Also Fish, the housing demolition was a joke... All one has to do to keep their housing is log for a day and pay 3 years of maintenance. You can't tell me that every building standing has active players along with it... Not even 1/10th of them do, even to this day.
You're getting to be as bad as the fanbios that troll our forum dude...
I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around.
And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either.
Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today.
They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left.
I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you.
I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
fishermagi let me tell u this much at one time i used to respect u. when all the little nge fanbois where running their mouths on the forums u where the one that came out & told them to shut it & told soe what they had to do. namely roll the game back to the pre-cu and repay those of us that got screwed over by them.
so u got to met some of the dev's & maybe they are good guys but they are clueless as to what we want & how to run swg. 300k players told them that they did not want cu or nge. we told them by quitting that we want pre-cu. we told them that we already had the best content in any game like the village & now look at what chapter 7 is. it sucks & no one likes it or wants it. we even told them that we did not want jtls but they wasted more time working on something people played for 2 days & then stopped doing.
fisher please ur a leader & people look up to u. drop this whole thing that soe cares about the game & come back to the right side to the side of players that do care bout swg.
Let's get something straight here, I don't HATE SOE a bit. I really don't have any emotional attachment to it. I'm too busy to play like I used to anyways. I miss SWG, but I don't hate SOE, I certainly don't trust them. You say if the Pre-CU was profitable then classic servers would be open... Well, since when has SOE been a "smart" operation? I truly believe that Smedley has more pride than business-sense. We don't have classic servers because there is a new development team and SOE/LA aren't going to admit total failure. In all honesty, we don't have classic servers because (and I am speculating here) LA has already given the next license to another company and why would either one spend the dime to roll back the servers with a development team that doesn't have the time or resources to mess with code they aren't familiar with... SOE had their chance and blew it. Can't wait to play Kotor Online.
Also Fish, the housing demolition was a joke... All one has to do to keep their housing is log for a day and pay 3 years of maintenance. You can't tell me that every building standing has active players along with it... Not even 1/10th of them do, even to this day. You're getting to be as bad as the fanbios that troll our forum dude...
All that shows is people are paying and not playing, which is what I am saying. Are you suggesting that people paid for a month JUST for the sake of revenge? Hmmm. Interesting.
Obviously you are not reading what I am actually writing, because you seem to be inferring things I am not implying. You also in a weird way are merely confirming what I actually AM saying.
fishermagi let me tell u this much at one time i used to respect u. when all the little nge fanbois where running their mouths on the forums u where the one that came out & told them to shut it & told soe what they had to do. namely roll the game back to the pre-cu and repay those of us that got screwed over by them. so u got to met some of the dev's & maybe they are good guys but they are clueless as to what we want & how to run swg. 300k players told them that they did not want cu or nge. we told them by quitting that we want pre-cu. we told them that we already had the best content in any game like the village & now look at what chapter 7 is. it sucks & no one likes it or wants it. we even told them that we did not want jtls but they wasted more time working on something people played for 2 days & then stopped doing. fisher please ur a leader & people look up to u. drop this whole thing that soe cares about the game & come back to the right side to the side of players that do care bout swg.
Please don't lie about me. I was always against a rollback (except for about the first six weeks of the NGE), because I am against people screwing people over -- at a certain point, to roll the game back would be just as unethical to the current playerbase as the CUNGE was to us -- two, three wrongs don't make a right.
I was and always have advocated classic servers. Short of that, I have next in line advocated making the current game better by incorporating things from the original game -- make crafted better than loot, bring back hybridization, diversity, TKA, Crature Handler, and stop lying to players by keeping your word over time.
To a CERTAIN extent, SOE has done that in the last two publishes. Now, does this mean I trust them. Hell no. Does it mean I like what they are doing now? yes, in context.
Now I have gotten to meet them and yeah, I like some of them more than I did when they were just concepts to me. I STILL don't like their boss, Smedley. I still don't trust him, not as far as I can throw him (which probably isn't very far hehehe cheap shot I know).
Sorry to have lost your respect but I am still the same person, very little has changed, but the game has to some extent and to that extent I am acknowledging it.
Sadly no one looks up to me any longer (if they ever really did), now that I have broken from the established dogma and the religion around here. Now I have been anathamatized and whereas I find it somewhat amusing, I mostly find it sad. One finds out who ones real friends are (and who are not) when that friendship depends on one's subscription to a certain faith. reminds me of some fundamentalists I argue scripture with.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Fish where do you come up with this stuff? Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please... Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly... SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry... You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
The cost of the servers is not even relevant. This game needed 70 developers pre-CU, it needs 20 now. You do the math Maybe I'm speculating and maybe I'm not. YOU certainly are, and are speculating against the evidence. If pre-CU were more profitable, they would have already reverted. Plus as said above, had as many people quit as people are claming, the housing demolition would have demolished a LOT more houses. many left, but many stayed, which just proves as I always said, the power of the brand is more powerful than hate. Raph said what he said at RLMMO.com, I believe, you can check with the people over there, I am no longer affiliated with that website (too much hate now that I am a "traitor" lol), so I won't search there or link there. I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no motive to lie. I am merely sharing for everyone's benefit. Those that matter will hear, those that don't, won't. And I don't "suddely enjoy" this game, as I have stated maybe ten times here, and have in other places, I have been enjoying it more and more since the past two publishes. That's months. It's still not as good as I would like it to be, and they are still doing this wrong, but it's moving in a positive direction, and I am taking note of that fact and, as always, being fair, as oposed to letting my hate guide me. The 70 developers, pre-CU included the team working on the JtL expansion. WoW currently has around 130 developers, including the folks working on their latest expansion. To put the SWG numbers in perspective, Vanguard has around 50 people on their development team. EQ2 has a similar number. Vanguard is still bleeding subs as fast as post NGE SWG has. Vanguard is doing poorly enough that SOE has decided to give EQ2, along with all the expansions, mini-adventure packs, and up to 90 days worth of play time, to everyone who played Vanguard and quit. Vanguard has two and a half times the development resources devoted to it that SWG has, and SOE has all but given up on it, considering they are trying to push former Vanguard players to the game they want to be their flagship MMO (even though it still lags behind EQ, subscription wise, at least prior to the almost 200k giveaway).
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade."
Fish where do you come up with this stuff? Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please... Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly... SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry... You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
The cost of the servers is not even relevant. This game needed 70 developers pre-CU, it needs 20 now. You do the math Maybe I'm speculating and maybe I'm not. YOU certainly are, and are speculating against the evidence. If pre-CU were more profitable, they would have already reverted. Plus as said above, had as many people quit as people are claming, the housing demolition would have demolished a LOT more houses. many left, but many stayed, which just proves as I always said, the power of the brand is more powerful than hate. Raph said what he said at RLMMO.com, I believe, you can check with the people over there, I am no longer affiliated with that website (too much hate now that I am a "traitor" lol), so I won't search there or link there. I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no motive to lie. I am merely sharing for everyone's benefit. Those that matter will hear, those that don't, won't. And I don't "suddely enjoy" this game, as I have stated maybe ten times here, and have in other places, I have been enjoying it more and more since the past two publishes. That's months. It's still not as good as I would like it to be, and they are still doing this wrong, but it's moving in a positive direction, and I am taking note of that fact and, as always, being fair, as oposed to letting my hate guide me. The 70 developers, pre-CU included the team working on the JtL expansion. WoW currently has around 130 developers, including the folks working on their latest expansion. To put the SWG numbers in perspective, Vanguard has around 50 people on their development team. EQ2 has a similar number. Vanguard is still bleeding subs as fast as post NGE SWG has. Vanguard is doing poorly enough that SOE has decided to give EQ2, along with all the expansions, mini-adventure packs, and up to 90 days worth of play time, to everyone who played Vanguard and quit. Vanguard has two and a half times the development resources devoted to it that SWG has, and SOE has all but given up on it, considering they are trying to push former Vanguard players to the game they want to be their flagship MMO (even though it still lags behind EQ, subscription wise, at least prior to the almost 200k giveaway).
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
Fish where do you come up with this stuff? Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please... Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly... SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry... You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
The cost of the servers is not even relevant. This game needed 70 developers pre-CU, it needs 20 now. You do the math Maybe I'm speculating and maybe I'm not. YOU certainly are, and are speculating against the evidence. If pre-CU were more profitable, they would have already reverted. Plus as said above, had as many people quit as people are claming, the housing demolition would have demolished a LOT more houses. many left, but many stayed, which just proves as I always said, the power of the brand is more powerful than hate. Raph said what he said at RLMMO.com, I believe, you can check with the people over there, I am no longer affiliated with that website (too much hate now that I am a "traitor" lol), so I won't search there or link there. I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no motive to lie. I am merely sharing for everyone's benefit. Those that matter will hear, those that don't, won't. And I don't "suddely enjoy" this game, as I have stated maybe ten times here, and have in other places, I have been enjoying it more and more since the past two publishes. That's months. It's still not as good as I would like it to be, and they are still doing this wrong, but it's moving in a positive direction, and I am taking note of that fact and, as always, being fair, as oposed to letting my hate guide me. The 70 developers, pre-CU included the team working on the JtL expansion. WoW currently has around 130 developers, including the folks working on their latest expansion. To put the SWG numbers in perspective, Vanguard has around 50 people on their development team. EQ2 has a similar number. Vanguard is still bleeding subs as fast as post NGE SWG has. Vanguard is doing poorly enough that SOE has decided to give EQ2, along with all the expansions, mini-adventure packs, and up to 90 days worth of play time, to everyone who played Vanguard and quit. Vanguard has two and a half times the development resources devoted to it that SWG has, and SOE has all but given up on it, considering they are trying to push former Vanguard players to the game they want to be their flagship MMO (even though it still lags behind EQ, subscription wise, at least prior to the almost 200k giveaway).
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
You have posted that you think the game is more profitable now, as opposed to pre-NGE. That is the reason you think SOE/LEC refuses to offer a classic server. I disagree with that, as my previous posts have explained, including the reasons why I feel the way I do. You have then chalked up the negativity of the current game to folks hating the NGE/SOE, which I also disagreed with, and explained why. I've read what you've posted, and offered counter-arguments.
You're pointing to a much smaller development team, on which doesn't include a team working on an expansion as the team comprised of 70 people does, as a reason SWG is more profitable now, than it was prior to the NGE. I posted that I feel the smaller team indicates the game isn't as profitable as it once was, and point out the lack of an upcoming expansion as further evidence the current number of subscribers, along with the smaller development team, doesn't necessarily translate into more profit.
I'd disagree with things being better than when the NGE launched, since I saw fewer players on both Bria and Sunrunner, than I did in May of 2006, when I finally canceled my account (It expired June 27, 2006, exactly three years after opening it). From what I saw just a few days ago, if SWG has seen a turnaround in subscription numbers, it is from a severe lowpoint achieved sometime last year.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
No server merge because LucasArts said no. Not because they don't think the game needs them, but because they are still pissed off over the fallout from the NGE. The NGE was meant to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The folks at LucasArts being pissed off is a likely reason many needed changes aren't going to happen, as opposed to anyone at SOE learning a lesson from the NGE. Would you really trust anyone at SOE, when they tell you something will improve the game, after they said the NGE was a good thing? I think the folks at LEC are a bit gunshy about future SWG developments.
Fish where do you come up with this stuff? Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please... Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly... SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry... You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
The cost of the servers is not even relevant. This game needed 70 developers pre-CU, it needs 20 now. You do the math Maybe I'm speculating and maybe I'm not. YOU certainly are, and are speculating against the evidence. If pre-CU were more profitable, they would have already reverted. Plus as said above, had as many people quit as people are claming, the housing demolition would have demolished a LOT more houses. many left, but many stayed, which just proves as I always said, the power of the brand is more powerful than hate. Raph said what he said at RLMMO.com, I believe, you can check with the people over there, I am no longer affiliated with that website (too much hate now that I am a "traitor" lol), so I won't search there or link there. I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no motive to lie. I am merely sharing for everyone's benefit. Those that matter will hear, those that don't, won't. And I don't "suddely enjoy" this game, as I have stated maybe ten times here, and have in other places, I have been enjoying it more and more since the past two publishes. That's months. It's still not as good as I would like it to be, and they are still doing this wrong, but it's moving in a positive direction, and I am taking note of that fact and, as always, being fair, as oposed to letting my hate guide me. The 70 developers, pre-CU included the team working on the JtL expansion. WoW currently has around 130 developers, including the folks working on their latest expansion. To put the SWG numbers in perspective, Vanguard has around 50 people on their development team. EQ2 has a similar number. Vanguard is still bleeding subs as fast as post NGE SWG has. Vanguard is doing poorly enough that SOE has decided to give EQ2, along with all the expansions, mini-adventure packs, and up to 90 days worth of play time, to everyone who played Vanguard and quit. Vanguard has two and a half times the development resources devoted to it that SWG has, and SOE has all but given up on it, considering they are trying to push former Vanguard players to the game they want to be their flagship MMO (even though it still lags behind EQ, subscription wise, at least prior to the almost 200k giveaway).
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
You have posted that you think the game is more profitable now, as opposed to pre-NGE. That is the reason you think SOE/LEC refuses to offer a classic server. I disagree with that, as my previous posts have explained, including the reasons why I feel the way I do. You have then chalked up the negativity of the current game to folks hating the NGE/SOE, which I also disagreed with, and explained why. I've read what you've posted, and offered counter-arguments.
You're pointing to a much smaller development team, on which doesn't include a team working on an expansion as the team comprised of 70 people does, as a reason SWG is more profitable now, than it was prior to the NGE. I posted that I feel the smaller team indicates the game isn't as profitable as it once was, and point out the lack of an upcoming expansion as further evidence the current number of subscribers, along with the smaller development team, doesn't necessarily translate into more profit.
I'd disagree with things being better than when the NGE launched, since I saw fewer players on both Bria and Sunrunner, than I did in May of 2006, when I finally canceled my account (It expired June 27, 2006, exactly three years after opening it). From what I saw just a few days ago, if SWG has seen a turnaround in subscription numbers, it is from a severe lowpoint achieved sometime last year.
Well, just have to agree to disagree then. You haven't offerend a single counter-argument for anything I have actually said. I am not saying that anything TRANSLATES into more profit, any more than anything YOU say translates into less profit. All I can say is I think you've got your facts wrong and leave it at that.
All I can say is that on Intrepid, Bloodfin and all the servers I play on, there are more people now than when the NGE caused the great crash.
You are free to percieve things differently. All I can say to that is those of us who have been playing all along have a better vantage point from which to speak.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
By far, most people do not want a server merge. The remaining customers are not screaming for them - it's the same five people and then far more disagree with them. DeadMeast explained why they won't do it -- it's because it would upset communities and the playerbase in general. They would rather concentrate on getting more players. Now again he might be lying, but I have no reason to believe he is.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
No server merge because LucasArts said no. Not because they don't think the game needs them, but because they are still pissed off over the fallout from the NGE. The NGE was meant to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The folks at LucasArts being pissed off is a likely reason many needed changes aren't going to happen, as opposed to anyone at SOE learning a lesson from the NGE. Would you really trust anyone at SOE, when they tell you something will improve the game, after they said the NGE was a good thing? I think the folks at LEC are a bit gunshy about future SWG developments.
I have seen no evidence that LEC said no, and from what I've seen it was a decision from the SOE end of things. Again what you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what I have observed.
From what I have seen LEC and SOE finally now have a good working relationship -- probably the first time since the CU.
Fish where do you come up with this stuff? Link us to where Raph said how well SWG was doing now? He is the headman at a competing developer, how did he get this knowledge? When and where did he say this? Link please... Secondly, you are SPECULATING about the profits. 350,000 X $15 vs 20,000 X $15. You do the math there buddy. The servers cost THE SAME to run on NGE or Pre-CU code, period. The ONLY advantage to the NGE (which is also why it sucks as bad as it does) is that you don't keep on as many developers fixing bugs, correcting code, etc. Hence you have NO expansions, you have horrible gameplay, and patches come every 6 months as opposed to monthly or bi-monthly... SOE isn't making money off of SWG and neither is Lucas. They WERE making money off of it but wanted to make MORE money a la Blizzard... They gambled, lost, and now we all see the resulting game you suddenly enjoy... The NGE piece of garbage that is the laughing stock of the gaming industry... You can speculate all you want but it doesn't mean squat until you compare the numbers. There is NO WAY that Pre-CU wasn't profitable. There is a big difference in profit and greed.
The cost of the servers is not even relevant. This game needed 70 developers pre-CU, it needs 20 now. You do the math Maybe I'm speculating and maybe I'm not. YOU certainly are, and are speculating against the evidence. If pre-CU were more profitable, they would have already reverted. Plus as said above, had as many people quit as people are claming, the housing demolition would have demolished a LOT more houses. many left, but many stayed, which just proves as I always said, the power of the brand is more powerful than hate. Raph said what he said at RLMMO.com, I believe, you can check with the people over there, I am no longer affiliated with that website (too much hate now that I am a "traitor" lol), so I won't search there or link there. I don't care if you believe me or not. I have no motive to lie. I am merely sharing for everyone's benefit. Those that matter will hear, those that don't, won't. And I don't "suddely enjoy" this game, as I have stated maybe ten times here, and have in other places, I have been enjoying it more and more since the past two publishes. That's months. It's still not as good as I would like it to be, and they are still doing this wrong, but it's moving in a positive direction, and I am taking note of that fact and, as always, being fair, as oposed to letting my hate guide me. The 70 developers, pre-CU included the team working on the JtL expansion. WoW currently has around 130 developers, including the folks working on their latest expansion. To put the SWG numbers in perspective, Vanguard has around 50 people on their development team. EQ2 has a similar number. Vanguard is still bleeding subs as fast as post NGE SWG has. Vanguard is doing poorly enough that SOE has decided to give EQ2, along with all the expansions, mini-adventure packs, and up to 90 days worth of play time, to everyone who played Vanguard and quit. Vanguard has two and a half times the development resources devoted to it that SWG has, and SOE has all but given up on it, considering they are trying to push former Vanguard players to the game they want to be their flagship MMO (even though it still lags behind EQ, subscription wise, at least prior to the almost 200k giveaway).
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
You have posted that you think the game is more profitable now, as opposed to pre-NGE. That is the reason you think SOE/LEC refuses to offer a classic server. I disagree with that, as my previous posts have explained, including the reasons why I feel the way I do. You have then chalked up the negativity of the current game to folks hating the NGE/SOE, which I also disagreed with, and explained why. I've read what you've posted, and offered counter-arguments.
You're pointing to a much smaller development team, on which doesn't include a team working on an expansion as the team comprised of 70 people does, as a reason SWG is more profitable now, than it was prior to the NGE. I posted that I feel the smaller team indicates the game isn't as profitable as it once was, and point out the lack of an upcoming expansion as further evidence the current number of subscribers, along with the smaller development team, doesn't necessarily translate into more profit.
I'd disagree with things being better than when the NGE launched, since I saw fewer players on both Bria and Sunrunner, than I did in May of 2006, when I finally canceled my account (It expired June 27, 2006, exactly three years after opening it). From what I saw just a few days ago, if SWG has seen a turnaround in subscription numbers, it is from a severe lowpoint achieved sometime last year.
Well, just have to agree to disagree then. You haven't offerend a single counter-argument for anything I have actually said. I am not saying that anything TRANSLATES into more profit, any more than anything YOU say translates into less profit. All I can say is I think you've got your facts wrong and leave it at that. All I can say is that on Intrepid, Bloodfin and all the servers I play on, there are more people now than when the NGE caused the great crash. You are free to percieve things differently. All I can say to that is those of us who have been playing all along have a better vantage point from which to speak.
Fair enough. I'll still say that the reduction in developers and lack of expansions are proof the game is doing worse than pre-NGE. I'll also not my recent free vet trial has made me think the game is actually worse than it was a year ago, and has fewer players, at least on Sunrunner, and Bria, which was the only server to maintain the label of "Heavy" both times I logged in (I went ot the character creation screen before logging in my existing characters). Bloodfin was listed as "Medium" and "Heavy" the four times I checked (I logged one character each on both servers during the afternoon and later in the evening, the evening time just to see the difference in population, since I was appalled by the game itself the first time I logged in). I didn't look at what Intrepid was labeled as, though I know it was less then "Heavy" both times.
The game itself is horrible, and even having a Star Wars skin isn't enough to make me understand why there are people who voluntarily pay actual money to play it. It is actually worse than I remember it being when I quit just over a year ago, which surprised me. The current game is the worst MMO I've ever played, which includes the game I quit over a year ago (or at least the game I thought I remembered, considering you and a few others claim the current game is better). SWG, as it currently exists, needs a complete revamp. Unfortunately, the abysmal failure of the NGE has caused SOE and LEC to thing that the revamps themselves are the problem, rather than taking an existing game and making it much, much worse through a revamp. As always, since the launch of SWG, the wrong lessons are learned, even when the right ones are being shoved in the developer's faces.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
By far, most people do not want a server merge. The remaining customers are not screaming for them - it's the same five people and then far more disagree with them. DeadMeast explained why they won't do it -- it's because it would upset communities and the playerbase in general. They would rather concentrate on getting more players. Now again he might be lying, but I have no reason to believe he is.
I'll say, without any reservation, that if Deadmeat gave that as the reason behind not doing server merges, he is lying. I don't believe they had such a change of heart within a week (the time between Smed posting they needed to "fasttrack" server merges and Jake Neri announcing server merges weren't happening this year). The game has less than half the subscribers it had prior to the NGE, I don't think the folks at SOE or LEC are so divorced from reality to believe there is going to be a large enough increase in subscriptions to make the current number of servers viable.
If Deadmeat had used the fact that ten times less players, in the same area, causes ten times the lag it did before the NGE, as the reason, I might have given him the benefit of the doubt. As things stand, I'll call him a liar, without an reservation. I'll also point out that the fact that he is willing to lie over such an insignificant thing, means he will almost certainly lie over bigger issues. Just offering you a heads up.
Let's also not forget track record, history, missleadings that happend prior. Also let's not forget how many times they said "This will not change" and then -- well, they did. I cannot count how many things they have said and done different. They have said bold face to people at Fan Fests and Summits things that were utter false or did not come to pass. Deadmeat is a filler at this point. Blix.. WAS INVOLVED AND SUPPORTED THE NGE... do not forget this... DO NOT FORGET he argued it and how great it was to us at the summits. DO NOT FORGET this is the same person that said loot was broken, the FRS was coming and that the new Ranger class will be great. DO NOT FORGET how many people quit or got fired due to this products success and failure. These are not made up -- these are facts. No opinion, just facts. When the freaking creator of the game leaves... do you just not get how this will end up???? Guys... IF HE jumps off the Titanic then I mean come on.... use some logic here. Again.... sinking ship. Logic.... I sometimes feel this is like defending Hitler. We all know what he did, we all know how bad he was... yet some people followed him. I just don't get it.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
I don't know if you play Kauri, but that is my home server so let me just say what is kinda going on with it.
Kauri became a PvP Heavy Server last year like most due to Helios believing PvP was the end all 'content' that the Player Base wanted. Now I'm not a big time PvPer, I believe PvP has a 'place' in an MMO but unless the MMO is made with PvP as the sole idea of the game like Planetside or Shadowbane, you've going to have PvE Players and really non hardcore PvPer's trying to get into it. Anyway at the start of the NGE till about August of last year Kauri was a big Rebel Server, well even before that. But that was mostly due to a guild (FS) having tons of Jedi Players in the Pre-CU and CU.
Now yes the Rebels did out number the Imp's by a good number, however I should note that battles where mostly even. And well we had a TON of stupid Rebel PvPer's as well. Namely guys who rather then wait for the battle to come to them would lead half our force, get them killed and then whine when we lost. I should note that 'many' of the Players that would do that, and a good number of Rebels and Imp's where Elder Jedi's as well.
Still around August of last year 4 well known Rebels had come back to the server and rejoined one of Kauri's bigger Rebel Guilds. What we didn't know at the time was those 4 had run off when the NGE came out to Guild Wars and had started talking to the Leader and a few members of another Kauri Imp Guild and had decided to come back. Now as much as they brag that they didn't do anything wrong, they did claim they where back and "Rebels for good" and where given a good amount of items, credits and I believe someone did take one of them from 80 to 90. Anyway one day out of the blue they just quit and went Imp and joined this guild and that's where alot of this starts...
See what they may or may not have known was many Imp Players where also returning at that time as well. Also rather then it just be 'them' they did talk a number of Rebels into going Imp and joining up with them. If you really read the forums you will see that many of those Players insult and trash talk anyone that is not a PvPer. Infact they stuck up for a known Grief Player who was banned and talked the Player who got this Player banned into gettting said Grief Player unbanned, namely due to the fact that this Griefer was Imp and a good PvPer. Infact they did bring that up when talking about it. Any Rebel Leader that tried to come along was just flamed and insulted and they did run one of them off. Not only that it just became one big flame war with many of the Imp's, if the Rebels won one battle one night, then they would scream about how they got out numbered or the like on the Kauri Forums.
There are some other colorful things many of those Imp Players did as well, a joint Rebel/Imp Events thing was planned out, the idea being that trying to mend some fences and work with one another would keep the server alive. However one returning Player (another Rebel who went Imp) flamed anyone on the forums about it, and in the end killed it and got his own events going. The Imp's would gladly call in anyone base busting or report anyone they could. However if someone did it to them, dear god it was "Who did it!?!" and whoever did was insulted to high hell.
And not only that the Imp's rather then try to keep things somewhat balanced in order to have good PvP fights did everything in their power to make it one sided. Be it from getting Rebels to go Imp, flaming Rebels on the Forums, insulting and trash talking in game, and talking about how the Rebels out number them. With Kauri that is somewhat true as most of the server is made up of French Players in the day, at night you have more U.S. Players. Most of the French are Rebels (tho a good number of them went Imp too) and a good number of the U.S. Players are Imp.
And most of all most of those Players don't understand that many players are NOT hardcore PvPer's like they are! And after one year of all of that BS many just don't want to deal with the almost one sided PvP and everything that has gone along with it. Really the Imp's on Kauri (and most of the ones leaving are Imp) did it to there damn selfs.
See this is how SOE really screwed up with the NGE. Well not so much SOE but I lay the blame for alot of this BS on Helios. I do remember him from Ultima Online (if anyone recalls he did have The Dread Lord Helios in his sig, Dread Lord being a UO Title) and well Helios is a heavy PvPer, who even back in the UO days did say that he disliked PvE gameplay. Rather then go with the plan of getting more PvE based content out the door, Helios went with systems like the GCW Bases, Restuss and the new GCW system. And all 3 of them well kinda suck.
The Bases for one are not all that fun, we where able on Kauri to hold a Base for 3 days to get the Banners from them. However 3 days is an insane amount of work. And really back in those days the bases where way too easy to change hands. Not only that take the Coro Base, the Imp's get to come down this nice big hill, meaning they have an easyer time of laying mines, shooting down, and the like. The Rebels to get to this base have a River in the way, along with a nice big hill to come up... Really whoever did the Base's and the lay out didn't do a good job in Balancing some of it out.
Then we have Restuss, ok for an 'Event' the Restuss Battle was fun. However that was just it! It was one big battle that happen in game and then turned into a PvP Zone. The Rewards are too long to get and suck in the end, well unless your a Commando or Jedi. Still it's a shame, it can take a few days to get the 500 Comms, and most of the reward weapons just suck. The Restuss Crusader Armor is imho a crime, both the Imp and Rebel look good and are the non-BH/Commando's Mando Armor. Yet the stats suck (not too bad if your a Smuggler but still...)
And lastly we have the GCW system, now anyone know why the 'old' GCW system had fans? It was both PvP and PvE based. The new system for any of the Officer Ranks you need to live, breath and eat killing NPC Rebels/Imps (or TIE's/X-WIngs) or live, breath and eat PvP. And with the Decay and the like, it just doesn't work! It's a shame cuz the ideas and rewards are nice. But hell I feel bad for any server that is one sided... And all of this was Helios ideas...
Now Smedley lets face it he is a Corp Suit, most lie about 99% of the time... Tell the truth I don't know how much input he has in SWG, but for the most part I don't really give a damn. Helios was the one that 'should' have been pushing what the Dev's are trying to do now. Rather then trying to make SWG into Planetside with two factions, no Tanks or Aircraft and Jedi's.
Lmao. Fish, you defend your boy however you want, but for a Star Wars MMO (the ONLY Star Wars MMO) to have the pathetically LOW amount of players it does takes an extraordinary amount of screwing up.
The game is essentially THE SAME as it was in November, 2005. Bugged, choppy, incomplete, and in a Beta state that one shouldn't expect to have to PAY TO PLAY. Sadly, you feel the need to come here to us and justify Smedley and the development team that can't seem to get a small patch out sooner than every 6 months... Like I said, you want to justify the suckage of this game then tell your new friends to FIX THE GAME.
Adding a crap version of Creature Handler isn't fixing the game... SWG is an inferior version of most any MMO one can play and runs like a bunch of high school Basic-A programmers are writing the code. I'm sorry, the team may be nice guys, but the product they are delivering is a joke, and it's still in Beta, after 4 years.
Let's also not forget track record, history, missleadings that happend prior. Also let's not forget how many times they said "This will not change" and then -- well, they did. I cannot count how many things they have said and done different. They have said bold face to people at Fan Fests and Summits things that were utter false or did not come to pass. Deadmeat is a filler at this point. Blix.. WAS INVOLVED AND SUPPORTED THE NGE... do not forget this... DO NOT FORGET he argued it and how great it was to us at the summits. DO NOT FORGET this is the same person that said loot was broken, the FRS was coming and that the new Ranger class will be great. DO NOT FORGET how many people quit or got fired due to this products success and failure. These are not made up -- these are facts. No opinion, just facts. When the freaking creator of the game leaves... do you just not get how this will end up???? Guys... IF HE jumps off the Titanic then I mean come on.... use some logic here. Again.... sinking ship. Logic.... I sometimes feel this is like defending Hitler. We all know what he did, we all know how bad he was... yet some people followed him. I just don't get it.
Sadly being nice and rosey just does not work with the current SWG playerbase. Most of them need a whap up the side of the head to see things. I wish I could be forgiven like this product has for anything I did wrong in my life though. I'd be a bazillionare! Also maybe have like 9 wives, 28 cars and 5 houses.
I mean this market needs to be farmed from SOE bigtime. They need to sell RL land in game, cars, investments... because if they can get people to pay for the product based on it's success alone then they sure as Hell could get them to pay for bag of Mud and name it pudding.
I just hope that this is not the future leadership of the US... thats all I can think of atm.
_________________________________________________________ lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
Toon Town > SWG Lmao. Fish, you defend your boy however you want, but for a Star Wars MMO (the ONLY Star Wars MMO) to have the pathetically LOW amount of players it does takes an extraordinary amount of screwing up. The game is essentially THE SAME as it was in November, 2005. Bugged, choppy, incomplete, and in a Beta state that one shouldn't expect to have to PAY TO PLAY. Sadly, you feel the need to come here to us and justify Smedley and the development team that can't seem to get a small patch out sooner than every 6 months... Like I said, you want to justify the suckage of this game then tell your new friends to FIX THE GAME. Adding a crap version of Creature Handler isn't fixing the game... SWG is an inferior version of most any MMO one can play and runs like a bunch of high school Basic-A programmers are writing the code. I'm sorry, the team may be nice guys, but the product they are delivering is a joke, and it's still in Beta, after 4 years.
Sad is it not? I mean Star Wars -- one of the biggest franchises ever in history...
And then Toon Town, a game that is not even sold in stores and is kid based, barely advertised and by all means not all 8-10 year olds have computers, granted both mine do but still.
It is bug free and smooth. I am almosst ashamed of this fact, due to myself as having played both products and seeing which one is better. I mean really... Toon Town does not over promise or under deliver, it did not lie to its customer base over and over, it did not take out somthing in the name of complexity, it did not assume that people did not need to read or experience somthing, it did not force 200k worth of customers to leave in anger and frustration due to product change 3 times.
In short.. they did not ruin thier product in the midst of marketing or greed.
How sad is that?
_________________________________________________________ lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
Fish, I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around. And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either. Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today. They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left. I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you. I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
Fish, you answered every1 cept me. And we fought the same battles. I can only suppose that SWG knows of the pending litigation and every1 and any1 associated can not say a word knowing that anything and everything will be used against SOE.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
By far, most people do not want a server merge. The remaining customers are not screaming for them - it's the same five people and then far more disagree with them. DeadMeast explained why they won't do it -- it's because it would upset communities and the playerbase in general. They would rather concentrate on getting more players. Now again he might be lying, but I have no reason to believe he is.
I'll say, without any reservation, that if Deadmeat gave that as the reason behind not doing server merges, he is lying. I don't believe they had such a change of heart within a week (the time between Smed posting they needed to "fasttrack" server merges and Jake Neri announcing server merges weren't happening this year). The game has less than half the subscribers it had prior to the NGE, I don't think the folks at SOE or LEC are so divorced from reality to believe there is going to be a large enough increase in subscriptions to make the current number of servers viable.
If Deadmeat had used the fact that ten times less players, in the same area, causes ten times the lag it did before the NGE, as the reason, I might have given him the benefit of the doubt. As things stand, I'll call him a liar, without an reservation. I'll also point out that the fact that he is willing to lie over such an insignificant thing, means he will almost certainly lie over bigger issues. Just offering you a heads up.
So they are lying when they say something you choose not to believe but they speak the truth when it squares with your view. Gotcha.
Comments
Also Fish, the housing demolition was a joke... All one has to do to keep their housing is log for a day and pay 3 years of maintenance. You can't tell me that every building standing has active players along with it... Not even 1/10th of them do, even to this day.
You're getting to be as bad as the fanbios that troll our forum dude...
Fish,
I know your trying to turn over a new leaf, but this is me your talking to now. We BOTH were on the SWG forums over the C6 Combat Downgrade, agreeing on pretty much everything. That HAD NOTHING to do about bringing the old game back. It had to do with making combat nothing more than a very poorly done WoW clone with so many bugs, you can't hardly get in a speeder for rubber banding. IE Parry, Dodge, etc etc. Beast Master may have actually had something to do with bringing back the old game, but they destroyed it and it's impact with another MASSIVE game change to a stat system the entire game revolved around.
And you have to know that their so called, claimed, 100K subs is also fantasy. They release the numbers for the GCW, you know, the so called end game with all the best buffs / items in the game. Out of 26 (TWENTY-SIX) servers, there is a little over 11000 taking part in the GCW. If you look at their boards, they think jedi are running around everywhere? THERE are a little over 3000 jedi taking part in the GCW on 26 servers! That ends up being about 120 per EACH AND EVERY SERVER. NOW, count all the people that have toons on 2 to 4 different servers. Count the traders and ent alts that are in the GCW. Count all the alts in the GCW, I know of several on kauri and it is nothing more than a ghost server. AND, count the 700 demotions, probably players that left or are leaving after the LAST exedus with C6. I am very aware that my toon is 1 of the demotions, cause, I don't have a sub anymore, either.
Some1 quoted the forum numbers. You very well know that I tracked these numbers after C6. The 15,600 number came right after C5. It went down to about 9 to 10K before C6. At C6, it went up to 10K, just a little, for the 14 day returning vet trials and 3 weeks later, it lost 1/2 of its total. Or don't you remember all the posts of, "well, I thought I'd come back for a look but it still sucks"? Held at around 5000 for another 2 weeks and fell to 1000 to 2000, where it is today.
They continue to lose subs. Look at the PVE difficulty boards if any1 wants confirmation. The community is so spilt over there, it's incredible. AND SOE fosters this! The ONLY reason that there are 3 servers with any type of population, is that every1 is transfering from the ghost servers to those 3. Look at the Kauri threads and see all kinds of goodbye, cya on bloodfin posts. And, SOE puts 50 to 100 bucks in their pockets every time 1 of these take place. Talk about maximizing their profits. It's now, drain every penny from what ever clientel we have left.
I know you are trying to have a positive outlook for the game now and if you can, more power to you. But out and out lies from SOE is not going to spin the facts that they have destroyed this game over and over again. They haven't learned anything and its just a matter of time before they do it again. The only constant in SWG is, if you like it they will find some way to alienate you.
I too, can't wait for the hopefully Kotor online and Star Trek Online.
fishermagi let me tell u this much at one time i used to respect u. when all the little nge fanbois where running their mouths on the forums u where the one that came out & told them to shut it & told soe what they had to do. namely roll the game back to the pre-cu and repay those of us that got screwed over by them.
so u got to met some of the dev's & maybe they are good guys but they are clueless as to what we want & how to run swg. 300k players told them that they did not want cu or nge. we told them by quitting that we want pre-cu. we told them that we already had the best content in any game like the village & now look at what chapter 7 is. it sucks & no one likes it or wants it. we even told them that we did not want jtls but they wasted more time working on something people played for 2 days & then stopped doing.
fisher please ur a leader & people look up to u. drop this whole thing that soe cares about the game & come back to the right side to the side of players that do care bout swg.
All I can say is I hope you are right.
fishermage.blogspot.com
All that shows is people are paying and not playing, which is what I am saying. Are you suggesting that people paid for a month JUST for the sake of revenge? Hmmm. Interesting.
Obviously you are not reading what I am actually writing, because you seem to be inferring things I am not implying. You also in a weird way are merely confirming what I actually AM saying.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Please don't lie about me. I was always against a rollback (except for about the first six weeks of the NGE), because I am against people screwing people over -- at a certain point, to roll the game back would be just as unethical to the current playerbase as the CUNGE was to us -- two, three wrongs don't make a right.
I was and always have advocated classic servers. Short of that, I have next in line advocated making the current game better by incorporating things from the original game -- make crafted better than loot, bring back hybridization, diversity, TKA, Crature Handler, and stop lying to players by keeping your word over time.
To a CERTAIN extent, SOE has done that in the last two publishes. Now, does this mean I trust them. Hell no. Does it mean I like what they are doing now? yes, in context.
Now I have gotten to meet them and yeah, I like some of them more than I did when they were just concepts to me. I STILL don't like their boss, Smedley. I still don't trust him, not as far as I can throw him (which probably isn't very far hehehe cheap shot I know).
Sorry to have lost your respect but I am still the same person, very little has changed, but the game has to some extent and to that extent I am acknowledging it.
Sadly no one looks up to me any longer (if they ever really did), now that I have broken from the established dogma and the religion around here. Now I have been anathamatized and whereas I find it somewhat amusing, I mostly find it sad. One finds out who ones real friends are (and who are not) when that friendship depends on one's subscription to a certain faith. reminds me of some fundamentalists I argue scripture with.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Good luck fish.
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade."
We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
fishermage.blogspot.com
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
fishermage.blogspot.com
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
You have posted that you think the game is more profitable now, as opposed to pre-NGE. That is the reason you think SOE/LEC refuses to offer a classic server. I disagree with that, as my previous posts have explained, including the reasons why I feel the way I do. You have then chalked up the negativity of the current game to folks hating the NGE/SOE, which I also disagreed with, and explained why. I've read what you've posted, and offered counter-arguments.
You're pointing to a much smaller development team, on which doesn't include a team working on an expansion as the team comprised of 70 people does, as a reason SWG is more profitable now, than it was prior to the NGE. I posted that I feel the smaller team indicates the game isn't as profitable as it once was, and point out the lack of an upcoming expansion as further evidence the current number of subscribers, along with the smaller development team, doesn't necessarily translate into more profit.
I'd disagree with things being better than when the NGE launched, since I saw fewer players on both Bria and Sunrunner, than I did in May of 2006, when I finally canceled my account (It expired June 27, 2006, exactly three years after opening it). From what I saw just a few days ago, if SWG has seen a turnaround in subscription numbers, it is from a severe lowpoint achieved sometime last year.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
No server merge because LucasArts said no. Not because they don't think the game needs them, but because they are still pissed off over the fallout from the NGE. The NGE was meant to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The folks at LucasArts being pissed off is a likely reason many needed changes aren't going to happen, as opposed to anyone at SOE learning a lesson from the NGE. Would you really trust anyone at SOE, when they tell you something will improve the game, after they said the NGE was a good thing? I think the folks at LEC are a bit gunshy about future SWG developments.
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
You have posted that you think the game is more profitable now, as opposed to pre-NGE. That is the reason you think SOE/LEC refuses to offer a classic server. I disagree with that, as my previous posts have explained, including the reasons why I feel the way I do. You have then chalked up the negativity of the current game to folks hating the NGE/SOE, which I also disagreed with, and explained why. I've read what you've posted, and offered counter-arguments.
You're pointing to a much smaller development team, on which doesn't include a team working on an expansion as the team comprised of 70 people does, as a reason SWG is more profitable now, than it was prior to the NGE. I posted that I feel the smaller team indicates the game isn't as profitable as it once was, and point out the lack of an upcoming expansion as further evidence the current number of subscribers, along with the smaller development team, doesn't necessarily translate into more profit.
I'd disagree with things being better than when the NGE launched, since I saw fewer players on both Bria and Sunrunner, than I did in May of 2006, when I finally canceled my account (It expired June 27, 2006, exactly three years after opening it). From what I saw just a few days ago, if SWG has seen a turnaround in subscription numbers, it is from a severe lowpoint achieved sometime last year.
Well, just have to agree to disagree then. You haven't offerend a single counter-argument for anything I have actually said. I am not saying that anything TRANSLATES into more profit, any more than anything YOU say translates into less profit. All I can say is I think you've got your facts wrong and leave it at that.
All I can say is that on Intrepid, Bloodfin and all the servers I play on, there are more people now than when the NGE caused the great crash.
You are free to percieve things differently. All I can say to that is those of us who have been playing all along have a better vantage point from which to speak.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
By far, most people do not want a server merge. The remaining customers are not screaming for them - it's the same five people and then far more disagree with them. DeadMeast explained why they won't do it -- it's because it would upset communities and the playerbase in general. They would rather concentrate on getting more players. Now again he might be lying, but I have no reason to believe he is.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
No server merge because LucasArts said no. Not because they don't think the game needs them, but because they are still pissed off over the fallout from the NGE. The NGE was meant to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The folks at LucasArts being pissed off is a likely reason many needed changes aren't going to happen, as opposed to anyone at SOE learning a lesson from the NGE. Would you really trust anyone at SOE, when they tell you something will improve the game, after they said the NGE was a good thing? I think the folks at LEC are a bit gunshy about future SWG developments.
I have seen no evidence that LEC said no, and from what I've seen it was a decision from the SOE end of things. Again what you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what I have observed.
From what I have seen LEC and SOE finally now have a good working relationship -- probably the first time since the CU.
fishermage.blogspot.com
SWG had a team working on expansion from the day it was launched, until a couple months after the NGE went live. An expansion that was being worked on was canceled, due to the number of people who canceled because of the NGE. It has been said, by SWG developers, that there will be no further expansions for the game in the foreseeable future. Why would SOE cancel an expansion they had been working on, fire or move the developers working on it, and decide to not work on an expansion for the foreseeable future, if the game is more profitable than it was when they were working on expansions?
The NGE was supposed to increase the subscription numbers, not decimate them. The failure of the NGE caused an expansion to be canceled and the development staff to be cut drastically. At the GDC, last year, the folks from SOE said they were taken by surprise by the number of people that quit due to the NGE. They told their peers to avoid making the mistake they had made, the NGE. If the NGE made the game more profitable, none of those things would have happened. There would have been an expansion released six months ago, and the folks at SOE would be crowing about how great a move it was to do the NGE. If the NGE had succeeded, the foks at SOE would be much more humble in their public discourse towards the folks who quit because of the NGE. They would tout the fact that the NGE had increased the game's profitability, while regretting the fact that it alienated the folks who quit. They don't do that, they acknowledge that the NGE was a mistake, one they will not repeat, and then try and sugarcoat whatever it is that they are trying to promote.
The NGE was a big enough failure that Flying Labs Studios felt the need to address it whenthey announced SOE was going to publish Pirates of the Burning Sea. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it when Sigil announced they had signed on with SOE to publish their game, after Microsoft dumped them like a ton of bricks. The NGE was a big enough failure that John Smedley felt the need to address it, once again, when it was announced that SOE had acquired Sigil and their assets. The NGE was such a failure that John Smedley feels the need to address it almost every time he does an interview. If the NGE had been a success, which making the game more profitable would have made it, SOE being a business and all, we wouldn't be hearing folks from SOE, from John Smedley down to folks like Virrago (he said it on the OBoards), claim they learned their lesson from the NGE and would never do anything like it again.
The failure of the NGE is why SWG and Vanguard, two games that need to be completely revamped, will not recieve their necessary revamps. SWG is currently a horrible game, the worst MMO I've ever played. It has only 20 people working on it, not because it is so great that 20 people is all it requires, but because 20 people is the most that can be allocated to the game to make it profitable. If the subscription numbers does another large drop, the number of developers will likely shrink even further, and major publishes will go from every four months to ever six months.
It isn't about hating the game, or SOE, it is about looking at what has been done and said over the past year and nine months. The current development team doesn't even have a vision of where they would like the game to be by the end of the year, outside of their management mandated re-adding deleted content to appeal to former players, since trying to attract new players failed so miserably all of last year.
Lack of developers and re-adding content , in an extremely WoWishly mangled way, that was deemed to be not 'Star Warsy' or 'Iconic' enough for a Star Wars MMO, is not a sign of things being better than they used to be.
I never said things are better than they used to be (if by used to be you mean pre-NGE. Things are obviously better than when the NGE was launched, however). I will say it again, if I could have pre-CU I would be there. That has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing -- that is another discussion for another context. Also, nothing you are saying contradicts anything I've said, just as with Esquire. Folks just aren't really reading what i am writing at all. Oh well, nothing new there.
You have posted that you think the game is more profitable now, as opposed to pre-NGE. That is the reason you think SOE/LEC refuses to offer a classic server. I disagree with that, as my previous posts have explained, including the reasons why I feel the way I do. You have then chalked up the negativity of the current game to folks hating the NGE/SOE, which I also disagreed with, and explained why. I've read what you've posted, and offered counter-arguments.
You're pointing to a much smaller development team, on which doesn't include a team working on an expansion as the team comprised of 70 people does, as a reason SWG is more profitable now, than it was prior to the NGE. I posted that I feel the smaller team indicates the game isn't as profitable as it once was, and point out the lack of an upcoming expansion as further evidence the current number of subscribers, along with the smaller development team, doesn't necessarily translate into more profit.
I'd disagree with things being better than when the NGE launched, since I saw fewer players on both Bria and Sunrunner, than I did in May of 2006, when I finally canceled my account (It expired June 27, 2006, exactly three years after opening it). From what I saw just a few days ago, if SWG has seen a turnaround in subscription numbers, it is from a severe lowpoint achieved sometime last year.
Well, just have to agree to disagree then. You haven't offerend a single counter-argument for anything I have actually said. I am not saying that anything TRANSLATES into more profit, any more than anything YOU say translates into less profit. All I can say is I think you've got your facts wrong and leave it at that. All I can say is that on Intrepid, Bloodfin and all the servers I play on, there are more people now than when the NGE caused the great crash. You are free to percieve things differently. All I can say to that is those of us who have been playing all along have a better vantage point from which to speak.
Fair enough. I'll still say that the reduction in developers and lack of expansions are proof the game is doing worse than pre-NGE. I'll also not my recent free vet trial has made me think the game is actually worse than it was a year ago, and has fewer players, at least on Sunrunner, and Bria, which was the only server to maintain the label of "Heavy" both times I logged in (I went ot the character creation screen before logging in my existing characters). Bloodfin was listed as "Medium" and "Heavy" the four times I checked (I logged one character each on both servers during the afternoon and later in the evening, the evening time just to see the difference in population, since I was appalled by the game itself the first time I logged in). I didn't look at what Intrepid was labeled as, though I know it was less then "Heavy" both times.
The game itself is horrible, and even having a Star Wars skin isn't enough to make me understand why there are people who voluntarily pay actual money to play it. It is actually worse than I remember it being when I quit just over a year ago, which surprised me. The current game is the worst MMO I've ever played, which includes the game I quit over a year ago (or at least the game I thought I remembered, considering you and a few others claim the current game is better). SWG, as it currently exists, needs a complete revamp. Unfortunately, the abysmal failure of the NGE has caused SOE and LEC to thing that the revamps themselves are the problem, rather than taking an existing game and making it much, much worse through a revamp. As always, since the launch of SWG, the wrong lessons are learned, even when the right ones are being shoved in the developer's faces.
And in the end, after all the banter, all the crap and all the discussion.
Disney Toon Town Online has more subs and a better product then SWG will ever be again.
That is the real sad part.
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lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
By far, most people do not want a server merge. The remaining customers are not screaming for them - it's the same five people and then far more disagree with them. DeadMeast explained why they won't do it -- it's because it would upset communities and the playerbase in general. They would rather concentrate on getting more players. Now again he might be lying, but I have no reason to believe he is.
I'll say, without any reservation, that if Deadmeat gave that as the reason behind not doing server merges, he is lying. I don't believe they had such a change of heart within a week (the time between Smed posting they needed to "fasttrack" server merges and Jake Neri announcing server merges weren't happening this year). The game has less than half the subscribers it had prior to the NGE, I don't think the folks at SOE or LEC are so divorced from reality to believe there is going to be a large enough increase in subscriptions to make the current number of servers viable.
If Deadmeat had used the fact that ten times less players, in the same area, causes ten times the lag it did before the NGE, as the reason, I might have given him the benefit of the doubt. As things stand, I'll call him a liar, without an reservation. I'll also point out that the fact that he is willing to lie over such an insignificant thing, means he will almost certainly lie over bigger issues. Just offering you a heads up.
http://www.drphil.com/
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
I don't know if you play Kauri, but that is my home server so let me just say what is kinda going on with it.Kauri became a PvP Heavy Server last year like most due to Helios believing PvP was the end all 'content' that the Player Base wanted. Now I'm not a big time PvPer, I believe PvP has a 'place' in an MMO but unless the MMO is made with PvP as the sole idea of the game like Planetside or Shadowbane, you've going to have PvE Players and really non hardcore PvPer's trying to get into it. Anyway at the start of the NGE till about August of last year Kauri was a big Rebel Server, well even before that. But that was mostly due to a guild (FS) having tons of Jedi Players in the Pre-CU and CU.
Now yes the Rebels did out number the Imp's by a good number, however I should note that battles where mostly even. And well we had a TON of stupid Rebel PvPer's as well. Namely guys who rather then wait for the battle to come to them would lead half our force, get them killed and then whine when we lost. I should note that 'many' of the Players that would do that, and a good number of Rebels and Imp's where Elder Jedi's as well.
Still around August of last year 4 well known Rebels had come back to the server and rejoined one of Kauri's bigger Rebel Guilds. What we didn't know at the time was those 4 had run off when the NGE came out to Guild Wars and had started talking to the Leader and a few members of another Kauri Imp Guild and had decided to come back. Now as much as they brag that they didn't do anything wrong, they did claim they where back and "Rebels for good" and where given a good amount of items, credits and I believe someone did take one of them from 80 to 90. Anyway one day out of the blue they just quit and went Imp and joined this guild and that's where alot of this starts...
See what they may or may not have known was many Imp Players where also returning at that time as well. Also rather then it just be 'them' they did talk a number of Rebels into going Imp and joining up with them. If you really read the forums you will see that many of those Players insult and trash talk anyone that is not a PvPer. Infact they stuck up for a known Grief Player who was banned and talked the Player who got this Player banned into gettting said Grief Player unbanned, namely due to the fact that this Griefer was Imp and a good PvPer. Infact they did bring that up when talking about it. Any Rebel Leader that tried to come along was just flamed and insulted and they did run one of them off. Not only that it just became one big flame war with many of the Imp's, if the Rebels won one battle one night, then they would scream about how they got out numbered or the like on the Kauri Forums.
There are some other colorful things many of those Imp Players did as well, a joint Rebel/Imp Events thing was planned out, the idea being that trying to mend some fences and work with one another would keep the server alive. However one returning Player (another Rebel who went Imp) flamed anyone on the forums about it, and in the end killed it and got his own events going. The Imp's would gladly call in anyone base busting or report anyone they could. However if someone did it to them, dear god it was "Who did it!?!" and whoever did was insulted to high hell.
And not only that the Imp's rather then try to keep things somewhat balanced in order to have good PvP fights did everything in their power to make it one sided. Be it from getting Rebels to go Imp, flaming Rebels on the Forums, insulting and trash talking in game, and talking about how the Rebels out number them. With Kauri that is somewhat true as most of the server is made up of French Players in the day, at night you have more U.S. Players. Most of the French are Rebels (tho a good number of them went Imp too) and a good number of the U.S. Players are Imp.
And most of all most of those Players don't understand that many players are NOT hardcore PvPer's like they are! And after one year of all of that BS many just don't want to deal with the almost one sided PvP and everything that has gone along with it. Really the Imp's on Kauri (and most of the ones leaving are Imp) did it to there damn selfs.
See this is how SOE really screwed up with the NGE. Well not so much SOE but I lay the blame for alot of this BS on Helios. I do remember him from Ultima Online (if anyone recalls he did have The Dread Lord Helios in his sig, Dread Lord being a UO Title) and well Helios is a heavy PvPer, who even back in the UO days did say that he disliked PvE gameplay. Rather then go with the plan of getting more PvE based content out the door, Helios went with systems like the GCW Bases, Restuss and the new GCW system. And all 3 of them well kinda suck.
The Bases for one are not all that fun, we where able on Kauri to hold a Base for 3 days to get the Banners from them. However 3 days is an insane amount of work. And really back in those days the bases where way too easy to change hands. Not only that take the Coro Base, the Imp's get to come down this nice big hill, meaning they have an easyer time of laying mines, shooting down, and the like. The Rebels to get to this base have a River in the way, along with a nice big hill to come up... Really whoever did the Base's and the lay out didn't do a good job in Balancing some of it out.
Then we have Restuss, ok for an 'Event' the Restuss Battle was fun. However that was just it! It was one big battle that happen in game and then turned into a PvP Zone. The Rewards are too long to get and suck in the end, well unless your a Commando or Jedi. Still it's a shame, it can take a few days to get the 500 Comms, and most of the reward weapons just suck. The Restuss Crusader Armor is imho a crime, both the Imp and Rebel look good and are the non-BH/Commando's Mando Armor. Yet the stats suck (not too bad if your a Smuggler but still...)
And lastly we have the GCW system, now anyone know why the 'old' GCW system had fans? It was both PvP and PvE based. The new system for any of the Officer Ranks you need to live, breath and eat killing NPC Rebels/Imps (or TIE's/X-WIngs) or live, breath and eat PvP. And with the Decay and the like, it just doesn't work! It's a shame cuz the ideas and rewards are nice. But hell I feel bad for any server that is one sided... And all of this was Helios ideas...
Now Smedley lets face it he is a Corp Suit, most lie about 99% of the time... Tell the truth I don't know how much input he has in SWG, but for the most part I don't really give a damn. Helios was the one that 'should' have been pushing what the Dev's are trying to do now. Rather then trying to make SWG into Planetside with two factions, no Tanks or Aircraft and Jedi's.
Toon Town > SWG
Lmao. Fish, you defend your boy however you want, but for a Star Wars MMO (the ONLY Star Wars MMO) to have the pathetically LOW amount of players it does takes an extraordinary amount of screwing up.
The game is essentially THE SAME as it was in November, 2005. Bugged, choppy, incomplete, and in a Beta state that one shouldn't expect to have to PAY TO PLAY. Sadly, you feel the need to come here to us and justify Smedley and the development team that can't seem to get a small patch out sooner than every 6 months... Like I said, you want to justify the suckage of this game then tell your new friends to FIX THE GAME.
Adding a crap version of Creature Handler isn't fixing the game... SWG is an inferior version of most any MMO one can play and runs like a bunch of high school Basic-A programmers are writing the code. I'm sorry, the team may be nice guys, but the product they are delivering is a joke, and it's still in Beta, after 4 years.
http://www.drphil.com/
lol even I can laugh at that.
Sadly being nice and rosey just does not work with the current SWG playerbase. Most of them need a whap up the side of the head to see things. I wish I could be forgiven like this product has for anything I did wrong in my life though. I'd be a bazillionare! Also maybe have like 9 wives, 28 cars and 5 houses.
I mean this market needs to be farmed from SOE bigtime. They need to sell RL land in game, cars, investments... because if they can get people to pay for the product based on it's success alone then they sure as Hell could get them to pay for bag of Mud and name it pudding.
I just hope that this is not the future leadership of the US... thats all I can think of atm.
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lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
And then Toon Town, a game that is not even sold in stores and is kid based, barely advertised and by all means not all 8-10 year olds have computers, granted both mine do but still.
It is bug free and smooth. I am almosst ashamed of this fact, due to myself as having played both products and seeing which one is better. I mean really... Toon Town does not over promise or under deliver, it did not lie to its customer base over and over, it did not take out somthing in the name of complexity, it did not assume that people did not need to read or experience somthing, it did not force 200k worth of customers to leave in anger and frustration due to product change 3 times.
In short.. they did not ruin thier product in the midst of marketing or greed.
How sad is that?
_________________________________________________________
lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
Good luck fish.
There's nothing to actually answer there. Nothing in your post even remotely contradicts anything I've said. The only disagreement we would have is they are still gaining subs as a net gain, in spite of the 'combat downgrade." We;ll see if it holds out after the summer.
I just took a look at the Kauri boards. 3 more goodbyes, not just moves this time, but I'm outta here kind of posts. I knew 2 of them. You know that the GCW is about all the end game content and that most 90's, not all but most, are involved in the GCW somewhat. The rewards are good and the buffs are expecially needed now in PVE. You also know that there is little if not no new players joining the game. I also talked to a day 1 elder tonight on the telephone, we were co-leaders in Cobra until the guild got too small and we merged it with another, and he is leaving too. 8 accounts gone there. And, that is just sad. He wanted to know the server I'm on in WoW.
There is no way there is 100K subs. That statement is totally misleading. If I had to estimate, I would guess 20,000 and that is giving them the benifit of the doubt. There is no way that they are gaining subs either. Even at the housing purge, Virrago makes a post that "This is what happens when 10K people log on at once......"(talking about the lag of 6 minutes before the house you destroyed actually blew up) and that number happened to co-incide perfectly with the forums numbers BTW. They have fed you a load, my friend. This spin is nothing more than to lure people back to a game that, per their spin, is doing good again so they can count returning vets trial accounts, again.
What you really need to ask you new found friends is, Why not a server merge that the remaining customers are screaming for? Then, why not a Pre-CU, CU, and NGE C5 classic servers with the 16 to 20 empty servers they have left? They are the 1s who made 3 different disgruntled player bases. Then, you might see a upsurge in subs, and just about only then. Read what people are saying here. If you want to help them, that probably the way to do it. I would think that if they wait until EMU, KOTOR, and STO come out, they will never get any1 back and most of their 20K will beat feet.
By far, most people do not want a server merge. The remaining customers are not screaming for them - it's the same five people and then far more disagree with them. DeadMeast explained why they won't do it -- it's because it would upset communities and the playerbase in general. They would rather concentrate on getting more players. Now again he might be lying, but I have no reason to believe he is.
I'll say, without any reservation, that if Deadmeat gave that as the reason behind not doing server merges, he is lying. I don't believe they had such a change of heart within a week (the time between Smed posting they needed to "fasttrack" server merges and Jake Neri announcing server merges weren't happening this year). The game has less than half the subscribers it had prior to the NGE, I don't think the folks at SOE or LEC are so divorced from reality to believe there is going to be a large enough increase in subscriptions to make the current number of servers viable.
If Deadmeat had used the fact that ten times less players, in the same area, causes ten times the lag it did before the NGE, as the reason, I might have given him the benefit of the doubt. As things stand, I'll call him a liar, without an reservation. I'll also point out that the fact that he is willing to lie over such an insignificant thing, means he will almost certainly lie over bigger issues. Just offering you a heads up.
So they are lying when they say something you choose not to believe but they speak the truth when it squares with your view. Gotcha.
fishermage.blogspot.com