Like I said, who cares? It's the same ol' same ol' BS that no one is buyin.
And like I said, obviously YOU care, because now you have posted twice here So as the original poster have you nothing to discuss or care of your own post?
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Like I said, who cares? It's the same ol' same ol' BS that no one is buyin.
And like I said, obviously YOU care, because now you have posted twice here So as the original poster have you nothing to discuss or care of your own post?
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Interesting.
Indeed. Some of the most interesting ones in this thread.
Like I said, who cares? It's the same ol' same ol' BS that no one is buyin.
And like I said, obviously YOU care, because now you have posted twice here So as the original poster have you nothing to discuss or care of your own post?
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Interesting.
Indeed. Some of the most interesting ones in this thread.
Like I said, who cares? It's the same ol' same ol' BS that no one is buyin.
And like I said, obviously YOU care, because now you have posted twice here So as the original poster have you nothing to discuss or care of your own post?
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Interesting.
Indeed. Some of the most interesting ones in this thread.
I love you too man. /hug
Everything I do here is an act of love from the purest of intentions. The hatred that abounds saddens me greatly.
Lol @ report. They are obviously paying the reporter something. IF I was interviewing him, he probably not answer or make a bunch of excuses. lol.... what a tool mr smed is... he still thinks we all are dumb. Quite delusional I must say.
Well obviously there are some who believe him *cough* *cough*... Anyone who willingly pays montly to play SWG: NGE is probably going to believe the lies that fly out of his mouth...
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Ah, in other words, bored are we?
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Ah, in other words, bored are we?
I don't understand the concept of boredom. With all the interesting things going on in the world and the ideas going on in my head, I've never been bored. Just lucky I guess
Obviously -- however it is VERY informative in looking at the spin they are choosing to release. That's why I shared this. Interviews with people like Smed are what SOE/LA wants us to know.
You said it in your own words... This is the "spin" that SOE and LA want us to see.
If you want to pretend the lead in.. information was correct.
The game sold over 1,500,000 boxes and has somewhere over 100,000 subs. So that's like a 6 percent account retention?
While I'd agree that when Beast Master came into the game.. a good number of people came back.. I would also state that a good number of those left again. Which still left them in more or less the same state they have been in. Some servers have a decent population while most don't. Which is part of why people argue about the game being dead... On some servers it isn't.. so depending on your point of view aka where you play...
I'd say that the "active" servers probably retained more of the people who came back to them. While the servers that had low populations are still hurting.
So in a sense yes they are gaining subs.. but not a percentage that most companies would be happy with.
I never cared about who was responsible for the NGE...
What boggles me is from the business stand point of .. hey lets make a profit.. why in the hell is there no classic server.
If they really can't do it... because of client variation then there is more wrong with SOE than I would believe possible. Mythic does it with DAoC.. their classic servers (which are clustered now) have the highest population by far of any in the game.
Its not like SOE was the only company to piss off or lose customers... what I want to see answered in an article.. is why they aren't doing anything to really try and regain some and make more profit.. when they keep claiming to be in it "for the long haul".
Its not about roll back or what was better. Its about as a company... your goal is to make profit. I think most people would admit that a classic server would be full... which equates to profit...
I mean just look at it from the perspective of if this was your company and you wanted to make all the money you could. Rather than a player perspective trying to argue on a forum. Then try to figure out why they won't really answer the question... or go after the profit that is waiting to happen...
While claiming to be in it .. "for the long haul".
That's what bothers me everytime I see an interview with Smed.
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Tbh if this is the vocal minority then SWG must have atleast 10 million subscribers.
Lol, now that is someone using facts and not bullshit.
See, I love things like that... You can look on the boards and see how many are on the forums. I think it is a safe bet to say that 25% of the playerbase uses the forums.
With that said... I could see, on a good day, with the station passes being as many as that would add up to be. 60k yeah... maybe... but not 100k I just find that hard to bite.
Well, I mean gosh think about this: SINCE WHEN HAS SOE OR THE SWG STAFF BEEN HONEST ABOUT THINGS??? Don't say since (AS OF NOW) because that will just dig a hole with the next comment.
I mean really, how many times have the lied, misslead, told us bullshit and or pretty much failed at making good on things?
Yeah.... I rest my case on the "honesty" part.
_________________________________________________________ lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
Obviously -- however it is VERY informative in looking at the spin they are choosing to release. That's why I shared this. Interviews with people like Smed are what SOE/LA wants us to know.
You said it in your own words... This is the "spin" that SOE and LA want us to see.
If you want to pretend the lead in.. information was correct.
The game sold over 1,500,000 boxes and has somewhere over 100,000 subs. So that's like a 6 percent account retention?
While I'd agree that when Beast Master came into the game.. a good number of people came back.. I would also state that a good number of those left again. Which still left them in more or less the same state they have been in. Some servers have a decent population while most don't. Which is part of why people argue about the game being dead... On some servers it isn't.. so depending on your point of view aka where you play...
I'd say that the "active" servers probably retained more of the people who came back to them. While the servers that had low populations are still hurting.
So in a sense yes they are gaining subs.. but not a percentage that most companies would be happy with.
I never cared about who was responsible for the NGE...
What boggles me is from the business stand point of .. hey lets make a profit.. why in the hell is there no classic server.
If they really can't do it... because of client variation then there is more wrong with SOE than I would believe possible. Mythic does it with DAoC.. their classic servers (which are clustered now) have the highest population by far of any in the game.
Its not like SOE was the only company to piss off or lose customers... what I want to see answered in an article.. is why they aren't doing anything to really try and regain some and make more profit.. when they keep claiming to be in it "for the long haul".
Its not about roll back or what was better. Its about as a company... your goal is to make profit. I think most people would admit that a classic server would be full... which equates to profit...
I mean just look at it from the perspective of if this was your company and you wanted to make all the money you could. Rather than a player perspective trying to argue on a forum. Then try to figure out why they won't really answer the question... or go after the profit that is waiting to happen...
While claiming to be in it .. "for the long haul".
That's what bothers me everytime I see an interview with Smed.
Severs were never full, the game was supposed to achieve one million subs -- I think it never made even close to its break-even point.
What makes you think that pre-CU ever made a profit? I loved that game more than any other, but as I see it, it was incredibly expensive to run, and the game never made enough subs to make that game profitable.
That, if true, is why we shall sadly never see pre-CU again.
Severs were never full, the game was supposed to achieve one million subs -- I think it never made even close to its break-even point. What makes you think that pre-CU ever made a profit? I loved that game more than any other, but as I see it, it was incredibly expensive to run, and the game never made enough subs to make that game profitable. That, if true, is why we shall sadly never see pre-CU again.
I think Raph Koster has said the game was profitable pre-CU, it just never reached the numbers that were expected (I think in the comment section of either his blog or the Broken Toys blog). the main problem was subscriber retention, due to lack of directed content (according to the main reason quitting players picked on the exit survey. Oddly enough, the reaction by the developers was to nerf and tweak the professions and focus development time on making Jedi easier for people to attain.
The current game is absolutely barren compared to pre-CU or even the CU. Even the "Heavy" population servers are much less populated than they once were. There was a point that SOE offered free character transfers from Bria to any other server due to the number of people playing on Bria causing the server to crash. They even upgraded Bria's hardware at one point in an attempt to handle the server load. They might have to do something similar, after they merge the servers at the end of this year, only because the current game system causes much more lag with many times fewer people around.
Severs were never full, the game was supposed to achieve one million subs -- I think it never made even close to its break-even point. What makes you think that pre-CU ever made a profit? I loved that game more than any other, but as I see it, it was incredibly expensive to run, and the game never made enough subs to make that game profitable. That, if true, is why we shall sadly never see pre-CU again.
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
For how long during pre-CU was pre-CU profitable? Every quarter? No one has said that, and I tend to doubt it. How big was the margin? Large enough to sustain? I doubt that as well. If it was just barely profitable at 350K subs, which we will assume was the peak, then it certainly wasn't profitable at 250K subs, or 200K subs, which is what it seems to have had just pre-CU.
Raph has also said that the game currently is doing much better than many of us think. It has also been stated publicly that the pre-CU game was not sustainable, and Smedley, when pressed by certain people we both know, frankly admitted that in the end, cost decided things. That says to me that by the time the NGE decison was made, the game was NOT profitable.
The current game could be barren compared with pre-CU, but if the costs are sufficiently lower, it might have a higher margin of profit than at any time pre-CU. That alone prevents us from having our game back. When we see what a bust the housing demolition was, it is obvious that a very large number of people are paying and not playing, holding out hope for the future.
Now, I agree with you, had they fixed the problems that were broken, and made many other changes during the pre-CU period, the game MIGHT have done better, but that would again involve going back in time, re-doing the history of the game, and sadly, that's not possible.
We all agree that the NGE was a mistake, but the question returns to: leave one failure to return to another failure, one with maybe more customers but certainly higher costs, or move ahead with the current cheaper failure. I too wish they would choose the former, but I don't think that's a realistic choice. I wish and hope it was, but it's not from what I see.
Either way, no one really knows, but we have two choices: either they are intentionally doing what they believe makes them less money, or they are intentionally doing what they think makes them the most money. I am sure if anyone could convince them that classic servers wiuld make more money, they would do it. Either no one can convince them of that, ir it's just not true. OR they WANT to lose money for some odd reason.
I knew this had to be the only choices, which is why I could only see the loss-lead scenario as the reason: use SWG to get people in the door, then shift them as customers into EQ2. I no longer believe that to be the case, but for awhile it was the only one that made sense to me.
Severs were never full, the game was supposed to achieve one million subs -- I think it never made even close to its break-even point. What makes you think that pre-CU ever made a profit? I loved that game more than any other, but as I see it, it was incredibly expensive to run, and the game never made enough subs to make that game profitable. That, if true, is why we shall sadly never see pre-CU again.
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
I completely agree, but I can't take us all back in time. I wish I could for a great many reasons, but my powers and abilities don't include time travel.
Severs were never full, the game was supposed to achieve one million subs -- I think it never made even close to its break-even point. What makes you think that pre-CU ever made a profit? I loved that game more than any other, but as I see it, it was incredibly expensive to run, and the game never made enough subs to make that game profitable. That, if true, is why we shall sadly never see pre-CU again.
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
I completely agree, but I can't take us all back in time. I wish I could for a great many reasons, but my powers and abilities don't include time travel.
They need to rebuild it. Do it right. Having a barren starwars game cost more in reputation than the profit it could bring in in my opinion. The power of time travel is from the dark side of the force.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
For how long during pre-CU was pre-CU profitable? Every quarter? No one has said that, and I tend to doubt it. How big was the margin? Large enough to sustain? I doubt that as well. If it was just barely profitable at 350K subs, which we will assume was the peak, then it certainly wasn't profitable at 250K subs, or 200K subs, which is what it seems to have had just pre-CU. Raph has also said that the game currently is doing much better than many of us think. It has also been stated publicly that the pre-CU game was not sustainable, and Smedley, when pressed by certain people we both know, frankly admitted that in the end, cost decided things. That says to me that by the time the NGE decison was made, the game was NOT profitable.
Only if you believe John Smedley was telling the truth. History tells us that is a very unlikely scenario. If the NGE has made the game more profitable, the folks at SOE wouldn't promise not to do it again every time they discuss the future of any product they are even marginally involved with. They also wouldn't have warned every other developer at last years Game Developer's Conference not to make the same mistake they made (the NGE). The NGE was, and is, a complete and utter failure, which several people currently working at SOE have admitted (Smed has even outright said the NGE itself was a mistake in e-mails). If the game was more profitable now than it was prior to the NGE, it wouldn't be considered a mistake. SOE's insistence on never doing another NGE says to me that the game is worse off than it was prior to the NGE.
For how long during pre-CU was pre-CU profitable? Every quarter? No one has said that, and I tend to doubt it. How big was the margin? Large enough to sustain? I doubt that as well. If it was just barely profitable at 350K subs, which we will assume was the peak, then it certainly wasn't profitable at 250K subs, or 200K subs, which is what it seems to have had just pre-CU. Raph has also said that the game currently is doing much better than many of us think. It has also been stated publicly that the pre-CU game was not sustainable, and Smedley, when pressed by certain people we both know, frankly admitted that in the end, cost decided things. That says to me that by the time the NGE decison was made, the game was NOT profitable.
Only if you believe John Smedley was telling the truth. History tells us that is a very unlikely scenario. If the NGE has made the game more profitable, the folks at SOE wouldn't promise not to do it again every time they discuss the future of any product they are even marginally involved with. They also wouldn't have warned every other developer at last years Game Developer's Conference not to make the same mistake they made (the NGE). The NGE was, and is, a complete and utter failure, which several people currently working at SOE have admitted (Smed has even outright said the NGE itself was a mistake in e-mails). If the game was more profitable now than it was prior to the NGE, it wouldn't be considered a mistake. SOE's insistence on never doing another NGE says to me that the game is worse off than it was prior to the NGE.
If what you say was true, the they would open a classic server. Obviously you are missing a piece here, unless you believe they WANT to lose money.
Severs were never full, the game was supposed to achieve one million subs -- I think it never made even close to its break-even point. What makes you think that pre-CU ever made a profit? I loved that game more than any other, but as I see it, it was incredibly expensive to run, and the game never made enough subs to make that game profitable. That, if true, is why we shall sadly never see pre-CU again.
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
I completely agree, but I can't take us all back in time. I wish I could for a great many reasons, but my powers and abilities don't include time travel.
They need to rebuild it. Do it right. Having a barren starwars game cost more in reputation than the profit it could bring in in my opinion. The power of time travel is from the dark side of the force.
That is what they claim they are trying to do, but some people here flame anyone who supports them in that endeavor.
Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please...
Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly...
SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry...
You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
For how long during pre-CU was pre-CU profitable? Every quarter? No one has said that, and I tend to doubt it. How big was the margin? Large enough to sustain? I doubt that as well. If it was just barely profitable at 350K subs, which we will assume was the peak, then it certainly wasn't profitable at 250K subs, or 200K subs, which is what it seems to have had just pre-CU. Raph has also said that the game currently is doing much better than many of us think. It has also been stated publicly that the pre-CU game was not sustainable, and Smedley, when pressed by certain people we both know, frankly admitted that in the end, cost decided things. That says to me that by the time the NGE decison was made, the game was NOT profitable.
Only if you believe John Smedley was telling the truth. History tells us that is a very unlikely scenario. If the NGE has made the game more profitable, the folks at SOE wouldn't promise not to do it again every time they discuss the future of any product they are even marginally involved with. They also wouldn't have warned every other developer at last years Game Developer's Conference not to make the same mistake they made (the NGE). The NGE was, and is, a complete and utter failure, which several people currently working at SOE have admitted (Smed has even outright said the NGE itself was a mistake in e-mails). If the game was more profitable now than it was prior to the NGE, it wouldn't be considered a mistake. SOE's insistence on never doing another NGE says to me that the game is worse off than it was prior to the NGE.
If what you say was true, the they would open a classic server. Obviously you are missing a piece here, unless you believe they WANT to lose money.
SOE may not be contractually allowed to open classic servers, or they may feel that the expense of getting classic servers up and running would be higher than the extra revenue they would bring in. Had the NGE made the game more profitable than pre-NGE, SOE would be touting it as a success. Nobody is doing that, and when they do mention the NGE, the folks at SOE don't paint it as a good move.
The NGE was a failure in every respect. Nobody from SOE or LEC have ever said the real reason classic servers are off the table. They have only said that they are not going to open one. Much speculation has been done about the reason why, but the only folks who know the real answer aren't willing to divulge that information to the public.
There's a simple bottom line here. Smed's right: SWG SHOULD have over a million subs.
It doesn't, and it won't ever because of the way SOE shitcanned the game with the NGE.
Hell, even if people are unsure of how many current subs there are, everyone is in agreement that SWG does not even have the amount of subscribers it used to. In fact, SWG is now among the mid-tier MMOs in terms of subscriptions, when it used to be among the high-tier. 100k subs is absolutely pathetic given that it's a Star Wars branded Sci Fi fantasy MMORPG and there are really no viable big name Sci Fi alternatives.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
They need to rebuild it. Do it right. Having a barren starwars game cost more in reputation than the profit it could bring in in my opinion. The power of time travel is from the dark side of the force.
That is what they claim they are trying to do, but some people here flame anyone who supports them in that endeavor.
Well, i meant from scratch, but, i understand what your saying. Who are they rebuilding for though? The older WoW players? Starwars Fans? All the people that have left over the years? Would be an extraordinary feat if the where able to pull it off. At least they have the Devs who may be willing to try. But, if its not starwars...its doomed no matter what. Especially to the older crowd. If they restored the lore, it would show that they are serious this time. If they dont then its never gonna be the game it has/had the potential to be and at best add another year or two. But, how could they do that? That would take guts. Thats just my opinion, im no game developer of coarse. What do you think about the lore fish? Is it a problem for the game in your opinion? I havent played in a while, but im only assuming its gotten worse. But maybe its gotten better i dunno.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Fish where do you come up with this stuff? Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please... Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly... SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry... You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
The cost of the servers is not even relevant. This game needed 70 developers pre-CU, it needs 20 now. You do the math
Maybe I'm speculating and maybe I'm not. YOU certainly are, and are speculating against the evidence. If pre-CU were more profitable, they would have already reverted. Plus as said above, had as many people quit as people are claming, the housing demolition would have demolished a LOT more houses. many left, but many stayed, which just proves as I always said, the power of the brand is more powerful than hate.
Raph said what he said at RLMMO.com, I believe, you can check with the people over there, I am no longer affiliated with that website (too much hate now that I am a "traitor" lol), so I won't search there or link there. I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no motive to lie. I am merely sharing for everyone's benefit. Those that matter will hear, those that don't, won't.
And I don't "suddely enjoy" this game, as I have stated maybe ten times here, and have in other places, I have been enjoying it more and more since the past two publishes. That's months. It's still not as good as I would like it to be, and they are still doing this wrong, but it's moving in a positive direction, and I am taking note of that fact and, as always, being fair, as oposed to letting my hate guide me.
Let's get something straight here, I don't HATE SOE a bit. I really don't have any emotional attachment to it. I'm too busy to play like I used to anyways. I miss SWG, but I don't hate SOE, I certainly don't trust them.
You say if the Pre-CU was profitable then classic servers would be open... Well, since when has SOE been a "smart" operation? I truly believe that Smedley has more pride than business-sense. We don't have classic servers because there is a new development team and SOE/LA aren't going to admit total failure.
In all honesty, we don't have classic servers because (and I am speculating here) LA has already given the next license to another company and why would either one spend the dime to roll back the servers with a development team that doesn't have the time or resources to mess with code they aren't familiar with...
SOE had their chance and blew it. Can't wait to play Kotor Online.
Comments
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Interesting.
Classic SWG > CUNGE
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Interesting.
Indeed. Some of the most interesting ones in this thread.
fishermage.blogspot.com
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Interesting.
Indeed. Some of the most interesting ones in this thread.
I love you too man. /hug
Classic SWG > CUNGE
No need to repeat what I have said in other posts, and when someone says something interesting here, I have commented on it
Soooo... you've found both of my posts interesting?
Interesting.
Indeed. Some of the most interesting ones in this thread.
I love you too man. /hug
Everything I do here is an act of love from the purest of intentions. The hatred that abounds saddens me greatly.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Lol @ report. They are obviously paying the reporter something. IF I was interviewing him, he probably not answer or make a bunch of excuses.
lol.... what a tool mr smed is... he still thinks we all are dumb. Quite delusional I must say.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Well obviously there are some who believe him *cough* *cough*... Anyone who willingly pays montly to play SWG: NGE is probably going to believe the lies that fly out of his mouth...
He seemingly has no credibility with most of us.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I don't understand the concept of boredom. With all the interesting things going on in the world and the ideas going on in my head, I've never been bored. Just lucky I guess
fishermage.blogspot.com
You said it in your own words... This is the "spin" that SOE and LA want us to see.
If you want to pretend the lead in.. information was correct.
The game sold over 1,500,000 boxes and has somewhere over 100,000 subs. So that's like a 6 percent account retention?
While I'd agree that when Beast Master came into the game.. a good number of people came back.. I would also state that a good number of those left again. Which still left them in more or less the same state they have been in. Some servers have a decent population while most don't. Which is part of why people argue about the game being dead... On some servers it isn't.. so depending on your point of view aka where you play...
I'd say that the "active" servers probably retained more of the people who came back to them. While the servers that had low populations are still hurting.
So in a sense yes they are gaining subs.. but not a percentage that most companies would be happy with.
I never cared about who was responsible for the NGE...
What boggles me is from the business stand point of .. hey lets make a profit.. why in the hell is there no classic server.
If they really can't do it... because of client variation then there is more wrong with SOE than I would believe possible. Mythic does it with DAoC.. their classic servers (which are clustered now) have the highest population by far of any in the game.
Its not like SOE was the only company to piss off or lose customers... what I want to see answered in an article.. is why they aren't doing anything to really try and regain some and make more profit.. when they keep claiming to be in it "for the long haul".
Its not about roll back or what was better. Its about as a company... your goal is to make profit. I think most people would admit that a classic server would be full... which equates to profit...
I mean just look at it from the perspective of if this was your company and you wanted to make all the money you could. Rather than a player perspective trying to argue on a forum. Then try to figure out why they won't really answer the question... or go after the profit that is waiting to happen...
While claiming to be in it .. "for the long haul".
That's what bothers me everytime I see an interview with Smed.
See, I love things like that... You can look on the boards and see how many are on the forums. I think it is a safe bet to say that 25% of the playerbase uses the forums.
With that said... I could see, on a good day, with the station passes being as many as that would add up to be. 60k yeah... maybe... but not 100k I just find that hard to bite.
Well, I mean gosh think about this: SINCE WHEN HAS SOE OR THE SWG STAFF BEEN HONEST ABOUT THINGS??? Don't say since (AS OF NOW) because that will just dig a hole with the next comment.
I mean really, how many times have the lied, misslead, told us bullshit and or pretty much failed at making good on things?
Yeah.... I rest my case on the "honesty" part.
_________________________________________________________
lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
You said it in your own words... This is the "spin" that SOE and LA want us to see.
If you want to pretend the lead in.. information was correct.
The game sold over 1,500,000 boxes and has somewhere over 100,000 subs. So that's like a 6 percent account retention?
While I'd agree that when Beast Master came into the game.. a good number of people came back.. I would also state that a good number of those left again. Which still left them in more or less the same state they have been in. Some servers have a decent population while most don't. Which is part of why people argue about the game being dead... On some servers it isn't.. so depending on your point of view aka where you play...
I'd say that the "active" servers probably retained more of the people who came back to them. While the servers that had low populations are still hurting.
So in a sense yes they are gaining subs.. but not a percentage that most companies would be happy with.
I never cared about who was responsible for the NGE...
What boggles me is from the business stand point of .. hey lets make a profit.. why in the hell is there no classic server.
If they really can't do it... because of client variation then there is more wrong with SOE than I would believe possible. Mythic does it with DAoC.. their classic servers (which are clustered now) have the highest population by far of any in the game.
Its not like SOE was the only company to piss off or lose customers... what I want to see answered in an article.. is why they aren't doing anything to really try and regain some and make more profit.. when they keep claiming to be in it "for the long haul".
Its not about roll back or what was better. Its about as a company... your goal is to make profit. I think most people would admit that a classic server would be full... which equates to profit...
I mean just look at it from the perspective of if this was your company and you wanted to make all the money you could. Rather than a player perspective trying to argue on a forum. Then try to figure out why they won't really answer the question... or go after the profit that is waiting to happen...
While claiming to be in it .. "for the long haul".
That's what bothers me everytime I see an interview with Smed.
Severs were never full, the game was supposed to achieve one million subs -- I think it never made even close to its break-even point.
What makes you think that pre-CU ever made a profit? I loved that game more than any other, but as I see it, it was incredibly expensive to run, and the game never made enough subs to make that game profitable.
That, if true, is why we shall sadly never see pre-CU again.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I think Raph Koster has said the game was profitable pre-CU, it just never reached the numbers that were expected (I think in the comment section of either his blog or the Broken Toys blog). the main problem was subscriber retention, due to lack of directed content (according to the main reason quitting players picked on the exit survey. Oddly enough, the reaction by the developers was to nerf and tweak the professions and focus development time on making Jedi easier for people to attain.
The current game is absolutely barren compared to pre-CU or even the CU. Even the "Heavy" population servers are much less populated than they once were. There was a point that SOE offered free character transfers from Bria to any other server due to the number of people playing on Bria causing the server to crash. They even upgraded Bria's hardware at one point in an attempt to handle the server load. They might have to do something similar, after they merge the servers at the end of this year, only because the current game system causes much more lag with many times fewer people around.
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
For how long during pre-CU was pre-CU profitable? Every quarter? No one has said that, and I tend to doubt it. How big was the margin? Large enough to sustain? I doubt that as well. If it was just barely profitable at 350K subs, which we will assume was the peak, then it certainly wasn't profitable at 250K subs, or 200K subs, which is what it seems to have had just pre-CU.
Raph has also said that the game currently is doing much better than many of us think. It has also been stated publicly that the pre-CU game was not sustainable, and Smedley, when pressed by certain people we both know, frankly admitted that in the end, cost decided things. That says to me that by the time the NGE decison was made, the game was NOT profitable.
The current game could be barren compared with pre-CU, but if the costs are sufficiently lower, it might have a higher margin of profit than at any time pre-CU. That alone prevents us from having our game back. When we see what a bust the housing demolition was, it is obvious that a very large number of people are paying and not playing, holding out hope for the future.
Now, I agree with you, had they fixed the problems that were broken, and made many other changes during the pre-CU period, the game MIGHT have done better, but that would again involve going back in time, re-doing the history of the game, and sadly, that's not possible.
We all agree that the NGE was a mistake, but the question returns to: leave one failure to return to another failure, one with maybe more customers but certainly higher costs, or move ahead with the current cheaper failure. I too wish they would choose the former, but I don't think that's a realistic choice. I wish and hope it was, but it's not from what I see.
Either way, no one really knows, but we have two choices: either they are intentionally doing what they believe makes them less money, or they are intentionally doing what they think makes them the most money. I am sure if anyone could convince them that classic servers wiuld make more money, they would do it. Either no one can convince them of that, ir it's just not true. OR they WANT to lose money for some odd reason.
I knew this had to be the only choices, which is why I could only see the loss-lead scenario as the reason: use SWG to get people in the door, then shift them as customers into EQ2. I no longer believe that to be the case, but for awhile it was the only one that made sense to me.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
I completely agree, but I can't take us all back in time. I wish I could for a great many reasons, but my powers and abilities don't include time travel.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
I completely agree, but I can't take us all back in time. I wish I could for a great many reasons, but my powers and abilities don't include time travel.
They need to rebuild it. Do it right. Having a barren starwars game cost more in reputation than the profit it could bring in in my opinion. The power of time travel is from the dark side of the force.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Only if you believe John Smedley was telling the truth. History tells us that is a very unlikely scenario. If the NGE has made the game more profitable, the folks at SOE wouldn't promise not to do it again every time they discuss the future of any product they are even marginally involved with. They also wouldn't have warned every other developer at last years Game Developer's Conference not to make the same mistake they made (the NGE). The NGE was, and is, a complete and utter failure, which several people currently working at SOE have admitted (Smed has even outright said the NGE itself was a mistake in e-mails). If the game was more profitable now than it was prior to the NGE, it wouldn't be considered a mistake. SOE's insistence on never doing another NGE says to me that the game is worse off than it was prior to the NGE.
Only if you believe John Smedley was telling the truth. History tells us that is a very unlikely scenario. If the NGE has made the game more profitable, the folks at SOE wouldn't promise not to do it again every time they discuss the future of any product they are even marginally involved with. They also wouldn't have warned every other developer at last years Game Developer's Conference not to make the same mistake they made (the NGE). The NGE was, and is, a complete and utter failure, which several people currently working at SOE have admitted (Smed has even outright said the NGE itself was a mistake in e-mails). If the game was more profitable now than it was prior to the NGE, it wouldn't be considered a mistake. SOE's insistence on never doing another NGE says to me that the game is worse off than it was prior to the NGE.
If what you say was true, the they would open a classic server. Obviously you are missing a piece here, unless you believe they WANT to lose money.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Im just taking a wild guess...but Im pretty sure they made they're initial investment back with plenty of profit to pay the executives their bonus. It might be possible that after WOW there werent enought subs to make a profit to justify continual development. Development that consisted of 70 devs. Or that no profit was made due to mismanagement and poor resource allocation. Or that they threw up way to many servers. I also believe Raph is on record somewhere as saying swg needed 100k subs to stay out of the red. Not saying that what you said is wrong, but there isnt enough information out there that would say for sure one way or the other. Pre-cu might not have been profitable, but it might not have been pre-cu itself that was the problem. It was more of how they whole thing went..early launch ect.. ect.. that ate the profits. Just my opinion, but to say pre-cu was unprofitable so they cant bring it back without further detail on the subject is like me saying it had poor development because our devs were making eq2.
I completely agree, but I can't take us all back in time. I wish I could for a great many reasons, but my powers and abilities don't include time travel.
They need to rebuild it. Do it right. Having a barren starwars game cost more in reputation than the profit it could bring in in my opinion. The power of time travel is from the dark side of the force.
That is what they claim they are trying to do, but some people here flame anyone who supports them in that endeavor.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Fish where do you come up with this stuff?
Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please...
Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly...
SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry...
You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
Only if you believe John Smedley was telling the truth. History tells us that is a very unlikely scenario. If the NGE has made the game more profitable, the folks at SOE wouldn't promise not to do it again every time they discuss the future of any product they are even marginally involved with. They also wouldn't have warned every other developer at last years Game Developer's Conference not to make the same mistake they made (the NGE). The NGE was, and is, a complete and utter failure, which several people currently working at SOE have admitted (Smed has even outright said the NGE itself was a mistake in e-mails). If the game was more profitable now than it was prior to the NGE, it wouldn't be considered a mistake. SOE's insistence on never doing another NGE says to me that the game is worse off than it was prior to the NGE.
If what you say was true, the they would open a classic server. Obviously you are missing a piece here, unless you believe they WANT to lose money.
SOE may not be contractually allowed to open classic servers, or they may feel that the expense of getting classic servers up and running would be higher than the extra revenue they would bring in. Had the NGE made the game more profitable than pre-NGE, SOE would be touting it as a success. Nobody is doing that, and when they do mention the NGE, the folks at SOE don't paint it as a good move.
The NGE was a failure in every respect. Nobody from SOE or LEC have ever said the real reason classic servers are off the table. They have only said that they are not going to open one. Much speculation has been done about the reason why, but the only folks who know the real answer aren't willing to divulge that information to the public.
There's a simple bottom line here. Smed's right: SWG SHOULD have over a million subs.
It doesn't, and it won't ever because of the way SOE shitcanned the game with the NGE.
Hell, even if people are unsure of how many current subs there are, everyone is in agreement that SWG does not even have the amount of subscribers it used to. In fact, SWG is now among the mid-tier MMOs in terms of subscriptions, when it used to be among the high-tier. 100k subs is absolutely pathetic given that it's a Star Wars branded Sci Fi fantasy MMORPG and there are really no viable big name Sci Fi alternatives.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Well, i meant from scratch, but, i understand what your saying. Who are they rebuilding for though? The older WoW players? Starwars Fans? All the people that have left over the years? Would be an extraordinary feat if the where able to pull it off. At least they have the Devs who may be willing to try. But, if its not starwars...its doomed no matter what. Especially to the older crowd. If they restored the lore, it would show that they are serious this time. If they dont then its never gonna be the game it has/had the potential to be and at best add another year or two. But, how could they do that? That would take guts. Thats just my opinion, im no game developer of coarse. What do you think about the lore fish? Is it a problem for the game in your opinion? I havent played in a while, but im only assuming its gotten worse. But maybe its gotten better i dunno.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
The cost of the servers is not even relevant. This game needed 70 developers pre-CU, it needs 20 now. You do the math
Maybe I'm speculating and maybe I'm not. YOU certainly are, and are speculating against the evidence. If pre-CU were more profitable, they would have already reverted. Plus as said above, had as many people quit as people are claming, the housing demolition would have demolished a LOT more houses. many left, but many stayed, which just proves as I always said, the power of the brand is more powerful than hate.
Raph said what he said at RLMMO.com, I believe, you can check with the people over there, I am no longer affiliated with that website (too much hate now that I am a "traitor" lol), so I won't search there or link there. I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no motive to lie. I am merely sharing for everyone's benefit. Those that matter will hear, those that don't, won't.
And I don't "suddely enjoy" this game, as I have stated maybe ten times here, and have in other places, I have been enjoying it more and more since the past two publishes. That's months. It's still not as good as I would like it to be, and they are still doing this wrong, but it's moving in a positive direction, and I am taking note of that fact and, as always, being fair, as oposed to letting my hate guide me.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Let's get something straight here, I don't HATE SOE a bit. I really don't have any emotional attachment to it. I'm too busy to play like I used to anyways. I miss SWG, but I don't hate SOE, I certainly don't trust them.
You say if the Pre-CU was profitable then classic servers would be open... Well, since when has SOE been a "smart" operation? I truly believe that Smedley has more pride than business-sense. We don't have classic servers because there is a new development team and SOE/LA aren't going to admit total failure.
In all honesty, we don't have classic servers because (and I am speculating here) LA has already given the next license to another company and why would either one spend the dime to roll back the servers with a development team that doesn't have the time or resources to mess with code they aren't familiar with...
SOE had their chance and blew it. Can't wait to play Kotor Online.