a game is this about teh fact that SOE lied to us and ripped

If no one else shows rational judgment in this thread why should you expect more from me?

Seriously though... I posted because this whole thread is idiotic. Are you seriously saying MMOs are more then games? Sorry hard to understand what you actually mean, your sentence structure is difficult to follow. Not trying to knock you typing, just saying it is hard to answer any of your questions unless you use proper sentence structure.

atziluth · August 2007

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

Like I said I dont want or even think SOE should be sued. I prolly wouldnt take any part in it even if by some chance someone did. I am just trying to educate myself I find it a very interesting conversation.
First thanks for responding rationally and asking questions. I will do my best to answer them as best I can though I will state right now I am not a lawyer.
But, where has anyone threatened SOE/LA with a lawsuit if they dont return the game? Im not as educated in these things as you so if I missed it could you point it out for me? (edit: NM i see what you were saying now in an earlier post clarifing what you meant by extortion)
If you read the first several pages there are several people talking about a class action lawsuit. Some even going so far as to claim they have spoken to a "buddy" lawyer. It is pretty well documented in this thread some people would love to sue SOE.
I agree with you about a lawsuit may cause IRS involvement if RMV for virtual goods and items were set. That would be something that would need to be thought about if someone was going to. I asked earlier, but no one answered, so perhaps you can. How does EQ2 do it without giving RMV to items? I'm just curious..I dont understand most of this as you can see and you seem to have a pretty solid idea of how it works. Thanks.

This is a very tricky question and EQII is getting around it in a very risky way... The issue here is we are dealing with things that have no precedence in court. Precedence is pretty much establishing rulings based on past decisions. For example Roe vs. Wade sets precedence on abortion so that unless current law is changed it will be very difficult to overturn that past ruling. The initial ruling sets guide lines for future cases basically. Right now there is no precedence on items having RMV since every case that would bring that very question up has been settled thus preventing a ruling and a precedent. EQII is putting RMV on items which means that if the IRS does proceed chances are the first ruling would be in favor of RMV on virtual items and set a precedence for all future rulings. This would be disastrous to this genre as everything in game could be taxed which would be passed onto the consumer either through higher subscriptions or by actually having to claim virtual income on your taxes. It is extremely messy right now and SOE is not helping the matter. If the IRS does win and gets to tax the industry it very well could end MMOs, the money and time invested in making them would no longer be profitable. I hope that clears some things up. If you read through some of my previous posts I have a link to an article about what the IRS is trying to do. Right now there is some breathing room because the IRS has no legislation to directly confront this issue and there is no precedence to legally challenge it in court.

FikusOfAhazi · August 2007

thank you

pirrg · August 2007

oh dear.. comedy goldmine material right here.

thanks for the laugh guys.

DownMonkey · August 2007

Originally posted by iwantmyswg ...(SWG was) namely the greatest mmo that would had been better if left alone.

OKAY, SWG was a mess, a big fat mess. It needed fixing and SOE tried to do that, they screwed up but they at least tried, they didn't do it to kill the game. What half of you whining SOE haters seem to forget or ignore was SWG was a mess and broken, it was losing players and was well known as a bug ridden mess.

GET over it, SWG was already dying and SOE tried to fix it. It was NOT this amazing game that you all keep making out it was.

Reklaw · August 2007

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

i hope u guys do get a lawsuit going about swg. people need to know what is really going on and what soe has done to us as a whole. and to you people saying we should get over it we will never get over it and we will be here untill soe see's that this nge system will not & cannot work.
we have told them time and time again roll the game back or do a classic server & i feel someone should have gone to fanfest and told them that. i will be going next year with the idea of getting a protest going right then and there. still a lawsuit is a good idea.

What is really getting on is that its a game and you need to get over it. Its no more an insult to you than a sucky movie is to anyone else.

we are in the right here let me ask you something if u went to see lord of the rings and an hour into it they change it from lord of the rings to another movie then after another 15 mins it changes to cool as ice starting vanilla ice would u get up and leave & ask for ur money back? that's what they did with swg we had a hit system that everybody loved and it was replaced with a system a few people liked to a system that had to be coded by vanilla ice. Oh lol what a comparison, no wonder you have such a distrorted view on SWG

soe owes us they owe us our money back more so those who spent months & years working on jedi. they owe us for lieing about the cu & they owe us for all the time we wasted playing swg. now soe is sending out their bribed players & lies to tell people that swg is getting better & is just fine. Hahahaha the only one that owes you is yourself, get mature and take some responsibility for your own actions...pleaseeeeeee! I mean look at the way you say "SOE is sending out their bribed players" hahaha sad really it is very sad, sorry ...

if it so great Here another lie, you people keep bringin up that those who enjoy the game think the game is great,, and sure it happens and people do say this, but a person must be a very little child if one can not accept opinions, as that is what they are, you make it sound like if someone tells the game is great that this must be a fact for everyone LOL.

they why don't they show us the number of players playing. SOE never showed numbers and while we ad it if you had the greatest IP ever and your game doesn't even go aswell as like that silly big game called WOw is doing trust me you wil not and i do not care what you wil say but you wil not show subnumbers unless they outdo WOW's and regardless even if they speak about subnumbers most of the people on this side are so blinded with their own pitty they still not believe it, so regardless if or if not they post it would not matter to thse blinded type of wanna-be gamers. if this dev team is so good why haven't they come out with any info on chapter 7? Here again you are being VERY misleading as there is enough info on hte net about chap. 7 i bet they made up everything at fanfest a day before & once again lied to the player base bout what is really going on. So far we can all agree that people like you seem to have no shame in telling lies and mislead people so i really wonder how you even can consider them lyers when we all know and see for a fact who is misleading and who is lieing here. they talk about how they want to do stuff we tell them, Trust me you have absolute no weight in telling them what to do as your credibiltiy is far below avarage with all this lieing.then why is it when 100% of the playerbase has said bring back pre-cu they ingore us & do systems we dont want. Here again another BIG LIE, where do you get your numbers i mean you speak about 100% of the playerbase, hahaha, sorry but would you please stop misleading people on forums, not even SOE or SWG comes close to how misl;eading your post is. we where happy without boss mobs, we had one of the best content systems in the world with the village. now what are we getting 2 boss mobs & an eq2 system.

we got ripped off & we want our game back. Take responsibility for your own actions and please stop the lies.

iwantmyswg · August 2007

Originally posted by DownMonkey

Originally posted by iwantmyswg ...(SWG was) namely the greatest mmo that would had been better if left alone.

OKAY, SWG was a mess, a big fat mess. It needed fixing and SOE tried to do that, they screwed up but they at least tried, they didn't do it to kill the game. What half of you whining SOE haters seem to forget or ignore was SWG was a mess and broken, it was losing players and was well known as a bug ridden mess.

GET over it, SWG was already dying and SOE tried to fix it. It was NOT this amazing game that you all keep making out it was.

the pre-cu system is one of the best systems ever made. almost every review i have seen of the pre-cu system has been 8 out of 10, i think the highest the nge has gotten so far is maybe a 4 out of 10. did people leave swg, yeah they did to see what wow was like however they would have come back. many of them did but then saw what the cu was like and left again. no one liked that system infact all of us begged soe to roll the game back to the pre-cu system in order to save it.

did they? no they made the nge they had been working on it for almost a year at that point. what did we get for our support of the game? banned from the forums for speaking out and telling the truth and told that the nge is here to stay. i feel soe wanted to kill swg as it was taking money away from eq & eq2. that is where the money was at in soe not with swg pre-cu that with bugs being fixed would have gotten the million players swg should have had.

we where lied to from the start about the nge. we where lied too about obi-wan as soe didn't put items into it that they said they would. we where still lied too about the state of the game. but if we asked for the truth we got banned from the forums any in game protest had all the players banned.

i love pre-cu swg it was the greatest system ever & ahead of its time with everything in it. if soe would bring it back u would see wow start to steal ideas from swg.

& yes a lawsuit needs to happen soe wont hear us on any forums or their little fanfair. they will hear us in court & see that the pre-cu is the system that should come back.

pre-cu comes back i know 300k players will resub that night.

DownMonkey · August 2007

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

Originally posted by DownMonkey

Originally posted by iwantmyswg ...(SWG was) namely the greatest mmo that would had been better if left alone.