The two major bullets to the announcement that really stand out are the Death Knights and Siege Weapons. The new zones, items, dungeons, and monsters (How many renamed and re-colored Murlocs must we deal with) are nice additions but, to be honest, those are to be expected in patches as well as
Im a bit upset about this statement... seen any murlocs in BC?
One of the positive thinks on WOW and Blizzard is that they create some own kind of Monsters... In the old WOW, in BC and surely there will be new kind of Enemys in LICH KING!
I found it always some more creative than just a "Tolkien Copy"-Design.
Will use a rune resource System!!!!!!!?!?!?!?! How Rediculous i mean has anyone ever heard of the game runescape?? well in RUNEscape they have these tablets called RUNES that are used to do spells and now BLIZZARD! is going to make a rune resource system wow, omg , wow but i mean MMOs' have been coping other mmo games ideas from the beging because they can no longer decide on what should belong in THEIR game.
What else is new, from copying Warhammer, Runescape is next. And oh i forgot something, the in-game voice chat, they copied DDO. for Pete's sake.
I'm hoping the next thing Blizzard will copy is Vanguard, no make it DnL.
One of the positive thinks on WOW and Blizzard is that they create some own kind of Monsters... In the old WOW, in BC and surely there will be new kind of Enemys in LICH KING! I found it always some more creative than just a "Tolkien Copy"-Design.
The whole Warcraft universe is a rip off of Warhammer man
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Some of these complaints are deserved.. however some are just.. pathetic.. to the fool who said Blizzard ripped off DDO by implementing VOIP, think before you make such a ridiculous statement. So DDO developed that sort of technology did it? No. You could say they stole off games like Battlefield 2 or Counter Strike Source? Did they? No.
It's just one of the various technical utilities that have become available, and because Blizzard does something smart and implements it, they are ripping off another company?
Yea. Right.
I would buy this expansion if they didn't raise the level cap. The grinding is one of the only things that keep people going in this game, by adding more levels and pathetically long quest chains to unlock new content Blizzard is achieving their goal. Keeping people playing. It isn't Blizzard's fault that you had to run Kara a gazillion times to get that one piece of gear, it is simply your own. You decided you wanted it and decided you would stop at nothing to get it, not Blizzard.
However that said, the way the game is structured almost forces you to have the best gear to compete with others, which is rediculously time consuming in itself. When I play a game I do it for fun, not to slave or work away for something that will not and will never benefit me off the monitor.
The game still has a lot of potential, Blizzard just seems to refuse to tap into that, adding more levels is forcing players to go through a process many find repetitive as hell. I would love to see a more solid way to level up via PvP in the game, and why not some quests to earn bonus talent points? Introduce some more world campaigns in which players can participate for gear?
Also, many MMO's release massive upgrades to their game worlds every few months, the most Blizzard does is add a new instance that a small percentage of subscribers will see, we see balance issues crop up all the time, and yet it is slowly becoming worse in this aspect.
World of Warcraft was a great game and to many still is, but I just feel in the 3 years I have played the game Blizzard has slowly been nailing it's coffin shut with a lack of community communication and continued desire to stick to narrow minded content that neither benefits themselves or the community.
EDIT: I saw a post a while ago talking about risk, reward, and so on somewhere on these boards, and it said WoW only implements one of these, which is reward. When you offer players only one such thing to play for, in Warcraft's choice, reward, many people have little incentive to play for nothing other than that, and there is a lack of fun factor (although, many enjoy that kind of competition..) Anyone remember the old days of Alterac Valley? Those epic battles that went on for hours? I lived to play those kind of battles, absolutely loved them. Now, I'm lucky to even see the Hippogriffs start flying again.
Originally posted by Flodgy Some of these complaints are deserved.. however some are just.. pathetic.. to the fool who said Blizzard ripped off DDO by implementing VOIP, think before you make such a ridiculous statement. So DDO developed that sort of technology did it? No. You could say they stole off games like Battlefield 2 or Counter Strike Source? Did they? No. It's just one of the various technical utilities that have become available, and because Blizzard does something smart and implements it, they are ripping off another company? Yea. Right. I would buy this expansion if they didn't raise the level cap. The grinding is one of the only things that keep people going in this game, by adding more levels and pathetically long quest chains to unlock new content Blizzard is achieving their goal. Keeping people playing. It isn't Blizzard's fault that you had to run Kara a gazillion times to get that one piece of gear, it is simply your own. You decided you wanted it and decided you would stop at nothing to get it, not Blizzard. However that said, the way the game is structured almost forces you to have the best gear to compete with others, which is rediculously time consuming in itself. When I play a game I do it for fun, not to slave or work away for something that will not and will never benefit me off the monitor. The game still has a lot of potential, Blizzard just seems to refuse to tap into that, adding more levels is forcing players to go through a process many find repetitive as hell. I would love to see a more solid way to level up via PvP in the game, and why not some quests to earn bonus talent points? Introduce some more world campaigns in which players can participate for gear? Also, many MMO's release massive upgrades to their game worlds every few months, the most Blizzard does is add a new instance that a small percentage of subscribers will see, we see balance issues crop up all the time, and yet it is slowly becoming worse in this aspect. World of Warcraft was a great game and to many still is, but I just feel in the 3 years I have played the game Blizzard has slowly been nailing it's coffin shut with a lack of community communication and continued desire to stick to narrow minded content that neither benefits themselves or the community. EDIT: I saw a post a while ago talking about risk, reward, and so on somewhere on these boards, and it said WoW only implements one of these, which is reward. When you offer players only one such thing to play for, in Warcraft's choice, reward, many people have little incentive to play for nothing other than that, and there is a lack of fun factor (although, many enjoy that kind of competition..) Anyone remember the old days of Alterac Valley? Those epic battles that went on for hours? I lived to play those kind of battles, absolutely loved them. Now, I'm lucky to even see the Hippogriffs start flying again. The above is my opinion. Not yours. Mmmmk? /end rant.
seriously? What people are talking about is the INTEGRATED voice chat, which was done by turbine for DDO first. Honestly though, I'd rather use vent than integrated voice chat.
And old days of alterac valley? bleh. The only fun I had in WoW pvp was open world pvp at tauren mills before the bg's ruined it.(and the crappy honor system)
Anyone remember the old days of Alterac Valley? Those epic battles that went on for hours? I lived to play those kind of battles, absolutely loved them. Now, I'm lucky to even see the Hippogriffs start flying again. The above is my opinion. Not yours. Mmmmk? /end rant.
That was good old days indeed(Zenedar) when PvP really meant something.I remember once we battled for almost 9 hours,I played for 3 hours then took some rest for 4 hours and when I logged in the next day the battle was still on. Tired players were leaving and fresh one joined in on both side.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Some of these complaints are deserved.. however some are just.. pathetic.. to the fool who said Blizzard ripped off DDO by implementing VOIP, think before you make such a ridiculous statement. So DDO developed that sort of technology did it? No. You could say they stole off games like Battlefield 2 or Counter Strike Source? Did they? No.
It's just one of the various technical utilities that have become available, and because Blizzard does something smart and implements it, they are ripping off another company?
Yea. Right.
I would buy this expansion if they didn't raise the level cap. The grinding is one of the only things that keep people going in this game, by adding more levels and pathetically long quest chains to unlock new content Blizzard is achieving their goal. Keeping people playing. It isn't Blizzard's fault that you had to run Kara a gazillion times to get that one piece of gear, it is simply your own. You decided you wanted it and decided you would stop at nothing to get it, not Blizzard.
However that said, the way the game is structured almost forces you to have the best gear to compete with others, which is rediculously time consuming in itself. When I play a game I do it for fun, not to slave or work away for something that will not and will never benefit me off the monitor.
The game still has a lot of potential, Blizzard just seems to refuse to tap into that, adding more levels is forcing players to go through a process many find repetitive as hell. I would love to see a more solid way to level up via PvP in the game, and why not some quests to earn bonus talent points? Introduce some more world campaigns in which players can participate for gear?
Also, many MMO's release massive upgrades to their game worlds every few months, the most Blizzard does is add a new instance that a small percentage of subscribers will see, we see balance issues crop up all the time, and yet it is slowly becoming worse in this aspect.
World of Warcraft was a great game and to many still is, but I just feel in the 3 years I have played the game Blizzard has slowly been nailing it's coffin shut with a lack of community communication and continued desire to stick to narrow minded content that neither benefits themselves or the community.
EDIT: I saw a post a while ago talking about risk, reward, and so on somewhere on these boards, and it said WoW only implements one of these, which is reward. When you offer players only one such thing to play for, in Warcraft's choice, reward, many people have little incentive to play for nothing other than that, and there is a lack of fun factor (although, many enjoy that kind of competition..) Anyone remember the old days of Alterac Valley? Those epic battles that went on for hours? I lived to play those kind of battles, absolutely loved them. Now, I'm lucky to even see the Hippogriffs start flying again.
The above is my opinion. Not yours. Mmmmk?
/end rant.
seriously? What people are talking about is the INTEGRATED voice chat, which was done by turbine for DDO first. Honestly though, I'd rather use vent than integrated voice chat.
And old days of alterac valley? bleh. The only fun I had in WoW pvp was open world pvp at tauren mills before the bg's ruined it.(and the crappy honor system)
Integrated voice chat.. yea.. that is still VOIP (Voice Over IP). Intergrated voice chat is seen in the games I mentioned as well. And no, it was not done first by Turbine in DDO. CSS, BF2 are the two examples I have already given and they came out 2 years before DDO. It makes no difference at all, if anything, it is for the better.
If you'd rather use Vent, good for you, that's your preference, this is Blizzards attempt at making things more compatible and integrated with their game.
Open world PvP was a blast too, and AV was the closest thing we ever had to a proper quest based PvP scenario, and back then it did a pretty good job, but as said. My opinion, and I know for a fact many others share it, just like many share yours.
Overall the Battlegrounds were a disaster with the new honour system, but hell, the damage has been done eh?
Blizzard has really jumped the shark on this one...... Meanwhile SOE continues to refine Everquest 2, and the population continues to grow. Will it ever have 9 million? Nope but as we can see quantity doesn’t mean quality.
Blizzard has really jumped the shark on this one...... Meanwhile SOE continues to refine Everquest 2, and the population continues to grow. Will it ever have 9 million? Nope but as we can see quantity doesn’t mean quality.
Sigh.
Too many people, unexperienced people keep complaining about World of Warcraft being some cheap poor quality game. First of all i'll just say this in reply to martin's post, Blizzard are well known for polishing off their games and that's what makes them the best quality. If you wish to sit here and say SOE can do better then may I direct your attention to SWG and EQ1. Expansion after expansion, aswell as revamps that changed the whole game. That's not polishing is it ? no, it's not.
To the actual topic at hand, I think new expansions are always great as long as the current game is good enough for players to enjoy (no bugs, no exploits, etc). The only reason people are complaining is because they went and completed all the content as fast as they could, rather then enjoying it and thanking blizzard for a wonderful game they've made and kept updated until now.
Let's hope they attempt to have more focus on activties that don't get you items, things that people do for FUN without the reward. This could happen in PvP and maybe for PvE if their designers are smart and know how things work (which I think most are). Implementing siege was a good and bad idea. Yes, it is new content that will keep the PvPers happy but if it isn't designed correctly (ie, outdoors or indoors, timers on using them, overpowered.) they could be digging a hole for PvP.
My 2cents, not urs.
btw at the comment "Blizzard announces World of Warcraft expansion. Chinese gold farmers rejoice. (Let's face it higher levels mean more gold, Burning Crusade proved that)." . We all know quantity doesn't mean everything, it's the demand and time spent getting it which counts. There's no need to be rude.. anywhere.
I immediately stopped playing WoW and cancelled the subscription upon hearing about this expansion. I wasn't impressed at all by The Burning Crusade, and the changes it had brought to all the classes. I played on the Europe servers, and felt the increased level cap had hurt PVP, as it seperated players between those who owned the expansion, and those who did not. This expansion with it's level cap of 80 is a bad idea.
Dark Age of Camelot had a much better approach for bringing new content to high level characters, instead of increasing the level cap and thus seperating players in the PVP field, it introduced champion levels, those who were level 50 and had no champion levels, and those who were level 50 and were champion level 10 could still face one another in RVR. Champion levels did not unbalance the game in anyway, as the abilities gained from each champion level were not as potent as the abilties from the classes.
I do agree with the persont hat said that AV was better before it was nerfed to death. I call that AV Classic (in homage to the New Coke fiasco back in the 80s). I think that Blizzard has spent too much time listening to players and making bad changes. The game was so much better when MC was the only raid, TM and the Crossroads were the sights of huge PvP battles, and there weren't a hundred different factions to grind rep for.
I like the increase of the level cap and that will keep me playing, unless WAR or AOC provide me with more fun for a long period of time.
Hahahahaha, the only crowd dumber than WoW players are the ex-WoW players... hahahaha
Over generalizing much are we?
No, not realy. If you read the posts you can see that WoW players are well aware of shortcomings of WoW and they know why they are playing and why they're having fun. These new fresh baked WoW burnouts are the ones I find rediciluos. I mean, they don't even know how stupid it sounds when someone writes something like "I've been playing this game from beta and I know what I'm talking about, it sucks, it's a grind, it's boring, it's shallow" Man, if it took you 3 years to find out you don't like something while playing it hours and hours every day.... must I say more?
One of the key features of MMO's is to keep rewarding players. Thats why the level cap gets raised, and new equipment gets added. Would you rather have the same equipment and be the same level forever?
Actually, there are alternatives to raising levels, check out DAOC or EVE for examples. How about instead of raising levels, they implement a system to let players cross train some skills in other areas (stupid class based games) or add new skills that can be only achieved from doing PVP, or completing certain pve content? (ala DAOC?)
As to equipment, there are ways to add new equipment that doesn't completely invalidate everything that came before it.... sure DAOC has lots of new gear, yet...some folks are still using player crafted items and TOA weapons and such that were created over 3 years ago. Every expansion doesn't have to be in huge increments..... first release...swords have +5 bonuses, next expansion, bump them up to max of +6.
Out of the box thinking keeps games more creative and fun IMO, which is one reason why I no longer play WOW, since those two elements are sorely missing from my perspective.
The expansion will be more of the same. And why not? Look how many people bought TBC.... which was really more of the same than the new exp will be. Blizzard would be crazy to vary from the formula that has brought so much success thus far.
One day, it will come back to haunt them, and then once people start moving on they'll be more receptive to experimenting with the game model, but for now, don't look for a lot of variety.
People who continue to play WOW all the while claiming to hate this aspect of it, or because they can't find a better game need to realize they are the problem...as long as Blizz gets your sub fee....they don't need to cater to your whims.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Blizzard has really jumped the shark on this one...... Meanwhile SOE continues to refine Everquest 2, and the population continues to grow. Will it ever have 9 million? Nope but as we can see quantity doesn’t mean quality.
Sigh.
Too many people, unexperienced people keep complaining about World of Warcraft being some cheap poor quality game. First of all i'll just say this in reply to martin's post, Blizzard are well known for polishing off their games and that's what makes them the best quality. If you wish to sit here and say SOE can do better then may I direct your attention to SWG and EQ1. Expansion after expansion, aswell as revamps that changed the whole game. That's not polishing is it ? no, it's not.
Sigh.
Another disingenuous response designed to negate an opinion without directly addressing it. The person you responded to specifically said "SOE continues to refine Everquest 2". Everquest 2. Not SWG and EQ1. I don't think anyone refutes that they screwed the pooch with SWG and I suppose EQ1 is subjective, as there's still plenty of people playing it. However, the poster didn't mentione either of those. They specifically mentioned EQ2, which has, by various accounts (ie. player, website and magazines), continued to improve and become more "refined" over time. So if you have a gripe with their comment, at least make sure you have a gripe with it for what they do say, not for what they don't. And before you say it, no, I am not a "SOE fanboy". I've played EQ2 and it doesn't keep my interest, however I acknowledge that the game is enjoying a increase in overall quality and popularity over time, especially compared to its earlier months.
And what's with the "unexperienced" [sic] comment? How do you know the poster's "experience" level with MMOs? Are you incapable of disagreeing without using dismissive comments like that to try and diminish someone else's point-of-view to make yours seem more "right"?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I am a hardcore mmorpg player, but took many breaks from WoW.
What this expeansion will do is even the playing feeld again, between the hardcore and the casual players.
Me like that.
Furthermore, I liked TBC alot, especially to road from 60 to 70 and the new Open World PvP objectives.
Also in the new expansion there will be siege engines and destructible world pvp objectives, I mean yummy, this means that WAR will have to deliver a true RvR game or people will just stick with WoW.
Greetingz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Too many people, unexperienced people keep complaining about World of Warcraft being some cheap poor quality game. First of all i'll just say this in reply to martin's post, Blizzard are well known for polishing off their games and that's what makes them the best quality. If you wish to sit here and say SOE can do better then may I direct your attention to SWG and EQ1. Expansion after expansion, aswell as revamps that changed the whole game. That's not polishing is it ? no, it's not.
Actually SOE is doing better with EQ II. They have been cranking out quality expansion after quality expansion while Blizzard basically has given its fan base a really bad copy of Planes of Power, and forced Raid or die on a demographic that has no interest in Raiding.
Yes you can cling to the mistakes of Lucasarts, and Brad McQuaids EQ 1 development team.(We can all see now after the Sigil fiasco that the problems with EQ 1 wasn’t so much SOE they were more the vision of McQuaids) But the current EQ II team has taken a broken unfun product and has refined it until it is actually one of the few MMOs worth the subscription price.
Diametrically Blizzard took a fun game and turned it into a tedious unfun grindfest...Tigole and the gang seem to be bound and determined to make WoW that game they cried and bitched about for so many years...EQ.. Yes Blizzard may dominate the world market, but they are losing there North American base, If you take to ten U.S. WoW players Nine of them are either on there last month or waiting for <Insert next MMMO here>.
Hahahahaha, the only crowd dumber than WoW players are the ex-WoW players... hahahaha
Over generalizing much are we?
No, not realy. If you read the posts you can see that WoW players are well aware of shortcomings of WoW and they know why they are playing and why they're having fun. These new fresh baked WoW burnouts are the ones I find rediciluos. I mean, they don't even know how stupid it sounds when someone writes something like "I've been playing this game from beta and I know what I'm talking about, it sucks, it's a grind, it's boring, it's shallow" Man, if it took you 3 years to find out you don't like something while playing it hours and hours every day.... must I say more?
You don't get it. You stated that the only crowd dumber than WoW players are the ex-wow players. There are many ex-WoW players and by your definition as quoted above, they're all dumb, or at least dumber than WoW players, relatively speaking.
What about the ex-WoW player who tried the game for a month, decided it wasn't his cup of tea and then left? Is he dumb as well? There are many reasons for leaving WoW. Burnout is one of them, but not the only one. Far from.
Judging from your subsequent reply, that wasn't really what you meant to say, nor did I take it as such. What you should have said, was "the only crowd dumber than WoW players are the burned out ex-WoW players". That's all I meant by "over generalizing" and that's why I put in a little smiley at the end
You're right though and it's kinda sad that so many burned out players don't realize that and just goes on and on about how bad the game is.
Oh well...
Such is the life of MMOs...
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Yes Blizzard may dominate the world market, but they are losing there North American base, If you take to ten U.S. WoW players Nine of them are either on there last month or waiting for <Insert next MMMO here>.
Not trying to defend Blizzard or calling you a liar, but where does that nine in ten figure come from? It just seems too extreme to make sense that so many people are on the verge of quitting.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I'm most likely not gonna bother with this expansion. I mean seriously... New gear comes out way too quick as it is. We replace gear like nothing after busting our ass for it. If anyone does decide to take a break they are so far behind, it's tough to find people to play with. I also don't want to deal with these rep grinds anymore. Who really wants 10 more reps to grind? Also, there isn't enough PvP content to keep me playing.
I've been playing the 3 battlegrounds since they came out. They only added 1 new one so far, and only plan on adding 1 more for this expansion. Arena is fun but there are only 3 maps. Arena also forces you to create teams with the perfect class setup. This causes friends to stop playing together so they can join/make the best team (unless all of your friends are the right class). We wanted world pvp, and what did they give us? A bunch of shitty outdoor BGs. Who wants to play outdoors AB for a shitty buff (yes the outland rewards better, but in WoW decent rewards dont make people play. people dont pvp for fun, strictly rewards... sad i know)? What was the point of removing DKs? When we asked for world pvp we wanted to have objectives involving major cities (IF, Org, etc) that had some affect on the world. Now they have this "PvP Zone" that will affect the world (or northrend i forget). IMO this zone will just be decent. The only way I see many people playing is if it has rewards.
This expansion could have been about fun (OMG!), instead of the same bullshit. WoW is all about gear. This is IMO WoW's major fault. How many people actually do things for fun vs doing things for gear/power? Instead of adding new levels and adding more tiers and shit, they could've been working on how to make this game more fun. Don't get me wrong. Everything is fun the first few times... but let's be honest. Did you really enjoy running that instance 100 times to get that item? Anyway, yeah... I don't like the direction WoW has been going for a while now. I canceled my account yesterday. I might come back, but I highly doubt it. I think MMO makers need to realize that most people want to have fun, not just level up and get gear. I will say it again (as in some other posts lol), IT'S TWO THOUSAND FUCKING SEVEN! It's time to move passed the same shit that's been going down for years. I can understand that we don't have flying cars yet... but I can't understand why MMOs haven't evolved much. COME ON!
Yes Blizzard may dominate the world market, but they are losing there North American base, If you take to ten U.S. WoW players Nine of them are either on there last month or waiting for <Insert next MMMO here>.
Not trying to defend Blizzard or calling you a liar, but where does that nine in ten figure come from? It just seems too extreme to make sense that so many people are on the verge of quitting.
I'm with Faelan on this one - not claiming one thing or the other myself, but when I see numbers posted (especially doom-sayer ones) for any game I get sceptical. Cough up some sources or this is simply BS.
Comments
Im a bit upset about this statement... seen any murlocs in BC?
One of the positive thinks on WOW and Blizzard is that they create some own kind of Monsters... In the old WOW, in BC and surely there will be new kind of Enemys in LICH KING!
I found it always some more creative than just a "Tolkien Copy"-Design.
ROLF...
Most of the posters sound like those beaten wives...you keep complaining and nagging but in the end you always find your way home
You`ve completed all the stages of fucked up marriage...Mystification/adaptation/disillusion/seperation
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
What else is new, from copying Warhammer, Runescape is next. And oh i forgot something, the in-game voice chat, they copied DDO. for Pete's sake.
I'm hoping the next thing Blizzard will copy is Vanguard, no make it DnL.
The whole Warcraft universe is a rip off of Warhammer man
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Some of these complaints are deserved.. however some are just.. pathetic.. to the fool who said Blizzard ripped off DDO by implementing VOIP, think before you make such a ridiculous statement. So DDO developed that sort of technology did it? No. You could say they stole off games like Battlefield 2 or Counter Strike Source? Did they? No.
It's just one of the various technical utilities that have become available, and because Blizzard does something smart and implements it, they are ripping off another company?
Yea. Right.
I would buy this expansion if they didn't raise the level cap. The grinding is one of the only things that keep people going in this game, by adding more levels and pathetically long quest chains to unlock new content Blizzard is achieving their goal. Keeping people playing. It isn't Blizzard's fault that you had to run Kara a gazillion times to get that one piece of gear, it is simply your own. You decided you wanted it and decided you would stop at nothing to get it, not Blizzard.
However that said, the way the game is structured almost forces you to have the best gear to compete with others, which is rediculously time consuming in itself. When I play a game I do it for fun, not to slave or work away for something that will not and will never benefit me off the monitor.
The game still has a lot of potential, Blizzard just seems to refuse to tap into that, adding more levels is forcing players to go through a process many find repetitive as hell. I would love to see a more solid way to level up via PvP in the game, and why not some quests to earn bonus talent points? Introduce some more world campaigns in which players can participate for gear?
Also, many MMO's release massive upgrades to their game worlds every few months, the most Blizzard does is add a new instance that a small percentage of subscribers will see, we see balance issues crop up all the time, and yet it is slowly becoming worse in this aspect.
World of Warcraft was a great game and to many still is, but I just feel in the 3 years I have played the game Blizzard has slowly been nailing it's coffin shut with a lack of community communication and continued desire to stick to narrow minded content that neither benefits themselves or the community.
EDIT: I saw a post a while ago talking about risk, reward, and so on somewhere on these boards, and it said WoW only implements one of these, which is reward. When you offer players only one such thing to play for, in Warcraft's choice, reward, many people have little incentive to play for nothing other than that, and there is a lack of fun factor (although, many enjoy that kind of competition..) Anyone remember the old days of Alterac Valley? Those epic battles that went on for hours? I lived to play those kind of battles, absolutely loved them. Now, I'm lucky to even see the Hippogriffs start flying again.
The above is my opinion. Not yours. Mmmmk?
/end rant.
seriously? What people are talking about is the INTEGRATED voice chat, which was done by turbine for DDO first. Honestly though, I'd rather use vent than integrated voice chat.
And old days of alterac valley? bleh. The only fun I had in WoW pvp was open world pvp at tauren mills before the bg's ruined it.(and the crappy honor system)
That was good old days indeed(Zenedar) when PvP really meant something.I remember once we battled for almost 9 hours,I played for 3 hours then took some rest for 4 hours and when I logged in the next day the battle was still on. Tired players were leaving and fresh one joined in on both side.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
seriously? What people are talking about is the INTEGRATED voice chat, which was done by turbine for DDO first. Honestly though, I'd rather use vent than integrated voice chat.
And old days of alterac valley? bleh. The only fun I had in WoW pvp was open world pvp at tauren mills before the bg's ruined it.(and the crappy honor system)
Integrated voice chat.. yea.. that is still VOIP (Voice Over IP). Intergrated voice chat is seen in the games I mentioned as well. And no, it was not done first by Turbine in DDO. CSS, BF2 are the two examples I have already given and they came out 2 years before DDO. It makes no difference at all, if anything, it is for the better.
If you'd rather use Vent, good for you, that's your preference, this is Blizzards attempt at making things more compatible and integrated with their game.
Open world PvP was a blast too, and AV was the closest thing we ever had to a proper quest based PvP scenario, and back then it did a pretty good job, but as said. My opinion, and I know for a fact many others share it, just like many share yours.
Overall the Battlegrounds were a disaster with the new honour system, but hell, the damage has been done eh?
How is this an opinion article? It's an "these are the announced features" article. I saw very little opinion.
Blizzard has really jumped the shark on this one...... Meanwhile SOE continues to refine Everquest 2, and the population continues to grow. Will it ever have 9 million? Nope but as we can see quantity doesn’t mean quality.
Sigh.
Too many people, unexperienced people keep complaining about World of Warcraft being some cheap poor quality game. First of all i'll just say this in reply to martin's post, Blizzard are well known for polishing off their games and that's what makes them the best quality. If you wish to sit here and say SOE can do better then may I direct your attention to SWG and EQ1. Expansion after expansion, aswell as revamps that changed the whole game. That's not polishing is it ? no, it's not.
To the actual topic at hand, I think new expansions are always great as long as the current game is good enough for players to enjoy (no bugs, no exploits, etc). The only reason people are complaining is because they went and completed all the content as fast as they could, rather then enjoying it and thanking blizzard for a wonderful game they've made and kept updated until now.
Let's hope they attempt to have more focus on activties that don't get you items, things that people do for FUN without the reward. This could happen in PvP and maybe for PvE if their designers are smart and know how things work (which I think most are). Implementing siege was a good and bad idea. Yes, it is new content that will keep the PvPers happy but if it isn't designed correctly (ie, outdoors or indoors, timers on using them, overpowered.) they could be digging a hole for PvP.
My 2cents, not urs.
btw at the comment "Blizzard announces World of Warcraft expansion. Chinese gold farmers rejoice. (Let's face it higher levels mean more gold, Burning Crusade proved that)." . We all know quantity doesn't mean everything, it's the demand and time spent getting it which counts. There's no need to be rude.. anywhere.
I immediately stopped playing WoW and cancelled the subscription upon hearing about this expansion. I wasn't impressed at all by The Burning Crusade, and the changes it had brought to all the classes. I played on the Europe servers, and felt the increased level cap had hurt PVP, as it seperated players between those who owned the expansion, and those who did not. This expansion with it's level cap of 80 is a bad idea.
Dark Age of Camelot had a much better approach for bringing new content to high level characters, instead of increasing the level cap and thus seperating players in the PVP field, it introduced champion levels, those who were level 50 and had no champion levels, and those who were level 50 and were champion level 10 could still face one another in RVR. Champion levels did not unbalance the game in anyway, as the abilities gained from each champion level were not as potent as the abilties from the classes.
at least he is honest. they need more articles like that.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Over generalizing much are we?
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I do agree with the persont hat said that AV was better before it was nerfed to death. I call that AV Classic (in homage to the New Coke fiasco back in the 80s). I think that Blizzard has spent too much time listening to players and making bad changes. The game was so much better when MC was the only raid, TM and the Crossroads were the sights of huge PvP battles, and there weren't a hundred different factions to grind rep for.
I like the increase of the level cap and that will keep me playing, unless WAR or AOC provide me with more fun for a long period of time.
Over generalizing much are we?
No, not realy. If you read the posts you can see that WoW players are well aware of shortcomings of WoW and they know why they are playing and why they're having fun. These new fresh baked WoW burnouts are the ones I find rediciluos. I mean, they don't even know how stupid it sounds when someone writes something like "I've been playing this game from beta and I know what I'm talking about, it sucks, it's a grind, it's boring, it's shallow" Man, if it took you 3 years to find out you don't like something while playing it hours and hours every day.... must I say more?
Actually, there are alternatives to raising levels, check out DAOC or EVE for examples. How about instead of raising levels, they implement a system to let players cross train some skills in other areas (stupid class based games) or add new skills that can be only achieved from doing PVP, or completing certain pve content? (ala DAOC?)As to equipment, there are ways to add new equipment that doesn't completely invalidate everything that came before it.... sure DAOC has lots of new gear, yet...some folks are still using player crafted items and TOA weapons and such that were created over 3 years ago. Every expansion doesn't have to be in huge increments..... first release...swords have +5 bonuses, next expansion, bump them up to max of +6.
Out of the box thinking keeps games more creative and fun IMO, which is one reason why I no longer play WOW, since those two elements are sorely missing from my perspective.
The expansion will be more of the same. And why not? Look how many people bought TBC.... which was really more of the same than the new exp will be. Blizzard would be crazy to vary from the formula that has brought so much success thus far.
One day, it will come back to haunt them, and then once people start moving on they'll be more receptive to experimenting with the game model, but for now, don't look for a lot of variety.
People who continue to play WOW all the while claiming to hate this aspect of it, or because they can't find a better game need to realize they are the problem...as long as Blizz gets your sub fee....they don't need to cater to your whims.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sigh.
Too many people, unexperienced people keep complaining about World of Warcraft being some cheap poor quality game. First of all i'll just say this in reply to martin's post, Blizzard are well known for polishing off their games and that's what makes them the best quality. If you wish to sit here and say SOE can do better then may I direct your attention to SWG and EQ1. Expansion after expansion, aswell as revamps that changed the whole game. That's not polishing is it ? no, it's not.
Sigh.
Another disingenuous response designed to negate an opinion without directly addressing it. The person you responded to specifically said "SOE continues to refine Everquest 2". Everquest 2. Not SWG and EQ1. I don't think anyone refutes that they screwed the pooch with SWG and I suppose EQ1 is subjective, as there's still plenty of people playing it. However, the poster didn't mentione either of those. They specifically mentioned EQ2, which has, by various accounts (ie. player, website and magazines), continued to improve and become more "refined" over time. So if you have a gripe with their comment, at least make sure you have a gripe with it for what they do say, not for what they don't. And before you say it, no, I am not a "SOE fanboy". I've played EQ2 and it doesn't keep my interest, however I acknowledge that the game is enjoying a increase in overall quality and popularity over time, especially compared to its earlier months.
And what's with the "unexperienced" [sic] comment? How do you know the poster's "experience" level with MMOs? Are you incapable of disagreeing without using dismissive comments like that to try and diminish someone else's point-of-view to make yours seem more "right"?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
To me this sounds like a great expansion.
I am a hardcore mmorpg player, but took many breaks from WoW.
What this expeansion will do is even the playing feeld again, between the hardcore and the casual players.
Me like that.
Furthermore, I liked TBC alot, especially to road from 60 to 70 and the new Open World PvP objectives.
Also in the new expansion there will be siege engines and destructible world pvp objectives, I mean yummy, this means that WAR will have to deliver a true RvR game or people will just stick with WoW.
Greetingz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I, for one, am looking forward to it.
And I'll make sure I spell "since" and "ridiculous" correctly. Yay me.
Actually SOE is doing better with EQ II. They have been cranking out quality expansion after quality expansion while Blizzard basically has given its fan base a really bad copy of Planes of Power, and forced Raid or die on a demographic that has no interest in Raiding.
Yes you can cling to the mistakes of Lucasarts, and Brad McQuaids EQ 1 development team.(We can all see now after the Sigil fiasco that the problems with EQ 1 wasn’t so much SOE they were more the vision of McQuaids) But the current EQ II team has taken a broken unfun product and has refined it until it is actually one of the few MMOs worth the subscription price.
Diametrically Blizzard took a fun game and turned it into a tedious unfun grindfest...Tigole and the gang seem to be bound and determined to make WoW that game they cried and bitched about for so many years...EQ.. Yes Blizzard may dominate the world market, but they are losing there North American base, If you take to ten U.S. WoW players Nine of them are either on there last month or waiting for <Insert next MMMO here>.
Over generalizing much are we?
No, not realy. If you read the posts you can see that WoW players are well aware of shortcomings of WoW and they know why they are playing and why they're having fun. These new fresh baked WoW burnouts are the ones I find rediciluos. I mean, they don't even know how stupid it sounds when someone writes something like "I've been playing this game from beta and I know what I'm talking about, it sucks, it's a grind, it's boring, it's shallow" Man, if it took you 3 years to find out you don't like something while playing it hours and hours every day.... must I say more?
You don't get it. You stated that the only crowd dumber than WoW players are the ex-wow players. There are many ex-WoW players and by your definition as quoted above, they're all dumb, or at least dumber than WoW players, relatively speaking.
What about the ex-WoW player who tried the game for a month, decided it wasn't his cup of tea and then left? Is he dumb as well? There are many reasons for leaving WoW. Burnout is one of them, but not the only one. Far from.
Judging from your subsequent reply, that wasn't really what you meant to say, nor did I take it as such. What you should have said, was "the only crowd dumber than WoW players are the burned out ex-WoW players". That's all I meant by "over generalizing" and that's why I put in a little smiley at the end
You're right though and it's kinda sad that so many burned out players don't realize that and just goes on and on about how bad the game is.
Oh well...
Such is the life of MMOs...
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Not trying to defend Blizzard or calling you a liar, but where does that nine in ten figure come from? It just seems too extreme to make sense that so many people are on the verge of quitting.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I'm most likely not gonna bother with this expansion. I mean seriously... New gear comes out way too quick as it is. We replace gear like nothing after busting our ass for it. If anyone does decide to take a break they are so far behind, it's tough to find people to play with. I also don't want to deal with these rep grinds anymore. Who really wants 10 more reps to grind? Also, there isn't enough PvP content to keep me playing.
I've been playing the 3 battlegrounds since they came out. They only added 1 new one so far, and only plan on adding 1 more for this expansion. Arena is fun but there are only 3 maps. Arena also forces you to create teams with the perfect class setup. This causes friends to stop playing together so they can join/make the best team (unless all of your friends are the right class). We wanted world pvp, and what did they give us? A bunch of shitty outdoor BGs. Who wants to play outdoors AB for a shitty buff (yes the outland rewards better, but in WoW decent rewards dont make people play. people dont pvp for fun, strictly rewards... sad i know)? What was the point of removing DKs? When we asked for world pvp we wanted to have objectives involving major cities (IF, Org, etc) that had some affect on the world. Now they have this "PvP Zone" that will affect the world (or northrend i forget). IMO this zone will just be decent. The only way I see many people playing is if it has rewards.
This expansion could have been about fun (OMG!), instead of the same bullshit. WoW is all about gear. This is IMO WoW's major fault. How many people actually do things for fun vs doing things for gear/power? Instead of adding new levels and adding more tiers and shit, they could've been working on how to make this game more fun. Don't get me wrong. Everything is fun the first few times... but let's be honest. Did you really enjoy running that instance 100 times to get that item? Anyway, yeah... I don't like the direction WoW has been going for a while now. I canceled my account yesterday. I might come back, but I highly doubt it. I think MMO makers need to realize that most people want to have fun, not just level up and get gear. I will say it again (as in some other posts lol), IT'S TWO THOUSAND FUCKING SEVEN! It's time to move passed the same shit that's been going down for years. I can understand that we don't have flying cars yet... but I can't understand why MMOs haven't evolved much. COME ON!
Not trying to defend Blizzard or calling you a liar, but where does that nine in ten figure come from? It just seems too extreme to make sense that so many people are on the verge of quitting.
I'm with Faelan on this one - not claiming one thing or the other myself, but when I see numbers posted (especially doom-sayer ones) for any game I get sceptical. Cough up some sources or this is simply BS.